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269 | Sustainable YM: Planning with Margin and Trust | SMC Podcast · Student Ministry Conversations

• speaker-0: Hey and welcome back to the final week of August. We are man, we're done with August. Holy cow. but with that being said, that means we are also to the end of our episode, ⁓ or end of our series on the idea of building a sustainable youth ministry. ⁓ s a con a topic that I feel both of us really thought was kind of An important one to tackle right off the top. Just for the nature of August is the planning phase. Like this is when you're getting ready for the school year. This is when you're doing all the things and you're setting all the boundaries and the the calendars and doing all of the planning and preparation for the remainder of the year. Some of y'all do 12-month calendars, some of y'all do four-month calendars, some of y'all do one month at a time calendars. So, like there's so many different ways that we can do this. but today is gonna be pretty much about that. It's gonna be about the idea that sustainability in youth ministry does require space, but it does not require constant activity. and I think the idea that we have to go through today is the idea that you have to resist over scheduling. and so as leaders and we plan for new ministry seasons. ⁓ it's easy to fill every gap with activity. We wanna do spring break, we wanna do Christmas break, we wanna do all these different things where we can fill every single waking moment that the kids have with something with us, and that's not healthy. I mean, I'm just gonna go out there and say it from the get go. Like it is not a healthy practice, it is not something that we need to be doing. And so the idea is planning seasons often look like what I just said. It's like how much can we fit in? Events, series, trips, programs, and before long your calendar is full. This your the kids in your ministry are even fuller on their calendars. ⁓ and the question has to be asked of like, is this healthy? ⁓ and so I think we all have heard this before, but the idea of more does not always mean better. ⁓ and I had a guy on the podcast forever ago, his name was Jerry Varner, he's a youth pastor, ⁓ and he he said something that stuck with me. He said, Show me your calendar and I'll show you your priorities. And it's just this mindset of like the calendar is a mirror of your own heart and your own intentions, but it's also a ministry of the priorities you have in your ⁓ in your ministry. And so with that, like, your calendar says everything that people need to know about what you focus on and what you prioritize. And so we have to understand that sometimes over planning or sometimes more on the calendar doesn't lead to better things. It leads to burnout. It leads to shallow engagement. It leads to exhausted students and leaders. And at the end of the day, like if you don't allow time for rest, you're just gonna ultimately lose interest of kids because they don't want to be involved in everything or they don't have time or the energy, let's say, more than anything, to be involved in everything. And a lot of times when priorities begin to kind of hit the r like hit the ground, like a lot of times youth group is one of the things that will crumble if it's just ⁓ well all we do is go play games and have fun and I mean it's cool but like I I already go to church. I go to church with my family on Sundays, so like and it's something that can really, really quickly kinda fall to the wayside if we're not careful. So we can do a lot without doing anything that kinda feels deeply like we're doing anything at all. So I think there's a I think there's a huge dynamic to that. I think there's a huge understanding on the mindset of like have a schedule, have a plan, ⁓ but don't don't overfill your calendar. or make sure that when you are planning your calendar, you're working through this idea of does it actually fit the mission statement of our ministry? And I we've talked about in the past on episodes about how you need a mission statement and how you need a like a a ⁓ focus for your ministry ⁓ and ours is ⁓ love god love students offer christ it goes hand in hand with our church which is love god love people offer christ and so we we try to do that but then also on the flip side of that everything that we do is run through that filter does this event give the opportunity to love god does this event give an opportunity to to love students and does it give an opportunity to offer Christ? If it doesn't fit into at least two of those three, if not all three, we don't do it. ⁓ and so I'm not saying eliminate all fun events from your calendar because they're not important. There's a time and a place for fun events too. But if your fun events are just as regularly happening as your ministry nights, you might be missing something. Yeah. So I mean, like, at the end of the day, like it's all about that marginal space. It's all about creating those breaks and rhythm. And David, there's a hundred ways that we could go in, like, the importance of like having breaks in our calendar, but what are some reasons why do margins matter? speaker-1: I think for all the reasons we've already said, burnout ⁓ and shallow engagement, I think is one of the biggest things. ⁓ of course, exhaustion