Latest / MESSmerized - Funny and faith based encouragement in marriage , family , Christian parenting , and finding purpose / Episode 161: Max Lucado on Unbreakable Courage and Staying Steadfast in Hard Times

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Episode 161: Max Lucado on Unbreakable Courage and Staying Steadfast in Hard Times · MESSmerized - Funny and faith based encouragement in marriage , family , Christian parenting , and finding purpose

• 0:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: This is Cynthia Gannoff, and you are listening to the mesmerized podcast.
• 0:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: Hi, friends.
• 0:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome, glad you're here.
• 0:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: I need to let you know of a major, major development that's happened in Dallas, Texas.
• 0:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, maybe I think possibly fall has come.
• 0:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: We are in the low 80s right now.
• 0:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's been raining a ton.
• 0:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's possible.
• 0:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: that it could be slightly fall-ish in Texas.
• 0:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I just feel like you guys deserve to know that if you don't live in Texas.
• 0:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: And many of you don't.
• 0:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, I hear from some of you that live in other countries.
• 0:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so please understand what I tell you.
• 0:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's in a low 80s in October that that is really something worth discussing in Dallas, Texas.
• 0:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm thrilled for that.
• 0:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: And October's my favorite month for a lot of reasons.
• 0:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's Mike's birthday.
• 0:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's my birthday.
• 0:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: I like Halloween just because my birthdays around that time.
• 0:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: everyone calmed down, save your hate mail, not because of some a cult practice I have, but I just kind of like it because it's always been intertwined with my birthday and so I feel like the last of a year is my October's have been so crazy busy that I kind of blanked and it was gone and I didn't want that to happen this year and so I've been trying to think like how can I be super intentional this year?
• 1:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like in my practices and the way that I do life to really like soak up October.
• 1:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Again, because I kind of have a break.
• 1:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not speaking quite as much the next couple of months.
• 1:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't have any books do.
• 1:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not promoting a book.
• 1:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so a couple of things have been happening here that I'm trying to do.
• 1:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: And mind you, as I'm taping this, it's only October 3rd.
• 1:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: So let's calm down and thinking I'm going to be all on top of it the whole month.
• 1:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: But so far, I decided there's two things I wanted to do.
• 1:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: The first thing I wanted to make sure that every day I did something intentional that helps me enjoy the month and just enjoy the fact that
• 1:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's a little bit calmer that I'm healthy, that my family, all in all is doing well.
• 1:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: Believe you me, there's hard spots every day.
• 1:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I want to do something kind of intentional.
• 2:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I decided, I'm going to write on my calendar every day, something that I'm going to do just to celebrate that it's fall and celebrate October.
• 2:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I'm just giving you some ideas.
• 2:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: You might think about this.
• 2:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe this is for you, maybe it isn't.
• 2:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: But for October 1st, that was the first day.
• 2:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: It was raining and I stayed home and I just spent a little extra time in God's Word.
• 2:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: Enjoyed the rain, didn't make myself be productive, just kind of was quiet.
• 2:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: October 2nd, I went to a high school football game.
• 2:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's always fun.
• 2:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: We haven't been to one in a long time because I don't have a high schooler at the moment.
• 2:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: So into a game and got outside and enjoyed that.
• 2:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then October 3rd, which is today,
• 2:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: I am making pumpkin donuts.
• 2:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: If you DM me, I will give you the recipe.
• 2:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: My friend Brandy makes them they're amazing, and I just bake them in the oven, but yummy.
• 2:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so I'm making those, just trying to soak up some fall.
• 2:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: But then here's the other thing.
• 2:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: I also wanted to start October 1st, praying very specifically.
• 2:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I was reading a Jess Connelly post.
• 2:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: If you don't follow her, she's a great follow.
• 2:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: And she said, what if you ask God for more, then you think you deserve this
• 3:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: for some audacious things, pray audatiously.
• 3:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: And not like Lord I need a Porsche, right?
• 3:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: But just praying audatiously for God to show up.
• 3:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I thought, you know what, that's something I want to add to that.
• 3:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: This talks over too.
• 3:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: I want to do things every day that make me think of fall that make me see God in creation, that make me enjoy the weather.
• 3:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I also want to pray in audacious prayer.
• 3:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so she gave some prompts.
