Latest / DISGRACELAND / Quincy Jones: True or False? His Wild Life and the Stories Behind His Wildest Claims

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Quincy Jones: True or False? His Wild Life and the Stories Behind His Wildest Claims · DISGRACELAND

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Speaker 1: This episode contains content that may be disturbing to some listeners.
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Speaker 1: Please check the show notes for more information.
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Speaker 2: All I ever did was tell the truth. But a
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Speaker 2: man who clearly said some outrageous things. Things about the Beatles,
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Speaker 2: about Michael Jackson, about Frank Sinatra. Claims that amount to
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Speaker 2: musical crimes, fraud, theft, and murder. A man who, despite
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Speaker 2: his statements about these musicians, made some of the greatest
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Speaker 2: music ever put on tape. I'm talking about Quincy Jones. Yes,
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Speaker 2: a man who made great music. Unlike that music I
1:01
Speaker 2: played for you at the top of the show. That
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Speaker 2: wasn't great music. That was a preset loop from my
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Speaker 2: Mellotron called After P and Before R M K 1.
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Speaker 2: I played you that loop because I can't afford the
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Speaker 2: rights to God's Plan by Drake.
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Speaker 1: And why would I play you.
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Speaker 2: That specific slice of I'm sorry, I find Drake to
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Speaker 2: be so damn boring that I can't even find an
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Speaker 2: interesting way to insult him.
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Speaker 1: Cheese, could I afford it?
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Speaker 2: Because that was the number one song in America on
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Speaker 2: January 29th, 2018. And that was the day Quincy Jones
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Speaker 2: started talking to reporters at his advanced age and making
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Speaker 2: outrageous claims nobody asked.
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Speaker 1: For, but that nearly everybody wanted to hear. On this episode, The.
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Speaker 2: Beatles as fraudsters, Michael Jackson as a thief, Frank Sinatra's
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Speaker 2: front seat at the assassination, and the loose lips and
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Speaker 2: unbelievable life of Quincy Jones.
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Speaker 1: I'm Jake Brennan, and this is Disgraceland.
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Speaker 2: During the last years of his life, Quincy Jones, arguably
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Speaker 2: the greatest music producer of all time, made some truly
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Speaker 2: outrageous claims, some involving crimes, musical and otherwise. He said
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Speaker 2: that Michael Jackson stole a lot of songs, and that
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Speaker 2: the Beatles didn't play their instruments, and that Frank Sinatra
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Speaker 2: was the reason that he knew who killed Kennedy. Quincy Jones,
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Speaker 2: age 84, when he gave these interviews to GQ and
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Speaker 2: New York Magazine, was clearly out of fucks to give.
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Speaker 2: He also told interviewers that he once dated Ivanka Trump,
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Speaker 2: a woman 48 years younger than him, and more outrageously,
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Speaker 2: the president's daughter. He also spilled the tea about Marlon
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Speaker 2: Brando's sexual appetite, that he slept with Richard Pryor and
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Speaker 2: Marvin Gaye, and that Brando would quote-unquote fuck a mailbox.
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Speaker 2: These claims, regardless of whether they're true or not, are hysterical,
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Speaker 2: especially when you hear Quincy, or Q as the world
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Speaker 2: universally knows him, tell these stories in his unmistakable voice.
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Speaker 2: These stories, though, they're not directly related to figures from
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Speaker 2: music history, aside from Q's involvement, so I'm less interested
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Speaker 2: in them than I am the claims about Sinatra, The Beatles,
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Speaker 2: and Michael Jackson. It should be noted that after Quincy
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Speaker 2: Jones made this claim about Michael Jackson that he was
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Speaker 2: a musical thief, that the Jackson family pushed back hard.
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Speaker 2: Joe Jackson said that Quincy was jealous of Michael's talent,
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Speaker 2: and an anonymous member of the Jackson clan claimed that
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Speaker 2: Quincy Jones had been in the first stages of dementia
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Speaker 2: when he said these things. Quincy Jones was a lot
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Speaker 2: of things. He lifted himself up from a childhood of
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Speaker 2: poverty through an oftentimes violent and.
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Speaker 1: Racist music industry to create music.
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Speaker 2: That not only sounded like what America really sounded like,
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Speaker 2: but that also changed the way America sounded.
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Speaker 1: More on that later.
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Speaker 2: And Quincy Jones became, as I said before, arguably the
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Speaker 2: greatest music producer of all time. A music producer who said,
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Speaker 2: all I ever did was tell the truth.
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Speaker 1: Was he lying? About Michael? About the Beatles?
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Speaker 2: About Sinatra? Well, before we answer that, we must first
4:54
Speaker 2: look at who Quincy Jones was. Quincy the Light Jones Jr.
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Speaker 2: was born on the south side of Chicago, and he
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Speaker 2: grew up in a neighborhood so violent that it was.
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Speaker 1: Known as the Bucket of Blood.
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Speaker 2: His family moved to Seattle, where Quincy began his music
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Speaker 2: career at the age of 12, playing trumpet, and learning
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Speaker 2: to write arrangements for jazz orchestras. This is where he
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Speaker 2: later met and became friends with 16-year-old Ray Charles, backed
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Speaker 2: Billie Holiday while he was still only 14, and talked
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Speaker 2: his way into a future gig with bandleader Lionel Hampton.
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Speaker 2: Quincy then headed to Boston to attend what would become
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Speaker 2: Berklee College of Music. But at school, there was no action.
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Speaker 2: So Quincy Jones.
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Speaker 1: Then hit the road with Lionel Hampton. And the road
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Speaker 1: was a grind.
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Speaker 2: Eventually, Quincy relocated to the Bebop Center of the Universe
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Speaker 2: in New York City to try his hand as an
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Speaker 2: arranger professionally. And in the Big Apple, his talent took off.
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Speaker 2: But the money was slow to come. So Quincy split
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Speaker 2: for Hollywood. and his career erupted. It is not a
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Speaker 2: stretch to say that Quincy Jones worked with damn near
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Speaker 2: everybody in the business during these years. In New York City,
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Speaker 2: Quincy Jones got down to writing arrangements for Dinah Washington,
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Speaker 2: Sarah Vaughan, Dizzy Gillespie, and others. He performed live on
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Speaker 2: television as part of the Dorsey Brothers band when they
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Speaker 2: backed Elvis Presley in his first television performance. In 1958,
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Speaker 2: he flew to Monaco with Frank Sinatra to conduct Frank's
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Speaker 2: orchestra for Princess Grace. In 1961, Quincy Jones was hired
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Speaker 2: by Mercury Records as the first black vice president of
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Speaker 2: a record label. For Mercury, he wrote and produced a
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Speaker 2: smash number one hit, Leslie Gore's It's My Party. In 1964,
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Speaker 2: Sidney Lumet hired Quincy to score a major motion picture,
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Speaker 2: The Pawnbroker. This led to director Richard Brooks asking Quincy
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Speaker 2: Jones to score the film adaptation of Truman Capote's smash
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Speaker 2: hit True Crime Story, It's My Party.