in ministry ⁓ is a big part of it too. ⁓ part of the reason why I've been quiet is I think I've been honest enough on this podcast to know that I I'm the poster child for all the wrong things to do. in this area for margin. ⁓ I've always been the guy that Work really, really hard, do all the things, add more to the calendar, be that guy. because in my mind, I I made it okay by saying that we're trying to offer as many opportunities as we can to reach more people. And while that was true, If you it it goes back to the sort of the Jack of All Trades mentality. ⁓ and I fall very much into that Jack of All Trades kind of thing, though I think it's a little bit blowing smoke. I play everything and I do a lot of artistic from a creative standpoint. I do a lot of different things. which means that creatively, I do a lot of things mediocre. Media anyway. I don't do a lot of I do a lot of things, I don't do a lot of things well. And I think that mentality can very much bleed into our ministry. And I don't want that to sound self-deprecating, that's just being self-aware. I think it bled very much into the ministry of of me going, as long as I put a lot of opportunities, if I reach a couple here and a couple there and a couple there, it all adds up to reaching, you know, this desired number that we put in our head and and goal that we have ⁓ for our ministries. And that's not necessarily effective just because you cast a wide ⁓ it it ultimately comes down to if you cast a wide net, you'll catch more fish. Not always. Sometimes you need to go. This is the peak area where the fish are are at. This is the time. This is the right tide. This is throw in all the water metaphors that you can. There are peak times for certain things. There are specific weather patterns and tide situations where this is going to be the most effective. Figure out what the most effective thing, do one thing really effectively. that also allows your students to have a lot of buy-in and engagement to the point of where they're helping lead that one big event. All the rest will follow. Why? Because it's not gonna be us that attracts the fish, so to speak, in that metaphor. It's them. And we say it all the time. ⁓ one of the things that that Brent had mentioned months ago that stuck with me is they do one fundraiser a year and they're very, very intentional about that fundraiser. I mean, their students go all out, they they lead it, they serve, they speak on all the things. they personal testimonies, they have people speaking and and worship and the whole thing. Why? Because and I think Brent said he cooked a little bit. Like he organizes him. I mean he he will definitely downplay his role in it, but like He does he gets everybody organized to where they can be at the most effective in getting more students being there because they're the ones that are going to attract them. I don't care how charismatic you are, I don't care how how cool you seem on the outside, because let's be honest, it's all just ⁓ a show a lot of times anyway. But it's gonna be ultimately your students that's going to keep them there. All the giveaways in the world isn't gonna be the thing that keeps them there. It's gonna be having people that they genuinely connect with and want to be around. ⁓ that's why we see an influx of you know, towards the beginning of the year, you get all these new people because they're all dating each other, then they break up and they all leave again. ⁓ that wasn't because you weren't good enough. It was because they wanted to be with that said person. And so be intentional, spread your net. in the most effective area, letting your your leaders, your students have a big impact in that. And then whatever comes from that catch, so to speak, that's what you got to work with. Spoken a lot of metaphors, but I hope that made speaker-0: Yeah. No, but I mean and you you you probably missed one that is like the least talked about idea and I'm gonna throw it in there too. There is such thing as overfishing a spot. If you overfish a location, guess what? The fish don't show up no more. speaker-1: Yeah, they're like you took my cousin Bob, I ain't f I'm not swimming over there anymore. speaker-0: Yeah, so with that being said, like the the idea of overf the the idea of overfishing a population can happen too. And so it's not necessarily like don't don't hear us wrong, evangelism is a great thing. But all evangelism in your town does not go through your youth group. And at the end of the day, it doesn't matter if you spent twenty four hours a day, seven days a week, three hundred and sixty five days a year engaging students for ministry, you still wouldn't get ⁓ all. So finding those opportunities for margin and creating space for time where students can actually be home and be resting and be just relaxed is a huge idea because if we are telling them that they need to learn how to be still and be in the presence of God, yet we are consuming them with every waking moment of free time that they do have then we are missing out because margin creates space for relationships, it creates space for conversations, and it creates space for personal spiritual moments. speaker-1: Yeah. And that made me think like when was the last time any of us just sat with our students and said, Hey, let's model what it means to be still