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Transcript

Rejection is the Goal! · The Uplifters

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[music]
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SPEAKER_03: Hey, Uplifters, you know how much I love experimenting and trying new things.
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1:13
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1:20
SPEAKER_03: Welcome to The Uplifters podcast where every week I talk to
1:22
SPEAKER_03: a midlife woman who's doing big, brave things in the world.
1:26
SPEAKER_03: I'm your host,
1:27
SPEAKER_03: Aransas Savas,
1:27
SPEAKER_03: and I've spent the last 20 years at the intersection of behavior change research
1:31
SPEAKER_03: and coaching.
1:32
SPEAKER_03: Today I am talking to Jess Kaplan.
1:36
SPEAKER_03: So we're going to do this episode a little bit differently though.
1:39
SPEAKER_03: I'm going to introduce you to Jess Kaplan.
1:41
SPEAKER_03: Jess is gonna introduce me to you.
1:43
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:45
SPEAKER_03: And because Jess is a podcast host in her own right and has this super cool concept
1:51
SPEAKER_03: for a show where she talks to people about rejection,
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SPEAKER_03: which I feel like every one of us on The Uplifters should probably be thinking about
1:59
SPEAKER_02: and talking about more.
2:00
SPEAKER_03: We felt like maybe this would be a nice way to sort of meet and greet each other,
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SPEAKER_03: reintroduce ourselves to the folks we already know on our own podcast,
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SPEAKER_03: but also hopefully help you find a new podcast that fills you up with inspiration
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SPEAKER_03: and ideas and good stuff.
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SPEAKER_02: Amazing.
2:17
SPEAKER_03: So I'm just going to introduce Jess,
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SPEAKER_03: then maybe she's going to introduce me and then we're going to see what happens
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SPEAKER_03: because we're going chaos theory on this one.
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SPEAKER_03: Let's do it.
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SPEAKER_03: So Jess is an actor, a writer, a podcaster.
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SPEAKER_03: Her podcast is called Nopes and Dreams about creativity and rejection.
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SPEAKER_03: And clearly I only picked up on the rejection part of it because let's be honest,
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SPEAKER_03: that's the kind of thing I want to talk about.
2:38
SPEAKER_03: I also like creativity.
2:39
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
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SPEAKER_03: You're creative.
2:41
SPEAKER_03: I'm creative.
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SPEAKER_03: You host a podcast.
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SPEAKER_03: My kids asked me last night, they were like, what are your top five skills?
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SPEAKER_03: And creativity was one of them.
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SPEAKER_03: I love that your kids ask that.
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SPEAKER_03: My kids ask the best questions.
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SPEAKER_03: They are my best teachers.
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SPEAKER_03: So Jess has a BFA in acting from Stella Adler at NYU's Tisch School,
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SPEAKER_03: which, you know, if you're not in that world is a big deal.
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SPEAKER_03: I tried to get into Tisch for grad school.
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SPEAKER_03: They did not take me, but Ohio University was like, we'll pay you to come to our grad school.
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SPEAKER_03: It was great, actually.
3:11
SPEAKER_02: What were you trying to apply for?
3:13
SPEAKER_02: For Tish for acting.
3:14
SPEAKER_02: I did for grad school.
3:16
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_03: I have a bachelor's in directing and scene design.
3:19
SPEAKER_03: Now we have so much to talk about.
3:21
SPEAKER_03: And a master's in acting.
3:22
SPEAKER_02: Oh my God.
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SPEAKER_02: So we have so much overlap.
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SPEAKER_02: Okay.
3:25
SPEAKER_02: This was not in your bio.
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SPEAKER_02: So I couldn't find this about you.
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SPEAKER_02: It's like lifetimes ago.
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SPEAKER_03: And you know, that's the thing about midlife, right?
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SPEAKER_03: That I was writing for my book yesterday that For so many of us,
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SPEAKER_03: midlife is this reintegration point where all those past lives start to be revisited
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SPEAKER_03: and mined for joy and energy and purpose.
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SPEAKER_03: And so I've been doing...
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SPEAKER_03: Readings lately and revisiting that actor part of myself with like zero attachment
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SPEAKER_03: to any identity or desire, just total play.
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SPEAKER_03: And it has been so much freaking fun.
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SPEAKER_03: My kids were like, oh, are you going to start auditioning?
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SPEAKER_03: I was like, nah, that doesn't sound fun.
4:07
SPEAKER_03: My God.
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SPEAKER_03: Doing readings where nobody cares that.
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SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
4:11
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
4:12
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_03: And you organize it or someone
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SPEAKER_02: else does and you ask to
4:15
SPEAKER_03: be in it?
4:16
SPEAKER_03: No, people just have invited and I'm like, oh, that's fun.
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SPEAKER_03: So yes, many lives.
4:22
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
4:22
SPEAKER_03: Sorry.
4:22
SPEAKER_03: Go keep going.
4:24
SPEAKER_03: So Jess was also a student in improv at Second City, at UCB, and The Pit.
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SPEAKER_03: Again, all super big deals if you're not in that world.
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SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
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SPEAKER_03: They are.
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SPEAKER_03: I mean, like those are the places to be.
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SPEAKER_03: No one seems to care but you.
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SPEAKER_03: So thank you.
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SPEAKER_03: I'm impressed, Jess.
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SPEAKER_03: You're my one fan.
4:44
SPEAKER_03: It is funny though.
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SPEAKER_03: I found my old headshot the other day.
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SPEAKER_03: From like 25 years ago.
4:50
SPEAKER_03: Oh my God.
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SPEAKER_03: And what we used to do back in the good old days.
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SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
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SPEAKER_02: Was it black
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SPEAKER_03: and white?
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SPEAKER_03: It was black and white.
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SPEAKER_03: Composite?
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SPEAKER_03: I had a pixie haircut.
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SPEAKER_03: It was so cute.
5:00
SPEAKER_03: And you would postcard the agents.
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SPEAKER_03: Yes.
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SPEAKER_03: And so I was sending out my Thanksgiving postcards and I had on the back of it all
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SPEAKER_03: the work I was doing.
5:12
SPEAKER_03: And I was mad impressed with myself.
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SPEAKER_03: Because I look back on that time 25 years ago and I kind of sounded like you,
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SPEAKER_03: I think, where I was like, who was interested?
5:23
SPEAKER_03: Nobody.
5:23
SPEAKER_03: Like, nothing's happening.
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SPEAKER_03: And I talk about that time all the time as like my era as a failed actor.
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SPEAKER_03: I love that.
5:32
SPEAKER_03: I was like, nobody was booking me.
5:33
SPEAKER_03: I wasn't doing anything.
5:35
SPEAKER_03: I looked at it.
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SPEAKER_03: My daughter goes, mom, you were booked and busy.
5:39
SPEAKER_03: I had like 15 projects going on.
5:42
SPEAKER_03: One for the BBC.
5:43
SPEAKER_03: I'm like, I did something for the BBC.
5:45
SPEAKER_03: I don't remember that.
5:46
SPEAKER_03: Like I had zero recollection.
5:49
SPEAKER_02: What was your type?
5:50
SPEAKER_02: Like what were you trying to go?
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SPEAKER_02: Did you want to be an ingenue?
5:53
SPEAKER_03: No, I was never an arch now.
5:56
SPEAKER_03: Character actress?
5:57
SPEAKER_03: It was character actress, mostly theater, all straight theater.
6:00
SPEAKER_03: You know,
6:01
SPEAKER_03: I did like the occasional musical because they would let me like speak sing
6:04
SPEAKER_03: because I have a horrible singing voice and I
6:07
SPEAKER_03: have no desire to keep a beat
6:10
SPEAKER_03: when it comes to dance.
6:11
SPEAKER_03: I just want to move to my own rhythm.
6:13
SPEAKER_03: Freedom is a core virtue.
6:15
SPEAKER_03: And yeah, I did a fair amount of like, Like reality TV stuff, before it was reality TV.
6:24
SPEAKER_03: Back when it was like talk show stuff, reenactments.
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SPEAKER_03: And so that's how I was paying my bills was like reactments.
6:31
SPEAKER_03: And I had this deal with like the Ablounger company where I did all their promos.
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SPEAKER_03: I would get recognized a lot.
6:38
SPEAKER_03: What was the Ablounger?
6:40
SPEAKER_03: What is that?
6:40
SPEAKER_03: The Ablounger.
6:42
SPEAKER_03: Oh, ab lounger.
6:44
SPEAKER_03: Ab lounger.
6:44
SPEAKER_03: So I would lie on their machine and do sit-ups.
6:49
SPEAKER_03: And then like once I was working in corporate,
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SPEAKER_03: my CEO was like,
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SPEAKER_03: Oh my God, I was on a business trip in Japan and you were up at the bar TV.
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SPEAKER_03: Or I'd be like out in an event and I'd look up on the TV and there I would be.
7:01
SPEAKER_03: It was all very funny.
7:01
SPEAKER_03: It's like infomercials, right?
7:02
SPEAKER_03: That was infomercials.
7:03
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
7:03
SPEAKER_03: Oh my God, that's awesome.
7:05
SPEAKER_03: So it was like infomercials and reenactments on Maury Povich and shit.
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SPEAKER_03: That was how I paid my bills.
7:10
SPEAKER_03: And when I did theater, it was mostly like regional and off of Broadway and stuff.
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SPEAKER_03: But again, I felt like I had no success.
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SPEAKER_03: But then this postcard was like a total challenge to my reality.
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SPEAKER_03: So maybe that's part of our conversation on rejection.
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SPEAKER_03: Will you post it or send it to me?
7:29
SPEAKER_03: Yes, I'm totally gonna give it to you.
7:31
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
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SPEAKER_03: But I feel like rejection is, it's like relative
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SPEAKER_02: to our expectations.
7:39
SPEAKER_02: That's interesting.
7:40
SPEAKER_02: I have not heard that perspective.
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SPEAKER_02: Tell me more.
7:43
SPEAKER_02: Well,
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SPEAKER_02: I felt like I
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SPEAKER_03: was getting rejected all the time because I wasn't getting as much
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SPEAKER_03: as I thought I should or I thought I would.
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SPEAKER_03: Or in the way that I would,
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SPEAKER_03: or even maybe like the percentage of asks versus yeses was different
8:01
SPEAKER_03: than my expectation.
8:02
SPEAKER_03: But when I look back without any memory of how many asks I was making
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SPEAKER_03: or how many no's I was getting relative to it and just seeing like what I was doing
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SPEAKER_03: at that one moment in time, I'm like, damn girl.
8:16
SPEAKER_03: And maybe it was 80 asks to get me to those eight yeses on that card.
8:21
SPEAKER_03: And so that felt hard.
8:22
SPEAKER_03: But looking back at it, all I see is the eight yeses.
8:24
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, I'm so proud of you, little Aransas.
8:27
SPEAKER_03: You had some major moxie to get all that work.
8:30
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
8:31
SPEAKER_02: So why do you say you said I'm a failed actress?
8:34
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
8:34
SPEAKER_02: That's the memory of it.
8:36
SPEAKER_02: I think because I just... Well, why'd you stop?
8:38
SPEAKER_03: Because I didn't love it.
8:40
SPEAKER_03: I didn't like the job of it.
8:41
SPEAKER_03: When I talk about it,
8:42
SPEAKER_03: I usually talk about it and it's probably disrespectful to our population,
8:46
SPEAKER_03: but I felt like a prostitute.
8:49
SPEAKER_02: Oh, well.
8:50
SPEAKER_02: I felt like I was chopping my body around.
8:52
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
8:53
SPEAKER_03: As a woman, especially.
8:55
SPEAKER_03: And asking people to like me and to want me and my own power,
9:03
SPEAKER_03: my own identity felt super irrelevant and And I didn't like that.
9:09
SPEAKER_03: And so I was like, maybe there's another way.
9:11
SPEAKER_03: And then I got a good paying corporate job.
9:14
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
9:15
SPEAKER_03: And they really liked me and wanted a lot of me.
9:17
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
9:18
SPEAKER_03: And they kept promoting me.
9:20
SPEAKER_03: And so with each promotion, it was like, oh yeah, I guess I'm not going to do those acting gigs.
9:27
SPEAKER_03: And then it was zero.
9:28
SPEAKER_03: What was the corporate job that you got?
9:31
SPEAKER_03: So I worked for Weight Watchers.
9:33
SPEAKER_03: This is hilarious.
9:33
SPEAKER_03: I'm trying to read your bio and just telling you all about myself.
9:36
SPEAKER_03: No, it's okay.
9:37
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
9:39
SPEAKER_03: This is our special episode.
9:41
SPEAKER_02: This is a better way than just reading the bio because every time I read the bio,
9:44
SPEAKER_02: I feel like a moron.
9:45
SPEAKER_03: I'm like, so-and-so is this.
9:48
SPEAKER_03: It's just...
9:48
SPEAKER_03: It is kind of more interesting, right?
9:49
SPEAKER_03: We could just like organically talk about it.
9:51
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
9:52
SPEAKER_02: Banter it back.
9:53
SPEAKER_03: So yeah,
9:54
SPEAKER_03: I was a chubby girl who wanted to lose weight and I learned
10:00
SPEAKER_03: about this thing called Weight Watchers,
10:02
SPEAKER_03: which is so funny that there was a time I didn't know what that was.
10:06
SPEAKER_03: And I went to join as a member, lost a bunch of weight, felt amazing.
10:13
SPEAKER_03: And this woman was weighing me, like did weigh-ins where you would check in with a person.
10:19
SPEAKER_03: And she was like, you should work here.
10:21
SPEAKER_03: And I was like, oh, that actually sounds like a pretty interesting side hustle.
10:25
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
10:25
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
10:26
SPEAKER_03: And I didn't realize like you didn't have to be a leader and like really be all in.
10:31
SPEAKER_03: You could just like be the person who casually weighs people in part time.
10:34
SPEAKER_03: And it felt like a good compliment to my work as an actor.
10:39
SPEAKER_03: Right.
10:40
SPEAKER_03: And so I started doing that.
10:41
SPEAKER_03: And then they're like, you really need to be a leader.
10:43
SPEAKER_03: And I was like, okay.
10:45
SPEAKER_03: So I went and while I was at leader training,
10:47
SPEAKER_03: this woman was like,
10:48
SPEAKER_03: I have a job to lead training For the entire East Coast region.
10:53
SPEAKER_03: And I think you should be the one to do it.
10:54
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, but I have no credentials.
10:56
SPEAKER_03: She's like, but you're perfect for it.
10:58
SPEAKER_03: And I was like, oh, everything they're teaching is everything I know how to do.
11:03
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
11:04
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
11:04
SPEAKER_03: And so, because I was like going through the training,
11:07
SPEAKER_03: I was like, why are you teaching me all the things that like I do naturally?
11:10
SPEAKER_03: And so I said yes to that and still kind of casually worked as an actor.
11:15
SPEAKER_03: And then they were like, You're a real standout on our training team.
11:19
SPEAKER_03: Do you want to come and take this role nationally?
11:23
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
11:23
SPEAKER_03: And then they were like, oh, do you want to come do this role globally?
11:26
SPEAKER_03: And so it just sort of went from there.
11:27
SPEAKER_03: And I was there for 18 years.
11:29
SPEAKER_03: And after 18 years,
11:30
SPEAKER_03: I was like,
11:31
SPEAKER_03: somewhere in the middle of it, I was like, oh my gosh, I'm not being challenged.
