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Judge orders unexpected repayment, not jail, for serial downtown window breaker · Kvetch & Release

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Speaker 1: Earlier today, we were talking about how a Windsor judge
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Speaker 1: ordered restitution for that gentleman who went throughout the downtown core.
0:07
Speaker 1: He had a little bit of a vendetta with some
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Speaker 1: business owners at the end of twenty twenty two, going
0:13
Speaker 1: into twenty twenty three, decided to take upon himself to
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Speaker 1: start throwing some metal bolts through people's front windows, smashing them.
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Speaker 1: Shattering them wasn't great whatsoever, caused thousands upon thousands upon
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Speaker 1: thousands of dollars in damage. It was reported that the
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Speaker 1: guy has addiction issue, substance issues, that he is on disability,
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Speaker 1: that he probably won't be able to pay back the
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Speaker 1: restitution that's been ordered of thirteen thousand dollars for the
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Speaker 1: window and door repair claims, but that he has agreed
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Speaker 1: to go to rehab. Some people are left asking the question, though,
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Speaker 1: of what happens to the businesses who had their windows broken.
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Speaker 1: They still had to reach into their pockets, pull out
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Speaker 1: their wallet and go pay for it. They can't just
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Speaker 1: go to the write it off money tree and pick
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Speaker 1: off some bills, right Tom Lusier, owner of Fog Lounge.
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Speaker 2: Downtown, that's correct.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, people like to think that writing things off is
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Speaker 1: just makes it all perfect and easy, But such is
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Speaker 1: not the case. You had to deal with this yourself, right, Tom.
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Speaker 2: Well, it's funny because in November, during with the film festival,
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Speaker 2: somebody else in broad Daylight, I'd say ten am shattered
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Speaker 2: like our biggest window, and there's a big uproar, and
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Speaker 2: people wanted to spend money, their money to fix it,
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Speaker 2: and I said, we can't do this. This is totally
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Speaker 2: pointless to do when the core problem isn't being addressed
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Speaker 2: and this kind of activity happening downtown is going to
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Speaker 2: happen again. And when that window breaks again, are you
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Speaker 2: how angry are you going to be that you've given
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Speaker 2: me your hard earned money to fix this thing when
1:59
Speaker 2: the real problems been you know, basically brushed under the
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Speaker 2: rug for such a long time and really not addressed
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Speaker 2: properly on a grand scale with like you know, provincial
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Speaker 2: dollars and actually trying to help help people that are
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Speaker 2: out there struggling. And the gentleman that was just was
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Speaker 2: just punished in court. I would say. Five weeks later,
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Speaker 2: he shot a both that hit my same front window
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Speaker 2: that I did not pay to repair intentionally because I
2:34
Speaker 2: guess I had a sixth sense that this was literally
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Speaker 2: going to happen again, and it did. I didn't put
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Speaker 2: an acclaim at all, and I found out about the
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Speaker 2: perpetrator having done this till like fifteen or sixteen other
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Speaker 2: businesses after the fact. But I guarantee that that's what happened.
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Speaker 2: It was like a puncture, almost looked like a bullet
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Speaker 2: hole right in that front window, which wasn't there in November,
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Speaker 2: but it was there in late December. So yeah, it's
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Speaker 2: disheartening because as a small business owner, that window is
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Speaker 2: still sitting there the way it was. It has not
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Speaker 2: been replaced and it was. It's probably going to cost
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Speaker 2: somewhere in the range of like two thousand dollars just
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Speaker 2: from my one window.
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Speaker 1: It's a lot of money. I remember when that happened,
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Speaker 1: when it was during with you said, Tom, outside of fog,
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Speaker 1: there was a security guard sitting overnight right.
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Speaker 2: On the other block. I believe, yes.
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Speaker 1: So it's not a matter of even I guess the
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Speaker 1: policing in this sense. It's as you said, it's these
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Speaker 1: underlying issues, the need for federal dollars for provincial dollars
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Speaker 1: to flow down to help with the underlying issues, the
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Speaker 1: mental health supports, the addiction supports, the drug supports.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's the process of you know, trying
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Speaker 2: to just keep your doors open. Any small business owner,
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Speaker 2: I'm sure there are thousands that are listening right now.
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Speaker 2: You have these intangibles beyond staffing and whatever that are
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Speaker 2: so difficult just to stay open. And I've done it
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Speaker 2: in an hour. Downtown the declining still declining, mind you, Downtown,
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Speaker 2: despite restore the core or whatever the heck it is.
