Latest / Reclaiming Consciousness / Bewitched - Breaking the Spell After Spiritual Mentoring Goes Wrong - Brenda's Story

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Bewitched - Breaking the Spell After Spiritual Mentoring Goes Wrong - Brenda's Story · Reclaiming Consciousness

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Reclaiming Consciousness.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Elise Bassine, trauma and breathwork expert and creator of the Metamorphosis Method, the only methodology bridging the gap between spiritual healing and clinical trauma work.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: For many years, our consciousness has been hijacked by societal and cultural programming, religion, the media, and familial and ancestral trauma.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: In this podcast, you'll discover my unique perspective on trauma healing and how it is the gateway to fully reclaiming your consciousness.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: You'll hear stories and teachings that expand your mind as you discover how every relationship challenge, business block, or limiting pattern is an invitation to reclaim the parts of your consciousness you unknowingly gave away.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: Get ready to go deep.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: Now let's dive in.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Hi everyone.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to the podcast and to our second to last interview for the Bewitch series.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: I continue to get so many messages and comments and love from you all about the series.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I thank you so much for your support.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: As I've said, it definitely wasn't something that I set out to do necessarily, but it's such an important conversation.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I think just so much has come out of it for me, just especially around my work around trauma, and then also connecting with all of the other women and really starting this bigger conversation around, you know, leadership and ethics and what we're requiring of ourselves as practitioners and as leaders in the community of transformation.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a lot bubbling up and a lot happening behind the scenes that I'm excited to eventually share with all of you while after it has uh cooked a little bit more.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: So this week we are interviewing Brenda, and Brenda has another very unique story and was in Betty's world for a long time.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: Now I can't remember exactly how long, but it was around that like 2015, 2016 time.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: And she is just really articulate and vulnerable, and her awareness just around her own situation growing up and her own trauma growing up impacted, you know, the way she showed up in this relationship and, you know, the way that she was treated.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: I think you're gonna find this really insightful.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: And again, we still continue to connect the dots and draw the parallels between the patterns of manipulation that we see across every single story.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: And uh one of those things is it's interesting.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: We were talking about this the other day with Elizabeth Purvis on the Instagram live we did about her episode.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the things that we had been talking about behind the scenes was, you know, that thing that we're calling the snake bite, right?
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: And why so many powerful women put up with that?
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: And what really came to me as an answer to that question is shame.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: And shame is something that I work with obviously with my clients around because you know, shame is like at the very bottom of the Sunday.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if we're looking at a Sunday, and um I don't know how many of you are familiar with this, but we have a restaurant in this area called Friendly's.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if Friendly's is like everywhere or not, but Friendly's is like a it's kind of like a diner, but they have homemade ice cream.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I used to go there a lot as a kid.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: Now I don't remember the last time I was ever I was there, but they used to have a happy ending Sunday, they would call it.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: And it was a kids' Sunday.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: And at the bottom of the Sunday, they would have Reese's pieces or MMs.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, you'd always like be so excited to get to the bottom of the Sunday, and you get to eat the Reese's pieces or MMs that were at the bottom.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I always say that uh shame is at the bottom of the happy ending Sunday, like it's always underneath of everything else.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and especially with my work, when we're looking at the core wound and like what is that one thing, that one wound that's driving everything else.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: And even when we get to like the bottom of that, there's always shame there.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason why is because the action of shame is to hide.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: So anytime we feel shame around something, we immediately are going to hide that thing from everyone, including ourselves, a lot of the time.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why shame can be such a tricky thing to understand about ourselves, because it's hidden and it's always going to be something that we don't want to look at.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: What happens during these snake bite moments that we've described throughout the course of the podcast is that immediately what Betty was doing was poking at the shame of whoever she was talking to.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: So she would shame you and it would trigger your unconscious shame, which would immediately prompt you to hide, right?
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: And think, oh, this is my fault.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: I must have done something wrong.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so you don't speak up.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I think shame is a really powerful emotion.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's a really powerful motivator and it can be really tricky because it likes to stay hidden.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's important to have this conversation because when we look at how we really do the work to become the type of people that aren't affected by certain patterns of manipulation or abuse or just like ways of relating that aren't healthy, we have to be looking at our own shame and what we unconsciously feel is wrong about us that we're trying to hide from ourselves and the world.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, that's obviously a huge part of what we do in the metamorphosis.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: I am very passionate about helping you to uncover the unconscious shame that might be driving you to not take action on the things that you want or take action that's inspired by shame instead of being action inspired by your true authentic purpose or authentic desires.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: So these things are so important to look at in the healing process and also when it comes to creating what you want, because a lot of times the reason why things feel slow or you're not able to get to where you want to be is because there is some unconscious shame in there that's driving the bus.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I just wanted to bring that forward because I think it's such an important piece of the puzzle.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, the best way to really uncover that is, you know, working with me in the metamorphosis, which I know a lot of you have done already.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but the next round we have coming up at the end of May.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: And it's now a three-month program.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: So it was a two-month program for a while there, but I decided to extend it to three months because you need three months for this work.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to be able to support you for a longer amount of time to create the results that are possible in this program.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: So if you already did the metamorphosis, please reach out to me because there is an alumni price where you can do it again.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I have people do it again every single time because it's that powerful and you keep getting results every single time.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so please reach out to me about the alumni pricing.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then also, if you have not done the metamorphosis, I highly, highly recommend this.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: I always say at worst, you'll leave with a complete perspective shift on why you do what you do, why you're stuck, and what you're meant to do in life.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's worst case scenario.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: Best case scenario is all of the tangible results that you desire will happen.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, so really you can't go wrong.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, so that is starting at the end of May.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: And if you sign up now, you'll receive$500 off.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: And there is a payment plan available.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: And also, if you sign up now before the end of April, you will be bonus into Past Lives of Money, which the first call for that is May 1st.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: That is all.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: I will leave it there.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: I have some really exciting stuff happening behind the scenes, but I don't want to um go on and on.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I will be back.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: Don't forget to follow me on Instagram and watch my stories because I'm always sharing the latest stuff on my stories.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: So please don't forget to follow me at Elise underscore breathes.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: Also, subscribe to me on YouTube because I'm going to be sharing a lot more on YouTube.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I've already started to.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: So you definitely want to subscribe to me there.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: Just search Elise Breathes and you'll find me on YouTube as well.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, have an amazing weekend.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: Please reach out to me with any questions.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: Don't forget to rate and review the show to receive a$250 credit to anything else in my world, anything new in my world that you're joining.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: And you can definitely apply that to the metamorphosis.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I will see you next week.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: Enjoy the episode with Brenda.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, everyone.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to another episode of our Bewitched series when spiritual mentoring goes wrong.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: And we are joined this week by the wonderful Brenda Reese.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: And we're really excited to have her on the show.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: We were just talking about her process a little bit of deciding to do this, and we're really excited to have you.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: So, Brenda, welcome to the show.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_02: I'm glad you ladies are doing this, actually.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: So why don't we just start at the beginning?
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: When did you first come in contact with Betty?
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: What was the story around that?
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: What made you want to start working with her?
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: And what was that kind of like beginning of the story like for you?
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_02: So I was trying to think of exactly when it was.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_02: When I was talking with Robin a little while ago, I'm like, girl, I started with her way back 2014, something like that.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: I couldn't remember the exact days because I was introduced to her through another colleague of ours.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_02: And it was interesting because I took a program through another colleague that was trained by Betty.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_02: And then I got into her world, which fascinated me because I was I was going from corporate to entrepreneur, right?
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: So I felt I didn't know anything.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: I'm ripe for the picking when it comes to, you know, let me help you.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, one of the reasons that I'm so glad that you decided to let us interview you is because of the historical experience that you had with her.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: You came in early on, I think around the time like Alicia was coming in and Elizabeth.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's that kind of through line, I think, that brings us a different vantage point for you, because you really got to see firsthand, I'll call it the devolution at this point.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there you go.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: So, what was your early experience like with her?
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: What did you notice about the connection with her?
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: How was she behaving?
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: Anything like that?
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: It was fascinating because so when I came in, I was in awe of how she handled herself in the sense of it's like, wow, how she was just like just herself.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: She just said what she felt and she seemed to have all the knowledge.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_02: She talked about, you know, money was part of the deal and helping make money was important.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: But it was interesting because part of me right away was also, I'm gonna use the word triggered.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: I was activated.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: And because of the tone and how she talked to people, very more direct.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't know at the time yet, shameful because I was used to that.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: That was my my trauma.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna say that from how people had talked to me growing up.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_02: And it was an interesting experience to not know what was going on, but also be attracted to it.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like it was like this pull, and I didn't know it.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: I just thought, oh, maybe I can be like that.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: It was like being drawn into the painful, familiar.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it wasn't a cognitive, it wasn't like a conscious, but there was an actual pull.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_02: So I dabbled in it because I was working with someone else, but I was also, it was this fascinated.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_02: I couldn't not like when she'd offer stuff.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_02: You're right, it felt familiar, but I couldn't put my finger on it.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_02: And at first it was very nice, but she was very direct.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: And with a few people, I'm like, huh.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_02: And you know how you're in these groups, so you you see the same people, right?
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: Usually there were some new ones that were coming in, but I I did this for I was trying to remember exactly what the timeline was, but I did this and I just did these little classes with her, and then she got into this phase of doing this multi-marketing thing, and where and I'm like, because she was saying you need different streams of income.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: You have to do these different streams of income.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_02: So she was into this doTERRA stuff for a while, and it was like, I'm not telling you what to do, but you need to buy this.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it was this what I was already into it myself, but she the way that she did it, she shamed people for not building this business when that wasn't the business that people were coming to her for.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_02: Does this make sense?
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: It was so weird.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: And when you say shamed, can you give an example of what that might look like?
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: So I witnessed, and that's when I started to go, something seems familiar here.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_02: It was because I had also been in Amway and OTERA, and I I was into those things because my husband at that time was really into let's get rich quick kind of deal.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_02: But someone would ask her a question, like she would say how much money she was making.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: This is easy, you know.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_02: You can just make a 10K month.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: I just did a 10K month and da-da-da-da-da.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: She has this audience, she has people that are attracted to her and to it, you know, they're gonna do what she wants them to do.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: This person asked a question in one of these calls can you tell me how you talk to people?
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: How did you get this many people?
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_02: And she's she got this tone.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_02: That was the first time I remember going like this.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: That was the first time that I'm like, because it came out and it was, I can't remember the exact words, but I just remember the whoosh.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: If you've ever had that energetic kind of whoosh, because I was the one, I wouldn't raise my hand to ask questions growing up because of being shamed or feeling like I was and judged.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_02: And so then it kind of taught me as like, oh, that's what got me.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_02: I had this vision of that's what this is, and then having her, oh sweetie, boom.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: And it was like to somebody else, like we go from strict shame to sweetie.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: What was the tone of sweetie?
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: Was that more mocking or more soothing, or like, how did you read that?
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: I read it as soothing then, which it was an interesting experience looking back at what the body does.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: And so when you hear that, it was like, oh, it's okay.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's a false okay, because that's what my life had been.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: I love you, so I'm going to beat you.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_02: And then I love you, oh honey, I'm so sorry.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it'll won't happen again, kind of thing.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: So that part was from I wasn't connecting the dots at the time, but it was like, oh, okay.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: You know how you're just like something's familiar.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_02: And so I watched that continue because that was, I think, a year or two into this, and then she was gonna retire.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_02: And then I thought, wow, she's young.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_02: How do you retire?
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_02: I want to know how to do that.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: I was older, I'm like, I don't want to do this, and then she went through that, and so then I stepped away for a while.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: Can I just ask a question before we move forward?
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: Because I just want to clarify for the listeners.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: So basically, what was happening at this point that you're talking about is that people were coming to her for help with whatever business money or whatever, and she was responding by shaming them for not joining her MLM.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: I just wanted to put it clearly because just in case anyone missed that.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, thank you.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was really interesting.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: It was really fascinating because at the time she was talking about the different types of income that you could do, but that was the income, right?
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_02: That was the thing to do.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: You were supposed to join her and sign up with her.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't around at that time.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: Was she still helping people with their businesses, or was she telling people you need to do this, or both?