in the presence of God? Yeah. We're spending the next ten minutes. We even I mean, you know, sometimes we talk about pro g programming, I feel like we've we've spoken about that so far in this episode, but like let's be completely honest. Let's look at our typical Wednesday night, Sunday night, Sunday morning routine. Do we offer an opportunity for silence? That was probably one of the most important spiritual disciplines, but when was the last time any of us actually put that in and made that a regular practice? I'll be honest, the only times that I really do that intentionally is on prayer station nights where we do, you know, and and that's a great time, but when was the last time I did that with my group? The answer is I did it my first year and haven't done it since. So I am clearly needing a prayer. speaker-0: I think also the I think I think also the mindset of it is like it's not up to us to do it for them. We teach them how to do it on their own. And I think that is more than anything, like we talk about like the importance of self-advocacy and stuff like that. We as youth pastors have to teach self-advocacy for faith. speaker-1: Yeah. speaker-0: That is one of the problems where there are so many people that are coming into youth program like leaving youth ministries that go into college that are missing out and dropping off of the face of the earth is because the parent and the youth pastor and the church are not self-a teaching self-advocacy for them pursuing their own faith. So like n like planning events like that is great, but that needs to be in the practice element. And then you need to still leave margin for them to go try it on their own. So, like super super important, like without creating space for those things to happen, everything feels rushed. They don't have the ideas of, hey, I need to sit down and I just need to be for a little bit. Like, I just need to be still, I need to chill out, no music, no phone, no nothing. I just gotta unwind for a second. Like, you don't just get to that. Students don't just have that idea. They're taught that. And I'm I'm I'm doing this with my own kids right now. It's like the mindset of like, you know, like w how do you attack this feeling of anxiety and rush and everything else? You attack it with scripture. And so like we are teaching our kids like scripture memory right now. And it's the mindset of like, you know, where do you feel like you're struggling right now? And then like we're finding scripture that opposes that and then we're getting them to write it on their bathroom mirror so they see it every single day until they can memorize it and then they can put another one up there. Stuff like that is absolutely huge, but if we don't allow them to do it, it doesn't become a practice that they do. It becomes a practice that was done. So like absolutely huge importance of like we have to do ⁓ We have to create times or we have to be okay with not filling all of the time. Because ministry doesn't just happen in what you plan or the spaces that you plan. It happens in the space that you leave to. And so like that's where the conversations get to arise of like, you know, you know, I think one of the most like I think one of the most biblically or like spiritually refreshing or spiritually organic practices that can happen in a home is the idea of actually sitting at the same table and eating dinner together. If you're taking dinners away from a family that only has three nights a week that they get to eat dinner, like I I struggle with that. But at the end of the day, like I'm also a parent. I want to be home for those two. So like we we say, and I've said this before, is like this idea of like your family at home is your first ministry. Everything else is overflow. And so if you are loving your family well, if you are ministering to your family well, if you are serving your family well, everything else falls into place. And I think that's a huge dynamic. I wanted to jump real quick to the event side of things though. I talked about those three things love God, love people offered or love God, love students offer Jesus. Super, super important. Like use that funnel system. We actually took two things off of our events this year. speaker-1: Mm-hmm. speaker-0: And we did not repla well we re we replaced one of them. ⁓ was something new that we're gonna try and we're totally okay if we scrap it too. But two of my favorite event nights We've scrapped because we saw that they were not doing what they needed to be doing, and that's totally okay. We have a nerf war that we used to do. We have we our church has invested in Nerf guns and bullets and everything else, like hundreds of dollars in Nerf equipment, ⁓ and donations of old Nerf guns and all this stuff. We have a closet full of Nerf guns. We decided that we're not going to do it anymore. Because w it was not serving the purpose that it needed to be. And it was taking up a night that we didn't need to take up because it wasn't beneficial to what we were doing. We used to go paintballing on a Saturday. Another thing that is just absolutely like It was fun. I love going paintballing. Paintballing is an absolute blast. But it was not doing what we needed to do as a ministry. And so we took it out. Now with that being said, we still have events that are fun. We