Latest / Celeste The Therapist / Ep 467 Overcoming Systemic Issues in Mental Health Workspaces w/ Celeste The Therapist

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Ep 467 Overcoming Systemic Issues in Mental Health Workspaces w/ Celeste The Therapist · Celeste The Therapist

0:04
Hello, everybody. My name is Jacob Jones, and
0:08
I am with Celeste the Therapist. Today,
0:12
instead of Celeste hosting this show, actually,
0:15
I'll be hosting it. We had an arrangement. She
0:19
owes me. No, in all seriousness, Celeste
0:22
was actually talking to me about a recent event that
0:26
took place. And I thought it was really interesting.
0:29
I thought it would be a good idea just to talk to her about this. And
0:34
just for the record, I don't really say this publicly or where
0:38
it's being recorded, but Celeste is my older sister. So
0:41
that means, unfortunately, we're related. But I
0:45
am happy to take this time to really get
0:48
into a serious conversation about a recent experience
0:51
she had and things
0:55
that maybe she's learned from it and how to move forward. So, Celeste,
0:59
do you want to introduce yourself to my audience? Hey, everybody.
1:05
This is my brother's idea.
1:08
I thought it was a cool idea I was sharing. about
1:12
things that happen at work, and he wanted to host me. And
1:16
I feel the same that he feels. Like, unfortunately,
1:21
here's my little brother. And I don't
1:24
typically share, so since he's already put it out there, the secret's out.
1:34
I will let you start the show and we'll
1:38
get into this conversation. I do think it would be a fruitful conversation
1:42
because I know a lot of people like kind of struggle
1:45
with a lot of the different things that I
1:51
Sure, sure. Well, so Celeste, you posted something on
1:55
your social media more recently regarding the
1:58
job experience that you had. Can you can you talk a little bit
2:03
Yeah, I am. So, you know, since 2016, I've
2:10
been full time as an entrepreneur working for myself. And
2:14
I've been so far removed from working
2:18
in a community nonprofit space that,
2:22
um, I forgot what it was like back
2:25
then when I worked in these different spaces. I wasn't
2:29
familiar with systemic racism or anything, you
2:33
know, so I've been
2:36
working for myself for a few years and I work mainly with individuals outside
2:40
of the speaking engagements I do. And I started to develop
2:44
a passion for wanting to work with other clinicians
2:48
and interns just to help train them because I
2:51
think we are needed. But I also see that
2:55
we're getting burned out. And I think it's because of how we are doing
2:59
the work that we're doing. And people always would say,
3:02
oh, you should open up a group practice or this. And I'm like, I
3:06
can't do that. So I decided I was going to go
3:09
into an agency to work with
3:13
an agency and become a supervisor. So I
3:17
got a job as a supervisor at a nonprofit
3:20
called Till. They have an outpatient clinic called Stratus
3:26
OK. OK. Well,
3:30
so, so I know in the post, the post, and
3:34
it wasn't like a, a post that talked about a
3:37
beautiful experience. It doesn't talk about like, I
3:41
don't know, like, just yeah, an amazing experience. It seems to
3:48
Yeah, yeah. So I got the job. And
3:51
the lady who hired me, she actually ended
3:55
up quitting two months into it. It was about May
3:58
I got hired. And then we had this plan. We was going
4:01
to work with the interns and the clinicians. But she
4:05
left. And so when she
4:09
left, so she was the director of the outpatient program. And
4:13
then there are supervisors. I'm one of the supervisors. She left. Now,
4:17
I'm in charge of the interns that come in. We had two amazing interns that
4:20
were coming in, and then I was supervising other clinicians. And
4:24
so I was left with no guidelines or anything,
4:28
right? Uh, so I
4:31
just do what I do. I created, um, a system where
4:35
when the interns came in, um, to teach them, they
4:39
were both, um, new to the field. Um,
4:42
and so it was amazing just like seeing them come
4:46
and their, uh, passion, you know, I think
4:49
a lot of clinicians come into the field that way, but if we're not
4:53
balancing our life with, uh, what we're doing,
4:57
it's easy to get so engulfed in the work. So. We had
5:00
this really good dynamic, but
5:03
I was the only Black clinician there. And
5:08
I knew my stuff, right? Once I
5:11
started understanding the systems, like I knew my stuff, so
5:15
certain things that were happening in the agency, you know, I would say,
5:18
oh, it shouldn't be that way, or I would ask
5:21
for things. And then I started knowing
5:25
my counterparts, not the clinicians or the interns, the other supervisors
5:30
and the CEO started struggling with me, you
5:34
know, and so, That was hard, right? That
5:38
was hard to experience because I'm
5:41
literally there to do my job. Like I didn't want anyone's job.
