Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to the awesome Simon Moore about his choice of Terror of the Zygons (1/4)

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Talks to the awesome Simon Moore about his choice of Terror of the Zygons (1/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:23
  None. Hamster with a blump.
• 0:34
  Pen Knife for doing quicker, quicker, quicker.
• 0:39
  Welcome back to our Hamster with a Blump and Knife, the Doctor
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  Who Commentary podcast. I am here today with a gentleman
• 0:48
  that I don't think anybody of this audience will be a stranger
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  to. Mr. Simon Moore.
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  Hello. Hello, hello how are you doing?
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  Oh, I'm away. It's early for me.
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  It's late for you. It is late for me.
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  It's yes, it's evening, yes, the the, the, the perils of living
• 1:03
  on the other side of the world. But you know, we get by.
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  Now you are what I consider to be one of the alumni of the most
• 1:11
  prestigious Doctor Who podcast, because you appear frequently on
• 1:16
  flight for entirety. How did that come?
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  Back well I appear frequently but I'm a late Comer.
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  I I remember I I'm not I'm far from the original crowd but I
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  I've known the guys at FTE for, well, most of my adult life.
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  And so it was only natural that at some time that at some stage
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  we would, they would open up the the the thing and allow me to
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  express my displeasure and all the things that they've been
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  saying for the previous episodes but.
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  You know I. Love what?
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  My role is love. You for that.
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  Because I'll tell you what, right?
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  A lot of people come on to that show, and This is why I got in
• 1:49
  touch with you. I listen to Dark Water, and I'm
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  like, it's that dissenting voice because I'll tell you what, to
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  stand up to Nathan Botany and say, do you know what I think
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  you're wrong. It's it's a bold thing to do and
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  you do it well. Well, you know I have to fill
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  that role, so hopefully, hopefully it goes OK.
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  Well, I'm absolutely delighted you're here today.
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  Why don't you tell everybody what we're going to talk about?
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  Well, we're going to talk about a story which I absolutely love
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  and adore and have done so since I was a wee small thing and that
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  is Terror of the Zygons. And I don't want to make all
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  those British listeners of a certain era jealous.
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  But of course, you know, we used to have what what you might
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  describe as endless repeats in Australia, certainly when I was
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  growing up in the early 80s. And yes, exactly.
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  Thank you. But certainly two of the Zygons
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  was something that I will always look forward to every time we
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  came back round to basically the Tom Baker, the the Hinchcliffe
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  era basically. And this was a story which I
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  which which stood out as something that I absolutely love
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  and I I still think to this day as a piece of television.
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  It really stands up. CGI Shmi GI.
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  As far as I can say, it is, it is spectacular.
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  You know, I have heard that on good authority as well that they
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  are redoing the scarasound effects for the Blu-ray that's
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  going to come out. But you know I I I rather like
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  the stop motion animation in this.
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  Well it's not surprising that look I, I I have AI have a
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  troubled thing with the with the with the sort of the, the
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  updated effects. I mean I I think they're
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  interesting to do and I think well why not if you're going to
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  release it on blue DVD and Blu-ray and so on of course
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  you're going you're going to do that.
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  But it kind of jars for me with the with the original program
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  it's never quite never quite marries and so you know you know
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  you you smudge your eyes you you, you don't look at it too
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  closely and yeah OK it was done in 1975 but look how great it
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  was for that era for the fact that they did it on a
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  shoestring. And so I I think that the
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  efforts to update it, whilst well meaning I, I don't feel the
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  need to watch those versions. You and I were talking just a
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  little off mic about how there's a scene in this that is was
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  excised for the broadcast version and then it's wowed its
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  way back in for the DVD release and how jarring it is.
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  Well, that because it's so ingrained in your head, the the
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  order of the scenes and how these stories flow.
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  Like I I came to a lot of these hinge Cliff stories because they
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  came out on VHS. You know, the unedited versions
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  with no cliffhangers in them at all.
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  So now that I watch the most versions, yeah, they they were
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  brought out on VHS with no cliffhangers.
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  Loads of scenes taken out of them.
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  And those are the ones I watched 100 times when I was a kid.
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  So now when I watch the Blu-ray, what the hell is this
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  cliffhanger in the middle of this story?
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  It's. In the middle of this year, this
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  tense moment. Yes, exactly.
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  It is very strange. It's funny.
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  We didn't get, I mean we had a various times the ABC would show
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  them in all sorts of weird and wonderful ways.
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  But Tear of the Zygons for some reason never got that treatment.