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_02: It was both because that became that became like the focus.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: So, what I noticed with her, there's a focus.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like it was either real estate or there was MLM or there was social media.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: There was this thing that she could do what looked easily, and she expected you to be able to do it too, which was I thought really interesting because she made it sound so easy.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's one of those, hey, make$50,000 in seven days.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: Come on, you can do it.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: When I'm not that person or I'm just learning, and then I feel bad myself for it, I'm already feeling bad, and then I get this coach that's also making me feel bad.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm also used to it, so I'm coming back for more.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: You've alluded to how you've been used to it.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: Can you give a couple of examples for our listeners about from childhood or from early adulthood that would have played into the familiarity with this kind of interaction?
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: Growing up, it was the absent parent, and I was like, my mom was there, but not emotionally available.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_02: So we started out with three kids and then she remarried and we had nine kids.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: And in this nine kid period of time of my life, the stepfather had a mental issue, so he left and or he was put away.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know how you nicely say that, placed somewhere else.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: But in this period of time is when there was a lot of chaos going on.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: And in this, she couldn't handle my mom, couldn't handle all of it.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: So we got beaten if somebody did something wrong and nobody would confess.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: We all got it.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_02: My sisters and brothers would shame me.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_02: There was sexual abuse that happened to me through a stepbrother.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_02: And so there were these things that happened where I wasn't feeling very good about myself.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: And then when I got into the teenage years, then it was also like this pattern that just kept coming at me.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: I couldn't do anything right with the schools and my homework, especially men in my life.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_02: It was interesting when it really came from the mother.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_02: But I was always trying to prove myself.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: I was always trying to be better, and I couldn't do it.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_02: So there was always this shame spiral that would happen, if this makes sense, that I would always be put into.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_02: And especially I will say this from like my older brother, very smart, book smart.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: Whenever I would try to sing, and Darab and you and I talked about it, run, because I loved to run.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: I couldn't do it right.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: I wasn't fast enough, I didn't run right.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: And he was like the father figure to me.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_02: So that planted quite a few of these feelings, beliefs, I'm gonna say.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for sharing that.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's important in the greater context, especially as Robin and I are making the connections between everyone's stories.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of ways where she would play on people's childhood trauma.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: So it's important for the listeners to understand like how that showed up for you because it's something that we've seen with pretty much everybody.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I appreciate you sharing that.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thank you.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: I guess we can go on now to the next kind of phase.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: So you said you stepped away for a little bit and she said she was gonna retire.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, she decided that she was gonna retire.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_02: So she was like stepping away from the business, which I thought was fascinating because she never really did.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: So that was another one of those.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna say this and then do this, which was another thing that I was used to.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I was familiar with, I will say, because it's like saying, I was promised all sorts of things childhood, and even in my adult, because this played out into my adult marriages too, where they say one thing and then they do another.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_02: So I stayed familiar, you know, or at least I'm gonna say I was curious.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: So I stayed in the world because you know, you're getting newsletters, and it was only happened for a little while.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: Then she comes back with this other idea.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: That's when I think that real estate started happening, more prevalent.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: And so there was always something that you can do to make money, always in her in her mind.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: Was she all this time teaching her modality as well as a pathway to making money?
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: Or how did the energetic or spiritual messaging and practices play into whether it's the MLM or the real estate or even her decision, air quotes, to retire?
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, she was teaching.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_02: It was interesting because I was as I was thinking about this, the money part of it wasn't.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Making money was important, but not the whole focus.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: The other modality was as far as records and that kind of thing.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_02: That was the main modality up until this time.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_02: And then I noticed with the real estate, that's when it started switching the focus of the business towards more money with the real estate.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: Because I was, of course, in awe.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: I'm in awe because she's talking about how much money she's making, not realizing that that's just a ploy.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_02: How many people?
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I heard on another podcast, I think Andrea talked about it.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's like nobody was making that money that she was saying that we could make with all these little groups.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I was in all these groups.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_02: I hadn't really worked with her privately, except for she would offer a couple times a year this two-hour thing where you could do a quickie, you know, and she would help you.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: But I was always there in these groups.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm thinking I'm the only one that isn't doing it.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: That sounds familiar, doesn't it, Elise?
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm even thinking about the episode with Nicole and how she was misled about the money that people were making, also.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: But yes, it feels like that is a common theme where people feel like they thought it was just them.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: And that's been something that not even just on the show, but as people are listening to the show, they've been messaging me saying, I thought it was just me, or I thought I was the only one.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: So this is like a very consistent theme that I've seen with so many people at this point.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even know how many, but a lot.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: Being siloed within a group, because you can't talk about, you can't be transparent with what's actually going on.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: If you are transparent about what's going on, the likelihood of you being shamed or embarrassed in public on the context of a group is going to be pretty significant.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: Basically bringing it back to what's your problem, what's wrong with you.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: This is one of the themes that we haven't really touched on yet.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: But Elise, I want to bring this forward now.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: If I can do it, anybody can do it.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: That was a theme more generally in spiritual entrepreneurship, women entrepreneurship.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: If I can do it, you can do it.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: And that's simply not true, first of all, based on personality and experiences and all the things.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's not true.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: But if she was even insinuating that, that would be part of the system that she was operating from.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's and it is a big lie.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: If I can do it, you can do it.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: And that was what was starting to not just be implied, but said, starting in these years with the real estate and forward, because I didn't experience total the shaming myself until later, and then until the last four years.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_02: Well, no, since 2020.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_02: And that's when it started to change.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_02: But before that, she reached out to me because she does this.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: She reaches out and sends you this little note saying, Oh, I'm thinking about you, and I've got this thing coming up you would be perfect for.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: And let's get on a call.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_02: Unless you know it's the right thing.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: This is the other thing.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_02: Unless you know it's the right thing for you, then here's the link kind of thing.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: I have to say, it's a really good strategy.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: I coach that strategy myself.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: If it's true.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: If it's true.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: If it's true.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I agree.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: I I use personal invites a lot because I do think it's the best strategy.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: And that's something I did learn from her, but not in a manipulative way.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: I literally just reach out to the people that I know would want to do it.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: But but it's not like you know that you're like that type of thing, like where it's like shaming you.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: If it's like you know and I know that you need to do this.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't, then you're not like showing up for yourself or some bullshit like that.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think about whenever if I have ever, for whatever reason, not been super crystal clear about who I'm inviting into something and just tried to do a blanket, send it to everybody, you know you're meant for this.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's bullshit.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: First of all, it's bullshit.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: The universe knows it's bullshit.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: My benevolent consciousness knows it's bullshit and it doesn't work.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: That approach has never worked for me unless it is crystal clear.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_00: But I think about Elise Louisa talking about that sort of energetic implant in the back of her mind when she would hear the telepathic messages coming through.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I'm so I should do this.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: It was almost happening not just on a physical exchange of 3D, but also on the energetic plane as well.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: Of with Louisa saying that she had just gotten these telepathic messages and assumed that because she was getting them telepathically, that she must have to step into something.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: Was that your experience or something different from that?
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I didn't understand the telepathic at the time.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: For me, it was just like the, oh, I'm special.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_02: She's reaching out to me, you know, multi-billionaire, whatever I thought that she was, that she claimed that she was.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_02: Was like, oh, because that's what I wanted, right?
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_02: To feel the little girl inside of me always wanted to feel special that she never felt growing up, right?
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_02: And by this time, I'd had enough with her that she knew my background.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_02: She also knew that personally, income-wise, I was okay.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: My business was not because I'm trying to get the hang of my business.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_02: I'm trying to make money.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: But personally, she knew that we were okay.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_02: That's why she reached out to me.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't about the business, even though she said it was.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_02: This was about real estate.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_02: It was an interesting thing.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, hey, you might want to invest in this.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_02: I know you're doing okay financially.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_02: So here's my guy.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I will help you.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: Wait, wait, wait.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: Did she refer you to her guy?
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_02: She said she has a guy.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_02: Did you ever meet with that guy?
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_02: No, I never did because this at this time now it's not just me, right?
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_02: There's a story there I can see.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: We haven't really talked about this topic yet on the show.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: I think Nicole touched on it a bit, but not in the way that you are.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd love to hear just like when she came to you with that, obviously, what happened.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_02: So it was a couple conversations because it was like, I said, I can't really do that by myself.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_02: Now it's not just me and my business, right?
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_02: It's my husband.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm curious, right?
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_02: Because the way that she makes it sound is phenomenal.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_02: Because with real estate, and we've had investments in real estate.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: So I understand that piece.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_02: But she was talking about taking 20,000, 30,000 and investing with her guy and having them buy the stuff.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_02: This is the other thing.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_02: Was she telling us, like the people that were interested, like whenever her she talked about it, then these phone calls, that she was she was into the real estate.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_02: So she was doing all this stuff.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_02: And then later I learned it was the guy that was doing this, whoever this guy was.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't even remember if I ever heard his name or knew who he was.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: Are you talking specifically about the real estate deals or more generally about the financial?
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_02: It was the real estate and then the financial.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_02: So it was both.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_02: So it's she started with me with trying to get me into the real estate, and then it was you need to invest with these people.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: So then it turned into both because she knew.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_02: Now, this is where I started to feel a little awkward because I'm going, are you really coming to help me?
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_02: Or are you just wanting the money?
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: I just had a memory pop up and it's not leaving me.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: But at some point, this would have been years later, we're flashing forward, we'll say 2023, maybe after Santa Fe's.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: Betty said to me about you something like, and I'm aware that I'm saying this to you, and it wasn't mean, it was just like to your point about did she want you for the money or for what you were wanting to create?
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: Brenda, she's in these programs more for personal development than she is for business development.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: That was her synopsis to me about why you were in her world, if that makes sense.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's a crime.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I don't think she viewed it as a crime so much as it to your point.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: She knew you had the money and the resources, and sort of was the insinuation that I got was that she was allowing you to stay in her spaces, not because you were super successful in your business, but because the other piece you had the money to invest and you were using these things as personal development.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: Not there's nothing wrong with that.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: This kind of lends itself to this conversation around the why she would like to keep you in her world.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because she eventually she told me to go get a job.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_02: And what was the context for that?
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_02: So this is after, like when I came back.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: So when I didn't invest in the real estate thing, and then she didn't pay attention to me for a while.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: So wait, before we go on to the get a job thing, so when you decided not to invest, do you feel like she got upset?
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: If you had to say it from now looking back, do you feel like she was just interested in getting your money?
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: Now I know, right?
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_02: Now I know.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_02: And looking back at these different conversations that I had with her, and especially that one was a really important kind of pivot for me to start going, huh?
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_02: Wait a minute.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: Is it me in my development?
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_02: Because there were also conversations around helping me with my fear and my trauma.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_02: She started with that.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_02: But when I didn't really hear from her after that, after I said, No, I can't do it, because my husband was like, No, I'm not gonna say, Thank God.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_02: Thank God I'm not giving that crazy lady our money.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: No, it was really funny too.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_02: He'd hear her voice on a phone call if I was on speaker or whatever, and he goes, I don't like her.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: Wait, this is so funny because first of all, Gia said that about her boyfriend or fiance or whatever would say that.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, my husband's made comments because he makes comments about everyone's voice.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: So forget it.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: He has made so many comments like, why does she talk like that?
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I can't listen to her voice.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: And then, Robin, did you say your husband is too?
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it wasn't even so much the voice, but it was just being all about the money.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: She's all about the money, she's all about the money.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and my and my husband, ironically, is a financial guy.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: So for a financial guy who's got a huge book of business to say that somebody's all about the money.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_02: There's a different way to be all about the money, which you can feel it.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_02: Now I know it, but before I didn't know it.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: So you say no to the real estate deal, and she basically your persona non grata at some point.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, which was okay.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_02: Because then I'm like, okay, then I'm gonna just figure this out.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I did some other things, and it was interesting.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_02: And then we got closer because that was maybe 2018, something in there, 17, 18, 19.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so I stepped away from the whole thing and she didn't even reach out.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: And then by 2020, around in there, because I was looking back and I started like again paying attention, or she reached out.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_02: I can't remember which thing happened, but I went back and I was like looking at the calendar kind of thing, kind of go, what did I do?
