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IFH 712: Directing Al Pacino in an Indie Film with Johnny Martin · Indie Film Hustle® - A Filmmaking Podcast

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You are listening to the IFH podcast Network. For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting
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podcasts, just go to IFH podcast network dot com. Welcome to the Indie
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Filmhustle Podcast, Episode number seven twelve. It's not about selling, it's about
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creating value for your audience. Jerry Aloca broadcasting from the back alley in Hollywood.
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It's the Indie Film Hustle Podcast, where we show you how to survive
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and thrive as an indie filmmaker in the jungles of the film biz. And
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here's your host, Alex Ferrari. Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the
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com. That's film bizbook dot com. Enjoy today's episode with guest host Dave
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Bullis. My next guest is a filmmaker and stuntman. He began his career
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in twenty fourteen just directing with his debut of the horror film Delirium, which
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is actually coming out the beginning of next year, by the way, which
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is January twenty eighteen. He went and went on to direct two other films,
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Vengeance, a Love Story starring Nicholas Cage and Don Johnson and Hangman which
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is the phone. We're gonna talk about today a lot about Today starring Al
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Paccino, Carl Urban, and Britney Snow. We also talk a lot about
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doing stunts because he was in a really cool movie called Killer Clowns Matter of
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Space with guests Johnny Martin, and I really appreciate that too. You know,
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we have a mutual friend in mister Kehoe. And uh, you know,
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is it just me, Johnny, or does Michael Kehoe know everybody?
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Michael Keho not only knows her, he knows people he doesn't even know yet.
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Yeah, It's it's always seems like Mike always knows somebody else. He's
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always, you know, I actually him talking to somebody else or or just
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you know, mentioning somebody else. I'm like, my god, this man
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must not sleep. He must just he must just either either call or go
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to networking parties or just you know, he has his finger on the button
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like he he has it all working together. Well, I've known him for
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a long long time, probably over eighteen twenty years, and back then,
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you know, he always talked about directing and doing all these movies, and
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I thought, well, these craft service really and I was always told Today's
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Craft Services Tomorrow's director, and sure enough, this man pulled it off.
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He's amazing. Yeah, I mean he definitely did. And you know,
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and speaking about you know, Today's Craft Services Tomorrow's director, you know,
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there's a lot of ways to get into the film industry. I mean,
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you know, everyone I've had on here as a unique story. So I
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wanted to ask Johnny, how did you break into the film industry? Well,
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it's such a great story and I'm very proud of it. And basically,
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when I was seven years old, I used to go to car washes
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all the time because when I grew up it was like the seventies and they
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always had the hot rods coming into the car washes. And I has a
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huge car stana. So one day Alston his car pulls up with a trailer
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behind it with a smashup car, and this guy steps out and he looked
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like Burt Reynolds coming out of his car. He just was an amazing man.
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I had to ride ride my bike up to him and ask him,
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you know, what have you know when I'm your car and he goes,
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this is that car? Her name's Eleanor. He goes, Eleanor meat,
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and he asked by my name, and I told him. He goes,
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yeah, Eleanor's a star in my movie called Gone at Sixty Seconds. And
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I'm the director, producer, stunt man, actor, writer, and I'm
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out there delivering my movie to all the theaters and self distribute this film.
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And I said, I don't understand that. So sweet that for like two
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hours, and he explained everything to me. At the end of the conversation,
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I said, I want to do what you do, and he says,
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well, look, if you go home and study and train, you
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could come see me win you're eighteen and I will help you out. So
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sure enough, that day, I went home and I started training. I
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started training out to be a stunt man and an act I took acting classes,
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and when I turned eighteen, sure enough, I got in that car.
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I went to LA called my mom to tell her I was. I
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was there and she said, Honey, I got bad news for you.
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Hb Hillicky, he died today at doing the movie Gone at sixty Seconds car
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too, And so I went there. I was left alone, not knowing
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what to do. So I worked my butt off and ten years later I
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got asked to stunt coordinate and design all the actions for an upcoming Jerry Brooklyn
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a movie where I was starting to get out of that part of it in
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my life and starting only direct and produced. And I said, what's the
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name of the movie, and they said, well, it's gone in sixty
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seconds. And so it was just this amazing turnaround. Was like HP was
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still taking care of me. And I ended up winning an award for Best
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Coordination of the Year. So it was really a thrill. You know that,
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that's absolutely amazing. That's absolutely amazing, Johnny, where you got to
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actually be a part of the movie that you started with and uh, yeah,
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you know that. That's amazing. And so because I mean, you
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did a lot of different stunts and I looked at your IMDb and there's one
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movie, Johnny, I have to ask about, and you did stunts for
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Killer Clowns from Outer Space. Oh my god. You know you understand.
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I did a Titanic, I've done the Matrices, I'd done the Terminators,
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I've tons of you doing. But the number one question everyone asked me,
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you were in Killer Clowns. It's so funny. That Little Cold movie was
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one of my first films that I acted and did stunts, and I played
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three of the clowns, and I did everything on that show, and it
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ended up becoming my most memorable movie. You know. I keep getting gifts
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from all over and autographs signed for that movie too. It's just crazy.
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Yeah. You know. One day I was I was at like a Big
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Loss. I don't know if Big Loss is kind of like this big box
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discount store. And I was there and they have this, they have these
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they have a movie section and I found Killer Clowns there one day and I
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said, you know, I remember this movie as a kid. So I
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take it up to the register, right and I'm checking out and the girls
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scanning was you know, scanning the DVD's and buying, and she stops on
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Killer Clowns and she goes, oh my god. She goes, I remember
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this movie. And she goes to she starts telling everyone around her. She
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goes, has you ever seen this movie? She goes, it is freaking
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awesome. She goes, it's about these clowns who coming from outer space and
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they and they're they're turning people into these concade cocoons and everyone Nail is like
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good getting around her looking at this DVD case of Killer Clowns and they're like,
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oh my god, there's are more copies back there, Oh my god,
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this this looks awesome. And I'm like, it's this. It's this
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fun movie that that just came out of nowhere and I remember seeing as a
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as a kid growing up and now and by the way, I have another
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copy. You can't see it because it's on a podcast, but I have
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a copy on my bookshelf. That's great. Well, I'm in talks with
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the Kyoto Brothers to see if I could produce the part of the part two
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of that, so it's kind of interesting. Yeah, and I think like
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part two would be absolutely awesome. I think movies, especially in movies like
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that, I think now are are more prevalent than ever because I mean,
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I know, you know, I'm starting to get the superhero fatigue and I'm
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starting to you know what I mean, And I know people who work on
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those movies, and I want to support them, But at the same time,
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I'm like, you know, I am way more interested in seeing like
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a Cohen Brothers movie, you know what I mean, or something like that
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where it's like this this fun movie, you know, or something even something
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like you know, uh, something else that has come out recently that that
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just blew me away was Three Billboards. Have you seen that yet? No?
