Latest / Rusty's Garage / Colin Bond | Part 2 - Factory Holdens, Fords and world class rally cars

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Colin Bond | Part 2 - Factory Holdens, Fords and world class rally cars · Rusty's Garage

• 0:02
  A listener production.
• 0:14
  I'm automotive commentator and journalist Greg Rust, and this is Rusty's Garage.
• 0:25
  It's Rusty here, all set for part two of my podcast with Hall of Famer Colin Bond.
• 0:30
  This chat is way overdue and I'm so glad after working at Bathurst together, doing a couple of Q&As, that we finally made it happen.
• 0:38
  It reminded me that he's missing from our library and lots of you have been asking or requesting that we get him on.
• 0:44
  If you've arrived here without checking out part one, jump back to the library now and fire it up.
• 0:49
  From growing up in Sydney's lower north shore and finding motorsport quite by chance, to working around cars and learning how to best prepare them and to show the internationals that he could build world-class competition cars right here, down the road.
• 1:04
  under there are memories of great names and long gone great racetracks too that you'll enjoy as colin climbs the ladder across all sorts of classes from amateur to professional while staying true to his roots and the almost signature family man quality that he became widely known in motorsport for let's get into part two now
• 1:28
  Sitting in front of us as you and I talk is a timesheet from the 36th Australian Grand Prix at Warwick Farm.
• 1:34
  We're talking 21st of November, 1971.
• 1:37
  You are top of this practice timesheet.
• 1:43
  In a McLaren from Alan Hamilton, Frank Maddich, Graham Lawrence, Frank Gardner is in there, John Surtees, Kevin Bartlett, I mean, Johnny Harvey.
• 1:53
  The list is, it's an unbelievable roll-up of names.
• 1:56
  I'm missing others.
• 1:57
  Alfie Costanzo is further down the order and so on.
• 2:00
  Tell me about the story of this.
• 2:02
  I love it because there's a bit of, I mean, it says here very clearly, steady rain.
• 2:07
  Yeah.
• 2:07
  Now tell me about what unfolds here because this is quite a good story, isn't it?
• 2:10
  Well, it is, but I have to go a little bit beforehand.
• 2:13
  When Frank offered me to drive.
• 2:15
  Frank Madich.
• 2:16
  Frank Madich, the McLaren.
• 2:17
  Yeah.
• 2:18
  He said, look, you know, come and drive.
• 2:19
  We'll do the Australian Grand Prix.
• 2:21
  Then we'll do the Tasman Series, which meant, you know, four races to New Zealand, four races to Australia.
• 2:26
  Then we'll go to America, do the L&M Series.
• 2:28
  Amazing.
• 2:29
  Amazing.
• 2:29
  See, I love it.
• 2:30
  And that Tasman series back then, the chance to go over summer and things and the races, it was huge, wasn't it?
• 2:35
  And big names came out from England and so on, didn't they?
• 2:38
  Oh, yeah, no, no, no.
• 2:38
  But anyway, I said to Frank, well, can I get a driver beforehand?
• 2:44
  He said, oh, yeah, we'll hire the short circuit at Warwick Farm and you can go out there and go around, yeah.
• 2:48
  And the short circuit's pretty short and it doesn't really relate to any of the other corners except two corners.
• 2:54
  How big a step was this for you?
• 2:55
  I mean, you'd done a variety of things.
• 2:58
  Yeah, well, see, the Lynx was quick and all that sort of stuff, you know, and things.
• 3:02
  But this had a lot more grip, of course.
• 3:04
  It had big white trellis and, you know, it had plenty of air as well, like wings and things.
• 3:09
  So did you get much running beforehand, the way you were talking?
• 3:12
  Well, I said to him afterwards, I said, look, Frank, that was terrific.
• 3:15
  But I said, I'm racing the Tirana up in Surfers Paradise, you know, in two weeks' time.
• 3:22
  Why can't I take it up?
• 3:23
  Because I wouldn't mind giving it a run like under the bridge and that with the fast corners just to see what these things are like.
• 3:28
  Feels like, yeah.
• 3:29
  With a bit of grip and a bit of speed, you know, for Christ's sake.
• 3:32
  And he said, oh, okay, then I'll take Tommy Nailard and you can go, you know.
• 3:37
  So that's okay.
• 3:37
  So off we go.
• 3:39
  And not only that, then Brock and I were up there anyway with the XU1s.
• 3:42
  Ones, yeah, yeah.
• 3:44
  Probably XU1s.
• 3:44
  Yeah.
• 3:45
  Anyway, and it was around the Manufacturers Championship, which we won that year anyhow.
• 3:51
  So, you know, driving the car around there, I mean, I got in a race with all the Formula...
• 3:57
  Formula Vs and Formula 4.
• 3:59
  You would have smoked those things.
• 4:03
  We just went in a race and had a racing car or something.
• 4:05
  I didn't know what it was.
• 4:07
  All comers, all comers, basically.
• 4:09
  We obviously won that one.
• 4:10
  Yes.
• 4:12
  Okay.
• 4:13
  Anyhow.
• 4:15
  And sort of it was mentioned that, you know, I was taking it easy up the straight and that and then trying through the corners and I was about two seconds slower than when Frank was in the same car at the circuit, which wasn't bad when I was only just looking after it.
• 4:26
  And of course he sent Joan up as well just to make sure we weren't having a good time.
• 4:29
  Time, okay.
• 4:30
  Exactly.
• 4:32
  So anyhow, so the next meeting now was Warwick Farm, you know.
• 4:34
  Farm, yeah.
• 4:35
  And now you're on the long circuit at Warwick Farm.
• 4:37
  Yep.
• 4:38
  Which I'd raced there, got a bit, you know, with Taranas and things.
• 4:41
  So that was a, that was a, boom.
• 4:43
  So anyhow, the first practice session, or not practice, it was qualifying, is wet.
• 4:48
  And Frank said, look, I've only got four tyres mounted, wet the tyres.
• 4:51
  You know, so I'll put them on my car.
• 4:53
  This is when he had the, he built the A50 thing.
• 4:55
  And I had the McLaren, which was the car he'd previously been driving.
• 5:00
  And I'm standing in the pits watching these guys splash around in these Formula 5000s and things.
• 5:06
  So I'm thinking, oh, my God, I'm going to be 10 seconds off the pace here.
• 5:10
  I've never driven one of these in the wet, you know.
• 5:13
  So he goes and runs first and the idea is that the tyres would come off his car and go onto yours.
• 5:17
  And the wheels.
• 5:17
  Wheels and tyres.
• 5:17
  Wheels and tyres, yeah.
• 5:18
  Wheels and tyres, yeah.
• 5:19
  Okay.
• 5:19
  Yeah?
• 5:19
  Yeah, because the session was probably half an hour or something, you know.
• 5:22
  Anyway.
• 5:23
  So I put them on and out I go.
• 5:25
  And I'm just convinced in my own mind that I'm going to be 10 seconds off the pace.
• 5:29
  So I'm trying really hard.
• 5:32
  It's more like a rally car, Jimmy, actually, than a race car and sliding.
• 5:36
  I'm quick and locking brakes, everything, around the corners, you know.
• 5:39
  But I was making it around...
• 5:41
  You know, I think myself, it's got me stuffed out.
• 5:43
  They drive these things any faster.
• 5:46
  But the time sheet.
• 5:47
  And then the time sheet came out.
• 5:47
  The time sheet says something so different, doesn't it?
• 5:49
  Yeah.
• 5:49
  I mean, I couldn't believe it.
• 5:50
  What, nearly two seconds or something faster than.
• 5:52
  You're over two seconds fast.
• 5:55
  Oh, sorry, sorry.
• 5:55
  What I missed.
• 5:56
  1.48.4 for you.
• 5:57
  Yeah.
• 5:57
  Alan Hamilton, the next best is a 1 minute 49.9.
• 6:00
  Yeah.
• 6:01
  Frank's a 1 minute 50.
• 6:03
  I mean.
• 6:04
  I know.
• 6:04
  What?
• 6:05
  And to think today that the whole field of Bathurst last week was within… Top ten were covered by two tens of a season.