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  It was always in episodes. It was more the kind of the
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  Graham Williams stuff that we we got to see in in subsequent
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  repeats as as Saturday afternoon omnibuses.
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  But so they're the ones that I kind of associate with not
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  having cliffhangers but it's so great to have the cliffhangers
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  in in this. It's it's just part of the part
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  of the story. Especially when they're this
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  good as well. Exactly 1.
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  We'll Get There. Well then, before we go into the
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  first episode, can I just ask you your thoughts on the Hinch
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  Clave era as a whole? Like, is this a favorite of
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  yours? It it is.
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  I mean look I I don't want to be certainly when I was a sort of
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  fan in the late 80s you know you try to sort of say well Hinch
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  Clave era was just a part of the the rest of the show and all
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  parts of the show have their merits and so on and so on and
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  yes obviously they do and and there are parts of all eras of
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  the program that I really love but it it has to be for me the
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  the the the the Pertwee era and the Hinchcliffe era are are
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  Doctor Who at its best it's at it's where everything is working
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  it's where I think everyone's taking it seriously.
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  I think we're comparatively speaking there is money.
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  There as much money as there as there ever was before kind of
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  you know inflation took off in the late 70s and and and all the
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  rest of it and before some of the excesses of the J&T year
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  kind of kind of came in. So this for me this year, these
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  three years and and season 13 as well.
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  I mean a lot of people kind of talk about season 13 is the
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  lesser of the three Hinchcliffe years but for me it is the
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  second best if not the best. There's so many parts of it that
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  I love this Seats of Doom, Pyramids of Mars, Android
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  Invasion, which I know doesn't get much love, but I absolutely
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  love that story. It is.
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  It's what I want Doctor Who to be.
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  And yes that's probably the 10 year old me saying it when I've,
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  you know we've just had season 17 shown for the first time and
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  then we go back to Arc and Space and and kind of keep going from
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  there. So I'm doing that direct
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  comparison, but but yeah, it it's it's just magical.
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  Android Invasion, you know, is my partner's favorite Doctor Who
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  story, and I have a great affection for it because the way
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  I romanced him was to take him to Didcot and have him tie me to
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  that thing in the middle of the village.
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  It means a great deal to me. Android Invasion.
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  It never used to, but it does. Now, yeah, I'm sure being tied
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  to that War Memorial had its own special has its own.
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  Place for you. But saying it's the favorite
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  story, it's probably going a little bit too far.
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  But. Oh Simon, the rest of them.
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  His other favourites are The Chase.
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  You know, you pick. A God.
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  Planet of the Daleks like he is a a singularly unique Doctor Who
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  fan and I love. Him for that.
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  Fair enough. He takes all sorts.
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  It it really does, Should we pop into episode one and see what
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  Terror Cycles has to offer us? I think we probably should.
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  I'll count as in then in 54321 you've done a commentary before.
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  I've never done a commentary before.
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  I'm a commentary virgin. Virgin Territory.
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  It is. I've never I've.
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  I've only talked about an episode after seeing it, not
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  whilst I'm I'm watching it, so. So forgive me for accidentally
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  sort of falling silent to watch this fantastic story.
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  I don't think that's gonna be a problem with you.
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  Do you know? But I mean these credits, I mean
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  these credits are part of what I was saying before about about
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  the the the classic nature of the classic show.
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  And I I I think that the the credits has always been
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  something that I've been disappointed by as a whole with
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  the new series generally speaking, which sounds strange
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  but you know that's me. But look at that model shot of
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  of the the opening it. I mean obviously it's a model
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  but it it looks so detailed. I mean there is a lot of love in
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  that model. Now probably, you know that they
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  had that model sort of sitting somewhere because they've got,
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  you know, in the BBC they had, you know, models of oil
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  refineries just just waiting to be not oil refineries, oil rigs
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  rather than waiting to be used for something.
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  But it's still pretty great. You've only got to compare it to
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  how the oil rig was shot in power of Kroll to see how badly
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  these things can go wrong and how expertly this is done in
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  this story. Absolutely.
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  Now, do you know who this bloke is?
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  Where? Where we've seen this bloke
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  before by he's he's Osgood in the Seeds of Death.
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  Is he? He is so the guy who gets killed
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  in episode one, but it's. I'm terrible at this case.
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  I didn't see it, but I didn't see that till years later
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  because of the fact that, you know, that wasn't.
