Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan: Bardstown, Kentucky - Unsolved Murder Capital

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Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan: Bardstown, Kentucky - Unsolved Murder Capital · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:08
Speaker 1: Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. Look y'all, I know
0:19
Speaker 1: I talked about my childhood periodically on Body Bags, and
0:24
Speaker 1: everybody has good and bad in their life. Everybody doesn't
0:27
Speaker 1: matter who you are, nobody's immune to it. But in
0:31
Speaker 1: my childhood, the good times stand out to me more
0:35
Speaker 1: so than the bad. And I could complain about the
0:39
Speaker 1: bad if I wanted to, but at this point in
0:42
Speaker 1: my life, I like to think about the good. And
0:44
Speaker 1: one of the really cool things about my childhood is
0:47
Speaker 1: that I spent a lot of time with my paternal grandparents,
0:51
Speaker 1: and my grandfather, who I call Papau Morgan. I love
0:57
Speaker 1: that man. He's a big man, real big men. He
1:01
Speaker 1: still raised mules, if you can imagine that for people
1:05
Speaker 1: that would There were actually a group of guys that
1:09
Speaker 1: would buy mules from him that wanted them to pull wagons.
1:12
Speaker 1: And there was actually one old man that still preferred
1:16
Speaker 1: a mule drawn plow over a tractor. But when I
1:20
Speaker 1: had free time with my pipe all morning, one of
1:23
Speaker 1: the things that he would take me to do too,
1:25
Speaker 1: actually was to fish for bluegill that's brim with cane pole.
1:32
Speaker 1: And number two was to go hunting. Now, think about
1:36
Speaker 1: this is that in my family, everything my family did
1:42
Speaker 1: was for subsistence. They had a huge garden, and it's
1:46
Speaker 1: not like it was a hobby. They had to have
1:49
Speaker 1: a garden and it was massive, and they worked in
1:51
Speaker 1: it all the time. When they went hunting, it wasn't
1:54
Speaker 1: like it was a pleasure trip. My grandfather would probably
1:58
Speaker 1: look back and laugh at these guys that pay thousands
2:01
Speaker 1: and thousands of dollars to go out and hunt from
2:03
Speaker 1: a helicopter. He did it so that he could put
2:07
Speaker 1: food on the table. Now one of his primary things
2:12
Speaker 1: that he would hunt for. And I know many of
2:14
Speaker 1: you guys will recoil over this, will squirrel. My grandmother
2:18
Speaker 1: could take a squirrel and she would make squirrel and
2:21
Speaker 1: rice and it was one of the best tasting things
2:23
Speaker 1: in the world. Now, as I've gotten older, squirrel is
2:26
Speaker 1: not necessarily in my repertoire anymore as it were. But
2:30
Speaker 1: I remember going out in those piny woods in North
2:34
Speaker 1: Louisiana with my papa walking along five six seven years old,
2:39
Speaker 1: and no, he didn't give me a gun. I just
2:42
Speaker 1: walked along with him, and his eyes were always toward
2:45
Speaker 1: the sky, looking at the tops of those trees and
2:48
Speaker 1: he'd buy a squirrel every single time, and that was
2:52
Speaker 1: pure joy to me, just being with him, learning from him,
2:56
Speaker 1: covering my ears from sound of that twelve gage shot
2:59
Speaker 1: gun going on. But today we're going to talk about
3:05
Speaker 1: a case that involves two deaths. One you're very familiar with,
3:12
Speaker 1: Crystal Rogers, and the other maybe not so much, but
3:17
Speaker 1: just as important in this case is Crystal rogers daddy,
3:22
Speaker 1: who went by the name Tommy Tommy Ballard. He was
3:25
Speaker 1: actually shot and killed while walking through the woods with
3:31
Speaker 1: his twelve year old grandson. And it's for that reason
3:35
Speaker 1: I really wanted to talk about this case today. I'm
3:38
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body Bags. The older
3:45
Speaker 1: I get, Dave, the more I would desire to have
3:49
Speaker 1: a time machine. I wish I could go back in
3:52
Speaker 1: time and see my Papa, my granny again. I wish
3:56
Speaker 1: I could to sit at my granny's kitchen table. And
3:59
Speaker 1: they had a very very tiny house. Their kitchen table
4:04
Speaker 1: was their dining room as well. We would have Christmas
4:08
Speaker 1: meals and Thanksgiving meals in the same room where they
4:12
Speaker 1: were being prepared, you know. But it was it was
4:14
Speaker 1: a joyful scene. It was always warm and everybody's sit
4:17
Speaker 1: around the table and we talked about things. I remember
4:19
Speaker 1: sitting next to my granddaddy and he would actually the
4:23
Speaker 1: way he would complain. He would complain about coffee because
4:28
Speaker 1: he liked it strong. My granny's name was Pearl. He'd
4:31
Speaker 1: be sitting there and I think she did this on purpose.
4:34
Speaker 1: He's a big man. She'd make him drink out of
4:36
Speaker 1: these little, tiny, tiny coffee cups with a saucer, and
4:41
Speaker 1: if if the coffee wasn't strong enough, he'd say, Earl,
4:45
Speaker 1: you run out of coffee, Oh my goodness. And so
4:49
Speaker 1: you know, that was that was kind of his way.
4:51
Speaker 1: And it had to have chickry in it by you know,
4:54
Speaker 1: in Louisiana. Chickry is a thing that developed back in
4:57
Speaker 1: you know, I think probably pre Civil War. But they would,
5:00
Speaker 1: you know, Southerners shall make coffee out of anything, and
5:03
Speaker 1: it had that. It's horrible taste to me. I don't
5:05
Speaker 1: like it. I know some of you guys will take
5:07
Speaker 1: a fist of that too, probably, but I just don't
5:09
Speaker 1: like chick or coffee.
5:10
Speaker 2: Whenever I hear the name Pearl used as a Southern
5:13
Speaker 2: woman's name, the Beverly Hillbillies and Lester Flatt and Earl Scrugs.
5:17
Speaker 1: You know, Earl Pearl.
5:19
Speaker 2: Don't give your love to Earl. I just remember that.