• 6:11
  Two tens, you know.
• 6:14
  I mean, it did dry out, mind you, for the second session.
• 6:17
  Yes.
• 6:17
  And I finished about six.
• 6:18
  You know, Frank put it on pole like he normally would and he won the race.
• 6:22
  Yeah.
• 6:23
  I was going quite good.
• 6:23
  I was with KB running around and then the harmonic balancer came off and took the oil pump right with it.
• 6:30
  So we had no oil pressure, so we just ground to a halt.
• 6:33
  But Frank won it and he gave me Finney's second that day.
• 6:36
  Did it prompt you?
• 6:37
  There's a lovely forward in the book written by Alan Jones, the 1990 Formula One world champion, and he reflects very much about your talent and, you know, it's world class in his eyes.
• 6:49
  At this point, did it prompt you to, I mean, perhaps, you know, you were thinking about family and whatever else.
• 6:54
  We'll talk about Robin soon.
• 6:56
  But did it make you think about maybe going overseas?
• 6:59
  Oh, of course you.
• 7:00
  I thought, well, that sounds pretty good for me because I hadn't signed a deal with Holden or any the following year, whatever it was.
• 7:07
  And then a couple of weeks later I get a phone call from Frank saying, oh, by the way, I just sold your car to Frank Radishish in New Zealand.
• 7:14
  Paul Radishish's dad.
• 7:15
  Yeah, Paul Radishish's dad.
• 7:17
  I said, oh.
• 7:18
  Yeah.
• 7:19
  So that changes everything because there was talk of America and everything, wasn't there?
• 7:22
  Does that mean we're not doing the Tasman series?
• 7:24
  Oh, no, we'll build another A30 or A50 of course.
• 7:28
  50, yeah.
• 7:29
  And I said, you mean we're not going to do the Tasman series?
• 7:34
  I'm going to go to America with you to do the L&M series on tracks I've never even seen before, you know, in a car that I've never even driven before.
• 7:44
  Frank, I think I might just stick with Holden.
• 7:49
  I think as it turned out, as Rodman, of course, he didn't go to America anyway that year.
• 7:54
  He'd been the previous year in that, but yeah.
• 7:56
  It was one of the key points of your career.
• 7:59
  Firstly, come back, people will love the fact that you were a Bathurst winner in the late 60s.
• 8:04
  What did that mean to you, that race?
• 8:06
  Well, all of a sudden you got no one.
• 8:08
  You know, it was like, it was televised in those days a bit and, you know, I did an ad, you know, with the squash player, champion squash player, Heather Mackay.
• 8:20
  Okay, yes, that sounds right.
• 8:22
  You know, all sorts of things and people all of a sudden get to know you.
• 8:26
  Yes.
• 8:26
  And not only that, you're being paid to drive because you picked up prize money and things, we didn't get a lot of money but...
• 8:32
  It was a 500 mile back then, was it not?
• 8:34
  I'm trying to remember the distance.
• 8:35
  What was the distance back then?
• 8:37
  Oh, 500 miles.
• 8:39
  Look, it wasn't much different.
• 8:41
  But, like, I think if you converted it, it might have been 800 and something.
• 8:45
  Something Ks.
• 8:46
  Ks.
• 8:47
  So they went to 1,000 because it was just easier than sort of a funny number.
• 8:51
  Yeah.
• 8:52
  Probably 100, it could have been 130-something.
• 8:55
  The only reason I know that is Sandown and Bathurst were the same number of laps.
• 9:00
  Okay.
• 9:00
  And we had the same tyre and brake wear nearly on both tracks.
• 9:04
  Like we used to do Sandown the week or three weeks before Bathurst.
• 9:08
  What was the race like?
• 9:09
  Because you've described it as being a dangerous place in, you know, a little earlier there.
• 9:13
  And so what was it like for that year?
• 9:15
  Well, I mean, we'd already raced there plenty of times anyway, so we didn't think it was dangerous.
• 9:20
  But I can remember Hank Walters coming in the pits afterwards and he said, I think I just killed someone.
• 9:25
  He said, well, we're coming through McPhilmy Park and there was a little Nissan.
• 9:29
  And I think I bumped it and it disappeared off.
• 9:30
  the circuit over the hill.
• 9:32
  Over the hill.
• 9:32
  Because there was nothing there.
• 9:33
  I mean, as it turned out, he was okay.
• 9:36
  No walls back then is what you're talking about in that section.
• 9:38
  But even Tony Roberts next year after we won in 69, in 70, he drove a Ford there and with about four or five laps to go around and it breaks over Skyline and just disappeared.
• 9:48
  Crash, bang, bing, bang, you know.
• 9:52
  So, look, it was, well, as we said, in those days, motor racing was dangerous.
• 9:57
  But everyone accepted it.
• 9:59
  You didn't think.
• 10:00
  Anything more of it?
• 10:01
  No, more of it.
• 10:02
  So you get a little more known from what you've achieved at Bathurst.
• 10:06
  And what transpires then?
• 10:07
  Because you talked about Harry and dealer team and so on.
• 10:10
  Just take us into that period.
• 10:11
  Well, see, soon after Bathurst and we won it, the next thing I did was the Southern Cross rally for Mitsubishi for the last time.
• 10:19
  And we got third in the 1500 CC car.
• 10:23
  But then we went to Lakeside and they had the Lakeside 1500 on it.
• 10:29
  It was three races of some 20 laps, something.
• 10:31
  I won all those.
• 10:32
  Yeah.
• 10:33
  And then next race, Tony and I, the Surfers Paradise for the 12-hour race.
• 10:39
  Mm-hmm.
• 10:40
  And we're back on the Michelins for that because the tyre wear was such horrific at surfers in those days.
• 10:45
  Mm-hmm.
• 10:46
  And we won that.
• 10:47
  And then I went to Warwick Farm in the Monaro, Moffat and all those, and won that and set a new lap record.
• 10:55
  So I was on a roll basically.
• 10:58
  And like even when we went to Lakeside.
• 11:00
  Are you a full-time motor racer by this stage?
• 11:02
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 11:02
  That's lovely.
• 11:02
  Absolutely.
• 11:04
  And a mechanic for Harry again.
• 11:08
  Yes.
• 11:09
  He'd just ring Haycock, you know, and those days better deal with TA.
• 11:12
  So you'd get yourself down if you want to bring your own family away.
• 11:16
  So, look, they were good days.
• 11:18
  They were really good days as well.
• 11:21
  And not only that, like at Lakeside and that –
• 11:26
  And like even after that, you know, we'd go up there and Peter would be towing his car and I'd be towing my car.
• 11:32
  Wow.
• 11:33
  You know, and that was it.
• 11:34
  Yeah, that's how you did it then.
• 11:35
  We went to Lakeside and we were changing tyres.
• 11:37
  We were the mechanics as well as, you know, the race drivers and things.
• 11:41
  Yeah.
• 11:42
  And Harry would turn up and that was about it, you know.
• 11:45
  Okay.
• 11:45
  So, I mean, look, it was a lot of fun, I must admit.
• 11:49
  And, like, even after the races we used to mix with everybody, you know, like the Castrol tent and the Shell tent and all that sort of stuff.
• 11:58
  You know, something that gets missed a bit today, I think, has become too professional that people are packing up and getting ready to get on a plane or what, as soon as the race is finished and off they go.
• 12:07
  Yep.
• 12:09
  But, yeah, look, it was, well, I think that whole period was a nice golden era because the drivers, we could actually, like I say,
• 12:19
  suggest modifications, what we should do to the car, to the boys, you know.
• 12:23
  Whereas today I don't think the drivers have any input hardly in what they want on the car because everyone's watching the wiggly lines and when you come in they know what we're going to do.
• 12:33
  And your work had taught you so much that helped in that regard, hadn't it?
• 12:37
  Come to your lovely wife, Robin, who's looked after us here today when I've arrived and so on.
• 12:42
  There is a yarn around meeting her and I think Harry had asked you to come down and work on the car and you might have been staying at the captain's, were you?