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  We never got the the Pertwee's the the sorry the the Troutons
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  and Hartwells and so on during the repeats the endless repeats
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  that we got. So I it was only subsequently
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  that that that I recognized him in seeds and went Oh my God
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  that's the same bloke anyway even that just even that
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  destruction of the of the oh Rick now look at this see this
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  is where it's supposed to start. This is supposed to be where you
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  first see the doctor and and Sarah and Harry and these are
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  the this is the pinnacle team For me it was always the doctor
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  Sarah and Harry that I that I loved going back and and saying
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  and it's just so sweet the way you know Harry's wearing the
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  doctor's scarf. They're striding across the
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  mall. And don't you think Elizabeth
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  Sladen's outfit in this story is just probably one of her best?
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  Gorgeous jumpsuit. Yeah.
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  And the hat. I just like the fact that
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  they're all wearing parts of his costume.
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  They feel like the best of friends.
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  Oh. Yes, she's.
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  Yeah, exactly. And the music in this scene as
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  well, it eases you in beautifully.
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  Yes, yes, yes, the music. And that's the music.
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  I mean, much as I, you know, I have every respect, respect for
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  Dudley Simpson and and back in the days of conventions, I I did
• 10:14
  interview him and you know, as a musician I have every respect
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  for him. Likewise, similarly for Murray
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  Gold. But I think like Murray Gold,
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  the issue with Dudley is that it's all Dudley.
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  Like, there's so much Dudley Simpson that I think he's
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  overused and by the time you get to the Williams era it starts to
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  get stale and maybe not quite what the the the visuals are
• 10:34
  demanding and isn't John Woodruff fantastic there, just
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  in that one line he he gets across his contempt for.
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  He tells what? I don't know if you watched the
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  documentary before watching this, but he tells some
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  wonderful stories about this. He goes out.
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  Douglas Canfield phoned him up and said right, he goes, I've
• 10:50
  got a role for you. You're going to play this big
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  sucky alien and you're going to play a Duke and you're going to
• 10:54
  play the alien playing the Duke. And he said, Ducky, I'll do
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  anything for you. Anything.
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  Fantastic. You think they could possibly be
• 11:02
  in Scotland, given that the first scene featured a man
• 11:05
  saying Willie and could, you know, send over a few wee
• 11:08
  haggis? I mean, they're short handed.
• 11:13
  They're short handed, this kind of racial stereotyping or or
• 11:17
  whatever the right expression. Say that Brigadier looks mighty
• 11:21
  fine in a kilt, though we haven't seen it yet, but we're
• 11:23
  about to we. Haven't seen it yet, but it's
• 11:26
  funny because I mean I know that they did each other Pertwee's
• 11:28
  like before I I I started watching Doctor Who and then up
• 11:31
  subsequently like they went back and showed all the Pertwee's
• 11:34
  through. But for me it was mainly the
• 11:36
  Hinchcliffe period, like in that kind of formative years, if I
• 11:38
  can describe that. So this older Brigadier, the
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  older Brigadier that you see in Robot, and this is the one that
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  I remember. So he always feels like, looks
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  like he's a child when when I see him now in in the Pertwee
• 11:51
  era. Likewise Benton.
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  I think Janet Field and felt the same way when when she was
• 11:56
  watching season 8 on the Blu Rays or behind the sofa and she
• 11:59
  went look at Nick, he looks like a baby, like bless him.
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  Yes. In fact, he looks great in that
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  Tamo Shatner as well, doesn't he?
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  Yeah he does. But look at that lens.
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  Look at the fact that like, I mean Douglas Canfield is such a
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  strong director. I mean look at the fact that
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  he's that that's shot on a long lens.
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  And so everyone there's, there's there's there's a narrow depth
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  of field and so it looks like someone's they're being looked
• 12:21
  they're being viewed from afar and I think a lesser director it
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  would just be a plain shot and it's it's those kind of things
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  which help Createspace. In.
• 12:30
  In in direction. Just as well.
• 12:33
  Just that whole thing of looking out of a window like that and
• 12:38
  then cutting into the set like you don't even get that level of
• 12:41
  thought usually in some Doctor Who stories.
• 12:43
  No, no. But but again, I mean, you've
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  got the studio and you've got the location and they're shot
• 12:47
  weeks apart and shot huge, vast distances apart.
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  And yet marrying it together in that way I think takes takes
• 12:57
  care. Whilst we're talking about
• 12:59
  production detail, I'm going to mention something I've got a bit
• 13:02
  of a fetish with with Doctor Who because you don't see him very
• 13:04
  often and that is that set has a ceiling, OK?
• 13:08
  And you don't. So it does.
• 13:09
  So rarely see a ceiling in Doctor Who and the designer says
• 13:14
  he had a massive battle with the lighting technician.
• 13:16
  It was like, you've got to take the ceiling out.