5:22
Speaker 2: But Bartstown, Kentucky, if you look it up, you're going
5:25
Speaker 2: to find out there is a number of stories I
5:29
Speaker 2: bought Bardstown, beautiful town in Kentucky. The sad part is
5:33
Speaker 2: the most of the stories that you read are going
5:35
Speaker 2: to be of unsolved murders. Oh, not unsolved deaths. We're
5:39
Speaker 2: talking unsolved murders. In this case where right off the
5:44
Speaker 2: top mentioning Crystal Rogers and her father, Tommy Ballard. Now,
5:47
Speaker 2: Crystal Rogers body has never been found. Tommy Ballard died
5:53
Speaker 2: sixteen months after Crystal went missing, and the only thing
5:57
Speaker 2: we know for sure is that he didn't kill him
5:59
Speaker 2: so because his gun had not been fired. That was
6:03
Speaker 2: something that was bandied about at first. Yeah, in the
6:06
Speaker 2: cases we're talking about today, the FBI had to be
6:09
Speaker 2: called in. And oftentimes that is the case when you
6:14
Speaker 2: might have a conflict internally, the FBI has to be
6:18
Speaker 2: invited in. They don't just come in and take over, right,
6:21
Speaker 2: And we had in Bardstown, Kentucky. You have Bardstown Police Department,
6:25
Speaker 2: and you have the Sheriff's department. In this case, Crystal
6:28
Speaker 2: Rogers and Brooks Houck had a two and a half
6:31
Speaker 2: year old toddler that they biologically were the parents, and
6:35
Speaker 2: Crystal Rogers had four other children and they were living
6:37
Speaker 2: together under the same roof as husband and wife Brooks
6:41
Speaker 2: Howe and Crystal Rogers. Now Crystal Rogers went missing. Her
6:46
Speaker 2: car was found on the side of the road two
6:47
Speaker 2: days after she was reported missing. And we're talking about
6:50
Speaker 2: in twenty fifteen, around the fourth of July holiday twenty fifteen,
6:54
Speaker 2: when Crystal Rogers went missing, it wasn't Brooks how that
6:58
Speaker 2: reported his partner live in partner, they cohabitated. That's what
7:03
Speaker 2: boggles my mind. He did a report her missing, Joe.
7:05
Speaker 2: She was reported missing by her mother. Because when Brooks
7:09
Speaker 2: house is in Bardstown and he sees Crystal Rogers mother
7:13
Speaker 2: and she said, hey, Brooks, I hadn't talked to I
7:15
Speaker 2: hadn't talked to Crystal. Where is she? He's I don't know,
7:18
Speaker 2: I hadn't seen her. What don't y'all live together? What
7:21
Speaker 2: do you mean you haven't seen her? And Brooks just
7:23
Speaker 2: goes on about as mary Way like nothing's up. Crystal
7:26
Speaker 2: Rogers mother goes well, I'm reporting her missing, and she
7:29
Speaker 2: goes right to the police station. Right then, she knows
7:31
Speaker 2: something is up because this is not how she has
7:34
Speaker 2: a relationship with her daughter. They talk every day, they
7:36
Speaker 2: see each other all the time. I mean this was
7:38
Speaker 2: a very small town. They knew one another, okay in
7:41
Speaker 2: terms of friends and family, and not seeing somebody, not
7:44
Speaker 2: talking to somebody is an unusual occurrence, and saying I
7:49
Speaker 2: don't know is not a good answer.
7:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're you're right. And it's that familial circle you
7:55
Speaker 1: know that you and I talk about so often, Dave.
7:58
Speaker 1: If there's anything that disrupts that, and a lot of
8:00
Speaker 1: it depends upon the other people within that circle and
8:04
Speaker 1: how acutely aware they are of the situation that's going
8:08
Speaker 1: on with you know, the dynamics of a couple and
8:10
Speaker 1: that sort of thing. Is there anything that that kind
8:12
Speaker 1: of stinks? You know, that just doesn't line up? And look, man,
8:17
Speaker 1: when when you begin to think about how first off,
8:20
Speaker 1: she had not had contact with her mother, right, and
8:23
Speaker 1: you've got the person in her life that okay, let's
8:27
Speaker 1: face it is the most intimate relationship that you.
8:31
Speaker 2: Probably have year old child together.
8:34
Speaker 1: Oh boy, Yeah, and they're domicile together. Yeah, you know,
8:38
Speaker 1: to top things off, you you had mentioned something and
8:41
Speaker 1: this roadway is going to come up a couple of times.
8:44
Speaker 1: And remind me, Dave, I'm ever heading up to Kentucky, which,
8:47
Speaker 1: by the way, I love that state is one of
8:48
Speaker 1: the most beautiful places. The farms and oh my gosh,
8:52
Speaker 1: it's it's striking when you're up there. But if I'm
8:55
Speaker 1: going up there, remind me to stay off the Bluegrass Parkway.
9:00
Speaker 2: No, especially around Bardstown. Get off a walk, get a mutle,
9:04
Speaker 2: do not drive on that highway.
9:05
Speaker 1: I know, it's like you know, that keeps coming up.
9:07
Speaker 1: And you know, when you have a person that is
9:11
Speaker 1: missing and you have their vehicle found along the roadway.
9:18
Speaker 1: First off, when you walk up to the vehicle, police
9:21
Speaker 1: officers going to check and see, well, check one box,
9:25
Speaker 1: is anybody in it? And if it's absent any sign
9:28
Speaker 1: of life or maybe somebody that's sleeping or maybe something
9:32
Speaker 1: really bad, you're thinking maybe they're deceased and they're laying
9:35
Speaker 1: inside the visible space, which, by the way, is a
9:38
Speaker 1: principle within law when if a police officer can walk
9:43
Speaker 1: up and actually evidence something inside of a vehicle, that's
9:48
Speaker 1: immediately cause for them to want to explore further, and
9:52
Speaker 1: sometimes if somebody's in danger, they don't necessarily have to
9:56
Speaker 1: have a warrant at that moment time, because it's the
9:59
Speaker 1: idea that it's an emergent situation. I actually worked a
10:02
Speaker 1: case and you might find this interesting of a fellow
10:04
Speaker 1: that was we found dead on the highway, dumped in
10:08
Speaker 1: the middle of I two eighty five in Atlanta on
10:13
Speaker 1: a ramp, and this guy had been brutalized. He was
10:17
Speaker 1: shot multiple times, including in the head. It turns out
10:21
Speaker 1: that this fellow was at the Final Four in Atlanta.
10:24
Speaker 1: He had tickets to the ball games games. He got
10:27
Speaker 1: robbed by two guys. They took his car and they
10:31
Speaker 1: were later caught in Ohio for speeding or breaking center line.
10:34
Speaker 1: And guess what the cop wound up seeing when he
10:37
Speaker 1: walked up to the car and pulled him over. It's
10:39
Speaker 1: like that scene from pulp fiction where Marvin gets shot
10:42
Speaker 1: in the head and they said, man, what do you shoot?
10:44
Speaker 1: Why do you shoot Marvin? And the whole back of
10:48
Speaker 1: the interior that car is an Ohio State trooper. I'll
10:50
Speaker 1: never forget. This was just blasted with blood deposition.
10:54
Speaker 2: Oh. He being killed in the car.
