Latest / Real Investor Radio Podcast / Ep 54 | Authenticity in Real Estate: Lead Generation, Networking, and Hard Money with Tarry Summers
Transcript
- Craig Fuhr (00:12) that they'll have to watch. All right, we are recording. Welcome back to real investor radio. It's Craig fewer with Jack Bavier, Jack. Good to see you again. Tarry Summers (00:15) Yes. Yes. Mmm. Jack BeVier (00:25) Absolutely, absolutely. Great to see you, sir. Craig Fuhr (00:25) So we just had a great episode with Tarry Summers from Ohio home. He's in the Columbus market. I'd encourage everyone to go back and listen to that first episode first as we jump into the second one here, Tarry, welcome back to the show, man. Thank you so much for your time. Tarry Summers (00:38) Hey, thanks for having me. Craig Fuhr (00:40) Hey, can there you go? Give us two fingers up. Got to keep them there for a second. For those not watching, Tarry's in the fun room. Got balloons. Tarry Summers (00:47) Every time I do a peace sign balloons pop up, it's amazing. Craig Fuhr (00:50) This guy has such an aura that he just puts his fingers up and and and multi color balloons appear all around them. Tarry Summers (00:53) Hahaha I did just have my 38th birthday. So that maybe maybe it was for that. I don't know. Craig Fuhr (01:04) 38. Thanks. Thanks for keeping, thanks for keeping us in check with how old, how old I am. All right, man. Well, welcome back to the show. It's good to have you, Jack. We were, we ended the last episode. You wanted to talk about some of the really cool stuff that, that Tarry has done to grow his tribe on both social media with the podcasts and otherwise. So let's go ahead and jump in. Jack BeVier (01:04) Thanks. Tarry Summers (01:09) You don't feel it. Jack BeVier (01:25) Yeah, yeah. So I mean, something that I think that each business owner, regardless of what business you're in, needs to figure out is like their approach to lead generation and building, you know, building the business, building a network of people. And, you know, people have different personalities, they have different strengths, they have different weaknesses. And so I think that, you know, you need to find something that frankly that, you know, it sounds cheesy, but that works for you, right? That because... As we mentioned in that last episode, consistency is what matters, not necessarily like it's not that it's the fanciest content or whatever, or it's, it's, but it's that it's consistent. And so if I feel like people's lead generation and business development efforts, they often will like listen to a podcast or something. And someone will be like, you need to be on social media or you need to be sending letters or you need to send out a newsletter with high quality content or whatever. Right. Like, and they'll, and. And they'll be like, and that's the secret, right? Like that's the secret sauce right there is because I do this strategy and I completely disagree. I don't care what your strategy is. Frankly, if you do it every day, it'll eventually be successful. And so as a result of that, you need to find something that your personality is going to be willing to do every day. Right. If you if you are an introverted person and you're like, hey, you know what networking events are the thing for me, you're going to fail. right, because you don't like to go to networking events. You know, so I think that finding that right fit is really important. And something that I've always been like, really excited to talk to Tarry about is that his personality is very different than mine. And he has a completely different set of tools that he uses. But he exercises those tools with consistency, and it works for him. And I wanted to I wanted to tell you, if you I wanted to dig into the things that you've done to build your network and that those things that you've done with consistency over time and just what your approach has been. Tarry Summers (03:26) Yeah, man. So number one, this took me a long time to get the hell out, get the hell over. But like, we're all different. I mean, every time we hang out, Jack, we talk for hours, man, you know, just because we are different, right? But like, whoever you are, just be you, you know, like Alex Morimose, okay, is probably the driest dude on planet Earth. But people love him. I mean, I love it, you know, but like, everything he says is factual. And you know, just, but he's dry as hell. I don't know. He's like, hanging out in real life, but. Whoever it is that you are like be you like if you love nerding out on data dude nerd out on data You know if you love nerding out on you know What's my response rate on the on this direct mail piece? And I'm gonna change it to a red card instead of the yellow card cool Then that's what you do if you love being out and about and networking with people and then do that I just have found it just do what you're great at and just make sure you surround yourself with other people that are quite frankly, better at the stuff that you suck at. And if you do that, then you're gonna have fun in your business, right? Which is, to me, that should be a core value. Like, you gotta have fun doing what you're doing, or else, why in the hell are you doing it? You're gonna make money because you're having fun, and you're gonna wanna work harder at it, too. So, for me, like, I'm not like on the guru train. I hate people that are trying to constantly pitch you this, and, hey, you gotta use my product and pitch you that. But one of the things I realized is if I can get a small tribe of people as I continue my journey in real estate that these are people that I know. I've trained them. I know that I can lend them money. I know I can JV on deals with them. I know that they're going to, you know, I'm going to be a big supporter of them. It's like the whole ecosystem, man. You have lenders, you've got the buy and hold, you've got flippers, you got wholesalers, and we all need each other in this ecosystem, man. So... Generally people start off wholesaling then they graduate and go into flipping then they want to start owning assets and then eventually you want to be like Jack and be a bank so But throughout that whole ecosystem, we all need each other right? So, you know whether You know you need deals cool. You need the wholesalers. Yes, you're Wholesaling deals you need to buy and hold guys, you know, if you're doing anything you need the lender