• 3:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm going to list you the prompts.
• 3:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to give them to you, read them out.
• 3:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: And if you want to see them in writing, you can get it just commonly, and you can check them out there, and then I'll tell you which one I've been praying.
• 3:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: But here's the first one, God, do something through me this month that I could never take credit for.
• 3:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Here's another one, do the thing I'm scared to ask you for because I'm afraid of how much of a hurt if you say no.
• 3:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Give me courage to receive an answer bigger than I prepared for.
• 3:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: Let me enjoy something good without immediately preparing myself to lose it.
• 3:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Give me one conversation this month that makes a relationship more honest, more whole or more free.
• 3:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Restore something in me I've quietly decided will probably always be broken.
• 4:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Close a door, I keep trying to force open.
• 4:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Open a door, I don't have the connections, credentials, or influence to open myself for your glory and for the good of others.
• 4:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: And here's the last one.
• 4:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Give me so much awareness of your presence in my ordinary life that I stop waiting for extraordinary circumstances to feel alive.
• 4:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, that last one is kind of the practice I put in place, give me so much awareness of your presence in my ordinary life that I stop awaiting for extraordinary circumstances to feel alive.
• 4:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'm trying to do things every day in the ordinary that help me recognize God and feel alive, but that's not the one I'm praying of in my life.
• 4:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: The one I pick to pray, all of October is open a door.
• 4:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't have the connections, credentials, or influence to open myself for your glory and the good of others.
• 4:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so that's what I picked and I just want to encourage you, find something to pray this month, find a way just to enjoy the fall to calm down, the holidays come so fast.
• 4:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: So this is a chance to take a deep breath to exhale, to spend time with the Lord and prepare yourself as we go into November and December.
• 5:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that's my encouragement for you.
• 5:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: And as if that was not enough, everybody, there's more.
• 5:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's max locato.
• 5:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, stop it.
• 5:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: If you've listed as show long enough, you know, like this
• 5:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: aside from the Lord, obviously.
• 5:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: But this is spiritual pillar of my life.
• 5:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Someone that I've looked up to for so many years.
• 5:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Since I was literally in high school, I've read most if not all of his books.
• 5:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then I've gotten just the crazy privilege of speaking with him on the podcast several times.
• 5:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: And he is always so gracious and kind.
• 5:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Today, he shares some little nuggets, some tidbits.
• 5:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: I've been wanting to ask him like, if you had one more sermon to preach, what would it be?
• 5:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: What's a spiritual discipline or practice that's changed you?
• 5:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's lots in there, but we're also talking out courage.
• 5:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm excited to show you guys happy October.
• 5:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: Here we go, Max, okay.
• 5:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: Good morning, Pastor Max.
• 5:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome back.
• 5:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it's a treat.
• 6:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's a treat.
• 6:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Good to see you and hope you're doing well.
• 6:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm great.
• 6:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: How's your summer going?
• 6:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: Awesome.
• 6:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Awesome.
• 6:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm really doing great.
• 6:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm feeling great.
• 6:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't have any major health concerns.
• 6:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: feel like our church is healthy, rocking on all cylinders.
• 6:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm enjoying being a granddad of seven grandkids.
• 6:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: I've got some projects I'm working on and they're all on schedule.
• 6:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it's really a sweet season right now.
• 6:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
• 6:38
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's clipping along.
• 6:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, using you have projects you're working on is comical.
• 6:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: I know that because your 40 books in or maybe I'm off on that, but pretty close, I bet you're constantly in a project.
• 6:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm speaking of projects, Pastor Max, I am in the college kid stage of summer.
• 6:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: I just wanted to remind you of this in case you've forgotten.
• 6:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Do you remember how they come home for the summer?
• 7:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: And they take over your house and they bring all their stuff.
• 7:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: Right and they have all these like new ideas because they've gone to college and they're real smart all of a sudden And I'm air quoting some of that smart, but then and I love them, but then you got to move them.
• 7:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Do you remember the move you're moving you're moving All we're doing is moving How many kids and how old are they?
• 7:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, two college age and a fourth grader.
• 7:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: So take that in for a moment.
• 7:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm basically a grandparent of my youngest, too.
• 7:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: But we're moving on.
• 7:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: My daughter has a 10 and 8 year old at a six month old.