10:56
Speaker 1: In Atlanta, and they had driven his car to Ohio. Man,
11:00
Speaker 1: so you know when you when you're taking care of
11:04
Speaker 1: that man, the wolf's on it. Huh. So when you
11:07
Speaker 1: you get up, you know, a police officer walks up
11:10
Speaker 1: to a vehicle. Now, obviously that's a that's a stop
11:13
Speaker 1: when you find a car abandoned on the side of
11:15
Speaker 1: the road. And how many times do you ride down
11:17
Speaker 1: the road, Dave, and you might see a car sitting
11:20
Speaker 1: on side of the road and it's been there for
11:22
Speaker 1: a while, and you're thinking, has anybody ever stopped to
11:25
Speaker 1: take a look at that car? What's going on with that?
11:27
Speaker 1: And why is it still here? Why have the authority
11:29
Speaker 1: has not had it removed because it's obviously a hazard.
11:32
Speaker 1: It's dangerous, you know, to have these things on the
11:34
Speaker 1: shoulder of the road. But they're going to check inside
11:36
Speaker 1: of it and they're going to look for any evidence. Now,
11:38
Speaker 1: what stood out to you relative to when they they
11:42
Speaker 1: got to her car and and they began to inspect it.
11:45
Speaker 2: The fact that it was found after she's reported missing. Okay,
11:50
Speaker 2: Bluegrass Parkway is a busy thoroughfare. It would have been noticed.
11:56
Speaker 2: I would have thought before this. Okay, if it had
11:59
Speaker 2: been there, so that's number one. Number two, the car
12:03
Speaker 2: is found with a flat tire by Maril Mark or
12:06
Speaker 2: fourteen on the Bluegrass Parkway. The keys are still in
12:10
Speaker 2: the ignition, and her purse and cell phone are inside.
12:14
Speaker 2: If the keys are in the ignition, her purse and
12:18
Speaker 2: cell phone are inside the car, and there's a flat tire.
12:21
Speaker 2: If you assume that she had a flat tire and
12:24
Speaker 2: pulled over and then had to leave to go get help,
12:27
Speaker 2: she would have left with her keys, her purse, her
12:29
Speaker 2: cell phone, just normal stuff that we would grab to leave.
12:33
Speaker 2: So immediately, you know, it appears to me to be
12:36
Speaker 2: a staged scene because of the stuff that's left behind.
12:40
Speaker 2: Because all you're left with is she had a flat
12:42
Speaker 2: tire and somebody came along and kidnapped her, grabbed her
12:45
Speaker 2: and threw her in their car and took off.
12:47
Speaker 1: What lady is going to leave behind her possessions, particularly
12:52
Speaker 1: things like a phone that can keep you safe. At
12:55
Speaker 1: least you have the ability at your fingertips to dial
12:59
Speaker 1: nine one one or hit speed dial and hit somebody
13:02
Speaker 1: that is you know, that can take care of you.
13:04
Speaker 1: You're just going to wander off on this roadway, which
13:08
Speaker 1: kind of painting the picture here. This for those of
13:11
Speaker 1: you that might not be familiar when you see the
13:13
Speaker 1: blue Grass Parkway, it's you know, it varies in lane
13:17
Speaker 1: size periodically, but for the most part, it is a
13:20
Speaker 1: state road that has four lanes. You know, you got
13:23
Speaker 1: two on one side going going one direction, you got
13:25
Speaker 1: two on the other side. It's going to have a median,
13:28
Speaker 1: you know, and it's going to have shoulders on the
13:29
Speaker 1: side of the road, and every now and then you'll
13:31
Speaker 1: come across a bit. It's not like necessarily being on
13:33
Speaker 1: an inner state per se, but it's a well traveled area.
13:37
Speaker 1: You're going to catch the attention. You know, when you
13:39
Speaker 1: think about kidnapping, you think about somebody going off the road.
13:42
Speaker 1: You remember, recently we've covered this horrible case out out
13:46
Speaker 1: of Oklahoma where these women were taken down and that's
13:49
Speaker 1: a that's kind of a that's an out of the
13:51
Speaker 1: way location. All right, We're not talking about that with
13:55
Speaker 1: the Blue Bluegrass Parkway. We're talking about you know, this
13:57
Speaker 1: thing's got traffic on it. I mean there are will
13:59
Speaker 1: move back and forth. I think it runs kind of
14:02
Speaker 1: from the south west up to the northeast, and so
14:06
Speaker 1: it's a way to get from point to point that
14:09
Speaker 1: you would see semi trailers on. I mean, you'd see
14:12
Speaker 1: campers on everyday traffic on. It's not like a farm
14:16
Speaker 1: road like in Oklahoma.
14:18
Speaker 2: Right, And that's why I'm saying, if her car was
14:20
Speaker 2: found two days after she's reported missing, there should have
14:25
Speaker 2: been based on the traffic and based on who's driving
14:28
Speaker 2: along the Bluegrass Parkway on a regular basis, somebody would
14:32
Speaker 2: have seen the car. They would have reported it. Hey,
14:35
Speaker 2: I just saw a Crystal's car. It's not only they
14:37
Speaker 2: don't know one another, so there's a lot here to
14:40
Speaker 2: be concerned with. But based on her car is found
14:43
Speaker 2: with a flat tire and all of her personal belongings
14:45
Speaker 2: inside two days after she's reported missing, and by the way,
14:49
Speaker 2: she's still missing. She went missing in twenty fifteen. They
14:52
Speaker 2: have not found Crystal Rogers Joe.
14:54
Speaker 1: I know. And that's a huge chilling piece to this day,
14:58
Speaker 1: is that after all of the she's nowhere to be found.
15:02
Speaker 1: And I got to ask a question, do women like
15:06
Speaker 1: Crystal Rogers just merely vanish, vaporize, disappear into thin air.
15:13
Speaker 1: I think not. In forensic science, we do what we
15:32
Speaker 1: do in order to identify, collect and analyze evidence, We
15:40
Speaker 1: generate reports, and we present it to those interested parties
15:44
Speaker 1: to do with as they wish. When I'm thinking about
15:47
Speaker 1: a car like this that's found along a roadway, I'm
15:52
Speaker 1: gonna want to know if the owner of the primary
15:55
Speaker 1: operator is absent from that vehicle, what what wound up
15:59
Speaker 1: bringing this vehicle to a halt in this particular location.
16:02
Speaker 1: Is there damage to the vehicle? I think that you
16:03
Speaker 1: had mentioned, Dave, that there was a flat tire. Forensically,
16:07
Speaker 1: I don't want to know about the origin of that
16:09
Speaker 1: flat tire, because you know, you can catch a nail,
16:12
Speaker 1: and the Lord knows, I've caught things off of roadways,
16:14
Speaker 1: angle iron, all kinds of stuff that have you know,
16:17
Speaker 1: split very expensive tires from me created or has a
16:22
Speaker 1: tire been punctured like on the sidewall by something that
16:26
Speaker 1: I don't know, ice picked knife, was it slashed? You know,
16:32
Speaker 1: we've heard stories of people going through apartment parking lots,
16:35
Speaker 1: you know, where they'll take a knife in our razor
16:37
Speaker 1: slash people's tires, and so there's a lot to be gleaned.