• 12:49
  Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 12:50
  And Robin came down and he was in the paper or something at the time.
• 12:53
  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 12:55
  I mean, Jansen was something else, you know, really.
• 12:57
  You had to be careful of Jansen, that's all.
• 12:59
  Look, it's really funny.
• 13:02
  When you spoke to him, you thought he was English and he'd come from a very high... Cultured.
• 13:09
  He was actually New Zealand, though.
• 13:10
  Was he?
• 13:13
  But he'd kind of greet you in the sort of smoking jacket and everything, I think, wouldn't he, at the front door?
• 13:17
  Oh, absolutely, absolutely.
• 13:18
  And the make-up on would be six inches thick just about, you know, around him in.
• 13:21
  But look, apart from all that, he was a very good driver, actually.
• 13:26
  I mean, at Bathurst he did quite well, him and Larry Perkins, you know, a couple of events in it.
• 13:31
  And I think actually they were the ones that finished behind us when Moffat and I were first and second.
• 13:37
  And not only that, he used to rally and things as well, you know.
• 13:42
  But he was sort of a person who was connected in a lot of respects.
• 13:47
  Like, of course, when he came to Australia and that, he was called Captain Peter Jansen because he said he was a captain in the Butan Army.
• 13:58
  Nobody in this world had been to Butan.
• 14:01
  So now I can verify this is what you're saying.
• 14:03
  Exactly.
• 14:05
  Robin's been an amazing support mate.
• 14:06
  I think that funny story is around him answering the door with a glass of champagne and her wanting to run a mile.
• 14:12
  I think Graham Hill's wife had established a thing in the UK with lots of the wives and partners that was around supporting the drivers in safety and so on.
• 14:21
  And Robin was heavily involved in something like that here, wasn't she?
• 14:24
  Yeah, the doghouse club, which was called in England.
• 14:27
  Well, in those days there was not a lot of fire extinguishers and things around, you know, for the people around the track, you know.
• 14:34
  So it was the Down Under Dog House Club, wasn't it?
• 14:36
  Yeah, this there was the Down Under Dog House Club and a few of the wives and that got together first and they just put on things afterwards, you know, barbecues and, you know, all sorts of things, just raise some money.
• 14:49
  And in the end they bought, you know, some fire trucks and some fire extinguishers and all this sort of stuff and jaws of life and what have you because, you know, they sort of felt that...
• 15:02
  We needed it.
• 15:03
  And the actual, you know, the people, you know, around all the circuits weren't supplying that type of deal.
• 15:08
  And then, you know, I mean, it's, again, that's all water under the bridge compared to what they've got down here.
• 15:15
  But it certainly helped along the way because it was missing, wasn't it?
• 15:18
  Absolutely, you know.
• 15:19
  Well, not only that, I mean, even I think Orang Park, I was at Orang Park and one of the guys was killed, you know, in one of those, like, Lotus 20s or something, you know.
• 15:28
  And you go...
• 15:30
  And you see things happening around you.
• 15:32
  I mean, you're still, you never, and it's one of those funny things, again, you never think about it.
• 15:40
  I mean, even Spencer Martin, you know, when he drove the Monaro, first time down at Sandown, ran out of brakes.
• 15:48
  and went backwards through the arm car at the end of the pit straight and the thing caught fire because it split the fuel tank open and everything else.
• 15:55
  He couldn't get out of the car because the door wouldn't open, but the window was open and he was a bit skinny anyway and he got out.
• 16:01
  He said it was that close to being a life.
• 16:04
  Dead thing.
• 16:06
  But then, see, I was originally supposed to go with him at Sandown.
• 16:09
  Oh, wow.
• 16:10
  I went to New Guinea instead, so KB drove with him that day.
• 16:14
  Yep.
• 16:14
  Well, didn't drive in there because the car only lost.
• 16:17
  But between there and Bathurst,
• 16:20
  We got different wheels for the cars because the wheels that were on the Monaro at the time were solid steel wheels.
• 16:27
  Yes, yes.
• 16:27
  So we got some probably off an LTD or something, one of those, which had slots in it just to get a bit more air out, right?
• 16:33
  Yep, yep.
• 16:33
  And then Harry cut some slots underneath the front mud yards and things, bumper bar, sorry, to get a bit more air.
• 16:39
  Air into it, yeah.
• 16:40
  So that's it.
• 16:43
  And then the next race was Bathurst, which, as I said, was an interesting thing because, you know, the boys drove all the cars up from Melbourne.
• 16:51
  They rode the road, they rode the reds, they got the numblates on them.
• 16:54
  Unreal.
• 16:55
  And then you go.
• 16:57
  So...
• 16:59
  And because Spencer didn't come at the last minute, Harry got Peter McEnroe to turn up, right?
• 17:04
  Mm-hmm.
• 17:05
  Who drove Formula 2.
• 17:06
  And Hank Walters was there as well.
• 17:09
  So he had them in car one.
• 17:11
  Mm-hmm.
• 17:12
  And then Matani Roberts and myself were in car two and Peter Brock and Desi West were in three.
• 17:17
  Mm-hmm.
• 17:20
  Anyhow, we go out and practice.
• 17:22
  We had Michelins on.
• 17:24
  And Digby Cook was there when I'm in our own.
• 17:27
  Anyway, Moffat was on pole.
• 17:29
  And then Digby Cook was second because he put race tyres on, firestone race tyres in those days.
• 17:37
  And I saw Harry had a set of firestone race tyres.
• 17:39
  I said, Harry...
• 17:41
  Can I have a go on those bloody fast ones?
• 17:43
  They've got to be fast.
• 17:44
  He says, no, cock, don't worry about it.
• 17:45
  I'm going, Jesus, Harry, they've got to be better.
• 17:48
  No, cock, they won't fit your car.
• 17:54
  I mean, look, it was the same with the Fords.
• 17:56
  You have to massage things.
• 17:57
  You know, the Fords, they had to grind away the top ball joint or something and they'd stick with it or clearance.
• 18:02
  Anyway, but...
• 18:04
  Anyway, so, I mean, he was three seconds lap fast then beyond the bloody, which he should be, you know, anyway.
• 18:09
  So, anyway, when the race started, you know, lap one, Billy Brown had a bad practice session.
• 18:17
  He was only on three cylinders or something.
• 18:19
  He's coming through the field and he passes someone over Skyline, gets pushed up the bank, rolls over.
• 18:24
  Famous vision, famous vision, yes.
• 18:26
  Famous vision, anyway.
• 18:28
  We're all ahead of that.
• 18:30
  And Moffat going up from the start up Mountain Straight, you can't select gears.
• 18:35
  You can't get a gear or something.
• 18:37
  Oh, wow.
• 18:38
  Yeah.
• 18:38
  So he's back there somewhere now.
• 18:40
  So anyway, the race keeps continuing, you know, and the gap through where the car's where they're making a bit bigger every lap, so it was fine.
• 18:47
  So Pete Gagan was leading and I was there and did me cool.
• 18:52
  And then our other, you know, I suppose Brock and then there must have been behind me.
• 18:56
  So we went on and then this is where the forwards all started blowing tyres and things.
• 19:01
  Okay.
• 19:01
  All that sort of stuff.
• 19:01
  Yeah.
• 19:02
  So anyhow, so Pete Gaglin blows a rear tyre.
• 19:07
  And he goes, Digby Cook sort of goes in and puts a car driver in.
• 19:12
  That got rid of both of them.
• 19:13
  So now I'm in the lead.
• 19:14
  Wow.
• 19:15
  Which we never lost until the end.
• 19:16
  End.
• 19:17
  But at one stage, Bo Seaton was in the car anyway.
• 19:24
  He was in the Ford on race side.
• 19:26
  He was catching me.
• 19:29
  We're just sort of looking at the times, no problems, no problems.
• 19:32
  But he got reasonably close.
• 19:34
  I could see him in the rear vision mirror.
• 19:36
  And then he had a blow tire and next to me he's upside down, you know.
• 19:39
  Freddie Gibson was with him, that's right.
• 19:40
  So they were upside down.
• 19:42
  And this sort of happened that particular day, you know, on the forwards.