• 7:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it's, I don't know if the math work is exactly the same.
• 7:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: But yes, you know, yeah, you know.
• 7:48
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, well, that's what's going on over here.
• 7:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: I had to follow up on something last time we talked.
• 7:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: We were talking about just being picky with our thoughts and the book you had out and you had just found out that there was a water leak or something in the bathroom and you were talking about how, and your mind before it even happened, you were like, well, we're gonna have mold, we're all gonna die, we're gonna have to move out of the house.
• 8:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then you found out that it actually tell me from wrong.
• 8:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: There actually was mold and we shall survive this.
• 8:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: So what I don't want to hear is that Pastor Max is out on the streets now because his house has been mold-emfested.
• 8:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: What's the update?
• 8:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: We had to have it.
• 8:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think the word is remediated.
• 8:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know where they go in and they got that part of the, it's a whole master bathroom.
• 8:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was a hassle and it was expensive.
• 8:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I think you've got it on your control.
• 8:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think it's like an air.
• 8:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: In worst case scenario, in some respects happened, and everything keeps going and life is good.
• 8:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it keeps that award.
• 8:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: And yes, it is.
• 8:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'm thrilled to have you here.
• 8:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we are about to go on vacation next week.
• 8:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I have your new book that I'm excited to talk about.
• 8:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I went through a lot of it.
• 9:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: But then I wanted to save it for vacation, too.
• 9:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to go, well, we're going to try not to move anybody anywhere.
• 9:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're just going to go on vacation.
• 9:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to go to Utah Parks City, Utah and you and I are both in Texas right now.
• 9:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: I assume your text.
• 9:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: I know you're generally, yes, me too.
• 9:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: And it's real hot in Texas, everyone.
• 9:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, real hot.
• 9:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: So we're going to go to Utah and maybe not be quiet as hot.
• 9:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: So that's the plan.
• 9:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, triple digits.
• 9:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: So hey, one sign of thought on the moving before we do something substantial.
• 9:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: So my my daughters are all in their 30s and a couple are in their 40s even now I'm helping them move now.
• 9:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: My youngest one my youngest one moved and we're so happy.
• 9:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: She's five
• 9:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: hours away.
• 9:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: And about two or three months ago, I spent the better part of a Saturday doing not the how many times have I done this?
• 10:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I wish I had better news for you.
• 10:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: It still keeps going.
• 10:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, well, I don't know if that was, then I'm going to need the Embreakable Courage.
• 10:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: This book talks about, if I'm going to be doing this for another few decades, I was thinking about this Pastor Max, and just, I've written a couple of books, nothing, nothing like the number you've written, and I've just watched you, I mean, over the years, I've told you this every time, just a hero of the faith to me is what you've been and just through your books
• 10:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: And after running a couple books, I remember people telling me that you kind of have to live out the message of your book and that there's so often like attacks and you can feel just the enemy's presence and so many things when you're releasing books or you're doing ministry things, whatever it is and whether or not it's books, whatever people are doing when you're doing things for the Lord, the enemy isn't a fan and I was just thinking if I have Cynthia's size,
• 11:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: Enemy attacks.
• 11:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm wondering, do you feel the max locato size enemy attacks when you're doing all these ministry things?
• 11:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, there's no doubt that I have my share of struggles and
• 11:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: those struggles.
• 11:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I have learned that on the cusp of something significant like that new sermon series or a book be in release or something of a global scale that we're participating in and that it's wise to go and pray it up because the devil is going to undercut it he's going to
• 11:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: We are wise to have people to pray for us.
• 11:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: When our first came into the past sort of the church I've been at since 1888, a friend suggested, you see if you can recruit 120 people in the church to pray for you in your life every day.
• 12:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I said, that's a lot of people.
• 12:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: He said, what does he say?
• 12:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I think the church had six or seven.
• 12:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so I put a post, I posted a sign up to this, and I said, I'd like 120 people.
• 12:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: And did you know that next Sunday, I was able to announce exactly that number, the 120 people.
• 12:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: And they did.
• 12:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: They prayed for me in not family, so thankful for it.
• 12:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: That case.
• 12:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm no longer senior pastor of our church.
• 12:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm what we call a teaching pastor.
• 12:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm not in charge of the staff or any of those things, which is good.
• 12:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm 70, almost 72, I don't need to be doing that.