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Speaker 2: It's so difficult after twenty one years that a thing
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Speaker 2: like this happens, and it's it's impossible to recover from
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Speaker 2: a thing like that without special help. Because if you
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Speaker 2: want to get some dollars from like the programs like
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Speaker 2: the BIA, who will help kind of repair your window.
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Speaker 2: I think it's like it's it's a it's a it's
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Speaker 2: a pittance that you are offered in comparison to the
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Speaker 2: cost of a window. And then you need to get
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Speaker 2: a police report to prove that it was a crime,
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Speaker 2: which you have to pay for, by the way, So
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Speaker 2: you got to you have to make time to go
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Speaker 2: get the police report, pay for it, and then that's
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Speaker 2: you still eat that cost and you know, to get
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Speaker 2: four hundred dollars or three hundred dollars or something toward
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Speaker 2: a fifteen hundred dollars window. It's such a pain. Again,
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Speaker 2: if the city, or you know, if the costs of
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Speaker 2: these things were put elsewhere, I'm sure money would be
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Speaker 2: spent a little bit differently to defer that, to avoid
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Speaker 2: these kinds of instances happening. Because again, the downtown at
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Speaker 2: certain times of the day and night are so dismally empty.
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Speaker 2: It's the wild left. There's there's no problem getting away
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Speaker 2: with the crime down there. It does not matter about
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Speaker 2: the extra money for the police Ingram. Sorry, you can't
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Speaker 2: be everywhere at once. There's no Batman action in downtown Windsor.
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Speaker 2: And the main issue is you've got a lot of
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Speaker 2: hurting people and the organizations that are put in place
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Speaker 2: to take care of them can only do so much
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Speaker 2: because there is enough money. And the downtown is completely
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Speaker 2: empty because we've got landlords that don't want tenants, and
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Speaker 2: so it's you know, it's a ghost sound.
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Speaker 1: It is a bit of a cycle there. How do
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Speaker 1: you feel about the fact that the justice ordered thirteen
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Speaker 1: thousand dollars in restitution, but everybody agrees that the guy's
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Speaker 1: not going to be able to pay it.
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Speaker 2: Man, these punishments that we hear about that everyone you know,
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Speaker 2: listens to on the radio and paper, you are not.
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Speaker 2: It is so clear from people who are like on
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Speaker 2: the ground every day, kind of in the nitty gritty.
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Speaker 2: I'm not saying I'm mister Joe Street smart, but I am.
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Speaker 2: I'm on the ground level or below every day. And
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Speaker 2: when I hear a thing like that, it's so out
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Speaker 2: of touch with what is needed. I don't think anyone
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Speaker 2: listening is like, well that sounds fair. What nice gentleman
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Speaker 2: now is you know, rehabilitated he'll pay that. No, no way.
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Speaker 2: Small business owner hears that and is like, oh god,
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Speaker 2: I'm never seeing a dollar of that restitution. And it
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Speaker 2: would be much better if it was like like a
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Speaker 2: Seinfeldian solution where you have to be my butler. It's
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Speaker 2: like you should have to clean my bathrooms every day
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Speaker 2: for a month and then like at three in the
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Speaker 2: morning after a busy night, and then you have to
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Speaker 2: go do it for another month for the next the
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Speaker 2: next business, and then another month for the next business.
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Speaker 2: Like that work that money off somehow. Because the solution
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Speaker 2: of oh yeah, let's let's just get this guy to
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Speaker 2: pay with no other with no other punishment is ridiculous.
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Speaker 2: I mean, it's better than just letting him completely off
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Speaker 2: the hook. But it isn't going to happen. If anyone
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Speaker 2: knows the history of this particular character, this is a
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Speaker 2: person who makes bad decisions, whether they are addicted to
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Speaker 2: drugs or have a mental illness. This is someone who's
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Speaker 2: been doing this for like twenty five years. FYI. I
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Speaker 2: mean that the person's name was published I don't know
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Speaker 2: how many months ago or years ago, and if you
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Speaker 2: did a quick Google search, it was like, oh wow,
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Speaker 2: this is this is someone that has been doing this
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Speaker 2: since their twenties, not just in turn fifty five and
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Speaker 2: found a slingshot and thought this will be fun. So
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Speaker 2: this is a this is a person that the recidivism
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Speaker 2: is almost certain, and they're not going to pay it
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Speaker 2: any had on money. It's just not going to happen.