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, it was in March of 2020.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, so right around this time of year, five years ago, when the whole world was going on lockdown, and she began her tirade against the machine, her rage against the machine.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was an interesting thing, reflecting.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_02: So reflecting back, we're already traumatized by what's happening with the world shutting down.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember I was really activated over the whole thing, the control, the stuff.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I have a background in all of the interesting they call conspiracy theories, right?
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I have heard people talking about that for a long time.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_02: The chemtrails and the food, it's been in my periphery.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_02: I have a tendency to go, I look at both sides.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_02: I don't just take one, usually.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going, hmm, this could be.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_02: Well, hmm, what about this?
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_02: I'm doing both sides.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_02: So when she came forward and was talking about the different things, I'm like, this could be true.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_02: But then the confusion started.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: So tell us about the confusion.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_02: The confusion where she was mocking or talking about these people that were doing these signs with the hands and with the stuff, but she was doing the signs with the hands and saying the things.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: But it was okay if she did it.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: See, this is something that is new to my awareness.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't aware that she was doing that.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: So you were aware that she was mocking the people who were doing the hand signals, the gestures that would in her mind and other people, some other people's minds, be related to like the Freemason, the storyline, the cult, whatever.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: She started talking about a lot about the false light that was in our community, and that you could talk, you could tell by what kind of hand gestures they were using.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then you're watching her, and she's doing what?
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_02: She's doing the exact hand signals that she was saying.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_02: And she was she would hold her hand in a certain way and say, But this is different, and this is like more of the light.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_02: Then I thought, I'm like, What?
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_02: How can that be of the light?
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_02: And then she started doing the pictures of all of the actors and Hollywood and everybody who was to be do not pay attention, these are the devil kind of people.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_02: So it was an interesting experience because it was this, could it be?
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know about that, which I felt again later in Croatia.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_02: But it was this interesting do I believe it?
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_02: Because part of me had already heard this stuff for years.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I knew about the Freemasons, but I didn't know them in this sense of how she was presenting them.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'm more of like the hmm, let me look at this a little bit.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_02: But again, there's this pull.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_02: There's like an energetic, emotional cycle.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not sure what it was, but there's this like a pull, as you can see, it's almost like a pulling forward.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so I went back and I did a lot with her, 21, especially, 22, just in her different classes that she was offering.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_02: But during this time, she was changing and becoming more because for a while, like in the beginning, I will say she was nicer.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_02: Even though she shamed some people, she could be nicer.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_02: I could see this in her.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_02: And then that started to change.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_02: She started to get a lot more direct, a lot more judgmental of people and attacking people.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, what's happening?
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_02: And then again, part of me is okay, part of this is familiar, very passionate, standing up for what you believe in.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_02: I've seen this before.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, hmm.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_02: So I stayed involved because now I'm wanting to build my business.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_02: So now we're done with all the other stuff: the MLM, the real estate, we're out of all that.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_02: And now she's back to just money.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_02: Everything is money.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's too much money, actually.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's just like so big on money that it made me uncomfortable.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_02: Because I was also felt I couldn't do it.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: And also, as you started doing more stuff with her, did you feel like you were getting anything out of it?
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: Did you get results?
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_01: Did she help you with your business?
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: Was there anything that you learned or results you got?
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_02: No, because this is the time it was 21 or 22.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_02: It was in 21, because it was when we were doing these classes and I was doing this group, several groups.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_02: You always had these group things and you could never figure out which group did what.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_02: And you were supposed to be in there because she would reach out because I'm special, because I got triggered that because during that period of time is when my husband started getting worse.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_02: So I am seeking something to help give me some sort of foundation.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_02: My business has always been a safe place for me in the sense of I love doing what I do with people, right?
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_02: Helping them, not building it.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_02: Building it's hard.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_02: Marketing, all that stuff was hard, but I loved what I did.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'm looking like, okay, I need to build this because my husband's health is deteriorating.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_02: So that's where I went back to go, and I don't even know what drew me back.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_02: That's the weird part.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_01: Are you aware?
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_01: Because this is something we've talked about in the other episodes, is like and what Robin kind of mentioned with Louisa.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: Are you aware of any ways that you felt energetically attacked or pulled in or somehow manipulated energetically to come back or to be pulled back in?
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, not in, like I said, in reflection, because at the time I didn't know, because I step away and then all of a sudden she comes back into my psyche.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_02: Out of nowhere.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_02: I'm doing my deal.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_02: There was nothing, I didn't look her up specifically.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not even really during this period of time, really even checking things out right before 2020.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_02: All of a sudden it was like, tune in.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_02: That was really odd.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_02: But then, you know, I'm thinking, you know, okay, it must be divine timing.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_00: It must be synchronicity.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: It must be synchronicity.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I thought at the time.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: Now I'm going, oh crap, I don't think it was synchronicity.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_02: No, I did feel that because I never really thought about the telepathic thing until later, you know, more 2023, when it was specific where she'd say, I'm sending you a telepathic message.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I would get an answer in my head.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_02: Then reflecting back, it's like, I must have been getting those all along, is what I was thinking.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't necessarily because she thought I could do a business.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_02: That's my feeling overall.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_02: It was the fact that she wanted me in there for the money.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_02: I think she cared.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: But why don't you think she like thought you were you could have a business?
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: Do you felt like she didn't believe in you?
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: Or like what makes you say that?
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_02: Well, because in 2021, that's where I started to 2022.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_02: She offered these little packages because I never did invest in like the full year thing with her.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't do that, but I stayed in her world, in the different groups, in the different things, because I didn't think I had what it took to invest in that much in myself.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't think I could do it.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_02: So I would just do these little containers.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember having these conversations with her, you know, that were offered in these containers.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_02: And she would tell me that don't do forgiveness.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_02: Forgiveness is just not for you.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_02: You've got to figure something out, you got to do something different.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_02: And then it really tore at me because I'm thinking, I know this is what I'm supposed to do, but it wouldn't let me go.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_02: But then again, now I have somebody of authority, air quote.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_02: I'm looking at her like she knows more than me.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm giving my power away because that's what, in hindsight, this is what I'm doing.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_02: I'm abdicating, which is something that she said, don't ever do is abdicate your power.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_02: But she's also having me and I know other people abdicate our power to her.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_02: So again, that that kind of push-pull thing like we had before.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it's interesting, Brenda, that when push comes to shove on major investments like the real estate deal or like a year-long program with her, it seems to me, I might be mistaken, but it seems to me like it was a hard no for you, more so than making yourself wrong for it.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_00: There was just something in that that didn't sit right with you.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_00: Is that accurate?
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, especially like the real estate.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_02: When it came to larger investments, and my body was pretty clear.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_02: It was like, no.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_02: So, which is interesting.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Robin.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_02: It was an interesting thing because I knew no, she had offered it a few times, like the longer.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_02: But then by then, it was about this period of time where she's also going.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_02: So this is where she started getting a little bit more.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_02: I don't even know how to describe the tone.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_02: How you do anything is how you do everything, right?
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're doing this right now, if you're not making these financial decisions, if you're not making this thing work, then you're no, you're never gonna make it in your business.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember her sending me a voxer telling me one time she said, you know what?
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe you should just go sign up with one of those companies that hire coaches because you're not gonna make it.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_02: Now, this is in the midst of Doug and all this stuff, but I am believing her because I'm doubting myself, not thinking that I may not be with the right coach, that maybe she's helping me not feel so good about myself.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_02: She's not helping me build up and finding, like a good coach would find where is Brenda's strength?
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_02: How can we build up these weaknesses?
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_02: How can we, or what she's not strong in?
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe we can offer these things.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_02: But instead, that's when she pivoted and she decided, I'm not gonna talk business with her.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_02: So why don't we just?
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_02: And it was like her saying to me, I think it was a 2022 into 23, maybe you should just more do this for personal development.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_01: So basically, that's why you thought that.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_01: But she also was telling you to not do the thing that you knew you were meant to do, which probably caused a lot of cognitive dissonance because you are feeling called to do this thing that feels like your purpose, and she's telling you no.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_02: And she did it in a group too.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_02: And that was the first time I experienced a group.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_02: I had witnessed other people being told things in a group that they weren't doing the social media thing, or they weren't doing the money making, or they weren't doing things right, you know, which I was kind of like, oh, and it was the first time she said in this group to me that she said, Brenda, like we've talked about before, forgiveness is not.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, they need it, but that's not how you need to approach it.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_02: This is what you need to do.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_02: She would do that.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's it was like three or four conversations.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I, what do I do then?
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you need to figure out something.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_02: That was what led up to then.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_02: I think you just need to go get a job, go get hired from this coaching.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of them out there.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_02: Why don't you do that?
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: So do you feel like that made you like halt your business?
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas in another reality you would have continued, or like what happened for you business-wise?
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_02: Well, like I said, in reflection, which I was already in doing the fight or flight thing, right?
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_02: Already trying to find my place in building the business and getting it going.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_02: I wasn't realizing I was having the push-pull energy already within me, which was being fed by her.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_02: And that's really when I thought, okay, maybe I'm not cut out for this.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_02: Because I'm also hearing from her, she was having conversations in these groups of some people are meant to be entrepreneurs and some people aren't.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_02: But she's not being specific.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_02: So now I'm inferring that, oh, I'm not meant to be one.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_01: What did that do to your just like sense of self or sense of confidence?
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how did that affect you on the inside?
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, it plummeted because now there's more confusion.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_02: So now whatever I tried to do in my business is not gonna kind of work because I'm confused.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_02: So if I'm confused, clients are gonna be confused.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_02: So then I'm like, okay, maybe I need to retire.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_02: And not do this at all.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_02: But then this other part of me is no, I would be in tears thinking about not doing my business.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_02: Bathroom floor moment, like sobbing and thinking about not doing my business.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_02: But then now I can't go to her because she's already told me to go get a job.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: The pivot from Brenda, let's not work on your business anymore, to Brenda, let's just do this for personal development.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_00: What was the focus when you started on the personal development track?
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'll call it.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_00: Very I call it very loosely a track.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, it was to help me with the trauma, because by then now, right, she's I've got this childhood trauma that she's an expert in.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, because suddenly after real estate and MLM and money, now she is the trauma-informed go-to person.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, she had done that for several years, right?
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_02: Focused on the trauma thing after 2020 was all that bullshit.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and then she tried to copy all my stuff and accuse me of copying off of her.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, and I hear those.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought, gosh, I never had that issue because she never thought I was a good business person.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_02: So she didn't copy me.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's why she told you not to do the business because she didn't want to copy off of you.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like, Brenda has nothing for me to copy.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know what?
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna tell her to go get a job.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_01: There you go.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's perfect.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_01: I can't copy forgiveness.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's what it is, Brenda.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I have to take a time out here because I want to explain to our audience something.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_00: Barb and I did a crossover episode on Two Shrinks on the Farm where we talked about what was going on psychologically and from a personality perspective with Betty.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things toward the end of this episode, Barb said, is that in indigenous cultures, when there's somebody in the in the community who's misbehaving as a spiritual leader, aka like what we're seeing with Betty, one of the first approaches that the community will take is to make fun of them.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's perfect for me because I have a lot of material.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_00: And she gives this example of one of her spiritual teachers, Delmar, who's from the Apache community here in Arizona, how he tells a story about when he was young making some egregious ego-based decisions as a young healer or a young spiritual leader in the community.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_00: His elders made him go out and gather a bunch of shit from all of the different animals, the coyote shit and the owl shit, and put it in a circle and sit in the circle and meditate and find a vision in the circle of other beings shit.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_00: And they laughed at him as he did it.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what I'm talking about.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like when we're making fun of her, that's actually on the same frequency as what we would see in an indigenous culture due to somebody who's misbehaving in a spiritual path.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_00: In other words, I'm giving us permission to continue making fun of Betty and her.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there we go.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: It gives me the best, Robin.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so we're making fun of her, and we also do that because laughter is an antidote to some of these painful things that you experienced, of course.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go back to so she now she wants to work with you on trauma.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yeah.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_02: So how how'd that go?