• 12:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I still get to preach.
• 12:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: And yet, I do think pastors and leaders,
• 12:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: be well served by recruiting a prayer arm.
• 12:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Just, you know, it doesn't be, we'll say, yeah, hey, every day, we'll pray, last God's protection on you and your family, because we know that Satan loves to take out people who are visible.
• 13:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, it's a good word and I love that 120 was the number you were to pray for in 120's a number that you received and you talk about this idea of unbreakable courage and early on in the book I was reading and and you pose this question I think it's like page six She says is it possible for a person of faith to have unbreakable faith in today's world to have unbreakable courage in today's world
• 13:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: That's the word unbreakable is interesting to me, because I think there's moments where we're all full, faithful, and we're full of courage.
• 13:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: But this idea of unbreakable, is it more important than ever?
• 13:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: What's behind that word?
• 13:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: What does that mean to you?
• 13:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: I agree.
• 13:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think the idea of a faith that's fragile, frightened people, we don't want to have a faith that comes and goes and cannot stand the many temptations and struggles that we have at life.
• 14:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: I have been a fan of Elijah, my entire life, and this book is about Elijah.
• 14:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: And what I've admired about Elijah, and why I think his story is relevant to our day and age, is that he was simply outnumbered.
• 14:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: He was a lone voice.
• 14:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: He lived in a dark day, not in century BC was not a good time for the Jews.
• 14:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: Their faith was a train off the tracks.
• 14:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: They had a Vial King and Queen,
• 14:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: in those that couple supported financially, at least 850 profits that were shipped bail in Asheraw.
• 14:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: with sounds odd that what's interesting is that these were worshippers who actually engaged in temple prostitution and child sacrifice.
• 15:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: It could not get ugly or it was violent.
• 15:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: And no, we come to learn later in this story that there were people of faith, but they had gone on the ground.
• 15:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: They were quiet.
• 15:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: But here comes Elijah.
• 15:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's wild and woolly and bold, and his story is a model of how to live in a time which you need unbreakable, which you feel outnumbered.
• 15:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: And at my last point on this might be, you know, your listeners may not feel outnumbered 851, but you may be the only one at work, or the only one at school, or the even the only one in your family.
• 15:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: who's trying to lead a life of faith.
• 15:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you need an example when I feel outgunned, outnumbered, outmaneuver, who can inspire me?
• 16:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Who can teach me?
• 16:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think the answer is the prophet Elijah from 9th Century BC Israel.
• 16:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, and so probably most of us if you go up and church remember that his his prayer and dancing around and rain and the whole idea and and he has this big moment and
• 16:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: And we see that God shows that He is the only true God, right?
• 16:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that all the others, like that's nothing, that's all smoke and mirrors.
• 16:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: And Elijah has this huge moment and the Lord does in the moment exactly what Elijah needs him to do to prove that God has God.
• 16:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then all of a sudden, like the next
• 16:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Siri, as you see from him, he is down and out.
• 16:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think this is very interesting because he has this high of all highs in life, right?
• 16:53
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you're like, man, if only I could feel God like that then I would never forget.
• 16:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And then it's like, oh, no, he gets news that somebody wants to kill him and he's like despair, maybe depression, all these things, and it's, you wonder,
• 17:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: how quickly did we lose that high, but isn't that really all of us?
• 17:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: How quickly we go from seeing God's provision and goodness to all of a sudden, like, oh, it's all over man.
• 17:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: There's nothing good for me.
• 17:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
• 17:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, there's a reference to Elijah or more than one reference to Elijah in the New Testament.
• 17:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: one of which is in the epistle of James.
• 17:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: And he just points out, James was human, just like the rest of us.
• 17:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's kind of makes that little caveat.
• 17:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: And he wants to talk about the, I'm sorry, Elijah was human, just like the rest of us.
• 17:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 17:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: James wants to talk about the prayer life of Elijah.
• 17:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: But just that phrase, Elijah was human, just like the rest of us.
• 17:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you're nailing it.
• 17:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, one minute is the,
• 17:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: moment that I think Elijah is most famous for, it would compete with, you know, his rapture being taken into heaven in a chariot, never dying.
• 18:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: But right up there with that would be this Mount Carhol moment in which he dares 850 false profits to invite their gods to bring fire on the
• 18:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Elijah puts more water on the altar and he doesn't even request fire and firefalls.