11:34
SPEAKER_03: I'm bored.
11:34
SPEAKER_03: I'm tired.
11:34
SPEAKER_03: I'm like...
11:36
SPEAKER_03: I feel like I'm in Groundhog Day and I kept thinking about leaving.
11:38
SPEAKER_03: But by then I was so entrenched that I had no idea what life was like outside
11:43
SPEAKER_03: of this organization that I felt like had raised me
11:46
SPEAKER_03: and started getting more training and certifications and neuroscience and coaching
11:53
SPEAKER_03: and behavior change and was doing a bunch of work developing coaching platforms for
11:58
SPEAKER_03: the brand and Working on cool stuff with Oprah, it's not like it was all drudgery.
12:04
SPEAKER_03: It was super interesting, but I was ready to graduate.
12:08
SPEAKER_03: And I say this,
12:08
SPEAKER_03: of course,
12:09
SPEAKER_03: with an 18-year-old,
12:10
SPEAKER_03: almost 18-year-old who is about to graduate and move into the world.
12:16
SPEAKER_03: And I was so afraid that I set a deadline for myself to quit on March 1st and chickened out.
12:27
SPEAKER_03: And then March 3rd, I got laid off.
12:29
SPEAKER_03: And it was like the best thing that ever happened to me because I got freedom and a severance.
12:35
SPEAKER_03: Ooh, even better.
12:36
SPEAKER_03: It was great.
12:38
SPEAKER_03: And yeah.
12:38
SPEAKER_03: And then everything in my life that would have been in
12:42
SPEAKER_03: the bio you would have read started at that point.
12:45
SPEAKER_02: Well, this is good.
12:46
SPEAKER_02: I don't even need to do a bio.
12:47
SPEAKER_02: Wait.
12:48
SPEAKER_02: So you said you didn't love acting or at a certain point,
12:51
SPEAKER_02: but you went into acting loving it, I assume.
12:54
SPEAKER_03: I loved...
12:58
SPEAKER_03: And I loved the story.
13:00
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
13:01
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
13:02
SPEAKER_03: And I didn't even not like auditioning really.
13:04
SPEAKER_03: Like it was fun to sort of prep and really I just wanted to be able to talk and
13:13
SPEAKER_03: to like spend time in words every day.
13:19
SPEAKER_03: So it's, yeah, now like that's a good segue into where it all landed is that I now...
13:24
SPEAKER_03: A writer and a podcaster and a coach.
13:27
SPEAKER_02: Maybe you needed to, as you said, the prostitute aspect is like you didn't want other...
13:33
SPEAKER_03: It's okay.
13:33
SPEAKER_03: You didn't want other
13:34
SPEAKER_02: people to tell you what you were right for.
13:37
SPEAKER_02: You wanted to do your own work.
13:39
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
13:40
SPEAKER_02: But with the Weight Watchers, with weight, was that a factor in acting as well?
13:44
SPEAKER_02: Did you feel like that was something that... Yeah.
13:47
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I... Because everyone cares about what you look like, your hair, your...
13:52
SPEAKER_02: That would be hard.
13:53
SPEAKER_02: It's hard for everyone.
13:55
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
13:55
SPEAKER_03: I didn't feel like I wasn't getting work because of my weight.
13:59
SPEAKER_03: Because the kind of actor I was, it wasn't...
14:01
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
14:02
SPEAKER_03: I didn't feel like I was limited by it.
14:04
SPEAKER_03: I just didn't feel great.
14:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
14:06
SPEAKER_03: And Weight Watchers for me really was just this massive paradigm shift in terms
14:12
SPEAKER_03: of how I thought about food and my own sense of agency, again, freedom, over...
14:21
SPEAKER_03: What my body was like, which is why midlife is such a mindfuck.
14:24
SPEAKER_02: What is midlife to you?
14:25
SPEAKER_02: Can I ask what age is midlife?
14:27
SPEAKER_03: I say like most people, I think kind of feel like 40 to 65.
14:31
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
14:32
SPEAKER_03: It's a big range.
14:34
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
14:34
SPEAKER_03: It's a big range.
14:35
SPEAKER_02: I was just curious to know, I was like, am I in midlife?
14:38
SPEAKER_03: You're close.
14:38
SPEAKER_03: You're close, right?
14:39
SPEAKER_03: And so, yeah, I think it's kind of arbitrary.
14:43
SPEAKER_03: It's a self-identification.
14:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
14:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
14:45
SPEAKER_03: You bring up this idea of other people deciding.
14:48
SPEAKER_03: And so that was one of the things I found Really interesting in the nopes
14:52
SPEAKER_03: and dreams concept about rejection is like so much for midlife women,
14:58
SPEAKER_03: I think becomes about taking the reins
15:02
SPEAKER_03: and saying, I'm not gonna wait around for the gatekeepers to tell me if I'm ready,
15:08
SPEAKER_03: if I'm right, if I'm valuable, I wanna make something myself.
15:15
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's beautiful.
15:17
SPEAKER_03: And so I think like in that, Yes.
15:21
SPEAKER_03: You're in midlife, my friend.
15:22
SPEAKER_03: Making opportunities.
15:24
SPEAKER_03: I guess so.
15:24
SPEAKER_03: I am.
15:25
SPEAKER_03: I'm taking the reins.
15:26
SPEAKER_03: Should we talk a little bit more about all the like boldface name places just
15:30
SPEAKER_03: so people know how bad you are even though you're going to tell them you're not?
15:33
SPEAKER_02: So go for it.
15:34
SPEAKER_03: I mean, there's a lot of boldface names in here.
15:36
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
15:37
SPEAKER_03: You've been in a feature film playing alongside Emmy Award nominee Josh Charles in The Drowning.
15:43
SPEAKER_03: I haven't watched it,
15:43
SPEAKER_03: but now I'm going to.
15:45
SPEAKER_03: It's on Netflix.
15:46
SPEAKER_02: I play whatever.
15:47
SPEAKER_02: Go see it or don't.
15:49
SPEAKER_03: I'm so excited.
15:51
SPEAKER_03: And you're a writer and your spec scripts, which are just like pitch scripts, right?
15:57
SPEAKER_03: Got attention from Lorne Michaels,
15:59
SPEAKER_03: from Reese Witherspoon's company,
16:01
SPEAKER_03: from LeBron James's company,
16:03
SPEAKER_03: which I didn't know that existed,
16:04
SPEAKER_03: CBS and And frolic media options,
16:07
SPEAKER_03: your television show,
16:08
SPEAKER_03: which you also pitched to Netflix and Fox and CBS and Amazon Studios.
16:13
SPEAKER_03: And then last year you premiered a one woman show at the Orlando Fringe and you're a volunteer.
16:18
SPEAKER_03: Like you've got a lot of things going on.
16:22
SPEAKER_03: Sounds nice when you read it.
16:23
SPEAKER_03: Right?
16:24
SPEAKER_03: Like I kind of feel like that...
16:26
SPEAKER_02: The voices in my head don't say that.
16:28
SPEAKER_03: Is it the same Delta that I was going through in my 20s
16:31
SPEAKER_03: where it's like you hear it all together and it's kind of like,
16:34
SPEAKER_03: damn, I'm booked and busy.
16:36
SPEAKER_03: Whereas in the day to day, it's like so much rejection.
16:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think there's a lot of rejection and I think...
16:43
SPEAKER_02: It's that a lot of things have been almost, but nothing happened.
16:48
SPEAKER_02: It's not like you said.
16:49
SPEAKER_02: And then her show got picked up by CBS and it premiered and it didn't...
16:54
SPEAKER_02: I did all these amazing things and cool and I'm proud of them, but they didn't go anywhere.
16:59
SPEAKER_02: And I think that's the heartbreak.
17:00
SPEAKER_02: And when I was younger,
17:01
SPEAKER_02: I remember I was in an acting class and there was a girl and she had been
17:06
SPEAKER_02: a series regular on a TV show and she was back in acting class.
17:10
SPEAKER_03: And she was like, yeah, I was on the show and I was, you know, on whatever.
17:14
SPEAKER_02: Two seasons and now I have nothing.
17:16
SPEAKER_03: And I thought, why the fuck are you complaining?
17:19
SPEAKER_03: Am I allowed to swear on this podcast?
17:20
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I hope so.
17:21
SPEAKER_03: I think I've already said fuck the times.
17:22
SPEAKER_02: I was like, I swear so much.
17:23
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
17:24
SPEAKER_02: And I just thought, yeah, like, why are you complaining?
17:26
SPEAKER_02: You were on a hit show.
17:28
SPEAKER_02: All of us sitting here would kill to be on a hit show.
17:31
SPEAKER_02: And even the coach, the coach was like, it's so hard
17:35
SPEAKER_03: to like make it and then not.
17:38
SPEAKER_02: So it is interesting because I got so far and then nothing happens.
17:43
SPEAKER_02: And maybe there's heartbreak in all of it, but I just...
17:46
SPEAKER_02: It hasn't happened yet.
17:48
SPEAKER_03: Yet.
17:49
SPEAKER_02: I keep saying that because, yeah, I did all these cool things, but again, it didn't...
17:54
SPEAKER_02: But then I did that feature film and after that,
17:56
SPEAKER_02: I was like, all these cool things are going to happen.
17:58
SPEAKER_02: Everyone's going to want me.
18:00
SPEAKER_02: They're going to see what an amazing actress.
18:01
SPEAKER_02: And I played very against my type, which was probably the problem because...
18:06
SPEAKER_02: I'm a comedian and a comedic actor.
18:09
SPEAKER_02: And the role I played was like not who I am, like not what I want to be doing.
18:14
SPEAKER_02: So I'm sure maybe that hurt me in a way.
18:16
SPEAKER_02: But you know, it just, it didn't go anywhere.
18:19
SPEAKER_02: And that's what's hard about the business.
18:20
SPEAKER_02: As you well know, it's like you get this job and you're like, this is going to happen.
18:24
SPEAKER_02: And then it doesn't.
18:24
SPEAKER_02: And you're like, I got this and I met with this.
18:26
SPEAKER_02: It's like I met, like meeting with Lauren Michaels company is like, what?
18:31
SPEAKER_02: And then we sit down and they're like, Well, what else do you have?
18:34
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, well, I just, we have this TV show.
18:36
SPEAKER_02: And they're like, yeah, okay, but what else do you have?
18:38
SPEAKER_02: And we're like, well, we're working on this.
18:39
SPEAKER_02: We've worked for a year on this.
18:42
SPEAKER_02: So these are called general meetings,
18:44
SPEAKER_02: which there are a lot of actors who don't take general meetings.
18:46
SPEAKER_02: They're a waste of time.
18:48
SPEAKER_02: But when you're a young actor or a young writer, they feel incredible.
18:51
SPEAKER_02: You're like, who wouldn't want to have a general meeting with Lauren?
18:53
SPEAKER_02: It wasn't Lauren Michaels, but it was his company.
18:56
SPEAKER_02: Because it feels so impressive.
18:58
SPEAKER_02: But again, it went nowhere.
18:59
SPEAKER_02: Like none of these things.
19:01
SPEAKER_02: So it's, it just, it makes me sad, to be honest.
19:06
SPEAKER_03: And I feel shame with that because it didn't go anywhere.
19:10
SPEAKER_03: So interesting too, right?
19:11
SPEAKER_03: Like it is again, such a matter of perspective.
19:14
SPEAKER_03: And of course, if it feels like it didn't go anywhere, it feels like shit.
19:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
19:19
SPEAKER_03: But like, how true is it that it doesn't go anywhere?
19:24
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
19:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, maybe it will come full circle and I have scripts.
19:28
SPEAKER_02: I have like five scripts just sitting on the shelf and I would love to make them.
19:33
SPEAKER_02: I have one about two older women.
19:35
SPEAKER_02: It's like a friendship story about women in their...
19:38
SPEAKER_02: I think they put them in their 60s or 70s.
19:40
SPEAKER_02: And I wrote it like five years ago-ish.
19:43
SPEAKER_02: And I feel like maybe the world couldn't handle that then because Hollywood is ageist and...
19:50
SPEAKER_02: Who would dare want to see an old woman on the screen as a main character?
19:55
SPEAKER_02: How dare we?
19:57
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I can only hope that maybe things aren't dead or
20:03
SPEAKER_02: that they'll come back.
20:04
SPEAKER_02: But yeah,
20:05
SPEAKER_02: I definitely see the perspective because when I hear it through someone else's lens
20:10
SPEAKER_02: and they're like,
20:10
SPEAKER_02: oh, I did this and this and they didn't work, I'd be like, well, that's so cool.
20:13
SPEAKER_02: You did all those cool things.
20:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
20:15
SPEAKER_02: But to me, maybe I'm just... We're all our worst critics.
20:18
SPEAKER_02: And I think there's just pain to it because, again,
20:21
SPEAKER_02: I wanted to be an actress since I was in my first play at seven years old
20:26
SPEAKER_02: when I played a fish.
20:28
SPEAKER_03: And I just knew what I wanted.
20:29
SPEAKER_03: And then I felt like
20:31
SPEAKER_02: I didn't get it.
20:33
SPEAKER_02: And then you have to grieve.
20:34
SPEAKER_02: The life I thought I was going to have.
20:37
SPEAKER_02: And then you have kids and that changes everything.
20:39
SPEAKER_02: It's just...
20:39
SPEAKER_02: But I love this idea that this midlife that we can take the reins again and be like,
20:44
SPEAKER_02: okay, so the 20s and 30s didn't work out exactly.
20:48
SPEAKER_02: That doesn't mean in the 40s and 50s we can't dominate.
20:51
SPEAKER_02: So here's to that.
20:53
SPEAKER_03: Here's to that.
20:54
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
20:55
SPEAKER_03: And I think so much of it is about being a leader in our lives and saying...
21:01
SPEAKER_03: I talked to my...
21:03
SPEAKER_03: Family, my friends,
21:05
SPEAKER_03: my clients, everyone constantly about victim mindsets and leadership mindsets.
21:10
SPEAKER_03: And I think a victim mindset is one, of course, where we feel like the world is happening to us.
21:15
SPEAKER_03: And a leader mindset is the one where we're like, no, I'm in charge.
21:19
SPEAKER_03: And that's a vast oversimplification of it.
21:21
SPEAKER_03: But being able to say like, nothing is wasted.
21:25
SPEAKER_03: A, like you got a fucking meeting with all these people.
21:29
SPEAKER_03: B, yeah.
21:30
SPEAKER_03: You get to decide what to do with that.
21:32
SPEAKER_03: And like putting it in your bio is proof that it isn't wasted.
21:36
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
21:36
SPEAKER_03: You have those words in your bio now.
21:39
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
21:39
SPEAKER_03: Like you have those credibility markers now.
21:42
SPEAKER_03: So it was like whatever energy and effort you put into it, like you learned so much.
21:49
SPEAKER_03: And from a like behavior change perspective,
21:51
SPEAKER_03: that's what you see in terms of people with growth mindsets and people
21:56
SPEAKER_03: who do big shit.
21:57
SPEAKER_03: There are people who are like,
21:59
SPEAKER_03: all right,
22:00
SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna take whatever lesson,
22:03
SPEAKER_03: whatever opportunity I have been given here,
22:07
SPEAKER_03: I'm going to receive it and I'm gonna like stay in that leadership seat instead
22:13
SPEAKER_03: of thinking of what wasn't.
22:15
SPEAKER_03: Not that we're not gonna grieve, right?