still have events that are doing things that are important. And we still have those fun nights. But we are serious about really, really reflecting on our engagement, how students respond to what we're doing. And then also, is this something that students want to actually show up to? Is this something that students want to bring their friends to? Because we see students as we see the importance of students as this idea that like when you do when you do stuff ⁓ when you do stuff like this, it's super, super important to like kind of filter through this idea of like, why are you really prioritized and focused on this as an event? Our fun nights are literally so there is a warm environment that our youth students can bring friends into that get them used to the idea and get them used to the understanding But also give them give a space that's not too evangelistic, not too like like they feel like they're out of place where they can come in and feel welcome and then make the decision to come back and join us for a Wednesday night. speaker-1: Right. Yeah, so like on the other side of that, like Brenda's taking a nerf war away. We're actually adding one this year. ⁓ it's the first time our students have ever ⁓ I like I asked way back and and our church has never done one. And and so our students w I I just straight up asked them, but I like, Hey, what do you all think about this? Is that is that dumb? Is that you know, they're like instant, like, Whoa, that's exciting, I would love that and and I was like, Okay, if we're gonna do this, I wanna make sure there's ⁓ there's some intentionality For me, this would be a major invite night. ⁓ we're I'm on year two, so we're still trying to build the ministry. And I was like, this only works if for two things. Number one, y'all have to bring stuff. Number two, you have to bring people. So I was like, I will do it if you guys can make that commitment. They're like a hundred percent. I'll invite like five or six people across the board. I was like, then it's worth it, you know, and then and and so the other thing too is I would like to not just make this like a fun night. I want to I want to make sure that there's time for you know announcements of other things that we have going on as well as ⁓ a short devotion. and worship. I think just having a fun night is great, but we're in our space. If you're gonna invite people, I want an opportunity. How do y'all feel about that? And they're like, I love it. Let's do it. And then then had another student that said, could I give the devotional? And I was like, touchdown. Yeah. speaker-0: And I want to make an im I want to make an important distinction there too that this is important as well. If you have to do all of your ideas on the same night, like where you meet on Sundays and that's your only option, or you meet on Wednesdays and that's your only option, and you have to do a fun night on a night that's normally ministry, I would totally encourage you to keep some aspect of ministry in that night. However, we don't. We have our worship nights on Wednesday nights and we do our fun nights on Sunday nights. And so we completely separate and distance the two and they know that Wednesday nights are serious and they know that really only about once a month on Sundays we meet for a fun night. So like I think that there's an important thing to s like Build that distinction of like what are we here for? What are we doing? And like, is this a serious time or is this a time where we're gonna like just have fun and goof off and like like you gotta set the expectation. So if you meet on the same night regardless, like for instance, David, I would assume that you're gonna do that nerf war on a Sunday night. Okay. Like, it is super, super important that if you do worship on a Sunday night and you do your teaching on a Sunday night, like David is doing, it's probably a good idea to still throw some aspect of worship and some aspect of a devotional into that time on a Sunday. Right. You just change the dynamic and you added a little fun segment before then. That's okay. But like having that distinction of like what are we here for and letting students know the plane ahead of time is super important because when you create that space once again, and this isn't necessarily Talking about like overuse or over planning, but when you create that space, you need to be intentional and you need to be articulate about what's expected because then students walk in with the right mindset. Right. So, like, just side note of like a really important thing to think about: like, if you go back and forth between worship, fun night, worship, fun night, worship, fun night on the same night a week. Like students get really, really confused and a lot of times students will come in with the expectation of like, ⁓ this is a fun night and then they're like, ⁓ no, it's not. That's next week and especially with junior high. Like, that's a huge, huge thing. So like really really important to distinguish between the two and I'm ⁓ like I didn't bring that up because David's not. David's doing what I would do. But with that, like the the the distinction is important. If you do ministry on a night that you're gonna do something fun, continue to add some ministry element into that night. We do it separately. Kids know that if we