• 19:47
  And it was Bruce McPhee that came second and Bruce McPhee was on Michelins the same as us.
• 19:51
  Okay.
• 19:52
  But he had a problem just at the beginning.
• 19:55
  He must bump something and it threw him out as far as the fuel stops went.
• 20:00
  So we knew he still had to stop one more time when I didn't.
• 20:04
  So once he stopped, it was a big breeze, you know.
• 20:08
  But it was interesting because, you know, he always had the same co-driver, Bruce McFeeham, than Barry Mule Holland.
• 20:15
  Barry Mule Holland has only ever done five laps before
• 20:18
  of Bathurst in the race because he used to drive one lap and get out and then Bruce would take over.
• 20:23
  Okay.
• 20:23
  He's been on the dire centre.
• 20:25
  He's won two and been second or something on the others.
• 20:28
  I mean, it would be a record that you'd never beat.
• 20:31
  Different now with the minimum laps that the driver has to do.
• 20:34
  Oh, no, no.
• 20:34
  I mean, see, it was sort of funny because in the old days we used to drive one.
• 20:38
  By yourself.
• 20:38
  Yes.
• 20:39
  And you still, you can, you know, there's no two ways about it.
• 20:42
  Maybe the current cars you can't.
• 20:44
  But then the FIO came out and said you can only drive for three and a half hours and you have to have an hour off.
• 20:48
  Maximum continuous time.
• 20:49
  All that sort of stuff, you know.
• 20:50
  So like with the Moffat thing, we could do it in quarters.
• 20:53
  We had enough fuel, you know.
• 20:56
  to do it in quarters, you only had you one, two, three stops basically and you put your tyres on refuelled and you could get to the halfway before the three and a half hours.
• 21:05
  Okay, okay.
• 21:07
  Of course, we didn't have safety cards in those days, so at least it was a bit more easier to actually calculate, whereas today with safety cards, you would never know whether or whatever.
• 21:19
  But that's just another factor that they've got to comply with now.
• 21:21
  Anyway.
• 21:24
  Yeah, so it was sort of all different.
• 21:26
  But, look, I still enjoyed, as I said before, we could ask Harry and say, Harry...
• 21:34
  We want some stiffer springs in the front or the back or something around there.
• 21:37
  Oh, okay, cock, you know.
• 21:39
  And you would get it.
• 21:42
  If the lap times didn't change but it made it safer or better, it was still a better one, you know what I mean?
• 21:47
  Yeah.
• 21:48
  We could do – and we used to work on that all the time.
• 21:51
  You know, Peter and I were really good at that, I think, one thing.
• 21:54
  Yeah.
• 21:55
  And we used to talk to each other a bit, a bit.
• 21:57
  I mean, they do it now, but now they look at each other's bloody maps, you know, and you go, oh, my God, brother.
• 22:03
  Look, it's – the other thing I must say, doing motorsport –
• 22:11
  Not doing any other sport like golf professionally in the end.
• 22:14
  Yep.
• 22:14
  Like now, you know, I'm 83 for God's sake.
• 22:18
  Everything still works.
• 22:18
  I've never broken a bone.
• 22:20
  Lovely.
• 22:20
  I've got the original knees, the bows, all that sort of stuff.
• 22:23
  Considering the period you came through, that's quite a story.
• 22:25
  That's quite good.
• 22:26
  Well, not really because I look like Spencer Martin.
• 22:28
  I see Spencer Martin most important.
• 22:30
  He's, you know, having coffee.
• 22:31
  He's still there.
• 22:32
  He's a couple of years older than me.
• 22:34
  And you look at most of the drivers, they're still okay, you know, because I think the car does all the work.
• 22:39
  Yes.
• 22:40
  You know, I look at these rugby league players and I don't know how old they'll ever be.
• 22:45
  But, I mean, you're talking about injuries at like 40 and things.
• 22:48
  Oh, just, yeah, I mean, just the body is being smashed all the time, you know.
• 22:51
  I mean, they seem to do it and they seem to do it for 200 meetings or 200 events.
• 22:55
  I don't know.
• 22:55
  I mean, you just...
• 22:57
  I just sort of look at it now and think, to me, it's a bit like boxing.
• 23:00
  I don't think boxing should be, honestly, in the Olympics because probably 300 years ago it was the only thing you could do.
• 23:06
  Do.
• 23:07
  But see, now the idea is to knock your mate out.
• 23:10
  And you think, well, everyone says you shouldn't knock anyone out.
• 23:13
  And if they do, they should be.
• 23:16
  Yeah, exactly.
• 23:16
  It's not good for your brain, brain injuries and things, yes.
• 23:18
  Yeah, but that's, you know, if I said that, they go, oh, the people who are into boxing, oh, no, come on, mate.
• 23:24
  You're just, that's safety.
• 23:25
  The book is great because through your eyes, which John has captured, you talk about the Holden Dealer team chapter and you talk about the four chapter.
• 23:33
  I won't get into that here because I think we want people to read the book and to talk about the beaks and troughs in all of that.
• 23:38
  People would be interested in the key cars there in a circuit racing sense.
• 23:42
  So let's come to XU1 first and maybe a fond memory of the XU1 and what that thing was like.
• 23:47
  Well, the best thing with XU1, which probably was the wrong thing to do at the time, but the first time we raced it was at Warwick Farm and Harry drove it up from Melbourne and we'd practice and it had a slight problem.
• 24:00
  I don't know what's wrong with it, but it just led us to look and we only qualified sixth.
• 24:05
  And there was all these Monaros ahead of us, Bob Jane, you know, Bob Morris, you know, Vincent Martin, it goes on.
• 24:12
  Anyhow, when the race started, every time down in the creek corner, I could get another, outbrake them, you know, boom, boom, boom, until I got to Bob Jane on the last lap sort of thing and outbraked him and then he tried to pump me off coming through the S's but I got away.
• 24:30
  I got away enough and won the race.
• 24:34
  And then Harry said, I knew that XU1.
• 24:37
  They go, well, the XU1 was a terrific track, most tracks.
• 24:41
  Yes.
• 24:41
  All the flat tracks, you know, no drama.
• 24:43
  But at the mountain, those bloody Fords would just come out and overtake us.
• 24:47
  Gotcha, gotcha.
• 24:48
  Not only that, you know, because at the end of the day you say, well, we need a V8 the same, you know, because...
• 24:54
  The flat track's not a problem, but something like that, when you're at the hill and what have you and the long straights, you know, you need the V8 or you need the turbocharger like what happened later when you had Sears or something.
• 25:04
  Yes, yes, yes.
• 25:05
  But look, it was a great rally car, you know.
• 25:09
  I mean, I won three rally championships with it, came second, two others.
• 25:14
  That was so integral to your circuit racing with them, wasn't it, what you were doing in the rally sense?
• 25:19
  Yeah, it was.
• 25:20
  Look, it was...
• 25:22
  You know, I was thinking, what's a nice car like you doing in a sport like this or something?
• 25:26
  That was one of the slackens that the GM used to put out in those days, you know.
• 25:30
  Yeah.
• 25:30
  But, yeah, look, I think in hindsight I always go back, oh, my God, I wish we had driven the Monaros for the second year at Bathurst.
• 25:38
  Okay.
• 25:39
  In 71.
• 25:39
  Yeah.
• 25:40
  Because in 70, I mean, because Ford didn't go any faster.
• 25:45
  Mm-hmm.
• 25:46
  We would have been on race tires ourselves now, you know what I mean, all that sort of stuff, and we were competitive with them.
• 25:51
  Yes.
• 25:52
  And... Are you saying that, I mean, it's ifs, buts and maybes, Colin, but are you saying it could have been a back-to-back for you had you perhaps done that?
• 26:00
  Oh, well, you know, myself or Peter or someone, you know.
• 26:02
  I mean, I just think we would have had the weapons to actually... To do that, yeah.
• 26:06
  See what actually happened to them, even though I lived for the first five laps, you know, in the XU1.
• 26:10
  Yeah.
• 26:11
  Often then we just look after their brakes initially, I think, and then they just pulled out and went past.