• 18:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's a miracle of miracles and it creates a revival and immediately after that he gets worried that Jezebel is out to killing and he goes on the run and he runs for days and days until finally he falls.
• 18:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: So he goes from this high on Mount Carmel to saying, if there's nothing left for me to do, and I do think it's depression.
• 19:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: I do, I think he's exhausted, I think he's depleted.
• 19:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think he's afraid, I think it's tired of me alone.
• 19:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: and how the Lord ministered to Him is so beautiful.
• 19:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: But your point is really well taken that we can go from Mount Carmel to the pits in a short period of time.
• 19:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: And emotions are emotions.
• 19:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: And God doesn't give up on us.
• 19:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't think more Halle of Us when we're feeling high.
• 19:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't think less of us when we're feeling low.
• 19:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: We just weather these seasons and trust that God is still God and He gets us to both.
• 19:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I think what I love Elijah as he's praying and going through this whole thing and you know, he's pouring water on his little stack to make it even harder for fire to come down and whatever and these kind of mocking the other ones, he's like, hey, where's your God?
• 19:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: They must be slumbery and sleeping.
• 19:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: I love his moxie.
• 19:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: He's just got a little bit of attitude in there and I think that's encouraging for those of us who skim the outskirts of sarcasm and humor, so I love that.
• 20:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: But you talk about the words steadfast.
• 20:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: and how much that word means to you and and and in the story talk to us about the importance if we're going to have a faith especially in in this culture if we're going to have courage in a culture where just straight up it's dark like what you're talking on Elijah's time like what what a steadfast mean to us.
• 20:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: I love that word.
• 20:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's an old English word.
• 20:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: It means unmovable, steady, won't be, won't, much is often used in old literature for rocks, stable foundations.
• 20:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: So a steadfast faith is at what Elijah models for us.
• 20:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's what we need today.
• 20:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, the statistics are
• 20:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: I am grateful for the good news we hear.
• 21:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: Breakouts have revival, stories of repentance.
• 21:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's some wonderful things happening around.
• 21:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: But that said, one out of three people suffer from some form of depression.
• 21:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: The suicide rate is the highest experience in sport war, too.
• 21:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: Four out of 10 teenagers battle anxiety.
• 21:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: Four out of 10.
• 21:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's a time in which they're supposed to be enjoying life.
• 21:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not stressed out.
• 21:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: And it's still a risky thing to take a stand for your thing.
• 21:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: You're going to be criticized, ostracized, not lose your job, certainly.
• 21:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: Be eliminated from a candidate for promotion.
• 21:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: So it's not a easy thing.
• 21:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: The world.
• 21:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: The world has never been friendly toward a deep Christian faith.
• 21:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, it has been tolerant of some Christian principles, but for the person to say, I believe that the Almighty God is a God of law who came to the earth.
• 22:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: who died from my sins and rose from the dead, and that when I say yes to him, my sins are forgiven, my death is defeated, and he is the only access to eternal life.
• 22:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: For me to say that is to separate myself from popular culture, because the religion of our day is tolerated.
• 22:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: A little bit of this or pluralism, both words were,
• 22:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: a little bit of this, a little bit of that, you do your thing, I'll do my thing.
• 22:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so for a person to really believe that Jesus was serious when he said, I am the way the truth and the life and nobody gets to the Father except for me.
• 22:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that'll cause you to need steadfast faith.
• 22:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's the kind of faith Elijah had.
• 23:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: Elijah's faith, he comes on to the scene announcing the Lord God of Israel lives.
• 23:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: He announces that in the throne room of J.
• 23:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: A.
• 23:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: A.
• 23:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: A.
• 23:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: A.
• 23:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: A.
• 23:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: A.
• 23:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: A.
• 23:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: A.
• 23:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: A.
• 23:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's really the summary.
• 23:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: If he had a tombstone, which he doesn't, because he was raptured into heaven.
• 23:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: But if he had one, I'm bitter would say, the Lord God of Israel is, and that's the example he leads to us.
• 23:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you said something I thought was profound in the book.
• 23:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: You talk about how we are in Elijah and our workplaces, our homes, that that's the call for our lives.