5:45
I have my own practice. I literally took this job part time so
5:49
that I can just fulfill this
5:55
So prior to taking on this job, how long have you been
6:02
Yes. So I'm 41. So since I was 19. Damn. I'm
6:07
sorry. I
6:12
think I'm going to have to say the number out loud. You
6:15
know, growing up, I used to be like, dang, 40's old. Now I'm like, yo, I
6:23
Since I was 19, you
6:27
know, I fell into the field by accident, working at a
6:30
homeless shelter because I needed the money, but fell in love with the population and
6:36
decided to continue my passion in this
6:39
field, which I'm so happy, you know, I still love
6:42
it. But yeah, I've been working over 20 years I've been in
6:47
So you would say you're an experienced person, if
6:54
Yep. Very experienced. I've worked in hospitals,
6:58
clinics, group homes. So I'm really familiar with the systems.
7:02
And that's another thing I came to the clinic with, right? I came
7:05
with a well, vast knowledge of the systems in
7:08
Massachusetts, the difference. So people would come to
7:12
me, the clinicians would come to me. When
7:15
we were talking about cases, I would help them problem solve. I
7:19
would have information for them. that typically in
7:22
the clinic was never really readily available. And
7:27
it's interesting. So things started
7:31
to take a little turn. There's a few incidents I wanted to bring up, you
7:35
know, and I do recognize like my privilege where I was
7:38
able to speak up because like, I didn't need the job.
7:42
It was extra for me. But one
7:45
of the things I broke my toe and, The
7:49
day after, the lady who hired me, she had a going away party. And
7:53
I was on a boot. Literally, after
7:57
I got the boot, I hobbled to the party and I
8:00
sat in the back because there was a lot of movement
8:04
and I didn't want nobody to step over my feet. Sure, sure. The
8:07
CEO, that was my first time meeting her. She
8:11
came to the back and she said, Oh,
8:14
do you want to sit up here with me? I said, oh, I'll be up front with the rest of them. I
8:18
was probably at one table behind with my legs stretched out. And I
8:21
said, oh, no, it's OK. I didn't say like, oh, my toe. I
8:24
just said, oh, no, it's OK. I'm OK here. That was one incident. Another
8:28
thing came up. One of the clients wanted
8:32
to have a Black therapist. And
8:38
they didn't have one ready. And so I
8:41
told her, you know, once my caseload went down, I
8:44
would be able to take her. And they didn't
8:48
like that I was advocating for her. It was another Black clinician.
8:53
And they threatened to take her meds
8:57
away. But in the past, prior to her, there's been
9:00
other clients who wanted to move from
9:04
one clinician to another. And it was no problem. They
9:08
were put on the wait list because they didn't want to see a certain person and
9:12
still get their medication. So I witnessed this. And
9:15
so when she stated that, there
9:19
was this big commotion about it. Another
9:23
incident that came up. So that was my
9:26
incident with the CEO. There was another big conference that
9:30
we went to. And it was a mental
9:33
health conference. And they had for lunch, you could have lunch
9:37
there. And the organization had a table. But they also had other
9:40
tables if your organization didn't buy a table. So
9:45
an old coworker was there at
9:48
the conference with me. And I went to
9:51
the lunch, and we sat at the table because he didn't have
9:55
a table. So we sat at a different table. So I wanted
9:59
to mention that because the CEO, this
10:02
is when I knew this. So that happened. And one
10:05
more thing I wanted to mention that happened. We were all
10:08
in the meeting, the supervisors, I'm the only
10:11
Black one, with our computers up. Like three
10:15
other people had their computer up. And we're talking about incentivizing things
10:19
for the clinicians. And she wanted to find out
10:23
if we had any ideas. And she was asking about a particular program.
10:27
So I'm looking it up. And halfway
10:31
through the meeting, she stops. And she said, oh,
10:35
Celeste, is there anything on your computer that you find interesting that you want to
10:38
share with us? And my stomach dropped, right?
10:41
I just wanted to walk out the meeting at that point. I
10:45
literally took my computer and turned it this way. I said, you asked a
10:48
question about X, Y, and Z. I wanted to show you. She
10:52
goes, oh, no, no, no. I believe you. And I
10:56
said to myself, I was like, dang, God, why am I here? I got so
11:00
frustrated. I wanted to bring up those three incidents because then
11:04
maybe a week later, she asked to have a meeting with me, the CEO. And
11:08
she brought up the fact that I didn't want to sit with people at the party.
