Latest / Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo / Dr. George Barna: Consequences Of Anti-Biblical Worldview Misdiagnosed As Mental Illness

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Dr. George Barna: Consequences Of Anti-Biblical Worldview Misdiagnosed As Mental Illness · Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo

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  Welcome to World View Matters, discussing controversial issues, discerning current events,
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  defending biblical Christianity.
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  No topic off limits.
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  And now, here's your host, David Fierazzo.
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  Hey, friends, family and Christ.
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  Thank you so much for tuning in for listening, watching, sharing World View Matters.
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  Got a question for you.
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  Is there a correlation between a lack of a biblical worldview and frequent mental health struggles?
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  Well, I want to quote today's guest, Dr. George Barna, he explains,
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  it's not uncommon to find a young adult who trusts feelings more than facts,
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  sees no inherent value to life, believes in karma, rejects the existence of the biblical God,
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  add this or add to this a lack of any sense of purpose and meaning and the idea that truth is
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  subjective. This common set of components results in a lifestyle that is inconsistent, chaotic,
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  frustrating and lacking hope. So anxiety, depression and fear are virtually inescapable in such a
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  life. And we're going to talk about some recent research and some of you might be surprised by
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  what has been researched and exposed. But Dr. George Barna is a professor at Arizona Christian
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  University and director of the research at the Cultural Research Center at Arizona Christian
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  University. They focus on World View Assessment and Development and Cultural Transformation.
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  He's also the Senior Research Fellow at Family Research Council Center for Biblical World View.
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  He was the founder of the Barna Group, which was sold in 2009. The Barna Institute, the American
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  Culture and Faith Institute and Metta Formation. He has provided research and strategy for
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  Parachurch Ministries. Christian Church is the U.S. military and Fortune 500 companies.
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  He's provided polling for political campaigns and has provided polling and strategy to four
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  presidential candidates. Fascinating and brand new book, he's got raising spiritual champions.
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  We'll hopefully get to that in the second part of this interview today. It's the 60th book
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  that George Barna has authored or co-authored. He's taught at several universities, seminars,
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  served as the teaching pastor of a large multi-ethnic church, pastor at a house church and helped
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  start several other churches. I don't know what he did not do. That's a lot. George Barna is so
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  good to see your brother. Thank you so much for your time today. Thanks for having me, David.
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  That's kind of you. Let's talk about the most recent research. I guess it's not surprising.
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  When you talk about mental health and one of the headlines is CRC research suggests,
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  World View may be key to America's mental health crisis. That means the anti-Christian or
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  anti-biblical worldview is really impacting people's lives and it's not for the good. Please
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  share more about that. When you look at the worldview of Americans, the dominant worldview in America
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  is what's called syncretism. 92% of Americans are synchrotists. In contrast, only 4% of adults in
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  America have the biblical worldview as their dominant worldview. What is syncretism, basically,
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  it's taken a lot of different worldviews and just picking and choosing what you like from each
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  different one, blending all those things together into a customized worldview, something that you feel
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  comfortable with, something that pleases you, something that you think you can live up to.
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  So rather than having a worldview that's based on truth, you have one that's based on your feelings
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  and you can begin to see how that's going to lead you astray. Now in this most recent research,
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  what we were doing was looking at the whole idea of mental health and mental illness in America.
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  And we know that across the country, we've got a large share of Americans about one out of four
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  who are said to have at least one diagnosed, more mental illness. So that number is big.
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  It's been growing. We find that it's much, much bigger with our younger generations.
