Latest / The You Project / #2181 Being You in the Middle of Them - Harps & Tiff

Transcript

#2181 Being You in the Middle of Them - Harps & Tiff · The You Project

0:00
Speaker 1: Pray. Anthony Harfer here he is welcome. Welcome back ups.
0:06
Speaker 2: Hello Cookie, thanks for having me, Thanks for having me
0:09
Speaker 2: on your show and in turn us being on my show.
0:14
Speaker 2: Hang on, who's actually show? Is it? Is it both?
0:17
Speaker 1: It's a koshare?
0:18
Speaker 2: Oh, it's a co share, all right, it's not to
0:21
Speaker 2: be kosher, which is a Jewish coo share.
0:27
Speaker 1: I feel like it might not be kosher if it's
0:29
Speaker 1: a conversation between you and I.
0:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. I don't think it's fit for most
0:34
Speaker 2: people's digestion. But fuck it, let's live on the edge. Hey,
0:38
Speaker 2: before you ask me whatever you get asked me. I'm
0:41
Speaker 2: trying to Can I just tell you a little story
0:44
Speaker 2: or share a little factory? Now there is night share
0:47
Speaker 2: this how on you project? In two two thousand and
0:51
Speaker 2: two hundred something episodes, we've done one designated episode on
0:56
Speaker 2: evacuating one's bows also known as shitting aka doing akr
1:02
Speaker 2: A releasing. Sorry, I can't say that. I can't say
1:08
Speaker 2: that because that's was going to do. That would have
1:10
Speaker 2: got a spanned Oh yeah, yeah, no, I just realized
1:14
Speaker 2: what the origin of that was, which I don't usually
1:17
Speaker 2: in that's it. But anyway, having a pool and how
1:20
Speaker 2: to pool? Well, now, so I just want to cheer
1:23
Speaker 2: a few little factoors with you, and then you take over,
1:27
Speaker 2: seeing as I've already hijacked.
1:28
Speaker 1: I can't I can't get past that. I need the
1:31
Speaker 1: origin of what I know you were going to say.
1:33
Speaker 1: I'm just writing it down so I can ask it later.
1:36
Speaker 2: Think about, think about that, say which I don't say
1:40
Speaker 2: it with that, but then you anyway, let's not do that, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:47
Speaker 2: It's like you No, I can't say that either. No. Well,
1:53
Speaker 2: it's like, well, I remember you posted a quote from
1:56
Speaker 2: someone very famous on your website and I rang you
2:00
Speaker 2: up and went do you know what this person did?
2:04
Speaker 2: Because you didn't know the background to what that person did,
2:09
Speaker 2: And then you went, oh fuck, And it's a great quote,
2:12
Speaker 2: but you don't want to be quoting in that particularly.
2:14
Speaker 2: It's a bit of that, you know. That's the fucking
2:18
Speaker 2: verbal and emotional mind field that we navigate when we
2:23
Speaker 2: start spouting words from our fucking face on a podcast
2:28
Speaker 2: like how could Like, there's two things going on to me.
2:32
Speaker 2: One is what am I going to talk about and say?
2:35
Speaker 2: And how do it? But also how can this be offensive?
2:39
Speaker 2: You know or how could somebody And I'm not even
2:42
Speaker 2: saying twist it, but just interpret this as offensive because
2:45
Speaker 2: you've got to do that the whole time, because you're
2:48
Speaker 2: not talking to yourself. You know, that whole psychological chestnut
2:53
Speaker 2: of which I speak often the false of insensus effect,
2:57
Speaker 2: which is where people think, well, it's not offensive to me,
3:00
Speaker 2: so it won't be to her, or it's funny to me,
3:03
Speaker 2: so it will be to him, or it makes sense
3:06
Speaker 2: to me, so you know all that and so on. Anyway,
3:09
Speaker 2: so back to the Pooh story, back to the matter
3:11
Speaker 2: of hand. So you know, right, there's different theories, but
3:16
Speaker 2: probably the most prevalent and it seems to be rational
3:18
Speaker 2: and logical and well searched. Antidote or support for constipation
3:24
Speaker 2: is fiber. Right, that's no big news. And we know
3:28
Speaker 2: that the food that has got the most fiber per
3:33
Speaker 2: graham is sillium husk, right, And so but me, trying
3:41
Speaker 2: to get people to use sillium husk is like trying
3:44
Speaker 2: to get to nail their eyelids to a fucking piece
3:47
Speaker 2: of wood or something. They'm like, dude, it's just put
3:49
Speaker 2: it on top of your yoga, mix it in with
3:51
Speaker 2: this or that Now, silium husk is about I'm going
3:55
Speaker 2: somewhere with this. It's about eighty to five prams or
3:58
Speaker 2: eighty grams of fiber per hundred, depending on which research
4:04
Speaker 2: you look at. Ladies tend to need somewhere around all
4:08
Speaker 2: the RDIs around thirty grams a day. For blokes, that's
4:11
Speaker 2: about forty grams a day, I guess, just because generally
4:15
Speaker 2: they're bigger, and maybe a few other variables I once suggest.
4:21
Speaker 2: But so every day, on top of my protein powder
4:26
Speaker 2: and my oats and my nuts and my oat milk
4:29
Speaker 2: or whatever I have, I have to to dessert spoons,
4:34
Speaker 2: which is probably around twenty grand to five of silium
4:38
Speaker 2: must all my friends, not all my friends, that's a lie.
4:41
Speaker 2: A lot of people that I know that don't pool, well,
4:43
Speaker 2: they buy meta musle. Now, meta musle is somewhere in
4:48
Speaker 2: the ballpark of three to four times more expensive than
4:54
Speaker 2: silium musk, and the main the active ingredient in meta
4:58
Speaker 2: musle is silium hust right, So the actual product is
5:04
Speaker 2: about three or four times cheaper silium huss than meta
5:08
Speaker 2: mucle By the way, metamucile is only about fifty eight
5:13
Speaker 2: or nine percent silion husk and therefore somewhere around I'm
5:18
Speaker 2: not sure, but obviously way less fiber, so forty percent
5:23
Speaker 2: lot fiber power grand for grant. The bottom line is
5:27
Speaker 2: we've got this thing that you can buy in the
5:28
Speaker 2: supermarket that costs fuck all. It costs about two dollars
5:32
Speaker 2: or two dollars fifty one hundred grms versus Meta muscle
5:37
Speaker 2: seven or eight bucks per one hundred grms. That isn't
5:41
Speaker 2: as good. And it's got all this artificial bullshit and
5:45
Speaker 2: color and flavoring and sweeten it sweetener in it. It's
5:51
Speaker 2: it's not nearly as good a product. It's got shit
5:54
Speaker 2: in there that's bad for you. But people avoid the
5:57
Speaker 2: actual product itself, which is sillying hust So I'm going
6:00
Speaker 2: to step down off my high horse. But if you
6:02
Speaker 2: struggle to po other than getting yourself a squatting potty,
6:06
Speaker 2: and no I'm not sponsored, but if you struggle to
6:08
Speaker 2: back one out or shoot one off, to wear a bit,
6:10
Speaker 2: if you live in Victoria or log on early morning,
6:16
Speaker 2: then just get yourself some silli a husks. It's about
6:19
Speaker 2: two hundred and fifty grand bag and Woolies is about
6:23
Speaker 2: like seven or eight bucks. So not get told about
6:26
Speaker 2: your bows will be happy. You'll be evacuating like a
6:29
Speaker 2: fucking champion. You'll be dancing nude around the bathroom. You'll
6:32
Speaker 2: be taking photos sending it to your friends look at
6:34
Speaker 2: what I did and hashtag thanks Harps, You're welcome.