the lenders you need great operators so I don't know, man. For me, it's like I'm trying to create this small ecosystem of people to where, you know, hey, you pay a small monthly fee, you join my community. I give you access to every document, every script, every phone call, anything I've ever done in business. You have it in a Dropbox folder, every lease, every document, everything. And then we're going to do a call every Wednesday. So every Wednesday at four o 'clock, we get on a call and every other week we do a community call. So we talk about what I call pains and gains, you know, because people need to share their wins. They don't feel like they're constantly being beat up. At the same time, you need to talk about, hey, this is where I suck right now. What about this? Should I do this? A lot of times it's quite frankly mindset issues and limiting beliefs like, man, I got these two deals, but I can't raise the money. I'm like, dude, I just introduced you to three different hard money partners. Well, I got to come up with a down payment. That's your mindset. How many people out there have 50 grand laying in an IRA account? Millions, I'm sure. So like. Yeah, a lot of it's limiting beliefs, but on that call, you know, we try to, we try to crush those. And then we, every other, every other call we bring on like a topic expert, you know, whether it's a 10 31 person, a lender, you know, whoever, man, whoever's, whoever's going to be most helpful for the group. And then these guys get access to me in, in real time. So there's a Facebook group that I put together where like, they're like, Hey, I'm thinking about this. Cool. And what that's done for me too is it's eliminated coffees, beers, dinners, lunches, all that BS that we get bombarded with. And I'm like, hey, cool, you're interested in real estate. Okay, great. Go ahead and join my community. Love to have you in there. And that kind of eliminates all that other nonsense that we all put up with because everyone wants to do coffees and lunches and all that stuff. So it helps kind of just, I don't know, minimize the BS too. That was a long winded of what I'm doing. Jack BeVier (07:45) I mean, that's super interesting to me. No, that's awesome, man. That's exactly what I was wanting to hear about. What's on? So like explaining the logistics of it, right? Like I'm a super details guy, obviously. So like mechanically, like how are you running that? Like, do you have someone helping you keep that organized? Is it are these webinars each week and you're sending out zoom invites and it's like a private link? How do you prepare the content? How much time does it take you to prepare for these meetings? Like what are the what are the mechanics of running? Craig Fuhr (07:48) That's fine. Jack BeVier (08:15) that style of group work or how does that work? Craig Fuhr (08:18) Can I, can right before you answer the question, you know, I've had quite a bit of, did a deep dive into the whole guru thing. And what I found is, is that I had a real tolerance. I had a lack of tolerance for people who said they were going to do stuff, tire kickers, newbies. And so I wonder what your philosophy is on, you know, that, that inner circle of folks that you want to have around you in this group as you answer Jack's question. Tarry Summers (08:46) Yeah, so I called it scalers only one because no one took the word scalar yet. Now it's like the most scales like the most overused word in space now. You got to scale, got to scale. But scaling means different things. Scaling could be scaling back to have a different lifestyle, which is what I'm currently doing. So I make that very, very clear. But I make it very clear, too. If you've done it, if you've done one or two deals, this is not the group for you. This is a group that if you've got. If you've got at least 10 deals under your belt and you want to go to 100 units and beyond, this is the group for you. Preparing. So what I do is I prepare like a month in advance. So on our topics, I'll figure out what the group needs as a whole. And then we'll do two topic calls on those certain things. So like tax time is always like, it's always tax talk. End of the year, always tax talk. You know, I feel like the guys are having management issues. We'll talk management. As far as preparation, I prepare what the calls are going to be about. And it's literally like a 10 minute thing beforehand, because all we're doing is, hey, this is what we're doing in our business. This is what has been successful for us. This is the way that we do it. This is the way that other people have been successful doing this. Let's talk management for a second. So the leasing part. We've tried Rently. There was another Rentbox Solution company. For us in Columbus, Ohio, it just doesn't work. We've got our guys in Phoenix. It works for them. It works out in that market. Here, it's like crickets. For us, we want our typical leasing time to be seven days or less. With those rent boxes, it was like 30 days. So we go through like, hey, this is what worked for us. This is how we're currently doing things. This is how our VA screens potential people. Here's our copy and paste responses on the leasing side. Take these, use them. So as far as preparation time, it doesn't... And I like it that way too, because I don't like to prepare a whole heck of a lot, because I want to talk about real shit that we're actually doing in our business. And the guys know that too, like I'll show them real numbers. This is how many leases we've done. This is gross profits. I have no problem sharing that stuff because it's authentic and it's real. Whereas a lot of other people, they've to be on this pedestal, especially in this educational space. You've got to be on this pedestal and everyone's got to, you know, people have to think that everything's hunky -dory in your business. I'm the polar opposite. I'm like, hey, dude, this is where we shit the bed last month. Don't run into this mistake. You know, we tried this mentioning program. It didn't work. Or, you know, hey, we were trying to flip in this neighborhood. This is this is where we got our ass kicked. But I think talking more like that and actually sharing real stuff, I just think it's important. I think there I think that I think more people should do that. Many people don't. Craig Fuhr (11:36) Do you find that one of the things that I always had an issue with was