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Unlocking Leadership Potential: Conscious Communication with Jason Jones · Speak In Flow

0:01
Melinda Lee: Hello dear listeners, welcome to the speak
0:04
in flow podcast, where we share unique experiences to help you
0:09
unleash your leadership voice. Today, we have an amazing,
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amazing leader, Conscious Communication Coach, Jason
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Jones. Hi, Jason.
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Jason Jones: Hi, Melinda, so great to be on your podcast. I
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mean, I've been looking forward to this. Me too. It's so great
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to connect. Again, I've known you for quite a while you've
0:31
been a conscious communication coach for over a decade now. So
0:35
before we even dive into the meat of it, which is going to be
0:37
great all about asking the right questions to influence people.
0:41
I'm curious, how did conscious communications coach get born?
0:47
It's an amazing title. And that become a thing? Yeah, it will.
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It was definitely, it was definitely an evolution because
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I was my former title. I was like business coaching, and
0:58
doing business coaching. And what I discovered is that I was
1:03
doing lots and lots of strategy with people do this strategy,
1:07
try this technique, try this, this has worked, do all that.
1:10
And I found it to be I would say, oh, effective, like maybe
1:16
half of the time. And I started to look and recognise that there
1:20
were other, there were barriers for people that weren't the
1:24
strategy, it wasn't the thing to do, the barriers were more
1:29
within them. And the conscious aspect comes out. Because the
1:33
way that I focus on communication coaching is
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developing someone's ability to be able to see someone else for
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what is happening for someone else. Mm, which is distinct from
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what is the normative behaviour, which is I project onto you what
1:54
and who I think you are, Melinda, and I make all kinds of
1:59
assumptions about how you look about how you dress about what
2:02
you say, and I treat all those assumptions, like it's the
2:05
truth. And then I talked to you that way, right. And that
2:09
produces a certain kind of experience. And most of the
2:12
time, it can be an OK, experience, it could also be a
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not so good experience, because I'm not actually seeing you,
2:19
Melinda, I'm seeing all the assumptions that I have about
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you. And when you're communicating in a conscious
2:25
way. That is you're putting effort into understanding who
2:30
you're speaking to, and understand where they're coming
2:34
from, in an effort to look at their reality. So you understand
2:39
the context in the world they're living in. Yeah, informs what to
2:44
say to them and informs where the conversation goes, what
2:47
there is to share. It's interesting, because like, I
2:50
mean, cuz I think all the people here the audience members were
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exceptional, were great leaders. So we can go in with these
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assumptions. I think, Oh, I know this person. I believe I know
3:02
this person. And you're saying that I see even if I believe
3:05
that think that they're I'm probably still going in with
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assumptions. Well, we always do and and so when I'm not saying
3:13
I'm not saying for example, like that I don't operate under any
3:17
assumptions at all. I have transcended that note. That mean
3:20
there is we're human beings, right. And this is how we sort
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and compartmentalise It's how our brain works. It's how we, we
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have to put things in categories so that we understand it.
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However, what happens, Melinda is when you put the effort into
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witnessing and trying to see the person as they're showing up
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without judgement, without assessment, without evaluation,
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without wondering, what are they above me below me? Where are
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they? Where do I fit with them? Without all setting all of that
3:52
aside? And just looking for and listening for who is it? I mean,
3:58
who can trip us up? But like, like, who? Yeah, who is it? That
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is like really showing up? You're the person. And when you
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put the effort into your communication that way and into
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witnessing and seeing people that way? They experience you
4:15
differently, because what happens is they become seen.
4:20
Melinda Lee: I love that because let's face it, I mean, every day
4:25
I change every day, that person probably is changing. We every
4:31
day is different. Every moment is different. So why not look at
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that moment as a new moment?
