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Shapiroworld by Strictly Business · Strictly Business

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You're listening to Strictly Business Podcast with Lindsay Williams.
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It's Monday afternoon, but it's also morning in Manhattan.
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So mornings in Manhattan on Mondays are with David Shapiro.
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It's time for Shapiro World.
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David is from Sessom Securities.
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David, markets are starting to split into two camps.
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One camp that says, we've seen this all before.
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Come on now, we can go back to normal with a couple of blips here and there.
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Others say, this may become more prolonged.
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This may become...
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more significant and don't be so sanguine about what we're seeing.
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So I don't know, which camp are you in?
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I know which one you want to be in, but realistically, which camp do you fall
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into?
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Realistically, I'm going into the second camp because, yes, I love the market.
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I'm very happy that we're up today quite dramatically.
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But digesting the weekend news and even today's news,
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this war is going to go on for another.
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another couple of weeks, maybe even longer than that.
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And at the moment, it seems that the Iranians, whether they've been destroyed
1:05
or not, we don't know.
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You know, they're fighting to the last bullet.
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They're not going to give up at all because this is almost a religious fight
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to the end.
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You know, they're just fighting for survival.
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And yet the oil prices still remain elevated.
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They're down today, admittedly.
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But I think Trump beginning to to swerve a little.
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you know, calling for allies' help, which he hasn't before, and all of a sudden
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admitting that he can't do it alone.
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He can't get the tankers going or sailing on his own, you know,
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through the Straits of Hormuz.
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So I would have thought that this would worry investors.
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And yet today, traders have come in and have pushed all markets higher.
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The US markets are higher.
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I'm looking at the JSC, it's higher.
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And that's That's only in the last few hours.
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It was down until midday South African time and started to pick up slightly,
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and it's just been elevated now with the opening of Wall Street.
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So, Lindsay, I've still got an uncomfortable feeling.
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I was supposed to go to Israel.
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That's been canceled.
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I don't think there are any flights that are going to go there.
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There might only be a few flights there that bring back stranded.
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passengers or alternatively allow those stranded in Israel to get home.
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So, you know, there's still wars going on.
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The Israelis are attacking the south of Lebanon.
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There's still plenty of attacks in Iran.
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And the oil price is steady.
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So you explain.
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My logic says just be careful.
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markets are very strong today.
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Be very careful, because if you look at the long-term graph of the I say
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long-term, look at the 2025 graph of oil.
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It's averaging sort of $65 to $70 a barrel,
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bumbling along the occasional little blip here and there with the word that Trump
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says or something that happens somewhere, some skirmish.
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But then it starts to take off.
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And you're saying to yourself, OK, it's down today.
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That's great.
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It's come down from $106, $107 a barrel down to $99 to $100 a
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But the new level has been set, David.
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We're now in the, let's say, $80 to $100 a barrel rather than $60 to $70 a barrel.
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And if you're used to $60 to $70 with your inelastic demand for oil, I mean, people
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can't just say, oh,
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I'll switch to wind today.
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You can't just do that.
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It's not easy.
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So it will, in the longer term, affect the world's economy and therefore the world's
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stock.
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markets at the moment.
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Some people will release barrels like Japan has just announced it's going to do.
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The International Energy Agency has said, yeah, 400 million barrels we're willing to
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let go.
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That's four days worth of consumption, by the way.
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So it's a tiny amount.
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But in the long term, they'll have to rebuild those stocks.
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And so we've got to get used to new oil, a new oil level, in other words.
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Don't you agree?
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Well, that's the...
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This is not the availability of oil.
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It's what you're paying at the pump.
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That's the problem.
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You know, even though there's plentiful amounts of oil in the U.S.,
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but they take the international price.
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And I think hoping to release some of the strategic reserves, I think the hope is
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that you bring the prices down.
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But they're coming down marginally.
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They're not coming down to those levels that you've suggested.