my inherent desire to, I guess, please everybody that was in the group and sort of guide conversation. You know, do you find that it's a free flowing conversation where you get really good info from those from the others on the call, or is it mostly just you sharing information that they consume? Jack BeVier (11:37) Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Tarry Summers (11:49) Mm -mm. Jack BeVier (11:59) I'm going to leave that for the next couple of minutes. I'm to leave I'm leave it for the next I'm I'm I'm going to leave it for the next couple of minutes. I'm going to leave it for the next couple of minutes. I'm going to leave it for the next couple of minutes. I'm going to leave it for the next couple of minutes. I'm going to leave it for the next couple of minutes. I'm going to leave it for the next couple of minutes. I'm going to leave it for the next couple of minutes. I'm going to leave it for the next couple of minutes. I'm going to leave it for the next couple of minutes. I'm going to leave it for the next couple of minutes. I'm going to leave it for the next couple of minutes. I'm going Tarry Summers (12:06) Yeah, so every other call, like our community calls, which is every other week. Yeah, I mean, it's just, it's back and forth. It's talking and I just, I'm there more so of a guide. And then when I feel like the calls and this, this took me a while to try to understand too. When, cause you always have like that one person too, that's like super negative and then you got to bring it back and then talk about mindset. You're like, listen, man, you know, I know you're not raising a lot of money right now, but Hey, this is, this is why we come to these calls and you got to like bring it back. Jack BeVier (12:23) Yes. Tarry Summers (12:35) and kind of center the call a little bit. And it's a skill set for sure. It took me a long time to kind of, I don't know, be somewhat decent at it. Because you don't want one person running your call every time. And just like asking every question and all that stuff. So. Craig Fuhr (12:49) But like one of the reasons, one of the reasons why we do this podcast is so we can jump on and really learn from the guests who's on here. You know, you know, I'm learning Jack, Jack's already learned quite a bit, but, you know what I mean? Like it, the whole point of it is, is so, so that we can learn from guys like you. And, and even if I jump on a call with guys that own 10 properties and they're experiencing problems that, you know, maybe I'm beyond, Jack BeVier (12:54) Thank you. None of you. That's the point. We're not going to able to do that. Craig Fuhr (13:16) it's good to get back to hearing those types of things, just to sharpen your your pencil as well, you know. Tarry Summers (13:23) For sure. And dude, that's why we do. So the other thing I do is directly after that, I run my podcast. So from like five o 'clock to whenever, however long it lasts. And I try to double up. So whatever guests we're bringing on, I'll try to have them double up and be a part of that call if I can, or if it's relevant. Cause then I get to learn about that person, what's going on in their business. They can speak to the group. They can share with it, what's going well with them. But yeah, I mean, the other, the other cool part about it too is I think sometimes we forget. Jack BeVier (13:48) Thanks for watching! Tarry Summers (13:53) what's really going on in the market like Jack with RIR. Every time I come, we're just literally like focusing on like the weeds of the business, what's really going on in the ground level. And unless you have those guys that are only doing two to 10 deals, maybe you just get so up in the clouds that you forget like, man, this is what they're experiencing here. This is how wholesalers are feeling. This is the vibe. I mean, we talk about that a lot in our roundtable. I think it's vital, man. You should grab it. Jack BeVier (14:23) How do you attack accountability? Or do you? If someone just keeps showing up every month and isn't really making progress, is that a problem? Or do you try to push people forward? Tarry Summers (14:38) Yes, it's something I should definitely do a better job of, but my job's not to be a real estate Nazi either. Yeah, but sometimes you have to be bad. We got one guy, for instance, that every call, he just he cannot keep his virtual assistants to save his life. And my VA is just so bad, I just want to be like, dude, you just got to be more of a person. Like, you know, Jack BeVier (14:44) your mother, dad, you know, like, you know. Tarry Summers (15:06) These are people too, you can't treat them like robots, like, just be a human, like, and they so bad one night, and so you have to like give shit in like a, in like a shit talking friend kind of way. You're like, bro, like, dude, they're people too, bro, just cause they're in the Philippines don't mean they ain't people. Okay. They're actually better than you. Wink, wink. So you gotta, I don't know, you gotta like talk shit in your own way. Jack BeVier (15:30) You Craig Fuhr (15:32) My father used to call it hugging and hitting Jack. He would hug me but hit me at the same time. You know, that's it. Yeah. Tarry Summers (15:38) Yeah, I should do a much better job of accountability, but you know, I Yeah, I should I definitely should and that's something we should probably actually now we're talking about it That's something I'm gonna add in Jack BeVier (15:51) Yeah, I don't know. I mean, get different perspective, if you have different perspectives on it. Like Fred, Craig and I, Craig and I, Craig and I did a year whatever this was years ago, seven, eight years ago. We were just friends and we were like, Hey, let's let's you know, we should do like some coaching together. I was I felt like, Hey, I've got a ton. I feel like I've got a ton of knowledge. And like, I've learned that I've had gone through so much pain with Tarry Summers (15:51) Like that, like that. Yeah, maybe. Jack BeVier (16:18) screwing everything up, right? Like made every mistake in the book. Like, I've really felt like we had like a mental model that we could, you know, be like, Hey, just do it this way. And here's but we'll explain to you why it's this way. And like, you know, it had to be very market specific, right? And business model specific. But like, we could like teach people how to get through deals. And I was always just I