• 23:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: That steadfastness on our beliefs, even when it's unpopular, talk to us a little bit about that and encourage us in that, and then this idea of also modeling that.
• 23:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think,
• 23:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think the angle I'd like to go out with that question is, yes, to be a person of faith in a faithless world is like salmon swimming upstream.
• 24:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: However, just as Elijah was never alone or never alone, our Heavenly Father shows up.
• 24:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: He's shown up.
• 24:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: when Elijah was sent to the ravine called Kereth, and there he lived for at least a year, sustained by ravens and creek water.
• 24:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: God showed up in the town of Zerapheth when God's sitting there, which is, by the way, the hometown of Jezebel has arched into me.
• 24:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: When God's sent him there and a widow provided for him, and then the widow's son died,
• 24:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: in the Sun came to life.
• 24:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Elijah declared a drought in the name of the Lord in seven years.
• 24:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: It did not rain.
• 24:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: There was no dew on the earth.
• 24:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: But when God told him, the prey at the end of seven years, he prayed in rain return.
• 25:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: So the story of Elijah is spotted, is sprinkled.
• 25:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: with these moments, these masterful, majestic moments.
• 25:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: We've not even mentioned how God spoke to him in the still small voice when he was battling his own aggression.
• 25:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: So the hero of Elijah's story is God.
• 25:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: It is Elijah, yes, but Elijah was strong because he believed that God is strong.
• 25:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Again, his first words, the Lord God of Israel lives.
• 25:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: He really believed that.
• 25:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think our question is, do we really believe that?
• 25:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: You do I really believe today with its challenges and blessings that the Lord God, the God of the universe, who can hold the entire universe,
• 25:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: Do I believe that he is alive and well and still managing my life?
• 25:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that my Savior, our Jesus Christ has seated at the right hand of the throne of God.
• 26:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: And nothing in the cosmos happens apart from his permission for blessing.
• 26:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Do I really believe that?
• 26:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's where a steadfast faith comes from.
• 26:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: The more I can say, yes, I do believe that, the more my faith will.
• 26:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'll find that unbreakable courage.
• 26:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, and if you look at Elijah's story, I mean, as you just point out, how many times did he walk through really hard?
• 26:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Not even just did he stumble into the hard things.
• 26:30
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like he was sent to places.
• 26:32
  [SPEAKER_00]: It were, and speakably hard, and yet that's part of the story of faithfulness and steadfastness.
• 26:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's so easy as we're trying to do the God things.
• 26:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're trying to follow him and trying to be the lies in our workplace.
• 26:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: We're like, yeah, well, I mean, God are even showing up.
• 26:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Everything's going against me in the midst of that.
• 26:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: And Elijah's story is, yeah, things were still hard, but God was still the hero in the midst of the heart.
• 26:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you talk about Elijah level prayers.
• 26:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think this is an interesting, um,
• 27:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: idea that I struggle with and I think maybe a lot of people do this confidence and and praying relentlessly for God to show up.
• 27:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: With the juxtaposition of are we supposed to also pray and then let it go and walk away from it.
• 27:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Like there's this is two sides this I think we've heard both and maybe there's an occasion for both where you pray and you let it go and you move on and you've handed that to the Lord.
• 27:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: Versus showing up and saying, Lord, I'm gonna stand in this circle and not move until
• 27:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: you do something mighty miraculous, like, how do we pray like Elijah?
• 27:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: What did you take from that as you were studying, Historia?
• 27:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, thanks.
• 27:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's such a great question.
• 27:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: The prayer life of Elijah is one of...
• 27:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: relentless faith in that he stayed before the Lord.
• 27:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: He stayed there.
• 27:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: In this case, the two examples are he prayed for rain and rain came, but the his first prayer was not answered.
• 28:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: He prayed seven times for rain and then the prayer was answered.
• 28:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: He prayed for the dead son of the widow,
• 28:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: And he placed his body over the boy and prayed passionately, not once, not twice, the three times.
• 28:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think when it comes to prayer, it's a balance between passionate, urgent prayer and trusting that our heavenly Father will respond in the right way.
• 28:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm always a bit uncomfortable if we begin placing the power of prayer in the one who prays.
• 28:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're in the way we pray.
• 28:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: And Jesus took a heart stand to get so stood on the street corner and all for prayers to be heard by man.