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And remember, this is one of Trump's promises.
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You know, we will get the oil price down.
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The oil price will be low and there's going to be, you know, the inflation is
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going to come down.
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Those were all parts of his economic plan.
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Yes, he wanted a weaker dollar, so on.
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And we're seeing the reverse now.
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You see, the word plan and Trump don't go in the same sentence together because he's
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never had a plan in his life.
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He just wakes up in the morning and says, you know.
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What should we do today?
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This latest one is this short-term pain,
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long-term gain phrase that is being touted by his goons,
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the White House sycophants that come out and say, well, you know what,
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you're paying $4 a gallon for it now, but in the future you'll be paying $1.50 and
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it'll be a safer world.
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They're not interested in a potential safer world because of regime change in
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Iran,
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which of course is not going to happen.
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not certainly under Trump's war.
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They want the prices down now, like Mr.
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Trump told them he would do within a few days of him coming into power.
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He's just a liar.
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And now he's spinning it and saying, this is actually good for America, these higher
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oil prices,
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because we are a net exporter of oil.
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We're the world's biggest producer by far, he says.
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This is a tariff story again.
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I mean, it's the consumer that pays.
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the higher.
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It's the businesses that shift goods that pay the higher oil prices.
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It's airfares that go up.
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All of these things put more pressure on the consumer.
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I don't know whether we use as much oil as we used to,
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whether it's as important as it used to be in an economic sense.
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But still,
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the only discussion that I pick up here on the channels and in the
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media is all about the price of oil and the cost of this war.
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There's nothing, there's no support in the sense that he may be eradicating a regime,
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you know, that spread fear,
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that spread wars throughout the world and also spread
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uncertainty and so on.
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So I think you don't hear that.
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You know, there's, it's come all around.
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the price.
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That's all.
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That's the only discussion.
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And look, the Democrats are not winning either.
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It's just everything seems to be in the middle.
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What is the Democrat party anyway?
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If you said, if you said, right, we're going to have a snap election tomorrow,
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who's going to be the Democrat person running for the presidency and the vice
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presidency?
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Who would it be?
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They don't know.
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I don't.
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You've got no one.
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There's no...
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strong voices.
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There are a lot of voices.
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Look, from a midterm point of view, that's really, you know, city by city,
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suburb by suburb, district by district.
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And there might be some very strong kind of almost call them regional councillors
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or state
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councillors that win and do well.
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But from a federal point of view, there's nobody.
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There are no voices.
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I see Chuck Schumer.
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who is the most annoying person you can imagine.
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He's the Democrat.
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No, you're forgetting Lindsey Graham, but anyway.
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No, Listen, let's ignore the Republicans.
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But I mean, from the Democrats, he puts his hands in his pocket, both hands,
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and he's got the speech written there, and he kind of, you know,
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you look at him as like an old granddad at the golf club meeting, you know,
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giving the chairman's report or something like that.
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that's about as influential as he is.
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Just look there.
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I said, I can't believe this.
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You know, there's no passion.
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There's no fight.
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There's nothing concrete in what he's saying.
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You know, how did he do this?
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Why did he do this?
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How can he expect him to have gone into Iran without thinking about what was going
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to happen about the
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oil price?
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And you look, you say, okay, I don't know.
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And then you've got the mayor of New York, the same kind of thing, almost not saying
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anything.
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Everything here is about putting up more taxes and driving more people out of New
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York, which is already battling.
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I mean, New York financially is taking a huge amount of strain because of the
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enormous
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amount of people that they've lost in businesses.
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That started in COVID, you know, started to migrate out there, but also because
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it's expensive.
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So a little bit of a mess.
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Okay, one thing I have noticed, and this is me, there's a horrible phrase,
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kicking the tires, you know, getting out there and doing what you do.
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Actually, you go out and see companies occasionally.
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I remember you driving to the Free State to see a renewable energy company a couple
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of years ago.