6:40
Speaker 1: I did not know that was coming. And what is
6:43
Speaker 1: very interesting is that at ten forty am on a
6:46
Speaker 1: Wednesday morning, this is the second conversation I have had
6:52
Speaker 1: about shitting and fiber and meta mucil.
6:57
Speaker 2: Isn't that already today? Today?
7:00
Speaker 1: So I was leaving the gym in Port Melbourne and
7:02
Speaker 1: they stock these protein bars that are made by a
7:06
Speaker 1: local person that are brilliant. I love them. They're still
7:09
Speaker 1: processed food, let's be honest, but they make different flavors
7:12
Speaker 1: all the time. And I said, it's cool because there's
7:15
Speaker 1: this novelty. But when I was talking to Catherine, she
7:19
Speaker 1: said the husband so to husband and wife team that
7:23
Speaker 1: make them. The husband is a nutritionist and he was
7:26
Speaker 1: talking about the quality of the ingredients they put in
7:30
Speaker 1: and they're high fiber. They've got twenty six grams of
7:32
Speaker 1: fiber thereabouts per bar. And at the moment there's all
7:36
Speaker 1: of these workmen doing construction around the area, who have
7:41
Speaker 1: started buying the protein bars and have commented to her
7:45
Speaker 1: that now they're shitting regularly when they weren't shitting every
7:50
Speaker 1: day because they work on a construction site and they
7:52
Speaker 1: don't eat healthy food.
7:54
Speaker 2: A hundo like blokes. I think, I'm not positive, but
7:59
Speaker 2: anecdotal leave my conversations with lots of female clients. So
8:02
Speaker 2: for decades, I think women get maybe a bit more
8:06
Speaker 2: predisposed to uh constipation, stinking confirmation constipation. And but so
8:18
Speaker 2: with blokes. And this is generalizing. Lots and lots of
8:22
Speaker 2: processed lofo fiber food, you know, boogers and chips and
8:26
Speaker 2: fucking unders with sugar and all that ship and soft drinks,
8:30
Speaker 2: and of course I'm very much generalizing because but more
8:34
Speaker 2: likely to I guess that's both men women, but also
8:42
Speaker 2: like lots of foods that are a little bit more
8:46
Speaker 2: aligned with like with some people, Cheese is a you know,
8:50
Speaker 2: it's a game change it in a bad way. It
8:54
Speaker 2: kind of can bind you up a little bit. But
8:57
Speaker 2: and as we've said, also dehyde raged. If you're dehydrated,
9:02
Speaker 2: you will you increase your chance and being constipated anyway.
9:08
Speaker 2: I drink and have seen amount of water every day
9:10
Speaker 2: and having a cumpany to you right now and just
9:12
Speaker 2: had a glass of water before I came on, but
9:15
Speaker 2: you have being hydrated, having enough fiber. There's also quite
9:20
Speaker 2: a bit of evidence to suggest that having more oil
9:25
Speaker 2: in your diet the right right, you know, not not
9:29
Speaker 2: not crap, but good oils in your diet helps, which
9:37
Speaker 2: is why also we see that and this is a
9:38
Speaker 2: bit controversy. Some uh, some carnivores who virtually eat no meat, sorry,
9:46
Speaker 2: no fiber but don't get constipated. I don't know that
9:49
Speaker 2: there's any research on that, but anecdotally I've heard about
9:52
Speaker 2: that a lot. So that's but in general terms, fiber hydration,
9:58
Speaker 2: elevating your knees, elevating your feet off the ground, which
10:02
Speaker 2: I know it sounds weird, but there's actually a lot
10:04
Speaker 2: of science behind it. Because when you sit, especially on
10:07
Speaker 2: a high toilet I did say sit, then when you
10:10
Speaker 2: sit on a high toilet, less likely to shit on
10:13
Speaker 2: a high toilet. But for example, that that toilet was
10:18
Speaker 2: half the height, so you're now your ass is now
10:20
Speaker 2: much closer to the floor level, which means your knees
10:23
Speaker 2: are much higher relatively. It puts your coal and it
10:27
Speaker 2: unkinks your colon and puts you in a physiological kind
10:32
Speaker 2: of anatomical state of where pooing just becomes easier. And
10:37
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, so neag. But I used to get
10:41
Speaker 2: when I was young. I used to get constipated all
10:43
Speaker 2: the time. I don't know why, Like when I was
10:45
Speaker 2: in my early twenties, like twenty twenty one, twenty two,
10:48
Speaker 2: because I was a meat head, just eating all the
10:50
Speaker 2: body build of things which didn't really include fiber. So
10:54
Speaker 2: I used to have to take I took this thing
10:56
Speaker 2: called colosole, which is a wing assistant, which has got mirror.
11:03
Speaker 2: I don't know what else. Do we call it a
11:05
Speaker 2: poop pill. It's a poop It's a straight up poop pill.
11:08
Speaker 2: And it's got what's called a perry staltic stimulant. Do
11:12
Speaker 2: you know what perrystalsis is? No peristalsis is like in
11:16
Speaker 2: your esophagus. It's not just a pipe that food falls down.
11:21
Speaker 2: Like the muscles in the esophagus kind of massage of
11:24
Speaker 2: down squis it down, and so you have these muscles
11:27
Speaker 2: in your colon. You're welcome that contract and release and
11:31
Speaker 2: that contracting and uncontracting for the term that that process
11:36
Speaker 2: is called peristalsis, and so these drugs used to have
11:41
Speaker 2: a pery staltic stimulant which would stimulate the muscles to
11:45
Speaker 2: do the right thing. You're welcome, endo pooh discussion.
11:51
Speaker 1: I love it. It actually interests me thinking about that
11:54
Speaker 1: and thinking about all the bullshit that gets sprouted in
11:58
Speaker 1: all the different ways on that fiber has never been
12:02
Speaker 1: crowned a hero, and it's very deserving of it. We
12:05
Speaker 1: bang on about protein, we bang on about high fat,
12:08
Speaker 1: low fat, high carb, hope, macros, all of the shit.
12:12
Speaker 1: And I've had several conversations in the past on things
12:16
Speaker 1: like sugar and nutrition, and one in particular was about
12:20
Speaker 1: fiber being but it never gets crowned a hero, does it.
12:25
Speaker 2: Let's I'm writing that down, very good, the uncrowned. No,
12:29
Speaker 2: let's call it sorry, I'm writing it down, the unheralded,
12:34
Speaker 2: unherald nerd, nutritional hero. There we go. That's half you,
12:40
Speaker 2: half me. But do you know what else constipation correlates with?
12:45
Speaker 2: Think about it bow cancer? Because you've literally got sorry
12:51
Speaker 2: everyone for this, but if you're not there, But here's
12:53
Speaker 2: the thing, Like you can all squint and get mad
12:56
Speaker 2: at me, but you're all shit. You might want to
12:58
Speaker 2: call it something else, but everybody shits. You're not special.
13:02
Speaker 2: Everybody fucking eats and then shits and then wheeze, and well,
13:06
Speaker 2: like you can't talk about the whole world, does it anyway?
13:11
Speaker 2: But yeah, you imagine that instead of something. And obviously
13:17
Speaker 2: the rate of digestion and then kind of departure from
13:20
Speaker 2: the body there is depending on what it is. Like
13:24
Speaker 2: an apple ain't the same as a chunk of steak,
13:28
Speaker 2: but it's generally there. In a healthy body, there's nothing
13:31
Speaker 2: in you know, most of it's been evacuated within two
13:35
Speaker 2: or three days, but when people are constipated, that can
13:39
Speaker 2: be a week, that can be a wind and a half.