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Jason Jones: Yeah. Oh, yeah. You got it right on. Yeah. If we can
4:43
if we can run with this a little bit. Yeah. I'm thinking of like,
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imagine this as, like, let's say, intimate partner, like your
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romantic partner, spouse, partner, like the person you
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live with. You're with them every day, right? Right. Now
4:58
what typically happens in a relationship like you meet
5:02
somebody new, you're really attracted to them. They're
5:05
amazing, right? And in those moments, yes, you're probably
5:08
projecting what you want them to be on them. But you're also
5:11
really paying attention. You're paying attention to like, Oh,
5:14
that's cool, or, well, I don't know, when you're avoiding. You
5:16
don't want that kind of guy, or that or I want to watch out for
5:19
this red flag, and you're really like really looking and really
5:22
listening. And then after a while, you get comfortable with
5:25
each other. And then you say, Okay, well, let's, you know,
5:28
let's be committed. And then yeah, now you're committed. So
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it's like, oh, you relax a little bit. And then you've been
5:33
together for a few years. And then suddenly, they do
5:37
something. And you're like, Where'd this come from? You
5:41
don't like jam? You. But I didn't. I didn't think you'd
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like trucks. Right? Because you've we stopped seeing the
5:50
other person as they have grown. And we're seeing the person that
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we got the assessment of in those first times together,
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totally. But all that we actually listen for, is what we
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know. So then when something when you feel blindsided, when
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they're different when they change, same thing in work.
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Like, why is Tom why Tom act that way, Tom say that, like,
6:15
what's what, Tom, he's not being the way we expect him to be kind
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of thing. And then we get what we get agitated, like, well,
6:22
what's going on, or there's a problem, there's a problem with
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Tom or we got to get in the way, but it gets into we got to do
6:27
something, right. And the only thing there is to do Melinda is
6:30
to slow down and go see what's going on with Tom today. Who is
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Tom today?
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Melinda Lee: a good reminder. Today, I just was agitated
6:41
today. And you know, slow down, it's a great reminder to slow
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down and see what's happening with Tom asked the right
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questions.
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Jason Jones: Yeah, that world and get present to the world.
6:55
Melinda Lee: So what if I'm a team leader, and I have an idea,
6:59
and I want my team to come on board, and I present my ideas.
7:03
And then there's resistance like, we've been in that
7:06
situation before where they're like, hmmm, I'm not sure. I
7:08
don't know if I want to do this, like,
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Jason Jones: sure. Well, the first thing that I would invite
7:12
that team leader to do is do not go in cold. And if they're if
7:16
you're going to be asking them to change things about what
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they're going to be doing, that's going to be disruptive to
7:22
them. Because we know that any kind of change is disruptive to
7:24
people, there is no good change. Even if you throw a surprise
7:28
birthday for somebody majorly stressful. Like it is like first
7:32
terror and then happiness that it's all their friends that said
7:35
surprise, right? Because like people hate surprises, like hate
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surprise, as a norm. They do they like things predictable.
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And for the most part, you know, kind of generalised? So you're
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you're going to set yourself up for resistance, if you go in
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with you like a cold presentation, right? Right, and
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say, Okay, this is what we're going to do. And let me tell you
8:03
why it's going to be great, right? Looking at their faces,
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and you're going like, why aren't they smiling? They This
8:08
is really good. Let me know, let me keep talking and tell you why
8:11
this is good. And I'm really excited. It's like, Well, I'm
8:14
glad you're bought in. But I'm not feeling it over here. And
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what's missing Melinda is that you're coming in with a great
8:21
idea to change the stuff that I do. But I feel invisible in that
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I feel I feel unseen. All this has happened away from me. I was
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not involved, or I was very minimally involved, right? And
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so if you're going to come in with a change, then what would
8:38
make sense would be to send out an email and ask one or two very
8:43
open ended questions about those things, or about the aspects of
8:50
their job that are going to be affected by the change? How do
8:54
you feel about and feel is very important. How do you not think,
8:58
but feel? How do you feel about this particular workflow or this
9:04
particular process? Or, you know, what, what is this kind of
9:09
thing? This does two things. One, it gives you an idea of
9:12
like where they're at, so you know, the listening that you're
9:15
speaking into, so that you can connect with what they're
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thinking as they're listening to you. The other thing it does is
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it gives them an opportunity to actually process how they feel
9:26
about those things. And then like for instance, if it's
9:29
really inefficient and ineffective, and it actually
9:32
makes more work for people for an example. And this is a
9:35
streamline process. If they process that out in a note for
9:39
you. It's like, well, it's all right. But you know, it'd be
9:41
better if it was like this, or if that we didn't have to do
9:43
that or whatever. And they're being candid. If you're an
9:46
environment where people feel safe, to be candid with their
9:49
direct reports, that's something to keep in mind. There has to be
9:51
a level of safety for this kind of sharing, but even it's still
9:54
valuable to send out that questionnaire because then they
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are going to have a chance to process it in their minds before
10:02
they are blindsided with it with your exciting news. Guess what
10:07
we're doing this and it's gonna be like that. And it's like
10:10
that's different and different is like really disruptive. So
10:13
they've had some time to pre process. Now they actually are
10:17
in a place that you can start engaging them with what's going
10:21
on, instead of kind of being met with maybe stony faced people or
10:26
like, Yea, or just giving you what they think they need to
10:29
give you get out of the meeting and go grumble among themselves,
10:33
about what you know what that is. Because that there's going
10:38
the resistance will not stop at the end of the meeting, even
10:41
though the train is going with that change. There will be
10:45
suffering, and there will be conflict, and there will be
10:49
issues with employees that are related to that that will show
10:52
up in different aspects of the relationship.