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I thought, that doesn't sound like Shapiro.
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But you did it.
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But anyway, that's the point.
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You do the work.
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You do the hard miles.
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Now, I've done the hard miles by occasionally, very occasionally, David, I
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like to buy myself a little something, just like you.
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You go to these smart shops in Manhattan when you're there and you buy Cole Haan
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shoes and you buy Hugo Boss shirts
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and all that sort of thing.
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Admittedly, you say anyway that you only do it when the sales are on.
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Oh, yeah, oh, yeah.
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That's your story.
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Qualified, yes, qualified.
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So I have qualified it.
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But what I do is I go and I thought, I saw these shoes being worn by somebody.
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some famous person.
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I thought they looked nice, found out what they were.
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It's a company called Duke & Dexter.
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They started off in Brixton in South London, and it's a group of chaps that got
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together,
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and they made these handcrafted shoes, and then celebrities got a hold of them, and
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suddenly it's become quite a business,
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and they've expanded their range.
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So, of course, I'm on their website, and I have a look at one thing, and I click on
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this pair of shoes, £320.
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I'm not going to pay £320 for a pair of shoes.
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I object to doing that.
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Last time I bought a pair of shoes, I could get five pairs for that.
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But that's me.
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But in the past, that would be the end of it.
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Now, I keep on getting emails from them saying, you clicked on this item.
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It is now 10% lower if you order in the next week or something.
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That would never happen before because it's an exclusive brand.
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And they didn't need to do it.
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Suddenly, they're doing it.
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Then the same thing happened twice.
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And I thought, hello, this is a trend.
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A Swiss trainer company, a sportswear company called On.
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It used to be called On Running.
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Now it's just called On.
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Beautiful trainers.
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Minimum 150 euros going up to 450 euros.
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And they sell the t-shirts and all the other crap that goes with people like you
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being fit all day.
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I did the same thing.
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I clipped on a pair.
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And I get pestered again.
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And I'm just wondering, David, if even at the top end of the market, People are,
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these companies are starting to suffer and they're not having it their own way.
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And whether that means that retail sales worldwide or certainly in Europe are
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starting to suffer because of what we're
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seeing in the last few weeks and since Trump really went bonkers.
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I think this is AI.
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This is it.
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They know, first of all, you go onto it, you click and search something.
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I, in fact, hit something by mistake.
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on Amazon website.
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Yes.
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In fact, what happened is I got onto a product that I didn't even want,
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and I can't get rid of the marketing material now.
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It just comes all the time.
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And it keeps saying at the end, unsubscribe.
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And that seems to actually bring on more people than anything.
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As soon as you press unsubscribe and I say, please get me off, somehow it just
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triggers a lot more.
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You just can't get rid of it.
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luck.
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It's like insects, you know, you can't use doom to get rid of them on one of those
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sprays, they just keep coming.
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And I can't tell you how, you know, unfortunately,
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I might have a tidy mind that I like my phone, you know, to be clean, you know, in
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other words,
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the worry is that with so much of this material going through your phone on your
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emails,
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that you miss the important ones.
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So you've got to get rid of them, you know, I don't want 200 unread mails on my
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email.
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So I get rid of them and you cannot believe it's an exercise every day, two,
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three times a day.
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I just have to get rid, You know, I just delete.
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I don't even read anything anymore.
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And then when you go and purchase something here and they say, should we
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send you an email?
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Should we email the invoice or do you want, you know, the hard copy?
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Because if I give you my email address, I will never, ever get rid of you.
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So you're telling me that this is all to do with artificial intelligence,
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it's nothing to do with the diminished purchasing power of the consumer?
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Both.
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Both of the above.
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In other words, you've got to get ahead of your competitors because everybody else is
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doing it.
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You have to do it as well.
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You know, they're getting this onslaught of marketing material.
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It's not only an onslaught, but it's also in anything that you watch.