16:42
Speaker 1: But if you've got people that are living together, if
16:44
Speaker 1: you're looking for a suspect, there is like DNA evidence
16:47
Speaker 1: that's within the cabin of vehicle that you would expect
16:50
Speaker 1: to find within that vehicle. Doesn't mean that those people
16:54
Speaker 1: might not be associated with with their missing, but you
16:57
Speaker 1: would want to find something that is going to be
16:59
Speaker 1: an outlier, maybe perhaps somebody that's unexpected unidentified DNA or
17:05
Speaker 1: blood evidence that's contained within here. And I just don't
17:08
Speaker 1: know to this point that they've really ever opened up
17:11
Speaker 1: about that day.
17:12
Speaker 2: There are a lot of issues surrounding the disappearance of
17:14
Speaker 2: Crystal Rogers and the murder of Tommy Ballads, her father,
17:17
Speaker 2: sixteen months later that have to do with a cross
17:21
Speaker 2: section of police, Sheriff's Department, the Kentucky State Police, and
17:25
Speaker 2: the FBI. And I don't throw that out there in
17:28
Speaker 2: a minimalistic way because first things first, Brooks hout He
17:33
Speaker 2: is the significant other of Crystal Rogers when she goes missing.
17:36
Speaker 2: They're living together, they have a two and a half
17:38
Speaker 2: year old toddler, and they have Crystal Rogers for their children.
17:41
Speaker 2: The Brooks house is the male parent of the household,
17:45
Speaker 2: and when she goes missing, he doesn't report her missing.
17:49
Speaker 2: Her mother has to report her missing. Now, Brooks, how
17:52
Speaker 2: would be the first person you would want to talk
17:54
Speaker 2: to hey man, tell us what happened? Yep, His brother,
17:58
Speaker 2: brooks Howe has an older named Nick how Nick how
18:04
Speaker 2: works as a police at the time as a police
18:07
Speaker 2: officer for the Bardstown Police Department. So keep these separate.
18:13
Speaker 2: The Bardstown Police Department and the Sheriff's Apartment are two
18:16
Speaker 2: separate entities. They don't always work together. Sheriff's Department serves
18:20
Speaker 2: an entire county Bardstown Police Bardstown City. The Sheriff's Department
18:25
Speaker 2: is in charge of this case due to where everything
18:28
Speaker 2: was found, and so brooks Howck is brought in for
18:31
Speaker 2: an interview. What happened? Brooks tell us about you know,
18:35
Speaker 2: when did you last see Crystal Rogers because he is
18:38
Speaker 2: the last person to see her. He is having a
18:43
Speaker 2: conversation with Sheriff's department investigator and during the interview, brooks
18:50
Speaker 2: how receives a phone call from his brother, Nick, the
18:54
Speaker 2: police officer with Bardstown Police Department. Now, Joe and we
19:00
Speaker 2: actually have the interview. You and I have both watched
19:03
Speaker 2: the interview with Brooks Hawck and the Sheriff's Department where
19:06
Speaker 2: he lays out his story which we're going to share
19:08
Speaker 2: with you. But During the interview, Nick how calls brooks Hawk,
19:13
Speaker 2: and brooks Howk asks, Hey, you mind if I take this,
19:16
Speaker 2: it's I need to take it, and so he answers
19:18
Speaker 2: the phone. We only hear brooks Howke's sided the conversation. Yep,
19:24
Speaker 2: but I'm going to tell you to me. It sounded scripted,
19:30
Speaker 2: it sounded planned out. It sounded like brooks Hawk was
19:34
Speaker 2: trying to get his version of events on the record
19:37
Speaker 2: without ever being challenged. He knows everything's being recorded, and
19:42
Speaker 2: so there was one thing that he says on this
19:44
Speaker 2: phone call with his brother Nick. He says, Nick, I
19:47
Speaker 2: don't think she ran off with another man, and you're
19:49
Speaker 2: not going to convince me of it. They're not going
19:51
Speaker 2: to convince me of it, you know. And I'm like,
19:53
Speaker 2: so he's laying the guilty party, always lays out another
19:57
Speaker 2: option for where the person is, and so is that
20:00
Speaker 2: out there? But then he says, well, Nick, I'm just
20:03
Speaker 2: here to help. I just they need my help. I
20:05
Speaker 2: just want to help him find her. And if you
20:07
Speaker 2: say I need to leave because they're gonna jam me up,
20:10
Speaker 2: I'll leave. If you're telling me to leave.
20:11
Speaker 1: I'll leave.
20:12
Speaker 2: And so he has the excuse, Hey, my brother. The
20:14
Speaker 2: police officer just told me to end this because you
20:16
Speaker 2: guys are going to try to frame me, and he leaves,
20:19
Speaker 2: not before the police tell him, well, you're the main suspect.
20:22
Speaker 2: You got holes in your story, man Nick out By
20:25
Speaker 2: the way, the older brother lost his job by doing that.
20:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, I call. Yeah. It seems staged to me, at least,
20:32
Speaker 1: it reminded me back when Saturday Night Live was something
20:36
Speaker 1: that I watched during the days of John Lovetz. He
20:40
Speaker 1: did an over the top presentation of being an actor
20:43
Speaker 1: and he would do his hand up in there and
20:45
Speaker 1: say I am an actor, you know, like that and
20:48
Speaker 1: that kind of it's kind of smacked of that. Oh yeah,
20:51
Speaker 1: and listen, let me let me kind of interject this
20:54
Speaker 1: into the conversation.
20:55
Speaker 2: I thought, you're going to go with Morgan Fairchade.
20:58
Speaker 1: No, No, not that one. No, I'm going to do
21:00
Speaker 1: that one. But the idea that he's bold enough to
21:03
Speaker 1: have this conversation and some people I've heard, actual people
21:07
Speaker 1: that have criticized the police officer for allowing him to
21:10
Speaker 1: take that phone call. Let me tell you something. Police
21:14
Speaker 1: are about harvesting data information and anything that you say,
21:21
Speaker 1: anything that you say, anything that you say or do.
