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Breaking Barriers in Women's Healthcare · The Resting Stitch Face Podcast

• Sarah Harding: Hello and welcome back for another episode of the Resting Stitch Face Podcast. I'm your co-host, Dr. Sarah Harding, along with Erin Sheffield: Dr. Aaron Sheffield. Welcome back. I feel like it has been such a long time since we've had an episode, just the two of us. Sarah Harding: I know. It is funny. I do love having guests, but it is nice just to have the two of us and kind of catch it catch up on other things. So it's true. Erin Sheffield: Miss our little chats everyone gets to listen in on. So our last episode was featuring Dr. Natalie Crawford. And if you caught that episode, she is a reproductive endocrinologist, and we hit on so many amazing topics about women's health and fertility, visibility in social media, et cetera. But I feel like there were so many things we just did not have time to talk about. And I know both of us have been through our own. Sarah Harding: Yeah. Erin Sheffield: Journeys. I'm a multi-IVF mama survivor. You donated eggs in your youth. So you kind of went through that. I think we both had kind of our episodes of infertility. And so I thought there's so much more we could talk about here. So what what do you think? What resonated? What what did that conversation kind of bring up for you? Sarah Harding: Yeah. Well, I just thought it was interesting 'cause it really v made me flash back to like a different time of my life, you know? And so I was thinking about donating eggs when I was in dental school. And, you know, the reason I did it was that I could pay for breast augmentation 'cause I'd always yeah. 'Cause I always I know. Yeah. I mean it was really cool. Like I really enjoyed it too. But that was that was why I did it. So Erin Sheffield: Is that why? I'm like, she's so altruistic, I can't believe she would go through that as someone You're such a geek. Say, at least for me, going maybe it's different going through it for like this altruistic reason. You're getting paid, you're a poor dental student. It was like a whole different thing than going through as an angsty, this is my last chance to become a mother situation. But I feel like it would not be if someone offered me to pay for my boob job to do it, I would say absolutely not. But I love that, yeah. Sarah Harding: Yes. Right. Yeah. Well, I mean it wasn't it wasn't all that it wasn't so easy either. You know what I mean? And so like I yeah. And I had to do all of the genetic counseling and like this huge family history and had to wait and see if somebody picked me, you know. And well yeah, that's how I got to well I didn't that's when they did the harvest was somebody picked me. And so then we went started to do the yeah. Erin Sheffield: No, yeah. Especially during dental school. My goodness. yeah. Did anyone pick you? Did I tell you when? So they just don't they don't just put you in like a catalog or a library and wait for someone to come by. Someone has to say, We want Sarah. Sarah Harding: Yeah, and I guess it's because it must have been really in the earlier stages. It was in two thousand and eight. Erin Sheffield: So interesting. Sarah Harding: Yeah. And so I guess it was in the early stages. I didn't really get paid that much. Now, knowing what I know now about how much it costs to do IVF and stuff, I wasn't like, Hey. Yeah. But I think I harvested like fourteen or sixteen eggs, I think. Yeah. I know. And so Erin Sheffield: Wow. Did you just do one time then? Okay. And was it just one family that used your eggs or were they able to like hold on and they probably just hold them in case they want more kids and they have more siblings of your babies? Sarah Harding: Think so. Yeah, I guess so. So there's lots of little Miis running around somewhere in Charleston, South Carolina, or somewhere close by. Erin Sheffield: my goodness. That's something I think I have thought about because I feel like the IVF journey is so full of every possible it's a mental journey. It's an emotional journey. It's definitely a physical journey. It's a spiritual journey. It's an ethical journey. And I remember thinking, if we have embryos left, what do we do with them? You know, they ask you this. And I was Abe was like, Of course we donate them. And I was like, Sarah Harding: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Right. Erin Sheffield: Of course we don't donate them. Like we had both such different thought processes on it. And he's like, Well, we know how hard this is to go through. And so of course we would want like another family to be able to have success in their family. But my thought is I feel like every time I'd walk around if I saw s anyone that looked kind of familiar, I'd be like, Is that my baby? And I already have these like wake up I wake up in the middle of the night like I forgot something or no. Sarah Harding: Right. it's kinda funny because I'm like, hmm. Yeah. it's funny. No, I never really like like I think it'd be kinda cool. But yeah, I think I signed something that said I didn't want, you know, to to be contacted or something, you know, I don't know. Erin Sheffield: I feel like I'd be having that too, like, is that my baby? So for me that'd be a big anxiety thing. Not about it. be contacted or something. Well what if someone does like a twenty three and me in like ten years