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_02: So this is where she dives in, she does this session where she's looking at my trauma or my past or whatever, however, we want to term that.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_02: And she tells me, because I I've always had this vision of something happening to me when I was about three years old.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_02: There was a separation with myself and my mother, because I thought there's just something strong, always been, and I've always tried to figure this out.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_02: So, of course, I share this with her.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_02: And she said, Oh, your mom was in a cult.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_02: There we go, Robin.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_02: There it is.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's what she found.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_02: She found the implants and the thing.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_02: My mom was in a cult, and I witnessed it.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, that doesn't quite fit.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_02: Because I was at home with my mom until I was five, until they got divorced, and then she had to go to work.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_00: Wait, wait, wait.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_00: Was your mom what religion was she again?
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_00: Was she Catholic or was she?
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_02: She became Catholic, but she was different.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_02: She was four square, she was non-denominational, then she went Catholic, but she didn't go Catholic till my teenagers.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_02: But what she was in was a Wiccan because my mom was very intuitive.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I think she was searching for people like her who to get her.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_02: And so I know that she was involved with magic.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna call it magic.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_02: And my sister told me she was who got involved with this coven that something went wrong.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_02: But that wasn't until I was like eight or nine that that kind of happened.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't remember it, but my older sister does.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_02: And she remembers going there with her and stuff.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_02: She says something happened with the leader thing, and mom got out of it.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_02: So, in a way, I never thought of that as a cult kind of thing.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_02: And it I don't know if she was in it for very long.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_02: But anyway, your mom's in a cult.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_02: And when I had my brain tumor, she goes, Oh, brain tumors are all about people who are in cults.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_02: Really?
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_01: This is very interesting because when because Nicole has this theory that that Betty had a brain tumor, and that's why she became a different person.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, that, and I said, there was this whole storyline on General Hospital at one point where there was a guy who had a brain tumor, and he like changed personalities and he started like murdering people.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_01: And then when they took the brain tumor out, he became normal again.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_01: And then the question was like, should he be like prosecuted for these?
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, but you guys and Brenda, you were with Betty in Croatia.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_00: Did you see how her head was different?
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_00: She always had bangs, but her forehead was bulbous.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_00: She talked about in some of her whatever lives or trainings or whatever about how the guides had to adjust her skull in order to accommodate these new changes for her.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it was a brain tumor.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_02: Cause sometimes you don't even know the brain tumors there.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't until I was going blind in my eye, but yeah.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_02: So you had a brain tumor, and then how did that relate to all of this?
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_02: Because that's what she had.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_02: So she always found meaning in something, like in whatever ailment you had, had to do with something.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_02: So that was very cult related.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_02: So that showed her that I had been involved in a cult too.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_02: So there was these cults.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_02: So she was planting a seed, like cult, cult, cult.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_00: I always want to wonder where did she get all this information about cults?
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like, where did that come from?
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_00: She seemed to have all of this information, and I never thought to ask, or maybe it was just erased from my capacity to ask.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_00: But when I look back at it critically, like, where did she get all this information about friggin' cults?
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_00: Unless she was about to start one, or in one already.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_02: Or in one already.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_02: You're right, because she talked a lot about them, especially the last four years.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_02: She talked a lot.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_02: And and she would bring that up whenever she would be using me as an example in these groups, right?
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_02: Wait, wait, wait.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_02: She used you as an example.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, talking about the cult.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like with Brenda, we found the brain tumor was a cult and that her mother was in the cult.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_00: So she was disclosing personal information about you.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_00: In a group.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_00: In a group.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_01: We don't even know is true.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_01: The only way that you know that's true is her quote unquote saying it, which is obviously bullshit.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, so it's not like we've confirmed this information.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_01: So she's made up shit about you and is now telling the entire group about it.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_00: And because she would always say truth has a frequency and she's only capable of speaking the truth, then we have to take her word for it.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, at the time, I'm not I'm not gonna correct her.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no, because if you correct her, I don't want to get in trouble.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the whole thing.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_02: It was just this very strange differentiation of authority and me still.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_02: And there was this weird, I remember thinking, why do I come back?
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_02: I remember having those thoughts, but I did it anyway.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_02: Now, going back, it's like I was overriding my intuitiveness.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_02: I really was overriding these thoughts because now I'm doing that, I'm taking these classes going into 2023, right?
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_02: And then that's when the offer came out for the mastermind or the retreat.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_00: I want to highlight something here, overriding intuition.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_00: We have intuition, and then there is external influence, and it is very, very hard to discern which is which, especially when you're in high control environments, coercive environments.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_00: We mistake the influence, the psychological influence, the emotional, the psychic influence for our intuition.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to just bring that forward as just to contextualize what we're talking about here.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, thank you.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so 2023 rolls around the offer to attend the retreat in Santa Fe.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and this was fascinating because I saw the first one come out, and this is 2023, is when things are really escalating with my husband with the dementia process.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's really getting, I'm a wreck because he's getting worse.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know what to do.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_02: The good thing is, is she's not saying anything about my husband because he's already gone.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_02: So she didn't have to do anything about the only thing she would do earlier on was like, you can talk your husband into helping invest in the real estate kind of thing.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_02: That's the only thing she ever did.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_02: She didn't say anything about my relationship.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_02: I witnessed her saying things about your guys' and other people's.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_02: So she never did do that.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe because she knew he was already half gone.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so I really debate, I saw the thing, and then I thought, I love Santa Fe.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm like, oh, I'd love to go there.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_02: But I just didn't feel right.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_02: So then I get the message.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_02: I'm feeling it right.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I do this back here because that's where I was feeling it.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_02: I'm feeling it back here.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, oh, that'd be really good.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_02: That'd be really good.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_02: And then so I start thinking about it, and then I get the message saying, I really feel like you're you really are supposed to be here.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not attached.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_02: I always hated that when she would do that.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not attached.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_02: Because I always have this feeling, like, yeah, you are attached.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_02: You yeah, yeah, I don't know if you want me for me.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I was feeling, right?
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't know.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_02: I just had this thing with her where I don't have it with other people, you know.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_02: I can tell.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_02: And it was like, do you really want to help me?
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_02: Or you just want another body there?
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you just want money kind of thing.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_00: Is she seeing it as a person or is she seeing it as dollar signs?
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, exactly.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what I was feeling.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_02: And then I got the message and it just hit me at the right time.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_02: We can talk if you want.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, you know, I don't know.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_02: Things are going on with Doug, da da da.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_02: And so she left it there.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_02: And then I got this other email that came out, and it was weird because all of a sudden I went, Yes, it was weird.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_02: I was signing up before I even could think about it.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_02: How did I do that?
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_02: It was very interesting.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so then I signed up and I went.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_01: So you go to Santa Fe, why don't you take us through like objectively just like what happened there?
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so I know that we've heard about this from different people.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_02: And so when we gathered there, I was the first one I think that did the hot seat.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_02: We had the hot seats, right?
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_02: We knew we were planning.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_02: That was the plan was to have the hot seat.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I got I got in trouble in my hot seat.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_02: So right away she was in her mode of coaching, and I got called out of the group because I wasn't raising my hand to offer because I was afraid all along, I was afraid to say anything.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_02: There is this, I don't want to bring attention, I don't want to get in trouble.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_02: I had this feeling with her a lot, and it's kind of weird, right?
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_02: When you think back of why would you even stay with someone like that?
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_02: But I was thinking that I had something to learn, that it was me, right?
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_02: It was me.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_02: I'm the problem, I'm the one that doesn't get it.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_02: I'm the one, like we've heard.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_02: So I get called, we're out in this beautiful area outside, and immediately she says to me that, okay, tell us about what's going on in your business and what you want help with.
• 58:37
  SPEAKER_02: And it was like, okay, now I feel like I can establish my business.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like I want to.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_02: Now I'm not realizing nerve, nervous system-wise, I'm not ready to do that, but I I'm grasping, right?
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm wanting some help.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, you know, I wanted to build this business and and make money and and help people, and da da da da.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_02: And she goes, then you need to quit because I had done a summit.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_02: You hosted a summit.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_02: I hosted, thank you.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_00: I had hosted a summit, which is a great way to build your list, to get exposure, to establish yourself as a leader.
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_00: All of the things that we know from a business perspective make complete sense.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_00: And she says to you.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_02: So she says to me that I that I really fucked up.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_02: Oh.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_02: Quote unquote.
• 59:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_02: That I shouldn't have done that.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_02: I wasn't in a place to do that, and I wasted too much money.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_02: And if I'm gonna continue to make these kind of decisions, then I really don't need to be having this business.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_02: And this is in front of the group.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's really funny because I remember there it being really hard to hear.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_01: Wherever we were standing, it was very hard to hear.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel like I heard bits and pieces of it, but I didn't hear the whole thing, and I didn't realize that that's what she said to you.
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I would also like to point out this was outside in a public place.
• 59:54
  SPEAKER_00: And do you guys remember we were sitting around at one of the like a sacred sites, and all of a sudden this rando woman just comes up and stands in our group?
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, I remember.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_00: It was the strangest thing, but all this to say that it wasn't there, and by the way, of course, there were no no group norms set up.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_00: There was no this is a safe space, there was no no kind of norm setting in terms of how we're going to do things in this community that we have formed.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_00: So there was no group leadership established by Betty.
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then she just reveals in front of God and everybody out in the open that you've really fucked up your business because you decided to do this list building summer thing.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_02: And who she was all for it when I had talked with her before doing it.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_00: Of course she was.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, she was like, she all for it.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, I'll even be a guest on it.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_02: She was like in agreement.
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_02: And interestingly enough, she created one right after that.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_02: Of course she did.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, she did copy you.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's true.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, she did copy you.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, there we go.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_00: There's the there's the leveraging of your your life force, your creativity, your energy, and just basically hijacking it and bringing it into her business.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because she hadn't created it until then.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_02: And then it was put together in a flash, of course.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_02: And because I thought, well, what?
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_02: What?
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, she agreed.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_02: So then another, what I'm getting chastised, you know, it's kind of like, yeah, honey, go ahead and do this, it'd be great for you.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's awesome.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_02: And then how dare you do that?
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_02: And then what other kind of decisions are you making financially?
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so she asked me that in front of the group.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_02: Where else are you leaking money?
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_02: And then it shifted to, and I can't remember what else was said, because by then I'm like, You're like out of your body.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_02: I'm totally out because I don't I know a few people in the group, like at least I didn't really even know you.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_02: I knew Robin a little bit, but not even, and I was like, okay, and then she asks for input from people, you know.
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, what are you all getting for this?
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_02: And luckily, Robin, you came forward and said something about Doug, honey.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_02: Do you really feel that you can do this because of him?
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_02: And da-da-da.
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_02: And then I went into tears because it was like, no, I mean, it was, I'm sorry.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, no, no, it was okay, but it was it brought out the truth, right?
• 1:02:14
  SPEAKER_02: You were bringing you came forward with the compassion that I wasn't getting.
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_02: And then even Andrea was in the group and she came forward with, Oh, I see a Phoenix, which is my logo, and she didn't know me.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_02: She goes, I see a phoenix and I see it flying.
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's like totally out of the ashes, and I see so getting this information, no, this is what you're supposed to be doing.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_02: So that's how it started.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_02: And then we did only just a couple more of those, and then it happened.
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_00: What was your experience leading up to it happened?
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_00: And by it happening, we're talking about the entity and the air quotes walk-in personality change, everything changed, entity is in body leading up to that.
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_00: What did you notice?
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_00: What were you, what did you become more and more aware of?
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_00: Anything like that?
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_02: So, what happened was you know, we're in this room, and even before my hot seat, the way that when I walked in, people were there, and the seat available was the one next to her, next to Betty.
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's like, oh, you know, kind of I didn't want to be by the teacher kind of thing.
• 1:03:23
  SPEAKER_02: But I sat and the first thing she did, she's hands me the bottle and says, Can you open this?
• 1:03:28
  SPEAKER_02: How did you feel?
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, Why?
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_02: Why do I need to open this?
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_02: But then again, I went, okay, because I that's the kind of person I am.
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_02: Not really realizing that I'm that's a kind of a way of saying, Oh, I'm in agreement here with giving away my power.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I had that experience at the first retreat I went to with her, and it was that opening myself up, agreeing to something that I didn't know I was agreeing to.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_02: You know, at that point in time it was like, hey, sweetie, good to see you.