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  And we find that there's a real direct correlation between the worldview that people buy into
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  and their mental health. Why does that make sense? Because your worldview is your decision making
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  filter. It helps you to understand the world, to interpret what's going on in the world,
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  and to determine your response to what's going on in the world. And so your worldview naturally would
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  have an impact upon and be deeply related to your mental health. And so the fact that we're finding
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  that many individuals in America who are struggling with mental health issues, particularly with
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  anxiety, depression, and constant fear, which often leads to suicidal thoughts, those are the
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  kinds of mental health struggles that we find could be alleviated if people were to have the
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  biblical worldview. That's where we come in, sharing the gospel, telling them about the hope
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  of Jesus Christ and eternal life. If they believe that if most of these people believe that this
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  life is all there is, or that they were just some random accident that there is no God,
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  that's pretty depressing. So it's no wonder that this leads to mental health issues. But
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  Dr. Barnett, I want to get back to syncretism. Because isn't that it's not surprising that people
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  would kind of like to patchwork a God, form a God in their own image to their own liking? Is that one
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  of the commandments? Idolitry? Talk to us a little bit about that. It's not surprising, but
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  a lot of people would rather do that than seek the truth. It's interesting, David, because you
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  look at our population, you find that currently 66% of adults call themselves Christians.
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  Now a large number of those people attend Christian church services on a regular basis.
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  So you have to wonder, well, what are they being taught? If they're saying, well, I don't really
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  believe that the God described in the Bible is real. I don't believe that he has anything to do
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  with my life. I don't believe that I was a sinner from birth. I don't believe that after I die,
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  I can know what's going to happen to me. In fact, I don't believe that after I die, I'm going to go
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  to heaven based on Jesus Christ and what he did for me on the cross. What we find, unfortunately,
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  David is that most people attending churches are not born again Christians, which is a different
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  way of saying, hey, if you want to become a missionary, go to church. The mission field is sitting
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  right there in the pubes. What we're finding is that most people say, I'm going to go to heaven,
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  but the reason for that is because I'm a good person. I've worked really hard in my life to do good
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  things to help other people to be better than the guy next door. And so there's all of these
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  non-biblical perspectives that people who regularly go to church are walking away with.
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  Now, it's partly, I think, the fault of what we're doing in our churches, how we're teaching,
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  what we're teaching, what we're not teaching. It's partly, though, due to the fact that my research
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  also shows that the most prolific or dynamic worldview teacher in America are the arts and
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  entertainment media. Most people are developing their worldview based on the information, the messages,
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  and the visuals that they're receiving from movies, from television shows, from popular music,
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  from video games, all of these things in other media are what are determining the worldview of
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  Americans. And the other thing that's important and how is that a person's worldview is essentially
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  determined by the age of 13. So what we're doing with children in our churches is critically important.
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  What we're doing with children in our homes or families is critically important. But more than
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  either church or family are being impacted by the media that they absorb.
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  And we need to talk about that in the second part of this podcast and your book, Raising
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  Spiritual Champions. And we'll talk about the biblical worldview of pastors and youth pastors,
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  those youth pastors who are teaching today's children in some churches. Dr. George Barna,
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  you had me at, if you want to be a missionary, go to church. So we have to put Christians or
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  Christian in air quotes sometimes too often today. I know you've studied this for many, many years.
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  How did we get to this point? Is it just watering down the gospel, not preaching the whole council of
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  God, sending our kids to government schools? Can you give us a few things that we can take away
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  so we can understand how we got to this point of such a low biblical worldview?
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  Yeah, it's a great question, David. It really, you know, focuses in on how do we get air? What do
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  we do? How do we make it better? And I think a large part of it has to do with what we measure
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  as success in churches. In my industry, in the measurement industry research, we have an expression
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  you get what you measure, which means that you only bother to evaluate what you think is important.
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  So we do a study on a regular basis where we go to the senior pastors of churches and we ask them,
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  how do you think your church is doing in ministry and we find that consistently they say,
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  we're doing a great job. And we say, okay, well, how do you know on what basis do you make that claim?
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  And what we consistently find is that most pastors tell us they measure five things,
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  they measure how many people show up, how many programs they offer those people, how many staff
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  will they've offered or they've hired to man those programs, how much money they're raising at the
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  church and how much square footage they've built out. And the way that they analyze that data
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  is they look at it for this weekend and they'll go back 52 weekends ago a year ago and they'll say
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  our numbers bigger now than they were 52 weeks ago. And if they are, they'll say we are a growing
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  and effective church. Now I'm a measurement guy, so I'm glad they're measuring things, but we have
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  another saying in my industry, which is if you measure the wrong things, you'll get the wrong
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  outcomes. We're measuring the wrong things. Jesus didn't die for church attendance statistics.