21:26
Speaker 1: Where it's being taped or recorded, it has potential utility
21:31
Speaker 1: for their case. So the fact that he allowed him
21:36
Speaker 1: to have this conversation. If he had said, no, put
21:39
Speaker 1: it away, we're talking right now, we want to continue
21:44
Speaker 1: this conversation, we wouldn't have even though it's a one
21:47
Speaker 1: sided conversation that he was having on the phone, we
21:50
Speaker 1: wouldn't have that. It wouldn't be documented. And I think
21:53
Speaker 1: for investigators, and certainly now in the wake of you know,
21:57
Speaker 1: Loath these many years later, we have the FBI that's
22:00
Speaker 1: involved in the case. You think those guys have looked
22:03
Speaker 1: and looked at that video and listened to it.
22:06
Speaker 2: That video was four days after after her disappearance. By
22:09
Speaker 2: the way, it was not even a week. It was
22:11
Speaker 2: four days. Okay, they've got Brooks in there, four days
22:16
Speaker 2: after she goes missing, and they're getting him his story.
22:20
Speaker 2: This is the first thing police have to do. You're
22:23
Speaker 2: a suspect because you're in the relationship with her, but
22:25
Speaker 2: you got your last person that saw her, you know,
22:27
Speaker 2: and we need to know where you were, what you
22:29
Speaker 2: two were doing, and they're gonna get that story. And
22:33
Speaker 2: this is the story you're held That's why attorneys say,
22:35
Speaker 2: do not talk to police ever, because whatever you say
22:40
Speaker 2: is now your story. That's my story, and I'm sticking
22:43
Speaker 2: to it. Okay, you're anything you change from here on
22:46
Speaker 2: out proves you're a liar, right so.
22:49
Speaker 1: And that's the way, that's the way it would roll
22:51
Speaker 1: roll on. But you know, looking at this on the
22:53
Speaker 1: flip side as well, you know we talked about the intimacy,
22:56
Speaker 1: level of intimacy with this relationship. Let me tell you something.
23:01
Speaker 1: If this was my precious wife, i'd, you know, first off,
23:08
Speaker 1: they'd have to keep me chained to the chair because
23:10
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be out beating the bushes looking. I'm gonna
23:12
Speaker 1: be up and down, up and down that parkway out there,
23:15
Speaker 1: the Bluegrass Parkway, which you and I have both now
23:20
Speaker 1: sworn off of. I'm gonna be beating the bushes out there,
23:23
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna be looking. I'm gonna assemble friends, I'm
23:26
Speaker 1: gonna do everything that I can and look, let the
23:29
Speaker 1: hide come with the hairs, they say. I'm gonna be
23:31
Speaker 1: going through this area as rigorously as I possibly can
23:36
Speaker 1: to try to track down this person that I've got
23:39
Speaker 1: a child with, that I've shared a life with. But
23:44
Speaker 1: the problem is, Dave, is that we don't see this
23:46
Speaker 1: coming through. We don't see that kind of evangelical zeal here.
23:51
Speaker 1: And for an investigator that's digging into this, and when
23:55
Speaker 1: you've got somebody that I'm sure they picked up on
23:57
Speaker 1: pretty quickly, it seems to be kind of play acting,
24:00
Speaker 1: if you will. There are a lot more unanswered questions
24:06
Speaker 1: to come. In Alabama. We're known here and to maybe
24:31
Speaker 1: a lesser degree, Alabama has quite the reputation though for
24:34
Speaker 1: severe weather. It's a part and parcels living here, and
24:38
Speaker 1: you know, we deal with tornadoes and all those sorts
24:40
Speaker 1: of things. But the old adage that comes to mind
24:43
Speaker 1: for me when you talk about storms. I know it's
24:46
Speaker 1: a metaphor for life, but the idea of lightning never
24:51
Speaker 1: striking twice in the same location, there is some truth
24:56
Speaker 1: to that, I think, both as a metaphor and there
25:00
Speaker 1: are people out there that have been struck by light
25:02
Speaker 1: in multiple times. But for the most part, to have
25:05
Speaker 1: two critical events happen in such close proximity. And I'm
25:10
Speaker 1: talking about Crystal Rogers and I'm talking about her daddy, Tommy. Dave,
25:15
Speaker 1: what are the odds that this that this could actually occur?
25:20
Speaker 1: And here's that. Here's our favorite roadway again. I've got
25:22
Speaker 1: to see it again, the Parkway, the Bluegrass Parkway. You know,
25:26
Speaker 1: these these two events happen in proximity to this roadway.
25:30
Speaker 1: That's that's why it seems cursed to me almost it is.
25:34
Speaker 2: And to get to Tommy Ballard, Crystal Rogers father, sixteen
25:39
Speaker 2: months after she's missing, now I want to go back
25:41
Speaker 2: very quickly. Brooks How in a relationship with Crystal Rogers.
25:45
Speaker 2: They have a two and a half year old toddler. Now,
25:47
Speaker 2: as part of his story for what he was doing
25:50
Speaker 2: when they last saw each other, brooks How told police
25:53
Speaker 2: that he actually he and Crystal Rogers were at his
25:55
Speaker 2: mom's farm. Okay, at brooks House's mom and at midnight,
26:02
Speaker 2: we're talking in the middle of the night, that's what
26:04
Speaker 2: he told. They were just out walking around. Now the
26:08
Speaker 2: officer is at the toddler's two and a half years old.
26:12
Speaker 2: Who goes out to a farm in the middle of
26:14
Speaker 2: the night with a two and a half year old
26:16
Speaker 2: nobody because they can't walk really without you know, you
26:20
Speaker 2: can't see there's just a lot wrong with his story.
26:24
Speaker 2: But you have to look at his story and figure
26:27
Speaker 2: out what's he trying to spend Is he trying to
26:30
Speaker 2: set himself up as being at the farm property in
26:33
Speaker 2: the middle of the night in case somebody saw, Because
26:37
Speaker 2: that's what it sounds like now. Early on, they brought
26:41
Speaker 2: out tracker dogs to these different sites that Brooks Houck
26:45
Speaker 2: has mentioned, including the farm, because they wanted to track
26:47
Speaker 2: Crystal Rogers. You know, did they pick Crystal up out
26:50
Speaker 2: at the farm? Well, they did. These dogs tracked Crystal
26:55
Speaker 2: Rogers out at brooks House's mom's farm without any trouble
27:00
Speaker 2: at all. But you know what they didn't do. The
27:02
Speaker 2: dogs went were the same dogs that tracked Crystal Rogers'
27:06
Speaker 2: body out at the farm. They were also brought to
27:10
Speaker 2: her car on Bluegrass Parkway to see did she get
27:13
Speaker 2: out of that car and walk? Those same dogs malfunctioned
27:17
Speaker 2: and couldn't pick up a scent. So they can pick
27:20
Speaker 2: her scent up at the farm, but they can't pick
27:23
Speaker 2: her scent up at her car on the Bluegrass Parkway.
27:28
Speaker 2: What does that tell you? Okay, so here we go.