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If you're watching, if you're not a Pacer subscriber to YouTube or something like
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that,
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they hit you with emails.
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They hit you with, sorry, videos.
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And if you look...
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If you go onto X or you go into any social media,
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you just get advert after advert.
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And it pops up as you're reading something all the time.
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And it's just like the most annoying thing on earth,
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the amount of advertising.
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or marketing that hits you all the time nonstop.
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And yet I still can't find a site that can let me buy one football match instead of
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buying the whole package.
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I can't buy Barcelona versus Newcastle tomorrow night in the UEFA Champions
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League.
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I'll pay £10 for it.
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I don't mind.
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That's fine.
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£10, £12, that's okay.
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But you can't do it.
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You have to buy a month, and then you have to that's a month trial at a special
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price.
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And if you don't contact them, then they immediately take the money off for a year.
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I don't want that because I'll forget.
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I'm like you.
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Well, I'm not like you.
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I'm the opposite to you.
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I'm exactly like that.
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No, I'm like that because when you go through your bank, you'll just see how
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many subscriptions you have.
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And it used to be Netflix and maybe Prime.
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Now it's Paramount, MGM, wherever you go, just nonstop.
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Disney, Hula, you name it.
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All $7, $8 a month in order to subscribe or something.
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Otherwise, you can get them ads.
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You've got to get the ads.
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I've got to tell you something now as well.
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There are two stories I must share with you.
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Please do.
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I love your stories.
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The first is, as you said, you were going on to buy some fancy shoes.
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I went down on the weekend to Chelsea, which is down in 14th Street to about the
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20th. Very upmarket area now.
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And it's the meatpacking district in that which has been gentrified.
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Very fancy stores there.
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But my daughter turns 50 on Friday and she had received from family members a Rolex
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watch.
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Nice.
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Oh, beautiful.
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You know, I credit to the people in the family and that who treated her to this.
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And anyway, it was a little big for her, a couple of links.
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I thought, you know, we're going down there, there's a Rolex store, and I
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thought, like, all these snooty stores, you know,
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you'd have to go through a commissioner who would look you up and down.
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Don't you get intimidated by that, Dave, when you get to those shops?
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Like Bond Street in London, you think, oh, sorry, I'm not dressed enough for you.
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I know, I know.
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What is this?
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They've got the Society of Commissioners or whatever they're called, and they look
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down at you, you know, ex-sergeant majors.
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And anyway, so...
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I thought, well, this is a Rolex store, you know, who's going to a Rolex store?
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How many customers can they be getting?
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Lindsay, it was like an Apple store.
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It was like an Apple.
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I have never seen so many people.
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First of all, I know Tudor, T-U-D-O-R,
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is kind of maybe a family brand or within the group.
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Rolex is still privately owned.
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But the shop was packed.
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We went in there.
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the she was told to sit down on the couch and there was no room for me on the couch.
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That's how full it was.
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And Linda was there as well.
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There was a whole counter where they were serving coffee, you know, at least five or
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six people having coffee.
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And there are little rooms in which you go and choose your watches and they take out
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what you want and so on.
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This is Rolex.
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Now, I have no idea and I'm dead scared to price what a Rolex would cost.
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but it's way beyond i have a good idea what it costs is it new or vintage oh you
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know no it's brand new it's lovely you
18:09
know it's uh um whatever i i'm certainly not going to buy my daughter a rolex watch
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i'm not buying
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my wife a rolex watch so especially especially and again i'll go back to a
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story from years ago you're a
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swatch man aren't you you like a swatch i i i don't even wear my swatch if i need
18:28
the time now i'll go and look at my phone Hmm.
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But I would be a swatch man if I was really pushed into a position where, you
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know, I needed to know the time.
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But Lindsay and the customers there were young.
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These weren't the old gigolo types or, you know, those who are Botox,
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these New Yorkers who have been Botoxed out of existence and so on.
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Or anything like you saw on the Academy Awards.
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We'll go into that in a second.