was, you know, always a huge education guru hater. because I'm like, hey, they charge these people like $30 ,000 and then this people never do any deals. And like that just drives me crazy. Like it just, I don't know, for some reason that just really like rings my bell. And so I'm like, Hey, you know what? I'm going to prove that it can be done, right? Like I'm going to prove that you can, you can take people who don't, who have just basic knowledge and explain to them how to do it and why to do and why we're doing it that way. And then walk them through some deals and then they'll be able to do their own deals. And we, we set it up that it would be like, Hey, we guarantee that you're going to do three deals, right? Like that's how strongly we feel about our ability to show you how to execute this correctly. And. Craig Fuhr (17:20) And not only that, Jack, we were also, they got the money back that they gave us by doing those deals. So we would. So it was, I think it was like 20 grand. But but as we did those three deals, we gave them the 20 gram back and then split the profits after that. And so it was like, like, you're gonna learn, we're gonna walk you hand in hand through three flips. By the end of the third, you will have probably seen 99 % of the problems that you would see with a standard single family flip, and you'll be able to do number four on your own. And in the process of doing the three, you will have made a significant amount of money on the upside. So go ahead, Jack. Jack BeVier (17:58) Yes, like, you know, I was like, Hey, this is you know, this is gonna this is bulletproof, right? Like, this is this is the real way to do it. And then, Craig, I'll just speak for myself here. My experience was one, coaching is not congruent with my personality whatsoever. Like I should get I should nerd out on data and then get on a podcast and talk shop. That's probably a much better fit for my personality. And to the accountability thing that drove me fucking insane. Like, I just, I couldn't get Tarry Summers (18:06) you You Jack BeVier (18:28) I don't know. And this is probably a personal weakness statement, right? I couldn't get people to do what they needed to do, right? Like I, for some reason, could not like, you know, press the right buttons in the right order to explain to people how to take action and to, you know, to just do what they need to, you know, to be consistent about their lead generation to, you know, to put in the work, right? And I felt like coming out of that experience, so after what it was to like a year and a half, I kind of was like, the market got really busy. Things got a little scary from a market point of view. And I was like, Hey, Craig, dude, I need to tap out boss like and like here like here you go. Like you there they're in good hands and he wrote it out with everybody. And I learned you know, I learned a lot about myself through that process. I learned a lot about the nature of the nature of but also just the nature of other people right like that, that that people are different and that accountability is a really hard thing from a coaching. Tarry Summers (19:03) Yeah. Jack BeVier (19:25) perspective and a teaching perspective because people are so different. And at least for me, I was never I was never really able to like unlock that accountability, accountability aspect of it. So I'm not suggesting I wasn't suggesting that you need to have that as part of your program. I completely failed on that in that regard. Tarry Summers (19:42) Yeah, I feel like there's a couple things that came to mind as you were talking like at least for me like when I pay I start paying attention and You know someone that doesn't I've never understood why someone would go to fortune -builders or something and spend $35 ,000 and that would create pain for most people and then that pain of that $35 ,000 you would think would motivate them and a lot of people just doesn't and you know, but yet like my buddy Austin for instance, I Craig Fuhr (20:04) Yeah. Tarry Summers (20:11) I mean, he put his fortune builders on credit cards and he's like, shit, I got to pay this back. And that was like, he, and that motivated him. Right. but yeah, I mean, for, for a lot of people, man, unless there's like something you really, really, really want in life and you're, if you're really comfortable with doing what you're doing, like you're never going to be successful anyway. Like there's gotta be some level of discomfort in your life for you to want to pick up the phone and bang out this 10 ,000 calls or, you know, to, show up the things that you don't want to show up to or do things you don't necessarily want to do. And it's a very difficult thing when people are comfortable. Craig Fuhr (20:48) Yeah, agreed. Tarry Summers (20:48) I do. I want to rank people's necks sometime. I'm just like, dude, what are you, like, why are you not doing this? We talked about this last call, like just fucking pick up the phone, call everyone in your phone, text them that you have an investment opportunity. Do you know if anyone might be interested? That's all you got to do. Just send that text 50 times. Someone is going to loan you money. Craig Fuhr (21:06) It gets back. It gets back to my point of this, you know, your philosophy of who you want to work with. And I think one of the frustrations that Jack and me and even you, Tarry have found is that you want to kind of meet people where they are. But at the same time, they have to be in a place where you know that they're motivated, that they've been through the hurdles, you know, some of the hurdles, and you can take them to that next level. When you take someone who's just seen HDTV flip this house, flip that house, and they've got a nothing but a dream, and sort of none of the discipline or consistency that comes with having to fulfill a dream. It makes it it makes things really frustrating and difficult, especially for guys like Jack who have, you know, who have done it so many times for you who have done it so many times. And that's why I think like our IR works so well for you and Fred Jack, because you're surrounded by guys who not only you can, you can, you can help, but they also help you, you know, they're at a level where you're also really learning a lot of great shit from them. And I think Tarry, that's when, that's when what, like the kind of thing that you've put together really works