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I, oh, yeah, it's it's fantastic. But I'm sorry,
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I'm getting off track down, Johnny, but but but but yeah, it's
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uh, you know, that's why I think movies like that, you know,
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it just it see it stays in that zeitgeist because it's such a fun
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movie. And you know you mentioned doing uh stunts for Titanic too. I
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promise, Johnny, I was going to mention that too because I saw you
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did you know, I saw Titanic on your IMDb and I said, you
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know, I'll ask about you know, Titanic then and then then Killer Clowns.
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But I so so so, I mean so Johnny, just you know,
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as we talked about stunts and everything, you know, there's been like
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guys like Jason Statham who who mentioned that, you know, stunt guys should
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get their own category at the Academy Awards because you know, they do a
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lot of dangerous work. They do a lot of different you know, the
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car flips, the brick jumping through the glass, all that, all that
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stuff. You know, all that that dangerous work. You know, so
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you know, as a sunk by yourself, you know, what are your
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what are your thoughts about stunt stunt guys getting their own category to Cammy Awards.
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Well, I agree and disagree with it. And the part I agree
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with is that, yeah, you know, the number one genre that makes
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the most money in the film industry is actually movies. So it is it
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is all of us out there that at least what I was. And but
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the other point of it too is that you know, you have to declare
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who is a filmmaker and to me, to be nominated for Cammy Awards,
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you have to be a true filmmaker. And there are a lot of some
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people that are are not filmmakers. They are just guys like to get hit
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by cars and like to crash up and wreck things and all that. But
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then there's those great seconding the directors and stunt corners out there that know how
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they're design amazing action that helps drive not only the story, but the characters
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as well. I mean, there's nothing better than seeing a great a great
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action. We'll be right back after award from our sponsor, and now back
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to the show that helps tell you who this character truly isn't and what he's
10:09
feeling without having to say it, And that's to me very rare to see.
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Like the Borne Identity movies, to me I'm very impressed by because they
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you know, the action is really only twenty percent. The rest is all
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the acting of Matt Damon and you see what he's reacting to him and so
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believable. Where then you jump into Fast and Furious, which I think is
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amazing stunt work and all that, but it's and designs very great, but
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not My issue is that, you know, does it is there a character
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in that car or is it the car that's being the hero? And that's
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to me the point that if they do do this, they have to make
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it clear that it should go to a filmmaker, not because someone made five
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hundred million in the box office on a great action movie. Yeah, I
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see what you mean. And again, because you know, sometimes in the
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movies like Fast and Furious, you know the sort of the the car itself,
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the muscle car is, the the exotics, they're they're like the sort
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of center of attention and a lot of those action set pieces. Yeah,
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and that's not what the story is about, not about the car. It's
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about who's driving the car where and where they're going. Yeah, and you
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know that that'd be funny to actually like turn into something like Transformers, where
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it's kind of like the same thing. You know. So as you as
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you took your career, Johnny, you know, as you got you know,
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to do more and more stunts, you started producing. And you know,
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again as we were talking, you know, it's always interesting to see
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the trajectory of careers. So as you go from stunts to producing, how
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did you make that that sort of transition from one of the other. Well,
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I mean the whole reason why I got into the stunts I happen to
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be really good at it. So I was fortunate to stay in it for
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as long as I did, probably longer than I wanted to stay. But
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but I wanted to learn from some of the top directors. Look better way
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of getting behind Tony Scott and James Cameron than to get on the set of
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the Stuntman and stay on for a few weeks instead of just trying to sneak
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on. So that was mainly my main idea. Then when I started to
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watch it, I realized how much money is being overspent when people are just
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trying to spend money. When you look at studio movies, you look at
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it where there has spend an eight hundred million dollars. Well, really only
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fifty million got put in the movie. The rest are executive charges, studio
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charges and all that, So movies aren't really a hundred million. I'm like,
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well, why can't you make you know? And I started seeing the
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decline of video and blockbusters and all that, and I'm like, well,
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where is the recoupment going to come from? But we have to start making
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movies for less. And sure enough that's started happening. And so when I
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started the studying that I wanted to produce, I knew that I can knew
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how to shoot action, and I knew how to do it quickly, and
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that was the most expensive part of making action movies is the action. So
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I went to Millennium Films Hobby Learner, and I told him, well,
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how much do you do your sci fi movies for? And he says one
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point eight million? I said, and you shoot it where? And he
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goes in Bulgaria. I said, well, what if I tell you I
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could shoot one of your sci fi movies the same style, same way,
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for three hundred thousand, and I'll shoot it in la He said possible,
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And so I had my actors Casper Vandean and Michael Rooker call up Bobby and
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say, I think he could do it. I really believe in him.
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And sure enough we have pulled it off for three hundred and ten thousand.
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Movie became sci fi film in the year and then I did another one and
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I said, can I have the one point five and he said no,
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I'll give you seven hundred if he wanted to test me. And sure enough
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I did that one for seven hundred, and that became sci fi movie the
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year of the following year, and then obviously started giving me more and more
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films to produce after that. So it's more or less knowing and I through
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my career, I've always wanted to learn every department. I thought, learning
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from this man HB. A. Lackey that I met when I was seven
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years old, the key to becoming a great filmmaker is to learn everyone's job.
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I learned how to do special effects. I learned how to do visual
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effects. I learned every single creb. When I had a day off,
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I'd go spend it with some of my buddies that did another career than I
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did, and I try to learn it so I could become the ultimate filmmaker.
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And that's where I thought producing would be very very good for me,
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and it's paid off very well for me as far as my career. I
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got to be the first company to travel to China and to co co produce
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a movie with China Film Group A five years ago twenty thirteen called Urban Games,
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and I got to show them how you could pull off a movie where
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they thought they needed eighteen million. I did it for seven and a half
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on so it worked out really well. They wanted me to stay there,
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and I just couldn't stay in China. I wanted to come back home and
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do some real movies. So well, if you did stay in China,
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just just sort of playing like a what if game, Johnny, if you
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did stay in China, do you think that they would have just been coming
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up to you with like, you know, project at the project and just
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saying, hey, Johnny, could you you know, produce this film and
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produce this film in Beijing and then go to to to like you know,
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to SESSH want to do this film? Yeah. I was asked to go
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to Canada, you know, and my my movie we went to Soul,
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Korea and Beijing. And the problem I had with it it is similar to
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TV in China, where the producer isn't the film acre it's really the director,
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and in TV it's the writer who is the producer. And so it
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became something where I'm a creative producer and I'm not the kind of producer that
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just needs to push numbers around and get things done at a certain price.