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Melinda Lee: And how do you Oh, so that email that initial email
10:58
is so crucial. I think I mean, that's, I think, like you
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mentioned, maybe not all leaders will do that. And it's part
11:05
it's, it's such a huge part. And is it do you recommend that they
11:10
reach out to every single team member? And also, I think like
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the questions that you said, how you feel about it is like so
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important, because I think it's there's a difference between
11:21
interrogation like, they might think they're asking me these
11:25
questions how I frame the answer is going to be crucial. So I
11:30
think going back to do we ask the whole team and all the team
11:33
members? And also how do we bring safety? Because I think
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that's a huge part so that they answer in a way that's
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authentic, right? And not in a way that's contrived, because
11:42
they think change might be happening. If I say the wrong
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answer, yes, or no,
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Jason Jones: those I mean, those are two different those are,
11:50
those are like safety is a whole nother podcast, we can we can
11:54
touch on it. But it truly is like this psychological safety.
11:58
Like none of this other stuff works unless people feel
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physically and psychologically safe. We make the assumption
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that like, Oh, you look safe at work looks like but that that
12:08
actually that it's a low bar, right? Because it's like, if
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they're being reactive to anything that comes up that this
12:16
change can't be good, then they're not safe, there isn't a
12:20
culture of safety that's present. So first, your
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question, though, is who gets it, who gets the questions, or
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anybody who's being affected by the change.
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Because by by actually sharing out loud how they feel about it,
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allows them to release how they feel about it, which can create
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an opening in them to feel differently about it, when you
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actually present and process with it. Because here's
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Unknown: the big thing that's that is really missing. And so
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much of this kind of communication, and wanting
12:52
people to move with a new plan is that we have to give people
12:55
time to integrate the change, or they're always going to be
13:00
pushing against all their feelings about the past, and all
13:03
of their all of their feelings about it that may not be
13:05
relevant. And they may not even want to have those feelings
13:07
about it. But they're going to be there. And then they're going
13:10
to manifest in different disruptive ways that you can't
13:13
put a finger on, because you won't know that was because we
13:16
changed this process last month. Now you're doing this, which is
13:19
in a different context, right? But it's like it's when the
13:22
integration isn't there. So everybody gets the questions
13:25
that are and, and the questions can be like, Hey, this is just
13:30
for, we just want to understand where you're at, and, and how
13:34
you're feeling about like how things are working to inform our
13:37
decisions. Well, that intent creates safety, because it's
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saying, I want to take you into consideration and your feelings
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and your experience in the decisions I'm making that
13:49
establishes a context of safety and appreciation and being seen
13:54
and include it even though I didn't come until ask Melinda,
13:57
you give me the best plan for this, you know, I didn't ask you
14:00
to do it. But I'm getting your input on it. And then they pre
14:04
process it by by sharing with you and an email would be easy
14:10
and efficient. And then when you come in and you present it, the
14:14
presentation is followed by a integral, a discussion. And the
14:19
discussion is for the intention of integrating what is going to
14:23
happen and how it's going to affect people and integrating
14:26
their feelings about it. Because human beings are driven by
14:30
feelings. We go feelings out of business will work with robots,
14:34
because humans are driven by feelings. So the more that
14:38
you're into helping people to integrate their feelings, that's
14:41
what the less resistance, you'll get for things that shouldn't
14:45
this change is not a big deal. Why are people acting like it
14:48
is? Well, it's because their resistance is rising because
14:52
they didn't have an opportunity to actually integrate the change
14:55
and how they felt about it and hold it and the way they
14:58
integrate that is by processing sharing with each other sharing
15:01
out loud sharing, sharing, sharing how this happens,
15:05
typically when it's not facilitated by leadership, is it
15:08
people go away from the meeting? And then they talk amongst
15:11
themselves?