22:17
SPEAKER_03: And we're gonna be all Pollyanna about everything and be like,
22:19
SPEAKER_03: it's all happy-go-lucky and this is exactly what I wanted it to be.
22:23
SPEAKER_03: But I do think it's like, Seth,
22:26
SPEAKER_03: I don't get to take all your energy and power just because they said no
22:29
SPEAKER_03: and it wasn't right for them in this moment.
22:32
SPEAKER_03: You're so right.
22:32
SPEAKER_02: I never looked at it as the word leadership.
22:36
SPEAKER_02: Like I think that is a cool word that I'll take with me or concept
22:41
SPEAKER_02: because this is again why I started a rejection podcast is
22:44
SPEAKER_02: because I personally take rejection really badly, especially as an actress.
22:49
SPEAKER_03: Like if I was rejected,
22:50
SPEAKER_02: I'll never do this again.
22:52
SPEAKER_02: You know, whatever, like catastrophizing.
22:56
SPEAKER_02: And maybe it's the victim mentality.
22:59
SPEAKER_02: But I like the idea of being a leader and not letting a no define me
23:04
SPEAKER_02: because it's one person's...
23:09
SPEAKER_02: Even I was just listening to a podcast with Will Ferrell and he said,
23:11
SPEAKER_02: I think when he was first on SNL,
23:14
SPEAKER_03: one of the best cast members of all time, right?
23:15
SPEAKER_03: Totally.
23:16
SPEAKER_02: And people were like, he's gonna ruin SNL.
23:19
SPEAKER_02: He's the worst new cast member.
23:21
SPEAKER_02: It's like, imagine if he internalized that.
23:24
SPEAKER_03: Totally.
23:25
SPEAKER_02: Or took it as fast.
23:26
SPEAKER_03: Totally.
23:27
SPEAKER_02: So it is interesting.
23:28
SPEAKER_02: And I think it's easier for me to see it from other people's perspective than it is my own.
23:33
SPEAKER_02: But I'm learning.
23:34
SPEAKER_02: I'm learning right now.
23:36
SPEAKER_02: I think this is my biggest learning lesson about rejection is like, okay,
23:40
SPEAKER_02: it's a no from that person, but it doesn't mean there'll be a yes along the way.
23:46
SPEAKER_02: But yeah,
23:47
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you felt this too,
23:48
SPEAKER_02: where in acting,
23:49
SPEAKER_02: it feels personal when you get rejected versus maybe rejected in other industries
23:56
SPEAKER_02: or other types of work.
23:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it feels like they're rejecting you,
24:01
SPEAKER_03: not your talent.
24:02
SPEAKER_03: Right.
24:03
SPEAKER_03: Like me.
24:04
SPEAKER_03: Right.
24:06
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
24:06
SPEAKER_03: Because so much of it is about personality and typing and all that.
24:10
SPEAKER_03: And I just think...
24:11
SPEAKER_03: Like my book is called Courage Capital.
24:14
SPEAKER_03: It's not too late to do big, brave things.
24:15
SPEAKER_03: And of course I talk about so much of it through the midlife lens.
24:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
24:19
SPEAKER_03: And the most hilarious thing I've learned along the way is like,
24:22
SPEAKER_03: I'll talk to 18 year olds and they'll be like, it's too late.
24:25
SPEAKER_02: I'm too late.
24:25
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, yeah.
24:27
SPEAKER_03: So it's like, we all, I think, fall into those mindsets that like, oh, we missed the window.
24:33
SPEAKER_02: You think women have it more?
24:34
SPEAKER_03: Oh, women definitely have it more.
24:36
SPEAKER_02: I feel like men are just like, I can do anything.
24:39
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
24:40
SPEAKER_03: And there's research to show that women are more likely to internalize feedback
24:45
SPEAKER_03: and feel like it's about them or their readiness or their rightness
24:50
SPEAKER_03: or their acceptability.
24:52
SPEAKER_03: And that's why we tend to play so general and lack the OV in so much of our work.
24:57
SPEAKER_03: And we're like, let me just be something for everybody.
25:01
SPEAKER_03: Whereas a man is more likely, research shows, to take a stronger point of view and perspective.
25:07
SPEAKER_03: And actually that makes it feel more authentic and more relevant.
25:10
SPEAKER_03: There's so much science about this that I'm immersed in right now.
25:13
SPEAKER_03: But my point sort of was that I just want to like,
25:18
SPEAKER_03: Acknowledge you and your total badass bravery for doing this show to be able to say,
25:24
SPEAKER_03: this thing is really hard for me.
25:25
SPEAKER_03: So I'm going to go find people who are figuring this out and talk about it
25:30
SPEAKER_03: because I suspect most of the damaging stories and conversations are just happening
25:37
SPEAKER_03: in your own head.
25:38
SPEAKER_03: And like when you can externalize them,
25:40
SPEAKER_03: whether it's with a friend or in a journal or on a podcast,
25:44
SPEAKER_03: it starts to deflate a little bit because that's what's true for most of us.
25:48
SPEAKER_03: That once we get these things out of our heads, it's like, oh, right.
25:52
SPEAKER_03: There are two perspectives to this or a hundred perspective.
25:55
SPEAKER_03: It's not just that bitchy voice in my head.
25:57
SPEAKER_03: It's like, you suck.
25:58
SPEAKER_03: No one will ever want you.
26:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
26:01
SPEAKER_03: Because we're not going to say that out loud because
26:03
SPEAKER_02: it sounds insane.
26:04
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
26:04
SPEAKER_02: I will say though, I had a trauma, if you want to call it that.
26:08
SPEAKER_02: I know that word is user.
26:10
SPEAKER_02: I had an event happen as a child with rejection.
26:14
SPEAKER_02: And I feel like there's life before that event and life after.
26:18
SPEAKER_02: And that's my pivotal life event with rejection that kind of changed Everything
26:23
SPEAKER_02: because I felt like I was actually a very young,
26:26
SPEAKER_02: a confident young person where I was like, I'm going to be an actress.
26:29
SPEAKER_02: I'm going to dominate.
26:30
SPEAKER_02: I'm funny.
26:31
SPEAKER_02: I'm out there.
26:32
SPEAKER_02: I felt that.
26:34
SPEAKER_02: And then this thing happened.
26:35
SPEAKER_02: And I felt the universe was saying, you know, all those things you want,
26:40
SPEAKER_03: you can't have them.
26:42
SPEAKER_02: They're not going to happen for you.
26:43
SPEAKER_02: So figure out what else you want to do.
26:46
SPEAKER_02: Even though I was like, this is the only thing I want to do.
26:49
SPEAKER_02: It felt so painful.
26:51
SPEAKER_02: And it felt so intense that I still feel like I haven't,
26:55
SPEAKER_02: even though I've been in therapy about it, it still comes up for me.
26:58
SPEAKER_02: And that's like what always comes back to that inner child, whatever it is.
27:02
SPEAKER_02: But that rejection moment is still what colors my view of rejection as an adult.
27:08
SPEAKER_03: And it's God, like almost 30 years later.
27:11
SPEAKER_03: I think that's true for all of us to some degree or another.
27:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
27:14
SPEAKER_03: There's this really wonderful memoir by a woman who's been on the show and she talks
27:19
SPEAKER_03: about naming her inner bully.
27:21
SPEAKER_03: And like every time it comes up, she's like, damn you, Scott Kennedy.
27:28
SPEAKER_03: Sarah Gormley.
27:29
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
27:30
SPEAKER_03: The book is so good.
27:31
SPEAKER_03: Sarah is so amazing.
27:32
SPEAKER_03: Her book is so amazing.
27:34
SPEAKER_03: Her story is so good.
27:34
SPEAKER_03: And it's basically like, it's therapy as a book.
27:37
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
27:38
SPEAKER_03: And she gave it a name so that each time that voice came up, she could name it.
27:43
SPEAKER_03: The truth is,
27:44
SPEAKER_03: you're going to develop all sorts of tactics for this because you're talking
27:48
SPEAKER_03: about it.
27:49
SPEAKER_03: Like again, the damaging thing I think is having it just stuck inside your head.
27:54
SPEAKER_03: Like they get more authority because they're still in there.
27:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
27:57
SPEAKER_02: And like, I want to be like, get over it.
28:01
SPEAKER_02: Why are you still thinking about it?
28:03
SPEAKER_02: You know, that feeling too.
28:04
SPEAKER_02: Totally.
28:04
SPEAKER_02: Shame of that.
28:05
SPEAKER_02: Of like, why is that one...
28:07
SPEAKER_02: It's not a little event because it's...
28:10
SPEAKER_02: But it's like, why does that take hold of me?
28:13
SPEAKER_02: But even...
28:14
SPEAKER_02: There's so many events in women's lives that like something happens and you're like, why?
28:18
SPEAKER_02: You know, why can't I move past?
28:21
SPEAKER_02: It's still...
28:22
SPEAKER_02: It keeps coming up.
28:24
SPEAKER_03: Do you respect that person now and their opinion?
28:27
SPEAKER_03: Which the person who rejected me?
28:30
SPEAKER_03: Uh-huh.
28:31
SPEAKER_03: No, like respect their decision?
28:33
SPEAKER_03: Respect them, like admire them.
28:36
SPEAKER_03: For rejecting me?
28:37
SPEAKER_02: No, who they are.
28:39
SPEAKER_02: I don't know because they were an adult and I was a child.
28:42
SPEAKER_02: It's tricky.
28:44
SPEAKER_03: It's, I don't know.
28:46
SPEAKER_03: I don't know that answer.
28:47
SPEAKER_02: There were times where I was like, okay, they had to do what they had to do.
28:51
SPEAKER_02: But also like, why, why?
28:53
SPEAKER_02: There was also a feeling later that I felt like it was on purpose to make me sad.
28:59
SPEAKER_02: That's the wrong way.
29:00
SPEAKER_02: On purpose to, even though I was most deserving, to fuck me over.
29:07
SPEAKER_02: And I can see that as kids and you can see like teachers will,
29:11
SPEAKER_02: if they don't like you as a kid, like maybe I was really confident and annoying.
29:15
SPEAKER_02: I've been an afterschool teacher.
29:16
SPEAKER_02: When kids are like so confident, you're just like...
29:20
SPEAKER_02: Maybe I was annoying.
29:21
SPEAKER_02: And they thought, I don't want to work with her.
29:23
SPEAKER_02: Like, I'll give it to this person who's so shy,
29:26
SPEAKER_02: who doesn't deserve... Not even that she doesn't deserve it, because that's...
29:29
SPEAKER_02: I think the word deserve is incorrect.
29:31
SPEAKER_02: But like, doesn't want it, doesn't need it.
29:35
SPEAKER_02: But I'm going to give it to her because let's see what someone who's super shy
29:39
SPEAKER_02: and awkward will do with this.
29:41
SPEAKER_02: But Jess is too confident and let's not give it to her.
29:45
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
29:45
SPEAKER_02: I could spiral on that.
29:46
SPEAKER_02: But I want to talk about you too.
29:48
SPEAKER_03: I'm like, I need to
29:49
SPEAKER_02: have a...
29:50
SPEAKER_03: I've actually wanted to do a podcast about this.
29:53
SPEAKER_02: Like, do an individual episode of just this drama, which is all related to acting everything.
30:00
SPEAKER_02: And I will...
30:00
SPEAKER_02: I'll dive into it.
30:01
SPEAKER_02: But it's like, I still don't know the answers.
30:04
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
30:04
SPEAKER_03: And like,
30:06
SPEAKER_03: one of the things I've learned from the show and some recent guests
30:09
SPEAKER_03: that I think has been...
30:10
SPEAKER_03: I have a person in my life who doesn't like me right now.
30:14
SPEAKER_02: Oh.
30:14
SPEAKER_02: Why?
30:15
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
30:16
SPEAKER_03: It's like family stuff.
30:17
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
30:18
SPEAKER_03: And whatever, everybody grieves in their own way.
30:20
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
30:21
SPEAKER_03: I really can't understand it.
30:23
SPEAKER_03: And so I think a lot,
30:26
SPEAKER_03: I was thinking a lot about them and I was kind of judging myself for being
30:30
SPEAKER_03: so bothered by it.
30:31
SPEAKER_03: And I realized that that was actually making it harder to just accept and move on.
30:40
SPEAKER_03: And one of the guests on the show was like, what if you're just sad about that?
30:44
SPEAKER_03: And that sucks.
30:46
SPEAKER_03: And you can be both really sad and really bummed and really disappointed
30:51
SPEAKER_03: and you can go on with your life.
30:56
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
30:57
SPEAKER_03: And it was somehow like actually trying to bully myself to not give
31:01
SPEAKER_03: a fuck was making it worse than just accepting that, yeah, I care.
31:05
SPEAKER_03: And it isn't the most important thing in my life.
31:09
SPEAKER_03: Right now.
31:10
SPEAKER_03: And it's not, I don't have any control over it.
31:12
SPEAKER_03: I don't have like done my part.
31:15
SPEAKER_03: And all I can do now is accept that I have a really great life.
31:21
SPEAKER_03: And there's so much that I love about it and
31:25
SPEAKER_02: move on.
31:26
SPEAKER_02: No, acceptance is key.
31:27
SPEAKER_02: That is a huge thing.
31:29
SPEAKER_02: Well, after air, I'm going to start thinking about this.
31:31
SPEAKER_03: So thank you for Bring me that because I'm like, I gotta think about this.
31:35
SPEAKER_03: Something's coming up and stirring
31:37
SPEAKER_02: in my body right now.
31:38
SPEAKER_02: Okay, I want to ask you about A,
31:40
SPEAKER_02: how you started The Uplifters pod,
31:42
SPEAKER_02: but more that,
31:44
SPEAKER_02: that's my part one,
31:46
SPEAKER_02: but part two is, let's start with part two before you tell me that.
31:49
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
31:50
SPEAKER_02: Why do you think, I wrote this down, women are taught not to uplift each other?
31:57
SPEAKER_02: Because I think it connects with the podcast,
31:59
SPEAKER_02: but I,
32:00
SPEAKER_01: in my midlife as you call it,
32:03
SPEAKER_02: Even though I don't know.
32:05
SPEAKER_02: In my wiser years,
32:07
SPEAKER_02: I am starting to meet women who are so uplifting and they're older and midlife.
32:11
SPEAKER_02: And I'm so grateful I've met them because in my youth, I did not have that.
32:16
SPEAKER_02: And I feel like it's once you get uplifted,
32:21
SPEAKER_02: it's like the pay it forward method where it's like someone uplifts me and I'm like,
32:25
SPEAKER_02: well, I got to uplift someone else.
32:27
SPEAKER_02: And I hope they uplift and then we're all uplifting.
32:30
SPEAKER_02: And it is this energy shift and it's so beautiful.
32:33
SPEAKER_02: And I'm just so grateful to be in that.
32:36
SPEAKER_02: And I wanted to ask you why you think we're taught,
32:38
SPEAKER_02: I feel like pretty young as women not to do that.
32:43
SPEAKER_03: I think it's super contextual and most of the messages we get about it are rooted in scarcity.
32:51
SPEAKER_03: And so I think actually in...
32:54
SPEAKER_03: Acting because it is so personal and image driven.
32:59
SPEAKER_03: You've probably just crossed paths with a lot more people than many other industries
33:05
SPEAKER_03: that are cutthroat and out for themselves and feel this sense of competition
33:10
SPEAKER_03: because there are so few projects and there are so few projects for women,
33:14
SPEAKER_03: especially...