13:42
Speaker 2: Now you've literally got, in a literal sense, poo, shit, kaka,
13:47
Speaker 2: whatever you want to call it, in your body, which
13:52
Speaker 2: is just a fucking breeding ground for bacteria. Now you've
13:56
Speaker 2: just got that sitting in your body like two, three,
13:59
Speaker 2: four times more than it should be. So of course
14:02
Speaker 2: that's so so you know, being able to evacuate your
14:06
Speaker 2: bows as the nurses say to my mum and dad,
14:09
Speaker 2: have you evacuated your bows this morning? And does the
14:13
Speaker 2: ron asked that love that question, especially when there's three
14:17
Speaker 2: people around hey for your nurse. Oh, and not ask
14:21
Speaker 2: him when kids are there. But he's why, just just
14:23
Speaker 2: whisper in his ear? Have you backed one out? Run
14:25
Speaker 2: and probably go better? But I don't know. I'm not
14:30
Speaker 2: a nurse, but God bless them, they are amazing. I
14:35
Speaker 2: don't know. All right, Sorry I hijacked you show. It's
14:39
Speaker 2: all right.
14:40
Speaker 1: I've weirdly realized that this is not It's only a
14:44
Speaker 1: half a step away from probably what I wanted to
14:47
Speaker 1: talk about, which, as you were talking about constipation and
14:52
Speaker 1: evacuation and processing things, I was thinking, probably define my conversation,
15:01
Speaker 1: which was going to be more around maybe emotional constipation. Yeah, like, yeah,
15:07
Speaker 1: we had a chat yesterday and I was talking about
15:11
Speaker 1: a bunch You've been going through a bunch of things,
15:13
Speaker 1: and I was talking about a bunch of things I
15:15
Speaker 1: was going through, and I was just I'm feeling like
15:20
Speaker 1: a little bit emotionally constipated. So when you're talking about
15:24
Speaker 1: the literal stuff before, in my mind, I'm almost visualizing
15:30
Speaker 1: like the awareness of things that have been going on
15:34
Speaker 1: for quite a while, and the stuff that's been going
15:37
Speaker 1: in and I'm aware of it, you know, like the
15:38
Speaker 1: stuff that I'm feeding on in life, and I know
15:42
Speaker 1: it's going in but it's I don't know what's happening inside,
15:46
Speaker 1: and I feel a bit emotionally constipated, and I'm intrigued
15:49
Speaker 1: by that. So I was kind of hoping for a
15:51
Speaker 1: conversation around.
15:53
Speaker 2: That, let's do let's do it. Well, I mean, I
15:58
Speaker 2: just we just had a little break. I apologize, So
16:03
Speaker 2: can you just ask me sorry because that was three
16:05
Speaker 2: minutes ago. Now you know, I'm liking goldfish, But I
16:08
Speaker 2: do know you were talking about essentially what I wanted
16:11
Speaker 2: to ask you. I know where you're going, but I
16:15
Speaker 2: want to ask you. Do I have permission to talk
16:17
Speaker 2: with not too much kind of specifiicty, but around what
16:22
Speaker 2: we were talking about last night? Yeah, yeah, okay. So
16:28
Speaker 2: one of the things that so you've been having your
16:33
Speaker 2: dad stay with you, the person you love for most
16:35
Speaker 2: in the world apart from me, of course, and Scott
16:39
Speaker 2: is sixteenth. Scott welcome if you're listening to this. No,
16:45
Speaker 2: of course, we know different kind of love. But here's
16:48
Speaker 2: your favorite human. But because you and I are a
16:51
Speaker 2: little bit alike, we're awesome until there's somebody in our
16:54
Speaker 2: fucking house. Even if we love it. It's like you know,
16:59
Speaker 2: and it's it's just it just is what it is.
17:02
Speaker 2: But I think the bottom line is that you felt
17:05
Speaker 2: you hadn't been the best version of you over the
17:08
Speaker 2: last five or six days, maybe even towards Scott, which
17:12
Speaker 2: has got nothing to do with Scott. But I think
17:16
Speaker 2: the good thing is that you spoke to me about it,
17:18
Speaker 2: and you recognize it and you're aware of it and
17:21
Speaker 2: you're trying right. But I think in the middle of that,
17:26
Speaker 2: sometimes when you are a bit stressed or when you
17:29
Speaker 2: are a bit anxious, and you're making it no totally understandably,
17:34
Speaker 2: but it's all about you in the moment, it's very
17:37
Speaker 2: hard to be all about anyone else. Yep. And that's
17:40
Speaker 2: for me, that's a constant battle. I'm an only child,
17:43
Speaker 2: and I can be selfish and I live by myself,
17:46
Speaker 2: and I go to the by myself, get up by myself,
17:48
Speaker 2: and to an extent, do what I want when I want.
17:51
Speaker 2: Of course, there are meetings and obligations and all of
17:54
Speaker 2: those things, and that's been a real test for me.
17:58
Speaker 2: And you and I were chatting about this big because
18:00
Speaker 2: we're in a similar you know, mine's a bit progressed
18:03
Speaker 2: from yours, but you know, it's a matter of time
18:06
Speaker 2: where I'm I'm having conversations with Mum and Dad that
18:11
Speaker 2: I had thirty minutes ago, and it's like it's a
18:14
Speaker 2: brand new conversation and just for moments does they're fine,
18:17
Speaker 2: but they're both in respite at the moment, they're both
18:21
Speaker 2: in care and it's it's a tricky time, let's say that.
18:25
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's hard because we talk on this show,
18:29
Speaker 2: your show and my show. We talk all the time about,
18:35
Speaker 2: you know, without sounding too wenky, how do I be
18:38
Speaker 2: the optimal version of me? What does that look like?
18:40
Speaker 2: How do I be? Can I be the calm and
18:43
Speaker 2: the chaos? And I've said this to Melissa many times
18:47
Speaker 2: when there's been a little bit of shit going on
18:49
Speaker 2: with something in our company or with a business arrangement,
18:52
Speaker 2: or with Doe or with something, and I go to her,
18:55
Speaker 2: this is exactly what we talk about. And this moment
18:59
Speaker 2: a bit unpleasant. It's this moment that we do that
19:04
Speaker 2: that it's not like can I be cool, card confident, friendly?
19:08
Speaker 2: Can I be supportive and generous? And can I give
19:11
Speaker 2: my time? And yeah, the real question is that can
19:14
Speaker 2: you do all that when you don't fucking want to
19:17
Speaker 2: or you don't feel like it. That's the challenge. The
19:20
Speaker 2: challenge is to drag you know that sometime behavior into that,
19:25
Speaker 2: you know, when you're frustrated, when you're unhappy, when and
19:29
Speaker 2: I have times lately where I'm meeting someone for coaching
19:33
Speaker 2: and this is just my feeling, this is you know,
19:36
Speaker 2: but I'm like, I've got way bigger problems than you
19:39
Speaker 2: at the moment. Can you shut the fuck up with
19:41
Speaker 2: your little problem? Not really, but just a deep, deep
19:44
Speaker 2: part of spoiled me, you know. And it's but then
19:48
Speaker 2: when I go shut up, and then I just make
19:50
Speaker 2: myself present and then I just buy into you know,
19:53
Speaker 2: I'm just there. I'm just there for them, and it's
19:55
Speaker 2: real and it's authentic. But invariably I spend an hour
19:59
Speaker 2: not thinking about what's going on and whatever on planet
20:03
Speaker 2: me and only about giving to that person. And when
20:08
Speaker 2: I feel better about the hour I just had with
20:10
Speaker 2: them for them. But two, I feel better because I
20:13
Speaker 2: was giving, not taking energy Like it like it's in
20:17
Speaker 2: the giving of energy that's the ironic gift you think getting.