15:11
Melinda Lee: Right, right.
15:12
Jason Jones: But depending on the culture and how either
15:15
healthy or toxic it is, they either commiserate, if it's a
15:18
really healthy culture, and people feel they feel safe and
15:21
happy, they generally do the integrating amongst themselves.
15:27
But you bring it into the process, then then it feels like
15:32
management. And the team is actually doing that plus, what
15:36
comes out of that integration is going to be really informative,
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to the leaders of the people they're working with, they're
15:42
going to actually see what's happening within their people
15:45
that can inform their decisions about how to work with the
15:48
people, because they're getting into their worlds, because
15:52
we're, you know, talking about silos, we're all siloed in our
15:54
heads, and when leaders only talk to leaders and like, cook
15:58
up an idea, and then they roll it out, then they're going to be
16:02
coming up against resistance all the time. Right, right. I hear
16:06
from leaders, my clients, they go, Well, we've given them time
16:10
to process, we've answered all their questions, and they're
16:13
still resistant. From the leaders perspective, what does
16:18
that mean? It feels like given them time to process so they
16:22
they've given them time to discuss it in meetings over and
16:25
over several times already. And so from the leaders perspective,
16:29
leaders like, Okay, we've already talked about this went
16:32
like there was more wanting to move forward, because they feel
16:36
like the they're still the people, the members or don't
16:40
want to move forward, they're still rich. So what that tells
16:43
me Melinda, is that the processing, no one was heard in
16:48
the processing. And so here's here's a really important
16:52
distinction about human beings for leaders right now, is that
16:56
if somebody comes in and wants to be able to tell you how wrong
17:01
everything is about how things are working, and how they're
17:05
going, and how they would like it to be, they don't necessarily
17:09
for for that to be a win and for them to reintegrate into the
17:13
processes, that is the plan that everyone is working, you don't
17:18
need to agree with them or adopt all their ideas. And there is
17:23
this there is this resistance like, well, if I let them say
17:26
it, then I gotta do something about it, the doing about it, is
17:31
hearing it, understanding it and empathising, with their
17:35
experience, and letting them get it all out. This releases all
17:40
that stuff. And you know, what happens when they release all
17:43
these feelings, these thoughts and all that? You know, what
17:47
happens? The resistance, yeah.
17:51
Melinda Lee: Right. Right. That makes sense. That makes a lot of
17:55
sense.
17:56
Jason Jones: It's really important to think in terms of
17:58
in terms of the resistance and allowing how, as a leader are
18:02
you allowing people to open and express and to release, so it
18:08
can be let go of so that we can then come together again, and an
18:13
idea, because a lot of this resistance that they're talking
18:16
about is unconscious resistance, there isn't like, let's Well,
18:19
what should we do now? Well, let's have a coach, let's have
18:21
somebody do a presentation, let's get a motivational
18:23
speaker. You know, it's like, those are external things. And
18:26
those are fine. I'm not saying they're bad ideas, but I'm
18:30
saying is that if you really want that resistance to release,
18:34
then the processing has to be an actual formal processing, like
18:38
kinda like a reconciliation. It is not not like one, it is a
18:42
reconciliation. You know, like, when South Africa did their
18:44
whole, they did a huge, big truth and reconciliation. And
18:47
they I mean, they're, they're trying to reconcile like major,
18:49
major trauma. I mean, that's like, that's, like gigantic
18:52
compared to what companies deal with, right. But what made it
18:56
work in that extreme of case is that people were heard and seen,
19:01
and when they're heard and seen, they can let go of whatever
19:04
petty, I don't like this, and I don't You're making me do that.
19:06
And all this kind of that gets released, they can let that go
19:10
and be content.
19:14
Melinda Lee: I love that. And then the resistance comes down.
19:17
Jason Jones: And then the resistance.
19:18
Melinda Lee: Yeah, because they're just they're all the
19:20
little petty stuff is all made up in their head because they
19:23
haven't felt seen or hurt. Yeah, because the mind will generate
19:27
lots of reasons. Lots of reasons why it's not going to work or
19:29
why it's not good. Why not? Yeah, yeah.