• 28:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: So if I don't want people to think, okay, if you wanna pray, you've gotta get loud, you gotta be seen, you gotta be public, you just gotta be genuine.
• 29:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: you just need to be genuine.
• 29:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: The earnest prayers of a righteous man evade of the much is what James said.
• 29:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: So if that means praying 10 times, one time, 24 hours, if you wanna fast for a week, if you wanna fall on your face in the morning, but if it's something real passionate to you, then let that be seen, let that be seen.
• 29:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let God see your passion for this prayer.
• 29:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: He has invited us to direct the affairs of history in conversations with him.
• 29:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so the greatest privilege we have is to pray.
• 29:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let us be like Moses who stood before the war.
• 29:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Abraham stood before the war.
• 29:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Even on Lord Jesus in the Garden of Gessimony, wasn't enough for Him to plead once or twice.
• 30:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: He had to plead three times, let your will be gone.
• 30:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: So there's something about just remaining earnestly in the presence of the Lord.
• 30:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: And something about that gets the attention of heaven and causes actions.
• 30:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah.
• 30:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: Back to steadfast, right?
• 30:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: Is that whole idea of steadfast?
• 30:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, this vigilance.
• 30:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: And you talk a lot in the book about the depression that Elijah went through and we're gonna let everyone read the book and get more on that.
• 30:34
  [SPEAKER_00]: But I want you know, it's in there.
• 30:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: We touched on it.
• 30:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Also, divine disruption.
• 30:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: Talk to me just a minute about that and just that expectation in our lives on a divine disruption.
• 30:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 30:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I love the story of Mount Carmel.
• 30:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: You can't talk about Elijah without mentioning Mount Carmel about 10 times.
• 30:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Remember, this is when he dared a habit, Jezebel, to a cage fight, to a showdown on Mount Carmel.
• 31:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: And basically he said, you bring a ball, all bring a ball, you build an altar, all build an altar.
• 31:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: You call on your God, I'll call on my God.
• 31:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's a safe estimate.
• 31:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: It surprised me, but it's a safe estimate to say that maybe a million people in here, the place of Mount Carmel is almost like an amphitheater.
• 31:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Those of us who traveled to Israel, it looks like a perfect place for an outdoor concert.
• 31:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Because of the rugged terrain, and you can envision just multitudes and multitudes
• 31:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: gathering at 850 false prophets they're going to bring a lot of people right the king is going to show up that's going to bring a lot of people and word is out that a lie to this range you will a rebel of a prophet is going to make a public appearance that's going to bring a lot of people what matters most though is that God was present
• 32:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: and God came to intervene.
• 32:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was a divine disruption.
• 32:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: Israel was headed in a certain direction and God just stepped in and said, no, these are my chosen people.
• 32:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: I have said from the get-go that by the sentence will come through Abraham.
• 32:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm not gonna let my chosen people's train go off the tracks.
• 32:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so it was a divine interruption.
• 32:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: May God bring that today.
• 32:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: May He bring one in our world today.
• 32:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: And may He bring it to me personally.
• 32:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, when I, when I'm headed off the track, I welcome Lord, just bring that disruption.
• 32:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: Whatever that means, it might mean a faith issue.
• 32:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean a health issue, a job issue, a marriage issue,
• 32:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: intended to get our attention, to be like the prodigal son who finally came to his senses and left the pigs in the rearview mirror.
• 33:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's a divine disruption.
• 33:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's amazing.
• 33:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, everyone, the book is called Unbreakable Courage by Max Lucato Strong Faith in an Age of Anxiety Chaos and Exhaustion.
• 33:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: As we wrap up, I have a couple of rapid-fire questions.
• 33:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Are you ready?
• 33:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm ready.
• 33:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: OK. What's something you wish every 40-year-old knew?
• 33:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: I know, they're tricky.
• 33:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're tricky.
• 33:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
• 33:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think 40-year-olds
• 33:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: are so tempted to indulge in grief pleasure that could result in lifetime pain.
• 33:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm thinking primarily about marriage fidelity, marriage fidelity, and maybe just because there's a pastor I've seen it too often.
• 33:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I've heard of that one weekend with her, and now I have a lifetime of guilt.
• 33:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's just not worth it.
• 33:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: What's something every 70-year-old needs to remember?
• 34:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, our bodies start to wear out.