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  I can't like the scene, he goes. Well, I don't care.
• 13:20
  We're for once, we're going to not have a free world, you know,
• 13:22
  theatre set for Doctor Who. We're going to actually make it
• 13:25
  feel as if we're genuinely inside this in.
• 13:27
  Yeah, it does. And there's lots of detail in
• 13:30
  the set there, just just the the bar behind them.
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  It feels like a lived in space. A lived in space.
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  But I'm just thinking about it then when as you were saying
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  that how small that space actually is like that is a very
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  that is probably about 3 meters by two meters a bit more but not
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  not no more than that. It it is quite a tiny space And
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  yes, you write the ceiling or at least a little bit of ceiling
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  there and it because of course all those pubs, all those, you
• 13:55
  know, all the buildings in Britain and in Scotland, they're
• 13:58
  all you know. There's one down the road.
• 14:00
  The ceilings, yeah, the ceilings are, are are quite low.
• 14:04
  And so in some respects it would look weird if you didn't see the
• 14:06
  ceiling in the shot. And look at that.
• 14:08
  Yes, you can see it above the boy's head sign.
• 14:10
  Oh boy, these seats on the Another thing Doctor Who doesn't
• 14:13
  do enough is go to the beach. I wouldn't.
• 14:19
  Call this a beach I'd call. This a look we're not having,
• 14:21
  we're not having the UK, Australia divide on beaches.
• 14:24
  On this OK. I've tempted enough Australians
• 14:28
  to this to to ease for them, but those, I mean we're going to cut
• 14:34
  back to it quite a bit in the in the next couple of scenes, but
• 14:37
  the way those scenes are shot, they would not look out of place
• 14:40
  in a Hammer movie in the 70s like a a bigger budget Hammer
• 14:44
  movie. Yeah, exactly.
• 14:47
  But you see how they're all taking it completely seriously.
• 14:50
  Like, you know, even though they're talking nonsense,
• 14:52
  they're all performing it as if it's as if it's high drama, as
• 14:56
  if it's like, you know, prestigious BBC drama and go and
• 14:59
  go back to what you were saying at the set.
• 15:00
  I mean, This is why I think doing these kind of stories in
• 15:04
  these kind of settings is so perfect for the program with
• 15:08
  that limited budget because there'd have been so much of
• 15:10
  this that just comes from stock. So much of the set is just
• 15:13
  available to be used, whether it's filing cabinets here in
• 15:15
  this scene now with Huckle or the office, the, you know, the
• 15:18
  pub, all the all the things that make the pub look so lived in as
• 15:22
  you were talking about before and and and you know real is
• 15:26
  because of the fact that they've got that set from something
• 15:29
  else. God knows what, but it's there.
• 15:31
  I always feel like 72 does Cosy well, like like What's The Faces
• 15:36
  Cottage in Stones of Blood and things like that.
• 15:38
  They do those sort of domestic settings really well, yeah.
• 15:41
  Yeah lots of clutter and and and lived in yeah but but look at
• 15:46
  this I mean this sequence is huckle's office and and that's
• 15:48
  shot just then with Harry and Sarah and and walking off.
• 15:51
  Everything's so tight. There are no, I haven't.
• 15:53
  I haven't really seen a proper wide shot yet, and I don't think
• 15:56
  that's necessarily because the set's microscopic.
• 15:58
  I think it's just partly because Douglas Canfield just knows.
• 16:01
  For the drama. Exactly.
• 16:03
  I've often said that Doctor Who, the good Doctor Who directors
• 16:07
  back in the classic era, the the better directors knew how to
• 16:11
  shoot, how to shoot it, and and Douglas Canfield is shooting it
• 16:15
  like it's a traditional drama rather than trying to shoot it
• 16:18
  like it's a science fiction program.
• 16:20
  Yeah. I mean it helps obviously the
• 16:22
  fact that it's in an oil refinery ordering and you know
• 16:24
  offices and things. And then you marry that with
• 16:27
  Robert Banks Stewart, who is quoted as saying he didn't want
• 16:30
  to write a science fiction story, he wanted to write a
• 16:33
  contemporary thriller set on Earth.
• 16:35
  So you bring in a director that's doing that, you bring in
• 16:37
  a writer that's doing that. Suddenly we're almost not
• 16:39
  watching Doctor Who anymore. We're watching a a sort of a
• 16:42
  fabulous folk horror. Exactly.
• 16:45
  And it tricks you into thinking that.
• 16:46
  And I think again, that's why why I love this year.
• 16:49
  Now this guy Angus Mcgrandle was Angus Mcgrandle the characters
• 16:52
  name. That's right.