is when you surround yourself with a group of people that ultimately you're going to be learning a lot from as well. Not, not some newbie with a dream, you know, no, no offense to the newbies out there. You got to start somewhere, but. Jack BeVier (22:05) Thank you. the next one. So, we'll talk about that in a minute. Tarry Summers (22:28) Yeah. Yeah, like I, you do, but like, it's just not, you know, I'm just, I'm not there, man. You know, it's just something that I like, I realized that like, yes, say no to some shit in life. And you just like, I'm at a point and I hate saying it like, not that I'm better or anything like that. It's just, I don't want to work with newbies. I, I don't want to have those newbie conversations. It's like, I want to talk about higher level shit, you know, stuff that is going to help me grow this, you know, people I know that I'm going to be able to pull along because how many people want to get started investing in real estate? There's a shit ton. The people that are actually going to rise to the top, there's a select few. And you got to protect your mindset too. If you're having newbie conversations all the time, you're going to get worn out. And if it doesn't stimulate you, it's going to make you worse, then you're going to be in a hole. I don't know. I'm a huge believer in protecting your mindset and just making sure you're having the right conversations, right people surrounding yourself. Jack BeVier (23:07) Thank you. Tarry Summers (23:28) I drink that Kool -Aid, dude. You have to do that. Craig Fuhr (23:30) Do you, is there any part of your vision for the group that you've built that ultimately there'll be a few guys who really rise to the top and that at some point you might be doing deals with them or is this really just an information sort of back and forth? Jack BeVier (23:34) Okay. and then something that we're not aware of. This is really tough. So, I think it's really interesting. Tarry Summers (23:47) Yeah, so like one of my goals, like I do transactional lending right now. And as I sell more and more real estate and become, I keep saying like, when I become more passive in this business, but I know there's no such thing as passive income in this business. It never is. But you know, I would like to be more in the lending space, for instance, you know, and if I can be, you know, a lender for these guys, if they come up with a cool JV opportunity, you know, or hey, you know, Whatever like you just never know what the opportunities are where the opportunities are going to come from but But if you have the right people around you like You know you know that you can immediately say yes or no because you're not vetting the person you're just vetting the deal Craig Fuhr (24:20) No you don't. Tarry Summers (24:30) So I just, I don't know, man. I just, I think it's about just make, trying to find ways that work for you to surround yourself with the right people, protect your time, condensed conversations. and then ultimately, you know, they're going to get a lot of value out of it. You get value out of it. It's just, it's what I found that works for me, man. It's not a large group. It's like 30 guys. I would like to get, I would like to get it to about 50 and probably keep it right there. And that way it doesn't get too big and out of control. Jack BeVier (24:59) Thank you. Tarry Summers (25:00) And dude, I'm an operator, man. I'm not a marketing guru. I don't want to be in the education space. I want to be in the real estate game. I want to be in the operator space. I like operating a business way more than I do this program. But I realized that scalers only, the community, is a big part of continuing to operate my business. Craig Fuhr (25:19) Good Jack. Jack BeVier (25:21) Like towards that end, something that I've always admired that you've I think you do exceptionally well is your social media presence, bringing authenticity to your social media presence and then being consistent about that. I think you guys do a phenomenal job of that. Like, how did you how did you, you know, like, walk me through, you know, walk me through the way you thought about like, is that is that is it is it just you like, hey, Tarry Summers (25:36) Thanks, brother. Jack BeVier (25:48) I'm just going to make a video and you like organically just do that. Or is there like intentionality behind it? Like, is there like a program you have in mind? Was there, you know, do you have a cadence that you're trying to set different kinds of content that you're trying to get out there? Or, you know, like, you know, or is it just haphazard and you just, you know, happen to be fucking awesome at it. Tarry Summers (26:02) See, I think I fucking suck. I think I'm terrible. This is so yesterday when we filmed. So I just got my Range Rover back from the shop, right? And we were going to go in the car and do filming in the car and I was going to talk and well, my Range Rover died because it's a freaking Range Rover in the middle of the street had to get it towed. And we're we're we're like, I'm like, and it's starting to rain. I'm like, you gotta be shitting me. So we went to some little dive bar, walked in. I'm like, dude, can you turn this music down? I will tip you extremely well, but take Leonard Skinner off the radio. I have to fill my content and I've got 47 minutes to fucking do it. So that's what we did. And so what my videographer does is she comes up with all these different topics and then uses AI and then our VA, she'll throw in more topics. And it's like a fucking dartboard, man. She's like, boom, what's your favorite restaurant in Columbus? And why is it your favorite? I'm like, all right, three, two, one, go. And I just talked about it. She's like, no, suck. Next. And then we next question. And if because if I tried to do it twice, it never comes out good. Like, I'm just going to keep stumbling, fumble, fucking my words. And so we just go to the next thing. Rappifier. Boom. What do you think about the current rate environment right now? OK, boom, here. Current rate environment. Boom, boom, boom. And if it sucks, we go on to the next thing. And we just do that for like an hour or two. And then all the contents in there, there's this huge smorgasbord of just shit. And then we use AI to figure out what are the best ones. And then out of those 20, we go and hand select like seven. And then that's content. Craig Fuhr (27:43) So