• 34:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: They really do.
• 34:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: You don't want to hear my list.
• 34:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm in good health.
• 34:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: But things just quit working.
• 34:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: And you know what?
• 34:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: Rather than let that be a cause for sadness, let it be an appetite for heaven.
• 34:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: Every time I have tonight I have this ringing in the year and about two or three months ago I thought, okay, so I can either get discouraged when I hear that or I can say, okay, that's a reminder
• 34:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: that I'm closer to heaven than I've ever been.
• 34:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, I'm not giving myself an A plus on that yet.
• 34:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm still struggling.
• 34:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: But all of us are bodies just wear out.
• 34:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's how it is.
• 34:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: You do your very best.
• 34:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: So closer to heaven.
• 34:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Amen.
• 34:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: What happened is had the biggest impact on your faith?
• 34:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: Morning, prayer time.
• 34:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: Morning, prayer time.
• 34:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 34:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I did go through an intern program when I was in Seminary, a nine-month pastoral intern program.
• 35:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: And built into the calendar was an hour for prayer and Bible study every morning first thing.
• 35:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I just developed the habit.
• 35:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's not always an hour.
• 35:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, sell them, sell them an hour.
• 35:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think length of time matters.
• 35:19
  [SPEAKER_01]: But a good conversation with God, a good reading and scripture, and a surrender of the day.
• 35:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's the purpose.
• 35:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: the first Bible character you want to chat with and have an other than Jesus and what do you want to know?
• 35:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, I think I think Peter I want to say Peter I get you.
• 35:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: I know you did not cross and I've done not cross to and you gave in to the pressure I get it and thanks for being honest but there you were 50 days later preaching the greatest sermon.
• 35:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Wait a go.
• 35:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm
• 35:56
  [SPEAKER_00]: that gave me goosebumps.
• 35:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's amazing.
• 35:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, last one.
• 35:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: Last question.
• 36:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: If Max Lucada is going to preach his last sermon, which isn't any time soon everyone, he's in good health, he's doing great.
• 36:06
  [SPEAKER_00]: But if you're preaching your last sermon and you're like, this is probably one, a lot of people will go back to.
• 36:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: What's the topic?
• 36:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: What's the topic?
• 36:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: God, so love the world that he gave his one and only son, whoever believes on him will not perish, but have eternal.
• 36:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: John 316, it's my life first, I've written a whole book called 316, if I just get one Sunday or one sermon, I know what I've reached.
• 36:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's, that's, that's a word and, you know, Pastor Max, I have a young one that I mentioned earlier that we adopted from foster care and he struggles academically, mildly and but on the way to school every day we memorize verses and we memorized John 3 16 that was the first one and I feel like the Lord kept putting over my heart that it really doesn't matter academically like would we like it to look different.
• 37:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
• 37:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: But this kid has God's word in his heart.
• 37:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: He knows John 3, 16 and he was just baptized a few weeks ago.
• 37:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: And at some point, you realize everything else.
• 37:09
  [SPEAKER_00]: It really does matter.
• 37:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Second, you know, yeah, you wouldn't want the opposite.
• 37:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: You wouldn't want academic, but
• 37:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: You know, morally irresponsible.
• 37:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah.
• 37:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, well, thank you for that word.
• 37:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: And thank you for just always showing up and being present.
• 37:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: And everybody grab a breakable courage strong faith in the age of anxiety chaos and exhaustion.
• 37:33
  [SPEAKER_00]: And Pastor Max is not hard to find.
• 37:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: Look at all the places and you can find him.
• 37:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much.
• 37:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
• 37:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: Have a great vacation.
• 37:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much.
• 37:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Alrighty friends, I love him so much.
• 37:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: Man, once a year with Max Lucato, it's almost more than I can take.
• 37:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, all right, you guys, don't forget, find some ways to be intentional in October, and then one other intentional thing I'd love for you to do is share this podcast with a friend.
• 38:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: And just continue to help us grow this podcast.
• 38:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: Hope more people find it, and let the Lord work in people's lives and hopefully through,
• 38:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: The Holy Spirit, the words that we put on this show, so please share it with someone that would mean so much.
• 38:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: All right, you guys, thanks for being a part of the mesmerized family.
• 38:14
  [SPEAKER_00]: You're the very best.