20:22
Speaker 2: It's like I say, hang around with people who drag
20:25
Speaker 2: you up, which is a great general idea, and what
20:27
Speaker 2: I mean by that is, don't hang around with energy
20:30
Speaker 2: vampires who are just trying to pull you down to
20:33
Speaker 2: the pit with them. But yeah, it's self regulating emotions
20:40
Speaker 2: and mind and reactions, especially reactions in the middle of
20:45
Speaker 2: when you are fairly nothing close to optimal emotionally, socially, cognitively, psychologically.
20:56
Speaker 2: That is the challenge. The challenge is not to be positive,
21:00
Speaker 2: that's bullshit. The challenge is to just navigate life, whatever
21:05
Speaker 2: state you're in, as best you can. In that statement,
21:09
Speaker 2: especially when it's around people you love, like you know,
21:13
Speaker 2: you felt, which I'm sure you talk to or you
21:15
Speaker 2: will talk to him, but you felt like you hadn't
21:17
Speaker 2: been the best person for Scott, and you're feeling a
21:21
Speaker 2: little bit of guilt or regret around that, you know. Yeah,
21:26
Speaker 2: that's the world's biggest club. Yeah, you know. I'd drive
21:29
Speaker 2: away from my mom and dad yesterday going and I
21:32
Speaker 2: spent all day up there. I spent you know, like
21:35
Speaker 2: I've said before, it's four and a half hours of driving,
21:37
Speaker 2: and then I spent all day there and I drive
21:39
Speaker 2: home thinking about maybe I should have done this, I
21:42
Speaker 2: should have done that. But you know what, I think,
21:44
Speaker 2: the fact that you think like that means you're not
21:47
Speaker 2: a shit person.
21:49
Speaker 1: I think. What challenges me and also is insightful to
21:58
Speaker 1: me or plexing is the emotional the intellectual lag that
22:05
Speaker 1: I still experience. And I know I've talked about this.
22:07
Speaker 1: It's interesting because a lot of things I have talked
22:10
Speaker 1: about in the past and then you come to a
22:12
Speaker 1: different time of life and you still have a huge
22:15
Speaker 1: degree of experiencing them. So one is the intellectual lag
22:20
Speaker 1: between the emotional experience and the lack of maybe really
22:27
Speaker 1: feeling the emotions that are happening. So there's so for me,
22:29
Speaker 1: it's like it's there's a sense of I guess it's emotion,
22:37
Speaker 1: but it doesn't feel like emotion. It's it's an energy.
22:40
Speaker 1: So there's an energy that comes with me when I
22:42
Speaker 1: get overwhelmed, and then there's a behavior that eventuates from that,
22:48
Speaker 1: and then it's not until I get out, get some
22:51
Speaker 1: space and then reflect on what might have gone on.
22:55
Speaker 1: And I find that interesting and I find it perplexing
22:59
Speaker 1: to go, how do we how do we understand our emotions?
23:04
Speaker 1: And how accurately are we is the story that we
23:09
Speaker 1: build around it, because all we do is look at evidence.
23:12
Speaker 1: I go, oh, I've done this before I think this
23:16
Speaker 1: was what was going on. I think I was a
23:18
Speaker 1: shitty person was obviously I was overwhelmed. I didn't realize
23:20
Speaker 1: that I felt like that. But now I'm away from it,
23:24
Speaker 1: I feel a big sense of that emotion. I feel
23:28
Speaker 1: like grief and fear and then some guilt and shame
23:35
Speaker 1: for how I am or aunt in the moment. Like
23:39
Speaker 1: there's a third layer that I've been grappling with a
23:41
Speaker 1: lot lately, which is like the idea of grief after
23:47
Speaker 1: Ben taking his life last year, which was six months
23:51
Speaker 1: ago now, and I look at that. I coached him
23:55
Speaker 1: every single day, we spoke every single day, and now
23:58
Speaker 1: he's not here anymore, and have been having I think
24:03
Speaker 1: about him a lot more lately than I did before,
24:05
Speaker 1: and I'm still waiting to understand what is emotionally going
24:09
Speaker 1: on with that.
24:11
Speaker 2: Wow. Wow, Wow, that's a lot. Okay, But can we
24:17
Speaker 2: just start from the beginning again, I should have really
24:22
Speaker 2: been paying attention. Sorry, my duddy, what did you say? All? Right,
24:27
Speaker 2: here we go, So let's go backwards a little bit.
24:30
Speaker 2: So let's start from the finish while that's fresh and
24:33
Speaker 2: musk on. So, so with Ben, grief, obviously, grief is normal.
24:43
Speaker 2: Obviously one of the roles that you had. One of
24:46
Speaker 2: the roles was to support him to you know, grow
24:51
Speaker 2: and find a version of happiness and function. And you know,
24:58
Speaker 2: but I think one everything that you could do, you know,
25:04
Speaker 2: within reason. I think everything you could do you did.
25:07
Speaker 2: You supported him, you loved him. You it went way
25:10
Speaker 2: more beyond client in that the level of care wasn't
25:14
Speaker 2: just a client and a coach or a mentor. It
25:17
Speaker 2: was more than that. The availability and the access that
25:22
Speaker 2: will existed between you two. So you were very much
25:26
Speaker 2: you can call me any time, it doesn't matter, you
25:28
Speaker 2: won't be charged. I'm here because I care about you,
25:32
Speaker 2: not because I want your dough. So I think that's
25:34
Speaker 2: evidence that you don't need to feel guilty. You feeling
25:38
Speaker 2: grief is to be expected. And as you know, it's like, yeah,
25:42
Speaker 2: the level of grief maybe that you have in the
25:44
Speaker 2: first three or four months is not the same level
25:49
Speaker 2: as you have in month five or six. And that's
25:51
Speaker 2: because that's because I think initially we are somewhat more
25:57
Speaker 2: emotionally disconnected at the beginning, like we just can't fucking
26:02
Speaker 2: deal and I've got other things I just you know,
26:04
Speaker 2: But then I think it settles and you're like, oh,
26:07
Speaker 2: it is he's actually not here. Is he's not coming back?
26:12
Speaker 2: That is I'll never have another conversation if him, I'll
26:14
Speaker 2: never get another text that will. Then you know, there's that.
26:18
Speaker 2: And grief happens differently for different people, in different stages,
26:24
Speaker 2: at different times, in different ways. It manifests differently. There
26:28
Speaker 2: is no way, there's no in inverted Commas way to grieve.
26:32
Speaker 2: There's no better and worse, there's no four step plan.
26:36
Speaker 2: Some people are hysterical for the first month or two
26:39
Speaker 2: and that's how their nervous system and body and emotional
26:42
Speaker 2: system and mind respond. And that's not good or bad.
26:45
Speaker 2: It's not fun, of course, but it's just where they're at.
26:48
Speaker 2: So we don't judge them. We support them. So people weaving,
26:52
Speaker 2: you can't fucking greeves a long way. It's like one
26:56
Speaker 2: of my friends, I've told this story before, but his
26:58
Speaker 2: dad died a little bit unexpected, so he just had
27:03
Speaker 2: to well, he felt he had to step up and
27:05
Speaker 2: just he needed to be the fixture and the person
27:09
Speaker 2: doing everything. And he did that beautifully, and he supported
27:11
Speaker 2: the family and he got the family as much as
27:15
Speaker 2: he could through that time. Blah, blah blah blah. But
27:17
Speaker 2: one of the pieces that we spoke a week or
27:20
Speaker 2: two after the funeral, and one of the pieces of
27:23
Speaker 2: feedback that he got from more than a couple of
27:25
Speaker 2: people was that you're basically you've got your head in
27:29
Speaker 2: the sand, and that he needed to cry. He hadn't
27:32
Speaker 2: cried yet. I'm like, ah, dude, I go, I know,
27:37
Speaker 2: I know you're sad. I go, but you're right, Like really,
27:40
Speaker 2: you and me, You're right. He's like, yeah, I'm sad,
27:44
Speaker 2: I'm real sad. I know you know, but I don't
27:46
Speaker 2: have any compulsion to cry. And probably at some stage
27:50
Speaker 2: I bought my eyes out for four days, and I'm like,
27:52
Speaker 2: you probably will and when that happens, cool. But the
27:57
Speaker 2: hilarious and very ironic thing is that people even get
28:00
Speaker 2: judgmental about the way other people breathe. I'm like, one
28:05
Speaker 2: thing he doesn't need, motherfuckers, is somebody on top of
28:08
Speaker 2: this judging the quality of his grief, Like fuck off.