• 26:15
  Okay.
• 26:16
  Okay.
• 26:17
  Well, goodbye.
• 26:17
  Anyway, look, that's the way it was.
• 26:21
  But look, XU1s, yeah, look, I just think that Holden wanted XU1 because they didn't sell enough Monaros to make it sort of feasible.
• 26:36
  Okay, yeah, yeah.
• 26:37
  And they could produce the XU1 and convince XU1
• 26:41
  also GM in America.
• 26:42
  It's only a car for rallies.
• 26:45
  Rallying.
• 26:45
  Because this is all in the wake of Le Mans and the incidents at Le Mans and people would sort of shied away from motorsport programs, hadn't they?
• 26:50
  They shied away from that, yeah.
• 26:51
  Yes, yes.
• 26:52
  Mm.
• 26:53
  I think Brock stopped it in the end in hindsight, you know, because when I say that... Mm.
• 26:59
  When he left the team in 74, 75, right, and the gowned Hinddorf car, Harry was still feeding bits to the rock, you know.
• 27:11
  Okay.
• 27:13
  And then Tatsan, for Christ's sake, Harry, what are you doing?
• 27:15
  You know, we're trying to win the thing and here you are, giving all the bloody bits.
• 27:18
  Supporting.
• 27:19
  Supporting, right.
• 27:22
  And that year, I mean, we had a problem, that was all, but...
• 27:27
  In hindsight, when he won, Bagshaw and them put on a really big thing with the dealers.
• 27:35
  Yes.
• 27:36
  And he drove the car in, you know, in the hall through the curtain or something, you know, and everyone stood up and cheered and everything else.
• 27:44
  Harry wasn't there, I wasn't there.
• 27:46
  Wow.
• 27:47
  No, no, it was just Brock and then Bagshaw and all that sort of stuff.
• 27:50
  Okay, okay.
• 27:51
  And I think that day the GM sort of realised that they should be in motor racing because Bagshaw always wanted it because it sold cars.
• 27:59
  Cars, yeah.
• 27:59
  They used to say when, went on Sunday, sell on Monday, you know, there's an old slogan.
• 28:05
  So, look, yeah, it was interesting, you know, and when you consider Peter, you know, when he won his first one in 73, you know, I say pinch me ties but not – you shouldn't say that.
• 28:19
  That story is in the book incidentally, I think, isn't it?
• 28:21
  It's in the book but what's actually – you know, like in those days, Harry and Andy had one set of wets and one said it would have been a me.
• 28:26
  He said to me, he said, what ones do you want?
• 28:28
  And I said, I want the wets, Harry.
• 28:29
  And I'm like, okay, okay.
• 28:30
  And in those days, you know, the boys just pushed the cars down to the grid.
• 28:34
  You went to the bathroom or something, didn't you, woman?
• 28:36
  You come back and when you came back it was...
• 28:38
  The cars are on the grid.
• 28:39
  There's no warm-up laps.
• 28:40
  Nothing, you know, off you go.
• 28:43
  Anyway, I'll get there on it.
• 28:46
  Jesus, Harry, I said, I wanted the bloody wets on my car.
• 28:49
  He said, don't worry, cock, this rain won't last.
• 28:53
  Well, he was right, but neither did I. I mean, I was on the wrong tyres at the time and I was locking up brakes and going anywhere and everywhere and I was surviving, but Jesus, probably if I could have done another lap I might have been okay.
• 29:07
  But anyway, and as it turned out, you know, it just...
• 29:11
  Went wide coming through one of the fast corners at the top of the hill and went up the bank and on its roof.
• 29:18
  You put your foot on the brake and it's not stopping because the wheels are up there.
• 29:21
  Yeah, yeah, gotcha, gotcha.
• 29:23
  Then another one and a half with Pike, you know, to the infields and there it stayed until the end of the race and then the tow truck driver came and picked up by the roof and did more damage than what I did to it.
• 29:33
  So anyhow, but that was history.
• 29:35
  What do you reckon was the secret to your success with both the manufacturers?
• 29:40
  Because it is such a unique thing.
• 29:43
  Oh, yeah, sure, sure.
• 29:44
  Well, I think in hindsight, I mean, the Holden one was easy because that was the first time we'd ever driven a competitive car at Bathurst, you know, and we won.
• 29:53
  Brock was the...
• 29:55
  And what was interesting with Desi West in those days, Desi had been there quite a few times with Holden.
• 30:01
  He was a Holden dealer.
• 30:03
  And he used to smoke.
• 30:06
  And he said to me, I said, oh, this race is getting so professional.
• 30:09
  I'm having trouble having a cigarette on the way around.
• 30:13
  I said, why did he... Because we had patients...
• 30:15
  While he's driving.
• 30:15
  Yeah, well, he said... Because they had a cigarette lighter in the car, so...
• 30:21
  So he'd light up and he'd smoke them.
• 30:24
  And when he came past the pitch, he'd have to hold it down or something.
• 30:29
  I mean, then you'd get John French or something, you used to have a sandwich in the middle of a Dick's car or something, that other thing, you know, so you'd have a nibble on the way around.
• 30:37
  Awesome.
• 30:37
  Yeah, look, it was different times, you know, and it was easier.
• 30:41
  I mean, when you consider we were doing under three minutes for just sort of thing, you know.
• 30:44
  Yep.
• 30:45
  Now the boys are nearly doing under two minutes.
• 30:47
  Two minutes, I know.
• 30:48
  Crazy.
• 30:48
  It is.
• 30:49
  It's just, but anyway, that was the thing, wasn't it?
• 30:52
  But, you know, I enjoyed it.
• 30:54
  It was... Good.
• 30:57
  I probably, you know, if someone said to you, what would you do between rally and racing if you only could do one, you know, I said, oh, you'd probably have to go around the racing because it was much easier.
• 31:07
  Like, you know, you just turn up at the track and you do five laps or something and go home or whatever.
• 31:11
  But you had a lot of love for rallying though, didn't you?
• 31:13
  Oh, absolutely.
• 31:14
  When you've broken down the middle of the...
• 31:15
  The side of the road, middle of the night, whatever.
• 31:18
  Pulling reins.
• 31:20
  Mud up to your head.
• 31:22
  It's not as glamorous then, Colin, is it?
• 31:23
  What are we doing here?
• 31:26
  You wouldn't be doing this unless you'd been shot at or something, like in the war.
• 31:29
  I mean, look, it was – but you're right.
• 31:32
  Look, it was all part of it.
• 31:35
  People say, well, how do you take the difference between rallying and racing?
• 31:37
  You don't.
• 31:38
  I mean, even the guys overseas now, some of the events are all tarmac, but then they build a tarmac car for it.
• 31:45
  The bigger brakes on it and lower it and bigger tyres and all that sort of stuff.
• 31:49
  And if it's a dirt one, well, they're a bit higher and so on and so on.
• 31:52
  And there's no real difference, really.
• 31:54
  I mean, Jim Richards was terrific at doing both, you know.
• 31:56
  Yep.
• 31:57
  I mean, Brock was okay at doing both too.
• 32:00
  Harry kept him out at first because he thought it was a bit dangerous for him.
• 32:03
  Mm-hmm.
• 32:03
  You know, I mean, and likewise, there's lots of people, you know, that can do either.
• 32:08
  KB was fine.
• 32:20
  What about the car over our shoulder here?
• 32:22
  There's a beautiful photo.
• 32:23
  You know, people will fondly remember 77.
• 32:26
  Again, I draw people to the book because all these years on you have, with the benefit of time, maybe a new take on it.
• 32:34
  So I'd rather let people read that.
• 32:36
  Yeah, sure.
• 32:36
  I'm more intrigued about the car and what it was like and perhaps your memory of that season.
• 32:42
  As I said, it was when Moffat asked me, you know, to go and he paid me 25 grand as well, you know, and you say, is it on, you know, really that much?
• 32:53
  That was a lot in those days.
• 32:54
  Yeah, hell yeah.
• 32:55
  When I say a lot, you know, people say, have that all?
• 32:58
  You say, well, look, the first house we bought, nine of silver, we only paid 23 grand for something.