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Speaker 1: In cold blood, Truman told Richard Brooks.
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Speaker 2: Richard, I don't understand why you've got a Negro doing
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Speaker 2: the music for a film with no people of color
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Speaker 2: in it.
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Speaker 1: Richard Brooks told Truman Capote to fuck off. Q was
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Speaker 1: scoring his film.
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Speaker 2: Q did just that, and Quincy Jones received his first
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Speaker 2: Academy Award nomination. He was later nominated for either Best
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Speaker 2: Score or Best Song for several films, including The Wiz,
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Speaker 2: The Color Purple, and would eventually take home honorary Oscars
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Speaker 2: for his humanitarian efforts and his lifetime contribution to cinema.
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Speaker 2: On top of those two Oscars, Quincy Jones earned 28 Grammys,
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Speaker 2: one Emmy, and one Tony.
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Speaker 1: He's on a short list of EGOT winners that include
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Speaker 1: Steven Spielberg, Elton John, and Rita Moreno. Quincy Jones worked
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Speaker 1: twice as hard as other composers.
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Speaker 2: Most composers, most white composers, scored one film a year.
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Speaker 2: Quincy Jones was black. Quincy Jones had something to prove.
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Speaker 2: He didn't score one film a year. He at least
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Speaker 2: scored two, sometimes three. He once scored eight films in
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Speaker 2: one year. Throughout the 60s and 70s, he worked again
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Speaker 2: with Sinatra, composed TV series themes for his buddies Redd
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Speaker 2: Foxx and Bill Cosby, wrote and produced a song called
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Speaker 2: Soul Bossa Nova that you recognize from Austin Powers. But
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Speaker 2: it wasn't just glitzy Hollywood fun and games, not by
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Speaker 2: a long shot. Quincy Jones collaborated with creative giants, Portier, Peckinpah,
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Speaker 2: and most notably from 1979 to 1987, his production work
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Speaker 2: helped crown the king.
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Speaker 1: Of pop, Michael Jackson.
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Speaker 2: In the 60s, he was active in the civil rights
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Speaker 2: movement in support of Martin Luther King Jr.
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Speaker 1: And then alongside Jesse Jackson.
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Speaker 2: Later, he teamed with Bono to launch the Just Listen
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Speaker 2: Up Foundation to build houses in South Africa and tirelessly
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Speaker 2: advocated in support of the arts to President Barack Obama. Oh,
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Speaker 2: and he also married Norma from Twin Peaks, actress Peggy Lipton.
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Speaker 2: And Quincy was Rashida Jones's dad. You know her as
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Speaker 2: Karen from The Office. And he was Tupac's ex, Kadeda
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Speaker 2: Jones's father, too. But what does any of this have
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Speaker 2: to do with Quincy Jones and his claims that Michael
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Speaker 2: Jackson was a thief, that the Beatles were frauds, that
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Speaker 2: Sinatra was the key to understanding who murdered Kennedy? Well,
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Speaker 2: with that incredible career, Quincy Jones was rewarded special access.
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Speaker 2: And perhaps because of that special access, Quincy gained special insight,
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Speaker 2: special insight to claim, as he did confidently, that he
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Speaker 2: knew who killed Kennedy, and to insinuate that this knowledge
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Speaker 2: came from his relationship with Frank Sinatra. So let's look
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Speaker 2: further into whether or not Quincy Jones was telling the truth.
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Speaker 2: Let's first look into the crime of murder. Long before
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Speaker 2: Quincy Jones wanted to be a musician, he wanted to
9:41
Speaker 2: be a gangster. The Bucket of Blood neighborhood on the
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Speaker 2: south side of Chicago, where he grew up in the 1930s,
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Speaker 2: was controlled by criminals and crooked cops. It was unsafe, uninspiring,
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Speaker 2: and no place for a young boy to grow up.
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Speaker 2: Black gangsters, the Jones Boys, no relationship. ran this black neighborhood.
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Speaker 2: They robbed, stole, fought, and killed brazenly. Young Quincy Jones
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Speaker 2: and his friends watched it all from the urine-stained sidewalks,
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Speaker 2: and they saw black men in pinstripe suits stalking the
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Speaker 2: streets with tommy guns, and the men who crossed them
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Speaker 2: meet their makers. One morning, while on the way to
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Speaker 2: elementary school, Quincy saw a man's body impaled on the
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Speaker 2: iron rung of a telephone pole with an ice pick
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Speaker 2: jammed into his neck. Aside from the racist cops who
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Speaker 2: patrolled his neighborhood, like the notorious two-gun Pete officer who
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Speaker 2: made his living shooting little black kids in the back
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Speaker 2: with his twin revolvers, the gangsters were the only role
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Speaker 2: models that Quincy Jones had at that young age. And
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Speaker 2: as he recalls it, back in the 30s, with what
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Speaker 2: limited exposure he had beyond the violent corner of the
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Speaker 2: world where he grew up, aside from his hardworking handyman father,
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Speaker 2: there literally were no black men for him to look
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Speaker 2: up to. That all changed when Quincy Jones and his
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Speaker 2: family moved to Seattle when he was 10 and shortly
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Speaker 2: afterward found music. In 1943, Quincy Jones' family relocated to Seattle,
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Speaker 2: and it was there that he took up trumpet. As
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Speaker 2: a young teenager, Quincy immersed himself in Seattle's jazz nightlife
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Speaker 2: and taught himself how to arrange music. After high school,
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Speaker 2: he headed east to Boston and then to Manhattan. But
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Speaker 2: even while learning from bebop giants, Quincy wanted more, so
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Speaker 2: he headed to Paris to study with arguably the most
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Speaker 2: important musical educator of the 20th century, Nathalie Boulanger. the
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Speaker 2: woman who taught Igor Stravinsky. He then booked work as
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Speaker 2: a performer, which took him to the Middle East and
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Speaker 2: South America, and eventually all over Europe.
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Speaker 1: As a band leader.
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Speaker 2: All of this experience turned Quincy Jones into a genius
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Speaker 2: arranger and opened doors for him in Hollywood to score films.
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Speaker 2: Those doors wouldn't stay open on their own, however. Quincy
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Speaker 2: Jones would have to use every ounce of his creative
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Speaker 2: genius to keep them that way. Earlier in this story,
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Speaker 2: I mentioned that Quincy Jones changed the way America sounded.
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Speaker 1: This is what I meant.
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Speaker 2: Before Quincy Jones started scoring films, major motion pictures had
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Speaker 2: been scored almost exclusively by white men. Orchestral film scores
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Speaker 2: prior to Quincy Jones were by.
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Speaker 1: Design aspirational sounding.