27:33
Speaker 2: We know she was at the park because we know
27:35
Speaker 2: that's what they were told. We also know that Nick
27:37
Speaker 2: how tells his brother Brooks get out of there don't
27:40
Speaker 2: talk to the Sheriff's department. So now Nick, how wait,
27:44
Speaker 2: why are you telling your brother to not do this?
27:45
Speaker 2: This is an unwritten rule. You don't do this, man.
27:48
Speaker 2: So now Nick Hawk is in trouble with his boss.
27:51
Speaker 2: He's also now a suspect because why is he doing
27:54
Speaker 2: this with his brother? So here we go. They can't
27:57
Speaker 2: find Crystal Rogers anywhere. They've got signs they keep putting up,
28:01
Speaker 2: and you know what, somebody goes around town and takes
28:03
Speaker 2: these signs down. Joe, Crystal Rodgers is missing. They have
28:06
Speaker 2: this huge bourbon festival. Bartstown is like the Bourbon capital
28:09
Speaker 2: of the world, right Bartstown, Kentucky, for crying out loud,
28:12
Speaker 2: and they have thousands of people that come into Bartstown
28:15
Speaker 2: and the people they were really trying to find Crystal Rogers.
28:18
Speaker 2: Help us find she's missing. This mother of five, thirty
28:21
Speaker 2: five years old is missing. Police help, and they're putting
28:23
Speaker 2: signs everywhere so that everybody, the thousands of people that
28:26
Speaker 2: come to the festival will be able to help us
28:28
Speaker 2: find Crystal. But you know what, somebody, somebody is taking
28:34
Speaker 2: the flyers down, taking the signs down. Right before all
28:38
Speaker 2: these thousands of be able to get to they're taking
28:39
Speaker 2: them down? Who would do that?
28:41
Speaker 1: What kind of monster takes those down? Who could be
28:43
Speaker 1: that bold? Or who could be who could be that
28:46
Speaker 1: emboldened in order to do this? And the fact that
28:50
Speaker 1: you know, she seems literally to vanish into thin air.
28:54
Speaker 1: M h. I think relative to the car, did the
28:56
Speaker 1: dogs actually, as you had said, function out there had
29:01
Speaker 1: to have or or or was the car driven out
29:07
Speaker 1: there without her presence? And they've worked before? So what
29:13
Speaker 1: has happened in between those times where they don't you know,
29:17
Speaker 1: they don't get a hit that they're and it's not
29:19
Speaker 1: like you're talking about a single animal, and so what
29:24
Speaker 1: are what are yeah? What are the odds? Now when
29:26
Speaker 1: you begin to think about this, because.
29:27
Speaker 2: She'd be tied and she was there, you would expect
29:30
Speaker 2: that she would have gotten out of the car to
29:31
Speaker 2: at least look, hey, what's going on? You know, and
29:35
Speaker 2: so you would have that they didn't pick up anything, Joe, nothing,
29:38
Speaker 2: the same dogs picked up at the house.
29:40
Speaker 1: It's it's fascinating when you think about that relative to
29:44
Speaker 1: what's and she's not unfamiliar with this area, right, Okay,
29:48
Speaker 1: this is Kith and Kent. You know, she's grown up here,
29:51
Speaker 1: she's got people here. You know that she's going to
29:56
Speaker 1: know where to go or you know, know how to
29:59
Speaker 1: get access to She has a phone.
30:01
Speaker 2: Her cell phone is found in the car for crying
30:03
Speaker 2: out loud. You mentioned it earlier. She could have called
30:06
Speaker 2: nine to one one if anything, you know, But I
30:09
Speaker 2: want to get to something very quickly because Nick How
30:11
Speaker 2: brooks Howk's older brother, he's a police officer, Bardstown Police.
30:14
Speaker 2: He tells his brother to leave that don't talk to
30:16
Speaker 2: the cop anymore. So after that his boss brings him in.
30:20
Speaker 2: They read in the riot Egg. By the way, Nick
30:22
Speaker 2: How gets fired three or four months later. We can't
30:26
Speaker 2: tolerate this because they set him up for a polygraph.
30:29
Speaker 2: They bring in brooks How. Nick How, We're gonna get
30:32
Speaker 2: you guys on a polygraph. You're telling the truth, okay,
30:33
Speaker 2: no worries. So Nick How comes in and he fails
30:38
Speaker 2: miserably on this polygraph test and they basically call him out.
30:42
Speaker 2: You know, we know you know more than what you're
30:43
Speaker 2: telling us. And he has told nick How is told
30:48
Speaker 2: we use luminol on the trunk of your squad car
30:51
Speaker 2: and it lit up like chernobyl. That's the phrase they used.
30:54
Speaker 2: It lit up like Chernobyl. So I don't know if
30:58
Speaker 2: they were saying that and true or if they were
31:00
Speaker 2: saying it to trip him up. I don't know, but
31:03
Speaker 2: we do know this Crystal Rogers still hasn't been found
31:06
Speaker 2: in sixteen months after she goes missing. Her dad. Tommy Ballard,
31:11
Speaker 2: he's with his It's early in the morning. He's with
31:14
Speaker 2: his twelve year old son, grandson rather, and they're gonna
31:18
Speaker 2: go hunting. A pretty common occurrence for those who like
31:22
Speaker 2: the outdoors that live around Bartstown, Kentucky. So Tommy Ballard
31:26
Speaker 2: has his hunting rifle and his twelve year old grandson
31:30
Speaker 2: and they're on their own property, right. Yeah, And somehow
31:36
Speaker 2: in the early morning hours, if I'm not mistaken, it
31:38
Speaker 2: was around six am. Yes, and somehow, someway, Tommy Ballard
31:47
Speaker 2: is shot in the chest from a rifle that can't
31:52
Speaker 2: be seen from anywhere.
31:54
Speaker 1: Yep. Let me hang on. Let me ask you something
31:58
Speaker 1: real quick. First, blush here, what does that tell you
32:01
Speaker 1: about the individual that fired this weapon? And yeah, and
32:05
Speaker 1: and it also goes to familiarity. Oh buddy, yeah, you
32:09
Speaker 1: know so that you have to know points of access.
32:11
Speaker 1: Here's here's another bit here that's kind of it is.
32:17
Speaker 1: It truly is, and you have to understand the utility
32:20
Speaker 1: of those of those perspectives. When we're working a shooting
32:23
Speaker 1: scene from a reconstruction standpoint, we consider if say you've
32:30
Speaker 1: got uh, Tommy who has been shot, you're going to
32:36
Speaker 1: pull You're going to pull these kind of lines of
32:39
Speaker 1: sight that like a wagon wheel, the spokes of a
32:43
Speaker 1: wagon wheel kind of radiate out from his body. Okay,
32:46
Speaker 1: but you have to consider, and this is something that
32:48
Speaker 1: we assess at autopsy, kind of the ankle from which
32:52
Speaker 1: this round struck him. That's where the grandson's testimony, our statement.