33:16
SPEAKER_02: It's like one role
33:17
SPEAKER_03: for... Yep.
33:18
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's right.
33:18
SPEAKER_03: There is one person being cast in that role at that show at that time.
33:23
SPEAKER_03: And so like the same though happens in corporate environments, right?
33:28
SPEAKER_03: And I think to a much lesser degree now than let's say in the 70s and 80s and 90s
33:36
SPEAKER_03: where the imbalance of power was so extreme.
33:42
SPEAKER_03: It's still, there's still power imbalance.
33:43
SPEAKER_03: There's still a scarcity of roles there.
33:47
SPEAKER_03: And it is steadily improving thanks to the efforts
33:50
SPEAKER_03: of women who've worked really effing hard to make that so.
33:54
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
33:54
SPEAKER_03: And to continue to...
33:56
SPEAKER_03: Fight really hard for equity.
33:58
SPEAKER_03: And there are improvements in like the percentage of female directors
34:04
SPEAKER_03: that are getting funding,
34:06
SPEAKER_03: the percentage of female actors who are getting roles that pass the pectal test
34:10
SPEAKER_03: that aren't just talking about boys.
34:14
SPEAKER_03: And so things are better, but there is still scarcity for that reason.
34:17
SPEAKER_03: So that to me is really like the systemic issue of modern times.
34:23
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
34:24
SPEAKER_03: Because this is a new phenomenon.
34:27
SPEAKER_03: If you go back 50 years, like not far, this was not a thing, right?
34:36
SPEAKER_03: Maybe 60 years, I don't know.
34:38
SPEAKER_03: But like go back into the 30s,
34:40
SPEAKER_03: the 40s,
34:41
SPEAKER_03: for the most part,
34:42
SPEAKER_03: women were still living more in villages, more in community areas.
34:51
SPEAKER_03: And while maybe,
34:52
SPEAKER_03: you know, you look back historically, women might have been competing for mates.
34:57
SPEAKER_03: For the large part,
34:58
SPEAKER_03: once people secured a desirable mate,
35:01
SPEAKER_03: they were living in community and resources were shared.
35:05
SPEAKER_03: And so I feel like taking that sort of long lens historic view of it just reminds me
35:11
SPEAKER_03: a little bit more about our primal core nature because it is
35:15
SPEAKER_03: so not my experience anymore.
35:16
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
35:18
SPEAKER_03: Only know women who love to lift each other up.
35:21
SPEAKER_03: That's amazing.
35:22
SPEAKER_03: Who like live for that.
35:25
SPEAKER_02: But how did you enter into that?
35:27
SPEAKER_02: Like, how did you, right?
35:29
SPEAKER_02: Like, because it wasn't always, right?
35:31
SPEAKER_02: Like, how did you find these women?
35:32
SPEAKER_02: Because I do, I feel like I found one and then now it's, I'm...
35:36
SPEAKER_02: All of them.
35:37
SPEAKER_02: And I only want to surround myself with those type of
35:40
SPEAKER_03: women because...
35:40
SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's part of it, right?
35:42
SPEAKER_03: It's who you choose.
35:44
SPEAKER_03: I hung around people who got high a lot for a lot of years because I like to get high.
35:49
SPEAKER_03: And so I would hang out with other people who like to do that.
35:53
SPEAKER_03: And then I was like,
35:54
SPEAKER_03: I think I want to hang out with people I find aspirational because they're creative.
35:59
SPEAKER_03: Or they're brave, right?
36:01
SPEAKER_03: And so then I just started self-selecting the people who were more like
36:04
SPEAKER_03: the people I wanted to hang out with.
36:06
SPEAKER_03: And as my circle changed, I changed.
36:10
SPEAKER_03: Around what age did that happen?
36:12
SPEAKER_03: Largely, like...
36:14
SPEAKER_03: It's progressive, right?
36:15
SPEAKER_03: I'd say like 30s, it started to change.
36:18
SPEAKER_03: 40s, even more.
36:19
SPEAKER_03: 50s, I really feel like I am.
36:22
SPEAKER_03: And like my 40s, like was really influenced by like moms who drank and had small children.
36:29
SPEAKER_02: I was in the party mom circle.
36:32
SPEAKER_02: Oh God, that's so relatable.
36:33
SPEAKER_02: So relatable.
36:35
SPEAKER_03: Now,
36:36
SPEAKER_03: like my people are all people who are just like so brave and doing such badass shit
36:42
SPEAKER_03: and submitting themselves for stuff that they don't have a chance in hell
36:45
SPEAKER_03: of getting.
36:46
SPEAKER_03: I love those people.
36:48
SPEAKER_03: How did you meet them though?
36:49
SPEAKER_03: Is it through your kids?
36:50
SPEAKER_03: I cultivated it.
36:51
SPEAKER_03: No, I just like when I would meet, first of all, it's how you present yourself, right?
36:57
SPEAKER_03: If like you go to the party and you're like, Let's get drunk.
37:02
SPEAKER_03: Right?
37:02
SPEAKER_03: Like you're going to attract the people who are like, let's get drunk.
37:05
SPEAKER_03: Right.
37:06
SPEAKER_03: If you go to the party and you're like, my kids are fucking annoying.
37:09
SPEAKER_03: You're going to attract the moms who complain about their kids.
37:11
SPEAKER_03: If you go to the party and you're like, I'm writing a book about doing big, brave things.
37:16
SPEAKER_03: You're going to attract people who are like, that sounds so much fun.
37:19
SPEAKER_03: Right?
37:19
SPEAKER_03: And so I do think like the stories we tell about ourselves
37:24
SPEAKER_03: and what like our actions influence our identity,
37:28
SPEAKER_03: influence our Our perception of ourselves and then the perception we offer up
37:32
SPEAKER_03: to others.
37:33
SPEAKER_02: But don't you think there's also a vulnerability to that?
37:35
SPEAKER_02: For you to go to a party and be like, I'm writing a book.
37:38
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
37:38
SPEAKER_02: That's brave.
37:39
SPEAKER_02: I'm sorry.
37:39
SPEAKER_02: That is some brave shit.
37:41
SPEAKER_03: I mean, it doesn't feel brave anymore though, because I did it a couple of times.
37:44
SPEAKER_03: It felt brave in the beginning.
37:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
37:46
SPEAKER_03: And then it was normalized, right?
37:48
SPEAKER_02: So our bravery goes through thresholds.
37:49
SPEAKER_03: I even get
37:51
SPEAKER_02: anxious to talk about that I have a podcast.
37:54
SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh.
37:54
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
37:55
SPEAKER_03: Girl.
37:56
SPEAKER_02: Even though I am so proud of it, just for listeners, like I love doing it.
37:59
SPEAKER_02: It's really good.
38:00
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
38:01
SPEAKER_02: You're very sweet.
38:01
SPEAKER_03: But like at parties, we were like, oh, what do you do or whatever?
38:06
SPEAKER_02: It's like, oh, I'm a failed actress.
38:11
SPEAKER_02: I have a podcast.
38:12
SPEAKER_02: What's it about?
38:13
SPEAKER_02: Creativity and rejection.
38:15
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
38:15
SPEAKER_02: I live in a weird place.
38:18
SPEAKER_02: So creativity is a struggle here.
38:20
SPEAKER_03: If you want to be around warm and vulnerable people, you have to act warm and vulnerable.
38:25
SPEAKER_03: I'll work on the warmth.
38:28
SPEAKER_02: Wait, that was a joke.
38:30
SPEAKER_02: It's good.
38:31
SPEAKER_02: Very dry humor.
38:32
SPEAKER_02: There was like that long pause.
38:33
SPEAKER_02: That was actually great comedy.
38:35
SPEAKER_02: No, I am very warm.
38:37
SPEAKER_03: I am warm, guys.
38:38
SPEAKER_03: You are warm.
38:39
SPEAKER_03: And you're clearly vulnerable or you wouldn't be hosting a show called Nopes and Dreams.
38:45
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
38:45
SPEAKER_03: Right?
38:45
SPEAKER_03: You just like, you're telling yourself a story that you aren't.
38:48
SPEAKER_03: And you're actually really crazy freaking brave.
38:52
SPEAKER_03: My bestie and I, like,
38:54
SPEAKER_03: Our whole relationship is built around like egging each other on to do brave shit.
38:58
SPEAKER_03: And we talk every Friday.
39:00
SPEAKER_03: And really that's kind of where it started is like,
39:03
SPEAKER_03: she is the most creatively generous human on the planet.
39:10
SPEAKER_03: And as we became friends, I was like... How did you meet her?
39:13
SPEAKER_03: We met through running.
39:15
SPEAKER_03: And I was like, she's like your age.
39:20
SPEAKER_03: Like she's quite a bit younger than me.
39:22
SPEAKER_03: She is...
39:23
SPEAKER_03: Total badass.
39:24
SPEAKER_03: She's done so much amazing work.
39:26
SPEAKER_03: And I was like, oh, I really like this person.
39:29
SPEAKER_03: And I would like it if my life was populated by people like this.
39:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
39:34
SPEAKER_03: And so that's a big part of it, right?
39:36
SPEAKER_03: Like I met one person and I was like, I really like this relationship.
39:39
SPEAKER_03: I like this friendship.
39:40
SPEAKER_03: I like what we talk about.
39:41
SPEAKER_03: I like what we think about.
39:44
SPEAKER_03: And so then I started to be a leader and And create opportunities like that.
39:51
SPEAKER_03: And I started showing up like that.
39:53
SPEAKER_03: I was like, well, what is it I like about that?
39:54
SPEAKER_03: I was like, well, she's just like boldly generous and believes that this isn't a zero-sum game.
40:03
SPEAKER_03: That it's actually a pie that grows exponentially every time we give it away.
40:09
SPEAKER_03: And so I started being that way.
40:11
SPEAKER_03: And now if you ask people who know me, that's what they're going to tell you.
40:14
SPEAKER_03: I don't know that that was always the case.
40:16
SPEAKER_02: Well, I love the idea that you can cultivate it.
40:20
SPEAKER_02: Like for listeners to be like, well, how do I get there?
40:22
SPEAKER_02: It's like you just today start and that you change that.
40:26
SPEAKER_02: Also, I want to ask with, so how do you uplift?
40:30
SPEAKER_02: I'll say how you uplifted me so I can tell you.
40:33
SPEAKER_02: So someone connect, Michelle connected us.
40:36
SPEAKER_02: You could have said, I don't want to talk to her.
40:38
SPEAKER_02: Oh, she has a podcast.
40:39
SPEAKER_02: I don't need to talk to her.
40:40
SPEAKER_02: You can say no, right?
40:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, of course.
40:42
SPEAKER_02: You said yes.
40:43
SPEAKER_02: You were so lovely.
40:44
SPEAKER_02: You spoke to me and I kind of...
40:45
SPEAKER_01: I was even nervous to be like, Can we do a collaborating
40:50
SPEAKER_02: podcast?
40:51
SPEAKER_02: I was nervous to ask for what I want,
40:53
SPEAKER_02: which was, Hey, can we do this thing where we collab together?
40:56
SPEAKER_02: Because you're a pro now.
40:58
SPEAKER_02: You're in this three years and I'm new to it.
41:01
SPEAKER_02: And you were so gracious to me, answered all my questions.
41:04
SPEAKER_02: To me...
41:06
SPEAKER_02: You uplifted me.
41:07
SPEAKER_02: You're an uplifter.
41:09
SPEAKER_02: So what in other ways have you uplifted friends, strangers?
41:12
SPEAKER_02: Like what are your go-tos, if
41:14
SPEAKER_03: you will?
41:15
SPEAKER_03: I think actually, and you hit on something super, super important.
41:18
SPEAKER_03: And I'm so glad it felt that way to you.
41:19
SPEAKER_03: Like, did it cost me anything?
41:22
SPEAKER_03: No.
41:23
SPEAKER_03: Was it hard in any way?
41:24
SPEAKER_03: Your time and energy.
41:25
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
41:26
SPEAKER_03: And I just believe that as women, especially, but as humans in general...
41:32
SPEAKER_03: Our relationships are everything.
41:36
SPEAKER_03: And I don't say that in a transactional way at all, actually.
41:39
SPEAKER_03: I just say that like,
41:41
SPEAKER_03: if I am surrounded by stories of people who are doing brave things,
41:46
SPEAKER_03: I am more likely,
41:48
SPEAKER_03: according to very sound and extensive bodies of research,
41:52
SPEAKER_03: to do more big, brave things.
41:54
SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
41:55
SPEAKER_03: Our behaviors and our mindsets and our beliefs are wildly shaped by people who are around.
42:00
SPEAKER_03: And so, yeah,
42:01
SPEAKER_03: like I believe that if I'm that kind of person,
42:03
SPEAKER_03: I'm going to be around that kind of person.
42:06
SPEAKER_03: And so that's number one, that this is not a zero-sum game.
42:09
SPEAKER_03: And if you believe it is,
42:12
SPEAKER_03: you are going to feel like people are stealing your energy and your time
42:15
SPEAKER_03: and your resources and your ideas.
42:18
SPEAKER_03: And you're going to feel empty and betrayed and exhausted.
42:21
SPEAKER_03: And...
42:24
SPEAKER_03: If you believe that you have something to learn from every person you talk to,
42:29
SPEAKER_03: that other people are creatively energizing and stimulating and like talking
42:34
SPEAKER_03: to you is going to perk me up and add some novelty to something I do every day of
42:41
SPEAKER_03: the week.
42:42
SPEAKER_03: And that like this will imbue me with new energy and ideas and creativity
42:49
SPEAKER_03: and excitement because you are where you are in this journey.
42:54
SPEAKER_03: It's a hell yes.
42:55
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
42:56
SPEAKER_03: And it feels so easy.
42:57
SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, oh, if I can introduce you to someone, maybe that helps you.
43:01
SPEAKER_03: Right.
43:01
SPEAKER_03: And there is a truth that tides rise together.
43:03
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
43:04
SPEAKER_03: But I'm saying we were taught or I'll say I was taught.
43:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
43:08
SPEAKER_02: Not that.
43:08
SPEAKER_02: Zero sound.
43:09
SPEAKER_02: Don't help her because then it might affect you and then you won't.
43:12
SPEAKER_02: It's like, no.
43:13
SPEAKER_02: And as you said, like, if I help someone, it helps me.
43:17
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
43:18
SPEAKER_02: It's like a full...
43:20
SPEAKER_02: Circle?
43:20
SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
43:21
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
43:22
SPEAKER_03: It comes back to me, boomerangs.
43:24
SPEAKER_03: And I think what you said about the asking for what you want,
43:28
SPEAKER_03: it is actually a big, big piece of it.
43:31
SPEAKER_03: So every event that I do and I host both live and virtual events pretty frequently,
43:36
SPEAKER_03: it all centers around this one agreement, which is lift and be lifted.
43:40
SPEAKER_03: And the lift is ask yourself, what do you have an abundance of?
43:44
SPEAKER_03: You have a podcast.
43:45
SPEAKER_03: You have experience as an actor, as a writer.
43:49
SPEAKER_03: You've been to these general meetings.
43:51
SPEAKER_03: I don't know what that is, right?
43:52
SPEAKER_03: I've never been there.
43:53
SPEAKER_03: I don't know that perspective.
43:54
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
43:55
SPEAKER_03: You have all these experiences and all these gifts and all these resources
43:59
SPEAKER_03: and this network and community.