11:12
I explained to her about my boot. And
11:16
then she brought up at the conference, they
11:20
was like, oh, Celeste is here. And she was like, I didn't understand why
11:23
you didn't want to sit at the table with us. And I said,
11:26
that wasn't personal. I said, my friend was there and
11:31
we sat at another table, you know. And
11:35
then she said, oh, it seems like you have something for everything I say. And
11:39
then I mentioned the computer thing. And she said, oh, it just seemed like
11:43
you was on your computer more than the others. If you're leading a meeting,
11:46
how do you see me out? And
11:50
then she says, well, I hope we can just let this pass. And
11:55
I said, what do you like about the company? I said, I love the interns, and
11:58
I love the clinicians. I love the work that I do. And she
12:02
said she would hope that I could be a better team player. And I
12:05
said, I hope my work would speak for itself. Can we just
12:08
let the past be the past? Let's sweep it under the rug, right? And
12:12
I said, no. I said, the damage is done. And she got
12:16
so quiet. If I needed this job, I probably wouldn't
12:19
have been as assertive. Because they do hold
12:27
And I knew from that point, I wasn't going to be able to stay there longer because
12:32
she recognized that I'm going to speak up. But the
12:35
thing is, it's kind of like you did all this damage. You tried to
12:39
make me look bad. You're mad that I didn't want to sit at the
12:42
table with you, but you don't provide that environment for
12:46
me, I'm not going to kinky and haha with you, right? You
12:49
know, at this meeting that, you know, they was asking, Oh, what
12:53
does your kids do? I don't know you guys like that. I don't want to, I don't want
12:56
to have conversations about my life with you. And
13:00
so, because you come in to do your job, um, when
13:03
they've made the environment kind of hostile with
13:07
the way that you're treated, they're mad at you because you don't want
13:12
Absolutely. I mean, and then there's a few things you said, you mentioned
13:16
a few things about like, whether you're the only Black person or
13:19
somebody wanting a Black therapist. When
13:23
you were talking about just your experiences, microaggressions came
13:27
to mind, you know, and it seemed as if it was very subtle. But some
13:30
of these instances seem as if there's some type of microaggressions involved.
13:37
Yeah, definitely. And I, and I sometimes I'm like,
13:41
I don't think people realize they're doing it because they've been able to
13:44
do it for so long. And it
13:47
made me feel like this definitely happened years ago, but
13:51
I didn't know, I didn't know the word microaggression. I didn't know I
13:54
just came in to do a job, but what made me go into private practice and
13:58
work for myself, because there was this uncomfortability. The higher
14:02
I got, when I was a support staff and a case manager, I was fine. Once
14:05
I got to these supervisory roles and started asking questions and
14:10
advocating for people, because I can't just be quiet when
14:14
something's not right and pretend like everything's okay. That's
14:17
when I was met with opposition, when I was in positions of
14:20
power. When I was not in positions of power, it didn't
14:24
feel the same way, but I never had a name or language
14:28
to go with it. I
14:31
think this experience in 2023 was
14:35
so powerful because it
14:38
brought up a lot from the past that I never even realized was happening because
14:44
Sure, sure, sure. I did want to circle back around to
14:48
the individual who
14:51
wanted a Black therapist, and it seemed like there was a big commotion. Why
14:58
Yeah, I think it's not by
15:02
accident I'm the only Black person. You could be intentional on
15:05
your hiring process. When
15:09
I asked about the last time there was a Black therapist, people didn't know. So
15:13
you're not intentional on your hiring process. There's
15:17
people that say they don't see race. Most of their clientele they
15:20
serve is Black. Um, and yeah,
15:24
and so it's mixed, but you know, it's, it's a
15:27
pretty mixed, um, crowd. And, um, I
15:31
think that it's kind of like, why, who is she to bring race in it? And
15:34
also I'm a public figure, like, you know, you can see
15:38
that I can't, you know, my passion is with the black community. It's
15:41
not that I don't care about other communities, but you know, I realized
15:45
how lack of, of, uh, resources there are.
15:49
for our community. And so that's my passion. So I
15:52
think it's the same way when people be like, oh, black lives matter. And
15:56
then they would be like, oh, what about blue lives? But it's like
16:00
blue lives matter too, right? Nobody said they don't matter. When
16:03
breast cancer awareness comes up, I don't see nobody asking about what about
16:06
colon cancer or what about kidney? Like nobody does
16:10
that. It's kind of like something about that makes
16:14
people uncomfortable. And instead of people challenging their
16:18
discomfort, you know, they get on the defense and then it's like
16:21
all this hoorah happening. Um, so I think it was mainly the
16:25
issue was mainly, it was just uncomfortable for me to bring race into
16:28
it when they probably don't see race, even though literally there's no
16:32
Wow. So I can imagine that.