• 33:02
  So it's all relevant.
• 33:03
  The kids might get a million bucks a day, but you can't buy a house in other silver from you.
• 33:06
  Yeah, exactly, exactly.
• 33:07
  In hindsight, yeah.
• 33:08
  But look, yeah.
• 33:10
  They, the first race we had was Sandown, you know, before we went into the season.
• 33:16
  And I was on pole and blitzed them, you know, in it.
• 33:18
  And I thought, gee, how good is this?
• 33:20
  And it was a good car.
• 33:21
  Yep.
• 33:22
  Carol Smith came out from America.
• 33:23
  Yes.
• 33:24
  You know, and sort of engineered the car.
• 33:26
  And what was nice with Carol, if we went testing, we had a program set out that what we're going to do.
• 33:33
  Gotcha.
• 33:34
  And we followed the program.
• 33:35
  Mm-hmm.
• 33:36
  With Harry, you go there and, what do we do, Harry?
• 33:39
  Oh, put some springs in it or something like that.
• 33:42
  We'll just try some springs.
• 33:42
  It was more structured, more like pro racer.
• 33:45
  Oh, absolutely more structured.
• 33:46
  It was a more structured system, you know.
• 33:48
  It was an American system, I suppose, when you think about it, you know.
• 33:51
  Because he was involved with, you know, the cars that were on and things, you know, the GT40s and what have you.
• 33:57
  So it comes from, and look, even today the guys are more structured, you know.
• 34:02
  Yes, yes.
• 34:03
  You don't just turn up and think...
• 34:05
  What are we going to do here?
• 34:06
  We do.
• 34:06
  Can you talk in it or something?
• 34:07
  Exactly, exactly.
• 34:08
  Anyway, it doesn't matter.
• 34:09
  But look, and I got on very well with Carol.
• 34:13
  He was a terrific guy, you know.
• 34:16
  He's recently passed away, of course.
• 34:18
  Not recent, you know, back then.
• 34:20
  But he...
• 34:23
  The cars, I guess, were always, I mean, I had a, well, initially, the first couple of races, I had a flat tyre at Amarou.
• 34:33
  Amarou.
• 34:33
  Orham Park, it might have been.
• 34:35
  Orham Park, okay.
• 34:36
  Orham Park.
• 34:37
  Yeah, yeah.
• 34:37
  So I finished, say, sixth or something that day.
• 34:40
  And that set the tone.
• 34:42
  Okay.
• 34:42
  For the rest of the championship.
• 34:44
  Okay.
• 34:44
  Because it was.
• 34:45
  You know, because Moffat won and then he won the next one.
• 34:47
  Mm-hmm.
• 34:48
  So then Carroll said, well, he'll got to come second.
• 34:51
  Okay.
• 34:52
  You know, because, which we did.
• 34:55
  Mm-hmm.
• 34:55
  And it was easy.
• 34:56
  You know, you just, you could go back and play with Johnny Harvey back here or something in a row for a while and then when you hit it, you just wave.
• 35:04
  Okay.
• 35:04
  I'll be going.
• 35:05
  Okay.
• 35:05
  Just to make sure.
• 35:08
  Cheeky, cheeky.
• 35:09
  No, no, but as I said, they were the dominant car that year.
• 35:13
  Next year, the A&X sort of came along and they gave it to us.
• 35:17
  Yeah, yeah.
• 35:19
  Can I come to a couple of other cars in your career?
• 35:22
  One that springs to mind is the Porsche.
• 35:25
  There's pictures of that in the book.
• 35:27
  Yeah.
• 35:27
  I mean, what was that thing like to drive and what was it like in the calibre of competition that came to it?
• 35:33
  It was Sandown, wasn't it, that you went to?
• 35:34
  Yeah, you mean the 956.
• 35:35
  Yes, 956, yeah.
• 35:37
  Bob Jane sort of hired.
• 35:39
  And so we had the long wheelbase version.
• 35:42
  Version.
• 35:43
  Right?
• 35:44
  Belloff and all the others had the short wheelbase.
• 35:46
  Short wheelbase, yeah.
• 35:47
  For Sandown because what they did with Sandown, they actually, the whole thing was a disaster.
• 35:53
  Because it was a round of the world championship, the track's supposed to be a certain distance.
• 35:56
  Length.
• 35:57
  They extended it, didn't they?
• 35:58
  You can actually find the connection road sort of still there now where it went, can't you?
• 36:02
  Yeah, but it was stupid because you went up the back straight and,
• 36:05
  which was in the fast corners down would have been good.
• 36:08
  Yeah.
• 36:09
  But he turned hard left, didn't he?
• 36:10
  And then you went down here and it was like being a go-kart track.
• 36:13
  Track, okay.
• 36:13
  And then you came back on.
• 36:14
  Just to make it the distance.
• 36:15
  Just to get the distance, then you came back on down the bottom corner and then you had the rest of it and you made decking.
• 36:21
  Yes.
• 36:21
  Anyway, then so we, yeah, I qualified the thing okay actually.
• 36:27
  I was surprised.
• 36:29
  And the other drive he had in those days was the Formula One drive,
• 36:34
  Wasn't Jonesy part of the other team as well?
• 36:36
  Oh, yeah, no, Jonesy was there, like Fern Ship and was there.
• 36:40
  Seth and Beloff, was it?
• 36:42
  No.
• 36:42
  Yeah, Beloff with, you know, I'll have to look at the list there.
• 36:47
  Only because it's a long time ago.
• 36:49
  Yep, yep, of course.
• 36:50
  But anyhow, I started the car and the boys that had the bonnet off and things beforehand, that's fine.
• 36:58
  I get down, start.
• 37:00
  Was it Derek Bell?
• 37:00
  No.
• 37:01
  Yeah, Derek Bell was there.
• 37:02
  Yep.
• 37:02
  Derek Bell was one of them and there would have been – Anyway, come back.
• 37:07
  Derek Bell might have been with Bell off actually.
• 37:09
  Anyway, it doesn't matter.
• 37:10
  The bottom's been off.
• 37:11
  Yeah, the body's been off.
• 37:12
  Then we go down to the start and I get in and everything else and go and they hadn't plugged the instruments in.
• 37:19
  Oh, so you've got no gauges is what you're saying?
• 37:21
  So there's no gauges, there's no boost, there's no nothing, right?
• 37:25
  So you're on pure feel.
• 37:26
  It's going, but you're pure feel, no gauges.
• 37:29
  Yeah, but I just thought, well...
• 37:32
  I knew what gear I was using all the corners, so that was it.
• 37:34
  You just went, mm-mm-mm-mm.
• 37:36
  Off you went.
• 37:36
  And I thought, well, not much point stopping.
• 37:39
  Yes.
• 37:39
  Just to plug it in.
• 37:40
  So until we stopped the first time when we had to, you know, and then Andrew probably got in or something.
• 37:45
  And fine, we finished up sixth, you know, which was one point in the World Championship.
• 37:52
  World Championship.
• 37:52
  So we said, oh, well, I've at least scored a point.
• 37:55
  Anyhow, yeah, I mean, it was the only time.
• 37:58
  And I guess –
• 38:01
  Anyway, I'll think of it later.
• 38:03
  But the long wheelbase was more or less designed for Le Mans, you know, because the faster.
• 38:08
  For that style of track, it's not ideal then, is it?
• 38:10
  Is that what you're saying?
• 38:11
  No, that's right.
• 38:12
  The Narrier wheel was much more wobbly, I think.
• 38:16
  So they had a benefit.
• 38:18
  Cool car to drive, though.
• 38:19
  Very cool they got that opportunity.
• 38:21
  You know, everyone said, what was the best car you'd driven?
• 38:23
  I said, it's always hard, isn't it?
• 38:25
  That would have, I mean, it had 700 horsepower, it was ground effects and all that sort of stuff, you know, so you would think.
• 38:31
  Yep.
• 38:31
  But then again, see, John had seven Formula One Motuses.
• 38:35
  Mm.
• 38:36
  And I drove the, you know, the 49er lot, which was the first of the DfV-powered cars.