44:02
SPEAKER_03: So you are rich and you have a bunch to share.
44:05
SPEAKER_03: So first, it's acknowledging what you have.
44:08
SPEAKER_03: The second is be lifted.
44:10
SPEAKER_03: And that is the harder part for most of the women I talk to.
44:13
SPEAKER_03: Mm, elaborate.
44:14
SPEAKER_03: Which is asking for what you want.
44:16
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
44:17
SPEAKER_03: And I had a woman,
44:17
SPEAKER_03: the first time I did one of these events,
44:20
SPEAKER_03: I did a little feedback survey and like,
44:22
SPEAKER_03: out of 100 people, 99 of them were like, oh my God, this is the most amazing day.
44:26
SPEAKER_03: I have never felt so uplifted.
44:29
SPEAKER_03: I've never felt so supportive.
44:30
SPEAKER_03: I've never seen women act like this, all the things you said, right?
44:34
SPEAKER_03: And people were just like, gaga.
44:36
SPEAKER_03: And it was when I finally realized like, Sorry, I'm digressing 50 times in one sentence.
44:40
SPEAKER_02: Oh, don't worry.
44:40
SPEAKER_03: But you talk about how like, oh, nothing feels like it gets traction.
44:44
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
44:44
SPEAKER_03: That decision to frame things through lift and be lifted was actually the most,
44:50
SPEAKER_03: the idea with the most traction that I've ever had because it was the one
44:53
SPEAKER_03: that like hit the need most clearly.
44:56
SPEAKER_03: There was one woman though in the feedback survey who was like,
44:59
SPEAKER_03: I felt like I was asked to give a lot but didn't get as much in return.
45:03
SPEAKER_03: And I was like, I did not take that as rejection, right?
45:06
SPEAKER_02: For my principal, which I would have in other times,
45:10
SPEAKER_03: I took it as I wish I knew who that was so that I could help her learn to ask
45:14
SPEAKER_03: for what she needs.
45:16
SPEAKER_03: Because the reason she felt like she wasn't getting her needs met isn't
45:19
SPEAKER_03: because nobody was helpful.
45:22
SPEAKER_03: Right.
45:22
SPEAKER_03: Because these women are crazy committed to helping.
45:27
SPEAKER_03: I've literally never seen anybody ask for something and not get 10 ideas.
45:31
SPEAKER_03: Right.
45:32
SPEAKER_02: Can you explain what it is again?
45:33
SPEAKER_02: Because I want to come to the next one.
45:35
SPEAKER_02: It's on Zoom, but what do you call them?
45:37
SPEAKER_02: It's called something.
45:37
SPEAKER_03: Lift and Be Lifted.
45:38
SPEAKER_02: Oh, it is called that.
45:39
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's called
45:40
SPEAKER_02: Lift and Be Lifted.
45:41
SPEAKER_03: We're really, really consistent here.
45:43
SPEAKER_03: Yes, great.
45:45
SPEAKER_03: And so, yeah, we do them on Zoom.
45:47
SPEAKER_03: We do them in person.
45:48
SPEAKER_03: I do it.
45:49
SPEAKER_03: We do retreats.
45:51
SPEAKER_03: We do one day events, all sorts of opportunities.
45:54
SPEAKER_03: And then I also do it just sort of haphazardly on my Substack in the chat
45:59
SPEAKER_03: for paid subscribers.
46:00
SPEAKER_03: And then I have a WhatsApp group right now.
46:02
SPEAKER_03: Anyway, there's lots of places to access all these women.
46:04
SPEAKER_02: Just everywhere.
46:06
SPEAKER_03: Love it.
46:06
SPEAKER_03: And people are just so generous because we are so...
46:10
SPEAKER_03: I think we feel richer when we acknowledge for ourselves that we have something to share.
46:15
SPEAKER_02: Okay, wait, I'm going to throw a wrench in this.
46:17
SPEAKER_02: Yes, do it.
46:19
SPEAKER_02: Because you're saying that most of the women you're surrounding yourself are,
46:22
SPEAKER_02: let's say, 40 plus.
46:24
SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
46:24
SPEAKER_02: What about these 30-somethings?
46:26
SPEAKER_02: I just left the 30s.
46:28
SPEAKER_02: So I've said goodbye to my 30s, which I actually loved my second half of my 30s.
46:34
SPEAKER_03: Are they uplifting?
46:35
SPEAKER_03: Are you coming across 30-somethings that are like, let's do this too?
46:38
SPEAKER_02: Or they're not there yet?
46:39
SPEAKER_03: I have to say the 30-somethings that come to the events because they're like,
46:43
SPEAKER_03: I want a window into my future is really why they come.
46:46
SPEAKER_03: That's cool.
46:47
SPEAKER_03: They are, in some cases, the most resourced and the most generous.
46:53
SPEAKER_02: Really?
46:53
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
46:54
SPEAKER_02: I, you know, I think people are just waiting.
46:56
SPEAKER_02: I'm judging.
46:57
SPEAKER_03: I'm not saying like 30s aren't.
46:59
SPEAKER_03: No, most people want to be helpful.
47:02
SPEAKER_03: I did a survey of a thousand women when I first made this transition out of corporate.
47:06
SPEAKER_03: And I was like, how do you define what a good life is?
47:08
SPEAKER_02: How do you do that?
47:08
SPEAKER_02: How do you get a thousand people to survey?
47:11
SPEAKER_03: I'm super proud of the process.
47:12
SPEAKER_03: I'll tell you all about the nuts and bolts.
47:14
SPEAKER_02: You're a badass.
47:15
SPEAKER_02: You know how to do.
47:16
SPEAKER_03: But basically I was just like, yeah,
47:19
SPEAKER_03: I can tell you the whole process, but I got a thousand women to answer this survey.
47:23
SPEAKER_03: And I then did a full manual assessment of it because this is before AI.
47:30
SPEAKER_03: And it came up, people were only saying three things over and over.
47:34
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
47:34
SPEAKER_03: What were they saying?
47:35
SPEAKER_03: They wanted to be well, like physically and mentally healthy.
47:40
SPEAKER_03: They wanted to have deep, meaningful relationships.
47:44
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
47:44
SPEAKER_03: And they wanted to make a difference.
47:46
SPEAKER_03: They wanted to
47:46
SPEAKER_02: contribute and have positive impact.
47:49
SPEAKER_03: And I've done other research through my consulting work with much bigger sample sizes.
47:55
SPEAKER_03: And that urge to do good,
47:59
SPEAKER_03: to have a positive impact,
48:00
SPEAKER_03: to leave a legacy, to do work with meaning, it is so consistent.
48:07
SPEAKER_03: It is a deep human desire.
48:10
SPEAKER_03: And so most of us are kind of just trying to figure out through the vagaries and the hiding...
48:16
SPEAKER_03: What other people want.
48:18
SPEAKER_03: And we're so exhausted by trying to figure that out on our own
48:21
SPEAKER_03: that we feel like we're getting it wrong all the time or that like it's too hard.
48:28
SPEAKER_03: And so the second you say to people, no, no, no, no, no.
48:31
SPEAKER_03: This is a place to be brave and awkward and weird and just say you want something.
48:36
SPEAKER_03: And like actually say what you want.
48:38
SPEAKER_03: Listen to my podcast.
48:40
SPEAKER_03: Buy my book.
48:41
SPEAKER_03: Invite me to your so-and-so.
48:43
SPEAKER_03: Let's collaborate.
48:44
SPEAKER_03: Like...
48:46
SPEAKER_03: Just saying that feels so hard for so many of us.
48:49
SPEAKER_03: And so actually the most radical thing I've ever done is just say,
48:52
SPEAKER_03: okay, I'm expecting you to do that.
48:55
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you just saying all that, like my stomach's like, oh no, I can't, I can't.
49:00
SPEAKER_02: But wow, why?
49:02
SPEAKER_02: Whoa, the shift in my life if I... And that's
49:06
SPEAKER_01: anyone who wants to follow me on Instagram lately.
49:09
SPEAKER_02: I get so cringe.
49:10
SPEAKER_02: I'm so cringe because I'm not a social media person.
49:12
SPEAKER_02: Like, although I am a millennial and you're like, well, you hate me, me, me.
49:17
SPEAKER_02: Sure, sure.
49:18
SPEAKER_02: But I don't enjoy it.
49:19
SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't subscribe, like.
49:21
SPEAKER_02: It just feels so cringe.
49:24
SPEAKER_02: Fringe to me.
49:25
SPEAKER_02: I don't like it.
49:26
SPEAKER_02: But also I need followers.
49:27
SPEAKER_02: Like I want people to see and listen to my podcast.
49:30
SPEAKER_02: But asking for that,
49:31
SPEAKER_02: like a friend just recently was like,
49:33
SPEAKER_02: why don't you just go on Instagram and be like,
49:35
SPEAKER_02: hey guys,
49:35
SPEAKER_02: like I know I don't have a lot of followers,
49:37
SPEAKER_02: but if you could share and I'm like, oh, I can't do that.
49:39
SPEAKER_02: Like, so it's, wow.
49:42
SPEAKER_03: You, well, I can't wait to go to your next.
49:45
SPEAKER_03: People want to help you.
49:46
SPEAKER_03: They don't know what you want.
49:49
SPEAKER_03: I know, but it's, I guess I feel.
49:52
SPEAKER_03: You have to tell them.
49:53
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if shame is the right word.
49:55
SPEAKER_02: Maybe it's shame or embarrassed.
49:57
SPEAKER_02: I think it's embarrassed to be grovelly and say, oh, can you follow me?
50:03
SPEAKER_02: It feels so trivial and I feel stupid.
50:07
SPEAKER_03: And needy.
50:08
SPEAKER_03: And needy.
50:09
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
50:10
SPEAKER_03: I think as women, we are trained that way.
50:13
SPEAKER_03: And again, I've done so much research on the history of this over the last year.
50:17
SPEAKER_03: And we are trained from a very young age to not want To not ask for our needs
50:25
SPEAKER_03: to be met, to not be needy or hungry or thirsty.
50:31
SPEAKER_03: But right, like that is the biggest shame you can heap upon a woman.
50:38
SPEAKER_03: And it creates an impossible expectation because of course we want things.
50:45
SPEAKER_03: And so we just keep denying ourselves.
50:46
SPEAKER_03: And I mean,
50:47
SPEAKER_03: there are people who would say that that is the root of so much of
50:51
SPEAKER_03: the obesity epidemic in America is that nobody is meeting our needs.
50:56
SPEAKER_03: And so the easiest thing we can do is try to give ourselves some pleasure
51:00
SPEAKER_03: and meet our own desires with poisons and things
51:06
SPEAKER_03: that ultimately may be not providing us a lot of joy long-term,
51:10
SPEAKER_03: but at least meet the needs short-term.
51:12
SPEAKER_03: Whether it's drugs, alcohol, you name it.
51:15
SPEAKER_03: Because it's like, we just want to be heard.
51:18
SPEAKER_03: We want response.
51:20
SPEAKER_03: And so what's the antidote to that?
51:24
SPEAKER_03: It's to just ask for what we need over and over and over again.
51:27
SPEAKER_02: And connection.
51:30
SPEAKER_02: I've always been fascinated by group therapy.
51:32
SPEAKER_02: I always wanted to do group therapy.
51:34
SPEAKER_02: I did anger management
51:35
SPEAKER_01: in my 20s, guys.
51:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
51:37
SPEAKER_02: But my goal was to be like,
51:39
SPEAKER_02: I want to go to a group anger management where I'm around a bunch of angry people
51:43
SPEAKER_02: and we can like be
51:44
SPEAKER_03: angry together and heal together.
51:46
SPEAKER_02: It didn't happen.
51:47
SPEAKER_02: It's like the...
51:48
SPEAKER_02: It closed.
51:49
SPEAKER_02: I was living in New York City and I worked with the anger
51:52
SPEAKER_03: management person,
51:53
SPEAKER_03: but like it was just me or her one-on-one.
51:56
SPEAKER_02: But there is something about the collective where if we're all doing it together,
52:01
SPEAKER_02: I think that's why I'm not an addict,
52:02
SPEAKER_02: but I'm fascinated by 12-step programs because...
52:06
SPEAKER_02: There's something, they're so supportive of each other.
52:10
SPEAKER_02: And I always joke, I'm like, why do I have to have an addiction problem to get that love?
52:14
SPEAKER_02: Like I want this 12-step program love or group love from just like,
52:20
SPEAKER_02: whether it's creativity or like a 12-step program for rejection.
52:24
SPEAKER_02: Because my friend was in AA for five years and I was just,
52:28
SPEAKER_02: the bonding and the love and the,
52:30
SPEAKER_02: if I have a problem, I call this person, she shows up for me.
52:33
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, well, I just want, In life, because we all are struggling.
52:38
SPEAKER_02: We all have addictions in different ways.
52:41
SPEAKER_02: Food, numbing, whatever it is, like working.
52:45
SPEAKER_02: But anyways, I digress.
52:47
SPEAKER_02: But it's all fascinating.
52:50
SPEAKER_03: I think what you're asking for, though,
52:51
SPEAKER_03: is collective agreement and vulnerability and Like an agreement to say like,
52:58
SPEAKER_03: oh, we're going to be flawed.
53:00
SPEAKER_03: We're going to make mistakes.
53:02
SPEAKER_03: There's a woman who was on the show who is a world record holding juggler.
53:08
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
53:09
SPEAKER_03: That means that she juggles while jogging.
53:13
SPEAKER_03: I was going to say, okay, juggler.
53:16
SPEAKER_03: Cool.
53:16
SPEAKER_03: Yep.
53:16
SPEAKER_03: She's awesome.
53:17
SPEAKER_03: Carly Swain.
53:19
SPEAKER_03: And she grew up Believing that she could not make mistakes.
53:24
SPEAKER_03: Like a perfectionist to the nth degree, an absolute paralysis of perfectionism.
53:33
SPEAKER_03: And juggling is actually where she learned her way through the power of mistakes.
53:39
SPEAKER_03: She went somewhere where people were like, no, juggling has to have mistakes.
53:45
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
53:46
SPEAKER_02: And so set the expectation
53:49
SPEAKER_03: of mistake making and it literally changed her entire life.
53:53
SPEAKER_03: Because she started like letting herself make mistakes there
53:56
SPEAKER_03: and she started seeing like her learning capacity and what happened when she dropped
54:00
SPEAKER_03: a ball and then picked it up and that she got better.
54:03
SPEAKER_03: And so then like her entire relationship with her work, with her husband, right?
54:08
SPEAKER_03: Like all these things changed as a result of that.
54:10
SPEAKER_03: So yeah, I do think like rejection tolerance, which is what you're learning.
54:14
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
54:16
SPEAKER_03: And mistake tolerance are the key to unlocking everything.
54:22
SPEAKER_03: But I'll give you my little shortcut to this like asking more comfortably question.
54:30
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
54:31
SPEAKER_03: Which is to caveat it and to be really honest and acknowledge that it's hard
54:35
SPEAKER_03: and awkward for you.
54:36
SPEAKER_03: At the start, meaning like this is hard for me.
54:38
SPEAKER_03: To say honestly, like, I feel so uncomfortable asking this.
54:43
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
54:44
SPEAKER_03: But it would mean the world to me if you did this.
54:48
SPEAKER_03: It's good.
54:48
SPEAKER_03: It's good.
54:49
SPEAKER_03: And like people are going to, people care because they're humans.