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Speaker 2: In other words, Film scores prior to Quincy Jones sounded
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Speaker 2: like a romanticized version of what America actually looked and
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Speaker 2: felt like. Quincy Jones was the first film composer to
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Speaker 2: introduce rhythm and blues into motion picture scoring, and thus
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Speaker 2: the first composer to implement truth into the sound of movies.
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Speaker 1: R & B.
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Speaker 2: Music in the mid-60s represented what America actually sounded like.
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Speaker 2: Motown ruled the charts alongside the Beatles, who were heavily
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Speaker 2: influenced by rhythm and blues, as was Elvis Presley and
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Speaker 2: the rest.
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Speaker 1: Of the rock and rollers, white and black.
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Speaker 2: If you drove through an American city in 1966 with
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Speaker 2: the windows down and the radio on, you'd primarily hear
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Speaker 2: R & B or R & B- influenced music. But if
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Speaker 2: you went to the movies, the music you'd hear accompanying
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Speaker 2: the story up on the screen would be orchestral, romantic, aspirational,
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Speaker 2: more akin to classical music than the reality happening out
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Speaker 2: on the streets. Quincy Jones changed what America sounded like.
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Speaker 2: by infusing his orchestral scores with R & B influences.
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Speaker 2: And for the first time in the history of movies,
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Speaker 2: the sound of the story sounded like what life for
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Speaker 2: most Americans actually felt like. America at its most violent
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Speaker 2: with Quincy's score for In Cold Blood, its most racist
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Speaker 2: with Quincy's score for In the Heat of the Night,
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Speaker 2: at its most absurd with Bob and Carol and Ted
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Speaker 2: and Alice, and later on television, at its most comical,
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Speaker 2: with Quincy's theme for Sanford and Son. Quincy Jones made
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Speaker 2: movies sound the way that America felt at the time.
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Speaker 2: It's a technique that most every notable composer after Quincy
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Speaker 2: Jones has utilized, deploying reality over aspiration in film composition,
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Speaker 2: and by extension, creating a permanent record for future generations
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Speaker 2: to roll back the tape to hear what America really
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Speaker 2: sounded like. The success of Quincy Jones' career as a
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Speaker 2: film scorer and arranger led to incredible opportunities, most notably
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Speaker 2: for the purposes of this story, to his collaboration with
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Speaker 2: the man who would become the greatest Italian-American entertainer of
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Speaker 2: all time, Francis Albert Sinatra. Quincy Jones didn't know exactly
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Speaker 2: who the two large Italian men were who were escorting
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Speaker 2: him through the Sands Casino. These were Frank's guys, or
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Speaker 2: more specifically, they were body men. Muscle that Frank Sinatra
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Speaker 2: had hired out from the boys back in Chicago. Sam Giancana,
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Speaker 2: one of America's most powerful mafia bosses, had a covert
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Speaker 2: financial interest in the Sands Hotel and Casino. Giancana ran
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Speaker 2: the skim off the Sands for the mob in a
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Speaker 2: legal cash windfall that brought in millions. But Quincy Jones
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Speaker 2: didn't know anything about that at the time. All he
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Speaker 2: knew was that his new best friend, Frank Sinatra, was
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Speaker 2: part owner of the Sands Hotel and Casino, and that
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Speaker 2: he and Frank were in town with Count Basie to
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Speaker 2: cut a live album with Quincy conducting Basie's orchestra through
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Speaker 2: an entire set of tunes he'd arranged.
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Speaker 1: As Frank would say, cuckoo.
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Speaker 2: But this was the mid-60s, and Las Vegas was hostile
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Speaker 2: to Blacks, even if their names were up there on
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Speaker 2: the marquee with Frank Sinatra's. Blacks still had to eat
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Speaker 2: in the casino kitchens with the help. And it didn't
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Speaker 2: matter if you were Sammy Davis Jr. himself or Harry
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Speaker 2: Belafonte or Lena Horne. You weren't staying in the casino hotels.
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Speaker 2: You were staying in the Black hotels across the tracks.
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Speaker 2: But Frank Sinatra... wasn't having it. Frank hired a mob-connected
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Speaker 2: bodyguard for each member of Basie's 18-piece orchestra, including, of course,
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Speaker 2: the Count himself and Q. He then assembled Giancana's muscle
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Speaker 2: and told him that if anybody even looks funny in
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Speaker 2: any member of this band, break both of their fucking legs.
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Speaker 2: Giancana's guys would see to it that if any of
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Speaker 2: the racist locals got lippy or tough, They'd get sorted
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Speaker 2: out Vegas-style, meaning out in the desert, shot in the mouth,
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Speaker 2: and left to rot in shallow graves.
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Speaker 1: Needless to say, this did not happen.
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Speaker 2: And so, Quincy Jones and Count Basie and all the
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Speaker 2: members of the Basie Orchestra.
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Speaker 1: Had their run of Vegas.
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Speaker 2: The result was one of the greatest live albums of
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Speaker 2: all time, Sinatra at the Sands with Count Basie and
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Speaker 2: the orchestra, arranged and conducted by Quincy Jones. an album
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Speaker 2: that was made possible in part due to Frank Sinatra's
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Speaker 2: connection to the mafia, an organization Quincy Jones would later
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Speaker 2: insinuate was responsible for the killing of President John F. Kennedy. So,
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Speaker 2: did Quincy Jones' relationship with Frank Sinatra burden him with
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Speaker 2: the knowledge of who killed JFK? Before we can answer that,
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Speaker 2: we have to look into another claim by Mr. Jones,
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Speaker 2: this one concerning the crime of artistic theft. Did Michael Jackson,
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Speaker 2: who was without a doubt an otherworldly talent, and who
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Speaker 2: Quincy Jones worked with on all three of his seminal
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Speaker 2: albums as producer, Off the Wall, Thriller, and Bad, did
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Speaker 2: Michael Jackson steal, quote-unquote, a lot of songs?
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Speaker 1: Well, let's find out. The muse comes.
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Speaker 2: Differently to different artists at different times. Sometimes she smacks
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Speaker 2: you in the face. Sometimes she just nods in a
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Speaker 2: certain direction. Other times she shakes you by the shoulders.
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Speaker 2: Inspiration gets expressed both directly and indirectly. Most artists are
19:08
Speaker 2: careful not to think about it too much. They take
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Speaker 2: it as it comes, like George Harrison, who didn't question
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Speaker 2: the melody for My Sweet Lord until it was pointed
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Speaker 2: out to him in court that his melody sounded exactly
19:20
Speaker 2: like He's So Fine.
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Speaker 1: By the Chiffons.
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Speaker 2: In 1981, George was forced to pay a settlement of
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Speaker 2: more than half a million dollars for subconscious plagiarism. And
19:31
Speaker 2: then there's the story of George's ex-bandmate, John Lennon, who sang, John,
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Speaker 2: cheeky bastard that he was, was nodding to his hero,
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Speaker 2: Chuck Berry, and his song, You Can't Catch Me.