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_02: But what I noticed about, I thought I had not seen her in person.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_02: That's the first time I got to see her in person.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought, wow, just seeing her, because I had known that she had been going through some stuff, doing all these fasts and different things that she was saying was the best thing ever and stuff, but she did not look healthy at all.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_02: I was concerned because I'm like, oh, and she's not eating and she's only drinking the stuff that she kept asking different people, different people to open the bottle for her.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I just thought, this is really odd.
• 1:04:32
  SPEAKER_02: Is she that weak that she can't open the bottle?
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_02: So then she presented more like the person that I thought that I had witnessed in groups.
• 1:04:44
  SPEAKER_02: She was more like, This is the agenda, this is what we're gonna do.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_02: You know, if you have questions, this is about being together and learning how we can do stuff.
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_02: So we did a few exercises.
• 1:04:55
  SPEAKER_02: So it was a normal, but uh I thought what was fascinating was there were points in time where the energy shifted with her, where she would be a little bit more I'm gonna call it direct, but the tone was a little bit sharp with certain people, right?
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_02: And especially the person who was also a participant, but also helping her out with the retreat with the food and with the stuff.
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_02: The retreat assistant.
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_02: And how she would get a little sharp with her, right?
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like, where's this?
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_02: What's that?
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_02: And then she'd go back to the okay, sweeties kind of thing.
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought, wow, this is just really uh different.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_02: So I I want to get to that uh to the walk-in because uh the night before seemed to be okay.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_02: We dispersed, and then the next morning we're like waiting to go into the room and we can't, and we're told no, don't.
• 1:05:51
  SPEAKER_02: But when we were finally came in and she comes out and can't walk right and is very acting very strangely, it made sense to me.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_02: Because I had already seen, I told you this, Robin, John of God.
• 1:06:03
  SPEAKER_02: I had experienced John of God.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_02: He's in Brazil, been since he's like in his 80s or something.
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_02: But since 17 years old, he embodied these entities from the 1800s that were doctors.
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_02: And he's healed thousands, millions of people through the years.
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_02: And in 2013, I had gone to see John of God.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_02: I did this whole trek with this person, and we went down and I could feel a difference, right?
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_02: But what would happen is he would we they called it incorporation.
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_02: So he would incorporate these different doctors, and these people would line up in front of him and just come forward massive amounts of people every day.
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_02: And you just walk in front of him, and you would just get this kind of idea of either they got the healing.
• 1:06:51
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I watched people walk that weren't able to walk.
• 1:06:55
  SPEAKER_02: So sometimes you'd have to go to this, you'd go do a you'd get a prescription of taking these little drops or which were infused, right?
• 1:07:04
  SPEAKER_02: Drops homeopathic, or you would go do these John of God crystal beds, they were called.
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_02: So these beds are just these beds like a massage table with these crystals that hang down for your chakras.
• 1:07:16
  SPEAKER_02: But the these entities would work on you.
• 1:07:19
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, my body moved all by itself.
• 1:07:21
  SPEAKER_02: I've got this experience of seeing John of God as a person, like a businessman, and then see him walk like this, do the robotic thing because of these entities incorporate.
• 1:07:32
  SPEAKER_00: So when you see Betty for the first time since this air quote walk-in entity comes in, it's not that I don't believe in it in walk-ins, it's not that, but I'm I've got some sarcasm that I'm still working through.
• 1:07:44
  SPEAKER_00: So you see this and it you relate it to this earlier experience with John of God, who has this track record of healing thousands and thousands of people.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so it occurs to you what?
• 1:07:56
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it occurs to me because when they she started explaining it, right?
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_02: This is what happened and who this thing is, who the entity is and stuff.
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_02: I'm surprised.
• 1:08:06
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, oh, I wasn't expecting that at all.
• 1:08:08
  SPEAKER_02: But it's like, okay, it makes sense.
• 1:08:11
  SPEAKER_02: The thing was with John of God, though, he doesn't stay that way, right?
• 1:08:15
  SPEAKER_02: They come in, they go out, they come in, they go out.
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm like, I know quite a few people in the group were like totally shocked and didn't understand.
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_02: So at least I'm like, okay, because at first you're going, is this real?
• 1:08:27
  SPEAKER_02: And you go, oh, I've witnessed this before.
• 1:08:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so you had a frame of reference for it.
• 1:08:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:08:33
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'm thinking, because my experience is good, right?
• 1:08:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's not evil, it's good, right?
• 1:08:40
  SPEAKER_02: Helping to heal people and stuff.
• 1:08:42
  SPEAKER_02: And so this goes along with what she's saying.
• 1:08:45
  SPEAKER_02: What Betty is saying is this is all of for the light.
• 1:08:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's all of the light, and we're here and bring heaven to earth, or whatever it was that she was saying.
• 1:08:54
  SPEAKER_02: And the interesting thing was, I thought she was nicer.
• 1:08:59
  SPEAKER_01: She was as I agree with you.
• 1:09:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think in the beginning she was nicer.
• 1:09:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:09:04
  SPEAKER_01: In the beginning, like during that time that we were there, and then maybe a week or so afterwards, she was nicer, or at least seeming nicer.
• 1:09:13
  SPEAKER_02: Seeming, yeah, seeming, seeming nicer because we got to see it in there in Santa Fe.
• 1:09:19
  SPEAKER_02: We got to see how it she would blow up and then come back, and blow up and come back.
• 1:09:24
  SPEAKER_02: When you say blow up, can you give an example of what that looked like?
• 1:09:28
  SPEAKER_02: Angry.
• 1:09:28
  SPEAKER_02: Well, yeah, like when, for instance, that one one of our participants had been so-called taken advantage of by a male where she felt that she had had, where we went out to this spot and she would just she just got angry and she yelled and she stomped her foot.
• 1:09:45
  SPEAKER_02: And going from this the really passive, kind of nice.
• 1:09:48
  SPEAKER_00: I have to interrupt you here.
• 1:09:49
  SPEAKER_00: It was not one of the participants, it was her.
• 1:09:52
  SPEAKER_00: She's the one who claims that that man took advantage of her and took advantage of her.
• 1:09:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so, did he?
• 1:09:59
  SPEAKER_00: We don't know.
• 1:10:00
  SPEAKER_00: He could have, but that that's her story.
• 1:10:03
  SPEAKER_00: That was her story that she was the man who was guiding them on this spiritual experience, held her from behind and made a pass at her.
• 1:10:12
  SPEAKER_00: And in fact, at least do you remember she demonstrated?
• 1:10:15
  SPEAKER_00: Were you in the room when she demonstrated using me as the model of how he gripped her?
• 1:10:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:10:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:10:22
  SPEAKER_00: So just to be clear, it wasn't in the service of another person, another participant, it was her.
• 1:10:28
  SPEAKER_02: I was thinking because the participant he had placed somewhere to look away.
• 1:10:32
  SPEAKER_02: That's what that's what I was thinking.
• 1:10:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:10:34
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't mean to make you wrong.
• 1:10:35
  SPEAKER_00: I just wanted for clarity.
• 1:10:37
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, no, no, no, you're right.
• 1:10:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's totally right.
• 1:10:39
  SPEAKER_00: And when I look back, it was part of the agenda, her agenda to pit us against them.
• 1:10:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:10:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought that that was it was disconcerting, right?
• 1:10:48
  SPEAKER_02: This feeling of all the while having this feeling of what's gonna happen here.
• 1:10:55
  SPEAKER_02: Because, you know, I had this experience, so I thought, okay, this can happen, but it wasn't going away.
• 1:11:01
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't going back out, like my experience.
• 1:11:04
  SPEAKER_02: And then seeing this kind of anger burst, and then not.
• 1:11:09
  SPEAKER_02: And then, like we've talked, you you guys have talked about in other episodes about this whole experience with one of the participants that thought that there was some evil going on and we had to extract it.
• 1:11:22
  SPEAKER_02: And really, I think it was just really the kind of pinnacle of taking our energy.
• 1:11:30
  SPEAKER_02: I really think, because these women are powerful in this room.
• 1:11:35
  SPEAKER_02: All of us were like so good, giving, compassionate, so gifted, and not really realizing what we were doing, what was happening.
• 1:11:45
  SPEAKER_00: There was no full disclosure about what was happening.
• 1:11:48
  SPEAKER_00: We were led to believe something.
• 1:11:50
  SPEAKER_00: Is there anything else that you want to bring forward about the Santa Fe retreat?
• 1:11:55
  SPEAKER_00: Because then we have to flash forward because you and I were together in Croatia as well.
• 1:12:00
  SPEAKER_02: No, I think that that just led up to this period of time where we watched her change.
• 1:12:08
  SPEAKER_02: I watched her change, and other people have said the same thing to go from this nice thing person to not so nice, to where before Croatia I had another time because we were into these groups again, and I'm thinking, okay, is this I'm trying to, I'm starting to go.
• 1:12:29
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if this is for the good of all, right?
• 1:12:31
  SPEAKER_02: With her, with her behavior and and what she was doing and stuff.
• 1:12:35
  SPEAKER_02: And then having the experience, and Robin, you mentioned this, I think, on yours, too.
• 1:12:40
  SPEAKER_02: Having the experience of I'm in these groups, and now there's these all these groups, she kept changing them, and there's never a a one place to find a Zoom link, or there's not a there's not like the website is screwed up and I couldn't find anything.
• 1:12:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I had now witnessed several people getting shamed for asking questions in these groups.
• 1:12:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like she is now not so nice, she's just more in the shame, and and I can't give an exact example, but I'm witnessing that.
• 1:13:07
  SPEAKER_02: So now I'm not gonna ask where this Zoom link is for this group that's been changed.
• 1:13:13
  SPEAKER_02: I email her assistant, and I'm not gonna ask her or the group.
• 1:13:19
  SPEAKER_02: I email the assistant.
• 1:13:22
  SPEAKER_02: The assistant evidently tells her because I get this voxer, I mean that's yelling.
• 1:13:27
  SPEAKER_00: The assistant was her.
• 1:13:29
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, just so we're clear.
• 1:13:31
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, thank you.
• 1:13:33
  SPEAKER_02: So there we go.
• 1:13:34
  SPEAKER_02: I thought it was a person.
• 1:13:36
  SPEAKER_00: Elise, do you want to add anything to that?
• 1:13:40
  SPEAKER_01: First of all, anyone who worked for her, I think just went off the deep end because she was so nutty.
• 1:13:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that at that time probably she didn't have anybody because like they had left.
• 1:13:54
  SPEAKER_01: But of course, she would act like she does, right?
• 1:13:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like she acts like she had a team.
• 1:13:58
  SPEAKER_01: I've never really seen her have a team.
• 1:14:01
  SPEAKER_01: I know she had one person at one time, but but that was pretty much it.
• 1:14:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so that makes sense.
• 1:14:08
  SPEAKER_01: It would have been her.
• 1:14:09
  SPEAKER_01: But again, it's like I can't with all this crap.
• 1:14:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's the most and and that's why it's really hard for me to believe that she made anywhere close to the kind of money she claimed to make, because you can't run a business that way.
• 1:14:22
  SPEAKER_01: As a business owner, now five years in, you can't run your business like that.
• 1:14:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like where you don't have systems, you don't have a platform for your courses.
• 1:14:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like it just is obvious.
• 1:14:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you're not whatever.
• 1:14:36
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so she's left you a voxer screaming.
• 1:14:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:14:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so what I remember is it was just interesting because this is just a few months before we started the Croatia stuff.
• 1:14:48
  SPEAKER_02: I just remember hearing this voxer and just like, how dare you?
• 1:14:52
  SPEAKER_02: You should know better than this.
• 1:14:53
  SPEAKER_02: If this is how you're treating, if you're not paying attention to where these Zoom links are and your schedule and what's going on, because it's very clear.
• 1:15:01
  SPEAKER_02: That's what she said.
• 1:15:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's very clear, then you need to not be running a business and you need to.
• 1:15:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember just I mean, just freeze.
• 1:15:12
  SPEAKER_02: Frozen.
• 1:15:12
  SPEAKER_02: What came out of that message was like frozen.
• 1:15:16
  SPEAKER_02: Venom.
• 1:15:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was total.