and they call you up? That's so interesting. my gosh, that's so interesting. Sarah Harding: That's fine. If they that's fine. You know, if they want to. That's fine. Yeah. Yeah. Well, but here's an interesting story that I heard from a friend a couple of weeks ago. And I had no idea about this. So she, speaking of donated embryos, so she got married at 40, 41, I think. And they decided that they want to have kids and weren't able to. And because she'd already she's she was already in menopause. That's why. Hey. Erin Sheffield: gosh. Sarah Harding: Yep, she was already in menopause. So she had entered menopause at I think early. So I think 38, I think is what she said. And they decided that they wanted to have kids. And so their only option was IVF. And I never thought about this. I never thought that you could carry a child after menopause. But she said she just continued the hormone injections throughout the whole first trimester. And then after that, her body took over again. Erin Sheffield: Well. Sarah Harding: I just thought that was wild, but they used a donated embryo. Yeah, because they didn't have much other choice, you know. and so I just thought that was the coolest thing. I had no idea. So Erin Sheffield: Yeah, what else can you do? Well, you hear every once in a while of like fifty, sixty year old women having babies and that's almost always IBF. Even after forty, I've heard like after forty, if it's your first baby, the odds go down significantly. which is too bad for us doctor ladies who have delayed so many of us. They say if you've had babies already, then you might have some ovarian reserve because the whole times you were pregnant you weren't ovulating, so you have a little bit of extra. Sarah Harding: I didn't realize that. I always thought they were just like latent menopause, right. I know. Erin Sheffield: That's what I've heard. I'm not an expert, but it very interesting. So some of the things we've gone through, like the procedurally, let's talk about that a little bit. I know you had to do the what do they call it? The HC. Sarah Harding: Yeah, interesting. Yeah. Mm. Like the egg retrieval. the HSG. Yeah. But I had to do so that with the egg retrieval, did you have I think that they just gave me propofol. I don't even know if I got anything else. But I remember that it was like kind of painful when I woke up. And then like I said to Natalie the other day, I had that ecamosis in my umbilicus afterwards. and it was like kind of uncomfortable, but nothing crazy. But then Erin Sheffield: HSG Mm. yeah, yeah, yeah. Sarah Harding: But then in residency, when I got the IUD, of course I'd never had a kid before at that point. and I got it, no pain control, into this little tiny cervix that had never moved outside of two millimeters, you know, or whatever, a millimeter maybe. And I I passed out. Erin Sheffield: Yeah. Sarah Harding: They left me in the procedure room and I went to get dressed to stand up and I passed out. Erin Sheffield: Well Sarah Harding: 'Cause I was in so much pain, I guess. Erin Sheffield: Okay, this is this is so crazy to me. I've had so many of these little procedures, these like gynaecological OB procedures done without not just without pain control, but without any kind of discussion at all about it. It's just like, okay, we're gonna just do this thing. And they do it, and it's like horrific. And I just think it's crazy. As a doctor, as a surgeon myself, I'm just blown away because. Sarah Harding: Right. Yeah. It'll be quick. Mm-hmm. Right. Erin Sheffield: I was thinking about like these little biopsies we do. There's just like a little gum bump. There's like a little mucosil or like a fibroma, like some scar tissue. I could never imagine just being like, you know, it's gonna be uncomfortable for a minute, but it's so small, it's not worth it. Like I can't believe that what they can get away with. And why can't you just Sarah Harding: Yeah, I wouldn't I would never not anesthetise it. Right. I know. Erin Sheffield: Put a little numbing something up there or tell me to pre med or to offer something. And some of these are like pretty crazy difficult, like painful, like I don't know. And this whole idea that cervix doesn't have nerve endings, like Sarah Harding: Right. Yeah. Yeah. It sure does. Erin Sheffield: my gosh. And someone talked about it on TikTok. This man, like anesthesiologist for like clickbait, started making videos. And I feel like it went so far that it's kind of changed things, thankfully. But that's when I first started hearing it talked about. And now it's like, maybe we should consider offering or at least talking about it for your IUD. But I had IUD. It was terrible. It was so uncomfortable, so painful. Even having a speculum, depending on the provider, can be very uncomfortable. Sarah Harding: my gosh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Erin Sheffield: And then I had a polyp on my cervix and they're just like, we're just gonna get that off of there, like ripping off tissue. Sarah Harding: God. And then it bleeds like stink too. Yeah. Erin Sheffield: Without without anything. Because don't worry, there's no nerve endings there. I promise I have nerve endings there. And then rolling your eyes and acting like you're crazy because you cried and complained, like, the dramatic, crazy lady. And the women OBs are doing it too, because they learn that. Same