meet on a Sunday, it's just hangout, it's just games or goof off. It is just a night for fellowship and event like engagement. That is all it is, and it's just for an opportunity. For kids to come hang out and be together and build that community aspect. Like that's all it is. We don't do lessons and worship and everything else. We just show up and have a good time and the students know what to expect and they're ready for that. But they also walk into Wednesday nights with an expectation that they're gonna sit, they're gonna do worship, they're gonna listen to a lesson, and they're gonna contribute to small group. Like speaker-1: Mm-hmm. Yeah, we've added that element ⁓ to our Wednesday nights. And so it allows me to have more event type things on Sunday nights because Wednesday nights are very specifically worship, and we've kind of we started with a family model of everybody being together, ⁓ and that helped kind of build the concept and get people there, but now we're really trying to focus in back in on ministries, and so Wednesday. nights won't I'll be honest outside of like when we do our our start of refuel which is what we call it and our end of refuel those are our fun nights everything in between is worship and study and it's gonna be exactly the same all the way through speaker-0: But even that's an expectation that you've set, which is fine. Like having that expectation in your plan is ⁓ like that's all you need. Like so yeah, very, very good. So like when we look at this though and we're kinda going into this idea of like planning and we're thinking through ⁓ like I said, ministry doesn't happen in what you plan. You have to leave moments for students to be on their own, for them to have that the self advocacy opportunity, but then you gotta teach them to do it. I'm not saying don't teach them, but I'm saying you can't teach them and expect them to learn it without giving them time to practice on their own. So like some of that practice has to be in youth group and that's totally understandable. Tonight we're talking about sharing your faith. I'm gonna have some of my students get up and share their testimony in front of our high school students. That's that's practice, it's intentional, but it's also teaching the kids that haven't done it yet to know how to do it so they can do it in the future. But then I'm gonna leave them with the challenge of like, hey, now you've heard it, now you know how to do it, go do it this week and come back and tell me how it happened and let me know about it next week. It's a super important engagement opportunity, but I th I think the big thing with this this idea and this understanding of what we're doing is like start With your calendar, start with your week to week, start with your next month, and start planning differently. Build in rest weeks. We don't do anything on spring break. We give them that time off. We don't meet the first week of school. ⁓ Like our our church doesn't do that. When the first week of school is chaos for so many families, we're not gonna throw an extra thing in on their first week of school, especially when most of the time school starts on a Wednesday. speaker-1: Okay. Yeah, yeah, for us, I mean We haven't started our Wednesday nights yet, that's September second, which we do because of school. ⁓ but like that Sunday night, I was like, Listen, I I had students would literally walk in and say, Hey, we love we love study, we love getting to do worship and stuff. Could we just maybe chill tonight because we feel fried? And I said, Absolutely, with the caveat that you know next week we're hammering harder and they're like, Okay, great. Yeah, we're ready for that. But I mean I was listening to where they were. I get it. You know, they were they were coming coming in completely exhausted and I'm like, I don't necessarily love doing that. I'm I mean Britt and I have said we're not games people. We're just not. ⁓ you give us an opportunity, we'd love to spend three hours talking with you. You know, but at the same time you also need to be cognizant of what your students need in a moment and maybe they need just an opportunity to chill. And I will tell you that this last Sunday we ⁓ we ended up ⁓ diving in and And we went deep. Thankfully they were, you know, I didn't have to remind them. ⁓ actually the the two main ones that were kind of leading the conversation came in and said, All right, what are we what are we talking about tonight? And I and I told them and they were like, ⁓ cool. And so I mean I planned for 15 minutes of talking. It went 30 because they asked really good questions. And I was like, see they were I I I say it all the time and it's a formula of for as much as the youth ministry landscape has changed, one thing has stayed consistent all the way across my twenty years. of ministry is this if you trust them with the little things they will trust you with the big things. That sounds so simple and easy and but it's true in those moments when they could be honest and say I'm here but I'm so tired. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: And you actually lean into that, listen to what they're saying, as we talked about last week, listen to what they're saying and be flexible in that moment. Next week when we went deeper, this last Sunday when we went deeper, they really went deep and they were intentional. And they even said, Hey, ⁓ I even had one of them, one of them was like, Hey, thanks, thanks for being flexible. They didn't say flexible, they said, Thanks for just letting us chill. And I was like, You got it, man. And it was great. And speaker-0: That leads into the next thing that we're gonna talk about. In planning differently is the idea of leaving room for flexibility. Like that's it. Hundred percent. speaker-1: It doesn't there will be times where, and and I'll be completely honest, you might get flack for it. You might have a parent or a volunteer that goes, Wait, we're doing what? Make sure they understand the purpose behind it. Say, hey, our job is to meet our students where they are. I've always I've no matter where I've gone, I've always had that expectation in our mission statement is meeting students where they are. Sometimes speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: Where they are is just completely flat exhausted, and they just need some downtime rest. And so when you can see the pulse of your students and go, man, they are tired tonight. Okay. Let's rethink what we do. Be ready. Be ready with this is something we need to do a little bit different. Be okay with throwing the playbook out and just letting, you know, letting your students, I'm not saying walk all over you by any means, but be cognizant of where they are and meet them there. If they're in a place of tired, maybe we need a rest rhythm tonight. if they're like high energy, ready to go, rambunctious, we may have to kind of reconsider. And that's okay. ⁓ because like I said, when when they know that that they are trusted in those off, we'll just call them off days, they're gonna be on they're gonna be there and available on the on days. Yeah. And it'll blow you away too. speaker-0: Yeah. No. I I mean flexibility is a a huge aspect of that and it's a huge dynamic that needs to happen. and then you don't have to fill every gap. I think we've already hit that one well enough with this episode. Just because there is space on the calendar doesn't mean there needs to be an event on the calendar. ⁓ give your students opportunities to be home with their family. Give them opportunities to just be home, period. ⁓ in a world, especially in some schools where like you're in a smaller school district and your students jump from sport to sport to sport to extracurricular to extracurricular and they really have practice or of something every single night of the week. Like it's okay to give them opportunities to just chill. And it's okay to give you the opportunity to just sit back and chill too. I wanna be like we ⁓ David does a retreat that like for the church camp that we go to that I don't do because I We have decided, look, this is not something we are gonna do. It's too close to family time because it's a couple days after Christmas. and it's something as like, you know, as family time is is is a thing that our our church holds sacred. And so like we don't wanna throw events that get in the way of family time and there's a lot of travel and a lot of things. We don't discourage families from attending it, but it is not an event that we go to as a church because we feel it's too close. to other things and too close to like opportunities for family time. And so speaker-1: Yeah, and you have students that go. I mean for sure. speaker-0: And so there are students that still show up, but they go on their own, and that's totally fine. We support them, we still sponsor them, we help them out whenever they need financial assistance. But as a group, we don't promote it because we believe in the value of the time that kids get to sit stay home and be with their families, and it is a dying cause. But with that, ⁓ super, super important, you do not have to fill every gap. There are gaps you probably need to fill, and that's okay. Find it, have people. people that you talk to about your ministry, probably some of your leaders, your volunteers need to be in these conversations. ⁓ but then like just f fill what you feel and leave what you don't like. It's okay. You have permission to f leave gaps open on the calendar. You have permission to take stuff off of the calendar. It's it's okay. As long as you have a reason and a purpose behind it. If you're just taking events off the calendar so you don't have to come, that is not okay. Yeah. But also at the end of the day, if if you are so fixated on the fact that you're val ⁓ I'm gonna step on some toes here. ⁓ if you are so fixated and so focused on the value that you hold yourself. in the weight of your job as a youth pastor and you feel like you are not efficient as a human because you are not serving in some aspect or some dynamic of ministry at the church, you need to realize that ministry is not your life. Ministry is your calling. Like you still re like you need to find your value elsewhere because your value as a person does not have to exist as you being important as a youth pastor. It is a s it is a segment of who you are. It is your in occupation, it is your passion, it is your calling more than likely, but God does not want you to spend all of your time and effort on that and not focus on you and give time for yourself to speaker-1: Yeah, for sure. I'm I'm the poster child for that. ⁓ speaker-0: I'm