• 16:53
  Yeah. He's he's in the Great Escape
• 16:57
  film that I didn't really. And isn't he also in The Dice
• 17:00
  Warriors or AM? I he's he is, he's mate, Yeah,
• 17:03
  Yeah. That's right.
• 17:04
  Yeah. Yeah, hilarious.
• 17:05
  But he's in The Great Escape in a kind of a minor role.
• 17:07
  And I remember because that was kind of the kind of film that
• 17:09
  was on once a year, you know, at this time.
• 17:11
  And you, you, you sit down and watch it all the time.
• 17:13
  You know how sort of Burke Walk always ends up being the stock
• 17:16
  Chinese character in things? Angus Lenny, inevitably in the
• 17:20
  70s, turns out to be your stock Scottish character.
• 17:23
  Yes, yes, yes. Because he does it so well,
• 17:25
  though. He call Angus?
• 17:27
  Yes, exactly. It's lovely.
• 17:30
  But isn't Sarah great here? I mean, Sarah's doing her job as
• 17:32
  an investigative journalist. Yes, yes.
• 17:35
  And you know what, we push away from that after this, I think.
• 17:38
  I don't think we see it again for the rest of her run.
• 17:41
  It was there, very prevalent in the series Season 11, and then
• 17:44
  we had her doing it in robot. She does it again here and then
• 17:47
  We don't really spend a lot of time on Earth after this.
• 17:50
  Exactly. It it only really works when
• 17:51
  she's on Earth. I mean, kind of works when she's
• 17:53
  in Android Invasion as well, sort of.
• 17:55
  For the same reason, course, yeah.
• 17:58
  Our aforementioned story Now, now can I just say that here we
• 18:02
  are with the Zygons appearing with the all we see is the eyes
• 18:04
  at. First you see the hands.
• 18:05
  On the on the console, it's all organic and you know, squidgy
• 18:09
  and so on. And and much as I, you know, I,
• 18:12
  I actually do like we we've just done the Zygons invasion
• 18:15
  two-part for FTE. And much as I love, I think it's
• 18:19
  a great set of episodes. There's there's something about
• 18:22
  the way the Zygons are presented in the modern era which doesn't
• 18:24
  match what we see here which is ridiculous given that this is,
• 18:27
  you know they're filmed 30 years apart.
• 18:29
  You'd think that they'd be able to recreate the Zygons in a more
• 18:34
  organic it's the moist it's the moist it is.
• 18:36
  Exactly that. I feel as if they've been
• 18:38
  squirted down here, whereas in invasion Inversion they just
• 18:41
  feel like rubber costumes. Yeah, they're a rubber monster
• 18:44
  and and that's what's missing. It's very, it's very sad.
• 18:46
  It's very unfortunate, I should say.
• 18:48
  Which is a shame because the transformations of things they
• 18:50
  can do come couple weeks time is amazing.
• 18:54
  Oh, I love all of this. The the sort of the folklore he
• 18:57
  went walking out on the mists. You.
• 19:01
  Know of his head? Yes.
• 19:02
  I won't try and do the accent. But the way Liz Fader just
• 19:05
  punctuates it completely and goes maybe.
• 19:07
  But I know evil don't destroy all rigs.
• 19:10
  Exactly. She's great, but she's
• 19:12
  listening. Look at that.
• 19:12
  She's really listening. But also it's almost like, I
• 19:15
  mean the actress is, is is good enough that she's sort of
• 19:17
  looking at him going, I'm trying to make sure that I he doesn't
• 19:20
  look like, I don't look like I don't believe a word he's
• 19:22
  saying. But then he kind of gives it to
• 19:25
  her. Gives it to him.
• 19:26
  Like I, I, Yeah, Aliens. Sorry, evil spirits.
• 19:29
  Don't destroy your rigs. God, that would have been cold.
• 19:32
  Very. Cold in that.
• 19:33
  Water. I can tell you now with some
• 19:35
  confidence because I live by the sea, that the only time you can
• 19:38
  go into a British sea is the last week of August.
• 19:42
  That's it. And even then, it's still cold
• 19:47
  there, looking silhouette against the.
• 19:48
  Sun is that great. And the sun reflecting on the
• 19:52
  water and the waves coming in and the music.
• 19:55
  We talk again about the music. I mean just oh and this The Cave
• 19:57
  are coming up. But it just so because the music
• 19:59
  is so perfect here because and these shots the way the way
• 20:02
  Canfield's shooting it, it's so lonely, those long shots now
• 20:06
  looking at whatever the character's name is Osgood from
• 20:09
  the seat of death walking up there.