stuff, the same mentality gets pushed down. And I hate that women's health is still so patriarchal. Even women helping women, it's so hard to undo that. Sarah Harding: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Erin Sheffield: I had granulation. Sarah Harding: Well and then it's not like they had a whole bunch of lectures on where to give local anesthesia, right? Probably not. So, you know. Erin Sheffield: No, yeah. I had a bunch of granulation tissue on my vaginal canal after delivering the twins and I kept bleeding. So they like, we're just gonna cauterize it. So they're like cutting on me, burning on me, shoving things up in me multiple times without any kind of warning, without any kind of counseling, without asking if it's okay. I just think it's crazy. And to me it shows we don't really value women. Sarah Harding: god. god. Right. Erin Sheffield: In their healthcare journey. Tell us about having your HSG done. Tell us what that is and how that is. Sarah Harding: So before I say that, that same IUD that I had placed originally, they cut the strings too short and it migrated up a little bit. And so the strings weren't, you couldn't grab the strings to take it out. And so it took three times for them to get it out. And the first time was in the clinic without anything. the second time, because I was in tears. I I couldn't do it. Erin Sheffield: no. my gosh. my gosh. Sarah Harding: The second time they're like, Okay, we'll come back and we'll do it with local anesthesia. and so scheduled that, took off of work, all of the stuff. went and the doctor wasn't there and it was only a nurse practitioner, and nurse practitioners can't give local anesthesia or something. And I was like, Well, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna have it done without local anesthesia. We've already tried that. Like that, I'm not gonna do that again. And they're like, well, we'll just try once and then and I'm like, no, I'm not gonna do it again. That was just awful. And so then they found a doctor that was like on call or something and came up to do it, gave local anesthesia, was also like wicked painful, local anesthesia. And I'm like in tears, they're in there like digging around. I can still feel everything, still can't get it out. So they have to schedule me in the operating room under general anesthesia to get this thing out. Anyway, so that's Yeah, and it took like, you know, no time at all. Just doop boop, you know, 'cause as soon as I was paralyzed, it was fine. So but anyway, and then Natalie said the other day that they hadn't Erin Sheffield: I mean at least you're comfortable that time. My goodness. I'm sure. my goodness. Sarah Harding: Then like when she first started in medicine, they weren't giving IUDs to women who hadn't had babies. and I feel like the only reason for the only explanation for that, I wish I would have asked. The only explanation for that is that they, because of pain control, Erin Sheffield: Their os is tight or something. Yeah. Interesting. Sarah Harding: And so I don't, you know, that's that would be my guess. but then okay, so then the HSG. So after I had Shep, and so with Shep, I went in to have an ECV because he was breach. And so that's the flippy-doo where they try to flip them over so that they become head down. And so I went in to have that done. And I had an epidural because Erin Sheffield: that sounds great too. Sarah Harding: not really interested in painting that much. So and I watched a couple of videos and I was like, wow. Erin Sheffield: Ha ha At least they offered at that time. That sounds terrible. I can't imagine just like shoving the baby around. You're like, that feels great. Keep Sarah Harding: Yeah. And the OB was on one side and there was a resident on the other side and they like push like this, you know, on you. And so I had an epidural and thank God because his heart rate dropped. I think he had a nuclear cord, so the cord was around his neck when he spun. And his heart rate dropped, and so they had to do an emergency C section. So there was that. and so I've had a lot of weird Erin Sheffield: my gosh, yeah. gosh. my boy. Sarah Harding: Stuff with the scar from that too, but from the skin scar. And so when I was trying to get pregnant with rivers, trying, trying, trying, trying, trying, not getting pregnant, they did all the semen analysis. They're like, well, let's do an HSG. I'm like, okay. and what they do is they insert a catheter into the cervix and they inject some radiographic dye, I guess, and then take an x-ray. And to see the patency of the uterus and the fallopian tubes or not patent, whatever. and they said if you have a driver, we'll give you a prescription for Valium and you can take that, you know, beforehand for anxiety, right? Erin Sheffield: Mm-hmm. Not the pain, just the anxiety. Cause you're crazy. If you're crazy and think think it it hurts, then we'll give you an anti anxiety not a anti pain medication, but an anti anxiety medication. Yeah. Sarah Harding: And I'm like, I know. And I'm like Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Cause obviously it's your issue and you just need to chill. So so I my husband was shocking out of town. And so as he always is. And so I didn't have a driver and I was like, but F that. I'm not I'm not doing this thing again without anything. And so I took an ibuprofen and I took Erin Sheffield: As