not stepping on your toes, David. I'm stepping on other people's toes. speaker-1: ⁓ whatever, you know you were talking to me. I I I definitely have been that person. And honestly for me the mentality was we don't clock in, we don't clock out. And I took that clock out part a little too seriously at times, where I thought I'm always on the clock and I was quite literally killing myself. ⁓ it ⁓ I have epilepsy and I made it a lot worse. We'll just say that I was having four to five seizures a day. ⁓ in it why? Because I never rested ever. Ever, ever, ever. And that was the whole problem. speaker-0: I I heard it said once in a conference that I went to talking about this very subject, the dynamic of a spouse divorcing their husband. And going through a divorce because all they cared about and all they did was spend time at the church. And they said something that has absolutely haunted me to this day that I never ever want to hear my family say. And something basically came out to the nature of, I wish we were the church so you'd spend time with us. And like speaker-1: Mm-hmm. speaker-0: I was like, never, I will not allow that to happen. God has blessed that in my life and in my ministry. We make time for family and that is a hundred percent okay. You make time for your family, no one is gonna bat an eye, and realistically if a church does, you probably don't need to be working there because their priorities aren't in the right spot. speaker-1: I had to remove myself from a situation like that. speaker-0: So it is it is important, but that is a sign of a toxic church is if they don't make time for family and if they don't give you an opportunity to ha see family as your first priority in ministry, you're probably sitting in a very toxic situation. It doesn't mean you can just jump off and leave. speaker-1: Okay, I was about to say caveat. speaker-0: You it doesn't just mean that you put in your resignation tomorrow, but it is something that you question. It is something that you potentially request and challenge. And then if if you can't and if they do not budge, then that's when you start trying to find employment elsewhere. ⁓ I might be wrong on that. That is my firm belief. I believe that's speaker-1: I agree with that. I my problem was that I challenged it and then I stayed too long, knowing the door was closed. Yeah. ⁓ trying to fix it. And that was the whole thing, is I I went into dad fix it mode and I couldn't get out of it ⁓ until I finally realized I wasn't going to and it wasn't healthy in any you know physical, emotional, spiritual, it wasn't healthy in any way. And so all that. to say you can't just expect to change a culture overnight. It takes time and effort and you need to have you need to have purpose behind what you say. And so you know just going up to your church and saying, hey, I need more time for my family. And if you don't then you're toxic, like that's not gonna go over well. speaker-0: And please don't reference us if you do that because that's not what we're saying. speaker-1: But what we are saying is come in with scripture. Back it back it up and say, you know, scripture says this, psychology says this, I it's really, really important. If we're going to say that that family is our our most important ministry, if I am the primary disciple or my household, then I have to find balance. And and I'm asking that you would help me in my pursuit of finding balance. And and what that might mean is would you hold me accountable? Would you help me look at my calendar and look at my schedule and find times where this, you know, thing time that I can carve? You know, when they see that effort, they hear the biblical backing. they hear the heart behind it, then they go, Okay, yeah, let's let's figure this out. And if they don't, then maybe you need to start with, hey, would you spend the next week or two ⁓ in prayer of if this is something that's going to be important to our church? I don't know how you word it exactly. You know your church, but maybe start with prayer. You pray and then ask them to pray too, and then come together and talk about it. I mean, there's a lot of different ways and a lot of strategy and intentionality that can go into it, but can really, really help a situation. So learn from my mistakes. speaker-0: At the end of the day, you don't need a packed calendar to have a meaningful ministry. That's it. You need space. You need space because God often works in the moments that we didn't schedule. ⁓ and sustainable ministry isn't built on doing more, it's built on making space for what matters most. It's about depth over volume. How deep are you going, not how much are you doing? Okay. So with that, I think that's super, super important. And I I like there might be some people that are like, Well no, like like this is life. You have to understand. No, at the end of the day, your depth is what's ma what's important. If you have a kid that's surface level that comes every single day of the week, that's great, but he's never gonna get past surface level if you don't go deep. If you meet once a week or twice a week and you're going deep, That student will have so much more impact from the gospel because they're open and challenging and asking things and they have the permission and the opportunity to go deep when they need to. So