they like, are they like two minute hits five minute hits? What do you do just as long as you want to? That's cool. Tarry Summers (27:46) 30 second hits, 30 second hits. That's it. And in that way, it's something I don't have to think about it. And I don't have to prepare. Like, and it's just, it comes, and it hopefully comes across authentic. Like I'm not polished at all. I don't, I hope I don't come across as polished. I just, I don't want to be something I'm not. And that was something I had to really think through. Cause you'll see guys like Hormozi and you know, Patrick that David, and they're just so articulate with their words and their mannerisms and all this shit. And you're like, Jack BeVier (27:53) What do mean you? Tarry Summers (28:15) Yeah, it's not me and every time I would try to be somebody else I would get super nervous, you know, I'm like crouching in and just like you just Jack BeVier (28:23) man, we're on such a roll there. Craig Fuhr (28:23) I know it's good. Jack BeVier (28:25) Fucking internet. Craig Fuhr (28:26) We'll just jump right back up. Jack BeVier (28:27) Yeah, always does. Craig Fuhr (28:28) It's all these goddamn emojis. That's so cool. Jack BeVier (28:30) Dude, I fucking love that, by the way. Craig Fuhr (28:31) You just approve another one. Jack BeVier (28:33) Fucking dude, I literally sent out fucking 20 quotes yesterday. Like it was insane Craig Fuhr (28:37) a great day. Great day. Tell you man that email, the one that went out, two of them amazing. Jack BeVier (28:45) Yeah. Craig Fuhr (28:46) Tarry, we'll just jump right back in where we were. You're looking much better now. Jack BeVier (28:48) Yeah, we got you. Craig Fuhr (28:50) Can't hear you though. Jack BeVier (28:51) audio's off. Craig Fuhr (28:52) Can't hear you. Jack BeVier (28:52) Take your time, man, no rush, no rush. It's all good. Craig Fuhr (28:55) Can you hear us? Can't hear you. Did you take your AirPods out? Cause you might still be connected. Jack BeVier (29:00) We'll be right back. Tarry Summers (29:00) Can you guys hear me now? Craig Fuhr (29:02) Yep, yep, yes. That's all right. Tarry Summers (29:04) Sorry about that guys. We were on a moment there too. Craig Fuhr (29:09) I'll tie it up with a bow for you. Tarry Summers (29:11) Okay. Is it possible to cut in, cut back in, or are you just going to tie it up with a nice red bow? Craig Fuhr (29:17) Yeah, we'll fix it. We'll fix that whole thing. It'll be seamless. But but I think the the point of that that we're getting at here, man, is that there's just like a real authenticity to what you do. You know, there's this there's this thing that I think some people have and some people don't, that they just shine who they are. They, they come through, truthful and authentic. And some people don't. And you just kind of got that shit built in. And I think that's what people see. Jack BeVier (29:28) Thank you. Thank you. Craig Fuhr (29:47) in the in the content that you provide, Jack, I was just I was just kind of saying that like, there's just a real authenticity and truth about some people that shine through and they don't even have they don't have to try. You know, just kind of who they are. And I think that's who Tarry's being and that's what that's what shines through on social media. Jack BeVier (29:49) Thank you. in the next class. Tarry Summers (30:02) I really... Jack BeVier (30:03) Yeah, so you got a, so you have a, when you say you use AI, is that to generate the question unless you use AI? Like, hey, give me a bunch of questions. Like, what do you, what is the AI prompt that you guys are using? Craig Fuhr (30:04) Hold on. Tarry Summers (30:09) Yeah, so... Uhhh, shit. I wanna say it's opus .ai. I think so. I don't like the look up stuff. It's annoying to me. So I just text my VA personal assistant. I'm like, hey, can you research AI? What AI is going to help you do your job? And then she'll figure it out. But no, I appreciate it, man. Truth be told, man, I wear a hat, not because I'm balding. I wear a hat because I get super freaking nervous. And if I find if I do get nervous and I'm taught like if especially when I'm around people are a lot smarter than me and that you know, they're I Don't know you just you put them on this pedestal you I get this sweat thing here and I'm like dude the hats only thing to cover it up And like I'm honest about it Like I was talking I was talking in York PA. There's a guy named Eric Brewer The Brewster or something like that. Not sure if you guys know him. Okay, cool. hella smart guy, right? Craig Fuhr (31:07) yeah. Jack BeVier (31:09) So yeah. Craig Fuhr (31:09) Yep. Yep. Tarry Summers (31:12) And I'm on stage and we're talking about hiring and you know, Eric is super like predictive index and you know, you got to run them through their disc profile and you got to do this. And I'm like, I'm on stage and I'm like, I'm just going to be honest guys. I don't do any of this shit. I do a small disc profile if I'm questionable about somebody. But if your initial gut feeling to somebody is bad, dude, that's not going to change. Like if your initial feeling is gut and your initial gut feeling is good. Okay. Then great. Alright, then what have you done? And then just ask them some questions. Are you going to be able to live being around this person for the next year or two years or however long their employment is? But anyways, I say I have to say this, like, you know, he had all this stuff like super dialed in. You know, my business is not like we have to be fluid. I need my leasing agent to be able to, you know, go and make a customer service call or I need her to be able to go pick stuff up in a property. Or choose a paint color like we have to have we got to be multi -dimensional especially in a small business. You can't just do You can't just do one thing, you know, but anyways, I was on stage talking And I just like I'm like guys. This is what I do things like I'm not Not standing up here and saying I got this all great elaborate system, but this is this is what works for me Craig Fuhr (32:34) Yeah. Regarding the hat, by the way, I sing in a band and I have since I was about 13 years old and same guys, 13 years stopped when I was about 26. And then we took a 30 year vacation, 30 years, almost to the day. And I got, I lost 90 pounds, got myself back in shape thinking, right. And I had this old stage monitor back in the day. It's a big speaker