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Speaker 1: But Morris Levy didn't care.
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Speaker 2: About artistic nods or the muse. And Morris owned the
19:54
Speaker 2: publishing rights to Chuck Berry's song. And he threatened to
19:57
Speaker 2: bring John Lennon to court, claiming that he was owed royalties.
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Speaker 2: John agreed to record three songs from Levy's publishing catalog
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Speaker 2: and was ultimately forced to pay Levy $ 1, 000. nearly $ 700, 000
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Speaker 2: in damages. Now, a lot has been said about these cases.
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Speaker 1: One thing that I.
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Speaker 2: Always say is that great musicians are criminals. Now, Steve
20:19
Speaker 2: Jobs has said something else. He said, Steve thought that
20:25
Speaker 2: he was appropriating that line from Pablo Picasso, but Steve
20:29
Speaker 2: was wrong.
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Speaker 1: Picasso never said that.
20:32
Speaker 2: T.S.
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Speaker 1: Eliot said something similar.
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Speaker 2: He said, To imitate was shoddy, and to steal was praiseworthy.
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Speaker 2: So let's praise old TS for nicking this phrase from
20:43
Speaker 2: Alfred Tennyson, who said that great poets imitate and improve,
20:47
Speaker 2: whereas small.
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Speaker 1: Ones steal and spoil.
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Speaker 2: Another way of putting all this is immature artists blatantly steal,
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Speaker 2: while mature artists are more skilled at hiding their theft.
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Speaker 1: To me, this sounds too cynical.
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Speaker 2: To me, a great artist like John Lennon works pieces
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Speaker 2: that inspire them into the whole of their own creation
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Speaker 2: in ways that render the original inspiration barely recognizable anymore.
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Speaker 2: Now back to Quincy Jones. Quincy Jones claimed that John
21:17
Speaker 2: Coltrane's masterpiece, Giant Steps, was stolen from Nicholas Sleminski's book
21:22
Speaker 2: on 12-tone theory.
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Speaker 1: It probably was, but you wouldn't recognize it.
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Speaker 2: What you might recognize immediately is Michael Jackson's Mamase Mamasa
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Speaker 2: Mamafusa melody from his 1982 hit, Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'. Now,
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Speaker 2: that's a direct rip from the Cameroonian songwriter and trumpeter
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Speaker 2: Manu Dibango's 1972 composition, Sol Macosa.
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Speaker 1: Michael thought, I guess, that, He could steal that melody
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Speaker 1: and no one would notice. But unlike Coltrane's subterfuge, MJ's,
21:54
Speaker 1: his theft is blatant. Brazen, actually. So, DeBango sued Michael Jackson.
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Speaker 2: He settled out of court for a million dollars and
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Speaker 2: no claim on future royalties. But that's not the song
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Speaker 2: Quincy Jones name-checked when he claimed that Michael Jackson stole
22:12
Speaker 2: a lot of songs. The song Quincy Jones name-checked as
22:21
Speaker 2: an example of Michael Jackson being a creative thief is
22:25
Speaker 2: Donna Summer's State of Independence, which has a bass line
22:29
Speaker 2: that turns up again in Michael's Billie Jean. As Quincy said,
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Speaker 2: the notes don't lie, man. Now, if the Billie Jean
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Speaker 2: bass line is stolen from State of Independence, it's not
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Speaker 2: immediately recognizable. The tempo of the song is radically different.
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Speaker 2: and the feel of State of Independence is more reggae
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Speaker 2: than it is disco-influenced pop. This one isn't as blatant
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Speaker 2: as Michael's theft in Wannabe Startin' Somethin'. In fact, I
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Speaker 2: can barely hear it, and Donna Summer never sued Michael Jackson.
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Speaker 1: This is an.
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Speaker 2: Example of the artist working his inspiration into the whole
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Speaker 2: of his work rather than being as Machiavellian as they come,
23:11
Speaker 2: as Quincy Jones said about Michael Jackson. A better example
23:15
Speaker 2: of Michael Jackson being Machiavellian would be his stealing the
23:18
Speaker 2: ownership of the Beatles' catalog out from under Michael's good
23:21
Speaker 2: friend at the time, Paul McCartney. And Quincy Jones, in
23:25
Speaker 2: those wild interviews toward the end of his life, had
23:28
Speaker 2: some choice words.
23:29
Speaker 1: For the Beatles' bassist.
23:31
Speaker 2: Specifically, that when it came to playing his instrument, Paul McCartney,
23:35
Speaker 2: just like George, John, and Ringo, was a no-playing motherfucker.
23:46
Speaker 1: We'll be right back after this word, word, word.
23:57
Speaker 2: We now have two unanswered questions, sort of. Was Frank
24:01
Speaker 2: Sinatra the key to Q knowing exactly who killed President Kennedy?
24:06
Speaker 2: And was Michael Jackson a creative thief who, as Quincy
24:10
Speaker 2: Jones said, stole a lot of songs? Before we can
24:13
Speaker 2: answer these questions one way or another, We have one
24:16
Speaker 2: final batshit crazy Quincy Jones claimed to investigate. And this
24:20
Speaker 2: one involves the musical crime of fraud. In 2018, Quincy
24:25
Speaker 2: Jones told New York Magazine that his first impression of
24:29
Speaker 2: the Beatles was that they were no playing motherfuckers and
24:33
Speaker 2: that Paul McCartney was the worst bass player I have
24:36
Speaker 2: ever heard. Q then went on to detail his experience
24:40
Speaker 2: with Ringo Starr in the studio. In 1970, Quincy Jones
24:46
Speaker 2: was hired by his friend, the longtime Beatles producer George Martin,
24:51
Speaker 2: to arrange a song for Ringo's solo debut album, Sentimental Journey.
24:55
Speaker 2: In the studio, as Quincy recalled, Ringo struggled to nail
25:00
Speaker 2: a simple four-bar drum part. After three hours of laboring
25:04
Speaker 2: away at this part with no luck, Ringo was encouraged.
25:07
Speaker 1: To take a break.
25:08
Speaker 2: He split from the studio to go grab a beer.