16:36
Um, it's, it's funny, like I think you, when you first said it, you said he was
16:39
the only black clinician there. Um, I don't think some people
16:43
understand the, the weight that that bears. Um,
16:47
especially if you're in a culture that, in my opinion, so my background is
16:50
in theology, but the school I went to had a major
16:56
for social workers. And when
16:59
I was trying to get a better feel of the curriculum, it was
17:03
pretty much formed by white authors.
17:06
Most of the professors was white. And so when I think about counseling
17:11
in general, at least in the States or here in America, I
17:15
just wonder what does that ballpark look like? Who are the authors that
17:18
these individuals are reading? Who's doing the teaching? I'm
17:22
sure there's many authors from Black communities, from
17:25
Asian communities, from Latino communities, et cetera. We
17:28
can go on and on. But it seems like that feels dominated, particularly about
17:32
white culture. And not to say that's bad, but if there aren't other
17:36
voices that are being heard, I think it is
17:39
bad. And I don't know if that would be your experience, because it
17:44
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you brought up a good point, because
17:48
that's another reason why I know I went into private practice. I didn't have words
17:51
for it, but I just did things differently. I looked
17:54
at things from a holistic lens. I didn't give people a label. I
17:58
didn't look in this book called DSM. I don't even have it, because I never
18:01
used it. I just used it to pass a freaking test. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But
18:06
they give you these labels and then you feel like, oh my gosh, something's wrong
18:09
with my brain. We don't ask the question of what happened to
18:13
you. If I cut you on the arm and you start bleeding, you're
18:17
bleeding because you got cut on the arm by me. growing
18:21
up with trauma, growing up in systems that were never designed for
18:24
you, and you're walking around trying to figure out why things
18:27
are feeling the way they're feeling, it's not because your brain is
18:31
defected, it's because of all of the things. And so I come
18:34
into this field, and this is not something that, and
18:38
a lot of our authors in the psychology world are white, right? a
18:42
lot of the ways that they teach us as if you're the problem, right?
18:46
Something's wrong with you. We don't look at systems, and
18:49
I look at systems. When people come to me, they can have
18:54
a million and one things coming over. By the
18:57
time they get to that place of healing, They understand why
19:01
the behaviors are happening or why they're doing what they're doing. It's
19:04
not because they're defective, it's because something's happened. And I give people
19:08
hope because as long as you're still breathing, there's room for change. And
19:13
so that's a big issue I have in
19:17
the way that the mental health system works in this country. In
19:22
2018, I started this podcast because I
19:25
wanted to teach people about other ways of healing. Because
19:29
if you don't have a psychiatrist or a therapist, people really
19:32
start to feel hopeless about their life. And my goal
19:39
Yeah. Wow. That's a lot. So
19:43
you have this experience with your CEO. You're
19:46
in her office. Y'all are talking. So
19:50
what happens next? You brought us to a climax in
19:55
Yeah, so I'm trying to thug it out. So I got hired
19:58
in May. This incident happened October, November.
20:02
They replaced my supervisor
20:06
with another young lady. And
20:11
she doesn't come with all this experience. So already, I know she felt threatened
20:14
by me. My first supervision with her, I let her know, hey, I
20:17
don't want your job. I have my own practice. I'm literally doing this
20:21
because I love to teach. And our
20:24
first supervision, she didn't really have much to say. She was nervous. She
20:28
was asking me about podcasting. It was very not
20:32
professional at all, right? And I said, you can go
20:35
online because she said she had a friend and blah, blah, blah. Like,
20:38
OK, clearly, you looked me up, right? And I
20:42
wasn't cold, but I wasn't like, oh yeah, dah, dah, dah, dah, dah.