that points back at you so you can hear yourself. Somehow or other that thing got saved in a garage for 30 years. It was it sat in a garage. I picked it up from the keyboard player. You know, we're all in our we're all in our mid fifties now and we decide we're going to get back on stage. Well, this did. So we've all got those in -ear monitors that everybody uses now. But I use that god damn speaker that doesn't work, doesn't do a damn thing. It's a paperweight. And I use it to sit in front of me, Tarry, because it's a security blanket. It's like. Tarry Summers (33:10) Really. Jack BeVier (33:24) Peace out. Craig Fuhr (33:29) That's my little space between like me and the audience that is like, hey, this is my thing, this is your thing, and this is my little security, but they make fun of me. Everybody knows the damn thing is not doing a damn thing other than just sitting there for me being my hat on my head like you do, you know? So I get it. Tarry Summers (33:30) See you. Jack BeVier (33:35) Thank Tarry Summers (33:46) Yeah. Jack BeVier (33:47) Laughter Tarry Summers (33:48) You're saying we'll have to we'll have to jam out sometime now that I play I play drums in a band and it's like my little outlet. Craig Fuhr (33:49) true story. Jack BeVier (33:49) That's hilarious. Craig Fuhr (33:54) well, you have to give me your email. I'll send you over some files that you can listen to us in a garage. I think you'd be surprised at a bunch of 50 year old guys at how good we are, but I digress. Tarry Summers (33:59) Hell yeah man. Jack BeVier (34:03) They are they're pretty good. Tarry Summers (34:05) Dude, I love it, man. Craig Fuhr (34:09) So, so we got a few minutes left. It's, it's been awesome talking with you. One of the things that you said earlier that, that sort of constantly rings true with me is, is the capital game. It's, you know, you had that, you had the friends, family and fools when you started off, then you, then you met the community banks, not a whole lot of them around these days. And then, you know, but, but now you've scaled this thing. And so how are you finding capital? Jack BeVier (34:11) So we got to the end of this, but it's been awesome. And then you have to let them do the talking. No, no, no, no, no, no. You know, they're talking about the other things, maybe. So, sure. Tarry Summers (34:28) I am in fools. Craig Fuhr (34:35) What's your philosophy there on sort of making sure that you guys have the money to do the type of business that you want to do? Jack BeVier (34:38) So, yeah, we can change the way that's happening. To do it in different ways, and to do it in a shared way. Tarry Summers (34:43) For sure. Initially, I'd never had friends or family or fools. I wasn't even good enough to fool anybody in the beginning. Today, this is just the way that we do it. We raised a little bit, I probably out of the, I don't know, we probably got 24 million bucks in debt, total debt. Out of that, I would say 350 ,000 is investor debt. And that's it. I'm not a huge private money person. I want to go to the endless well. The other thing I hate about private money and I'm there's a place for all types of money, right? Like you need to raise private money. You need to have hard money relationships. You need to have a community banking relationships. You need to have like, I mean, I used to have a guy I would call and like, dude, I can't can't make payroll. I would have like thirty some thousand dollars show up in a check from some Russian guy's name. And I knew that I had to pay it back until Friday. So that's my probably my head is going to get chopped off. Craig Fuhr (35:12) Mm -hmm. Tarry Summers (35:40) But you need to have like all types of money, right? Like, but today, I'm a big proponent of hard money. Like I like the endless well, I like being able to go to a hard money lender and say, hey, got these five deals, this is the way we close it. It's not, I'm not trying to piecemeal every single deal. And if you're running with any type of volume, you gotta have the same lender. It's just way too difficult to try to manage all these different conversations. Craig Fuhr (36:03) It's not really. Yeah, it was more the equity side, right? And so if you're doing multiple deals a month, obviously, there's the down. And so I think most of the people listening, it's it doesn't come down to, hey, can I go down? You know, can I call Dominion and get a loan? It's what how am I working the equity on this fifth deal that I've got this month, because I don't have an endless bucket of capital. Jack BeVier (36:25) That's it. I hope you this video. Tarry Summers (36:27) Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I mean, you could use I've used credit cards before. You know, you can you can borrow it, put them in second position on the property. I don't recommend doing any more than two first and a second on a property. That's where people get in trouble. You're borrowing 10 from Fred. You're borrowing 15 from Mildred down the street. And then it's just it's too messy. Just find you know, find someone's got 50 grand is going to help you out with a deal or two. You could do that. For me now, like I said, I started sucking equity out of my properties and leaving it sit so that way I can just keep rotating capital. So that way if we need to fund something, it's just there. And I'm borrowing it at 6%. It's going into this deal. I know that I still own the stocks that are hopefully going up more than 6%. But that's just the way that I do it. Craig Fuhr (37:02) Mm -hmm. Keeping it simple. Tarry Summers (37:18) And then on the back on the yeah, keep it simple, man. And then on the back end, we used to use community. I was a huge proponent of community banks, especially when rates were in the fours. You know, because even on a 20 year at 4%, like that's great. You know, you're paying down a lot of debt. But now I'm doing all the S .C .R. stuff. I'm doing all 30 year interest only because it's the only way we can make cash flow numbers work. But I think I think the S .C .R. lenders are going to take out a lot of these banks because. Jack BeVier (37:39) It's probably not. It's probably not. Tarry Summers (37:47) These banks just can't compete. Jack BeVier (37:48) I'm really interested about that. Like the 30 year DSCR, you're doing interest only because it's the only way to make the DSCR really work, which I tend to agree with you