• 1:15:18
  SPEAKER_02: I remember standing in my bedroom, like going, and then getting a boxer a little later going, hey sweetie, how you know, I'm just checking in on you.
• 1:15:27
  SPEAKER_02: I can't even answer.
• 1:15:28
  SPEAKER_02: I can't.
• 1:15:29
  SPEAKER_02: I don't even, but at the same time, it's like a part of me.
• 1:15:34
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not leaving the groups, right?
• 1:15:37
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not like I'm done with this shit, like a healthy person with like I'm done with this, I'm out.
• 1:15:42
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not doing that.
• 1:15:44
  SPEAKER_00: So that didn't break the spell.
• 1:15:46
  SPEAKER_00: Nope.
• 1:15:47
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's fine.
• 1:15:49
  SPEAKER_00: Something at some point breaks the spell, but we're not there yet.
• 1:15:53
  SPEAKER_02: So then we start hearing about Croatia.
• 1:15:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, no, I I don't want to go.
• 1:16:01
  SPEAKER_00: We're laughing because we had a conversation about are you going or not going?
• 1:16:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I said, I don't remember exactly what I said, but I would have said something along the lines of, I feel like I just have to go.
• 1:16:12
  SPEAKER_00: I really honestly didn't feel like I had a choice other than I have to go.
• 1:16:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 1:16:18
  SPEAKER_02: And oh, oh, I forgot to, I was gonna tell you this, Robin, too, because I remembered this.
• 1:16:23
  SPEAKER_02: Because Robin and I had started working with Robin a little bit at this point in time.
• 1:16:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember Betty saying to me something about Robin is trying to take my clients.
• 1:16:36
  SPEAKER_02: I remember her saying that on like a call or whatever that was before she yelled at me.
• 1:16:41
  SPEAKER_02: I remember that.
• 1:16:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I didn't say anything.
• 1:16:44
  SPEAKER_02: I just went, hmm.
• 1:16:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, well, if you were a little nicer, maybe.
• 1:16:50
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't trying.
• 1:16:52
  SPEAKER_02: No, you weren't.
• 1:16:53
  SPEAKER_02: No, we were coming to you for a reason, right?
• 1:16:56
  SPEAKER_02: For sanity and for guidance and for help.
• 1:17:00
  SPEAKER_02: Anyway, so I'd had this conversation.
• 1:17:03
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like, no, I don't want to go.
• 1:17:05
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, that more messages are coming out.
• 1:17:07
  SPEAKER_02: And and even she sends the boxer, I feel like you're supposed to be here.
• 1:17:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, yeah, whatever.
• 1:17:12
  SPEAKER_02: No, but then I'm like, I don't want to go.
• 1:17:15
  SPEAKER_02: But then I talk to Robin and I talk to someone else, and I'm like, they're going.
• 1:17:19
  SPEAKER_02: And then she's claiming this thing about this is we're supposed to help humanity and this whole reason for Gorasia.
• 1:17:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, oh, huh.
• 1:17:30
  SPEAKER_02: Reclaiming your original coding.
• 1:17:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 1:17:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:17:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, oh, so then I start this spark.
• 1:17:37
  SPEAKER_02: Then I thought, okay, well, let me check into this then.
• 1:17:39
  SPEAKER_02: And it was weird because I couldn't figure out the flights and I couldn't have Rob and I had this conversation.
• 1:17:44
  SPEAKER_02: She's like, I'm really struggling with these flight things, and she's like, Me too.
• 1:17:48
  SPEAKER_00: And the universe is giving us all of the signals.
• 1:17:52
  SPEAKER_00: Stay the fuck home.
• 1:17:54
  SPEAKER_02: It is.
• 1:17:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, no, move.
• 1:17:56
  SPEAKER_02: I'm trying to I like suffering.
• 1:18:00
  SPEAKER_02: Move out of my way.
• 1:18:02
  SPEAKER_02: What I learned from that is Brenda, listen.
• 1:18:06
  SPEAKER_02: Listen to yourself.
• 1:18:08
  SPEAKER_02: Because I didn't.
• 1:18:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember a friend of mine going, This feels odd.
• 1:18:14
  SPEAKER_02: She asked to see the agenda.
• 1:18:16
  SPEAKER_02: She goes, okay.
• 1:18:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I send it to her and she goes, This is like some really kind of weird stuff.
• 1:18:21
  SPEAKER_02: Because she wasn't totally used to spiritual.
• 1:18:23
  SPEAKER_02: And there is some cleansings and you guys know the activations and all this.
• 1:18:28
  SPEAKER_02: She goes, Wow, this feels weird.
• 1:18:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, Well, it's kind of normal for it, it wasn't weird to me.
• 1:18:33
  SPEAKER_02: She goes, Huh, it feels just feels straight.
• 1:18:35
  SPEAKER_02: You sure you want to go?
• 1:18:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, By that time, I'm committed.
• 1:18:39
  SPEAKER_02: I said, Well, I have my flight, I got the stuff.
• 1:18:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 1:18:43
  SPEAKER_02: So Croatia was, you know, when I get there, again, it's I loved being with the people, right?
• 1:18:51
  SPEAKER_02: The group.
• 1:18:51
  SPEAKER_02: That's what was so good about it.
• 1:18:54
  SPEAKER_02: But there was just some very weird there was just certain things stick out to me as far as at first, you know, the dinner the first night, like being in that open, like you guys have talked about, was like, this is interesting.
• 1:19:10
  SPEAKER_02: She had two people helping her with this retreat, and it just seemed chaotic from the beginning.
• 1:19:18
  SPEAKER_02: What is wrong here?
• 1:19:20
  SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, having the experience right away the next date, the agenda's changing.
• 1:19:27
  SPEAKER_02: And she's starting, in my memory, starting to make changes and starting to really be freaking out about people and being watched, and we have to find a private spot.
• 1:19:41
  SPEAKER_02: And it was just this very odd experience.
• 1:19:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm starting to feel like, oh what?
• 1:19:48
  SPEAKER_02: Uh-oh.
• 1:19:48
  SPEAKER_02: Just the tingling happening in my body, like, huh?
• 1:19:52
  SPEAKER_02: So it already started that way.
• 1:19:54
  SPEAKER_02: And then she started, then she started having us protecting her almost right away.
• 1:20:00
  SPEAKER_02: And carrying her bag for her, doing stuff.
• 1:20:04
  SPEAKER_00: What was in your memory the first like turning point?
• 1:20:09
  SPEAKER_00: Was there a specific moment that you remember being like something's really off here?
• 1:20:14
  SPEAKER_00: Or the moment that you realized that she was asking us to protect her?
• 1:20:18
  SPEAKER_02: One stuck out when we were going up to the sacred site, and there was a guy standing, sitting on the pathway doing the guitar thing, the singing thing.
• 1:20:28
  SPEAKER_00: Busking, like busking on a street corner.
• 1:20:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:20:31
  SPEAKER_02: You know, where you could throw money into the guitar case kind of thing.
• 1:20:35
  SPEAKER_02: And he sang a song and he said the word, a certain word that she claimed that she was, who she was.
• 1:20:44
  SPEAKER_00: Did you hear that personally?
• 1:20:47
  SPEAKER_00: I did.
• 1:20:47
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:20:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he did, but it wasn't her, it was the thing that it represented.
• 1:20:54
  SPEAKER_02: Because that thing, because I asked later one of the guides, because she was making this huge deal out of freaking out, huge deal.
• 1:21:03
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, they're out to get me.
• 1:21:04
  SPEAKER_02: See, they're everywhere.
• 1:21:06
  SPEAKER_02: That's when she started that.
• 1:21:07
  SPEAKER_02: That's when I was like, What?
• 1:21:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I asked one of the guides who is from there.
• 1:21:13
  SPEAKER_02: She goes, Oh, yeah, that's a very popular song.
• 1:21:15
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody sings it.
• 1:21:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's just but it what it showed me was where she was extracting certain things, which I didn't realize at the time.
• 1:21:25
  SPEAKER_02: This is later.
• 1:21:26
  SPEAKER_02: She was extracting through and blowing it up, like making it, making it already something big.
• 1:21:32
  SPEAKER_02: And for me, as the time went on, my nervous system, because again, our everything's changing, the food, the water, we're we're changing restaurant, we're not stopping at places, we're we're not doing the thing.
• 1:21:48
  SPEAKER_02: So we're already thrown off.
• 1:21:51
  SPEAKER_02: So my nervous system is getting more and more heightened.
• 1:21:53
  SPEAKER_02: So that was the first time when I went, huh?
• 1:21:56
  SPEAKER_02: And then we went to this other sacred site that I think that you talked about, Robin, where you had your epiphany there, kind of like of what, oh, here, what I meant for.
• 1:22:07
  SPEAKER_02: And for me, I didn't feel what she was saying was happening there.
• 1:22:12
  SPEAKER_02: I just didn't feel it for me.
• 1:22:15
  SPEAKER_02: But she was claiming that these women remember that we were sitting in a group and this woman was next to us, and she wanted us to really push this woman away.
• 1:22:24
  SPEAKER_02: And this kept happening.
• 1:22:26
  SPEAKER_02: It was just odd.
• 1:22:29
  SPEAKER_02: I'm starting to now, it's really interesting.
• 1:22:31
  SPEAKER_02: Part of me is going, this isn't right.
• 1:22:35
  SPEAKER_02: This isn't real.
• 1:22:37
  SPEAKER_02: The other parts really jacked up, really like the nervousness, like the human part is like, uh-oh, danger, danger, danger, danger.
• 1:22:44
  SPEAKER_02: And this other part of me is going, nope, not real, not real.
• 1:22:49
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm really grateful for that because I think that kind of helped me from really being hijacked completely.
• 1:22:56
  SPEAKER_02: And there's so many little nuances.
• 1:22:59
  SPEAKER_02: I don't even know what to say totally about them.
• 1:23:02
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I want to ask a couple of things and Elise jump in here as well.
• 1:23:06
  SPEAKER_00: We've talked about this.
• 1:23:07
  SPEAKER_00: Were you given tea?
• 1:23:08
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 1:23:09
  SPEAKER_00: Tell us about your experience with the tea.
• 1:23:11
  SPEAKER_02: We were gonna do a ceremony with these tea leaves, and I had never heard of them before.
• 1:23:17
  SPEAKER_02: They were in this little package, it was really kind of weird.
• 1:23:20
  SPEAKER_02: And when we did it, she had somebody else who was, I think you talked about this, that did these kind of tincture stuff.
• 1:23:27
  SPEAKER_02: And the whole ceremony was an interesting thing.
• 1:23:30
  SPEAKER_02: It was just like to bless you and and business or whatever, but it really affected my stomach.
• 1:23:37
  SPEAKER_02: I felt really weird afterwards.
• 1:23:38
  SPEAKER_02: I felt a little dizzy and I felt nauseous and very, very gastro problems that night and then the next day.
• 1:23:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it didn't feel right.
• 1:23:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I know several of us kind of went, Did you how did you feel?
• 1:23:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, yeah, not good.
• 1:23:54
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I don't know what that was or why, but obviously, there the tea was questionable.
• 1:24:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's come up on a lot of the episodes, and especially with what Barb asked Robin about were you drugged and that whole thing, which obviously we don't know, but who knows?
• 1:24:14
  SPEAKER_01: But obviously, you guys felt weird after and you you don't know what it was.
• 1:24:20
  SPEAKER_01: And there was all these other factors, right?
• 1:24:23
  SPEAKER_01: You hadn't eaten, you hadn't drank water, you were in this heightened state because she keeps telling you all these people are out to get you, throw a tea in the mix and like who knows what.
• 1:24:36
  SPEAKER_00: And in addition to being sleep-deprived and jet legged, all of the conditions are ripe for an altered state of consciousness and to be easily led, I'll say, or compliant with whatever is going on.
• 1:24:50
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, and especially because when you look at the the whole group, we can also see smatterings of childhood trauma and other traumas throughout our lives that would have been known of and then exploited or used as a factor in the in the whole the whole journey.
• 1:25:06
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for saying that because each one of us, she knew all of our traumas, she knew all of our wounds.
• 1:25:13
  SPEAKER_02: And looking back, you can see where she played on them.
• 1:25:17
  SPEAKER_02: The protective, the loyalty to the compassion, because it happened like right away of needing to be protected almost.