20:45
I came here to do a job, not to be your friend. I know that
20:49
turned her off. When we would be in meetings and
20:53
she would suggest things like she was trying to get, what they did, she
20:56
wanted to get rid of the peer supervision where the clinicians
21:00
just get together once a month. And I
21:03
said, I don't think that's a good idea. I was telling her why. So
21:08
these things I know turned her off. So
21:13
it got to the point where she came into
21:16
my office, because she's literally next to my office, keeps
21:20
her door closed, but emails me. I have an open door policy. My
21:23
door is open. And she's emailing me about
21:27
something with the interns. I said, it's probably easier if we just
21:30
talk in person. She comes into my office
21:34
and she says, I feel like there's always something with you. And
21:37
I was like, well, what does that mean? She said, I feel like you always have a problem. I said, I
21:41
don't have a problem. I said, you don't, you don't like what I have to say. Like
21:45
I said, when you ask questions, I'm not somebody that just agrees to
21:48
agree. If it doesn't make sense, I'm going to say it respectfully. And
21:53
so as soon as she left my office, mind you the day before I had put in
21:56
for a vacation in January, I was going away for my husband's birthday. I
22:00
put in for vacation. Literally, she walked out my office, and I sent my
22:03
resignation. I said, I can't live my
22:06
life. My spirit was very much disrupted, right? I
22:09
said, hey, I don't even get paid enough to be dealing with this. There's
22:12
always something to do. So this
22:16
was in November, right? No, this was
22:20
in December. So the beginning of December, I
22:23
gave a two-month notice. So I would finish out December
22:27
and January, give them two months to find another
22:36
Yeah. Give people the holidays. Because I
22:39
knew the holidays was here. And that way, maybe
22:43
January, they can get somebody to start then. I was being mindful. I
22:47
would have never talked about this if this next thing didn't happen. I would have just been
22:50
like, you know what? It wasn't a good fit. Nobody would have heard about this. So
22:54
this was the end of November-ish when I gave my notice. And
22:58
they said, OK. December 26, the day
23:01
after Christmas, mind you, I have five clients. I have clinicians.
23:05
I have interns. And I was
23:08
going to talk to them around that time about me leaving and
23:12
stuff, give them a slow transition. And December
23:16
26, I come in, and she's like, oh, let's have a meeting at 11. So I
23:19
was like, all right, cool. I wrote down the things I wanted to say about the
23:23
transition. I walk into her office, and the human resource
23:26
lady's there. And she's there. And
23:29
I'm like, OK. Because I already gave my notice, so I was like, they
23:33
can't be firing me. You know what I'm saying? I didn't know they was firing me.
23:38
Big check, because they had to check for
23:42
the rest of December and then all of January until my
23:46
end date. I've never been written up
23:49
nothing, right? And I sit down
23:53
and then I said, wait, hold on for a second. I said, I was like, I felt
23:56
a little emotional because I'm thinking about me. I'm always thinking about other people.
23:59
I'm thinking about the clients and the people I haven't told. And
24:03
you just want me to leave. This was a Tuesday. My shift, I did
24:06
like a part-time Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. So this is a Tuesday, like
24:10
halfway in the day. And I had people scheduled later that day
24:13
and the next day. I
24:17
was like, I get you don't like me. I
24:20
was like, I get it. I said, I don't like being here either. But I
24:24
said, this isn't fair to the clients. I started advocating. I
24:29
said, there's people that are having a hard time.
24:32
And I said, it wouldn't be fair to them. And
24:37
my supervisor, she was saying, well, I
24:41
wanted to know about this. The stuff she was talking about, I had a
24:44
sticky note. I had a sticky note with the
24:48
stuff. And I showed the human resource lady, this is
24:51
what we were preparing to talk about. Because the last session, you wanted to ask me about my
24:54
podcast. Now you're trying to say, now you're
24:57
trying to be professional. And then this human resource lady,
25:01
she was all like, you could tell she was like, damn, it's crazy.
25:05
I was like, all right, how about this? I said, clearly, you
25:08
don't want me to stay to the end of my thing. I see you got the check
25:12
there, you know what I'm saying? Clearly, I said, if I didn't really care about
25:15
these people, I said, I'll just take that check and be out, because I'm the one
25:18
coming up on top. They're going to pay me out for January without
25:21
having to be here? I was like, that's the whole win. So
25:26
then I said, well, how about this? Is it OK if I just
25:29
finish out my day, come in the next day, just
25:33
so I can try to reach out to clients and wrap things up? And the
25:38
human resource lady looked at her. She said, I'm OK with it if you're OK. Have
25:43
you ever heard of somebody getting fired and then being able to stay to finish
25:46
their shift the next day? Who advocates for that, right? Right,
25:49
right. So, um, so they said, okay. So
25:54
I, so I went to my office, started wrapping up stuff. Um,
25:58
and then, you know, I was meeting with people. I was like, Hey, so I got
26:02
fired. Like the clinicians
26:06
was coming in, like, wait, what? I was like,
26:10
yeah, like people couldn't believe it. Um, and
26:13
it shows you that clearly whatever they want to find me for,
26:17
was it really that bad that they allowed me to stay to finish up my
26:22
I mean, I didn't even have you say they didn't have any write ups or anything like that. That sounded
26:28
Yeah. And so, you know, I knew it was personal and.