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I want to be a part of the filmmaking experience and to help scenes get
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better. And when I went to China, it was more that I had
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these ideas, but the director got to override me. Where in my films,
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here as a producer, I got to say what I wanted and felt
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that you needed to shoot this no matter what, and I got it done.
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And so that's why I really didn't want to stay in China for very
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much longer, because I didn't want to just be a guy that did the
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numbers. I was in that I was built to make movies, not to
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just help create movies by money. Yeah, and I think that's very very
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virtuous of you, Johnny, because you realize you want to stay true to
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yourself. You know, you don't want to just sit there, and you
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know you want to make your own movies. You don't want to make other
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people's movies exactly. So by the way, you know, I don't know
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if you do. You know Peter Marshall, uh name sounds familiar. He's
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like a he does a lot of first A D work. He's worked a
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lot with John Woo, but he actually was in China uh for a while
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doing different movies and stuff like that. But but yeah, I just I
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just wanted to ask if you knew him, just in case you two ever
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cross paths. It very well might be that I do know because I've done
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a few job in the movies. So yeah, and he's a he's a
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real good guy to it and so U. But yeah, if if you
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don't though, if you don't know him, though, Johnny, let me
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know and I'll introduce you to you. Got it sounds great. So so
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so as you sort of you know, got better at producing, you know,
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you're able to sort of, you know, do do different things with
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money. You know, was your was your budget sort of rising incrementally or
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did you ever find yourself Johnny like somebody would say, oh, no,
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look Johnny, we're all gonna give you, you know, five hundred thousand
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or a million. And then when you make and when you went to make
16:52
that your second, third, and fourth, they were there. You know,
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they just kept at that same point where it was like Johnny willing gonna
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give you fifty million or five hundred thousand or a million. They allow you
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to or did you were able to get it to go up incrementally? Well
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after I do those two two sci fi movies, that's when Obvious asked me
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to do a third, and I said, no, I want to step
17:11
up to a budget where I could actually make a film that I believe in,
17:15
not just having to put it together and do whatever I could for the
17:18
money. So you know, immediately there I jumped up to the five to
17:22
seven million dollar range and I did three or four Cuba Gooden junior movies that
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he started. It was just right when Wesley Snipes went to jail and Cuba
17:30
was right there to fill in for the next great action hero where I was
17:34
hoping to try to get these dramas and rewrite them into action pieces, but
17:40
not action movies. Where you know, it helped Cuba because I'm a real
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big fan of Cuba Gooding, and I just wanted to see him just raise
17:47
his career up by not being sold out as an action start, but being
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an action quality actor. And so that's what I started to do, and
17:55
I found a niche in that spot. And that's where I realized that if
17:59
you have like two point one to two point five below the line, that's
18:02
where most movies today are being made. Everyone gets caught up in numbers and
18:06
they think that, you know, I got eleven million dollars budget. I
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guarantee that eleven million dollars budget still has a below the line to make the
18:12
movie around two point one to two point nine. You know it, just
18:15
because it flects with I've done movies for seven millions and nine millions, twelve
18:19
millions to thirteen million, and yet to below the line is still around three
18:22
million or less. That doesn't change because you know, you know, today's
18:26
movies because there is no payoff in VD and Blockbuster I mean, excuse me,
18:34
and Netflix isn't buying as much as as we thought they would, and
18:37
China stop buying all together. You know, it really makes it hard for
18:41
anyone to recoup. So I was lucky that I found that niche because right
18:45
when I started really getting further and further into it, that's when I realized
18:48
that all the movies have to be made for that, unless they're sequels or
18:52
they're a Marvel comic. You know, all the rest of the movies are
18:53
still being done at this level. And the problem is a lot of the
18:56
studio guys don't know how to do movies at a price. You know,
19:00
they don't know about sales. That's where Abby Learners taught me. You know
19:04
what each country buys films for whatever reactor is worth, and how much you
19:08
have to make movies. His goal along, let's always make a movie for
19:11
what you could pre sell this movie, lower it by a million dollars,
19:15
and then you can make that movie for that and know that you always have
19:18
a million dollars problem. And no matter what the movie is, you have
19:22
to as a great producer. You have to figure out how to do that
19:23
movie for the money that's going to make the company money. So that's what
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I learned, and so now basically I'm still doing the same I mean,
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my movie is eleven million, but yeah, it's still below the lines.
19:36
Are still under three. And that's a great bit advice. By the way,
19:40
Johnny, I really liked that that advice because you know just how it
19:42
ties in as well, you know, just the with just this podcast.
19:47
You know, I've had filmmakers on who've done their first movie, their second
19:51
movies are third movies, and some of them have made a comedy as their
19:55
first movie. We'll be right back after a word from our spon, sir,
20:03
and now back to the show. And one of the things that we
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talked about on here, they said, David's when wherever we go to like
20:10
foreign sales agents or we go to do vod or to any of these like
20:15
aggregators like you know, uh, you know, there's there's tons of out
20:18
there, but if they go to any of them, they always say,
20:21
well, who's in it? And they go, well, you know it's
20:22
it's nobody. Well, they say, we can't really sell a comedy as
20:26
your first movie with a lot of unknown actors and expect it to get a
20:30
wide release. So they always said, you know, go out and make
20:34
a horror movie instead. Uh, what do you think about that advice?
20:38
So John, just to make a horror movie as your first movie. Well,
20:41
I think that the advice that that person said is even worse than what
20:45
we all thought today. I mean, nowadays, you know, eight eighty
20:49
percent of the movies that are being made are being made by independent not studios.
20:52
Studios just buy our movies, throw their name on it, and now
20:56
everyone thinks I got a line skate movie. It's like, no, I
20:57
did it through Patriots Picture and then they just bought it at the end for
21:02
two point seven or two point eight, But now it looks like it was
21:03
a Lionscape movie. So knowing that, yeah, I mean, we can't
21:07
even sell movies. And since we're in the independent world, we're not fortunate
21:11
to do movies without cast. I mean that we can't even sell it and
21:15
get our domestic out of it. So we have to have a cast for
21:18
it. If you try to make a movie without an actor and you think
21:19
you've got gold, well guess what's probably gonna end up sitting on a shelf,
21:23
or it's going to be sold to a distributor that will prove that you
21:26
never made a dime when he made all the money. So you should never
21:30
ever try to get horror movies. It's very tricky. It's like a good
21:33
example is what happened to me is that I need to show everyone I could
21:37
direct. Everyone knew I could produce, every knew I could do action direct
21:40
action, but they didn't know if I could direct a film with actors.