25:11
Speaker 2: As Q's story goes, in Ringo's absence, Quincy and George
25:15
Speaker 2: Martin brought in ace jazz drummer Ronnie Varel to have
25:19
Speaker 2: a go at what Ringo couldn't play. In Quincy's words,
25:23
Speaker 2: Ronnie tore it up and finished Ringo's drum part in
25:27
Speaker 2: 15 minutes. Ringo returned from the pub a few hours later,
25:32
Speaker 2: listened to the drum part that Ronnie had played without
25:34
Speaker 2: knowing Ronnie had been in the studio and said, that
25:37
Speaker 2: didn't sound so bad. To which Quincy thought, yeah, motherfucker,
25:41
Speaker 2: because it ain't you. This experience obviously informed Quincy Jones'
25:46
Speaker 2: opinion of Ringo Starr as a musician. But what proof
25:50
Speaker 2: did Quincy Jones offer about his claim that Paul McCartney
25:53
Speaker 2: was the worst bass player I'd ever heard? None. And
25:59
Speaker 2: this is, of course, an absurd statement. Paul McCartney is
26:03
Speaker 2: not only a great bass player. He's one of the
26:06
Speaker 2: greatest musicians and composers of all time. A giant worthy
26:10
Speaker 2: of being mentioned in the same breath with the biggest
26:13
Speaker 2: and best to ever do it. Mozart, Michael Jackson, and yes,
26:17
Speaker 2: even Quincy Jones. So what was it that informed Quincy Jones'
26:23
Speaker 2: opinion that the Beatles were no playing motherfuckers? Quincy Jones
26:32
Speaker 2: likely first saw the Beatles perform in early 1964, along
26:36
Speaker 2: with the rest of America, when the Beatles invaded the
26:39
Speaker 2: States with their arsenal of early hits, I Want to
26:42
Speaker 2: Hold Your Hand and.
26:43
Speaker 1: She Loves You, among them. These tunes were excellent pop songs.
26:48
Speaker 2: The recordings of which were carefully crafted in the studio
26:51
Speaker 2: by classically trained producer George Martin. Part of Martin's genius
26:56
Speaker 2: was that he allowed the Fab Four to retain their
26:58
Speaker 2: performance imperfections on tape. In I Want to Hold Your Hand,
27:03
Speaker 2: there are numerous points where John and Paul flub the lyrics.
27:07
Speaker 2: In Hold Me Tight, George Harrison strains to reach a
27:10
Speaker 2: high note in the harmony vocal, and the result is
27:13
Speaker 2: less than harmonious. In 1965's Ticket to Ride, Ringo heads
27:17
Speaker 2: into the second verse playing a completely different beat than he.
27:20
Speaker 1: Was in the first.
27:21
Speaker 2: In I'm Looking Through You, drum hits are missed, and
27:24
Speaker 2: there are points where the guitars slip out of tune.
27:27
Speaker 2: To George Martin, fixing these mistakes in the studio would
27:31
Speaker 2: have sacrificed the infectious energy captured on tape.
27:35
Speaker 1: But to seasoned jazz musicians, this move was heresy.
27:39
Speaker 2: Jazz players reasoned that you needn't sacrifice playing for energy
27:43
Speaker 2: because as a musician, it was your duty to perform
27:46
Speaker 2: the songs perfectly and with the correct energy. But this
27:50
Speaker 2: is like comparing apples to carburetors. The Beatles' energy was
27:59
Speaker 2: born from endless hours spent woodshedding their playing in front
28:03
Speaker 2: of violent and rowdy crowds, mainly soldiers and prostitutes at
28:08
Speaker 2: the Star Club in Hamburg's Rieperbahn district. The only way
28:12
Speaker 2: for the band to make it through their Star Club shows,
28:15
Speaker 2: sets that were sometimes six, eight, even ten hours long,
28:19
Speaker 2: was with levity. Levity led to drunkenness and, yes, imperfection.
28:24
Speaker 2: The result of this performance reality was a band that
28:27
Speaker 2: could not only play, but a band that had serious charisma, energy,
28:33
Speaker 2: that George Martin was keen to get down on tape,
28:37
Speaker 2: even if it meant sacrificing some of the perfection of
28:39
Speaker 2: the band's recorded performances. To seasoned jazz musicians, it all
28:45
Speaker 2: amounted to a level of unseriousness. a style of musicianship
28:50
Speaker 2: that would never fly in the Manhattan bebop clubs Quincy
28:53
Speaker 2: Jones and his contemporaries came up in. With their flubbed notes,
28:58
Speaker 2: missed drum hits, forgotten lyrics, and out-of-tune guitars, it's easy
29:03
Speaker 2: to understand how a jazz musician, specifically a master of bebop,
29:08
Speaker 2: would refer to the Beatles.
29:10
Speaker 1: As no-playing motherfuckers.
29:18
Speaker 2: Okay, so what exactly does a no-playing motherfucker or non-playing
29:24
Speaker 2: motherfucker mean? Well, in jazz speak, it's a specific type
29:29
Speaker 2: of contempt reserved not only for musicians who aren't skilled
29:33
Speaker 2: enough technically or who lack feel or authenticity in their playing,
29:38
Speaker 2: but is also meant to call out musicians whose playing
29:41
Speaker 2: does not warrant their commercial success. As Miles Davis said
29:46
Speaker 2: in his autobiography about Steve Miller, I was pissed because
29:49
Speaker 2: I got to open for this non-playing motherfucker just because
29:52
Speaker 2: he had one or two sorry-ass records out.
29:55
Speaker 1: I love Miles, but that was back in 1970.
29:59
Speaker 2: This is 2026 as I record this, and the phrase
30:03
Speaker 2: is back in the lexicon of popular music with the
30:05
Speaker 2: release of Red Hot Chili Peppers bassist Flea's solo jazz.
30:10
Speaker 1: Album, The Excellent Honora.
30:13
Speaker 2: Now, in the lead up to the album's release, Flea
30:15
Speaker 2: went on record about the imposter syndrome that he felt
30:19
Speaker 2: as a rock musician, venturing into jazz with an album
30:22
Speaker 2: he plays trumpet on, alongside some of the best modern
30:25
Speaker 2: jazz musicians.
30:27
Speaker 1: On the planet.
30:28
Speaker 2: Flea said he worried that the band he'd put together
30:31
Speaker 2: would see him, Mr. Uplift Mofo Party Plan, as, quote,
30:35
Speaker 2: a non-playing motherfucker. Is Flea, to use Miles and Quincy's phrase,
30:41
Speaker 2: a non-playing motherfucker?
30:44
Speaker 1: I don't think so. Were the Beatles? Hell no. But
30:48
Speaker 1: was Quincy.
30:49
Speaker 2: Jones on to something bigger with his comments about the Beatles?
30:52
Speaker 2: Were they worse than no-playing motherfuckers?
30:56
Speaker 1: Were they frauds?
31:02
Speaker 2: In 2004, Bernard Purdy, one of the greatest session drummers
31:05
Speaker 2: of all time, a musician who kept time for some
31:08
Speaker 2: of the greatest of all time, James Brown, Aretha Franklin,
31:12
Speaker 2: Hall & Oates, Steely Dan, B.B. King, Al Green, and
31:15
Speaker 2: so many more, including recent recordings with Wolfpack, Bernard Purdy said, quote,
31:21
Speaker 2: There are four drummers.
31:23
Speaker 1: On the Beatles' music. Ringo's not one of them.
31:32
Speaker 2: At various times throughout the course of his life, Bernard
31:34
Speaker 2: Purdy elaborated on his claim that the Beatles were frauds.