• 20:12
  It's so lonely. It's isolated.
• 20:13
  You get a real sense that there is nobody within Kui and.
• 20:17
  It's it's just so powerful and in the same.
• 20:18
  Breath in the music. There's like an ominous beat
• 20:21
  playing throughout this as well, where you're like something
• 20:23
  terrible is going to happen here.
• 20:25
  Yeah. I don't think I I do love
• 20:28
  Daddy's music, but I don't think it it warns you in this way or
• 20:33
  it doesn't suggest terrible things in this way.
• 20:38
  And this shot here, this shot here we're about to get now with
• 20:40
  Harry. And then it goes over the Oh no,
• 20:42
  it's a different one I'm thinking of.
• 20:43
  But there's a shot where it goes over where they're running over
• 20:45
  the camera. And it's just it's it's, I mean,
• 20:47
  it's a it's a classic, typical shot.
• 20:49
  Like none of Canfield's shots are unique.
• 20:52
  They're all the standard directorial repertoire, but they
• 20:57
  are all so well placed and well chosen.
• 21:00
  I think he's well edited as well in a way.
• 21:02
  Some Doctor Who's on. Yes, exactly.
• 21:04
  Exactly. So he's like, no, cut it there,
• 21:06
  cut it there, cut it there. We want this sense of movement,
• 21:08
  you know? Exactly.
• 21:11
  Oh, bless him. Smash the rig to pieces.
• 21:13
  Yeah, take it seriously. And the this gunshot here just
• 21:16
  wait for the gunshot where The Cave of fires twice and.
• 21:20
  The music stops, builds and builds and builds, doesn't it?
• 21:23
  And. Stops for the first gunshot,
• 21:25
  then there's silence for the 2nd gunshot.
• 21:28
  And then all you get is the sound of The Cave of, you know,
• 21:32
  doing whatever it is to the rifle and then Harry's.
• 21:34
  Very unusual appearance of blood as well.
• 21:37
  Very unusual appearance of blood.
• 21:38
  But the point is it's it's using sound properly.
• 21:41
  You've got the music building, but then you use the lack of
• 21:44
  music to punctuate it. And I think, again, that's I'm
• 21:47
  not convinced, Bless him, but I'm not convinced Dudley would
• 21:49
  do something like that. There'd be some kind of timpanis
• 21:53
  and things going off. I don't know if you ever
• 21:56
  remember when, when Cordo got shot in Brain Amorbius, he
• 21:59
  started playing some sort of comedy music as The Blood
• 22:01
  Splattered. You know it was.
• 22:02
  It's practically comedy music, I mean, which doesn't help the
• 22:04
  fact that it is slightly comical to have his blood spurting out.
• 22:07
  It's it's it's over the top. I'm perfectly convinced that
• 22:10
  it's a comedy, though. Do you know?
• 22:11
  Yeah. Flowers of the forest are lament
• 22:15
  for the, dead for the. Dead, yes.
• 22:18
  Nobody can do Tom Baker like Tom Baker can I?
• 22:20
  No, I mean that voice. Oh, the way she.
• 22:24
  And there's one if that gets jammed too.
• 22:25
  And the look that is just so great.
• 22:28
  And this is the breast, the best.
• 22:29
  There's. Hello, Fox.
• 22:31
  Oh, can I tell you? Right at work, every time I pick
• 22:34
  up the phone, I'm always saying this like, what the hell does
• 22:36
  that mean? Oh, you didn't.
• 22:40
  And yet. And yet.
• 22:41
  Technology, Harry. 'S been shot, yeah.
• 22:44
  Yes, I mean it's all just nonsense now diastatic reading
• 22:47
  seven O 3. Increase the Sonic quartone.
• 22:49
  But it looks great. It looks fantastic and it sounds
• 22:53
  fantastic. Don't tell me every time you
• 22:55
  have a pepperoni pizza you're not convinced to twiddle those
• 22:57
  bits of pepperoni, all right? Yeah.
• 23:01
  Yes, yeah. And.
• 23:02
  And the way Canfield, and I know this is an obvious thing to say
• 23:05
  because a lot of people do it and don't say the way he builds
• 23:07
  up the monster by showing the eyes, the hands.
• 23:10
  And then at the end of the episode we see the full
• 23:12
  creature. I don't think it's done as
• 23:15
  masterfully as it is here anywhere else.
• 23:17
  That's correct. Yeah.
• 23:19
  Some ocean. I'm so used to people not
• 23:22
  agreeing with me, you know. Thank you very much.