19:33
Jason Jones: Yeah, exactly. And stuff that isn't isn't
19:36
productive for anybody. And nobody feels better after it.
19:40
And they still feel unheard. And then they still feel like that
19:42
this plan was railroaded, right? Yeah. So the big question is,
19:45
how do we present this in a way so nobody feels like we're
19:48
railroading this plan. And you do it in such a way where it's
19:51
like you give them some time to pre process what's coming. You
19:55
don't have to tell them exactly, but you want to ask questions to
19:57
have them process around the change.
20:00
You're going to make and then you come in you present it, then
20:03
you do another round of processing real processing and
20:06
integration, which is them sharing how they've lost. I
20:09
don't like it, say more about that. Well, this, you know, and
20:12
then focus on feelings. How did that make you feel? Well, it
20:16
really makes me feel frustrated, because I've been doing it this
20:18
way. And I just get uncomfortable about change. I
20:20
got that. And then they hear themselves say that and go, Oh,
20:23
well, that's what that is. Right? And they're even
20:25
discovering is their you being heard and sharing. And the
20:29
leadership doesn't have to go, Okay, we're gonna rework this
20:31
whole thing based upon what everybody said, they're just
20:34
going, I'm hearing this, and maybe there is some things that
20:37
come out that might be good to tweak or change. But it's like,
20:41
it's bringing people together and allow raishin.
20:43
Melinda Lee: But so going to this, okay, I'm frustrated by
20:46
this. I'm frustrated. So they said it out loud. And sometimes
20:49
people just stay in their frustration. Like, sometimes
20:52
they're able to, like the resistance comes down. But
20:56
sometimes they're just stuck.
20:57
Jason Jones: They stay in their frustration if they're not
20:59
heard.
21:00
Melinda Lee: Like, there's times where I'm like, I hear you, I
21:04
hear your frustration. And then we just leave it there. Like, we
21:08
just hey, let's just be in this frustration. We get that I get
21:11
that. And then to transition them out of that sometimes. Even
21:17
I have maybe more conversations. Yeah, right.
21:20
Jason Jones: Yeah, the truth is, if you really want harmony,
21:25
you've got to do the work to have harmony,
21:27
Melinda Lee: maybe how can we help you get out of this
21:29
frustration? Is that good question? How can we alleviate
21:33
some of your frustration with change, then?
21:36
Jason Jones: Well, I would caution against so I would
21:39
caution against problem solving. Right? Because so first off
21:43
their frustration isn't a problem. So it's like exploring
21:49
the exploring the feeling like okay, so So what's happening?
21:53
When does this frustration come up? Is this something you feel
21:56
every day? Because by exploring it deeper with them and asking
22:01
more questions, rather than going directly to problem
22:03
solving, right? Because where we tend to want to go is like, Oh,
22:07
let me fix this for you, Melinda, then it's not we're not
22:09
we're not gonna fix anything for anybody. We're gonna say you're
22:12
capable of regulating and fixing yourself. So what we're going to
22:16
do is we're going to go, well, let's go deeper into this
22:19
frustration. And the point of doing that is not so you can
22:22
find out what you need to fix it, Melinda. It's so they can
22:25
hear for themselves what they're saying. And they get to it. Oh,
22:30
well, and then they can maybe get to like, well, I just like,
22:34
it just stresses me out whenever we change anything around here,
22:36
because it just it's just, it just does. Yeah, I got that.
22:40
Okay, well, what so what can you do to soothe yourself? Like what
22:45
would be a way to kind of like, ease that for yourself? How can
22:49
I support you in easing that for yourself?
22:52
Melinda Lee: Or like, it'd be like, how many what like, when
22:55
did that happen? When did you have when did this happen
22:57
before? That is built up this frustration? Like talk about the
23:01
different narratives that have created it before? Like you
23:04
said, asking there is a part where you can ask them, Well,
23:07
how can we how can you alleviate that, but even before that,
23:10
there might be a lot of narratives that have created
23:13
like hell Sure. To talk about that.