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  He didn't die for churches to have the biggest real estate portfolio in the community.
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  These are not the kinds of things that he was unjustly crucified for. And so if we were to
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  measure the right things, which would be things like how many disciples do we actually have in our
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  church or in our church growing spiritually in terms of their knowledge of the key things that
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  lead somebody to become a disciple. If we measure those kinds of things, we get very different
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  numbers, very alarming numbers. Those are the kinds of things that I measure all the time.
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  But we need our individual churches to be paying attention to those kind of assessments,
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  because that will help us figure out whether or not we're really being the church that Jesus
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  died for. Well, I don't hear a lot of discipleship. You said it was a very good point. I heard
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  you said numbers, programs, growth, money. I don't find a whole lot of this in the New Testament,
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  and yet we've got maybe just I wasn't planning on asking about seminaries, but this has become a
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  problem from my understanding. They're dropping the inerrancy of scripture and all kinds of
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  things. And they're teaching church growth. Can you speak to that? I mean, that's probably another
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  problem, because that puts out these pastors who do not have a biblical worldview that you do
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  the research on, right? Yeah, I think you've got a break coming up soon. So you don't want to get
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  me on that soapbox. We'll never get to the break. But yeah, I mean, the way that I just bottom line
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  is seminaries may be the most harmful institution in American society today, because if you look at how
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  they do what they do, they've adopted an academic model, not a spiritual model. They invite students
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  who do well on standardized tests as opposed to students who are called to ministry by God.
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  We give them degrees, and we certify them as leaders for churches to hire, even though almost none
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  of our seminaries do any testing to figure out are these people actually called gift and instilled
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  as leaders. And so they go out. Most of them actually based on my research have been called
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  teach. They've been called counsel. These are good things. They're important things, but that's
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  very different than being a leader. And so I think our churches are being misled into thinking,
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  yeah, if we just hire seminary graduate, we get potential leadership slash senior pastor material.
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  And it turns out that that's not in fact the case. Probably only about one out of four of today's
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  senior pastors are actually called and gifted as leaders. And so when we look at why the church
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  in America, the local church is being influenced more by the culture, and the culture is being influenced
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  by the local church, it has to do with these very kinds of issues. Thank you. I couldn't have
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  condensed in as well as you just did, because I get very passionate when I talk about the seminaries,
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  and it's just a shame. But we've got to take a brief pause with Dr. George Barnett Cultural
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  Research Center at Arizona Christian University. When we come back on World View Matter,
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  some of the unbiblical beliefs, not only from senior pastors, but children's
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  pastors, you may not believe these numbers. And we'll talk about his book, Raising Spiritual Champions.
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  That's next. Today's show is brought to you by Harbinger's Daily. World News Biblically
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  So Dr. George Barnett, let's talk about some of the sobering statistics and the numbers.
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  And these are very important because these men of God, you know, maybe I shouldn't even say
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  men of God in all contexts, but pastors are the ones who teach congregations. Children's pastors
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  are taking care of the kids. Some are just entertaining. Some, I don't know what they're doing,
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  because there's just a horrific number in the low percentage of Biblical World View when it comes
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  to children's pastors, just 12%. But let's talk about that and how we, how we write the ship
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  if possible and if with God, all things are possible. But these numbers aren't very encouraging. Go
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  ahead, please. Well, they're not, but you know, there's two ways to look at glass F empty glass
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  F full. We can look at that, I think, and say, well, this is great. We've got an opportunity to
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  grow in a sense. It's almost like if we're willing, we can start over at building the church,
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  building it right, building it strong, building it for greater positive impact in our culture.