21:44
So I went ahead and wrote a movie about my friends that I grew up
21:48
with that we used to go to the scary house when we were kids,
21:51
and we had this hell gang, and I created this story around it,
21:55
and I shot at the original house that we used to sneak in at night,
21:57
and I made it found foolish. Sound footage was dead, while I
22:00
started getting the news from everyone that sound footage was going to die sooner or
22:04
later. So I had to rush and get this movie into editing and post
22:07
and clean it up and get it ready. And by the time that I
22:11
was ready to sell it, I missed the window by about a month.
22:14
Everyone said, fund footage is too many people did it because it's cheap to
22:17
do, so you know what, we're done with it. So now they're
22:19
done with it. So what am I going to do with this movie now?
22:22
Well, I went back, I rewrote it, and I followed it
22:25
another fifty thousand, and I changed it into a mix of sound footage and
22:29
real footage, a real film. And now that movie has done very well
22:33
for me. I was very very lucky. I did it with kid actors
22:36
from Disney Channel and all that, where you know, you could get them
22:40
at scale and at least they're they're they're not known names, but at least
22:42
they have a resume that you could at least put on a poster. And
22:47
that's what I suggest you're doing. You know, if worst comes worse and
22:51
you can't afford an actor or can't get an actor, you know, always
22:52
turned to a TV star because at least they got some kind of cloud to
22:56
them. Yeah, and with with TV being so prevalent nowadays, you know,
23:02
there's a lot more you know, TV stars out there because you know
23:04
Netflix alone there's like what three hundred shows the episodic shows now, but you
23:10
know the Yeah, there's there's a lot of you know Amazon, uh,
23:12
and then you have your cable package and then you have your Netflix and and
23:17
all the other channels. You know, there's a lot of episode of content
23:18
up there now. Yeah. Well, and the problem with all this is
23:22
a ten years ago Lockbuster would hold onto your movie forever. I mean,
23:26
you here you could go in there and get a movie from twenty years ago.
23:30
Nowadays, where you go other than the number one distributor in the world,
23:33
and that's Walmart. Walmart, believe it or not, is the number
23:37
one distributor because they hold onto your movies for years and years, and they
23:40
put in that fight dollar bucket. And if you could be thrown in that
23:41
fide dollar bucket, you're the luckiest producer in the world because that's where the
23:45
money is to be had because they can keep it in that bucket for three
23:48
years. Where Netflix is lucky the whole lot. If you get into Netflix
23:52
could hold on your movie for only three months. Red Box you're lucky to
23:55
be in it for months. So there's nowhere that has a lasting way of
24:02
selling your movie other than Walmart right now. And that's a very good point,
24:06
Johnny. You know I was at one time, I was actually at
24:08
a film producer sort of seminar, and they also talked about, you know
24:12
what the cost of shelf space is. So if you walked into a Target,
24:17
a best Buy, a Walmart, and you start looking around the movie
24:19
section, you know each time the cover is horizontally versus vertically. You know
24:25
what I mean with the covers facing out towards you and you can see it
24:27
versus if you just see the spine. You know, there's a huge cost
24:30
difference between those two because it's it's about shelf space. And you know,
24:33
they have the you know what eye level everyone goes to. First they had
24:37
they were talking about all that stuff, and you know, now you now,
24:41
you know, with with Blockbuster gone, and you know, now it's
24:45
just you know, Netflix, and you know, like you said, Walmart,
24:48
you know, giving into that bin, now that bends a whole another
24:51
you know, almost like another revenue cycle or another opportunity, you know what
24:53
I mean. And that's sort of and I know what you mean too about
24:56
going to that beIN I've seen tons and tons of movies that I from friends
25:00
of mine. I've made movies that I've seen them in there, and they
25:03
said, you know, that was actually good because people do actually buy from
25:06
those, from those big barrels of movies. Oh oh oh, yeah,
25:10
it really is. I mean, that's that's really that's the only place that
25:14
people, you know, are film watchers, the real film watchers go to
25:17
that buck against they want to watch something new, and they want something that
25:21
they could buy three of them instead of going to the theater and having to
25:23
pay for one movies. Yeah, and uh, you know, and and
25:27
yeah and Joseph Johnny just to sort of just to sort of reminisce, you
25:32
know, we talk about Blockbuster. I remember going there too a lot,
25:34
and I wanted to ask, you know, do you think that the Blockbuster
25:37
in any way, shape or form is going to come back, like where
25:41
you could actually just go to a store with with your friends and actually just
25:44
you know, actually rent physical movies, you know what. I wanted to
25:48
open up one so bad, But every time I do, I do the
25:52
research and you know, from is you know, like my daughters right now,
25:56
even though I'm in the business, I'll catch them watching a movie that's
26:00
theaters here right now because everything's being poppirated, everything's online, everything's free now.
26:04
I mean, you could really watch anything you want at anytime for free.
26:07
So why would you need to go out when you could just download it
26:11
or get it online. And that's the problem is is that, you know,
26:15
I used to love going to the Blockbuster with my kids, and that's
26:18
going through every movie. I mean, that was fun, and now it's
26:22
it's that to hear that time's gone and it's really hurting families. And that's
26:26
what movies are all about. Movies are all about bringing families together and enjoying
26:32
and experience a dream, you know. And now it's just a matter of
26:34
do they have time to watch one? And that's where it's I really miss
26:38
Blockbuster and I think the film industry is really hurting because it's gone. Yeah,
26:45
it's I know there's a lot of piracy out there. And uh and
26:48
I also wonder too, as we're talking about net neutrality, you know how
26:52
how much that will play into it, because if you're paying more for your
26:56
Internet, if you're paying more for certain features and packages, you know,
27:00
going to those those torrent sites is not going to be as readily accessible as
27:04
it as it is now if net neutrality goes away. Yeah, yeah,
27:10
yeah, Well the other thing you got to remember is that you own a
27:12
block Buster, you gotta buy how many DVDs where online? You just need
27:18
a copy of the movie and you don't have to make anything anymore. Yeah,
27:22
exactly. Yeah, but it would be fun though, it's just in
27:26
the best case to just own a Blockbuster or something. You know. Other
27:30
guys almost like what Tarantino used to work at you know what was the video
27:33
Archive. I totally agree, I am, and I think it can still
27:38
work in certain cities. I really do, because a lot of people don't
27:41
want to go on the internet. You know, it's just such finding the
27:45
right the right town, like LA's not the right town, but maybe somewhere
27:48
in uh in Spokane, Washington or boys Tido maybe the perfect spot for that.