with. But, but like, you know, but you're not making any progress right there, right? Like, so like, like, what's your concern that you're just treading water, right? Because you're not paying principal down even. So like, and if you know, what if rates don't come down, you're just sitting here treading water and working for the bank for the rest of your life, you know? Tarry Summers (37:54) Yup. Yeah. So for me personally, I don't plan on holding any of these assets for the rest of my life. I plan on selling these things off and I don't know. I have some 15 year debt. I've got some 20 year debt, a lot of it. Some on 25s and I've got some on 30 and I've got 30s with you guys. I think you guys did like 14 or 15 or so. And then, Jack BeVier (38:29) recycling. Tarry Summers (38:44) And I've got some 30 that are on interest only. So I would never tell anyone to go out and get all 30 -year interest only. I like having staggered debt because it forces you to... It kind of forces you to be... To make sure that you're making money on your properties and you're making cash flow. But at the same time, you don't want to drown yourself either. So I don't know. That's kind of my philosophy. Jack BeVier (39:04) Yes, something that I like didn't really didn't I didn't really think about the rental portfolio this way. The past, but I think that it's a fair way to think about it is like I always just like, you know, when I when I started in the career young, I was always just predisposed to like, hey, I'm going to hold this for a very, very long time, because I was young at the time. Right. So it's easy, easy, easy to say when you're in your 20s. But like if you're in your 40s or 50s, like a 30 year time frame is becomes less relevant. Tarry Summers (39:25) Yes, yes. Jack BeVier (39:32) Right? You're like, dude, you know, what, what am I going to do? Like, great. I'm going to do this so that I own, I'm sort of rich when I'm 82, who gives a fuck, right? Like, I'd like to spend some of that money between now and then. So like, but the idea of like, Hey, finding an off market deal so that where you're into it, into the property for less than it's worth, you think that it's going to continue to appreciate some, right? Like a little bit. And, you know, it ends up being like, kind of like, it's just like a sprinkler, like a store of wealth, right? Like where you think like, Tarry Summers (39:38) Yeah. Jack BeVier (40:00) Hey, I've got 50 grand in equity in this thing. I'm not going to get taxed on that 50 grand. That's awesome, right? I'm already 40 points ahead. And then, you know, versus flipping it. And then, you know, if it goes up to 3 % a year, and I hold it for seven years, great, you know, I get my I get to unlock that then $65 ,000 of value and only get taxed capital gains. Like, what's wrong with that? Like, there's nothing wrong. I don't know. There's nothing wrong with that. I think that's a great way to like, run a rental portfolio. And then like you said, like just kind of stagger stuff out, like you plan to harvest equity over time at capital gains rates. What's wrong with that? You know, I like that perspective. Tarry Summers (40:35) Yup. Nothing. The other thing, and this is just my personal opinion, one of the things I like doing is nerding out on the macro, the economy, the markets, all that stuff. But like, if you look across the world, or even look at our own country, LA, New York, San Francisco, like place, real estate is just permanently expensive. Like it is. Like it's permanently expensive. And, I'm seeing this happen right in front of my eyes here in Columbus. It's like, dude, these things are going to make no sense as cash flow properties because the equity is going to far outweigh any bit of cash flow I'm going to get out of these things. And so for me, I'm just always looking at what is the best return of this capital or this equity at all times. And if something appreciates to 300, 350 ,000, but my rent's two grand, I don't want to own that property if I got 100 grand. It makes no sense. Craig Fuhr (41:33) No, you just bought it. You literally just bought it at 350 without, if you don't sell it. Tarry Summers (41:36) My re - Yeah, like it just makes it makes no sense. So like if if I can do if I can make money elsewhere and make a higher return with less effort, why wouldn't I do that? So I don't know. It's just, I just. Craig Fuhr (41:51) Well, we got a couple of minutes left here. Go ahead. Tarry Summers (41:54) No, go ahead, man. Craig Fuhr (41:55) We got just a few minutes left here, man. And thank you for all your time today. Jackie, have anything else or you will just wrap it. Jack BeVier (42:03) No, dude, I'm good, man. Tarry, I really enjoyed the conversation. This is super fun. I always enjoy talking to you and I'm looking forward to seeing you. yeah. You're going down to Miami, right? We get I Tarry Summers (42:09) Yeah, man. Yeah, I'll see you for sure on Monday, but I might I'm trying to sneak down on Sunday. Craig Fuhr (42:17) had to jam that dagger had to jam the dagger in just a little bit further jack because I won't be on the Miami trip but as much as I'd like to be there you got you gentlemen have fun I'll be home working Jack BeVier (42:19) Sounds good. Tarry Summers (42:28) it Jack BeVier (42:29) So I'm happy to help you. Craig Fuhr (42:31) Tarry, if folks want to get in touch with you, learn more about scalers only. If they want to find you on social media, if they want to see what you're doing over at Ohio Home, how did they find you? How do they get in touch? Jack BeVier (42:34) Thanks for the invitation. Tarry Summers (42:43) Yeah, just it's Tarry with an A T -A -R -R -Y Summers. If you misspell it, you spelled it correctly. You can go to Tarry at Tarry sums on Instagram at Tarry Summers on Facebook. You can email me Tarry at Ohio home dot com, whatever your preference is. But make sure to follow me. If you DM me, I will DM you back. You got questions about real estate, whatever. I'm a pretty open book. So let me know. Craig Fuhr (43:11) Man, thank you for your time. Thank you for your truth and authenticity. Keep doing what you're doing, bro. It's been such a pleasure to talk with you. All right, everybody. That's this episode. We'll catch you on the next one. Real Investor Radio, we're out. Tarry Summers (43:17) I appreciate you guys. Right back at you. Jack BeVier (43:22) See you at the bar, buddy.