• 38:41
  It was a Graham Hill car.
• 38:43
  And I still hold the record at Amaroo Park for the Group O, you know, lap record.
• 38:48
  Mm-hmm.
• 38:49
  Mm-hmm.
• 38:50
  We should probably never be beaten because, you know, it was quite funny because Smitty was driving it recently after me.
• 38:56
  And I looked up and I said, Smitty, you're never going to beat my time.
• 38:59
  You know, I realised I was only 50 when I did that.
• 39:02
  You're much older than that now.
• 39:05
  But John used to have a different philosophy.
• 39:07
  He said, oh, you know, he says...
• 39:09
  I like it when I'm not catching the guy in front and the guy behind's not catching me and I can just sit there and drive, you know.
• 39:15
  He said, like, when he qualified the car, he said, oh, I looked.
• 39:19
  I said, I was third on the grid.
• 39:20
  I said, I'm down.
• 39:21
  And I looked down.
• 39:23
  you had the record and you were 10 seconds that fast.
• 39:25
  And I was like, oh, yeah, but I probably had new time.
• 39:28
  He's a great fella.
• 39:30
  And all that sort of stuff.
• 39:31
  Anyway, but he also had the 73, I think it might be, the Mario Andretti Ground FX car as well, right?
• 39:39
  But still only with a three-litre, sorry, coverage climax.
• 39:43
  Yeah.
• 39:43
  motor, but that was too young usually to race, so we just practised sometimes with it.
• 39:49
  But the car that was interesting, and it sort of reminds me an awful lot of the old photos and 40 Joy of the Saw of the old race cars, say particularly in England, in these beautiful four-wheel drifts, you know.
• 40:01
  I drove the Lotus 16, which looked like a minivan.
• 40:05
  Well, it was a front-engine two-litre Climax car, right, with a sequential gearbox in those days.
• 40:11
  And they had these skinny tires and even the brakes there.
• 40:17
  Like, to stop the front wheels doing that when you put the brakes on, it was a sway bar that went back.
• 40:23
  Oh, wow.
• 40:23
  That was the only thing stopping it.
• 40:25
  Yeah, all that.
• 40:25
  Yeah.
• 40:27
  But we drove it, you know, at Oran Park and that, and it would just slide beautifully.
• 40:34
  And you could do these perfect drifts.
• 40:37
  Lovely.
• 40:37
  But it was at low speed in comparison.
• 40:39
  Yes, yes.
• 40:40
  And you sort of thought, oh, bugger me.
• 40:41
  All those guys I used to look at, you know, the Stirling Mosses and things and they were in these beautiful four-wheel drifts.
• 40:46
  Yeah, yeah.
• 40:48
  But when you've got no grip and everything else, it's just amazing how well you can drive.
• 40:55
  But see, throttle response, and this is where I think the rally comes into it, I just sort of think that the throttle response is the thing that really determines how much I have this here and that you've got most of the time, you know, and you do drive on the throttle.
• 41:07
  Which you clearly had a very deft touch for.
• 41:09
  You had a very, very… Absolutely.
• 41:11
  I think that's where when the big tyres and everything else in there came on, it wasn't so…
• 41:16
  important anyway.
• 41:18
  Couple to finish here.
• 41:19
  The Sierra.
• 41:20
  When you and I did a function together the other night, you turned up in a Caltech shirt and, man, it took me back.
• 41:25
  And I looked at it and I thought, is that just a copy of a team shirt from back in the day?
• 41:31
  And, in fact, it was an original.
• 41:33
  You've kept it original, haven't you?
• 41:34
  Yeah, it was.
• 41:34
  That's great.
• 41:35
  And that was the Sierra days, you know.
• 41:37
  Tell me about that car and what that – I mean, everyone sort of –
• 41:40
  Even for the Bathurst coverage at the weekend just gone, young Todd Hazelwood who races with Brodie Kostecki, they did a yarn with him with my colleague Chad Nailon where they drove a road car through town and both of them were just chaffed, you know, to get the chance to be in a road car like that.
• 41:56
  What was that thing like to race and running that team and so on?
• 41:59
  Yeah, look, the Sierras for us were a bit of a hand grenade, which –
• 42:05
  Which is annoying now because when I look back at it, we could get more than 500 horsepower easily.
• 42:14
  Yes.
• 42:14
  But once you got over 500 horsepower, we'd split the bores because we were all running the genuine block, right?
• 42:21
  And the genuine block was thick and then it narrowed down near the top in the water jacket so that the water could flow.
• 42:29
  And it was designed mainly for just road use.
• 42:32
  Edinburgh and them had blocks made which were solid all the way.
• 42:36
  Okay.
• 42:36
  And Dick was the only one that was getting them in Australia.
• 42:40
  All the cars now have got them.
• 42:42
  Yes.
• 42:42
  Like all the ones running around because the guy in England bought all the blocks and machined them and things now.
• 42:50
  And all my cars have got them, the red one, you know.
• 42:53
  Okay.
• 42:53
  Yeah.
• 42:54
  And the one that was just sold to New Zealand the other day.
• 42:56
  New Zealand, yeah.
• 42:57
  Yeah.
• 42:57
  So –
• 42:59
  You know, here we were, like all of us, Seaton and everything else, we're trying to stop these things blowing up and you're screwing them right through down to the water jackets at the bottom, you know, head duds and things.
• 43:12
  And the other guys were getting it a bit easier, sort of, you know.
• 43:15
  So it's a bit hard.
• 43:17
  But, look, they were the gun car.
• 43:19
  I still won two races with mine, you know, in the championship because we put bigger wheels on the front and bigger tyres, I mean, on the front.
• 43:29
  And...
• 43:34
  Alan Jones rode with me.
• 43:35
  You know, when we had the Sierra, we finished third at Bathurst.
• 43:40
  We just sort of had to compromise a bit on power.
• 43:42
  You know, that was all just to make sure we get through.
• 43:45
  Yep.
• 43:45
  Make them laugh.
• 43:46
  Then we, Wellington for Aikham and sake, you know, for the street race there and we finished fourth there.
• 43:53
  and all the Edinburgh cars were there and that type of thing.
• 43:56
  So, you know, and the Edinburgh cars were quick, you know, but then they got pinged at Bathurst, you know, for having their mud guards too farly modified and all that sort of stuff.
• 44:07
  But that wouldn't have been the only thing wrong with them.
• 44:09
  Okay, okay.
• 44:11
  To finish here, it's lovely to see you still at motor racing events now.
• 44:15
  You have a good friendship with Charlie Schwerkhold.
• 44:16
  You go and hang out in the garage and you were there at Bathurst for the weekend, weren't you?
• 44:20
  Sure.
• 44:20
  Yeah, I shouldn't spend much time this time.
• 44:22
  I seem to be a bit busy.
• 44:23
  Yeah, with the book, which is great, so.
• 44:25
  Oh, I know, yeah.
• 44:26
  I mean, look, yeah, I really appreciate Charlie's effort, you know.
• 44:31
  I mean, there's not many people that are like that.
• 44:34
  He's just an enthusiast, you know.
• 44:36
  Well, there are a couple of enthusiasts, I'm not saying, you know, and then others just do it for a business.
• 44:40
  Yes.
• 44:42
  And sometimes I say to, you know, Charlie, why do you keep doing it?
• 44:46
  And he said, oh, I just like doing it, you know.
• 44:48
  Mm-hmm.
• 44:48
  and he can afford it, I suppose.
• 44:53
  He's got a big mission ahead of him now.
• 44:55
  In closing, there are so many beautiful aspects of your career from what you did in rallying, contesting around Australia that you talked about, success in touring cars in different marks and connections with a factory team.
• 45:08
  We've talked open wheelers here as well and all sorts.
• 45:10
  Is there a moment for you that really stands out?
• 45:14
  I mean, here is this...
• 45:15
  young kid who didn't necessarily grow up in a motor racing family.
• 45:18
  You were very good at being hands-on with the motor car, which was a huge asset.
• 45:23
  And your...
• 45:24
  driving ability, your deft touch with the car was a signature thing for you.