• 23:27
  And we had the IT may be calm, but it is never empty.
• 23:30
  I think we have, yeah. We have.
• 23:32
  That was a shame. I didn't pick that up, but that
• 23:34
  is just brilliant and especially because it's so closely, Mike,
• 23:36
  to that moment as well. And we had the bit where he's in
• 23:38
  a terribly foul mood and goes oil and emergency.
• 23:43
  Yes, yes. By all accounts, I think Tom
• 23:46
  Baker, said Nick Courtney said Tom Baker word in a great mood
• 23:48
  when filming this, I can tell it.
• 23:50
  Really. Yeah.
• 23:51
  It's interesting because usually you can tell when he's in a bad,
• 23:53
  bad mood, but maybe he's just, maybe he's just he's just it's
• 23:57
  still early on, so he's focusing the bad mood rather than letting
• 24:00
  the bad mood become visible. I wonder as well, though.
• 24:03
  There was a bit of anxiety from Nick Courtney and John Levine
• 24:06
  knowing kind of they're on their way out as well.
• 24:09
  Yeah, well. I don't think Tom Baker made any
• 24:11
  secret of the fact that he wasn't interested in UNIT
• 24:14
  stories and and that sort of thing.
• 24:17
  Well it's not really up to Tom. It's Philip Hinchcliffe deciding
• 24:19
  that. But it's it's the The thing is I
• 24:22
  mean of course this is we have to remember this is filmed as
• 24:25
  the last story of season 12 and I believe it's only because they
• 24:30
  decided to start the the next season in September rather than
• 24:32
  January that they had to. They helped us over, right.
• 24:35
  Is that I'm. I'm right.
• 24:35
  That's right. Yeah.
• 24:37
  Well, they said that Space 1999 was was coming and so they
• 24:42
  wanted to bring out that the next season earlier.
• 24:45
  So they basically made a dent in 1999 and I think 1999 dented
• 24:51
  them for one episode and then everyone came back to Doctor Who
• 24:54
  after that. Quite right, quite right.
• 24:59
  Yeah, it's fun, but it ain't no season 13 it.
• 25:02
  Is no Season 13. Can we please talk about Sister
• 25:05
  Lamont? Sister Lamont who?
• 25:07
  In my child. Shilling.
• 25:09
  She terrified me as a kid. Yeah, yeah, it's our nurse
• 25:12
  Ratchet, basically, because it's around the same time.
• 25:15
  I mean, she must be When? When's When's Cuckoo's next?
• 25:18
  Come out. It must be around Louise
• 25:20
  Fletcher in that though. Jeez, Louise.
• 25:22
  Exactly. And and you'd have to think that
• 25:24
  she's she's got Louise Fletcher on her mind with with this
• 25:27
  performance, or at least when they cast her, they're thinking
• 25:30
  of the Nurse Ratchet figure. I just had those words.
• 25:33
  Don't worry, Doctor Sullivan, you're going to be very well
• 25:36
  taken care of in my head. Oh man.
• 25:41
  And that's for the bit with the blood layer.
• 25:42
  But we'll we'll get there. Yeah.
• 25:44
  Oh, yes. In the in the forest, yes.
• 25:47
  Well, Tommy, he's literally flying now.
• 25:49
  In a minute. He does his bit, does he?
• 25:50
  Teeth. Teeth.
• 25:51
  The scientific something of teeth.
• 25:53
  Yes. Says the man with the most
• 25:56
  incredible teeth on television right now.
• 25:58
  In that area, certainly here we go, yes, Paz.
• 26:03
  And he's really. I mean this is the thing this.
• 26:05
  Is this is this is? This is what I keep coming back
• 26:08
  to, the fact that everyone's taking it deadly seriously.
• 26:09
  It is, it is a piece of drama, right?
• 26:11
  There's humor in the script from time to time, which is brought
• 26:14
  out, but there's no, there's no hamming.
• 26:19
  There's no kind of, you know, hamming it up because, oh, this
• 26:21
  is the this is a bit that's stupid, so let's treat it
• 26:23
  stupidly, you know? Which would creep in in later,
• 26:27
  Tom. Exactly, exactly.
• 26:31
  I mean, look at him. There is the most scary thing in
• 26:33
  the story. Look at that the way he says
• 26:35
  paper, and the way he says easily as paper, you know, Oh,
• 26:38
  just that voice. It was.
• 26:41
  I was learning words as well when I was wondering.
• 26:43
  I didn't know molars before this.
• 26:44
  I, Doctor Who told me a ton of words.
• 26:47
  You weren't going to the dentist enough, obviously.