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  Right now, we're not having that impact. And I think it's very clearly because we've gotten away
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  from God's truths. We don't believe that God's word is always reliable and relevant. We're not
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  willing to confront the culture. We don't want to have conversations with people who believe
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  differently than us because that's conflict. And we don't want to do that. You know, David,
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  we've been doing a lot of research lately related to the election. And one of the things that
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  blows my mind is that we find that conservative Christians, Bible believing Christians
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  of the 80 different segments of the population that we look at consistently, they are the group
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  that's least likely of all 80 segments to actually engage people who they believe think differently
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  than them in a conversation about today's issues. Now, those are the very kinds of people that
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  we've been called to share the gospel with if you've been called to build relationships with so
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  that we can model for them the Christ-like life. And yet, those are the very people that were
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  avoiding because we're afraid it'll wind up in conflict. And then when we ask believers,
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  well, why is that? Why won't you build those bridges? They say, well, I'm not sure what to believe
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  about the issues. And to me, this goes back to our churches. What it tells me is even our pastors
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  are afraid to dive into these. We just finished the survey this week where we looked at that very
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  issue and we found that pastors are not asking their people to vote in the election. I mean,
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  that's simple. There's no cost of that. How tough does that? You know, they're not teaching them
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  about the issues of the election. They're not encouraging people to do their homework before they
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  vote to know what the candidates believe about these issues. And to compare that with what the
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  Bible teaches on these issues, that's simple stuff to do. Any leader would naturally do that.
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  But we find that most pastors say, no, politics is dirty. I don't want to wait into it. My people
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  don't want it. It's controversial. Hey, the gospel is controversial. Get over it. So we've always
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  got to be willing to take on the tough issues that arise in our culture. We're here for such a time
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  as this to debate and to address issues such as those. Yeah, to confront evil, to expose the
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  deeds of darkness and not participate with them or not hide the light under a basket or under
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  the table. It really is disturbing. We don't have a lot of good role models. Strong leaders. There
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  are some great churches in America, but not enough. And you talk about today's pastors, they cannot
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  give what they do not possess. You think about that and you go, wow, so it's no wonder maybe a lot
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  of them aren't schooled. They don't know Bible prophecy, the Old Testament, certain doctrines.
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  They don't feel comfortable with teaching that. Or maybe others are seeking the approval of man
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  and not God. Tell us more about pastors and youth pastors, Dr. George Barnett.
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  Well, it's partly an issue of knowledge, not knowing what the Bible teaches. That's an easy
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  thing to remedy, David, as you know, open the book and read it, you know, that's not that tough.
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  Sadly, most of these individuals on staffs in churches across the country have been through
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  seminary. And so they've got a lot of bad theology within them. Their worldview is not a biblical
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  worldview. And I will tell you, you know, I've been studying worldview for close to 40 years now.
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  And it's a lot tougher to change the worldview of an adult than it is to shape or perhaps change
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  the worldview of a child. And so the more that we can invest in doing that with our children, the
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  better off will be. But with our children's pastors, our senior pastors, other pastoral staff,
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  it's partly an knowledge issue, but it's also partly a courage issue. Having the courage to tell
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  people that yes, I believe in the God that most Americans don't believe in. Yes, I gave my
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  heart, mind and soul to Jesus Christ, the divine creature who died for me on that cross, who
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  two out of three Americans don't believe in. Yes, I believe that the Bible conveys absolute moral
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  truth. And yes, I'm devoting my life to trying to live that way, because I know that please
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  as God, that brings him joy, that honors him, that advances his kingdom. And that's what my life
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  is about, living for him. You know, in that book, Raising Spiritual Champions, David, I talk about
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  the fact that most churches have no idea how to define who a disciple is. And yet Jesus, six times
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  in the scriptures, outlined for us in John H, John 13, John 15, and Luke 14, three times. He talked
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  about the qualifications of a disciple. We need to really understand those and devote ourselves to
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  it. And make sure that that's what we're doing with our children. We're trying to raise them up,
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  not only to know those standards, but to live by them so that they grow up to be true disciples
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  of Jesus. That's right. And the website Raising Spiritual Champions book.com, it is also on Amazon.