26:34
I just thought about, because it's like, oh, I left before they fired
26:37
me. You know what I'm trying to say? I don't know who this Black girl thinks she is.
26:41
She is not about to be going out on her own. We're cognizant. We're
26:44
going to push her out. But it's like, you're trying
26:48
to stick it to me, but you're sticking it to clients. You're sticking it to
26:51
staff. We're not talking about
26:54
numbers. We're not talking about property. We're talking about people.
27:03
They generated diversity cards for that department. You
27:07
know what I'm saying? So December 26, I
27:11
said to myself, I have to tell people
27:15
about this, right? But at the time, I was too
27:18
emotional. The emotions wasn't about me, Jacob. I just told you, they
27:21
paid me out for January. I didn't lose. I didn't
27:25
lose. I thought about all the Black women that go through
27:28
this, because I'm talking to them about this stuff. Sure. Yeah.
27:32
And I thought about, yo, Celeste, you have a full practice.
27:36
You don't have to be there. And
27:40
I think about the people that don't have that backup, right? And
27:43
they're being gaslit. Or one minute, your supervisor wants
27:47
to kiki with you about your personal stuff. And the next minute,
27:50
they're mad because you don't want to kiki back. I didn't get
27:54
hired to kiki. I got hired to do a job. Your CEO's telling
27:58
you like, oh, I hope you could be a team player. Look
28:01
at the numbers, look at what I'm bringing into the table. I'm not a team
28:04
player. Oh, because I don't want to sit at the table. Literally, I didn't want to sit at
28:08
the table with you and you take it personal because I'm not
28:11
joking and jiving. I thought about that and
28:14
I said, I want to create a
28:18
blog post, I want to share my story. Then
28:21
you came up with this idea to bring it here. And
28:25
I thought that was great, right? And I didn't
28:28
want to share it with emotion. I want to stick to the facts of
28:32
the story before I even start to bring it out. And that's
28:36
why, you know, beautiful mindsets have
28:41
Okay, okay. Well, sis, I definitely know you're 41 because you said
28:44
jucking and jiving. So I was like, yeah, she's
28:51
Okay. Celeste, earlier you
28:54
said you didn't feel right in your spirit. Did you have to apologize for anything after
28:57
you felt you didn't feel right in your... No,
29:04
Yeah, I know you're a J. Cole fan. It wasn't that right. It
29:09
Not that I did anything wrong. This is wrong.
29:13
Okay. Um, so, I mean,
29:16
I do have a couple more questions, but one,
29:19
I know you said a little bit, um, once you left the
29:23
job, you had a lot of emotions and feelings. How
29:27
did you get through that? How did you process that? Because, you know, there are people who
29:30
are possibly didn't have the opportunity to say, let me say a few more days. And
29:34
I know you was doing it for, you know, the people that you was working with, whether
29:37
it was internal clients or external clients, what have you. Um,
29:41
and I think that was really cool because especially with therapy, you can't just cut people
29:44
off it, you know, they're going through the worst, you know, now they have
29:47
to, um, uh, trust, put their trust in somebody
29:51
new. So, so I appreciate that you did that, but like the
29:58
Yeah, that's a good question. Um, and thank you, you know, I.
30:04
The check was ready for me. I already got paid for the day I'm trying to stay for, right?
30:08
So it clearly, I had a passion for people. A
30:13
few months, maybe a month before I gave
30:16
my notice, I realized I was walking
30:20
into work and before I was able to like, okay, it's them, but then
30:23
the energy was just feel like it was sucking me dry, right? Sure.
30:27
So I had the plan. So first it was like, okay, I'm going to try to stay till
30:30
May to the intern's finish. But then I said, no, I can't because my spirit and
30:35
for people listening that may not be in a position that I am to
30:38
just quit. What can help you is
30:41
creating a plan. So initially, my plan
30:45
was May, but then I realized I couldn't stay
30:48
that long. But sometimes that's not people's position. And
30:52
so the way I dealt with it by reminding myself I'm not stuck here,
30:55
I literally wasn't stuck here. For people that
30:58
are listening, remind yourself you're not stuck there. And
31:02
I have really good systems where After
31:06
work, I can leave work at work. But then I found myself being annoyed,
31:10
especially after she tried to call me out. And I remember that
31:13
day, I went into my car, and I
31:17
was like, yo, God, why am I here? Because I couldn't just walk
31:20
out because I care about people. I would never just do that. But
31:24
I said, why am I here? And I felt in my spirit, it says, because I
31:27
need you to create your own. I didn't know
31:30
what that meant. But now I do. But
31:34
I just felt like I needed to create my own. That
31:38
experience, as uncomfortable as
31:41
it was, gave me clarity around next steps
31:44
of my life. And sometimes Like that's the case when
31:47
you're in a situation that you're struggling with, really make time to
31:52
like, think about what is the lesson that you're, you're trying to
31:55
be taught or being taught during that time. What can you
31:58
pull out of it? Uh, and that's what, that's the way I kind
32:02
of dealt with my emotions is I, I acknowledged them. I
32:05
named them. I challenged them. I didn't allow the
32:09
system or in that space to define me. Like I'm,
32:12
I'm very grounded person. I know who I am. I know what I provide. And
32:17
that was my saving grace. If I didn't know who I was, if I didn't know what
32:20
I came to the table with, it's easy to get sucked in by these systems.