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But I mean, and I was absolutely staggered.
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by people buying watches.
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And, you know, we talk about luxury.
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And here we are in so-called tough times, things as you were saying, you know,
19:09
when you went onto the internet and that you thought that maybe people are
19:15
battling, I would imagine they are.
19:17
But the shops down there, the restaurants, absolutely packed.
19:21
It's quite astonishing.
19:23
Well, this must have made you feel quite good about your exposure to the luxury
19:28
goods market in Europe and wherever else.
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That's my point.
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You know, I was saying… Hold on a sec.
19:34
I'm being very worried about it, particularly in the United States.
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But I don't know what the starting level is for a Rolex watch,
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but I imagine it's a lot higher than this watch.
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And crowded.
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And youngsters, you know, there was a couple that came.
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They were speaking French.
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I don't know why, you know, whether that means they're from France or whatever it
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is.
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And young couple, and they took out these watches and looking.
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No.
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The wife was choosing.
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I was just blown away.
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And I say, just Saturday afternoon, packed, packed Rolex store.
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And I think wherever I go, the Hermes store as well, you know, which is also
20:15
down in this area.
20:17
And there are a lot of other big brands as well.
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And people have got money.
20:19
But this is New York.
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First of all, it's a natural part of America.
20:23
And secondly, it's a tourist trap.
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As you said, you heard people speaking French.
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They're probably over there.
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And maybe it's cheaper.
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Maybe they're from Switzerland.
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Maybe it's cheaper in New York than it is in Switzerland or Paris, wherever they're
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from.
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I don't know.
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But also, it's a destination.
20:37
They may not buy anything.
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I mean, if they're confident enough to get past the bloke with the little hat on and
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the
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uniform with the gold tassels at the front,
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then they go in there and they browse around and they string the assistant along
20:53
for a while.
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And then they say, thank you very much.
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I'll think about it and go out.
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They just want to be part of that.
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I've done that before.
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Maybe I'm just being fanciful here.
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No, I think they're buying.
21:07
No, the people are buying.
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There's no doubt that it's buying.
21:11
When I go down, there's Madison Avenue.
21:13
There's a whole new LVMH store.
21:15
They're redoing the store here.
21:16
They also took over Tiffany's.
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The other part that also is that going up to the Upper West,
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you go into restaurants.
21:26
Lindsay, they're packed.
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probably people don't do any cooking in their own kitchen, but they go out.
21:33
Now, these meals are not cheap.
21:35
You know what I'm saying?
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This is not McDonald's or KFC or anything like this.
21:40
And yet the restaurants are absolutely packed.
21:44
You know, if you don't book for a decent restaurant here, you'll walk in, you're
21:49
going to wait a long time.
21:51
And it's quite, you know, there's a very well-known furniture.
21:57
company called Restoration Hardware.
21:58
Yes.
21:59
And they've got four floors.
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I mean, it's beautiful furniture.
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And the way that they decorate these stores, it's almost like, you know, it's
22:09
not like the stores we know.
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They furnish rooms, you know, that you go in so you can see how the furniture fits.
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And they've got a restaurant also on the top floor of their building now, which is
22:20
very close to where we were.
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It's packed with people.
22:23
It's almost like a destination place to go to the restaurant there.
22:27
And you look around, you can't say, well, let's go have a meal at Restorations Cafe
22:33
upstairs, you know, whatever it is.
22:35
And the reason I went in, I have to tell you, is that I needed the toilet.
22:39
And you can't find a toilet.
22:40
It's got a toilet story as well as a watch story.
22:42
Fantastic.
22:43
I get the double.
22:44
So there's no toilets.
22:46
Cold weather and good coffee.
22:49
Bad combination for me.
22:51
Thank you very much for that.
22:52
Well, as you've taken this down a different path, David,
22:58
you've heard the story about what people that don't understand do in IKEA.
23:04
Have you ever heard this story?