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Speaker 1: Well, you'll be heartened to know that. Mike Kaycook on
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Speaker 1: Mornings with Mike and Meg suggested the Butler answer as well,
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Speaker 1: you're kidding. No, he absolutely did. He was one hundred
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Speaker 1: percent in on it, and he said that that was
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Speaker 1: something he thought would work We've had people that have
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Speaker 1: texted in saying, hey, the guy should go and have
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Speaker 1: to clean the dishes until he pays it off, or
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Speaker 1: shovel the snow or wash the windows. So it seems
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Speaker 1: like you'd be down with some kind of a community
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Speaker 1: service punishment where the community service was repaid to the
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Speaker 1: business owners that were affected.
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Speaker 2: Look, dude, I mean the it's really hard to say
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Speaker 2: what's what's useful. You want the person who went and
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Speaker 2: got the help, right, got rehab and whatever, because that
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Speaker 2: is like the bare minimum. It still leaves these these
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Speaker 2: pits in the bank accounts of the businesses if they
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Speaker 2: did end up dealing with it. Although I see a
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Speaker 2: few of the people who had the windows broken did not.
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Speaker 2: They decided to, you know, tape it up and push
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Speaker 2: forward the way I did because of the fear of
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Speaker 2: the same thing happening. Right, So that that cycle just
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Speaker 2: sucks so much when you are so disheartened and dejected
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Speaker 2: because you know something like this is probably just going
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Speaker 2: to happen again. I don't know, it's it's just a
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Speaker 2: real maddening thing. I mean, it's not the first time
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Speaker 2: that this has happened to me. I would say there
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Speaker 2: was a there when there was a bar open on
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Speaker 2: the corner of Polisher and University. Somebody got in a
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Speaker 2: fight at this nightclub and then just decided to come
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Speaker 2: and kick my door in glass door, got arrested, the
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Speaker 2: whole deal, the whole punishment. Here's the case number. Call
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Speaker 2: us so we can try and get money for you.
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Speaker 2: Of course that didn't happen like that didn't happen back then.
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Speaker 2: That was like, you know, probably nine ten years ago,
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Speaker 2: and it's not going to happen now for the people
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Speaker 2: who had this happened in them. It's again it comes
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Speaker 2: down to it being systemic. Now these problems aren't about
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Speaker 2: one guy who's going and doing this, and it's not
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Speaker 2: about handing down proper punishments to prevent people from doing this.
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Speaker 2: It's all it's going to keep happening because the root
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Speaker 2: cause isn't being addressed properly. Period.
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Speaker 1: So fog is obviously moving out of the core and
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Speaker 1: to Erie Street. And the main reason that you've talked
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Speaker 1: about is, of course, you know, increase in rent by
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Speaker 1: landlords who ended up purchasing the building. But I wonder
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Speaker 1: if you know the state of downtown and this type
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Speaker 1: of crime has anything to do with it as well.
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Speaker 1: I mean I don't. I don't think that this would
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Speaker 1: have been like the main reason for you to leave.
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Speaker 1: But I have to think like it's on your mind,
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Speaker 1: going like, oh, I hope I don't have to deal
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Speaker 1: with this anymore at least, I mean.
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Speaker 2: It's gonna be everywhere. The place we're moving to is
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Speaker 2: not very far. It's one point seven kilometers from where
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Speaker 2: we are. We're basically in the same neighborhood, we have
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Speaker 2: the same counselor. It's it's I kind of feel good
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Speaker 2: in that way that I'm not too far from our roots.
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Speaker 2: But we are all kidding ourselves, especially elected officials and
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Speaker 2: BIA heads, if we are not going to believe the truth,
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Speaker 2: which is people are afraid of windsors downtown. They do
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Speaker 2: I think they should be afraid. No, I don't. I'm
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Speaker 2: down there constantly. The people that are down there that
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Speaker 2: are troublesome or that are unsavory, are so trying to survive.
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Speaker 2: Let's say ninety nine point nine percent of them. It's
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Speaker 2: it's and it doesn't look good, and it doesn't feel
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Speaker 2: good to encounter it and encountering mental illness because you
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Speaker 2: want to go have dinner or you want to go
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Speaker 2: see a show, and it's like right in your lap.
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Speaker 2: But for us to pretend that that isn't what's driving
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Speaker 2: people into other neighborhoods to open their businesses or just
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Speaker 2: to spend their money is so it's so silly. It's
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Speaker 2: such an obvious thing. Speak to anyone about what is
12:27
Speaker 2: preventing them from coming down to and they tell you
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Speaker 2: it's like, I don't know why this is being This
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Speaker 2: is not the most pressing thing when every win's are
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Speaker 2: right that I talk to that says, oh, I haven't
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Speaker 2: been downtown in eight years. It's not because of COVID.