he is. Sarah Harding: half of the Valium because I'm like, well, if nothing else, I'll have this. and I was like, you know what? If I can't drive myself home, I'll just sit there. and so I get there and I'm sitting there for like an hour waiting, right? And so clearly it's worn off by now. And so then and Erin Sheffield: Right. Yay. Sarah Harding: I'm like, they can finally call me back and it's like this rush, rush, rush. And they have this gal tells me what's gonna happen, sort of. And she puts in the catheter. And I think that what what they're supposed to do is they're supposed to like slowly withdraw it. I don't know. But she withdrew it too quickly, and the dye didn't like maybe a little bit got in, but most of it spilled out. And I felt it. I was like, that feels really wet. That's weird. Erin Sheffield: I don't know either. Sarah Harding: and it because it had just like come out. And then she was like, I'm very sorry. we're gonna have to do that again. And I'm already in tears. I mean, I'm doing all the things, I'm humming, you know, because trying to just stimulate my parasympathetic nervous system. I'm doing all of the things, I'm doing nasal breathing, I'm humming, I'm like, and I'm crying, just tears are running down my face. And I'm like, Erin Sheffield: no. Sarah Harding: Okay, guess we're gonna do this again. You know, I'm already there. I'm already you've already done it, like I'm not gonna just go home and not get any answers. And so then they do it again and get this wonky picture. but it was awful. Erin Sheffield: I've heard that it's awful. Sarah Harding: I mean, it hurts so bad. And I'd even had a child at that well, I guess I hadn't delivered vaginally, but still, like I'd had a child at that point. But I mean, it just hurts so bad. Erin Sheffield: No, I was notoriously uncomfortable. So it's crazy they don't encourage please bring a person in here's some volume. If that's gonna be the strategy, I think that's crazy. Well, it's just for a little while. I don't know. I think that's crazy. And I think sometimes we don't believe patients and when I had my twins, I was bleeding out quite a bit and they're kinda worried about me, so they send me back to the labor and delivery floor instead of the mother baby unit and Sarah Harding: Yeah. Erin Sheffield: They're trying to get more IVs in and get me some fluids. And the nurse started putting one in my arm and it was killing me. I was like, that really hurts. I'm so sorry, but that really, really hurts, please. And she's like, They're supposed I mean, sometimes they kinda I was like, No, I am a doctor and I place IVs. Something is wrong, please. And she was like so annoyed with me, just like Sarah Harding: Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Erin Sheffield: She finally moves it and I was like totally fine. And then she was like, like she must have had it in a nerve or something. It was like stabbing, unrelenting pain. Like Ivy should not be like that. But it's like, so annoying. you know. It's I try to remember those moments. I mean, it's so educational being the patient yourself. I try to remember those. What does this feel like? Sarah Harding: Yeah. No. Yeah. Yes. Erin Sheffield: How scary and unusual is this? How long does it take me to actually fall asleep? All of these things are being like logged into the back of my brain, trying to help patients have better experiences. And it's so easy to just disbelieve the patient or they're being really dramatic. But sometimes something is really wrong and you need to listen. And sometimes it's as simple as a IV, but it was so painful. It's terrible. Sarah Harding: Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I had the same thing, I remember after like it hurt when they put it in and then just having it in, it just continue to be painful, continue to be painful. And I'm looking at it and I'm like, there's something wrong here. And when they finally took it out, I had a huge bruise. I don't even know if they like you know. Erin Sheffield: Yeah, I've had that too. ha And I mean if it's saving your life, then fine. We'll have the brute, you know, that's the only access you can get. But when I have hugely, hugely expanded garden hose veins. Like mine are big anyway, let alone when I'm pregnant. My goodness. She didn't even have to put a tourniquet on because it's just like bloop, you know? So I think that's a good reminder. But yeah, I think they're getting away with crazy stuff in Obigain. Sarah Harding: Right. Right. Yeah. I mean these things like right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Erin Sheffield: I have like a cyst or something and I've been watching it for a while and I'm finally like, I just wanna get rid of this. I don't wanna worry. So I said, But for my next appointment, can you just do it under local? And I'm like, And can you do local please? Can you do it under something or am I gonna totally regret it? I don't know. We'll see, but I will report back. Sarah Harding: Great. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah, it's just so interesting because I do think You know, they can do a lot of different things, right? Because when you have a C section, they can give you an epidural, they can give you a tap block, right? And so you can have these things, but anesthesia's doing that. You know what I mean? And so I just I just don't know what the education is in terms of during residency. Because I've read a lot of stuff from OBGYNs where they the OB stuff is like the stuff that they like and the Gaian stuff is like Erin Sheffield: Yeah, sure. Sarah Harding: We do that because we have to, you know? And so it almost makes you wonder if that's sort of like, well, we just do that because that's part of the practice. It's kind of like if you were a dentist that did cleanings too. You're like, I do that because I do that, right? It's not like I don't really enjoy it. Yeah. But I still, even as a dentist, I still think that I wouldn't be able to tolerate creating that much pain, knowing that I had Erin Sheffield: for sure. Right. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's my maintenance. I have to. Yeah. A hundred percent. Sarah Harding: a modality to decrease that pain and to make it more comfortable. So I don't really get Erin Sheffield: Yeah. Yeah, that's interesting. I just think it's another example of how we don't value women in our society. And part of that is OB care is so emphasized, you learn so much, but then the Guyne care, the postmenopausal care, all of that is not valued. It's once you're not fertile anymore, you don't matter to us as society. So we're just gonna like dump you out. So we don't care about teaching people. Like I remember there's a study that said something like Sarah Harding: Yeah. Erin Sheffield: 70% of med students only get one hour of training on women's health, like outside of OP stuff or obstetrics stuff. And that includes OB. You're like, what the heck? How are the women's fertility specialists so naive about this stuff? We just don't care. And then there's no funding. Sarah Harding: Right. Yeah. Erin Sheffield: For studies and it's even worse now with the Trump DEI stuff I've heard, like after talking to Argivon, who we've had on the podcast, you know, if it says women, the word women in the study at all, the study gets thrown out. And it could just be men and women were in the study. Okay, so we don't the women's health, you know, sector and the I think the national health Sarah Harding: Right. Right. I don't even know. Erin Sheffield: Basically is getting wiped away. It's so frustrating. And then our friend Desiree Walker, who was on before, she's getting really into the HRT women's health stuff as she's going through it herself. She's doing a lot of research and she's doing a lot of posts on that. And something she posted this week was highlighting this study for transdermal estrogen. So estrogen patches for men. For men. Sarah Harding: Alert, there's actually a shortage of transdermal estrogen patches currently for the people that need them. Women. Erin Sheffield: Right. Well and this is for like prostate cancer in men and they're using it for that, but this is like such a small percentage of people. And yet Sarah Harding: Yeah. Erin Sheffield: We won't do studies on women's estrogen hardly. We don't want to learn about that. But men, you know, we'll spend billions of dollars on the little blue pill. Billions of dollars. But maybe it would be worthwhile spending some money to research while your wife isn't helping you have a good enough experience that you can keep it up. I don't know. There's just so many consequences that trickle down, and as we're starting to get to the age where Sarah Harding: Right. Yeah. Erin Sheffield: Through perimenopause, and everything I'm going through is, is this perimenopause or not? Like, I don't know. And I asked my doctor, and I'm like, I don't know anything about this stuff either. And I went to the hematologist recently because I have hemochromatosis. Yay, new genetic disease for me. And as I'm getting the work up, she's asking me all these questions. And I said, Well, yeah, this, but Sarah Harding: Right. Yeah. Erin Sheffield: I wonder if it's perimenopause. And she said, You're too young for perimenopause. And I said, No, I'm not. And she said, Yes, you are. And I said, No, I'm not. And she Yes, you are. And I said, No, I'm not. And she said, Yes, you are. Like we were like arguing. She's younger than me, so it's not gotten much better in recent years. And it's like, why am I arguing with you? Isn't it like 50 and it's 10 years plus or minus? So, like, yeah, I very well could be. Sarah Harding: Right. Yeah. Erin Sheffield: So even she doesn't know, so it's very frustrating. Hopefully we can change things for the better. It I think. Sarah Harding: Yeah. It is it is changing, I think, though. I feel like with you know, with the menopause and all of that stuff. And I think even Rachel Rubin is hosting a series over the next I don't remember when it starts. I think I might actually do it. about menopause and HRT and all of this stuff, right? And so it's like five CEs and yeah. Erin Sheffield: Yeah. Awesome. Well, I my philosophy my thought about it is when you take women's health care and delivery of babies away from the women, the midwives, and then you put it in the hands of these male egotistical doctors who had the God complex of doctors probably at that time. We lost generations Sarah Harding: So I may end up doing that. Mm-hmm. Erin Sheffield: Of wealth of knowledge on child delivery and caring for women. And then when you start wedding women finally into the specialty and into the ranks, we've lived it. We're in the early phases on our specialty, so we see it. But the good old boys club, you gotta be one of the good old boys to make it. And what they teach you, you accept it and you make it yours. And so I think it's taken. Sarah Harding: Yeah. Ray. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. Right. Erin Sheffield: couple generations of women doctors, specifically OB doctors, OB Gyne doctors, to realize, I'm going through this now. And I don't think I'm crazy. And look at me, all of these things are happening to me. And all this time I thought people were crazy. Like Marie Claire Haver talks about the whiny woman. And that was like their diagnosis, like, there's another whiny woman. Or I've even thought our own specialty, like, GMJ, all the things are like, Sarah Harding: Yeah. Yeah. Right. Erin Sheffield: mostly happen to women, it's like we don't believe these are real because men don't have it, so it must not be. So like, TMJ patient, they must be crazy. Vertigo patients, they must be crazy. Fibromyalgia patients, they're crazy. Sarah Harding: Yeah. Yeah. right. Yeah. by the way, think about where all these estrogen receptors are in your joints. Right. And in you know yeah. Yeah. It really is. It is. I think it's it's getting better. And I think the other interesting part about and I I had some great OBs. I love them. That's all. Erin Sheffield: Yeah. They talk about frozen shoulder and all that. Yeah, it's crazy. So it's it's frustrating. Chilling. Sarah Harding: and so I'll put that out there. and so like but right, yeah. And so even with the midwifery as a profession having that, pushing that aside in the way that they have, babies used to be born breach. Like, can it be more dangerous? It can be, but all childbirth is dangerous. Erin Sheffield: No, definitely. This is not really a criticism of them, it's a system. Yeah. Sarah Harding: I mean, all you have to do is live on a farm for a little bit to see that, right? but they were taught how to manage a breach delivery. And once it became like, well, you have to go to medical school, you have to do these things because the good old boys are in charge. Now they don't teach breach delivery. And so what happens if you have Erin Sheffield: Yeah. Right. Sarah Harding: You know, a baby that has always been head down, right? In a good position. And then when I don't know, the water breaks or something, something happens and they now are transverse or their breach, now what are you gonna do? you just go convert to a C section or what? Right? And so, like they just don't have all of the things in their toolbox to be able to manage it, even though that stuff exists and it's been taught and it's been Erin Sheffield: Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. Sarah Harding: Part of the practice in the past. Erin Sheffield: Well, and so much of it is our system of liability and it's probably not worth taking on the liability or the risk if we don't have to, but you know, there's some other potential risk as well. So it's also interesting to talk about, think about. So kind of pivoting a little bit. I just got back from Japan, which was amazing. And I'll say he is. Sarah Harding: Mm-hmm. Yeah. My husband's currently in Japan. I'm sure he's having a ball. Yes. Don't worry, he'll be back next week too. So Erin Sheffield: Of course he is. Of course he is. He's probably eating ramen without us. Anyway. Sarah Harding: Yeah. Right. I'm just I'm eating what my kids left on their plates for breakfast. Erin Sheffield: Right. Yum. Cold, soggy cereal. yours is probably at like avocado toast, but probably my favorite or at least my most impactful experience in Japan is doing the on sen, which is the public bath. So I wanted to talk about that because it's for me, it's like this spiritual experience. Is that something you would do? I remember your sister talking about you skinny dipping, so Sarah Harding: Mm. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. That's like I'm cool. I'm good with that. Erin Sheffield: Yeah. So for me, the first time I did it, it was like a We're in Tokyo, this before we have kids, and we just come across this public bath right there in town. And Abe had been there, my husband, and he was like, Do you wanna do this public bath thing? And I was like, I don't Maybe maybe what do I do? And so you go in and there's a locker room typically and you disrobe and then you sit on like a little stool and you wash and clean your body at a little shower and then you go in the bath. and a lot of times they're like hot springs, but maybe not this one in Tokyo. I'm not probably not. But for me, it was like terrifying that idea of like disrobing for the first time in in public. It was, yeah. It was definitely women, but still. And then part of it's scary too, because I'm like, I don't speak the language and I don't 100% know what I'm supposed to do. So I'm trying to like kind of see what people are doing, but also not trying to watch naked people, like trying to respect their privacy, but also respect the culture. Sarah Harding: But was all women, right? It was all women. Okay. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Erin Sheffield: But I remember being so afraid and it was finally like, ha ha ha ha okay, take it off. And then it's like the second I did, it didn't matter anymore and it was fine. And I just thought, wow. And for me, that was really powerful because for so many reasons, some of it I think is the culture. Our culture is so bizarre. There's this like hypersexualization of bodies. And on one end, we're seeing Victoria, secret model, chesty, mostly naked women on giant billboards and on the side of buildings. And then on the same end, it's like you couldn't possibly Sarah Harding: Yes. Yeah. Erin Sheffield: Go to a bath and take a bath naked where people could see you. So immoral, so immodest, so inappropriate, so gross, so scary. So that dichotomy is so interesting to me. And to just show up and to be there just as a body and no one's looking at you and no one cares. When I'm swimming, I feel like everyone's like looking at everyone's bodies, like, look at her and that bikini, and how's that swimming suit? But Sarah Harding: Yeah. Yeah. Stressful. Nobody cares. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Erin Sheffield: Here no one cares. And so it was like no one was trying to sell me anything. No one was judging or looking at my body. My body was just a body, and bodies are beautiful and they deserve to be taken care of and enjoy this like relaxing ritualistic experience of cleansing your body and just dipping your soul into these healing waters. And I loved it so, so much. Sarah Harding: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I would love to go sometime if I ever get a chance to go to Japan just once, anytime. Erin Sheffield: My number one. That's my number one. And my daughters, we I've done it with them a few times. And my older daughter is like, ugh. They were at first were like, no, we don't want to. And luckily the first time we went, there was no one there. So it was fine. And then by the time someone walked in, it was kind of like, well. But the other part of it for me, when I was a child, they had this traumatic experience where we went to visit a kid, and we've talked about this before. Went to visit a friend and she wasn't there. And so her brother took us inside and made us take a bath. And Sarah Harding: Yeah. yeah. Yeah. Erin Sheffield: We took baths with like babysitters. We were I mean, kids just not uncommon, but it was different. I could tell this wasn't okay. We really didn't want to. And he took turns holding our heads under the water and some other things happen. And so I've had this like deep-seated fear of being like watched. And my biggest fear would be like a homeless person living in my attic and like sneaking down at night. And then they have videos of people where that like actually happens. It's like terrifying. So Sarah Harding: Yeah. Mm. God. Erin Sheffield: That's my biggest fear. And I have dreams at night that people are watching me and they can see me somehow through the walls, through my bedding, through my pajamas, you know, and see me naked. And so me showing up purposely naked in front of people is like this super healing spiritual experience, kind of like taking back my power. So maybe other people won't enjoy as much as I did. Now, if we were in Japan together, it would be like a little middle. Sarah Harding: Mm-hmm. Like lifting the veil, sort of. Yeah. Yeah. I can see that. Erin Sheffield: like, okay, am I going to go get naked in front of a friend? Maybe that would be kinda weird. But I think I would again it would be that. One, two, three, okay, go. I would do it. Sarah Harding: Yeah. Well clearly you weren't there getting ready with us at the at Miraval. It's like Kelsey and I are just getting ready like naked, you know, and Beth walks in, Katie walks in, I'm like, sorry, I'm naked. Erin Sheffield: All right. Well you're better than me. But I think I think it would be like a deep breath moment and then it'd be fine again. But yeah. Sarah Harding: So It is. Our society, I think, really makes for very strange dichotomies. Very strange, like ways of looking at things and thinking of things. Yeah. Yeah. It's like don't talk about sex, but you need to know all about it to be safe about it. And but you're not supposed to talk about it, or know anything about it until it's time and then but you're then you're supposed to know everything and be comfortable with that and yeah. Erin Sheffield: Yeah, it's nonsensical. It doesn't really make sense. Be really good at it. Yeah, exactly. Sarah Harding: Yeah, but don't talk about it. So weird. I don't know. All right. Erin Sheffield: Yeah, so weird. Well, I want to talk about this Maxim competition. It's kind of the same timeline or kind of the same idea. So if you haven't seen my stories, I'm talking about it a lot. My friend Janelle, who I knew in residency, was a neurosurgery resident. She ended up leaving residency and had this crazy pivot where Sarah Harding: All right. Erin Sheffield: She ended up doing modeling and acting and she ended up winning this like popular vote Maxim magazine contest and as a Maxim cover girl. And so now I'm seeing these advertisements with Janelle. I'm like, join this Maxim competition. And I saw they're doing one for people over 40. And I was like, my goodness. I want to join this competition just to show Janelle, like, hey, I joined your competition. I'm trying to be like you. And I started filling it out. And then I got to the point where it was like, upload pictures. And it said, like, upload your modeling photos. And I was like, that's what this is. Is this like really a modeling thing? No. Mm mm mm. So I left it half filled out, not even knowing if I had actually submitted. Sarah