• 1:25:24
  SPEAKER_02: And then have several of the other colleagues are like, okay, we're all taking, and we all take kind of control of the situation.
• 1:25:32
  SPEAKER_02: And in several cases, you know, we were also told by certain people that you needed to be right by her side.
• 1:25:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember being at one site and she couldn't even walk hardly on the stones and stuff, and having to help her out, always helping, always there.
• 1:25:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember her saying to me, I remember when we were somewhere, we were going to the other, the other place, and and we were, I think, in an airport, and she was saying, she goes, Wow, I feel like a celebrity.
• 1:26:04
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, we became her entourage.
• 1:26:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm thinking, I'm kind of embarrassed about doing this because she's at this point, each day just got hot more and more and more.
• 1:26:15
  SPEAKER_02: And so to this point where we get to before the real pinnacle of it, as we're getting ready, it's like no one can touch her.
• 1:26:22
  SPEAKER_02: Don't let anybody touch you.
• 1:26:23
  SPEAKER_02: Don't let anybody touch your skin because they're gonna poison you.
• 1:26:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, remember that was played out at the hotel with me when I there was that little plastic square that she found on my shoulder.
• 1:26:33
  SPEAKER_00: Don't know when I got there, but she's the one who pointed it out.
• 1:26:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then she was, of course, more concerned about her because she touched it than she was about me who was having this on for an indeterminate amount of time.
• 1:26:44
  SPEAKER_02: So it was always about her.
• 1:26:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I have these flashes of which I didn't I didn't really grasp.
• 1:26:51
  SPEAKER_02: I guess I couldn't in that state of if you're a light being, like my experience, right?
• 1:26:57
  SPEAKER_02: If you're a light being, why are you panicked?
• 1:27:01
  SPEAKER_02: If you're a light being, why do you feel you're gonna be tortured and killed and all of this stuff?
• 1:27:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I had these flashes.
• 1:27:10
  SPEAKER_02: But the interesting thing about this is we're all having these ideas, as we learned later, but we're not even saying anything to each other.
• 1:27:19
  SPEAKER_02: That was fascinating to me.
• 1:27:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think also you didn't feel safe to do that because I think it was like the fear of what would happen if you went against the narrative of what was going on.
• 1:27:33
  SPEAKER_02: Well, yeah.
• 1:27:34
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, and for me, you know, they were saying, well, you need to sit by her, you know, I have to sit by her, I have to take care of her, you have to take her to the bathroom, you have to, you know, it's like, and see, for me, I'm already like, I'm done with that shit because I'm already deep in it at home.
• 1:27:51
  SPEAKER_02: I'm having to do this at home, and that's what I wanted to get away from.
• 1:27:56
  SPEAKER_02: So my nervous system that I went there to relax and to have some.
• 1:28:00
  SPEAKER_02: Some fun and to learn some things.
• 1:28:02
  SPEAKER_02: I did not want to be put back into this position right there.
• 1:28:07
  SPEAKER_02: My nervous system was already heightened from.
• 1:28:09
  SPEAKER_02: So I was just like, I was going up, up, up instead of down, you know, into the relaxing and not knowing what to say or who to say anything with, because people are also getting kind of don't do that.
• 1:28:23
  SPEAKER_02: And where's the water bottle?
• 1:28:25
  SPEAKER_02: And who's got my water?
• 1:28:26
  SPEAKER_02: Just not even calmly asking.
• 1:28:29
  SPEAKER_02: And it was like, wow.
• 1:28:31
  SPEAKER_02: It was just being in this traumatic home, like growing up, never knowing if mom's gonna yell or love you, right?
• 1:28:39
  SPEAKER_02: Are you gonna get is the belt coming out or not?
• 1:28:43
  SPEAKER_02: So therefore, it was somewhat familiar.
• 1:28:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:28:46
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for sharing that and making that connection.
• 1:28:49
  SPEAKER_01: And then what would you say was like the pinnacle, or is there anything else that you want to share up until that point?
• 1:28:57
  SPEAKER_01: But like, how do how did it all like crescendo for you?
• 1:29:00
  SPEAKER_02: So, as we talked about, where we're all we finally get to this location where we're supposed to spend the next four or five days or the ending.
• 1:29:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember on the bus going to the hotel and looking out, it's beautiful.
• 1:29:16
  SPEAKER_02: Finally, you start to feel like things are relaxing, right?
• 1:29:20
  SPEAKER_02: And even she says, she goes, I think we can have some fun here.
• 1:29:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, Thank God.
• 1:29:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's a new timeline.
• 1:29:28
  SPEAKER_00: Remember, we got on that bus, and it was the time on the clock above was zero, zero, zero, zero.
• 1:29:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:29:34
  SPEAKER_00: We're like, Oh, it's a new timeline.
• 1:29:36
  SPEAKER_00: This is great.
• 1:29:37
  SPEAKER_00: This is gonna be so good.
• 1:29:38
  SPEAKER_02: And then and then we get to the hotel, it all goes to hell.
• 1:29:44
  SPEAKER_02: Then the room assignments aren't quite the way they're supposed to be, and and stuff, and then we finally get the rooms and we're told we can't, like we've talked about before, you can't have anybody touch your life.
• 1:29:55
  SPEAKER_02: All of a sudden, it goes from calm.
• 1:29:57
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna have fun to this is where sacrifices are from serene to psychotic in like 10 seconds flat.
• 1:30:05
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:30:05
  SPEAKER_00: There we go.
• 1:30:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember, I don't know if you remember this, but in the lobby when we were all sitting there, the water tasted great, everything was so perfect.
• 1:30:13
  SPEAKER_00: And she's sitting there by herself on a couch.
• 1:30:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm watching her, and all of a sudden she's like, Oh, this looks like Epstein Island.
• 1:30:22
  SPEAKER_00: This is where they do child sacrifices.
• 1:30:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like she went from, oh, it's beautiful, we're gonna have fun here, to as soon as everybody relaxed, as soon as everybody is happy and enjoying themselves, she spun that on a dime.
• 1:30:36
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, I remember that.
• 1:30:38
  SPEAKER_02: Even to the point of so then we get our rooms, and then she made up that too.
• 1:30:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, oh, they didn't have the rooms ready because of da-da-da.
• 1:30:47
  SPEAKER_02: She made up some excuse.
• 1:30:49
  SPEAKER_02: And so then we're so we're having to slug our our suitcases across the street, because this is a big complex, right?
• 1:30:57
  SPEAKER_02: So we're having to across the street upstairs, and these guys are like going, can we help you?
• 1:31:02
  SPEAKER_02: Please let us help, please.
• 1:31:04
  SPEAKER_02: And she's like, No, they're begging you, don't do it.
• 1:31:06
  SPEAKER_00: Don't, you know.
• 1:31:07
  SPEAKER_00: In the very accommodating and generous way that the culture is known for, they are simply behaving in that way, and yet everything was inverted.
• 1:31:16
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 1:31:17
  SPEAKER_00: They're encroaching on your space.
• 1:31:18
  SPEAKER_00: No, actually, this is a this is a society that has very little personal awareness of personal space.
• 1:31:25
  SPEAKER_00: They're all crowded together everywhere.
• 1:31:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:31:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it just is part of the culture.
• 1:31:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so there were all of these things that got turned sideways simply because of all the things that have led up until there then, which is heightened awareness, sleep deprivation, water deprivation, like all the things that we'd have already talked about.
• 1:31:42
  SPEAKER_02: And at this time, I'm getting to the point of I don't know kind of what to believe.
• 1:31:47
  SPEAKER_02: I'm my I don't know how to calm my nervous system down.
• 1:31:50
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:31:50
  SPEAKER_02: But part of me is like going, I don't think these guys are bad.
• 1:31:54
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, part of me is like, what the hell is going on here?
• 1:31:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't think they're bad.
• 1:32:00
  SPEAKER_02: And we got to do what?
• 1:32:02
  SPEAKER_02: But we do it.
• 1:32:03
  SPEAKER_02: And then all of a sudden we get the call.
• 1:32:05
  SPEAKER_02: Because this is what was happening too all along in this for the few days that we were there.
• 1:32:10
  SPEAKER_02: Was everything was urgent.
• 1:32:12
  SPEAKER_02: If you went to go get breakfast, you were called back.
• 1:32:16
  SPEAKER_02: I was called back to the room now, like right now.
• 1:32:21
  SPEAKER_02: And it was weird.
• 1:32:23
  SPEAKER_02: It was like you couldn't, you couldn't relax, you couldn't shower.
• 1:32:28
  SPEAKER_02: I need to take a shower.
• 1:32:28
  SPEAKER_02: No, get in here now.
• 1:32:30
  SPEAKER_02: She needs you now.
• 1:32:31
  SPEAKER_02: It was just like that.
• 1:32:32
  SPEAKER_02: So before that.
• 1:32:33
  SPEAKER_02: But in this case, we get to the rooms and we can't, we can't don't even get unpacked and we're called.
• 1:32:38
  SPEAKER_02: Boom.
• 1:32:39
  SPEAKER_02: Emergency stealth move.
• 1:32:41
  SPEAKER_02: We're in trouble, they're out to get her.
• 1:32:43
  SPEAKER_02: And so we all have to convene into this room.
• 1:32:47
  SPEAKER_02: And then it was you couldn't even make a sound, or you got yelled at.
• 1:32:52
  SPEAKER_02: Not a sound.
• 1:32:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like my water bottle made a little and I got yelled at.
• 1:32:58
  SPEAKER_02: Do you want us to all die tonight?
• 1:33:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, No, how about when she said, You're making me look like a cult eater?
• 1:33:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:33:06
  SPEAKER_02: That was my favorite.
• 1:33:09
  SPEAKER_02: Because I'm kind of going, huh?
• 1:33:12
  SPEAKER_02: You kind of do.
• 1:33:15
  SPEAKER_02: You are.
• 1:33:17
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, so yeah, and having that happen and then getting to this point of I'm feeling already.
• 1:33:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's I I'm done.
• 1:33:24
  SPEAKER_02: I can't do this.
• 1:33:25
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just I'm done.
• 1:33:26
  SPEAKER_02: Where we're all a few people would do at first when they dozed off, got yelled at.
• 1:33:31
  SPEAKER_02: But then pretty soon, as it got to we hours of the morning, it was like, no.
• 1:33:36
  SPEAKER_02: And then that's when she kind of softened.
• 1:33:39
  SPEAKER_02: I was sitting there by her and she started to cry.
• 1:33:44
  SPEAKER_02: This is the first human kind of person I saw since the year before.
• 1:33:50
  SPEAKER_02: And she didn't trust her husband, she couldn't go home, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah all this stuff was happening.
• 1:33:56
  SPEAKER_02: But it was like where she said, I'm really sad that I can't be with my husband.
• 1:34:01
  SPEAKER_02: I love him.
• 1:34:02
  SPEAKER_02: And this is the first time I saw this softening and just tugs at my heart.
• 1:34:08
  SPEAKER_02: And then it went into, yeah, but it just went back to the, but he's feeding into this blah, blah, blah.
• 1:34:17
  SPEAKER_02: And this, the army's gonna come get her.
• 1:34:19
  SPEAKER_02: And and and I'm like, I can't.
• 1:34:22
  SPEAKER_02: I I can't.
• 1:34:23
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just done.
• 1:34:24
  SPEAKER_02: And that's it, it was really good because it was right after that that she's like, okay, I think we need to be done.
• 1:34:30
  SPEAKER_02: I can't remember the exact wording.
• 1:34:33
  SPEAKER_02: She says, Are you in agreement?
• 1:34:35
  SPEAKER_02: We're done with this.
• 1:34:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's time to go home.
• 1:34:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, yes, it's time to go home.
• 1:34:38
  SPEAKER_02: We were immediately on our on our phones making flight arrangements.
• 1:34:42
  SPEAKER_01: What was your interpretation at that point?
• 1:34:44
  SPEAKER_01: Were you just like, I can't wait to get out of here?
• 1:34:47
  SPEAKER_01: Were you thinking this was such a waste of my time and money?
• 1:34:50
  SPEAKER_01: Were you thinking like that she's crazy or you're still going along with it?