• 45:28
  In the career which has spanned all of these decades and you've had a chance to reflect on it now in full tilt, is there a moment that you think is the peak moment for you, the thing that you're proudest of?
• 45:38
  What is that?
• 45:39
  Oh, look, I don't know in a lot of ways, you know.
• 45:42
  There's some races you win and you think that was terrific and then I remember losing one which is probably one I really enjoyed
• 45:49
  This intrigues me with racing drivers.
• 45:51
  Sometimes it's not always... No, no.
• 45:53
  You see, it was a funny thing.
• 45:54
  There was a 100-lapper at Oran Park, right?
• 45:56
  Mm-hmm.
• 45:57
  We had a rally to do Saturday up in Queensland, like all Saturday night.
• 46:01
  Yeah.
• 46:03
  So we did that.
• 46:05
  Then jumped on a plane, flew down to Sydney, went to Warren Park.
• 46:09
  Started from back of the grid because we hadn't qualified.
• 46:11
  Qualified, yeah.
• 46:12
  And it was 100-lap.
• 46:14
  And I took off in the X-year one and I was just knocking cars off every time I... Are you on South Circuit or full circuit here?
• 46:19
  Full circuit.
• 46:24
  Anyway.
• 46:24
  I'm not sure.
• 46:25
  It doesn't matter.
• 46:25
  But I was passing them all up over the dog leg down into the inter goal, right?
• 46:29
  Yep.
• 46:30
  And out.
• 46:30
  Yeah.
• 46:32
  By lap 30, I was in the lead.
• 46:34
  Amazing.
• 46:34
  And I thought, oh, shit, I've got 70 more laps to do.
• 46:39
  With no one to pass.
• 46:41
  Anyway, and off I went.
• 46:43
  And on the very last lap, you wouldn't believe it, coming out of Ennegal, the clutch facing came off, you know.
• 46:50
  Okay.
• 46:51
  And I couldn't get it to the finish line.
• 46:52
  I went up the hill, down the hill, and you got the Ennegal, and I wouldn't get up the hill.
• 46:56
  Game over.
• 46:57
  And Robin had already bought the, you know, we were probably going to get, you know, a thousand bucks for that race or something stupid and she'd already gone out and bought the, you know.
• 47:06
  Something for the house already.
• 47:07
  Something for the house already, you know.
• 47:09
  It never happened.
• 47:10
  But anyway, I mean, that was, it's like that a bit, you know.
• 47:13
  You sort of, it's like rallying sometimes.
• 47:18
  I remember one rally in particular.
• 47:21
  George Fury and I were at it.
• 47:22
  This is down in Bega, right?
• 47:24
  Down Bega way.
• 47:25
  Hammer and tongs.
• 47:27
  We get to the very last stage.
• 47:28
  It's a stage I know really well and it's about 80 kilometres long.
• 47:33
  So I say to John, John, tighten your seatbelt, you know.
• 47:37
  Here we go.
• 47:38
  Okay.
• 47:39
  So off we went.
• 47:41
  Full tilt.
• 47:42
  Anyway, so, and at one stage I had a bit of a slide and bumped the bank, but nothing, you know, just with the bank.
• 47:51
  Anyway, it was a fantastic drive, you know, get to the end.
• 47:55
  And in rallying, normally they should be two minutes behind you, you know, so then you can wait in control for a couple of minutes.
• 48:01
  And then gauge.
• 48:02
  Engage.
• 48:03
  But then sometimes they cheat a bit and get an extra minute or two.
• 48:07
  So we had to go before, you know, three minutes or something because, you know, as it turned out, he broke down about 10km to the stage.
• 48:18
  So you're going hammer and tong thinking he'll be doing the same and then you didn't need to.
• 48:22
  Didn't need to.
• 48:23
  But see, in those days, if you're in front, if you're behind, you would have seen it.
• 48:27
  But anyway, but no, but it was, and you sort of think, God, you know, you have some terrific drives like that, you know, and...
• 48:36
  And, well, you didn't have to, but you did.
• 48:40
  I think some of the ones we had, just before we go, and going back a little bit to our Evatlin, if I could remind you, we missed him about coming and driving for us, you know.
• 48:51
  The following year he came back after, you know, after we'd been to Canberra and that, and he came back and he said to me, I said, oh, Colin, I must have a left-hand drive car if you want me to drive 1010s.
• 49:01
  And he said, okay.
• 49:03
  So we can get all the bits for them.
• 49:04
  So, yeah, we get steering racks and things, so we do that.
• 49:08
  But you didn't have one here.
• 49:08
  You had to basically make it for them, didn't you?
• 49:10
  Or you converted.
• 49:11
  You had to convert a car for them, didn't you?
• 49:12
  No, it was my car.
• 49:13
  It was already built.
• 49:13
  We just had to put the bits in them.
• 49:16
  And anyway, and then, of course, when he comes, he sits in the car and he says, oh, it's very good, but I like my seat a bit tall, you know.
• 49:23
  Higher.
• 49:23
  I like sitting over the bottom, you know, so he can do that.
• 49:26
  Anyhow, and then he says, Dave Richards says, I want my seat back as far as possible.
• 49:32
  Possible, yeah.
• 49:33
  More towards the centre of the car, you know.
• 49:35
  And I thought, oh, no wonder they're well chairman.
• 49:39
  He's trying to offset Harry up there.
• 49:41
  There's a weight distribution.
• 49:42
  Yeah.
• 49:44
  But when I asked him, I said, what are you doing?
• 49:46
  He said, I just want to be as far away from the accident as possible as I had.
• 49:51
  Some great laughs in here, some wonderful memories.
• 49:54
  Congratulations on everything you've achieved.
• 49:56
  It's been wonderful.
• 49:57
  Just pick a couple of little things along the way.
• 50:00
  The full story is well worth everyone reading.
• 50:03
  And I love the fact that you've had the chance to kind of look back on all aspects of your career.
• 50:08
  I love that.
• 50:09
  Well done.
• 50:09
  Well done.
• 50:09
  Oh, absolutely.
• 50:10
  You know, I mean, we've tried to do books before, like everybody does, I suppose, you know, and normal books go, I did this in 1971.
• 50:18
  Like a timeline, yes.
• 50:20
  It gets as boring as batshit.
• 50:25
  So the way that John wanted to do it this way and I thought, well, that sounds much better, you know.
• 50:31
  And not only that, we bring the manufacturers into it as well.
• 50:34
  Lovely.
• 50:34
  You know, the people who were involved and all that sort of stuff.
• 50:37
  And even the Mitsubishi side of it, which was nice, you know, when you consider where it started from and where it is now as well, you know.
• 50:44
  And you still have a great friendship with Bob Riley to this day who was with us at the mountain and so on.
• 50:47
  Oh, absolutely, yeah.
• 50:48
  We'll see Bob.
• 50:49
  You know, Bob was sort of even worked for Frank Maddige and did a lot of design stuff on the 850s and so on.
• 50:55
  He's got a great story of his own, doesn't he?
• 50:57
  Oh, he does.
• 50:57
  You know, and there is that.
• 50:59
  I mean, I sort of still do a lot of talks to car clubs and things and I don't charge any money for talks.
• 51:06
  I think it's nice to put back into the sport what you've got out of it.
• 51:09
  You know, of course, there are only small clubs and things, like we're doing the Alpha Club, I think, tomorrow night.
• 51:16
  Nice.
• 51:19
  It's been a great ride.
• 51:20
  I've enjoyed every minute of it and I think that there's probably no other sport that I would have liked to have done that well, finished up as well as I did because golf was a possibility initially but I think that would have been a hard road really at the end of the day because golfers still play golf and when you have a good day and then you have a bad day and then you have a good day.
• 51:41
  Golfers actually should be going because it's sort of, no one, like most sports you get better at and then you platter, then you slide off the edge
• 51:49
  not go it's up and down like yeah but anyway but i love the fact that you're playing golf and enjoying it at this stage of life i love that you've encapsulated your um your wonderful career i'm very grateful for the time that you've given us today to talk a little bit about it congratulations colin thank you very much good thank you cheers