Harding: Yeah. Yeah. Erin Sheffield: And so then it's like weeks later, and I keep getting these texts like congrats. And I'm not reading them. It's from Maxim Magazine. I'm like, And then finally I read it. It's like, you won this round. You won the top 30. you won the top 20. Like, I don't know how many rounds I won before I even realized. And so finally it's like, well, if I'm winning all these rounds without trying, maybe I should just ask a few friends to vote for me. And here I am in the quarterfinals. And Sarah Harding: Right. I love it. Erin Sheffield: Then I thought, the quarterfinals is gonna be terrible because it I'm asking like Google, how many people are in this competition? And it's like there's probably gonna be like fifty. There's only five in this round. So I have to win first to win the round, but I'm sitting in first right now. So if anyone wants to vote for me, we could drop the link. But I think it's so funny because it's just I am not like the typical Sarah Harding: Mm-hmm. Nico, what am I clicking in right now to Erin Sheffield: Typical person I imagine being in Maxim magazine. Well, that's that's kinda why I'm like, if I can win this, that's why it would be really cool, right? To like show the world, to show the Maxim community what a 40-something Mormon mommy surgeon can be. So Now it feels like maybe, maybe it could happen. I don't know. So Sarah Harding: But don't you love that? Yeah. Yeah. Erin Sheffield: There's a interview round and I'm like, if I can get there, I think I'm gonna like have a pretty good shot. So vote for me every single day. Sarah Harding: Yeah. I love that. Yeah. So when you did these these pictures that looked like you were on the magazine cover, how'd you do that? That's what I thought. I'm like Erin Sheffield: Uh-huh. AI. I know. I was like, let's visualize what it would look like if I won. And it looks really cool. And I look very gorgeous. Thank you, AI. Sarah Harding: Those are great. You know. Does kinda look like the I love that. Erin Sheffield: But that's my story. It was kind of an accident, but I don't know. Let's show the world what we can do. Over forty. Sarah Harding: That's right. Can't you can't you can't win if you don't try. Erin Sheffield: No, you never win a contest you don't enter. So I don't know. I have no idea if I have a chance, but we're just, you know, manifesting this round. So yeah. Sarah Harding: Yeah. I did notice the other pictures, a lot of the other pictures are women in their modeling photos or like the typical modeling photos, speaking of hypersexualization. And like, how can I get, you know, how can I get more votes? I can show more skin and I can all of this stuff. And you're like, still we're doing that. Erin Sheffield: Ha ha yeah, I know. Yeah. And mine are like literally selfies. I know it's like all of them are like my arm bent. I'm either like flexing or doing like a peace sign or like I don't know. I was like, well, taking a picture, a selfie. So I clearly didn't try very hard in my photos, but I don't know. That's what's fun about it, I think. So yeah, for sure. So vote for me. I'm probably getting annoying asking people to vote for me as much as I am, but I just really need the support. Sarah Harding: Ha ha ha Yeah. Love that. I actually need the reminder, so thanks. I just actually voted while we were just talking about it 'cause Erin Sheffield: Me too. Thanks. If you're listening, vote in the afternoon or the evening because it's often double points. And I'm like if I voted the wrong time, then I'm like, dang it, I missed it. So yeah. So there you go. Let's win this thing. Sarah Harding: Mm. I see. There you go. That's how they getcha. Let's win it. Yeah. I do think it's funny that they're like, Hey, do this extra vote for something radiance something and then there's like a two thousand dollar donation to some something and I'm like yesterday, that's what it was. Yeah. I'm like, I don't know. Erin Sheffield: Let's win it. Here we go. interesting. I don't know. You can like pay to play. You could buy magazines and it gets you more votes. And I haven't done that. I posted on some dental forum, like, hey, this is funny vote for me. And someone was like, these are scams. These are pay to play things. And I felt kind of embarrassed. But then I was like, well, I haven't paid to play and I've still won. And my friend won this thing. And I'm not trying to be a model. Sarah Harding: Yeah. Erin Sheffield: Not trying to jump start any kind of modeling career. So if that were me and you're preying on poor up and coming models to pay money, maybe, but I'm just I'm just here. And maybe if I sp Sarah Harding: Right. Yeah. I'm here to say I'm not gonna buy any Maxim magazines unless you're actually on the cover. So Erin Sheffield: Right. But if anyone does want to, if you're a Maxim fan, just wait till their double magazine points days. And I've got a few more rounds to go, so I'm kind of like saving that if I need to spend, you know, twenty dollars to buy myself some boats, maybe I will, but I'm still holding out. Sarah Harding: Love it. All right. Well I gotta go pick up the kids. Erin Sheffield: All right. Yeah. Thank you for joining us for another episode of the Resting Stitch Face podcast. As always, like, follow, and share, and go give me a vote. Check out the link in the show notes, and we'll talk to you later. Bye. Sarah Harding: Okay.