54:53
SPEAKER_03: And the worst that happens is they say, no.
54:55
SPEAKER_03: There are a couple of sick psycho killers out there.
54:57
SPEAKER_03: But like 99.999% of the people you know are like great humans who just want to know how to help.
55:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
55:06
SPEAKER_02: And it must, as you said, like giving.
55:08
SPEAKER_02: If someone asked for help and I had the resources to give it to them, I would love that.
55:13
SPEAKER_02: I'd be like, ooh, guess what?
55:15
SPEAKER_02: I know that person.
55:16
SPEAKER_02: I'm going to introduce you or whatever it is.
55:18
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
55:19
SPEAKER_02: It's amazing.
55:19
SPEAKER_02: There must
55:19
SPEAKER_02: be a pleasure to that as well.
55:22
SPEAKER_03: It's amazing.
55:23
SPEAKER_03: Literally everything in my life is because of that.
55:26
SPEAKER_03: Somebody asked me the story of my life the other day and it was a woman I really don't know.
55:31
SPEAKER_03: And I went through four or five little stories and she goes,
55:35
SPEAKER_03: oh, so you're just like, you have angels all around you.
55:38
SPEAKER_03: And I was like, it's a weird thing to say.
55:40
SPEAKER_03: I've never said that.
55:42
SPEAKER_03: I've never...
55:43
SPEAKER_03: But I was like, oh my God, yes.
55:45
SPEAKER_03: And I don't know if I would call them angels.
55:47
SPEAKER_03: That word feels a little loaded to me.
55:49
SPEAKER_03: But I have really great humans at every step of my life have stepped in and said,
55:56
SPEAKER_03: here, let me help you.
55:59
SPEAKER_03: And literally like everything in my life,
56:03
SPEAKER_03: my book deal is entirely because I told that super generous creative friend
56:08
SPEAKER_03: that I was talking about,
56:09
SPEAKER_03: My idea and then I wanted to write a book and she was like,
56:12
SPEAKER_03: yeah, you should do that.
56:13
SPEAKER_03: She was like, you should write a proposal.
56:16
SPEAKER_03: And so I like made up how you write a book proposal.
56:18
SPEAKER_03: Oh my God.
56:19
SPEAKER_03: Not good.
56:21
SPEAKER_03: And she was like, let me send this to this one editor I know.
56:24
SPEAKER_03: And that editor was like, I like this idea.
56:27
SPEAKER_03: I like you.
56:28
SPEAKER_03: This is a terrible proposal.
56:30
SPEAKER_03: Amazing.
56:31
SPEAKER_03: She was so nice about it.
56:32
SPEAKER_03: She wouldn't say it that way, but that was the endocrine.
56:34
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
56:34
SPEAKER_03: She was like,
56:35
SPEAKER_03: go to this lady and she'll teach you how to write a proper proposal and
56:38
SPEAKER_03: then send it back to me.
56:40
SPEAKER_03: I went to that woman, hired her, Rochelle Fredson.
56:43
SPEAKER_03: She taught me how to write a proposal.
56:44
SPEAKER_03: The proposal took it back to Diana Ventimiglia,
56:47
SPEAKER_03: the publisher, who was moving from Sounds True to Hachette to Grand Central Balance.
56:52
SPEAKER_03: And she was like, this is like, got it.
56:56
SPEAKER_03: And then I didn't really hear from her, didn't hear from her, didn't hear from her.
56:59
SPEAKER_03: It was super quiet.
57:00
SPEAKER_03: And then I was like, wait, I think I didn't write the right proposal for the right book.
57:05
SPEAKER_03: I was like, stay tuned.
57:06
SPEAKER_03: I'm going to go write something different now.
57:08
SPEAKER_03: I wrote a third proposal.
57:10
SPEAKER_03: These posts are like 90 pages.
57:12
SPEAKER_03: A different book?
57:13
SPEAKER_03: 90 pages?
57:14
SPEAKER_03: Different book.
57:15
SPEAKER_03: Send it to her a third time.
57:19
SPEAKER_03: That one she read right away.
57:20
SPEAKER_03: We talked right away and she's like, I'm pitching it to my name now.
57:23
SPEAKER_03: And I have no agent.
57:26
SPEAKER_03: I have a book deal with a big five publisher.
57:29
SPEAKER_03: Literally...
57:31
SPEAKER_03: It's because though, I mean,
57:32
SPEAKER_03: Diana was amazing and Diana is such a generous, but she's doing her job, right?
57:38
SPEAKER_03: Like she's out to look for talent.
57:40
SPEAKER_03: Right.
57:41
SPEAKER_03: But I only knew the right person because I had cultivated a circle of great people
57:47
SPEAKER_03: and she already loved Kara.
57:49
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
57:50
SPEAKER_03: She trusted her.
57:51
SPEAKER_03: Kara loved me.
57:52
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
57:53
SPEAKER_03: Diana loved Kara.
57:54
SPEAKER_03: Now, how did Kara meet Diana?
57:56
SPEAKER_03: Well, through another friend.
57:57
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
57:58
SPEAKER_03: Katie, who had worked with Diana and because she loved Katie, she already loved Kara.
58:04
SPEAKER_03: So that's it.
58:05
SPEAKER_03: There's all these stories I feel like in history
58:06
SPEAKER_03: of like all these successful artists who all hung out together
58:09
SPEAKER_03: and all these successful writers who
58:11
SPEAKER_03: all hung out together and they're all besties
58:13
SPEAKER_03: and they all went to college together and they were roommates.
58:16
SPEAKER_03: And you're like, are they really that much more talented than everyone else?
58:19
SPEAKER_03: They lift each other.
58:21
SPEAKER_03: Or is it just that they were together and they lift each other up?
58:24
SPEAKER_02: Well, I felt that way with men.
58:25
SPEAKER_02: So like as an actor, like Adam Sandler, right?
58:28
SPEAKER_02: Oh my God.
58:29
SPEAKER_02: He puts all of his best friends in all of his movies,
58:32
SPEAKER_02: whether it's small roles, all of his movies, like it's always repeat people.
58:37
SPEAKER_02: He wants to work with the same people, the same crew, the same actors.
58:40
SPEAKER_02: He wants to work with his best friend.
58:43
SPEAKER_02: He's funny.
58:43
SPEAKER_02: You come in...
58:45
SPEAKER_02: He's an uplifter.
58:46
SPEAKER_02: And the Judd Apatow world, that comedy world, same thing.
58:50
SPEAKER_02: And I'm not saying it doesn't work with women.
58:53
SPEAKER_02: Amy Schumer does that.
58:54
SPEAKER_02: She uses the same people and she seems to be an uplifter.
58:57
SPEAKER_03: Again, I don't know any of these people personally, so don't want to get mad at me.
59:01
SPEAKER_02: But I found that I was seeing it as I was a younger actor.
59:06
SPEAKER_02: It's so interesting.
59:07
SPEAKER_02: All the men...
59:09
SPEAKER_02: Are lifting each other up.
59:10
SPEAKER_02: Like, oh, we went to NYU together.
59:11
SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm thinking of David Wayne and What Had American Summer.
59:15
SPEAKER_02: Those three guys, they all uplifted.
59:17
SPEAKER_02: They all kept working.
59:19
SPEAKER_02: The state people, the this people, the UCB people.
59:23
SPEAKER_02: But then I couldn't find it in women when I was younger.
59:26
SPEAKER_02: I'm not saying now, but it is not as common.
59:30
SPEAKER_02: And that makes me sad.
59:32
SPEAKER_03: Maybe too,
59:33
SPEAKER_03: we need...
59:34
SPEAKER_03: And I'm only speaking of the entertainment industry, not
59:36
SPEAKER_02: other industries.
59:37
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
59:37
SPEAKER_03: Well, but I think too,
59:39
SPEAKER_03: now that you're making,
59:40
SPEAKER_03: you're really making me think about this too,
59:41
SPEAKER_03: that maybe like we need this explicit agreement in order to give generously,
59:47
SPEAKER_03: that we need to believe that our needs will be met.
59:50
SPEAKER_03: Otherwise, like we do go into that scarcity mindset.
59:55
SPEAKER_03: And we start to feel like,
59:56
SPEAKER_03: oh, I don't have anything to offer or I don't, I'm going to go hungry.
1:00:01
SPEAKER_03: So I better not give what I have.
1:00:03
SPEAKER_03: Is it a perspective change?
1:00:05
SPEAKER_03: You know what it is too?
1:00:06
SPEAKER_03: I think it's a belief change.
1:00:07
SPEAKER_02: Maybe because I've heard so many young people I listen to a lot of podcasts
1:00:12
SPEAKER_02: about actors and their story or interviews.
1:00:14
SPEAKER_02: And it's always the men that are like, yeah, I was just at the club and whatever.
1:00:19
SPEAKER_02: And then I met this guy and he was like, come be in my men.
1:00:22
SPEAKER_02: And then I became a movie star.
1:00:24
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, what?
1:00:26
SPEAKER_02: I'm not to say it doesn't happen for women.
1:00:28
SPEAKER_02: But again,
1:00:29
SPEAKER_02: it feels like,
1:00:29
SPEAKER_02: as you said,
1:00:30
SPEAKER_02: the men don't have that scarcity mindset where they're just like,
1:00:33
SPEAKER_02: oh, hey, you're cool.
1:00:34
SPEAKER_02: You want to come be in my movie?
1:00:35
SPEAKER_02: Oh, you've never done anything?
1:00:36
SPEAKER_02: I don't know anything about you, but you just seem cool.
1:00:39
SPEAKER_02: That's like what I want.
1:00:40
SPEAKER_02: And maybe as you said, like
1:00:41
SPEAKER_03: I have to create it.
1:00:42
SPEAKER_03: I have to be the change.
1:00:44
SPEAKER_03: You have to be it.
1:00:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:00:46
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:00:46
SPEAKER_03: Be the change.
1:00:47
SPEAKER_03: Be the change.
1:00:49
SPEAKER_02: Wait, you never answered how you actually started Uplifters.
1:00:52
SPEAKER_02: Like how'd you get the title?
1:00:53
SPEAKER_02: I know you're an uplifter, but where did the, where did it begin?
1:00:57
SPEAKER_03: So the title actually really did kind of come because I did a lot of market research
1:01:03
SPEAKER_03: and asked people like, what is the essence of me?
1:01:06
SPEAKER_03: And people were like, you're so uplifting.
1:01:08
SPEAKER_03: Brilliant though.
1:01:10
SPEAKER_03: I don't think I really understood.
1:01:11
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I'm still every day figuring out more about what this means and what's needed.
1:01:18
SPEAKER_03: So the original concept was,
1:01:21
SPEAKER_03: I felt like there were so many women who were out giving everything to everyone
1:01:27
SPEAKER_03: and were just so wildly generous and nobody was looking out for them.
1:01:33
SPEAKER_03: And I was like, let's tell their stories.
1:01:35
SPEAKER_03: And...
1:01:36
SPEAKER_03: Talk about how they take care of themselves.
1:01:40
SPEAKER_03: And the truth is what really needed to happen,
1:01:42
SPEAKER_03: I think, is that we needed to take care of each other.
1:01:44
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:01:45
SPEAKER_03: And that sort of commune style.
1:01:47
SPEAKER_03: Commune style, mom-mune or whatever.
1:01:49
SPEAKER_03: Oh my God, yes.
1:01:50
SPEAKER_02: I just heard that word, a mom-mune.
1:01:52
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I read about it last week too.
1:01:54
SPEAKER_02: Could we call it a woman-mune?
1:01:56
SPEAKER_02: I don't know how to say it because you don't have to be a mom, but you know what I mean.
1:02:00
SPEAKER_02: A women-mune, women-mune.
1:02:03
SPEAKER_03: TM, TM.
1:02:04
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
1:02:05
SPEAKER_03: But I like guys too.
1:02:05
SPEAKER_03: I mean, like my husband is the most uplifting person I know.
1:02:08
SPEAKER_02: No, guys are so uplifting, but we need to like, it's like be like a man.
1:02:13
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
1:02:14
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:02:14
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:02:14
SPEAKER_03: In a lot of ways,
1:02:16
SPEAKER_03: it's not operating from that place of scarcity and fear,
1:02:20
SPEAKER_03: which a lot of men have,
1:02:22
SPEAKER_03: but women are just really ingrained with,
1:02:25
SPEAKER_03: from the very beginning, as you said, the sense of competition and identity.
1:02:29
SPEAKER_03: You're making the change, which I love.
1:02:32
SPEAKER_03: Making the change.
1:02:34
SPEAKER_03: Pretty fun.
1:02:35
SPEAKER_02: I keep thinking of the word virus, which is a negative thing.
1:02:37
SPEAKER_02: But what is the positive thing of a virus where you spread it?
1:02:41
SPEAKER_03: Contagion.
1:02:42
SPEAKER_03: Positive.
1:02:42
SPEAKER_02: Isn't that bad?
1:02:43
SPEAKER_03: Contagion is good.
1:02:45
SPEAKER_02: It is?
1:02:45
SPEAKER_02: Contagion.
1:02:46
SPEAKER_03: Like you talk about idea contagion, right?
1:02:48
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
1:02:48
SPEAKER_03: Can be good or bad.
1:02:49
SPEAKER_03: Depends on what the idea is.
1:02:51
SPEAKER_03: A virality.
1:02:52
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:02:53
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:02:54
SPEAKER_03: I would like to start a movement of people who believe... You have.
1:02:59
SPEAKER_03: ...That there is good in the world...
1:03:02
SPEAKER_03: And that we can all take care of each other.
1:03:05
SPEAKER_03: And like the most challenging political conversations I've had have been ones
1:03:09
SPEAKER_03: where it's like, this is my pie.
1:03:11
SPEAKER_03: And if anybody eats it, I will go hungry.
1:03:14
SPEAKER_03: And so it's sort of a theme that goes across everything
1:03:16
SPEAKER_03: that I do is this like ever increasing belief.
1:03:21
SPEAKER_03: Because it's not like I've always had this, right?
1:03:22
SPEAKER_03: Like my parents were so poor when I was little that my mom literally had to...
1:03:28
SPEAKER_03: Look for coins on the street to find enough money to buy a can of condensed milk
1:03:34
SPEAKER_03: to fuel her body with a baby in it.
1:03:38
SPEAKER_03: They were very poor.
1:03:39
SPEAKER_03: My father was super abusive.
1:03:42
SPEAKER_03: It's not like I had this like And so it's not like it's a thing that I'm like immune to.
1:04:05
SPEAKER_03: But the more I act like an abundant person,
1:04:09
SPEAKER_03: I hate using that word because it sounds so like woo-woo,
1:04:13
SPEAKER_03: but the more I believe the world is abundant, the more it is.
1:04:18
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:04:20
SPEAKER_02: It's hard when you're in that dark place because I know
1:04:22
SPEAKER_02: as someone who's battled depression and anxiety...
1:04:25
SPEAKER_02: And now that I'm out of it and I'm like, yeah, it's perspective and change your mind.
1:04:29
SPEAKER_02: But when I was in the darkness and people were like, it's how you think.
1:04:32
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, shut up.
1:04:33
SPEAKER_02: Shut up.
1:04:34
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:04:34
SPEAKER_02: But it is.
1:04:35
SPEAKER_02: And that's why when I see other people in a space,
1:04:38
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, only they can get out of it as much as I want to help them.
1:04:43
SPEAKER_02: I can do my best in supporting them.