23:15
Jason Jones: Well, and I hear where you're, I'ma hear where
23:17
you're going with that. So my only caution is this is that the
23:22
questions I hear you asking are questions that sound like you're
23:25
trying to get the root of the problem to fix. And this isn't
23:29
actually there's actually not a problem to fix here. What there
23:33
is, is a process to let them work out whatever there is, so
23:38
they arrive for themselves at what's left. Because once you
23:46
know when someone is heard, and once they like, air out all the
23:50
stuff that they feel, then usually what they're left with,
23:55
is what the irritation is, I'll give you an example a long time
23:59
ago, I used to work in the events business. And, and I was
24:03
I was a core i was an MC I was also like coordinating the
24:07
activities in the event, I was working with catering. And we
24:10
had made some kind of change and things are going really bad for
24:13
the caterer. And the guy came up and we moved to table and he was
24:18
furious. And he just lit into me about like how I was ruining
24:23
everything for him. And so at first I was like, What the heck,
24:28
like, I'm not ruining everything for you. I'm actually making
24:31
this great for you like this is kind of where I'm at, right?
24:33
Because that's what I am there to do is to make everything flow
24:36
make everything great. But in that moment, I was able to
24:39
actually distinguish and going, Oh, he's upset. We need to have
24:45
him be upset so he can actually see what he's upset about
24:49
because with the kind of unresolved frustration that
24:52
you're talking about that is of piles of frustrations, and so we
24:58
need to get the pile expressed asked to get to the bottom. So
25:01
he was like, You're this and you're that and you made this
25:05
and you and he's like totally projecting it on me. He's
25:07
blaming me. And I'm like, that's fine, you could do that. And I
25:09
stopped processing with him. And I just said, Oh, I get that. I
25:12
hear you. What else? What else is there? What else is there for
25:16
you? What else is there? And he just kept going and going and
25:19
going, you know what happened? He was up here at like, flip
25:22
out, like you wanted to hit me with a chair. And then as he
25:24
kept talking, and I kept getting it and hearing it, it was
25:27
releasing. And so it came down and down and down, down, down.
25:31
And then he was almost call. And I was like, so I so what's the
25:35
challenge? How can I help?
25:38
He's like, I don't want that table there. So where would you
25:41
like that table? I want it over there. I'm like, great. How
25:45
would that feel? That would feel awesome. I'm like, terrific. We
25:49
moved the table. He went back to work. And there was no issues
25:53
the rest of the night. Like, you know, there was no stink eye
25:56
here. You know? Yeah. So
26:00
Melinda Lee: I love all that if I love this, this is there's so
26:04
much value nuggets. It's priceless. Priceless. This has
26:08
been so much fun. Just keep on going because there's so stay
26:13
tuned next week. I know part two with Jason Jones. I think we do
26:18
another one. But thank you so much for your valuable insight.
26:22
It's really appreciate it's always good to connect with you.
26:27
I
26:28
ya know, there's so much there's so much wisdom that you've just
26:33
shared. And I really thank you for that.
26:35
Jason Jones: So thank you. I appreciate
26:37
Melinda Lee: I mean, tell the listeners how they can get a
26:40
hold of you what's new in media programmes, like how do you
26:43
Sure? Sure, I'm easy to find. It's the name of my company is
26:47
the coaching our what we specialise in is we specialise
26:50
in transforming people's communication to shift away from
26:53
positional conversations into collaborative conversations. A
26:57
lot of what we talked about today is like in that realm of
27:00
like collaborating with people in your communication, and doing
27:04
that sort of thing. And the focus, our primary focus right
27:07
now is for fractional leaders that are transitioning into
27:11
their own consultancy, because they're like, oh my gosh, how do
27:14
I sell myself and we really specialise in helping non sales
27:18
people become really good at enrolling new business and
27:21
opportunities, not using sales speak or any of that. But by
27:24
authentically connecting and relating and being able to see
27:28
what's going on for somebody and having that awareness. And so
27:31
this is what we work on. And it's been doing amazing results
27:35
for people in their business in their lives. It's been so fun.
27:39
Yeah, yeah. Because you people see right through it if you're
27:42
not connecting with them. Oh, yeah, that was process. Yeah. So
27:46
you're done is done. You're toast.
27:48
So yeah, I love what you teach. I love I mean, I've always
27:52
learned so much from you in the past and even today, so thank
27:56
you again, Jason. Connect with Jason on the coaching and the
28:01
coaching our.com. We'll put his website in the show notes. So
28:05
thanks again. I'll see you until next time.
28:08
Jason Jones: All right. Till next time