28:13
Speaker 1: You know.
28:14
Speaker 2: There's that, And then back to you and the emotions
28:20
Speaker 2: and self regulation. And I think the thing is that
28:26
Speaker 2: the challenge is to know that one emotions hijack you,
28:32
Speaker 2: like they're not logical, which is why they're not called
28:35
Speaker 2: thoughts or logic or reason. Emotions are you know, sometimes
28:41
Speaker 2: they make sense, of course, but from the outside looking in.
28:45
Speaker 2: But they always make sense when you know what's going
28:48
Speaker 2: on deep down, right, That emotion manifests for a reason
28:51
Speaker 2: that most people might not be aware of. I think
28:55
Speaker 2: the challenge, or one of the many challenges, that this
28:58
Speaker 2: is a very intertwined complex, complicated, big as they would
29:02
Speaker 2: call in science problem, not in the sense that we
29:05
Speaker 2: use problem, but area of research. Right, is that trying
29:09
Speaker 2: to be the way that you need to be, trying
29:12
Speaker 2: to maintain your logic and reason in the middle of
29:15
Speaker 2: what you feel. There's a big space between what am
29:19
Speaker 2: I feeling? But what do I need to be doing
29:22
Speaker 2: now despite how I feel? Because if my behaviors and
29:28
Speaker 2: actions and reactions are always dictated by my emotions, I
29:33
Speaker 2: am not going to be a great person to be
29:34
Speaker 2: around at times, which is every one of us anyway.
29:39
Speaker 2: But I think that my little, not very closely related
29:43
Speaker 2: but somewhat similar analogy is getting up on a stage
29:48
Speaker 2: and feeling unworthy and feeling not goo and feeling scared
29:52
Speaker 2: and feeling like my fucking my heart is going to
29:56
Speaker 2: jump out of my mouth and feeling like my fucking
29:59
Speaker 2: fingers tingly, and you know, just having this hype but
30:04
Speaker 2: vigilant kind of thing, right, And I feel not good enough,
30:08
Speaker 2: but I intellectually I know I am because I've got
30:11
Speaker 2: a track, rent God, I've got daughter, I've got evidence.
30:13
Speaker 2: Am I the best? No? I'm not the best? Am
30:15
Speaker 2: I good enough? I'm good enough? And so I think
30:18
Speaker 2: being able to be aware of your emotions and not
30:21
Speaker 2: regulate your emotions necessarily, but regulate you despite your emotions,
30:28
Speaker 2: that is the you know, lug And this is not
30:33
Speaker 2: a very good piece of counsel and advice, but for me,
30:36
Speaker 2: I kind of go part of me goes, well, you
30:41
Speaker 2: don't have brothers and sisters. You've got one mom and
30:44
Speaker 2: one dad and they've got one child, and you're the child.
30:47
Speaker 2: And there's no wife in the picture, of grandchildren in
30:50
Speaker 2: the picture, or daughter in law for that matter, and
30:53
Speaker 2: so therefore you can't fucking fall apart. You need to
30:58
Speaker 2: be that can't and the chaos of which you always speak,
31:02
Speaker 2: you need to be equanimity. Don't just talk about equanimity,
31:06
Speaker 2: don't just talk about performing under pressure. This is my
31:11
Speaker 2: self coaching. I go, well, you're here. Now here's the pressure.
31:14
Speaker 2: Let me see. Here's the pressure, here's the pain, here's
31:18
Speaker 2: the emotion. Here's the thing I don't want. And I'm
31:22
Speaker 2: in the middle of the thing that I don't want.
31:25
Speaker 2: But nonetheless I need to be able to make the
31:30
Speaker 2: best of it that I can for them, not me.
31:32
Speaker 2: I at the minute, I don't really care about me,
31:35
Speaker 2: but I care much more about their emotional, mental, and
31:38
Speaker 2: medical and physical welfare, you know. So that's where my
31:42
Speaker 2: energy is. When I see my mum or my dad
31:48
Speaker 2: fearful when they were never really fearful people, I see
31:52
Speaker 2: them a bit scared or a bit like what the
31:55
Speaker 2: fuck is going on on their face? And you know,
32:00
Speaker 2: for me, I want to take that away. I want
32:03
Speaker 2: to I want to remove that pain from that, you know,
32:05
Speaker 2: which I wish. So I can't, but I think with you,
32:09
Speaker 2: like the fact that you have this awareness is great.
32:15
Speaker 2: It's just going oh here, and then next time you're
32:17
Speaker 2: in the middle of something similar realizing that, Like I
32:25
Speaker 2: had a realization on the weekend when I was doing
32:27
Speaker 2: this workshop and doctor Denise Vanessa and I were doing it,
32:31
Speaker 2: and so there were people who were Denise fans and
32:33
Speaker 2: people who were praying fans. But what I didn't really
32:37
Speaker 2: think about because it was a public workshop or a
32:40
Speaker 2: private workshop that people pay to be at, I didn't
32:44
Speaker 2: really think that. I didn't really think about the fact
32:47
Speaker 2: that some people will kind of not meaning, but a
32:49
Speaker 2: few would have no real concept of me. And so
32:55
Speaker 2: when I start, fuck shit, cop can't right or right,
32:59
Speaker 2: and and all my people like, there is there's our guy,
33:03
Speaker 2: you know, but other people like looking at each other
33:06
Speaker 2: like what have we gotten ourselves into? Who is this
33:10
Speaker 2: fucking savage? Oh, they probably wouldn't say something, And I went, oh,
33:15
Speaker 2: and I actually apologized. I apologized for how I had
33:21
Speaker 2: made an assumption about what was okay because I just
33:26
Speaker 2: had a complete lack of awareness. And then I kind
33:31
Speaker 2: of saw a few faces, and I saw two particular
33:37
Speaker 2: people that I thought were mortified, and I went up
33:40
Speaker 2: to them in the break and I said, I think
33:42
Speaker 2: I've made a mistake, and I said, dadada, and I apologize.
33:46
Speaker 2: So they went, oh, it's okay, we actually think you're funny, right,
33:50
Speaker 2: But I'm pretty sure at the start that I'm like,
33:54
Speaker 2: why why are we here? We paid a lot to
33:57
Speaker 2: be here? And those two flew from New Zealand and
34:03
Speaker 2: I'm like, they've gotten there that Oh my goodness. But anyway,
34:08
Speaker 2: I don't think that made sense. But I just think
34:10
Speaker 2: it's a lot of awareness stuff and a lot of yeap.
34:12
Speaker 2: Of Course you're fucked up. Of course you've made mistakes.
34:15
Speaker 2: Of Course you didn't respond well issue. And it's not
34:17
Speaker 2: about removing all of that from your life, because you can't.
34:22
Speaker 2: It's just about doing better around it and doing it
34:25
Speaker 2: hopefully doing out less.
34:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think, like for me at highlights, We've
34:31
Speaker 1: had a lot of conversations. I've done a lot of learning,
34:34
Speaker 1: a huge amount of evolving. I know I've evolved a lot,
34:37
Speaker 1: and I know I've developed self awareness and leaps and
34:41
Speaker 1: bounds in the right direction. But it's interesting, especially because
34:46
Speaker 1: of what you and I do in what we're doing
34:48
Speaker 1: right now. And I go you, and here's Craig, and
34:52
Speaker 1: he's got a lot of similarities to me in life,
34:57
Speaker 1: and I feel like an only child. I feel I've
35:02
Speaker 1: got a brother who's seven years older. But when I
35:05
Speaker 1: was three, my parents moved into a shop and they
35:08
Speaker 1: got seven days a week, I think seven till eight
35:14
Speaker 1: in the you know, they're busy all the time. So
35:16
Speaker 1: I felt I think that's where my independence came from.
35:19
Speaker 1: I was three or four years old. People were unavailable
35:25
Speaker 1: and busy and around, but I had to really step
35:28
Speaker 1: up and just develop this independence. And I think that's
35:32
Speaker 1: really hardwired who I've become. And I look at you
35:36
Speaker 1: and I go, but you had that's such probably an
35:39
Speaker 1: equal amount of independence and as a child, but you
35:44
Speaker 1: are so connected and selfless. And I still feel like
35:48
Speaker 1: when I observe these moments, I look at your situation,
35:52
Speaker 1: and then I look at the beginnings of my dad
35:57
Speaker 1: being seventy five and starting to age differently. And I
36:00
Speaker 1: remember a long time ago when he moved into Melbourne,
36:04
Speaker 1: or when he was working in Melbourne and he stopped working,
36:06
Speaker 1: and it was probably he started to slow down in
36:09
Speaker 1: a different way and maybe need me differently. And I
36:13
Speaker 1: felt a huge aversion to that. I felt myself pull away.
36:17
Speaker 1: And I think it's an abandonment thing. And whereas you
36:21
Speaker 1: run towards it, and I admire that, and I watch
36:26
Speaker 1: that and go, how does he run towards that? I
36:28
Speaker 1: want to run away. I want to pretend that it
36:31
Speaker 1: never existed, and I just want to get busy, like
36:35
Speaker 1: not logically and like emotional. There I go, I can
36:37
Speaker 1: see myself doing that, and that's not who I want
36:39
Speaker 1: to be. It's interesting because we often listen to these
36:43
Speaker 1: shows and it's nice to connect with people that experience
36:46
Speaker 1: something the same as us and we can learn from them.
36:48
Speaker 1: But it doesn't always like there's the danger of comparing
36:52
Speaker 1: ourselves and going and then holding guilt over that.
36:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean you could before about you know,
37:02
Speaker 2: you've learned so much so and this is not to
37:05
Speaker 2: contradict you. This is to like, I like the idea
37:09
Speaker 2: of I go, what is actually learning? Like what's the
37:13
Speaker 2: gap between acquiring knowledge and learning? Right? We know people
37:18
Speaker 2: are learning when their behavior is changing because of that knowledge,
37:23
Speaker 2: when they're creating different outcomes because of that knowledge. And
37:27
Speaker 2: that's where you are now. You know theory, you know
37:31
Speaker 2: the theory, you're just now starting to apply the theory,
37:35
Speaker 2: to apply the knowledge. To apply knowledge is how things change.
37:38
Speaker 2: Knowledge of itself is pointless from a personal growth, you know,
37:44
Speaker 2: evolution kind of point of view. If our goal is
37:47
Speaker 2: to think doing being better, create better, be a better human,
37:51
Speaker 2: you will love, be less self centered, and you know,
37:55
Speaker 2: poop better. Of course, as to start our show, like now,
37:59
Speaker 2: if all you motherfuckers. Don't apply the information about fiber
38:02
Speaker 2: and water and the squatting pody. Don't blame me when
38:05
Speaker 2: you're backed up, but it's that it is okay, you
38:10
Speaker 2: know a lot more than you did, but shown me
38:15
Speaker 2: what you are doing. Because when I see the doing,
38:19
Speaker 2: when I see the change, when I see the different
38:22
Speaker 2: outcomes and data, I'm like, she's learning. The rest is
38:27
Speaker 2: knowing and acquiring knowledge. And that's why even on the weekend,
38:33
Speaker 2: I said multiple times, and they probably get sick of me,
38:37
Speaker 2: but I'm like a bone with a dog with this
38:41
Speaker 2: concept that you know whether or not you get inspired
38:47
Speaker 2: this weekend, which is what you know, or you have
38:49
Speaker 2: twenty six fucking light bulbs moments, or the niece blows
38:52
Speaker 2: your socks off with every research, or I blow your
38:55
Speaker 2: socks off with my research in my PhD. But all
39:00
Speaker 2: that's good. I want you to love it. I want
39:01
Speaker 2: you to meet people, I want you to have connection,
39:04
Speaker 2: I want you to laugh, I want you to go fuck.
39:06
Speaker 2: That was a great experience. Craig's great to this, of
39:08
Speaker 2: course I do, because I'm an insecure fuck. I want
39:12
Speaker 2: you to love me at luck. But the weekend isn't
39:14
Speaker 2: about my ego or my emotional bullshit. The weekend is
39:18
Speaker 2: really about this being a catalyst for you to do different,
39:22
Speaker 2: to create the difference. Sadly, I think most people at
39:26
Speaker 2: most workshops or personal development processes, irrespective of who's running it,
39:32
Speaker 2: what it's about, I think the vast majority do not
39:39
Speaker 2: apply most of what they hear. Firstly, they don't remember.
39:43
Speaker 2: You can't apply what you don't remember. So if you
39:46
Speaker 2: go to workshops, record it, take lots of notes, whatever
39:49
Speaker 2: you can do, because you can't operationalize what you can remember.
39:53
Speaker 2: But what I care about is, and I never do this,
39:57
Speaker 2: but I gave everyone in that group it wasn't a
39:59
Speaker 2: big group because it was a very expensive program, twenty
40:04
Speaker 2: five people or something. I gave everyone my personal email
40:09
Speaker 2: and I don't remember do that never ever, ever, And
40:12
Speaker 2: I said, the reason I'm doing this is because I
40:14
Speaker 2: want you to send me. So now I'm going to
40:17
Speaker 2: give you a little bit of accountability. So you go. Fuck,
40:20
Speaker 2: I've got to send Craig an email in a week
40:22
Speaker 2: and tell it what I'm doing, what I'm not doing,
40:24
Speaker 2: and how I'm going. I don't want to report on
40:26
Speaker 2: whether you said, well, if you won't tell me, if
40:28
Speaker 2: you thought I was great or shit, that's cool, But
40:30
Speaker 2: that's not the point. The point is what are you
40:32
Speaker 2: doing now? It's a week after the workshop. You're still
40:36
Speaker 2: the same human with the same goals. You're still you know,
40:39
Speaker 2: are you really changing that thinking and those habits and
40:42
Speaker 2: that behavior. Are you really changing or are you just
40:46
Speaker 2: booking in for another workshop? Are you just listening to
40:49
Speaker 2: another rhem? Are you just reading another inspirational paragraph? All
40:53
Speaker 2: those things are great, but none of them are changed,
40:57
Speaker 2: none of them are growth.
41:04
Speaker 1: Like, at what point do you reckon or is there
41:08
Speaker 1: a point that insight becomes avoidance?
41:17
Speaker 2: X Y mean, what do you mean by that insight
41:19
Speaker 2: becomes so you know something so you think you've figured
41:23
Speaker 2: it out or yeah.
41:24
Speaker 1: Like chasing the intellectual story, developing a story and then
41:31
Speaker 1: maybe avoiding like intellectualizing things, but maybe not translating that
41:38
Speaker 1: into stepping into the emotion or like feeling them. What
41:44
Speaker 1: is feeling an emotion? Like, how do you know some
41:46
Speaker 1: people you've got to feel You got to feel the emotion.