27:55
Yeah, you know, there's still a few Blockbusters left and they're all
27:57
in Alaska. Really I believe that, See there are you know, people
28:03
don't want to be hyber naming in or how else they want to get out.
28:06
That's great love hearing that. Yeah, and also because you know the
28:11
internet there is slow as well, but do and and you know, you're
28:14
right, I do want to get out. But you know they were able
28:17
to go out and you know, go to the Blockbuster and you know they
28:18
don't have to stream it or anything. They can just you know, play
28:21
it right from the blue ray or the DVD. And uh when I when
28:23
I did read that, you know, I started saying, you know what,
28:26
it makes sense, you know, because you know, you're you know,
28:30
I don't know how populated Alaska is, and you know, but I
28:33
know it's it's not that populated, you know what I mean. It's you
28:36
know, when you think of Alaska, you think of igloos and polar bears.
28:41
Yeah. Absolutely, So, you know, Johnny, as we as
28:45
we talked about, you know, getting back to I'm sorry now I started
28:47
to get off topic again, but as we as we go back to to
28:49
talking about you know, your your career and you in producing and everything and
28:52
you and you said you had to prove that you could direct. And I
28:56
think that's very, very critical because I think that's that happens to a lot
29:00
of people. You know, I think that's that's one of those uh,
29:03
you know, it's unique to everybody, but it's also universal at the same
29:07
time, because people want to see what you're capable of. They want to
29:08
see what you can do. So you made the horror movie Delirium, and
29:14
you know, what was your experience, you know, just just getting that
29:17
made in terms of, hey, this is the movie where I'm going to
29:19
show everybody what I can do. Well. The thing is that, you
29:25
know, going back the whole subject is that you know, people don't want
29:26
to be your first trying. They just won't do it no matter what script
29:30
you have. You know that's their career on the line. So that's why
29:33
you have to be able to show and improve yourself. And that's what's tricky
29:37
is that you know, unless you have you know, everyone doesn't look at
29:40
your movie as one hundred thousand dollars movie or two hundred dollars movie. They
29:44
look at it as as a movie. So you can't tell someone well,
29:48
this was only this, that's why I did this. They don't care.
29:51
They only care did you make a quality movie, not caring about your budget
29:55
or anything else. So now you're competing against that. We'll be right back
30:00
after a word from our sponsor, and now back to the show, which
30:07
really makes it hard. So when I did my movie, the background that
30:12
I had was the most important of learning every one's job. Because once I
30:17
did that, that allowed me to have a six man crew. That's all
30:22
I shot my movie with. I didn't have any more than that. I
30:23
knew what I needed to do. I prepped it. Prep is the most
30:26
important thing. Where today's movies, they don't give you prep anymore. They
30:30
give you four weeks to do a great movie. It needs me prep so
30:33
great and having every backstop every way of a problem happens, and ready to
30:38
make change at any time. I don't think I've ever shot a script that
30:41
we shot to the script itself. There's always a moment where you think,
30:45
oh my god, what if I did this? And you have to be
30:48
prepared for that, and you have to have a great team behind you.
30:51
Remember, when you're directing, your number one thing that you should be doing
30:55
at that moment is finding the right DP for you because you're not just in
31:00
the movie. His eyes behind that thing and he needs to move that camera.
31:03
No director ever says, Okay, now move that camera here there,
31:04
and that's great, But you've got to find moments through the dialogue that gets
31:08
you to that other character to not cause this delay of a camera's before a
31:12
hard cut. And that's what's so important to hire, is that finding that
31:18
perfect soulmates that you could find in a DP that you guys think alike,
31:22
imagine each other like, and you guys could pick the shot perfectly and know
31:26
that he has a free range to do whatever he wants to do to find
31:30
that as well, and it's a partnership. And that's what everyone wants to
31:33
say, Well, I did this movie, it's not I. I mean
31:34
every movie I've done, I've done with my dps. I have two dps
31:38
I trust wholeheartedly, and I don't want to do a movie without them because
31:42
we know each other, we know what we both like, and so I
31:45
would suggest that to everyone and product. Know what your product is, I
31:51
mean, know what is going to sell for the next four years. Don't
31:53
like found footage. For me, when I made the found fohig, I
31:56
did the worst mistake because I created thing that was hot at the moment.
32:00
I didn't look into the future. And that's what you need to do.
32:04
If I could do a sound footage, imagine how many other films are going
32:07
to be sound footage. So what can I do? What can I do
32:09
to be different? Because at two hundred thousand dollars, the only thing is
32:13
gonna make you stand out is if you have something that's different and new and
32:15
fresh, and so that's what you really have to consider. Just I'm glad
32:21
to shoot a movie to show that you have to know how to direct,
32:22
because no one's gonna The only time someone's gonna tell you that you're a great
32:25
director is when they love your movie, not love your shots, love your
32:30
movie. Yeah, and that's a good point, Johnny. You know,
32:35
it's always about that that whole experience, right, And you mentioned building a
32:37
team, so you know, just about finding the right director of cinematography so
32:42
you know, how to work together. I couldn't agree more because I've been
32:45
a part of film sets like that. I've seen film sets like that where
32:49
you know, they want to hire somebody because they got a nice camera,
32:51
they want to hire somebody because they can talk to talk, but you know,
32:54
when it comes time to it, when it becomes crunch time, it
32:58
all sort of falls away. Yeah, absolutely so Yeah, and you know,
33:04
and also we talked about just standing out from the pack. I think
33:07
that is you know, obviously it's more important than ever, you know,
33:09
because right now it's a war of eyeballs and ears, right, you know,
33:12
it's a war of you know, how can I get my movie seen
33:15
by by making it, you know, as unique as possible, not sounding
33:17
like something that someone's already has already seen, which, as we talked about
33:22
found footage. That's why I think Paranormal Activity really found that niche even like
33:27
the Blair Witch Project as well, the Blair Witch Project, they really were
33:30
able to capitalize on the fact that the Internet was so new, it was
33:34
in an infancy stages and you know, everyone really believed they and the marketing
33:37
was brilliant behind that because it made it seem like it was a real mystery
33:42
that and this movie was going to be you know, you're watching a documentary,
33:45
you know. And then with Paranormal Activity, it was you know,
33:49
I think they did something similar, but they were able to just capitalize on
33:52
this, and he made it for even cheaper than from than h. Blair
33:55
Witch was we I think it worn't made it from what thirteen thousand, So
33:59
it's like, you know, standing out. You know, just finding that
34:01
niche and standing out is sort of key, and I think you know,
34:06
to do that rather than just you know, reverse engineer, I think that
34:09
the way to do that is, you know, find what movies you like
34:13
and write a script that you'd like to see and and go from there and
34:16
then sort of use your own what resources you have and then see how you
34:20
can get it to sort of fit in that context. So you're not looking
34:22
going out and going well, I need to you know, go out and
34:25
rent a yacht to blow up or something like that. You know, it's
34:29
stuff you have. It's stuff that you have access to that you can use
34:31
to make your movie well. And the most important thing is like when I
34:36
say find find something new and fresh, you have to be willing to get
34:40
ready to change your whole thought pattern of that because it could fall on you
34:45
could fall in your face by but by doing that, just as fast as
34:49
you get successful. And by what I mean by that is that when I
34:52
made my movie, I knew I had to be different. So I wanted
34:54
to make stand by Me meets a horror movie. I wanted five characters,
34:59
and I made these guys hang out with each other for three months. I
35:01
filmed them for three months, just hanging out until I knew they were best
35:06
friends and wanted to hang out with each other. That's when I made the
35:07
movie. And that's how I knew it was going to get that stand by
35:10
me moment. It was more about character, and so I made this movie.