31:38
Speaker 2: He took it further by claiming that in the summer
31:41
Speaker 2: of 1963, before the Beatles broke in America in early 1964,
31:44
Speaker 2: that Beatles manager Brian Epstein paid Purdy five figures to
31:50
Speaker 2: play drums on 21 tracks on the first three Beatles
31:53
Speaker 2: albums prior to their release. Hold up. If this isn't
31:59
Speaker 2: the definition of no playing motherfucker, then I don't know
32:02
Speaker 2: what is. Bernard Purdy is claiming Ringo literally did not
32:07
Speaker 2: play drums on a large percentage of Beatles songs on
32:11
Speaker 2: their early albums.
32:12
Speaker 1: But is it true?
32:14
Speaker 2: Nobody from the Beatles has ever commented on Purdy's claims.
32:18
Speaker 2: There's been no denial, which I find curious. However, there's
32:22
Speaker 2: also no record of Brian Epstein being in America prior
32:25
Speaker 2: to November 1963. But just because there's no record of
32:29
Speaker 2: him being here doesn't mean that he didn't make the trip.
32:33
Speaker 2: If I were about to pay one of the best
32:34
Speaker 2: drummers on the planet to surreptitiously replace the drummer's tracks,
32:38
Speaker 2: the drummer in the band that I represented, get him
32:41
Speaker 2: to do all that subterfuge so that we could trick
32:43
Speaker 2: the record-buying public into thinking he was a better drummer, well,
32:47
Speaker 2: I wouldn't actually make a record of my trip.
32:50
Speaker 1: But still, this doesn't prove anything.
32:54
Speaker 2: What I think happened is that Bernard Purdy was hired
32:57
Speaker 2: by Brian Epstein to record replacement tracks for live Beatles
33:01
Speaker 2: albums that were being assembled. Live Beatles albums, recordings from
33:06
Speaker 2: the band's raucous sets in Hamburg.
33:10
Speaker 1: Now, is this fraud? No, not really. Ish, I guess.
33:15
Speaker 2: It was, and to some degree still is, common practice
33:19
Speaker 2: to re-record in the studio different instrumentation, drum parts, guitar solos,
33:25
Speaker 2: even vocals, to enhance the artist's live recordings. Now, what
33:30
Speaker 2: is uncommon is bringing in a ringer to play those
33:34
Speaker 2: parts instead of relying on the band members themselves. Was
33:38
Speaker 2: Bernard Purdy that ringer? It stands to reason that yes,
33:42
Speaker 2: he was. Was Purdy chosen to record those tracks over
33:46
Speaker 2: Ringo because Ringo was a no-playing motherfucker?
33:50
Speaker 1: I don't think so. Not really. You have to remember.
33:54
Speaker 2: By Purdy's timeline, this is the summer of 1963. Ringo
33:59
Speaker 2: Starr had been in the band for less than a
34:02
Speaker 2: year by that point. And it's likely that in the
34:05
Speaker 2: summer of 1963, Beatles management had better things for Ringo
34:10
Speaker 2: Starr to do over in Europe than to fly to
34:13
Speaker 2: America to overdub drum parts. If this happened at all,
34:17
Speaker 2: I'm betting that the decision was made for efficiency's sake
34:21
Speaker 2: and was less a creative decision. Either way, having Purdy
34:25
Speaker 2: play on those tracks, if true, instead of Ringo is
34:28
Speaker 2: still kind of bullshit and, yes, fraudish. Worse, it muddies
34:33
Speaker 2: the greatness of the band and validates Quincy Jones' claim
34:37
Speaker 2: that the Beatles.
34:38
Speaker 1: Were no playing motherfuckers.
34:40
Speaker 2: Again, if this is true. If it's not true, if
34:44
Speaker 2: Bernard Purdy was lying, why didn't the Beatles ever deny
34:48
Speaker 2: his many claims? Why not directly confront the claim and
34:52
Speaker 2: that Ringo's parts were replaced. After all, when Quincy Jones
34:58
Speaker 2: made his statement about Paul McCartney that he was the
35:00
Speaker 2: worst bass player I ever heard, Paul McCartney was anything
35:05
Speaker 2: but quiet. Paul McCartney handled the stovetop in the kitchen
35:15
Speaker 2: of a St. John's Wood home like a Reaper Bond
35:18
Speaker 2: bouncer handled unruly Star Club patrons.
35:21
Speaker 1: Roughly.
35:22
Speaker 2: And with little care. Paul was in a good mood.
35:26
Speaker 2: It was early 2018, a new year, and he was
35:30
Speaker 2: putting the finishing touches on his 17th solo studio album,
35:35
Speaker 2: Egypt Station, an album that Paul would see go to
35:38
Speaker 2: number one on the Billboard charts.
35:42
Speaker 1: But first, there were eggs and chips to make.
35:45
Speaker 2: Paul's favorite dish, simple, humble, utilitarian, just like the best
35:51
Speaker 2: little rock.
35:51
Speaker 1: And roll groups, They got the job done.
35:55
Speaker 2: Paul was grooving around the kitchen to the sounds of St.
35:58
Speaker 2: Vincent's Mass Education. Paul's friend had sent him this album.
36:03
Speaker 1: And he loved it.
36:05
Speaker 2: The twitchy groove went well with the wine. Paul was
36:08
Speaker 2: in a good mood. Then the phone rang. Is this Mr. McCartney? Yes.
36:15
Speaker 2: Quincy would like to speak with you.
36:18
Speaker 1: Unreal. The dude called Sir Paul and put him on hold.
36:23
Speaker 2: Paul didn't really care. The wine was too good, and
36:26
Speaker 2: so was the music. Quincy Jones' voice came through.
36:30
Speaker 1: On the other end of the line. Paul, how you doing, man?
36:33
Speaker 1: I'm doing great. How are you? You motherfucker! Quincy went
36:38
Speaker 1: on the defensive. Paul, I didn't really say that thing.
36:42
Speaker 1: I don't know what happened, man. I never said that.
36:45
Speaker 1: You know I love you guys.
36:47
Speaker 2: Paul then tore into him. If you had said that,
36:50
Speaker 2: you know what I would have said? Fuck you, Quincy Jones.
36:54
Speaker 2: Then they both laughed, exchanged pleasantries, and hung up. Paul
37:00
Speaker 2: went back to his eggs and chips, and Quincy Jones
37:02
Speaker 2: went back to playing defense.
37:05
Speaker 1: He had a couple more phone calls to make. Most importantly,
37:09
Speaker 1: to his attorney.
37:16
Speaker 2: Thank you. Months before Quincy Jones' infamous phone call with
37:38
Speaker 2: Paul McCartney, Quincy Jones was awarded $ 9. 4 million in a
37:42
Speaker 2: lawsuit against Michael Jackson's estate for unpaid royalties. And by 2018,
37:48
Speaker 2: Michael's estate was gearing up for an appeal, an appeal
37:52
Speaker 2: that eventually, in 2020, would reverse $ 6.