1:04:45
SPEAKER_02: But at the end of the day, I went to coaches.
1:04:47
SPEAKER_02: I went to therapists who said all the right things, but I was so within myself.
1:04:54
SPEAKER_03: I think it comes down to tiny steps, right?
1:04:56
SPEAKER_03: Like doing really, really tiny things to care for ourselves and like show up for ourselves.
1:05:02
SPEAKER_02: I also think stories are really powerful antidote to that.
1:05:05
SPEAKER_03: But like if you're around other people who have been through hardship and come
1:05:09
SPEAKER_03: through it or you read stories of it.
1:05:11
SPEAKER_03: I only want to be with those people.
1:05:14
SPEAKER_03: But you read stories of people who have done big,
1:05:18
SPEAKER_03: brave things or who have endured unimaginable loss.
1:05:23
SPEAKER_03: And it does help put things in perspective and it does help to ship that narrative
1:05:27
SPEAKER_03: that feels like it's pervasive.
1:05:28
SPEAKER_03: It's like everything sucks.
1:05:30
SPEAKER_03: Everyone's out to get each other.
1:05:31
SPEAKER_03: It doesn't help you.
1:05:33
SPEAKER_03: That for me is the recipe, stories, science, and tiny actions.
1:05:37
SPEAKER_03: Ooh, love that.
1:05:39
SPEAKER_02: Okay, I want to ask you a question that I ask everyone on my podcast.
1:05:43
SPEAKER_02: And then,
1:05:43
SPEAKER_02: oh wait,
1:05:44
SPEAKER_02: I do want to ask about your children's book because it sounds so interesting to me.
1:05:47
SPEAKER_02: The Worried Walrus.
1:05:49
SPEAKER_03: Wally, The Worried Walrus, it's a whole series of children's books.
1:05:53
SPEAKER_03: They publish through the amazing bilingual app Encanto.
1:05:56
SPEAKER_03: I don't speak Spanish, so they translated it.
1:05:59
SPEAKER_03: I like how you said Encanto.
1:06:02
SPEAKER_03: My friend Susie Jaramillo is the founder of the company and like they're doing such big stuff.
1:06:07
SPEAKER_03: So the Canticos brand, Scalatina, all of that is her work.
1:06:12
SPEAKER_03: And she's really one of the most extraordinary creative minds,
1:06:18
SPEAKER_03: business leaders,
1:06:20
SPEAKER_03: most generous humans, like somebody I just adore and admire and feel like.
1:06:26
SPEAKER_03: I am so fortunate to have as my friend in every way.
1:06:31
SPEAKER_03: And so, yeah,
1:06:31
SPEAKER_03: I was at the time and story for another day,
1:06:34
SPEAKER_03: but my kids were both struggling with anxiety hugely.
1:06:39
SPEAKER_03: We were in the pandemic still, they were home and we wrote the books together.
1:06:47
SPEAKER_03: I had been laid off.
1:06:48
SPEAKER_03: It was the first project I did after getting laid off.
1:06:50
SPEAKER_03: They were like, you want to write a book?
1:06:51
SPEAKER_03: And I was like, about what?
1:06:52
SPEAKER_03: And you had never written a children's book, right?
1:06:55
SPEAKER_03: I'd never written a children's book.
1:06:56
SPEAKER_03: And I wrote it with the girls about the anxiety.
1:07:00
SPEAKER_03: I think they named him.
1:07:02
SPEAKER_03: And thanks to Susie and her storytelling gifts and teaching, I felt like I learned so much.
1:07:10
SPEAKER_03: I'm really, really proud of those books.
1:07:11
SPEAKER_03: There's eight of them in the series, I think.
1:07:14
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
1:07:15
SPEAKER_02: What just struck me was that in this description,
1:07:18
SPEAKER_02: I think it was on your website,
1:07:19
SPEAKER_02: this idea that as parents and adults tell kids,
1:07:22
SPEAKER_02: we'll just be happy and not to feel all these feelings.
1:07:26
SPEAKER_02: And then when they have these overwhelming feelings, we kind of just shut them down.
1:07:30
SPEAKER_02: And then kids don't know how to confront them.
1:07:33
SPEAKER_02: And I think that's what anxiety and I think anxiety,
1:07:35
SPEAKER_02: I think is one of the hardest emotions to go through because when we get it,
1:07:40
SPEAKER_02: we want so desperately for it to go away.
1:07:42
SPEAKER_02: So we're like, I'm not, I don't want to be anxious.
1:07:44
SPEAKER_02: And then you're, you spiral and you get more anxious.
1:07:46
SPEAKER_02: So I love this idea,
1:07:47
SPEAKER_02: especially with kids that they can go to a book or to a place that says like,
1:07:53
SPEAKER_02: it's okay.
1:07:53
SPEAKER_02: You have these big feelings.
1:07:55
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, work through them.
1:07:57
SPEAKER_02: So, and this idea of just being happy, I hate toxic positivity.
1:08:01
SPEAKER_02: Such a waste of energy.
1:08:03
SPEAKER_03: We can uplift, but let's not be toxic and fake about it.
1:08:06
SPEAKER_03: Right.
1:08:07
SPEAKER_03: Well, like going back to this whole question we were talking about earlier,
1:08:11
SPEAKER_03: if you ignore this stuff and judge yourself, it just gets bigger.
1:08:16
SPEAKER_02: Okay, let me ask, yeah,
1:08:17
SPEAKER_02: the question I ask everyone on my pod is,
1:08:21
SPEAKER_02: do you think rejection gets easier than As you get older.
1:08:26
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
1:08:27
SPEAKER_03: I think rejection gets easier as you get more of it.
1:08:32
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
1:08:33
SPEAKER_03: So actually the goal is, and so again, I'm trying to behavioral science.
1:08:37
SPEAKER_03: And so I'm going to always turn to that as the foundation of my work.
1:08:43
SPEAKER_03: But this is true with everything.
1:08:46
SPEAKER_03: The more you do the thing, the easier it gets.
1:08:49
SPEAKER_03: No one's ever said that.
1:08:51
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
1:08:51
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's the truth.
1:08:53
SPEAKER_03: And so that's where like the thresholding, right?
1:08:55
SPEAKER_03: So like what feels like rejection,
1:08:58
SPEAKER_03: the more you do it,
1:09:00
SPEAKER_03: it takes a lot more to feel like rejection because you've gotten acclimated to
1:09:05
SPEAKER_03: that altitude of rejection and you're like, Moving on.
1:09:08
SPEAKER_03: And is it going to happen the first time?
1:09:10
SPEAKER_03: Maybe not.
1:09:10
SPEAKER_03: Is it going to happen the 50th time?
1:09:12
SPEAKER_03: Maybe.
1:09:12
SPEAKER_03: It's a game of numbers, like really having to get in there.
1:09:16
SPEAKER_03: And I think that's what you're doing with the show.
1:09:17
SPEAKER_03: I think that's clearly what you're allowed to do with your life.
1:09:20
SPEAKER_03: And I think like the way to get there from a behavioral lens is to set instead
1:09:24
SPEAKER_03: of outcome goals, set behavioral goals.
1:09:26
SPEAKER_03: So I'm going to set myself up to get rejected 10 times this month.
1:09:29
SPEAKER_03: How do you deal with rejection now?
1:09:31
SPEAKER_02: Like currently?
1:09:32
SPEAKER_02: It's like... Or do you not get rejected?
1:09:35
SPEAKER_03: Right.
1:09:35
SPEAKER_03: Right.
1:09:35
SPEAKER_03: Right.
1:09:57
SPEAKER_02: Not cool celebrities, not cool.
1:10:00
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I
1:10:01
SPEAKER_03: get it.
1:10:01
SPEAKER_03: It's kind of a loaded idea.
1:10:03
SPEAKER_03: Like, I don't know, quality positivity, whatever.
1:10:06
SPEAKER_03: So many stories.
1:10:07
SPEAKER_03: But then when it was my own thing, right?
1:10:10
SPEAKER_03: Like that's a little more personal.
1:10:11
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:10:12
SPEAKER_03: But I also think that if I'm not getting rejection, I'm probably not being very brave.
1:10:16
SPEAKER_03: So healthy.
1:10:17
SPEAKER_03: So when I'm getting a bunch of yeses,
1:10:19
SPEAKER_03: that to me is actually the more worrisome sign because it means I'm like in a rut.
1:10:23
SPEAKER_03: I'm stuck at the same altitude.
1:10:24
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:10:26
SPEAKER_03: And I'm doing only easy things and I want to be growing.
1:10:29
SPEAKER_03: Like that's where I feel excited and energized.
1:10:32
SPEAKER_03: So like the goal is to get more no's.
1:10:35
SPEAKER_02: Whoa, this is blowing my mind.
1:10:39
SPEAKER_02: Wow, this idea that if you're getting a bunch of yeses,
1:10:42
SPEAKER_02: you're in a standstill, like you feel like you're plateauing.
1:10:45
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:10:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because you're saying once you get that no,
1:10:48
SPEAKER_02: you regroup and kind of change course and that helps you grow.
1:10:52
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:10:53
SPEAKER_03: You're blowing my mind.
1:10:55
SPEAKER_03: Like that's where we learn.
1:10:56
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:10:56
SPEAKER_03: Is that the threshold?
1:10:57
SPEAKER_03: Every time I get a no, I'm going to remind myself of that.
1:11:00
SPEAKER_03: That was the goal.
1:11:01
SPEAKER_03: I really think just saying to yourself, that was the goal.
1:11:05
SPEAKER_03: Because your brain has been telling you for the last 30 years that that's something to avoid.
1:11:12
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:11:13
SPEAKER_03: And so that's going to limit your courage and your capacity to put yourself out there.
1:11:18
SPEAKER_03: Oh, what a beautiful gift.
1:11:19
SPEAKER_03: You've given me so many gifts in this podcast.
1:11:21
SPEAKER_03: See, you ask such good questions.
1:11:23
SPEAKER_03: Oh, thank you.
1:11:24
SPEAKER_03: You are so, like, it's so clear that you are so brave and so courageous.
1:11:31
SPEAKER_03: Like, you are vulnerable.
1:11:33
SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
1:11:34
SPEAKER_03: And of course,
1:11:35
SPEAKER_03: you're funny and,
1:11:36
SPEAKER_03: you know,
1:11:36
SPEAKER_03: you have all sorts of other great talents and you have a cool voice and like,
1:11:39
SPEAKER_03: we could go on and on about that obvious stuff, but...
1:11:43
SPEAKER_03: Like you're really freaking brave.
1:11:45
SPEAKER_03: And I just don't think you're giving yourself credit for how courageous you are.
1:11:49
SPEAKER_03: Probably not.
1:11:50
SPEAKER_03: And how tolerant you are.
1:11:51
SPEAKER_03: Like my daughter has OCD.
1:11:53
SPEAKER_03: And so like with OCD, what do you do?
1:11:56
SPEAKER_03: You go through exposure therapy.
1:11:58
SPEAKER_03: Oh, really?
1:11:58
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
1:11:59
SPEAKER_03: And like that is the most, that's the definitive treatment for it.
1:12:03
SPEAKER_03: And so like this show is exposure therapy for you.
1:12:07
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it totally is.
1:12:09
SPEAKER_03: And going on Instagram today and saying,
1:12:14
SPEAKER_03: hey, everybody, this is so awkward for me, but a guest dared me to do this today.
1:12:18
SPEAKER_03: So I promised Aransas that I would come on here and say,
1:12:23
SPEAKER_03: please follow me because it would mean so much to me.
1:12:25
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:12:26
SPEAKER_03: Then you like...
1:12:27
SPEAKER_03: You're doing the thing and people will follow.
1:12:30
SPEAKER_03: And people will share it.
1:12:31
SPEAKER_03: And you just have to tell them exactly what you want.
1:12:33
SPEAKER_03: Like, follow, subscribe and share.
1:12:35
SPEAKER_03: And you can say it just like that and be like, ha ha, that was so awkward.
1:12:38
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:12:38
SPEAKER_03: Right?
1:12:39
SPEAKER_03: Because that's all any of us are looking for is like honesty.
1:12:42
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:12:43
SPEAKER_02: No, it's true.
1:12:44
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:12:44
SPEAKER_02: Like, what are you going to get mad at me for being honest?
1:12:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:12:48
SPEAKER_02: And that's what I look for in others.
1:12:49
SPEAKER_02: For being human.
1:12:50
SPEAKER_03: Ew.
1:12:51
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:12:51
SPEAKER_03: Right.
1:12:52
SPEAKER_03: It's what you look for.
1:12:53
SPEAKER_03: So do I think we get braver or more?
1:12:56
SPEAKER_03: Do I think rejection matters less as we age only because we've got more practice, hopefully?
1:13:01
SPEAKER_03: The question I ask everyone on my show.
1:13:04
SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.
1:13:05
SPEAKER_03: And I think,
1:13:06
SPEAKER_03: you know,
1:13:06
SPEAKER_03: this is coming because we've like spent the whole episode talking about it.
1:13:11
SPEAKER_03: How can we, as a community of people who love to lift up others, how can we lift you up, Jess?
1:13:19
SPEAKER_03: Is it a one?
1:13:20
SPEAKER_03: Is it a one-off?
1:13:20
SPEAKER_03: No, no.
1:13:22
SPEAKER_03: Tell us your dreams, your hopes.
1:13:24
SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh.
1:13:25
SPEAKER_03: Your desires.
1:13:25
SPEAKER_02: Now that I feel emotionally so naked right now and like vulnerable, how can we uplift me?
1:13:33
SPEAKER_02: Well, I guess listen to my podcast, support me in that way.
1:13:38
SPEAKER_02: This is obviously a huge venture.
1:13:41
SPEAKER_02: I've been trying to start a podcast for eight years and talk about rejection.
1:13:45
SPEAKER_02: I had asked, I felt that a podcast had to be two hosts.
1:13:49
SPEAKER_02: I was convinced that I wasn't interesting enough and that the only way I could start
1:13:54
SPEAKER_02: a podcast was with someone else.
1:13:57
SPEAKER_02: And I asked so many friends, friends, really good friends, even my best friend.
1:14:04
SPEAKER_03: No.
1:14:05
SPEAKER_02: I was told no by everyone.
1:14:07
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, okay, I'll do a parenting podcast.
1:14:09
SPEAKER_02: I'll do this podcast.
1:14:10
SPEAKER_02: No, no, no.
1:14:12
SPEAKER_02: Eight years later, I saw Michelle and she was like, no, you're going to start it on your own.
1:14:16
SPEAKER_02: I was like, I am?
1:14:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you don't need someone else.
1:14:19
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I guess I want to be uplifted in that way of people listening to my show.
1:14:24
SPEAKER_02: I'm here to normalize rejection and grow from it and connect to people.
1:14:30
SPEAKER_02: And that's a big one.
1:14:32
SPEAKER_02: And I mean,
1:14:34
SPEAKER_02: I have a few projects in the works,
1:14:35
SPEAKER_02: but nothing like I can say out loud now, but just support.
1:14:39
SPEAKER_02: Just support and reach out to me.
1:14:41
SPEAKER_02: If you DM me, I'll DM you back.
1:14:43
SPEAKER_02: And if you want to connect to me, I'd love to be connected to you.
1:14:47
SPEAKER_02: And I've always want to meet more creatives.
1:14:50
SPEAKER_02: And if you want to be on the pod and you have a story, DM me.