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  So we've got a problem with the world view. Let's just look at the youth pastors,
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  according to your research, they would prefer socialism to capitalism.
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  What else did I read that 42% do not believe that human life is sacred? And it's some of this
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  is a sounded because parents, and this is a quote from you, to whom the Bible assigns the primary
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  responsibility for shaping the world view of their children, are called to equip youngsters to
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  grow up in relationship with and service to God. And then it goes on, we need to stop right there
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  because parents have kind of co-opted that to, I don't know, the government schools and their
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  youth pastor for one hour on a Sunday night. Go ahead and share more, Dr. Brunner.
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  Yeah, sadly, when we did all the research for that book Raising Spiritual Champions, one of
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  the things I found is that the dominant form of parenting today in America is what I've labeled
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  outsourcing. And what that means is that they love their children so much, they want them to have
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  the best. And so what they do is they go out and hire experts to raise their children.
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  And so they hire tutors, they hire coaches, they hire pastors, you know, or they drop the kids
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  off. I mean, they're spending money to get the best developers they can of their children.
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  Now, the problem is, number one, it's not the role of those experts to raise my child.
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  That's my job. God told me, I'm going to give you this gift of a child. And your gift back to me
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  will be how you develop their mind and their heart and their soul to love me, to, you know,
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  commune with me, spend time with me, to worship me, honor me, serve me. That's your job, parent,
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  is to imprint that in your child's life. It's partly going to be through, you know, what
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  Deuteronomy 6 talks about where, you know, you've got this on your mind all the time and you're
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  spending time with your children talking about it, reading the scriptures, praying together,
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  confessing together. That's what you do as a family. But that's not what's happening in America.
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  In fact, when we looked at parents, we found number one, only 2% of the parents of children
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  under 13 have a biblical worldview. Number two, most parents of children under the age of 13
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  are not born again. You know, number three, the top priorities of parents of kids under the age of
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  13 are things like academic prowess, good health, making the right kind of friendships,
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  being able to earn a lot of money in the future, you know, preparing them for worldly success.
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  And we found way down the list where things like worldview developments or spiritual maturity,
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  biblical knowledge, relationship with God, these were not priorities that parents were pointing
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  towards. And that's why with each succeeding generation, the church is losing ground in our
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  culture. We're not influencing the culture. The culture is influencing us. And so those people
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  who are disciples, the remnants, they need to understand that the only people who can make
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  disciples are disciples. Why? Because we reproduce who we are. You can't give what you don't have,
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  you can't teach what you don't know, you can't create something that you are not. And so
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  disciples need to recognize all the other stuff in life as to go by the boards, as to go by the
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  wayside. This is our time to be investing in developing disciples and particularly doing that
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  through children. Good place to end this conversation for today. Dr. George Barnett,
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  we've got to focus back on the kids and raising them right, according to biblical standards,
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  not according to the world. Big undertaking, but not impossible. And if we're still alive,
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  we're still here for such a time as this. There must be still time and there must be still hope,
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  right? There is. You know, we can't waste it. We can't spend time arguing about,
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  gee, should I do this or should I not? Should I go for the job promotion? It's going to take more
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  of my time. Listen to all the stuff of the world is out there competing for your time, your energy,
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  your focus. Don't let it distract you. Focus on who God made you to be what his call to you is
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  and how you can use these final days to do what he put you on the planet to accomplish for his
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  amen exclamation point. Raising spiritual champions book.com. Is it cultural Christian? I'm sorry,
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  cultural research center.com as well. Yes. Yes. Okay. Dr. Barnett, what a pleasure. Just
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  gleaning some of what you've researched and studied all these years. Thanks for your time today,
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  sir. God bless you. Thank you, Dave. All right. Guys, there's so much. I know there's a lot of
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  information we didn't get to. Obviously in the book, you're going to have to check it out and
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  to follow that research because as sobering as it is, there's hope and we have work to do,
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  but we're still here. So let's keep fighting, friends, fighting the good fight of faith.
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  God bless you and as always, keep speaking the truth about things that matter.