37:55
Speaker 1: 9 million of the award from the original lawsuit.
37:59
Speaker 2: And in the end, Quincy Jones walked away with $ 2. 5 million,
38:02
Speaker 2: and who knows how much of that that he actually
38:05
Speaker 2: retained after legal fees. So, It's safe to say that
38:09
Speaker 2: when Quincy Jones gave his infamous interview in 2018 and
38:13
Speaker 2: said that Michael Jackson was a thief and that Michael
38:16
Speaker 2: was as Machiavellian as they come, it's safe to say
38:20
Speaker 2: that Q had a bit of an ax to grind
38:22
Speaker 2: against the Jackson family. But how does this information help
38:27
Speaker 2: us determine whether Quincy Jones was telling the truth about
38:30
Speaker 2: Michael Jackson, that he was a thief? And what, if anything,
38:34
Speaker 2: does it say about Q's other claims that the Beatles
38:37
Speaker 2: couldn't play their instruments? that they were frauds, and that
38:40
Speaker 2: he knew through Sinatra who killed Kennedy, about who was
38:43
Speaker 2: responsible for the president's murder. We'll take one final look
38:48
Speaker 2: at all of these facts and determine if Quincy Jones
38:50
Speaker 2: was being straight with us when he said, all I've
38:53
Speaker 2: ever done is tell the truth. The ring Quincy Jones
39:02
Speaker 2: wore on his finger in the last decades of his life,
39:05
Speaker 2: the one he never took off, the gold signet ring,
39:09
Speaker 2: it sported a family crest, except the family crest didn't
39:13
Speaker 2: represent Quincy Jones' family. It represented Frank Sinatras. Frank left
39:19
Speaker 2: the ring to Quincy when Frank passed, and Q put
39:22
Speaker 2: it on and then never took it off. That's how
39:25
Speaker 2: close the two men were. They loved each other. Another
39:29
Speaker 2: one of Frank's Sinatra's friends also wore a pinky ring,
39:33
Speaker 2: Sam Giancana.
39:34
Speaker 1: Giancana hired his muscle out.
39:36
Speaker 2: To Frank in Vegas years earlier to protect Quincy Jones.
39:40
Speaker 2: Giancana died in 1975. No amount of muscle could have
39:44
Speaker 2: protected him in the end. That's what happens when you
39:46
Speaker 2: know too much. Giancana was killed in cold blood, shot
39:51
Speaker 2: at close range seven times in the back of the head,
39:54
Speaker 2: through his face, his mouth, his neck, and left to
39:58
Speaker 2: bleed out on his kitchen floor with his sausage and
40:01
Speaker 2: peppers still sizzling on the stovetop. Because Sam Giancana, Frank Sinatra's.
40:06
Speaker 1: Friend, knew it all.
40:08
Speaker 2: He knew not only who killed Kennedy, but who pulled
40:12
Speaker 2: the trigger. Because Sam Giancana helped orchestrate the killing. Because
40:17
Speaker 2: Sam Giancana hired the Trigger Man because the mafia was double-crossed.
40:22
Speaker 1: By the Kennedys.
40:24
Speaker 2: Giancana, without a doubt, knew who killed President Kennedy because
40:29
Speaker 2: Giancana made it happen for the commission, the mafia's governing
40:33
Speaker 2: body of nine crime families that controlled and profited from
40:37
Speaker 2: the majority of organized crime in America. In his 2018
40:41
Speaker 2: New York Magazine interview, when asked, what's something you wish
40:45
Speaker 2: you didn't know? Quincy responded with, Who killed Kennedy? And
40:50
Speaker 2: the reporter asked Quincy Jones, who did it? Quincy responded, Giancana,
40:55
Speaker 2: and then elaborated. The connection was there between Sinatra and
40:59
Speaker 2: the mafia and Kennedy. But this is 2026. Everybody knows this.
41:04
Speaker 2: Everybody knows that JFK's father, the powerful businessman Joe Kennedy,
41:09
Speaker 2: cut a deal with the mafia for their help to
41:11
Speaker 2: get his son elected president. The mafia, through Sam Giancana's efforts,
41:16
Speaker 2: would help the Kennedys secure votes in Illinois, and in exchange,
41:20
Speaker 2: when elected, the president would go easy on the mafia.
41:23
Speaker 2: But ultimately, the president and his tenacious and self-righteous little brother,
41:28
Speaker 2: Robert F. Kennedy, did the opposite once they took power.
41:32
Speaker 2: They turned the heat up on the mob. What could
41:35
Speaker 2: Quincy Jones have known that made him so sure? Most
41:40
Speaker 2: mob guys, most connected guys, are just like the rest
41:44
Speaker 2: of us.
41:44
Speaker 1: They talk, they gossip.
41:46
Speaker 2: Frank Sinatra and the guys that he ran with, guys
41:49
Speaker 2: Quincy Jones was around most every time he worked and
41:52
Speaker 2: socialized with Frank Sinatra from the early 60s until the
41:56
Speaker 2: time of his death in 1997, was around a lot
42:00
Speaker 2: of these dudes. No doubt, They gossiped like bored housewives.
42:05
Speaker 1: You see it in.
42:06
Speaker 2: Every mob movie ever made, every mafia book ever written,
42:10
Speaker 2: the loose-lipped gangster on the telephone, in the social club.
42:14
Speaker 1: On the long drive, on a wiretap, going to the mattresses, talking, gossiping.
42:20
Speaker 2: I believe that in the many years he spent in
42:22
Speaker 2: close proximity to Frank Sinatra and the boys, that Quincy
42:26
Speaker 2: picked up specific information about who killed Kennedy pertaining to
42:31
Speaker 2: Sam Giancana's involvement in not just the CliffsNotes version of
42:35
Speaker 2: the story that we all know, which I outlined a
42:37
Speaker 2: moment ago.
42:38
Speaker 1: I think Quincy knew specifics.
42:40
Speaker 2: Otherwise, he wouldn't have said what he said, because at
42:43
Speaker 2: that point in 2018, most anyone who had any interest
42:47
Speaker 2: in the assassination of the president already knew the broad
42:50
Speaker 2: strokes Quincy laid out about Sam Giancana. Quincy likely knew
42:55
Speaker 2: some choice facts that are largely unknown to the public,
42:59
Speaker 2: but can be found in the research for mob historians.
43:03
Speaker 2: Facts like this, as detailed in the documentary Momo, The
43:07
Speaker 2: Sam Giancana Story. Giancana's brother, Pepe, claims Sam told him
43:13
Speaker 2: that a New Orleans Mafia lieutenant's nephew by the name
43:16
Speaker 2: of Lee Harvey Oswald was recruited as one of the
43:19
Speaker 2: gunmen in the Kennedy assassination by New Orleans mob boss
43:23
Speaker 2: Carlos Marcelo, and that Sam Giancana himself supplied the other
43:28
Speaker 2: three shooters. the ones on the Grassy Knoll, a crooked
43:31
Speaker 2: Chicago cop named Richard Kane, and Chicago gangsters Chucky Nicoletti
43:36
Speaker 2: and Milwaukee Phil Aldericio. According to Giancana's brother, the cop,
43:41
Speaker 2: Richard Kane, was on Sam Giancana's payroll. Official CIA records
43:46
Speaker 2: available in the National Archives specifically identify Kane as a
43:50
Speaker 2: Sam Giancana associate, and they show Kane's involvement in passing
43:55
Speaker 2: information relevant to the plot against John F. Kennedy.