• 26:49
  No, I might say. That's terrible.
• 26:53
  Oh, this, that that was another image that really frightened me
• 26:56
  as a kid, That close up on the eyes.
• 27:00
  Yes, here we go. But so what's your first
• 27:03
  encounter with this story then? Was it on a repeat or something?
• 27:06
  No, I. Had the VHS, my mate pulled
• 27:08
  down. The road This is the omnibus,
• 27:11
  yes. And he lent it to me, and I can
• 27:13
  vividly recall watching this one.
• 27:15
  I'm not taking the piss at my mother's knee.
• 27:17
  She was asleep on the chair. And I by the end of episode one,
• 27:21
  I was hugging her knee. I was terrified.
• 27:23
  I I would have been 7-8, something like that.
• 27:28
  Quite quite young, back when seven and eight was young, not
• 27:32
  like now. Well, it's.
• 27:34
  Like I think A7 or 8 year old can handle this now.
• 27:37
  Well, it's funny because that seven or eight would have been
• 27:39
  when I seven would have been. I would have been seven when I
• 27:41
  first saw this as well in 1979. Did it scare you?
• 27:46
  Scare. It didn't scare me.
• 27:48
  It transfixed me. You know what I mean?
• 27:50
  I was. I was never really scared by
• 27:51
  Doctor Who when I was that age. I was.
• 27:53
  I was just transfixed by it. Do.
• 27:55
  You remember when they put this out to the the kids in DWM, but
• 28:00
  they took it to A. School I was gonna yes, yes.
• 28:02
  And and I was actually living with Gary Jill at the time.
• 28:04
  I was about sharing with Gary Jill at the time when he was
• 28:06
  doing this all around that time. And I was because that's when I
• 28:08
  was living in London and I remember his excitement from the
• 28:11
  kids reactions in was that 90 must have been 96 then that he
• 28:16
  was doing that if the dates lined up.
• 28:18
  And yeah I think we were also delighted about how the that
• 28:22
  audience was absolutely transfixed by oh just that bit
• 28:26
  there. No, no, no.
• 28:27
  Just the way Harry's No, no. Turns into the Doctor's.
• 28:29
  No, no on the phone. It's it's such a classic kind of
• 28:33
  cut. And there they are.
• 28:34
  And here is the cliffhanger. And just that, the way it looms
• 28:37
  over the camera like that and then straight in on the face.
• 28:41
  And suddenly and done. And the music's building, and
• 28:42
  it's building in such a way. But then it's still a shock when
• 28:44
  it happens. And you, you know what's about
• 28:46
  to happen, but it's still a shock when it comes.
• 28:49
  It's a skill because I feel like as if every shots been
• 28:51
  considered, but it's it flows like a piece of drama, yeah, and
• 28:56
  this is being done at speed, cheap as well, you know, Like it
• 29:01
  has no right to be this good. Although, well look look,
• 29:04
  remember the the the filming or the recording takes place at the
• 29:07
  speed, but the rehearsal not so much.
• 29:10
  They've got all those days. I mean, I don't know how many
• 29:12
  days I have to have a filming for, you know, whatever else,
• 29:14
  whatever coming next. But it's getting the rehearsals
• 29:18
  right. And I think where the the
• 29:20
  classic series would come unstuck is is the director try
• 29:23
  thinking that they can do certain things in the studio and
• 29:25
  then when they get to the studio they go, Oh my God, we can't
• 29:27
  possibly do that because the cameras are enormous and because
• 29:29
  of this and that and and there's a light here and and so on.
• 29:32
  Whereas I think because Canfield knows the setup, but also
• 29:34
  because the actors are also perfectly they know their stuff
• 29:37
  by the time they get into the studio that they all just do it
• 29:40
  and and there's nothing actually, if you notice, despite
• 29:42
  the fact there's a lot of sort of tight shots and twos and twos
• 29:45
  and so on in what we've seen just now, there's nothing
• 29:48
  complicated, there's nothing that would have required a lot
• 29:50
  of set up. It was basically just about
• 29:52
  everyone hitting their marks as they were doing in the act in
• 29:54
  rehearsal rooms. So yeah, I mean, look, 10 out of
• 29:57
  1011 out of 10 for that episode. I mean, you know, spectacular,
• 30:02
  spectacular. As an episode one, it's one of
• 30:05
  the best, I think. It promises so much, and unlike
• 30:09
  so much other Doctor Who, it does actually keep delivering, I
• 30:12
  think all the way through, despite some slightly dodgy
• 30:14
  effects in episode 4, which we'll come to.