35:14
It was had scares in it and had these great moments. And when
35:17
I made it, I turned around and people, you know what, when
35:20
they got that title horror on there and you're not delivering horror. My idea
35:23
was great and it looked great at won some film festivals. But at the
35:25
end of the day, when people buy it, they said, Johnny,
35:29
we don't know how to categorize this movie. We don't even know how to
35:30
sell it because it's not really horror and it is so we don't know what
35:35
to do with it. So that's when I had to go back, not
35:37
only to change it out of found footage, but I had to put more
35:39
scares in it and cut out a lot of the dramatic parts where I built
35:44
these characters. So a lot of stuff I truly believed in I had to
35:46
change because at the end of the day, it's not about what I think
35:51
is pervious, what you know, the audience and what the buyers and the
35:54
distribution companies thinks. It's good. Yeah, And as we talked about sort
36:00
of selling, it's sort of like, you know, exactly what is everyone
36:04
looking for, what is everyone buying? How do I get people to buy
36:06
this movie? And uh, you know, as we as we talked about
36:08
your your second film that you know, in the past couple of months,
36:12
because again in the pre interview we were talking about how the past couple of
36:15
months we've been actually you know, really good for you uh you know,
36:16
not now Delirium is coming out soon, which is the movie we're just talking
36:20
about. And now you have a second film that's coming out, Vengeance,
36:23
a love story with Nicholas Cage. So how did you go about, you
36:28
know, getting that film, Johnny? Did you put that together or was
36:30
that something that was sort of pitch to you? Well? No, it
36:35
was a great movie. The Patriot Pictures asked me to produce it with Nick
36:38
Cage, who I've been friends with for twenty years and I met him during
36:43
Gone in sixteen. We did a lot of movies after that together, and
36:46
so I hear us producing it. The director. I didn't believe it.
36:50
I didn't think he could pull it off for what I had, So I
36:52
basically had to fire him. And Nick wanted to direct the movie himself,
36:57
and I said great. So since me and him had this great laboration together,
37:00
you know, he was so busy with his schedule and I would you
37:04
know, he called me up, he goes, hey, can you start
37:05
the shot list? Hey, you know, show me the locations I'll pick
37:08
and all this stuff. So we were working hand in hand and then you
37:10
know when when when the budgets started getting tighter and tighter and tighter. You
37:14
know, I had to cut days out of the movie. And I told
37:15
him, you know, you have to do this movie in twenty one days,
37:17
and he said, that's gonna be very hard for me to do plus
37:22
my schedule. Johnny, I don't know if I could pull it up.
37:23
Why why don't you do it? And so everyone agreed, the producers and
37:29
everyone said, yeah, John Jarny should do it. He knows the movie
37:30
the best. Then DJA stepped in and said, nope, Johnny can't do
37:35
it because he's a producer on the film and by Directors Guild rules, you
37:39
can't take over a movie for a director if you're the producer. So we
37:44
didn't have a director. We were supposed to start shooting in forty eight hours,
37:47
and eight hours before we started shooting the d my producer, my financier,
37:52
got his attorneys on after the DGA and they finally agreed that I could
37:57
direct the movie. So I didn't have that much warning that this was my
38:00
movie and it was about rape, and it was a sensitive story and it
38:04
was very hard. So I just worked every every night and every day I
38:07
was off to prep this movie, and you know, for every day,
38:10
and it was a really hard, hard movie. But I'm very proud of
38:15
it, and Nick is very very proud of it, and I think we
38:16
pulled us up special. So when you mentioned prepping even on your days off,
38:22
Johnny, was that more like you were in your producer's hat, like
38:24
You're thinking to yourself, Okay, well is this location really locked? U?
38:29
You know what could go wrong? What else am I going to need?
38:30
Was this stuff like that? No, I already you know I do
38:36
that. I mean like when I direct, like when I threw my last
38:37
wee Hangman, everyone else my ear. My deal in my head is I'll
38:40
go produce it for the first two weeks and I'll get everything handled with unions,
38:45
everything else and make all the deals. But then I shut off from
38:50
my producer at take that off, and I go dright into direct. And
38:52
when I did this on Vengeance, it was about seeing seeing the scenes.
39:00
I usually have this weird thing that people make fun of me for it,
39:02
but I could see things. I could see scenes in my head go around
39:07
me. I could see cars passed by my body when I'm just standing there
39:09
looking. So I like to close down the street and sit in the middle
39:13
of the street and look at it and find the scene and when I see
39:16
that, and I could really the picture where all my cameras could go and
39:21
all that. And that's why again saying a great DP can visualize your story
39:24
because as I talk out loud, he's seeing what I'm seeing now too.
39:28
So I had to make this movie. It was Nick's movie, and I
39:30
had to try to find out how to make it mine where I could believe
39:34
it, you know, And shooting a rape scene is very sensitive, and
39:37
it's very hard to shoot rape scene because people get so disturbed by it that
39:43
your movie could be ruined by a bad rape scene by making it too much.