32:58
Speaker 1: Let's put it to you that way, you know, put
33:00
Speaker 1: it out there that way. What position were you and
33:04
Speaker 1: grandad in when you were walking and he fell, Because
33:10
Speaker 1: you might actually depend upon the distance. He may have
33:13
Speaker 1: seen him fall first before he heard the report of
33:15
Speaker 1: the weapon, or he may have heard the report of
33:16
Speaker 1: the weapon. He's going to turn his head and then
33:18
Speaker 1: witness his grandpa maybe gasp, grasp his chest or just
33:23
Speaker 1: fall over graveyard dead right there on the spot. So it,
33:27
Speaker 1: you know, one of the things that you try to
33:29
Speaker 1: assess it a scene, and once you can establish that point,
33:33
Speaker 1: the directionality of the bullet. That's one of the things
33:36
Speaker 1: that we always try to do. You know, you hear
33:38
Speaker 1: about our assessments at autopsy where we talk about we'll say, well,
33:42
Speaker 1: it's from front to rear, around travels from front to rear.
33:46
Speaker 1: It goes from high to low, which means maybe you're
33:50
Speaker 1: in a position of dominance and firing down on a target,
33:53
Speaker 1: or from below to above. Maybe it lists from right
33:56
Speaker 1: to left of the decedent it originated to his rights,
34:00
Speaker 1: and we can actually look at these injuries and give
34:03
Speaker 1: you an idea. But here's the problem with this particular
34:06
Speaker 1: injury that this man has sustained, Dave, is that the
34:09
Speaker 1: range is indeterminate because it's not like somebody walked up
34:14
Speaker 1: to him and fired this round into his chest, where
34:17
Speaker 1: we're going to have soot deposition and all of those
34:20
Speaker 1: things that we'd look for relative to close close gunfire.
34:24
Speaker 1: This is fired at a distance, so the only thing
34:26
Speaker 1: that you're really going to have is this kind of
34:29
Speaker 1: a braided area around the round. And it you know
34:32
Speaker 1: where this originates from, you'll see it. It's kind of
34:35
Speaker 1: red irritated a little area that's around the actual injury itself,
34:39
Speaker 1: and it's because a bullet is spinning through the air
34:42
Speaker 1: and it literally twists the skin like that. That's all
34:45
Speaker 1: you see on these indeterminate.
34:48
Speaker 2: Actually see that in the skin.
34:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you can. And microscopically you can pick up
34:54
Speaker 1: on you take Yeah, you can pick up and take
34:56
Speaker 1: sections of it. And it's demonstrated pretty well. But you
34:59
Speaker 1: can see it with I'll tell you can see it
35:02
Speaker 1: with a hand len it's a magnifying glass. You can
35:04
Speaker 1: actually take it and see it like that once the
35:06
Speaker 1: wound is cleaned of blood and that sort of thing.
35:09
Speaker 1: But the only thing that it really tells you is
35:12
Speaker 1: that it's from an indeterminate distance once you get away,
35:15
Speaker 1: you know, beyond Some people have a variety of different
35:19
Speaker 1: parameters they put on it. You think about thirty six inches,
35:22
Speaker 1: it's generally about the maximum distance. So anything within thirty
35:27
Speaker 1: six inches you might have shot at getting soot depositions.
35:30
Speaker 1: So out beyond about thirty six inches, brother, you can't
35:34
Speaker 1: get nothing. And so it's not going to tell you
35:36
Speaker 1: how the range of fire. But we know that no
35:41
Speaker 1: one was approximating him with this weapon, Like some mystery
35:46
Speaker 1: person appeared in the woods as they're walking down this
35:50
Speaker 1: path and fired the round. Here's another thing too that's
35:53
Speaker 1: interesting about this is that, Dave, you know we were
35:57
Speaker 1: talking about we're talking about the roosters are just way up,
36:00
Speaker 1: all right. This is early early in the day. How
36:04
Speaker 1: is a killer going to know about the timetable involved
36:10
Speaker 1: when you exit out of your home with your grandson.
36:13
Speaker 1: You talk about a total disregard. This might this ranks
36:17
Speaker 1: right up there with one of the more callous things
36:19
Speaker 1: that we've covered, because you're literally murdering this gentleman in
36:24
Speaker 1: front of his twelve year old grandson, just sinking. Let
36:27
Speaker 1: that sink in for a second. Is this is this
36:29
Speaker 1: something that's going to leave his mind? You remember how
36:31
Speaker 1: I was talking about early on, I was talking about
36:33
Speaker 1: memories that I had walking through the woods of my papa.
36:36
Speaker 1: I still remember it to this day. My grandfather was
36:38
Speaker 1: not murdered. You know, this is a time that is
36:42
Speaker 1: marked in this child's mind forever and ever. Amen, you know,
36:45
Speaker 1: moving forward, and so, who's familiar enough with the schedule
36:50
Speaker 1: that Tommy would have had, And going back to Crystal,
36:54
Speaker 1: who's familiar enough with her schedule to get her off
36:58
Speaker 1: the road, if you will, and out of the regular
37:01
Speaker 1: rhythm rhythm you're talking about a lady that has children,
37:06
Speaker 1: five kids. Yeah, she has a very regimented world. This
37:11
Speaker 1: idea that are parents, grandparents, You've got brothers and sisters.
37:15
Speaker 1: You know that if you're the person in charge, baby,
37:19
Speaker 1: you got to keep a time tight timetable and the
37:21
Speaker 1: more elements children that you have in the picture, the
37:26
Speaker 1: tighter your time is. You don't have time for foolishness.
37:29
Speaker 1: So you have to be able to understand who in
37:33
Speaker 1: her world, who in Tommy's world would have had enough
37:36
Speaker 1: of an awareness of what their daily routine was. And
37:40
Speaker 1: back to Tommy, I know I'm kind of running back
37:42
Speaker 1: over the same pass here, but there's so much to
37:44
Speaker 1: unpacked with this case. When you think about time alone,
37:47
Speaker 1: Who in the world would have known that on that
37:50
Speaker 1: particular day, at that particular time, he would have exited
37:53
Speaker 1: from his house with his grandson and begin to trek
37:57
Speaker 1: off into the woods.
37:57
Speaker 2: To hunt from that location.
37:59
Speaker 1: By the way, from that specific location, who would have
38:03
Speaker 1: known it?
38:03
Speaker 2: And by the way, that specific location but right up
38:07
Speaker 2: against the Bluegrass.