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Speaker 2: It's of the main issue that is in the news constantly.
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Speaker 2: And then we get people who have the powers that
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Speaker 2: be that can spend and guide dollars to the right places,
12:53
Speaker 2: who just had their talking points, and the money is
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Speaker 2: not going the right spot, you know where it's going.
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Speaker 2: We're getting a new that won't even be able to
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Speaker 2: freeze because Windsor, Ontario hasn't had three snowfalls in ten
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Speaker 2: winters combined. But we're going to have million dollars skating
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Speaker 2: rink at city Hall. Like these things really do anger
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Speaker 2: Windsor rights because they see it for what it is.
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Speaker 2: You know, these legacy projects spending millions in places where
13:23
Speaker 2: we need millions of dollars to help in all these
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Speaker 2: other places. We have gone over this so many times, John,
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Speaker 2: I mean the issues are cyclical because the landlord issue
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Speaker 2: that we haven't even touched on is I think the
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Speaker 2: number one issue downtown, and that's not still not being addressed.
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Speaker 2: There is still no punishment or checks and balances for
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Speaker 2: having an empty space, whether it's intentional or unintentional. And
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Speaker 2: it's the scourge of downtown is having empty space, and
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Speaker 2: that all comes down to landlords, which might be actually
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Speaker 2: you know, hurting. The landlords could possibly be struggling because
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Speaker 2: there's not funding in place to help them with rising costs,
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Speaker 2: et cetera. But these are these are the issues downtown.
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Speaker 2: Like it's there's several of them. It's the daisy chain
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Speaker 2: connected problem. You can't just solve one that you have
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Speaker 2: to chip away at all of them. You know.
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Speaker 1: It seems like if you could just get everyone around
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Speaker 1: a table to have some conversations with people like you,
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Speaker 1: to say like, hey, what's wrong, what do you think
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Speaker 1: can be done? The answers are there. But I guess
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Speaker 1: it comes down to that that one pesky saying show
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Speaker 1: me your budget and I'll show you your priorities.
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Speaker 2: Right. Oh, that's a good thing. I mean, I wish
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Speaker 2: I was more learned in terms of policy and how funding,
14:45
Speaker 2: you know, really works. I'm not that guy. I'm the
14:48
Speaker 2: guy on the ground who has very good observation skills,
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Speaker 2: and I know what might till looks like at the
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Speaker 2: end of every night, and I know what is happening
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Speaker 2: in the street down there, and anyone when we hear
15:00
Speaker 2: about increased police presence, I'm sure people at home think,
15:03
Speaker 2: you know, you would notice. You don't notice. You don't
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Speaker 2: see anything any difference whatsoever when you're down there every day.
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Speaker 2: There might that might be different for people on O
15:15
Speaker 2: that avenue. Maybe maybe that coverage is glued to that
15:20
Speaker 2: mean thoroughfare. But again, the issues are so broad and interconnected.
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Speaker 2: You can't just throw money at one of them. I e.
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Speaker 2: Police officers, who I love. Man. They call, they come
15:30
Speaker 2: when I call, and they solve lots of problems for me,
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Speaker 2: which happens I would say on a weekly or bi
15:36
Speaker 2: weekly basis, unfortunately. But it's it's this huge issue. It's
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Speaker 2: it's so many issues tied together, and no, I don't.
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Speaker 2: I'm not politically involved for a lot of good reasons
15:48
Speaker 2: enough to know the ins and outs of how that
15:52
Speaker 2: money is being misspent and how somebody in the room
15:55
Speaker 2: could go, Hey, isn't there like a major issue now
15:58
Speaker 2: right now with X, Y or Z, Like, I don't
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Speaker 2: know how it's not being brought up in those moments
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Speaker 2: when the dollars are on the table. I don't know.
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Speaker 1: Well, we'll keep asking those questions and trying to get
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Speaker 1: to the bottom of it. But Tom, until then, I'm
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Speaker 1: sure we'll speak again at some point.
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Speaker 2: Yet, we're down there till the end of December, and
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Speaker 2: I'm going to try and enjoy every minute of it
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Speaker 2: despite all of this.
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Speaker 1: There you go, Hey, check out fog Lounge while you can,
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Speaker 1: and it's downtown location until the end of December. Tom Lucier,
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Speaker 1: owner Fog Lounge, coner METI or thank you so much
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Speaker 1: for your time. Thanks man, cheers, all the best.