39:46
And so my rape scene this movie, a little girl's watching her mom
39:51
getting raped, and I thought the way I could do this and make it
39:53
violent because it need to be violent, because we needed to know why these
39:57
guys should get what they get. By the end of this movie, we'll
40:00
be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now back to the
40:07
show that I said, what better than the show a rape scene through the
40:13
eyes of this girl and what her visual is and what her pain is that
40:16
she's feeling, and very show very little of the rape itself. And that's
40:21
was different than you know, Nick's version version of it, and that's where
40:25
I brought mine. And so that's what I do during prep to try to
40:29
prepare what I feel the movie should look like. Yeah, and I think
40:34
that's a good point too, because you know, there are movies that have
40:37
very very violent rape scenes, you know, like I spent on Your Grave,
40:39
Irreversible, uh, straw Dogs, just to name a few. And
40:44
you know, and again you were mentioning, you know, doing things a
40:46
little bit differently, and I think the way that you did it it definitely
40:51
sounds like, you know, obviously you're taking a very touchy subject, a
40:54
very you know, hard subject, but it's it's a different way to sort
41:00
of show this narrative rather than obviously at the graphic rate like I was just
41:02
in the three movies I just mentioned, right, absolutely, you're right,
41:07
so so as you know, and you mentioned your your third movie by the
41:10
way, and I this is actually the movie that got us talking through mister
41:15
Kehoe was is Hangman? Again. I saw the poster and I said,
41:19
wow, that looks awesome. And again then Michael, you know, just
41:22
introduced us out of sheer luck or law of attraction, whatever you want to
41:27
call it. But you know, as we talk about Hangman, Uh,
41:30
I wanted to ask, you know, what is it like? Well,
41:32
I wanted to ask actually because I want to ask what it's like working without
41:35
Puccino. But I also want to ask you know too, Johnny, you
41:37
know, how how did you go about with this movie and getting this made?
41:42
Uh? With Hangman? Did you you know, was this another project
41:45
that you were able to get made by yourself or was this pitch to you?
41:50
Well? I afrated, uh A Vengeance the love story Hangman was in
41:53
the company's patriot, and so they had a director already attached to it.
41:59
And when Michael, the financier saw the movie Vengeance, he said, I
42:04
want you to do Hangman. And so I had to talk my way into
42:07
Arnold Rifkin, who was the other producer, and he didn't really want me
42:10
because he already had his director. So it was a struggle and Michael said,
42:15
well, I'm not going to finance unless Johnny directs it. And he
42:17
goes, well, well, well it's not our decision, it's it's it's
42:21
Albacinos. So out here Albaccino, you know, didn't want to set up
42:25
the meeting. He said, well, let me see what he did before,
42:28
and he watched My Venie s The Love Story. He stopped after the
42:32
rape scene and called and said I'd like to meet him because he was blown
42:37
away by how I treated the rape scene. And he didn't watch the risk
42:39
of the movie, which was funny. He just wanted to see something that
42:43
really caught his eye. And so the scariest day of my life is knowing
42:47
I'm going to go meet the number one filmmaker of all time and the iconic
42:52
Albaccino. You know, how can I top this? And how am I
42:55
going to talk to this man who's worked with Scorsese in some and Coppola and
43:00
let him think that I'm as good as them, you know. And there's
43:06
one thing I have, and that's passion. I don't care about the money,
43:08
I don't care about anything else but to try to make a film that
43:13
is emotionally that gets people emotionally involved. And that's what I am about.
43:17
Almost I hear my favorite movies or like Miracle and Rocky and all those movies,
43:22
not you know, great action movies, and so going in there,
43:25
I guess I gave out a pitch that he just said, your energy is
43:30
so big and you believe in it so much your words. And before we
43:34
knew it, we were doing lines opposite of each other and he would do
43:38
when I say this, and I'd come back with the line right after that,
43:43
and he would come back to me. And we started improving, and
43:45
before I know it, I was going there every day and we were doing
43:49
improv and finally he had called me two in the morning, go okay,
43:52
this person with two lines, Johnny the cop that's in the police station.
43:55
I said, cop number two and he goes, yeah, he was.
43:59
Where were they born? I go Minnesota? He goes, is he from
44:02
a single family? I said, no, their family is still married,
44:05
but they're having problems. And it was what we thought of what the characters
44:09
would be, so when we got to the set, he was able to
44:13
focus differently on each character, knowing what they went through in their lives,
44:15
even if it was a one line character. And that's what really made this
44:20
movie so amazing, is because it just became so real and to work with
44:23
Alpaccino. Probably any any director in the world should be as lucky to have
44:30
the moment that I had with this man who's probably the most incredible actor and
44:36
human being other men. Yeah, I mean I just wanted to That's one
44:38
of the questions I want to ask about working with Alpaccino, was you know,
44:43
I mean obviously there had to be some kind of almost like a tmidation
44:46
because you know, Alpaccino has been in so many freaking movies that have just
44:50
you know, skyrocketed, like you know, Surproco and you know which where
44:53
he played a detective also, And I mean that's what I was going to
44:57
ask, is you know, if you ever, if he ever are just
45:00
you know, not not like coming with an ego, but just the fact
45:02
that you know, hey, look it's Albaccino. I mean, this man
45:05
has just made so many awesome movies and it's like, you know, how
45:08
do you direct somebody like that his work with Scorsese ego and stuff like that.
45:12
You know, it's just without being like, well, uh, you
45:15
know, you know what I mean and so and so that's good, Johnny.
45:17
I'm glad that you know you were able to sort of find that that
45:21
core. And again, you know, you're passionate, you know what you're
45:22
doing, and you know so and I want to ask you too, as
45:27
you're sort of going back and forth forth of him, and he asked,
45:30
you know, where was this character born? You know, that's just you
45:32
ad libbing. I mean, you know what would have happened, just as
45:36
what if if you would have said, Al, I don't know. Well,
45:40
the thing is that I prepared myself so well that I knew everything that
45:45
I need. I read that script eighteen times before I met with Al,
45:50
and I was involved with everyone. I knew where they were in the scene.
