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Was it smart for the NDP to kill the deal with the Liberals? · Kvetch & Release

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: You've said about a dozen times at least that you've
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: ripped up the agreement and that that makes an election
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: more likely. But you've been asked several times and you
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: won't answer. Do you have confidence in the Trudeau government
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: as they stand now?
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: I will be a clear again. We have absolutely ripped
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: up the agreement with Justin Shoudeau, and that means an election.
• 0:20
  Speaker 3: Is more likelier.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: That's not clear you're in an election. Whenever that election comes,
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: we'll be ready to fight it. And the vision around
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: that election is going to be an important one. Canadians
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: will have to make a choice.
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: But can we get a corporate control?
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: Conservatives? They're going to let their corporate buddies rip you
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: off even more when new Democrats are going to save
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: you money on your rent and your groceries. That's a
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: choice that Canadians will have to make.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: Can we get an answer?
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  Speaker 2: I will look at any vote that comes before us
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: and we will make a decision in the best interest
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: of Canadians as any minority government normally operates.
• 0:48
  Speaker 4: That is NDP leader drig Meat Singh talking about the
• 0:52
  Speaker 4: ending of the supply and Confidence agreement with the Liberals.
• 0:55
  Speaker 4: He's taken questions about it a day after making the announcement,
• 0:58
  Speaker 4: joining me right now to discuss the breaking of that
• 1:00
  Speaker 4: agreement and what it means if it was a smart
• 1:02
  Speaker 4: idea or not. Is Liberal strategist Andrew Perez joins me
• 1:06
  Speaker 4: right now. He's also a consultant, Andrew. How you doing.
• 1:09
  Speaker 4: Great to be on the show, John, Hey, great to
• 1:11
  Speaker 4: have you. So the NDP leader did not give an
• 1:14
  Speaker 4: answer there to the Toronto Suns Brian Lilly, whatsoever? I
• 1:17
  Speaker 4: didn't hear one at least, did you? No?
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: Singh has been quite evasive, you know. Apparently this is
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: a decision that he and his closest advisors made back
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: in June, which makes this even the more shocking, essentially
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: making a decision in late June and taking the summer
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: off recording this video announcement apparently before Pierre Polievra issued
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: his public letter late last week daring sing to pull
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: the plug on this government. And so the timing doesn't
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: make sense. The messaging is weak. The messaging, you know,
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: suggesting that the liberal government is always caving corporate interests
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: and is abt to protect corporate profits is a pretty
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  Speaker 3: bizarre suggestion, given that this is the most progressive and
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: less leaning iteration of the Federal Liberal Party that we've
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: ever seen in Canadian history. And so what I think
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: this is is purely a political tactic and a communications exercise.
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: This agreement was reached two and a half years ago
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: in a very unstable period, coming out of the Freedom Convoy.
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: The war in Ukraine had just happened, and Singh was
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: looking for a lifeline. The Liberal government is looking for stability,
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: and through that lens, this agreement has worked and it's
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: underwritten a great deal of progressive social policy. But I
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: always question why sing would agree to this arrangement because
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: to me, it was always clear that the government, the
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: Liberal government, would take the credit for these progressive social
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: policy and that's exactly what's happened. Two and a half
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: years later. The NDP is languishing. They have about eighteen
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: percent public support and they're not getting credit for some
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: of the good work. So I think that explains what
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: we've seen in the last twenty four hours.
• 3:08
  Speaker 4: It's been a bit of whiplash with everything that's been
• 3:10
  Speaker 4: happening here, But I know that you're on social media
• 3:14
  Speaker 4: fairly often, Andrew, and it's been really frustrating to watch
• 3:18
  Speaker 4: the NDP leaders' comms being deployed, often stating things like
• 3:24
  Speaker 4: the Liberals are just in bed with corporate cronies and
• 3:28
  Speaker 4: that's why they're awful and no different than the Conservatives.
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: And it's all very hyperbolic. But going back to what
• 3:33
  Speaker 4: you were just saying, if they made this decision in June,
• 3:36
  Speaker 4: they recorded this video August what fifteenth, maybe they released
• 3:41
  Speaker 4: the video on September the fourth. They spent quite a
• 3:44
  Speaker 4: long time supporting a government publicly that they didn't support privately.