32:24
Sure, sure, sure. OK, so
32:28
I think that's great. I do think that's good. That's
32:32
a good outlook for people, especially when they're going through hardships
32:35
of any time, but specifically as it goes as it relates to being
32:40
let go from a job, you know, because you could that can be so I can feel like a divorce
32:44
or, you know, some type like a death, you know, like,
32:47
I think that can be something hard to deal with. And it might even
32:51
for some people take away their dignity, you know.
32:55
So I do that. Thank you for sharing that. So
33:02
what's next? How would you Like,
33:11
Yeah, good question. You know, I
33:14
got demoted. People that's been with this podcast for a while. I got demoted.
33:18
I had my master's in counseling. I didn't go
33:21
for my license. You know, I was the first person to
33:24
in my family to kind of get this degree. And I just felt
33:28
like, oh, great, but I'm doing amazing. Because I didn't
33:31
have a different bar. I was the bar. But
33:35
I was very much underpaid and overworked. And that
33:38
was when I got into the supervisory role. And then I'm asking
33:42
questions. One week, it's like, oh my gosh, people are moving out.
33:46
I'm creating this bond. But then the next week, I'm getting demoted. And
33:50
I was only making $43,000 with my master's. They took $5,000 away.
33:54
So that went from $43,000 to $37,000 with
33:59
my master's. And then I went from being a supervisor to
34:02
a case manager. And what was the
34:05
lesson? And I said, oh, you're disposable. And
34:08
it propelled me to go for my license. I wouldn't be Celeste the
34:12
therapist. I wouldn't have this platform if
34:15
I didn't get that demotion. So that was the lesson. This
34:18
lesson here, you know, uh, that
34:27
I just had my daughter when I, when I, I was
34:30
at the shelter that I, and I moved my way up. And in 2012, after I had my daughter, I started
34:34
as a supervisor. And, um, so, I
34:46
enjoy having my practice. And
34:50
then I was like, oh, I can't be a leader. Not that
34:53
I can't. I'm already a leader in some ways, right? But I
34:57
think about the logistics of an organization. So I was like, let
35:00
me just go into this organization. My director
35:03
left, so I had to create the systems, do
35:08
all these things that I said I couldn't do. And so when
35:13
I felt it in my spirit that I'm supposed to create my own, it's
35:17
forced me into looking at next steps
35:20
for creating not just a practice
35:24
but an organization. that if this didn't
35:27
happen, I promise you, I probably wouldn't have done it. God was like, Celeste, you're
35:30
getting too comfortable. Let's go over here so I can show you that you're capable. And
35:35
so that's what's next. When
35:39
I started my podcast, I listened to the first one, the first episode where
35:42
I was like, my name is Celeste. I'm a therapist from Boston. I want to
35:45
help you shift the way you think. And shifting
35:50
the way you think has kind of been the baseline for what
35:54
I do, whether I'm talking to another therapist or
35:58
a lawyer or an actor, it's telling me a story
36:02
and how they've been able to shift because we seem to get stuck.
36:06
And so a couple of years ago, I created my LLC, Shifting the
36:09
Way You Think, and I said, I want to create something. I didn't
36:13
know what that would look like. And this experience helped me
36:16
see what that would look like. I want to create a group practice. I want to create
36:20
a holistic system for people to
36:23
be able to tap into. So when you say what's next, that's
36:27
what's next. It's like, I got the LLC. I started this
36:30
stuff. And even when I started
36:34
my practice years ago, I said I wanted to create something
36:37
where people can get healed in different arenas, whether it's financial,
36:41
emotional, like socially, environmental, right?