45:52
I I already pictured the set, already pictured who they were, how
45:55
they carried their shoulders, how they walked, and everything else. So,
46:00
I mean, great part about Hangman is that every role drove the story,
46:04
so it was easy to know what emotions these people felt. It's like in
46:07
my opening scene when we probably the first hanging, you know, everyone said,
46:10
well, Johnny, this girl is so weak. You know why,
46:14
So why isn't she supposed to be a cop? I said, yeah,
46:15
she's a beat cop, work in two in the morning shift, and and
46:19
you know, and she works a schoolyard. And so to me that that
46:23
character needed to be a little bit weaker. So my lead character, Rooney
46:27
could come into this movie and be strong and not be compared to another cop
46:31
and so it was stuff like that that made me realize that when I met
46:35
Al is that I already thought this stuff out and I already pretty much knew.
46:38
I didn't know the backstory so much, which I learned a lot of,
46:40
but I pictured this girl was wounded somehow and she was weak, and
46:45
so what would that lead to? And that led to what her family life
46:46
would be, And so Al brought it more out in me as well.
46:52
You know, but we did a lot of rewrites from me from from the
46:54
prep. It was an everyday meeting, everyday talk why I prepped the movie.
46:59
So it was really quite interesting. He wouldn't allow stuff that he felt
47:02
that the audience would stop at. As a matter of fact, he sat
47:05
in the editing room with me probably seven days, didn't say a word,
47:08
just hung out with me to watch see how we were doing this. And
47:12
you know, at the end of the movie, I told him out,
47:14
I know you thought we made seven But it's a character piece about four four
47:17
people struggling with their lives to find out how they could help each other.
47:22
And that's what the movie kind of is. Again, I'm all about relationships
47:25
and movies, and I know that everyone's going to go see it, probably
47:29
is going to go into it. Oh my god, this is another seven,
47:30
because that's what the trailer looks like, and it is. It's like
47:34
a seven. But it's more about having a relationship with these actors more than
47:39
the normal seventh kind of movie. Yeah, and uh, you know,
47:45
I have the I haven't seen the movie yet, but I actually I actually
47:49
ordered it on Voodoo and it's out early on night right now, so I'm
47:52
actually gonna watch it, not tonight but tomorrow, so I can't wait.
47:55
And I saw it was up there and I said, oh, I said,
47:58
I actually ordered. I was like, you know what, I'm gonna
48:00
have Johnny on the podcast, and I thought I was gonna time to watch
48:04
it, but I didn't, but I made sure to order it. And
48:07
by the way, everyone, I'm going to link to that in the show
48:08
notes Hangman on Voodoo it's actually out before it's in theaters or the same times
48:13
in theaters, and which I think, by the way, Johnny, I
48:15
think that's a really good idea for for a lot of films in general,
48:21
because it sort of gives you, uh, you know, so get a
48:25
different form of access, you know, in case you know, the movie
48:29
isn't playing around you, or if you know, there's not a theater like
48:31
around you. I've always said this is a really good idea that I you
48:35
know what I mean, as we talk again about VOD and everything else,
48:37
I always think that's a good idea for for a lot of films to do
48:42
that is to come out either at the same time, uh it's in theaters
48:45
or even or shortly then after you know what I mean, right exactly,
48:50
I totally agree with you, and so so Johnny, you know, as
48:53
we as we sort of you know, I've been talking for about forty five
48:57
minutes, you know, is there anything include closing that you want to talk
49:00
about, Johnny, or or anything that we can get a chance to discuss.
49:05
You know. Half the reason why I do these these interviews, and
49:08
I'll ask because again I care about movies, and the worst thing about this
49:13
business is failure and how low it could really bring you, and how easy
49:17
it is to quit this business. And there's so many people that are more
49:22
passionate about films than probably anything in this world. And I just have to
49:25
tell everyone is that, you know, knowledge is everything, and the key
49:30
thing you got to be is the smartest guy in the room. Learn more
49:32
than the guy that you're meeting, and learn everything you can about him him
49:37
as well. I mean, no have the knowledge of knowing his work and
49:42
how it compares to your work. But people, you know, the ego
49:45
gets really big in this industry and that is what destroys people Unsfortunately, we'll
49:52
be right back after a word from our sponsor and now back to the show.
50:00
So I just say, knowledge is everything, and learn as much as
50:04
you can before you are ready to go out there. And you get one
50:07
chance at this, don't don't blow it just because you get that opportunity.
50:10
Be ready for your opportunity, you know, Johnny that is that is absolutely
50:15
great advice. You know, Always be ready and always learn as much as
50:19
you possibly can. And Johnny, where we'll find you out online? Well,
50:24
I'm the Martini Films dot net. Martini Films dot net. That is,
50:32
I have a website that explains my story and my whole career from stunts
50:37
to acting to producing. I'm going to start the opening up seminars of how
50:43
to raise money and help people in Georgia. All my crew members and all
50:46
that that want to become better filmmakers and even more filmmakers. So I'm going
50:51
to start putting on seminars how to go about putting together films and all that.
50:54
Hopefully i'll have that recorded. And I do have an upcoming movie with
50:59
our friend Michael Keyhill, which I gotta tell you I'm very very proud of
51:01
and I cannot wait to get started on this thing. And the movie is
51:05
called Judge Not. I think that is more like the seven that that everyone
51:09
wants to see. It's really dark and gritty and that's kind of like my
51:12
genre that I want to go with, like Dave, David Flincher Pincher did.
51:17
That's really really cool. And you and mister Keyhoe together that's, uh,
51:21
that's gonna be interesting because you know, again because Keyho knows everybody,
51:24
and uh, you know, yeah, it was absolutely and very excited.
51:30
Yeah and yeah, Johnny, when you are doing those sevens, let me
51:34
know and I will add them to the show notes as well. I'll update
51:37
them. Uh, you know, everybody, everything that Johnny and I talked
51:39
about on the show in this episode will be on the show notes at Dave
51:44
Bullis dot com Twitter. It's at Dave Underscore Bullis, Johnny Martin, I
51:49
want to say thank you so much for coming on. Thank you very much,
51:52
Dave, very nice, mean you all. I want to thank Dave
51:55
so much for doing such a great job on this episode. If you want
51:59
to get linksd any thing we spoke about in this episode, head over to
52:00
the show notes at Indie Film Muscle dot com Forward slash seven twelve. If
52:05
you have it already, please head over to Filmmaking podcast dot com. Subscribe
52:10
and leave a good review for the show. It really helps us out a
52:14
lot. Guys. Thank you again so much for listening to guys. As
52:16
always, keep that hustle going, keep that dream alive, Stay safe out
52:20
there, and I'll talk to you soon. Thanks for listening to the Indie
52:22
Film Hustle podcast at Indie Film Hustle dot com. That's I N D I
52:28
E F I L M h ustl dot com.