23:06
No.
23:07
Well, you know that they have these...
23:08
I know IKEA, yeah.
23:10
You know IKEA, and they'll style a room for you.
23:13
So they'll say, this is the IKEA bedroom that you can have.
23:16
This is the living room.
23:18
and here's the bathroom you can have.
23:20
So there's a toilet there.
23:21
And the people walk in and go into the bathroom and they see a toilet there.
23:25
They need to go like Shapiro needed to a couple of days ago.
23:29
And they go in the toilet.
23:32
Now, I don't know why I told you that story, and I wish I hadn't.
23:35
But has it gone into another thing?
23:37
Starbucks is like that as well.
23:40
But I think they're becoming cleverer to that as well.
23:42
It's a big city, and you do a lot of walking.
23:46
Sure.
23:47
David.
23:48
You and I have experienced an internet cutout during our conversation today, so
23:55
it was truncated.
23:57
I'm in the Netherlands, and it's never happened before, but it happened with you.
24:01
I am moving to the countryside in the next two, three months.
24:05
Deep countryside.
24:07
And I've signed up for Starlink.
24:10
Is that a good idea?
24:11
I mean, it's against all my finer principles because of the owner of this
24:16
particular company, who I won't name.
24:18
and I don't want to support him.
24:19
But it's a fantastic service that they offered.
24:23
What feedback have you got about Starlink?
24:26
Any at all?
24:27
For your situation, it's perfect.
24:30
I'm just worried about the quality and consistency.
24:33
That I don't know.
24:34
You know, is it high speed?
24:37
Oh, yeah, ultra, ultra high speed.
24:39
Is that so?
24:40
Yeah.
24:41
Well, who cares?
24:41
It's $30 a month.
24:44
It's 30 euros a month.
24:46
It's for nothing.
24:49
But that's the future, isn't it?
24:50
I mean, that's the answer.
24:52
I hope so.
24:53
That it will be like, yeah, we'll know if we cut out or not.
24:57
Exactly.
24:58
But I think, you know, you can't cover.
25:00
And I know in places like, well, I wouldn't imagine it would work in Europe
25:07
and that because it's quite built up.
25:09
But I mean, in South Africa and that, there's so many areas where you can't get
25:12
decent link.
25:14
And Lindsay, regard, you know, we talk about this every week.
25:16
We talk about AI.
25:17
We talk about connectivity and that.
25:20
If your country or your business is not embracing
25:27
technology, embracing digital technology, you're going to fall behind.
25:32
I know we criticize adverts.
25:35
We criticize that side of the market.
25:37
But that's what's happening.
25:38
Things have changed.
25:40
The way that we did things years ago are just so incredibly different today.
25:45
And you have to embrace it.
25:47
And you have to make sure that everybody can embrace it, even if you're living
25:53
outside in the country.
25:55
So it's such an important development.
25:57
And I can't understate the need,
26:01
the importance of upgrading your businesses accordingly.
26:06
Okay, on that note.
26:07
If it's Trump or not Trump, I mean, if it's Musk, I said Trump, I'm saying, I
26:12
mean, if it's Musk or not.
26:14
That doesn't matter.
26:16
It's the service.
26:18
He's not going to check, oh, you know, you criticized me on X, therefore I'm going to
26:20
cut you off.
26:22
David, no, he's not.
26:24
David, what is happening in the market now?
26:26
Because my internet on my laptop is still down.
26:30
I saw that the oil price when we started talking was $99.93, and that was Brent
26:35
crude oil.
26:35
I noticed when I got cast off it was about $100.75 per barrel, so it rallied nearly a
26:42
dollar.
26:42
in the space of about six or seven minutes.
26:45
Is it still that volatile?
26:48
The markets are strong.
26:50
They're coming off slightly, which would happen.
26:53
You know, it's a run-up.
26:54
It's two steps forward, one back, but so it goes on.