41:49
Speaker 2: It's like, well, you do you do?
41:52
Speaker 1: What is the process of that? How does someone you say,
41:55
Speaker 1: well I'm avoiding the emotion, Well, how do I sit
41:57
Speaker 1: and feel it. So because sometimes that thing that feels
42:02
Speaker 1: like an automatic thing that's happening, an emotion comes, you
42:06
Speaker 1: can go and get a bit like I understand the
42:08
Speaker 1: concept of busyness because I used to do that a lot,
42:11
Speaker 1: just be so busy that you don't have to actually
42:13
Speaker 1: sit and feel anything. But sometimes it's like, well, I think,
42:17
Speaker 1: like I think about Ben a lot, but I don't
42:22
Speaker 1: I'm still waiting for whatever is going to be made
42:27
Speaker 1: of that. I don't understand the meaning behind where I'm
42:29
Speaker 1: sitting with that.
42:32
Speaker 2: So I think there's three categories that underlie emotional drivers.
42:38
Speaker 2: So one is this emotion is telling me something that
42:43
Speaker 2: I need to deal with or acknowledge or dining into.
42:47
Speaker 2: It's like whenever I whatever, it's like, oh, whenever you
42:53
Speaker 2: talk about Ben, I feel a bit uncomfortent, which I don't.
42:56
Speaker 2: But let's just I feel and I don't want to
42:58
Speaker 2: keep talking about that. Da da da da da. Right,
43:01
Speaker 2: that's the emotion is for me, discomfort or resistance to
43:05
Speaker 2: the conversation, or sadness or avoidents or anxiety that I'm
43:09
Speaker 2: not all strictly speaking emotions but in the same way
43:12
Speaker 2: with us, and I'm like, what is that about? And
43:14
Speaker 2: it might be for example, well, create you had a
43:18
Speaker 2: friend to committed suicide last year and you have never
43:20
Speaker 2: spoken about that, you never talked up about it or
43:23
Speaker 2: you you know whatever, and that has happened to me, right,
43:29
Speaker 2: But that I haven't, you know, that's not that's not
43:32
Speaker 2: because of that. But it's like sometimes it's about trying
43:35
Speaker 2: to figure out what is this emotion or feeling telling me.
43:38
Speaker 2: And then when I I do a deep dive into that,
43:41
Speaker 2: I realized I do need to have a conversation, or
43:44
Speaker 2: I do need to let go of something, or I
43:46
Speaker 2: do need to have a cry or whatever that like
43:51
Speaker 2: if we went into the fact, and we won't. Maybe
43:53
Speaker 2: one day we will. But people joke about this all
43:56
Speaker 2: the time, and I guess I think I'm as transparent
43:59
Speaker 2: as I can be. But like, well, Craig, why are
44:01
Speaker 2: you sixty two in a single? Like why did you?
44:03
Speaker 2: What is that about? Like that can't just be you know,
44:06
Speaker 2: of course that as people are interested in that, and
44:09
Speaker 2: if I went down that rabbit hole and I have
44:12
Speaker 2: a bit, but but I just really don't have it
44:15
Speaker 2: in desire. It's not that, it's just that I kind
44:18
Speaker 2: of like my life. But then there's the other one.
44:21
Speaker 2: Not Not all emotions are trying to teach you something.
44:24
Speaker 2: Some emotions are literally a handbrake, where it's really just
44:30
Speaker 2: fear dressed up in fifteen different outfits. Like anxiety is fear,
44:33
Speaker 2: Self doubt is fear, self loathing is fear. Avoid it
44:37
Speaker 2: is fear. You know, responding to people irrationally is fear.
44:42
Speaker 2: It's self defense. Like, there are so many emotions that
44:46
Speaker 2: are essentially, you know, label different things, but they are
44:51
Speaker 2: they are about the same thing, you know, procrastination, all
44:54
Speaker 2: of that stuff. And then there's the other one, the
44:57
Speaker 2: third group. For me that it's like then neither here
45:00
Speaker 2: nor there, but I think there is. Emotions are. I
45:06
Speaker 2: think emotions are for the most part, not irrational. They
45:10
Speaker 2: can be. But even the ones that you go, oh, fuck,
45:14
Speaker 2: how your level of reaction, Your response was totally disproportionate
45:20
Speaker 2: to the problem. But like, that's just illogical. Well through
45:25
Speaker 2: your window, it's so logical. But if you knew the trauma,
45:30
Speaker 2: the grief, the fucking darkness that that person has been
45:34
Speaker 2: through that you haven't been through, then you would go, oh, actually,
45:39
Speaker 2: that level of response makes total sense based on what
45:43
Speaker 2: I now know historically about this very different to me
45:48
Speaker 2: person sitting across the table from me, right, So everything
45:53
Speaker 2: makes sense at a level, even what seems to you. Know,
45:57
Speaker 2: you see somebody who's delusion or going through psychosis, if
46:04
Speaker 2: you knew, if you truly understood where they are as in,
46:09
Speaker 2: you could step into that experience for five minutes, then
46:13
Speaker 2: come out and be you again. Right now, you'd be like,
46:15
Speaker 2: oh fuck, I totally get it. Right. But we're always
46:19
Speaker 2: analyzing people's state, emotions, responses through our window of what
46:27
Speaker 2: we would do. Well, I wouldn't do that, So what
46:30
Speaker 2: the fuck is wrong with her? Well, if you were her,
46:34
Speaker 2: which you once, you would do that. So we're not
46:37
Speaker 2: trying to judge or value or diagnose people. We're trying
46:43
Speaker 2: to truly understand where the behavior comes from. And it's
46:47
Speaker 2: like when I get messages that are horrible sometimes and
46:52
Speaker 2: they hurt my feelings because I'm human, But I'm sure
46:56
Speaker 2: if I met that person and I spoke to them
47:02
Speaker 2: for an hour, I could figure out where it's coming from,
47:05
Speaker 2: and then based on that, I still wouldn't love it,
47:08
Speaker 2: but I would understand it. You know, there's that thing
47:10
Speaker 2: that that well worn kind of cliche that you and
47:14
Speaker 2: I have willed out too much, which is seek first
47:18
Speaker 2: to understand, like it doesn't say it, seek first to
47:22
Speaker 2: be understood because it's not about you, like if you're
47:26
Speaker 2: trying to really build you know. It's like you and
47:30
Speaker 2: I went through a time when we were spoken about
47:32
Speaker 2: this where for a little while, you know, we had
47:35
Speaker 2: about I don't know, well a month or so of
47:39
Speaker 2: like not great. We both had issues, we both had bullshit,
47:42
Speaker 2: and we both neither of us were behaving well. It
47:47
Speaker 2: wasn't terrible. It wasn't we weren't yelling or screaming anyone,
47:50
Speaker 2: there was no but there was just this disconnect. But
47:54
Speaker 2: then when we had a talk, I told you things,
47:57
Speaker 2: you told me things. I think you had a bit
48:00
Speaker 2: of a light bulb. I had a bit of a
48:01
Speaker 2: light bulb and I went, ah, well that makes sense
48:08
Speaker 2: based on me looking through TIFF's window. I get it.