• 3:49
  Speaker 4: I don't know. Do you think that duplicitousness will go
• 3:51
  Speaker 4: over well with voters?
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  Speaker 3: Well, I think they do support the government privately. I
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: think this is a this is a tactic. They see
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: that their numbers aren't budgeting. They haven't got any political
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: upside from this agreement in the two and a half years.
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: And you know, at the end of the day, this
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: is an agreement I'm putting partis in politics society. You
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: can agree with it or not, But if you're a Democrat,
• 4:15
  Speaker 3: you believe in an activist role for government. This is
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: an agreement that has allowed for a national dental care
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  Speaker 3: dental care program which is in fact operational now it's
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: allowed for anti scab legislation, it's allowed for a national
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: pharmacare program. Mind you, that program is still before the Senate,
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: so it isn't the law of the land, but it
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: will be later this fall. And so what I found
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: even more puzzling from than a video that he launched
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: yesterday didn't name a single concrete measure and disagree with
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: the Liberals. It was all political riddit rhetoric to your point,
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: around corporate gigaways and the Liberal Party being in the
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: in the pocket of big business. So it just it
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: didn't compute, It didn't it didn't make sense. And and
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: and I'm seeing not only everyday Canadians, but you know,
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: people on social media this this this announcement has been
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: widely pansed, and I think in the short term nothing
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: will change. The NDP have no money, they have no candidates,
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: they're not ready to be to be plunged into a
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: general election campaign. So they will conchange to support the
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: government on an issue by issue basis, and perhaps in
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: the spring they'll reassess whether they're ready to head up
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: the pools. That's a possibility, but more likely or not,
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: we may be still looking at another year before the
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: next election for the very simple reason the NP are
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: ready from a from an operations point of view, to
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: fight that election.
• 5:49
  Speaker 4: So I heard this question asked a number of times
• 5:52
  Speaker 4: to Jeg meet Sing today, So what is all of this?
• 5:55
  Speaker 4: Why are we doing this? It feels like it's a
• 5:57
  Speaker 4: waste of time. So again, from your perspective, this is
• 5:59
  Speaker 4: just pure early communications and trying to improve the situation
• 6:03
  Speaker 4: on the ground.
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: Yes, and to be fair, look, I think the IDPR
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: I'm not sure. If I was an NDP advisor to Sing,
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: I'm not sure I would have ever advised finding this agreement.
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: I can clearly see the public policy rationale behind it,
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: but I don't think the political upside was ever there
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: even two and a half years ago. But having said
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: that it was a dead deal, I would have advised
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: pulling out a year ago. This feels like too little,
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: too late. I think the perception for the last two
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: years is that Sing and I think it's probably the
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: reality has been propping up dis government. That's been the
• 6:39
  Speaker 3: message of care Poli. Ever, he's now calling Sing sellout Sing.
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: I don't like that type of rhetoric, but it's proving
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: to be effective. Conservative leading media have been lumping in
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: sing with the TRUEAU government, and so to be fair
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: to the strategist, they have correctly identified that this isn't working,
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: albeit a too too late, and they're trying to use
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: this as an opportunity to say that sin is putting
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: Justin Trudeau on notice that he's pulling the plug on
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  Speaker 3: this agreement that the Liberals need to be replaced, and
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: he's the chief alternative to pre Qualitiero's scary corporate agenda,
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: not the Liberals, and so that's what they're attempting to
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: do to create that space. Will it work. I'm deptical.
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: We'll see, you know, we'll have Maybe we should revisit
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: this John at six months from now to see what's
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: the message track of the NDP has performed. Budge, My
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: understanding is they probably lose half of their twenty four
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: seats today if they were to go into an election.
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: So I think this is a sail mary pass. They
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: are going to lose seats in Northern Ontario to the
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: Conservative in World DC and so this is a hell
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: mary path to try to resuscitate, to try to save
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: the furniture.
• 7:55
  Speaker 4: Saving the furnitures, you never want to be hearing that.
• 7:57
  Speaker 4: If you were advising the federal NDP, I mean, what
• 8:00
  Speaker 4: would you tell them to do to write the ship immediately?