44:00
Speaker 1: Were these three men the actual shooters? I don't know.
44:04
Speaker 1: And neither do you.
44:06
Speaker 2: In this war of information era that we now live in,
44:09
Speaker 2: there's so much out there, on this story in particular,
44:13
Speaker 2: that it's impossible to cull through it all and conclusively say.
44:17
Speaker 2: But that doesn't mean that in the years and short
44:20
Speaker 2: decades after the assassination that the truth was less murky.
44:25
Speaker 2: and I believe available to Quincy Jones, given his proximity
44:30
Speaker 2: to the men involved. Quincy Jones, because of his talent,
44:36
Speaker 2: spent his life working with and around some of the
44:39
Speaker 2: most gifted, complex, and powerful.
44:42
Speaker 1: People the world has ever known.
44:44
Speaker 2: Frank Sinatra, Michael Jackson, Ringo Starr, to name just the
44:48
Speaker 2: three most relevant to the question we're trying to answer
44:51
Speaker 2: in this story, was Quincy Jones telling us the truth?
44:56
Speaker 2: There's a myth that surrounds these types of people. We
44:59
Speaker 2: see it play out in music biopics, on the pages
45:02
Speaker 2: of their autobiographies, in their obituaries. This myth that their lives,
45:07
Speaker 2: not just their personal lives, but their creative lives, that they're.
45:11
Speaker 1: Black and white.
45:13
Speaker 2: Easy to explain and even easier to understand. Michael Jackson
45:17
Speaker 2: was an otherworldly talent. The Beatles were just a great
45:20
Speaker 2: little rock and roll band. Frank Sinatra was the most
45:23
Speaker 2: successful Italian-American entertainer ever. Quincy Jones, in the end, was
45:28
Speaker 2: an old man in the first stages of dementia with
45:31
Speaker 2: an axe to grind.
45:33
Speaker 1: These myths obscure the truth.
45:36
Speaker 2: The opposite is always true, that their lives aren't lived in.
45:40
Speaker 1: Black and white. They're lived in technicolor.
45:44
Speaker 2: And they aren't easy to explain, and they're often very
45:48
Speaker 2: difficult to understand. Michael Jackson was an otherworldly talent, yes,
45:54
Speaker 2: but he was also, at the same time, a creative thief.
45:59
Speaker 2: Quincy Jones told us so, but the proof isn't in
46:01
Speaker 2: Billie Jean. It's in the comparison between Wannabe Startin' Somethin.
46:05
Speaker 1: And Soul Mocasa. The Beatles were just a great little
46:09
Speaker 1: rock and roll band.
46:10
Speaker 2: But they also were, yes, by Quincy Jones's estimation, no
46:14
Speaker 2: playing motherfuckers, as demonstrated with Ringo's struggles in the studio
46:19
Speaker 2: and by the fact that the Beatles never denied any
46:22
Speaker 2: of Bernard Purdy's claims, particularly as they might pertain to
46:26
Speaker 2: overdubs on the early live recordings. And yes, Frank Sinatra
46:31
Speaker 2: was the most successful Italian-American entertainer ever. And his deep
46:36
Speaker 2: relationship with the American mafia, and specifically with Sam Giancana,
46:41
Speaker 2: is well documented and beyond dispute. So doesn't it stand
46:45
Speaker 2: to reason that Frank would be privy to the answers
46:48
Speaker 2: behind the mystery to what happened on America's darkest day? Finally,
46:54
Speaker 2: was Quincy Jones old?
46:56
Speaker 1: Yes.
46:57
Speaker 2: Did he have signs of dementia in his final years,
47:01
Speaker 2: at the age of 84 in 2018 when he gave
47:02
Speaker 2: these interviews? six years before he died in 2024 at
47:09
Speaker 2: the age of 91. No, I don't believe so. And
47:13
Speaker 2: there's no public medical record or indication from anyone other
47:17
Speaker 2: than Michael Jackson's estate claiming he did. No, I believe
47:22
Speaker 2: Quincy Jones was one of the greatest musicians of all time.
47:26
Speaker 2: A musician who became the role model he never had
47:30
Speaker 2: to generations of other musicians who regardless of color or background.
47:35
Speaker 2: A musician who, because of his talent, had unprecedented access
47:39
Speaker 2: to some of the most talented and powerful people in
47:43
Speaker 2: the world. A musician whose music was so pure, so
47:47
Speaker 2: perfectly tuned to whatever era it was made in, always
47:51
Speaker 2: spoke honestly. Just like the man himself, Quincy Jones, who
47:56
Speaker 2: said it straight, all I've ever done is tell the truth.
48:00
Speaker 2: And that is anything but a disgrace.
48:04
Speaker 1: I'm Jake Brennan, and this is Disgraceland.
48:14
Speaker 2: All right. Thanks for checking out this episode on Quincy Jones.
48:17
Speaker 2: What do you think was cute telling the truth or what?
48:19
Speaker 2: You know, I think I made myself clear in this episode.
48:22
Speaker 2: And I have no reason not to believe the man.
48:24
Speaker 2: So it's kind of a dumb question for this week. 617-906-6638.
48:29
Speaker 2: Do you believe Quincy Jones? Do you believe what he
48:31
Speaker 2: was saying?
48:32
Speaker 1: Let me know. Side question. Who's your favorite music producer
48:35
Speaker 1: of all time?
48:36
Speaker 2: Is Quincy Jones the guy who made the records you
48:39
Speaker 2: can't live without?
48:40
Speaker 1: 617-906-6638.
48:41
Speaker 2: Voicemail and text to let me know at DisgracelandPod on
48:47
Speaker 2: the socials. DisgracelandPod at gmail.com. Disgraceland was created by yours
48:54
Speaker 2: truly and is produced in partnership with Double Elvis, The
48:58
Speaker 2: Exactly Right Network, and iHeart Podcasts. Credits for this episode
49:02
Speaker 2: can be found on the show notes page at disgracelandpod.com.
49:06
Speaker 2: If you're listening as a Disgraceland All Access member, thank
49:09
Speaker 2: you for supporting the show.
49:10
Speaker 1: We really appreciate it.
49:12
Speaker 2: And if not, you can become a member right now
49:14
Speaker 2: by going to disgracelandpod.com membership.
49:18
Speaker 1: Members can listen to every He's a bad, bad man.