38:08
Speaker 1: Parkway access an opportunity and showing up with the tools,
38:13
Speaker 1: showing up with the tools to do the job, being
38:15
Speaker 1: familiar with the terrain. Is there a place you could
38:18
Speaker 1: go and hide? Well, yeah, I mean, oh you look,
38:21
Speaker 1: do me a f don't believe what I'm saying. Next
38:23
Speaker 1: time you're riding down the road and you're on a
38:25
Speaker 1: four lane highway, a state highway, look on the either side,
38:28
Speaker 1: look at the brush line that's there. You can't see
38:30
Speaker 1: what's on the other side. Now, you might come across
38:33
Speaker 1: a field every now and then where it's cleared out,
38:35
Speaker 1: but for the most part, you're going to see pine trees.
38:39
Speaker 1: You might see an occasual oak tree, but you're going
38:41
Speaker 1: to see low level brush, which if you wanted to
38:44
Speaker 1: create a hide, you know, if you put it in
38:47
Speaker 1: the terms of and let's just face it, this is
38:49
Speaker 1: an assassination. I think where that's planned, you have an
38:54
Speaker 1: opportunity to do it. This isn't like some random round, now,
38:57
Speaker 1: is it, Dave that just traveled out of nowhere and
38:59
Speaker 1: have to strike this man in the chest.
39:01
Speaker 2: And it happened on November nineteenth, So we're talking about
39:04
Speaker 2: the early morning hours of a cold November morning in Kentucky.
39:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is right right at the time of year,
39:13
Speaker 1: at least down here in south where most deer season.
39:16
Speaker 1: White tail season kicks off, you know, so you're in
39:19
Speaker 1: that area. Well, he's going out. I guess he's going
39:21
Speaker 1: to try to bag a deer with his grandson. That's
39:23
Speaker 1: probably what they're going to try to do. And they're
39:26
Speaker 1: out there, they're in motion. This is property that he knows.
39:29
Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe he's got salt blocks out on
39:30
Speaker 1: his property. Maybe he has a specific area where, you know,
39:34
Speaker 1: deer going to walk into his field of view and
39:35
Speaker 1: he'll be able to take a deer and his grandson
39:37
Speaker 1: will be able to witness it. I don't know.
39:40
Speaker 2: When you look at this, it says Ballard was preparing
39:43
Speaker 2: for a hunting trip with his twelve year old grandson
39:45
Speaker 2: on family property next to the Bluegrass Parkway in Barstown, Kentucky.
39:49
Speaker 2: An unknown subject fired one shot and hit Ballard in
39:54
Speaker 2: the chest and instantly killed him. Yeah. The gun that
40:01
Speaker 2: the rifle they believe that was used and the murder
40:03
Speaker 2: of Tommy Ballard was once owned by Nick Howck Holy Smokes,
40:08
Speaker 2: the older brother of Brooks Howck. This story continues. These
40:13
Speaker 2: are Brooks Howk has been arrested and charged in the
40:16
Speaker 2: murder of Crystal Rogers, even though they haven't found her.
40:18
Speaker 1: Body.
40:19
Speaker 2: Now, Joe, I have a question. How do you do that?
40:21
Speaker 1: What do they do with you?
40:22
Speaker 2: Do you come into play where the police sit down
40:24
Speaker 2: and say, okay, Professor Morgan, we haven't found the body,
40:28
Speaker 2: but here's what we do have. Can you is there
40:31
Speaker 2: any way you believe this person might still be alive?
40:34
Speaker 2: What do we do here? And we have the body
40:36
Speaker 2: of Tommy Ballard, we do not have the body of
40:37
Speaker 2: Crystal Rodgers.
40:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, and unfortunately, well, I'll say unfortunately this is from
40:43
Speaker 1: a practicality standpoint, there's nothing really that the medical examiner
40:48
Speaker 1: can do in that circumstance if you don't have like
40:52
Speaker 1: we play into our world, plays into a missing individual
40:58
Speaker 1: where they are declared dead. If say, and here's the
41:01
Speaker 1: term that people people get frustrated with it sometimes. But
41:05
Speaker 1: when you have a copious amount of blood at a scene,
41:09
Speaker 1: one of the things that we'll ask the medical examiner
41:11
Speaker 1: is this much blood that we're seeing at the scene,
41:15
Speaker 1: is this compatible with life? And you might look at
41:18
Speaker 1: it and there's really if you have a big blood stain,
41:20
Speaker 1: there's no way to actually calculate the volume. Okay, on
41:24
Speaker 1: carpet and anywhere else, we can speak to that and
41:27
Speaker 1: say Yeah, this, this volume of blood might not be
41:31
Speaker 1: compatible with life today. With Crystal, We're not talking about
41:36
Speaker 1: a volume of blood. We're talking about a woman that
41:39
Speaker 1: has just vanished. And how do people vanish? I think
41:43
Speaker 1: one of the most interesting things about about Crystal's disappearance
41:49
Speaker 1: and continuing absence. You know she has Yeah, as you
41:53
Speaker 1: had mentioned rightly that she's been declared dead at this
41:56
Speaker 1: point in time. This is a homicide. It's been he's
41:59
Speaker 1: been charged with home side and you do not you
42:02
Speaker 1: do not charge with somebody with homicide if you do
42:05
Speaker 1: not believe that subject to in fact be debt. So
42:10
Speaker 1: one of the interesting elements is how do you make
42:12
Speaker 1: a body disappear? Do you have access to heavy equipment?
42:18
Speaker 1: Do you have access to, say, for instance, I don't
42:22
Speaker 1: know tools to create cement with. Do you have access
42:27
Speaker 1: to the ability to render down a body? And when
42:30
Speaker 1: I say that, I'm talking about dismemberment, I'm talking about fire.
42:37
Speaker 1: Do you have the willpower and the tools and the
42:40
Speaker 1: ability to do that? And still, since we're talking twenty fifteen, Dave,
42:50
Speaker 1: as of this recording right now, it's twenty twenty four,
42:55
Speaker 1: a lot of water's passing inder the bridge There's been
42:58
Speaker 1: a lot of people looking for There are rewards out there.
43:03
Speaker 1: There are rewards for both Tommy and for Crystal, And
43:08
Speaker 1: to this point, we don't know really any more than
43:12
Speaker 1: we have when she went missing. But I'll tell you this,
43:17
Speaker 1: the police are still investigating and hopefully at some point
43:21
Speaker 1: in time we're going to see more evidence come to light.
43:25
Speaker 1: We'll be keeping an eye on this case moving forward.
43:27
Speaker 1: I can guarantee you that because this is one of
43:30
Speaker 1: the biggest mysteries that I have covered some time, and
43:35
Speaker 1: we're going to travel down the Bluegrass Parkway one more time.
43:40
Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is body Bags