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: Look, I would say, and I think they should have
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: already done this with the video. They should have used
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: the video or the announcement or whatever communications opportunity to say, look,
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: here's what the NDP has extracted from the Liberal government
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: and point to dental care and part of the care
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: and anti establisations. But then say, well, we want the
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: Liberal government to go even further and put a couple
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: of concrete to progressive social policy in the window and
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: dangle them and say, you know, we will continue to
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: we won't continue to support you unless you do X,
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  Speaker 3: Y Z. At least that would bring some concreteness to
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: this whole discussion. And and and yeah, I do think
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: it makes sense for the MVP to support the government
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: on an ad on an issue that issue basis, that's
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: all good and well, but propose some substantive policy. Conservatives
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: and maybe liberals will disagree with those policies, but they'll
• 8:58
  Speaker 3: be in the window. And then Canadians could say, okay, well,
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: you know these guys are at least suggesting something concrete
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: and now the ball is in the liberal parts course,
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  Speaker 3: the Liberal government's court, to either enact those policies or nomino.
• 9:10
  Speaker 4: It did feel like just a big waste of time
• 9:12
  Speaker 4: yesterday and with the Q and A today. Quite frankly,
• 9:15
  Speaker 4: what would you tell the Liberals to do, because they're not,
• 9:17
  Speaker 4: quite frankly doing so well.
• 9:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, this is not a great outcome for
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: the Liberals. I will say that it does create an
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: even more precarious and unstable situation. They were effectively through
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: this agreement for the past two and a half years
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: governing is a majority. Now we're back into a traditional
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: minority government arrangement whereby every money bill, budget is a
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: confidence measure. There's nothing to stop the opposition parties who
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: do have a majority from buying together and putting forward
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: a non confidence motion in the government, which would, if pass,
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: plunge the country intrail election. So at a time when
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: the Liberals are twenty points behind, they lost their campaign man.
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: Today there's the constant question about Trudeau's leadership. This is
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: certainly not good news, but I would say in the
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: in the immediate to in the immediate term, I don't
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: think it changes much. I cannot see an election taking
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: place before Christmas, maybe next, you know, early spring at
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: the very earliest. And so I think, you know, at
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: the end of the day, I don't think Canadians buy
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: into this class based politics talking about coop for the
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: leads and governments being in the pocket of big business,
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: especially when you're talking about a government that many critics
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: points is too left ling and that has really enlargened
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: the state and federal government spending. So I think Send
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: needs to remember that. You know, voters may not follow
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: politics every day of their lives, but they can smell
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: bs when they see it, and I think there's been
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: a lot of that over the last twenty four hours
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: from the MVP. I'm not sure if they're fooling other
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: than perhaps their most ardent supporters.
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: It does often feel like they hold their voters in
• 11:04
  Speaker 4: contempt with some of the ways that they interact with
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: their discourse. Last question before I let you go, how
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: important does the block quebecquac become now?
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: So that's an interesting question, John. I think the blog
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: kiboquak could become important for the Liberal Party's stability if
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: the NDP decide that they're done and they're going to
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: oppose this government, the Liberals could secure Block Hiboquak support
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: to remain in power, So that would be something you know,
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: media will need to explore further over the coming months.
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: The Block could actually become important because I'm not sure
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: that the Bloc at the end of the day, the
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: Block is there to represent Quebec and do what's in
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: the best interests of Quebecer, and a Conservative government may
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: not be in the best interrusts of Quebecer. So I
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: think the Block will be true to themselves and we'll
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: look at every policy through the lens of what's that's
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: for Quebec. And if they think the Liberals are putting
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: forth initiatives that are good for Quebec, then maybe they
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: will vote to keep this government in power for a
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: bit longer.
• 12:10
  Speaker 4: Well, no need to talk about the Conservatives because right
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: now they're just so far ahead in the polls there's
• 12:14
  Speaker 4: really no need to assess how things are going there.
• 12:16
  Speaker 4: Andrew Perez is a Liberal strategist as well as a consultant.
• 12:20
  Speaker 4: Thank you for your time, my friend, I appreciate it.
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: Thank you, John. Take care