26:57
And I must admit that the kind of gains that we're seeing today are far beyond
27:03
what I thought would happen.
27:05
Even the JSC, which I'm looking at the moment, is up 1.5%.
27:07
Hmm.
27:08
having traded for certainly in the morning in negative territory.
27:14
Just to give you an idea as well, if we go into the US markets, the
27:20
S&P now is up over 1%.
27:23
The Nasdaq's up 1.25%.
27:25
And remember, we were down almost 5%.
27:28
So I think from top to bottom, the S&P is trading at 6,700, which is probably
27:35
3% or 4% off its top.
27:36
which is not bad.
27:37
I mean, if you consider where we are.
27:40
My commodity prices, I can't trust.
27:42
I don't know where they are.
27:45
In other words, I'm a little nervous to quote that unless I...
27:48
go on to Bloomberg's.
27:51
But I know that gold, you mentioned earlier in our conversation, gold was
27:57
below 5,000.
27:59
It's above 5,000 again.
28:01
Platinum's picked up.
28:03
Palladium's picked up.
28:05
Oil still remains high.
28:07
I've got Brent here,
28:08
and that's why it's subject to correction.
28:11
It's 103-year and West Texas.
28:17
About 98, but I don't know.
28:19
I don't know how reliable that is.
28:21
It's a little bit glamorous.
28:25
It was much below that, but that doesn't matter.
28:27
The point is it's quite choppy.
28:30
David, let's go to football now.
28:31
You secured the title on the weekend.
28:36
Come on now.
28:37
They must be surely.
28:39
They can't mess it up now.
28:41
Surely not.
28:42
Yeah.
28:43
You know what's interesting?
28:45
I watched a number of games and teams are tired.
28:49
You saw that Pep, he told his team not to come to practice today, you know, just to
28:54
take a rest.
28:56
Yes.
28:58
And I think that's a good thing.
29:00
They looked deflated.
29:02
They looked as though they'd lost the spirit to win.
29:04
Yeah.
29:06
And Haaland looks as though he just wants to go to Ibiza for a couple of months.
29:08
He was so off his game.
29:10
Yeah.
29:12
And it's sad.
29:14
I think they're tired psychologically.
29:16
If you look at Arsenal.
29:18
They've got three different competitions in one week.
29:20
Now they've got to beat Bayer Leverkusen tomorrow.
29:22
And then Sunday they play Man City again.
29:25
In the League Cup final.
29:26
In the League Cup final.
29:27
And you can't.
29:28
You see injury after injury.
29:30
A hip goes, a knee goes, a little knock here and there.
29:34
It's very difficult.
29:35
I think there's too much, Lindsay.
29:36
I just think these players, their bodies are just going to capitulate.
29:42
and watching You know, just watching the main teams, watching Liverpool, nowhere,
29:48
you know,
29:50
against Spurs, you know, just couldn't score those extra goals and ended up with
29:54
a draw at Anfield.
29:56
I mean, this is a fortress.
29:58
The same thing.
30:00
So the lesser teams, they know how to frustrate you.
30:04
You know, they know your game plan and they just camp in the goal.
30:07
And you've just got to hopefully, like, I watched...
30:12
Not Fernandes, Bernardo Silva.
30:16
You know, he tried to chip to Haaland on the far side and managed to chip the
30:23
goalkeeper, and that's how Man City scored.
30:25
Yeah, that was a fluke goal, yeah.
30:26
Yeah, but I mean, that's how you're going to score.
30:29
Yeah, and the goals have dried up as well.
30:31
I mean, yesterday Crystal Palace leads 0-0, Nottingham Forest against somebody
30:36
0-0 as well.
30:38
It was really boring.
30:40
Anyway, David?
30:42
We'll speak again on Thursday with Viv Govender, AI and tech, permitting with
30:47
this internet problem.
30:49
That was Shapiro World with David Shapiro in Manhattan.
30:51
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30:58
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31:00
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