1:14:55
SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
1:14:55
SPEAKER_02: Is that good enough?
1:14:56
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:14:57
SPEAKER_02: See how awkward I am?
1:14:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:14:59
SPEAKER_02: And in my head, I'm like, I have so many things I want.
1:15:01
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I think you gave us all a bunch of really easy, easy things, right?
1:15:05
SPEAKER_03: Like none of those cost us anything.
1:15:07
SPEAKER_03: They might take us two seconds.
1:15:09
SPEAKER_02: Oh, I have another one.
1:15:09
SPEAKER_03: This is hard.
1:15:10
SPEAKER_03: This is a challenge.
1:15:12
SPEAKER_02: I have a TV show, I think three or four movies.
1:15:17
SPEAKER_02: I want to make something.
1:15:19
SPEAKER_02: That's something I can share publicly.
1:15:23
SPEAKER_02: I want to either make a short film, a pilot, something that's attainable.
1:15:26
SPEAKER_02: I think a feature might be too hard at this point.
1:15:28
SPEAKER_02: Not to say that I shouldn't set big goals.
1:15:31
SPEAKER_02: But I need to be connected to people in the film business because I live in Miami.
1:15:34
SPEAKER_02: So I don't live in New York anymore.
1:15:36
SPEAKER_02: And so it's harder to reach those people.
1:15:38
SPEAKER_02: But I went to the Miami Film Fest and there is a huge,
1:15:41
SPEAKER_02: especially the Latin community, amazing filmmakers here.
1:15:45
SPEAKER_02: And somehow I need to get connected to them.
1:15:48
SPEAKER_02: So if there's some way to connect me to anyone local in South Florida, I want to...
1:15:53
SPEAKER_02: I do.
1:15:54
SPEAKER_02: I want to go back into...
1:15:56
SPEAKER_02: Writing for film, acting in film, being in film because as you know, it's magic.
1:16:01
SPEAKER_02: Being on set is magic.
1:16:03
SPEAKER_02: When it's the right people, supportive people.
1:16:06
SPEAKER_02: And now as I'm older, I know that I want to create a set that's uplifters.
1:16:11
SPEAKER_02: That all the crew are happy to be there.
1:16:12
SPEAKER_02: That the cast is happy to be there.
1:16:14
SPEAKER_02: And even if it's 12-hour shoot and it's the last hour and we're exhausted,
1:16:18
SPEAKER_02: we're like, we are so grateful to be here.
1:16:22
SPEAKER_02: So that is something in my future that I do really want because...
1:16:27
SPEAKER_02: Although the business is painful sometimes, it's a magic place for me.
1:16:32
SPEAKER_02: It's a happy place for me.
1:16:33
SPEAKER_02: I love that.
1:16:34
SPEAKER_03: Is that good?
1:16:35
SPEAKER_03: Such a great answer.
1:16:36
SPEAKER_03: And I want to just unpack it for just a second.
1:16:38
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
1:16:38
SPEAKER_02: It was too much now.
1:16:40
SPEAKER_03: No, no.
1:16:41
SPEAKER_03: I think what I watched you do was make a vague ask initially.
1:16:46
SPEAKER_03: I mean, not the fault, like, follow, subscribe.
1:16:48
SPEAKER_03: That's all clear.
1:16:49
SPEAKER_03: We know what to do.
1:16:51
SPEAKER_02: Introduce me to somebody who can help me make a movie.
1:16:54
SPEAKER_03: What?
1:16:55
SPEAKER_03: I don't know what to do with that.
1:16:56
SPEAKER_03: Even as a super well-connected person, I don't know what to do with it.
1:17:00
SPEAKER_03: Help me meet people in the Miami area who are in the film industry.
1:17:05
SPEAKER_03: It got so much clearer.
1:17:07
SPEAKER_03: And so Kara and I call that precision manifesting.
1:17:11
SPEAKER_03: And literally,
1:17:12
SPEAKER_03: it is about getting so specific about what it is we are trying to do
1:17:17
SPEAKER_03: because you have the clear vision, right?
1:17:19
SPEAKER_03: Like I can see now what your set looks like.
1:17:22
SPEAKER_03: And you, it's not people in LA.
1:17:25
SPEAKER_03: You want to meet,
1:17:25
SPEAKER_03: maybe someday you want to meet people in LA,
1:17:27
SPEAKER_03: but right now what you want to do is you want to meet people locally to
1:17:29
SPEAKER_03: where you are.
1:17:30
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
1:17:31
SPEAKER_03: So it just makes it so much easier for people to help us
1:17:33
SPEAKER_03: when we're really actually honest and clear about what we want.
1:17:36
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:17:37
SPEAKER_03: And that's how it happens.
1:17:38
SPEAKER_02: And allow myself to...
1:17:40
SPEAKER_03: To want it.
1:17:41
SPEAKER_03: Ask that.
1:17:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:17:42
SPEAKER_03: Yep.
1:17:43
SPEAKER_03: Yep.
1:17:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because you're right.
1:17:44
SPEAKER_02: I did.
1:17:44
SPEAKER_02: And that's why I was like,
1:17:45
SPEAKER_02: let me go for a second time because the first... That didn't feel inauthentic.
1:17:50
SPEAKER_02: It's true.
1:17:51
SPEAKER_02: Like, don't fucking follow me because I need some help.
1:17:54
SPEAKER_02: But the dreamer in me is like,
1:18:00
SPEAKER_02: I want to meet more creatives and I eventually want to go back to film and TV
1:18:04
SPEAKER_02: and let's find a way.
1:18:07
SPEAKER_03: And at least I just put it out in the universe, even if no one can
1:18:10
SPEAKER_02: help me.
1:18:12
SPEAKER_03: But they will.
1:18:12
SPEAKER_03: You did.
1:18:12
SPEAKER_03: You made it more real by saying it.
1:18:15
SPEAKER_03: And you now are going to be more tuned in to those people in your everyday life.
1:18:22
SPEAKER_03: So like this one ask is one thing and maybe somebody will listen to it.
1:18:26
SPEAKER_03: Maybe somebody will read the show notes and help.
1:18:30
SPEAKER_03: But also the person most likely to find these people is you because you're the one in Miami.
1:18:36
SPEAKER_03: So now you're going to say to people in Miami,
1:18:39
SPEAKER_03: I'm looking to meet other people in the film industry here in Miami.
1:18:42
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:18:43
SPEAKER_03: I really want to do a project locally.
1:18:44
SPEAKER_03: And people are going to be like, oh, cool.
1:18:46
SPEAKER_03: She doesn't want to just do LA projects.
1:18:48
SPEAKER_03: She wants to do a local project.
1:18:50
SPEAKER_01: And that's how it's going to happen.
1:18:52
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:18:53
SPEAKER_03: My precision manifesting right now is that I want to interview Jane Polly this year.
1:18:58
SPEAKER_03: And then next year after my book comes out, I want her to interview me for CBS Sunday Morning.
1:19:05
SPEAKER_03: And it's going to be so cute.
1:19:07
SPEAKER_03: And so, because she was like my icon when I was a little girl.
1:19:11
SPEAKER_03: Like that's what I wanted to do when I grew up was be Jane Polly.
1:19:14
SPEAKER_03: And so really like, I'll just start this podcast.
1:19:16
SPEAKER_03: I was like, I'm going to go after my little Jane Polly dream.
1:19:19
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
1:19:21
SPEAKER_03: And you probably don't even know who she is because...
1:19:23
SPEAKER_03: I don't.
1:19:24
SPEAKER_03: I'm sorry.
1:19:24
SPEAKER_03: No, it's fine.
1:19:25
SPEAKER_02: I know CBS Sunday Morning.
1:19:26
SPEAKER_02: Sunday Morning.
1:19:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:19:27
SPEAKER_02: She hosts that.
1:19:28
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:19:29
SPEAKER_03: Oh, I know who she is.
1:19:30
SPEAKER_03: I just didn't know her name.
1:19:31
SPEAKER_03: She used to host like the Today Show or something when I was little.
1:19:34
SPEAKER_03: She was like OG Katie Couric.
1:19:35
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
1:19:35
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
1:19:36
SPEAKER_03: But like super warm and kind and wrote a book about exactly what I wrote a book
1:19:41
SPEAKER_03: about, but for the generation before me.
1:19:45
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
1:19:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:19:46
SPEAKER_02: Well, it's kismet.
1:19:47
SPEAKER_02: It's meant to be.
1:19:47
SPEAKER_02: It's kismet.
1:19:48
SPEAKER_03: It's meant to be.
1:19:49
SPEAKER_03: And yeah, I like, I told my publisher, I was like, so how do we talk to her?
1:19:53
SPEAKER_03: And my husband, how do we?
1:19:54
SPEAKER_03: So now everybody knows I want to talk to her and I will.
1:19:57
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
1:19:58
SPEAKER_03: I love that.
1:19:59
SPEAKER_03: And like, that's how it happens.
1:20:00
SPEAKER_03: We get, the more specific we get, Karen,
1:20:03
SPEAKER_03: I talk about it as Queen Latifah,
1:20:05
SPEAKER_03: because there was this guy that she was working with who like had a project
1:20:09
SPEAKER_03: and all he wanted was Queen Latifah.
1:20:11
SPEAKER_03: And we were like, oh my God, this makes the assignment so easy.
1:20:13
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:20:14
SPEAKER_03: Because if he had just said,
1:20:16
SPEAKER_03: I want a tall, powerful black woman, we would have been like, well, do I not?
1:20:23
SPEAKER_03: Right.
1:20:24
SPEAKER_03: But then he was like, I want Queen Latifah.
1:20:27
SPEAKER_03: And we were like, great.
1:20:29
SPEAKER_03: Now we know what to do.
1:20:29
SPEAKER_03: We know the assignment.
1:20:31
SPEAKER_03: So it's like, give us the assignment.
1:20:33
SPEAKER_02: I like that.
1:20:33
SPEAKER_02: But that takes you being honest.
1:20:35
SPEAKER_02: That's so helpful though to remember to get specific.
1:20:38
SPEAKER_02: Because I think, as you said...
1:20:40
SPEAKER_02: Naturally, we're a little bit... Or I'm uncomfortable asking for what I want.
1:20:43
SPEAKER_02: And so it's easier to be vague, to be like, yeah, so I just want like, you know, someone to...
1:20:48
SPEAKER_02: Versus no, what is it specifically?
1:20:51
SPEAKER_02: And then someone can actually help because they'll go,
1:20:54
SPEAKER_02: oh, okay, I know someone in Miami who did whatever it is.
1:20:58
SPEAKER_02: So I like that.
1:20:59
SPEAKER_03: So you said precision manifesting.
1:21:02
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:21:03
SPEAKER_02: Is that coined by you?
1:21:05
SPEAKER_03: I guess it is.
1:21:05
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:21:08
SPEAKER_03: I did Google it to be like, did anybody...
1:21:09
SPEAKER_02: I could talk to you forever, by the way.
1:21:11
SPEAKER_02: Look at this.
1:21:12
SPEAKER_03: I know.
1:21:12
SPEAKER_03: We're so far over time and I've probably got a client waiting on the other line.
1:21:15
SPEAKER_03: Who cares?
1:21:15
SPEAKER_03: This has been so much fun.
1:21:17
SPEAKER_03: So much fun.
1:21:18
SPEAKER_03: You are amazing.
1:21:19
SPEAKER_03: I'm so glad we met.
1:21:20
SPEAKER_03: So are you.
1:21:22
SPEAKER_03: Thank you for your time.
1:21:23
SPEAKER_03: I'm so excited to air this.
1:21:24
SPEAKER_03: Thanks for asking, reaching out.
1:21:26
SPEAKER_03: Let's keep doing it.
1:21:27
SPEAKER_03: For those of you listening, come to one of our Lift and Be Lifted sessions.
1:21:30
SPEAKER_03: Yes, I'll be there.
1:21:31
SPEAKER_03: Become a paid subscriber to The Uplifters podcast.
1:21:33
SPEAKER_03: It's like $8 a month.
1:21:35
SPEAKER_03: And there's so much goodness and so many amazing women.
1:21:38
SPEAKER_03: And let's all just keep creating a world where we lift each other and get lifted.
1:21:45
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
1:21:46
SPEAKER_03: Thank you for saying yes.
1:21:47
SPEAKER_02: And go follow Jess in all the places and follow me in all the places.
1:21:51
SPEAKER_03: If you weren't already, best place to find me is Substack.
1:21:54
SPEAKER_03: And then after that, you know, like all the Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook places.
1:21:59
SPEAKER_03: Apple Podcasts, Spotify, all those places.
1:22:01
SPEAKER_02: Again, thank you for saying yes to me.
1:22:04
SPEAKER_02: For me, I don't know if I was brave or awkward and weird,
1:22:07
SPEAKER_02: but side-lining to ask you to collaborate and you being like, okay.
1:22:12
SPEAKER_02: So thank you for saying that without really knowing me.
1:22:15
SPEAKER_02: I appreciate this.
1:22:17
SPEAKER_02: This conversation was eye-opening and magical and beautiful.
1:22:20
SPEAKER_02: And I think my new word is magical now.
1:22:22
SPEAKER_02: I want magic in my life.
1:22:23
SPEAKER_02: I'm inviting magic.
1:22:25
SPEAKER_02: So again, thank you for this wonderful conversation.
1:22:28
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
1:22:29
SPEAKER_02: Talk soon, Jess.
1:22:30
SPEAKER_03: Bye.
1:22:33
SPEAKER_03: Thank you for listening to The Uplifters Podcast.
1:22:36
SPEAKER_03: If you're getting a boost from these episodes,
1:22:39
SPEAKER_03: please share them with The Uplifters in your life and then join us in conversation
1:22:45
SPEAKER_03: over at theuplifterspodcast.com.
1:22:49
SPEAKER_03: Head over to Spotify,
1:22:50
SPEAKER_03: Apple Podcasts,
1:22:51
SPEAKER_03: or wherever you get your podcasts and like, follow, and rate our show.
1:22:57
SPEAKER_03: It'll really help us connect with more uplifters and it'll ensure you never miss one
1:23:03
SPEAKER_03: of these beautiful stories.
1:23:06
SPEAKER_01: Big love.
1:23:09
SPEAKER_01: Painted water, sunshine.
1:23:11
SPEAKER_01: With rosemary and tongue, Dwell in the perplexing, Though you find it vexing.
1:23:18
SPEAKER_01: Toss a star and hover,
1:23:20
SPEAKER_01: Be your own best lover,
1:23:22
SPEAKER_01: Relish in a new prime,
1:23:24
SPEAKER_01: Land a tree in springtime, Dance with idle hindsight, Bring the sun to twilight.
1:23:33
SPEAKER_01: Lift you up.
1:23:34
SPEAKER_00: Lift you up.
1:23:36
SPEAKER_00: Lift you up.
1:23:37
SPEAKER_00: Lift you up.
1:24:00
SPEAKER_00: Lift you up.
1:24:04
SPEAKER_00: Lift you up.
1:24:06
SPEAKER_00: Beautiful.
1:24:08
SPEAKER_00: I cried.
1:24:10
SPEAKER_00: It's that little thing you did with your voice.
1:24:19
SPEAKER_00: Right, in the pre-chorus, right?
1:24:21
SPEAKER_00: I was like...
1:24:24
SPEAKER_03: Mommy, stop crying.
1:24:25
SPEAKER_03: Mommy, stop crying.
1:24:26
SPEAKER_03: You're disturbing the peace.