48:13
Speaker 2: It's like one of my my things is I don't
48:16
Speaker 2: trust people quickly. I trust some people, of course, and
48:23
Speaker 2: I don't immediately distrust people. They're just didn't kind of
48:27
Speaker 2: trust limbo. It's like, no, you're going to be on
48:31
Speaker 2: the trust limbo shelf until I know. I'm not talking
48:35
Speaker 2: about acquaintances at workshops. I'm not talking about you know,
48:40
Speaker 2: minor interaction, but not that, but like the opening the
48:44
Speaker 2: door of my heart and my life. Yeah, good luck
48:47
Speaker 2: with that. That is not a quick process, as you
48:49
Speaker 2: know it, right, it's not a quick process. But I
48:53
Speaker 2: but if you realized, you know, I don't want to
48:57
Speaker 2: bang up. But some of the things that that people
48:59
Speaker 2: don't I loved have done to me, mainly financially stealing money,
49:05
Speaker 2: telling lie. I've been very strategic pretending they're my friend
49:09
Speaker 2: when they're not my friend. I'm some kind of valuable
49:12
Speaker 2: strategic alliance to them. And when my value ran out,
49:15
Speaker 2: they disappeared out of my life. I'm like, oh, I
49:19
Speaker 2: didn't love me at all. They just loved what I
49:21
Speaker 2: could provide. Now, that happens to lots of people, but
49:26
Speaker 2: there's that oh so you get my backstory. And now
49:30
Speaker 2: it's like it's almost an insult when people go, oh,
49:33
Speaker 2: you've got issues. Well, one, we've all got fucking issues,
49:35
Speaker 2: and two I do have issues, but maybe be a
49:38
Speaker 2: little bit more compassionate, like this is not shit. I
49:42
Speaker 2: just made up. This is not shit, you just made up.
49:45
Speaker 2: Everybody's got what we're trying to do is when we
49:49
Speaker 2: understand people as best we can, and of course it
49:52
Speaker 2: is very difficult, but maybe even just gain more insight,
49:58
Speaker 2: you know. My whole research about understanding how others see
50:03
Speaker 2: us and how others think and how others like. What
50:08
Speaker 2: is what is this person's reality, like their lived experience?
50:13
Speaker 2: What is their lived moment to moment's story and feeling
50:16
Speaker 2: and emotion and reality because it isn't mine. So when
50:20
Speaker 2: I judge theirs through my lens or my standards or
50:24
Speaker 2: mine whatever, I'm being completely disconnected. There's no empathy because
50:31
Speaker 2: I'm judging them based on what I would do or
50:34
Speaker 2: not do. There's just judgment. Empathy is trying to understand
50:39
Speaker 2: somebody and not necessarily agree with it, but just to
50:44
Speaker 2: understand it, even with thinks, even with bad behavior that
50:47
Speaker 2: we won't I want to know. I want to know
50:51
Speaker 2: about that person. I could even really fucking dislike somebody,
50:57
Speaker 2: and I could hate what they do or I could
51:00
Speaker 2: hate what they stand for, but I want to understand
51:04
Speaker 2: them because we can't overcome what we can't understand, you know.
51:09
Speaker 2: And it's like, well, if there are bad people doing
51:12
Speaker 2: bad shit, I want to understand their motivation, their reasons,
51:16
Speaker 2: because then I can do something about it. And it
51:18
Speaker 2: might be a one on one, or it might be
51:21
Speaker 2: people who are trying to rip off my mum and
51:23
Speaker 2: dad financially because they're old and they can't think the
51:26
Speaker 2: way that they used to. And that's I had something
51:29
Speaker 2: happened a few months ago where somebody they were dealing
51:32
Speaker 2: with rip them off. And I fixed that very quickly,
51:38
Speaker 2: and I didn't raise my voice, so I didn't threaten
51:42
Speaker 2: the person who did it. But he charged them about
51:45
Speaker 2: well one hundred dollars for something that should have been
51:48
Speaker 2: three hundred dollars. And this is old people, I'm like,
51:53
Speaker 2: and they didn't know. They just went oh okay, And
51:57
Speaker 2: moms didn't because I take care Melissa and or I
52:02
Speaker 2: take care of all the bills and stuff, and oh
52:05
Speaker 2: has that? And I'm like, which one is that? And
52:08
Speaker 2: I looked at it and I went, oh, this is
52:10
Speaker 2: this is somebody taking the piss. So I just ranked him.
52:15
Speaker 2: I was very, very very direct. I was not friendly.
52:19
Speaker 2: I was not nice, ah, but I was I was professional.
52:23
Speaker 2: I didn't elevate my voice. I didn't threaten him. I
52:27
Speaker 2: just said, you need to change that is in Latri
52:31
Speaker 2: Valley or I will come up to Latrial valley or
52:33
Speaker 2: sit down and he goes, and what and I go,
52:37
Speaker 2: we'll sit down and I go, Also, you don't want
52:41
Speaker 2: me to come up, so fix it? And he fixed
52:44
Speaker 2: it right. So there's a time I'm not trying to
52:48
Speaker 2: be but ripping off old people is not okay. You know,
52:54
Speaker 2: all that's necessary evil to triumphs for good people to
52:57
Speaker 2: do nothing. So Edmund Burke said that all that's necessary
53:01
Speaker 2: for evil to tryumph is for good people to do
53:05
Speaker 2: fuck or so do something like you don't have to
53:09
Speaker 2: spend your life being love and like unicorns and puppies
53:12
Speaker 2: and daffodils like that's cool. But we don't live in
53:15
Speaker 2: a Disney movie. There are times when being loving seems
53:18
Speaker 2: quite unloving. I don't know how we got here, Tiff,
53:24
Speaker 2: I have.
53:24
Speaker 1: Loved it, though. I think it might have been quite
53:26
Speaker 1: therapeutic for me. I can tell doctor Bill he can
53:30
Speaker 1: have the next session off.
53:32
Speaker 2: I reckon, I'll send you all Bill. Well, it's eleven
53:38
Speaker 2: thirty ish. I'm going to go for a walk and
53:40
Speaker 2: they're going to meet somewhere at twelve thirty. Haven't chatted
53:43
Speaker 2: to them, And then I've got a UNI supervision meeting.
53:48
Speaker 2: I'm on the home straight, couldn't be more instarted. And
53:52
Speaker 2: then you and I are interviewing David James, Kevin Patrick
53:57
Speaker 2: Gillestie at seventeen to thirty this afternoon. Ah, it's a
54:03
Speaker 2: solid day.
54:04
Speaker 1: It is a solid day, solid day.
54:07
Speaker 2: And I will give you the insight that when you
54:10
Speaker 2: rang in before that said do you want to do
54:12
Speaker 2: with you and me? One, I had just got out
54:15
Speaker 2: of the shower and I was fucking clean as a
54:18
Speaker 2: whistle right away after my ema at em early morning evacuation.
54:27
Speaker 2: You're welcome because I have enough fight. Ah, And I
54:31
Speaker 2: was just I just got clean, dry, got dressed. I went, fuck,
54:34
Speaker 2: I'm just going to lie on my bed for a minute.
54:36
Speaker 2: I'm going to watch ten minutes something fucking three minutes
54:39
Speaker 2: in fucking Chipmunk Rings one. I'm like I should, but
54:46
Speaker 2: I don't want to. But I was quite non committal,
54:50
Speaker 2: wasn't I?
54:51
Speaker 1: Yes, Yes, I was like, you don't have to just
54:52
Speaker 1: low that I'm available. Yeah, what you will?
54:56
Speaker 2: I went, yeah? So I rang you back about seven
54:59
Speaker 2: minutes later. But I'm a big boy pant sucked turned
55:02
Speaker 2: off Netflix like a fucking netsa. You do a sign job,
55:07
Speaker 2: love you everyone. I hope you got something out of that.
55:11
Speaker 2: To all the people who turned up turned off after
55:13
Speaker 2: the Pooh Talk, you really missed out and you're not
55:15
Speaker 2: hearing this, but anyway, maybe one of your good friends
55:18
Speaker 2: will tell you.
55:21
Speaker 1: Thanks Harp, Thanks everyone, See y'all,