36:45
Like there's so many different factors in our lives. that
36:49
I wanted people to be able to look at the full picture. Because you got to shift
36:52
the way you think in all arenas, whether it's finances, whether it's your social life,
36:56
right? Especially if you're stuck. My goal is for people to get unstuck. And
37:00
this experience, like, if the demotion created
37:04
Celeste the therapist, and now this just happened, you
37:07
can only imagine the levels that I'm trying to go. Like, it's
37:12
OK. OK. Well, I'm happy to hear that. I
37:16
am excited to see what the next chapter is
37:19
of your life. And I know you're old, so you might not
37:22
have too much time. So I hope that you
37:26
can speed that process up to
37:39
But I'm not in front, though. I'm not in front. I'm behind. No,
37:44
but no, this has been great. This has been great. I don't know if
37:47
there's any last words you want to say to my audience. I'm
37:51
feeling, in my spirit, a new thing. It's like I need to take over Celeste's therapist.
37:55
No, but if there's any last words or anything
37:59
you want to leave the audience with, your audience with, I think
38:02
this is, first of all, thank you for being vulnerable and sharing your
38:05
experience. being transparent
38:10
about some of the things you've been thinking about processing, and
38:15
just being bold and respecting yourself, you know, even
38:18
in a place where I would say the culture can really be very
38:22
toxic, you know. Like,
38:25
there's so much you could have talked about just with that work culture and
38:29
being the only Black person. But anyways, thank you for sharing that. It's
38:33
nice if the audience has some things to process and think about,
38:41
I would just leave people with the mindset of being
38:44
encouraged, right? Whether, you know, I just happen to
38:47
be talking about a work situation, whether it's a financial situation, whether
38:51
it's a homeless situation. reminding yourself
38:55
that like, as long as you're still breathing, there's room for change. And
38:59
the worst thing you can do is give up, right? The
39:02
best thing you can do is work on creating a plan, not just creating a plan,
39:06
but action steps. And even if that plan feels like it's so
39:09
far-fetched, right? I think about me starting my degree
39:13
and not really like I was maneuvering the college
39:17
role on my own. And by the time I was getting my associates,
39:21
my two-year degree, and I was like, oh, I want to be a therapist. That was
39:24
going to take some time, especially with me going part-time, having to work. But
39:28
I didn't get caught up in like, oh my gosh, I have this much
39:31
to go. I said to myself, oh, good job. You finished this class. Oh,
39:35
you got this class done, right? I started to celebrate the moments. So
39:39
I think when it comes to our ability to create a
39:42
plan, we have that, but we get caught up in how far we have to go instead
39:46
of looking at the steps we're taking to get to that point. You can
39:50
be encouraged by celebrating the moments, right? Like
39:54
there's a way to have peace in the middle of chaos, but you
39:57
got to really work on conditioning your mind, right?
40:02
Maybe you have to go into that job because rent needs to get paid, What
40:05
are you listening to on your way into work? What are you listening to on your way out
40:08
of work? Like, where are you spending your time? Because you
40:11
want to develop a mindset that reminds you of who you are, especially when
40:15
you have a lot of forces trying to tell you who you're not. So
40:18
I would just challenge people to be encouraged. And remember,
40:22
you have more power than you realize. You just have to have faith to
40:25
believe in yourself. Because when you have faith to believe in yourself, no
40:29
one can take your, you can't take my faith away from me, right?
40:33
My mindset can help challenge it, take it, but you
40:37
can't take it away from me. I can give it out by not conditioning
40:45
Great. So this has been a great... Thank you
40:50
You're welcome. It was amazing. You did a really good job. I wasn't sure.
40:53
I was like, oh, I don't know. But
40:57
yeah, nah, this was dope. I appreciate you even coming up
41:00
with this idea. Yeah, for sure. It's something that
41:04
has been heavy on my spirit. It's funny, the
41:08
day I wrote the blog post, I woke up
41:12
because I said, I'm going to put a pin in this because I
41:15
don't want it to be filled with emotion and people lose the point. I'm like, I don't know
41:18
who they think they are. You know, like, yeah, yeah,
41:21
yeah. And then the day I put it,
41:25
I woke up and something in my spirit said, don't forget about that post you're
41:28
supposed to be writing, Celeste. And so then I wrote it
41:31
out, you know, and then you came up with this
41:35
idea. So now like whether people see the blog posts
41:38
or hear this podcast, I'm excited for
41:41
people I think storytelling is powerful. It
41:44
gives you hope, right? So I'm excited for my audience
41:48
to get hope about their situation, whether it's work or anywhere else.
41:52
Like, I just want you to have hope and know that you have power. So thank you.
41:55
You're welcome. Hopefully, you're honest. They know how to juck and jive, too. Can
41:59
you define that for the audience right quick? Cool.