super, super important. Set expectations, don't overplan, create space, leave space, find space for you to rest. All those things are super, super important. Very, very important for even just the month of August. Like August, we're getting back into the swing of things. Find rest for you. Find rest for your family. Give opportunities for you to actually s be able to unwind and clock out, as David said earlier. Because just because you can't clock out doesn't mean you're there all the time. It means that you can make the time in your day to be available for people when they need it. That doesn't mean you have to be around them all the time. I am on call is what I say. Which means that my life exists outside of church, but I always have the mentality of that if a student calls, I will do what I can to drop what I'm doing so I can go respond to the need. Within exceptions. I mean obviously like if a student calls and is asking about like just ⁓ the next fun night or something of that nature, be like, Hey dude, it's after nine o'clock, I will totally text you tomorrow, kinda thing like that. Like having boundaries and expectations like that is fine. But if a student calls you and they have a serious pressing issue or they're in trouble, it doesn't matter what time. So please, please, please just be mindful of the idea that it's not clock out. You're on like you're on call. Like that I think that's a huge dynamic difference and a huge shift in your understanding of you can be on call and be home. You don't have to be at the church. So David, I prayed last week, so I believe it's your week to pray, sir. ⁓ so close this out. Don't forget, ⁓ we talked about this last week. Our our podcast has a new website. ⁓ smcpodcast.riverside dot com. ⁓ and it has a newsletter that now is available for every single week. And so it's kind of an extra deep dive into each conversation with a little extra info, a challenge for each week, and then all of the information that we talk about that might be beneficial to the podcast, like show notes and stuff like that, will also be in those newsletter posts. And so today I had mentioned the episode with Jerry Varner where he made the comment about the your calendar being a mirror. I'm gonna link that episode into the sho into that newsletter post for this week. And so you should definitely go and check it out. and yeah, it's ⁓ hopefully it's an opportunity for y'all to just find more engagement and f more opportunities. And we would love to connect with you in any way that we can. Close this out, David. speaker-1: Alright, quick caveat. There are a bunch of people in the office next door. It's a little loud. Don't know if you can hear them, so I will apologize in advance. But let's pray. Father God, we just thank you so much for your love, your grace, your presence in our lives, Lord. We pray that ⁓ for every youth pastor listening, God and other other pastors, because we know there's it's not just youth pastors, but God, we just pray that you would ⁓ help them to ⁓ create rhythms of rest, margins and and room. for rest in their ministry, rest for themselves personally, rest for their students, Lord, that they can model exactly who you are and that in the spiritual disciplines that you call us to to have in our life. ⁓ they're called disciplines for a reason because it takes time and intentionality, but it's also something that is vital to ⁓ our spiritual health As a ministry, ⁓ as individuals, Lord, you call us to ⁓ have rhythms ⁓ that are are healthy and help us to ⁓ to draw closer ⁓ to you. So Father God, I pray that ⁓ as we close out this month of August in in sustainable youth ministry, training ⁓ volunteers and leaders and students to to have these rhythms in place that would would help them in their relationship. God, I just pray for a fresh revealing of of your Holy Spirit over them, God, in in areas where they may be lacking, ⁓ areas where And I say they, we are lacking, God, where we can ⁓ grow closer to you. And Lord, help us to model those things, to not be afraid to be vulnerable, to not be afraid to just simply listen ⁓ to. And so Father, we just thank you for what you have done, what you will do. God, I pray for such a ⁓ renewal of spirit this fall season and semester for everyone listening, God, that this would be such a refreshing ministry season. ⁓ over their lives, Lord. I pray that ⁓ you would grow their students and their ministries, ⁓ not just numerically, but as ⁓ individuals who are seeking a relationship with you, as we say all the time, Lord, that these students would ⁓ that we as leaders would meet them where they are and as we do, Lord, that they would take a step towards faith. God, a step towards you, whatever that looks like in the moment wherever the students are and what they need in that moment. God, I pray that your presence would just ⁓ move in a mighty and powerful way in their ministries. Lord, I pray ⁓ for strengthened relationships ⁓ with the students, ⁓ strengthened relationships with their families. God, that you would just bless them and keep them and guide them and protect them. God, give them wisdom, give them discernment. ⁓ and Lord give them creative spirits to to really ⁓ just have the best semester ever. God, we thank you, we love you, we certainly praise you. It's in your name we pray. Amen.