• 1:34:57
  SPEAKER_01: What was like happening for you at that moment?
• 1:35:00
  SPEAKER_02: I was so exhausted that it was more like I can't even decipher what's just happened.
• 1:35:10
  SPEAKER_02: All I knew is I wanted to get away from her as far as I could.
• 1:35:14
  SPEAKER_02: I wanted to feel safe.
• 1:35:17
  SPEAKER_02: And then it was after that that I got angry.
• 1:35:21
  SPEAKER_02: So, like after you got home.
• 1:35:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:35:23
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't after I got home.
• 1:35:24
  SPEAKER_02: I couldn't.
• 1:35:25
  SPEAKER_02: I was just too, I was too sleep deprived.
• 1:35:28
  SPEAKER_02: Food.
• 1:35:28
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we hadn't like Robin had mentioned and several, we didn't have any food.
• 1:35:32
  SPEAKER_02: We had these little snack things, and even then it wasn't enough and not enough water.
• 1:35:36
  SPEAKER_02: And it was this strange like, how did this happen?
• 1:35:40
  SPEAKER_02: I remember thinking that it's like, how did this happen?
• 1:35:43
  SPEAKER_01: But not even being able to really even think about it.
• 1:35:47
  SPEAKER_01: So then when you got home, you started thinking about it, and that's when you got angry, and then what happened from there?
• 1:35:54
  SPEAKER_02: So I got angry, and that's when you were still on the run.
• 1:35:58
  SPEAKER_02: And we were still getting WhatsApp messages.
• 1:36:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because I did look back because I had removed myself from a group, but I still have the messages that's in the group, and so I was looking at those to see what happened exactly.
• 1:36:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's quite interesting that you still have all those messages.
• 1:36:15
  SPEAKER_00: So, what happened from what did you see in the messages?
• 1:36:18
  SPEAKER_02: Because I had removed myself from the group, but I didn't delete the group.
• 1:36:21
  SPEAKER_02: Isn't that fascinating?
• 1:36:23
  SPEAKER_02: So I am deleting the group, by the way.
• 1:36:28
  SPEAKER_02: But I was like, I looked back and there was all of this stuff.
• 1:36:32
  SPEAKER_02: I she even at least even one of one of you, she sent a picture of you in a snake outfit, a cute little outfit with a snake on it.
• 1:36:39
  SPEAKER_02: And she was like berating you.
• 1:36:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I heard about this.
• 1:36:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and it's right there.
• 1:36:45
  SPEAKER_02: It was in the group because I was like, I remembered that and talking about other people.
• 1:36:49
  SPEAKER_02: And she did a lot of the voice messages, but and so every time the WhatsApp came through, my whole body would just get frozen.
• 1:36:59
  SPEAKER_02: And just finally I had a conversation.
• 1:37:03
  SPEAKER_02: I couldn't even calm down.
• 1:37:04
  SPEAKER_02: I felt like I was in a different dimension when I got home.
• 1:37:07
  SPEAKER_02: At first, I'm like, who do I trust?
• 1:37:10
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you were definitely in an altered state of consciousness.
• 1:37:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 1:37:14
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 1:37:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I could feel it, I knew it.
• 1:37:17
  SPEAKER_02: And nothing looked the same or felt the same.
• 1:37:20
  SPEAKER_02: Driving the car was weird.
• 1:37:22
  SPEAKER_02: It was different.
• 1:37:23
  SPEAKER_02: And but then I've got this feeling of because she was talking about all the lizard people and stuff before that.
• 1:37:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, is that true?
• 1:37:32
  SPEAKER_02: Is it not true?
• 1:37:33
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I'm still trying to get my grounding.
• 1:37:36
  SPEAKER_02: And then she was having wanting to have these calls, and and then finally people started to fade away from the group.
• 1:37:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I finally had this conversation with Robin because I was still feeling like I can't leave.
• 1:37:49
  SPEAKER_02: I can't leave.
• 1:37:50
  SPEAKER_00: Meanwhile, I'm still with her.
• 1:37:52
  SPEAKER_00: This is still, we're in South Dakota when Brenda and I are having this conversation.
• 1:37:57
  SPEAKER_00: What do you remember about that conversation?
• 1:38:00
  SPEAKER_02: I remember your awareness.
• 1:38:02
  SPEAKER_02: I remember you telling me about the sign in the bathroom when you guys stopped.
• 1:38:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's a gas station.
• 1:38:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:38:08
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a sign on the way through South Dakota.
• 1:38:11
  SPEAKER_00: We stopped in a rust area, and she pointed out the signs in all of the bathrooms.
• 1:38:15
  SPEAKER_00: Are you being trafficked?
• 1:38:16
  SPEAKER_00: And she said, This is what's happening.
• 1:38:18
  SPEAKER_00: Take a picture of this.
• 1:38:19
  SPEAKER_00: This is what's happening.
• 1:38:21
  SPEAKER_00: So, all along, of course, she was telling me what she was doing.
• 1:38:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I brought that into you and what happened then.
• 1:38:27
  SPEAKER_02: Because your awareness was like, okay, you are getting done.
• 1:38:30
  SPEAKER_02: You're like, I just want out.
• 1:38:32
  SPEAKER_02: I've just we're done.
• 1:38:33
  SPEAKER_02: And so we started talking about just reflecting on what we thought about what was happening.
• 1:38:39
  SPEAKER_02: And nothing concrete I remember in that conversation.
• 1:38:43
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't until you got back away from her, and this is just within a couple days.
• 1:38:48
  SPEAKER_02: And we were supposed to have this call.
• 1:38:51
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody was supposed to be on this call.
• 1:38:53
  SPEAKER_00: The inner circle.
• 1:38:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, the inner circle.
• 1:38:55
  SPEAKER_00: The last women standing.
• 1:38:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 1:38:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I was looking at the group, people were removing themselves, removing, removing.
• 1:39:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, why am I not removing?
• 1:39:05
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what bothered me.
• 1:39:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so there was only a few of us left.
• 1:39:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, Robin, I need to.
• 1:39:10
  SPEAKER_02: And she's like, you know, I can't tell you what to do.
• 1:39:13
  SPEAKER_02: I can't, you have to make this decision and choice.
• 1:39:15
  SPEAKER_02: But I can tell you my experience and what she had discovered for herself.
• 1:39:20
  SPEAKER_02: And what we had talked about was I felt loyalty.
• 1:39:24
  SPEAKER_02: She really, really fed on my loyalty for the group.
• 1:39:28
  SPEAKER_02: But there was this loyalty that was built up, like my mother.
• 1:39:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like even though she did all this stuff, I would still protect her.
• 1:39:36
  SPEAKER_02: And it was an abuser.
• 1:39:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's an abusing, I don't know what you guys call that in psychological terms, but there is a thing that happens.
• 1:39:45
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 1:39:46
  SPEAKER_02: But it was that it was me sitting with after talking with Robin, which was helpful.
• 1:39:51
  SPEAKER_02: And me sitting with the fact that other people had also been feeling the same way that I knew I wasn't alone.
• 1:39:57
  SPEAKER_02: Because I kept thinking I'm alone.
• 1:39:59
  SPEAKER_02: I'm the one that's one, I'm the only one feeling weird about this, but feeling like, no, no, no, something was happening, something bigger than myself.
• 1:40:08
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't just me that I was being taken hostage.
• 1:40:12
  SPEAKER_02: And then being able to go sitting down with it, because I had the conversation with her, and it took me a couple hours to go.
• 1:40:20
  SPEAKER_02: I'm done.
• 1:40:21
  SPEAKER_02: You had the conversation with you.
• 1:40:23
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry.
• 1:40:23
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:40:24
  SPEAKER_02: With you.
• 1:40:24
  SPEAKER_02: I had the conversation with you.
• 1:40:25
  SPEAKER_02: Cause I remember, I remember the whole thing.
• 1:40:27
  SPEAKER_02: I was taking a walk and we were talking, and I was just so distraught.
• 1:40:32
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't want to go to the meeting.
• 1:40:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I was upset because she hadn't even, Betty hadn't even talked about what had happened.
• 1:40:41
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, we need to talk about what happened.
• 1:40:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I had mentioned that in the group a few days before, saying, Can we talk about this?
• 1:40:49
  SPEAKER_02: And it was, oh, yes, of course.
• 1:40:51
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just getting settled.
• 1:40:53
  SPEAKER_02: And then a few more people dropped out of the group.
• 1:40:55
  SPEAKER_02: Then it's the day before the group, the night before.
• 1:40:58
  SPEAKER_02: We're supposed to have the group phone call.
• 1:41:00
  SPEAKER_02: A few of us left.
• 1:41:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, my whole body, my whole psych, everything went no.
• 1:41:07
  SPEAKER_02: But I still, it still took me, I needed to talk it out.
• 1:41:11
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what Robin provided for me was a place.
• 1:41:14
  SPEAKER_02: And she's like saying no.
• 1:41:16
  SPEAKER_02: She's not telling me what to do, which was really important.
• 1:41:20
  SPEAKER_02: But was the fact of just think about this.
• 1:41:23
  SPEAKER_02: Let me tell you these things, what she experienced.
• 1:41:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I really felt because it really went to the fact of, oh, I've been hijacked.
• 1:41:34
  SPEAKER_02: She wasn't helping me with trauma.
• 1:41:36
  SPEAKER_02: She was adding to the trauma.
• 1:41:38
  SPEAKER_02: And now it was my choice.
• 1:41:41
  SPEAKER_02: Do I stay in that or not?
• 1:41:43
  SPEAKER_02: What do I do?
• 1:41:44
  SPEAKER_02: What finally broke the spell for you?
• 1:41:47
  SPEAKER_02: What broke the spell was sitting, what finally sitting after talking with you?
• 1:41:53
  SPEAKER_02: Because you know, right, I'm heightened.
• 1:41:55
  SPEAKER_02: I'm still heightened, even though you're you're on the run with her, but we're getting these WhatsApps, right?
• 1:42:00
  SPEAKER_02: And so every time I'm so finally I just sit and I'm like, okay, Brenda, other people are leaving.
• 1:42:08
  SPEAKER_02: There's something there.
• 1:42:09
  SPEAKER_02: Pay attention.
• 1:42:10
  SPEAKER_02: Then the other part was, oh, is this really how you want to be?
• 1:42:15
  SPEAKER_02: This is familiar.
• 1:42:16
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what started me.
• 1:42:18
  SPEAKER_02: That's when I started connecting the dots.
• 1:42:20
  SPEAKER_02: I sat just quiet with myself and just went, oh, what's familiar about this?
• 1:42:27
  SPEAKER_02: Where else has this happened?
• 1:42:29
  SPEAKER_02: What's going on?
• 1:42:30
  SPEAKER_02: And is this how you want to be?
• 1:42:32
  SPEAKER_02: And that's when I decided, okay.
• 1:42:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I texted her and I said, I can't be on the call.
• 1:42:37
  SPEAKER_02: I'm done with this whole situation because I've been traumatized.
• 1:42:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, every time I saw WhatsApp, I would freak out and freeze because I didn't know if I was going to get in trouble or not.
• 1:42:47
  SPEAKER_02: And this is what I'm telling her.
• 1:42:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, So I am choosing to not be a part of this anymore.
• 1:42:55
  SPEAKER_02: And she responded with, Oh, sweetie, I would love to help you process this anytime you're ready.
• 1:43:03
  SPEAKER_02: And then what happened on your end?
• 1:43:05
  SPEAKER_02: I removed myself from the group.
• 1:43:08
  SPEAKER_02: So I removed myself and from all of that.
• 1:43:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I went through and I deleted everything that I had had with her.
• 1:43:15
  SPEAKER_02: And then that's when I was able to cry.
• 1:43:17
  SPEAKER_02: That's when I was able to grieve.
• 1:43:19
  SPEAKER_02: And then I had the waves of grief, right?
• 1:43:22
  SPEAKER_02: The anger.
• 1:43:23
  SPEAKER_02: And that's when I was totally able to go, what the fuck just happened?
• 1:43:28
  SPEAKER_02: And then we all got together as a group separate.
• 1:43:31
  SPEAKER_02: And that was so healing in itself, right?
• 1:43:34
  SPEAKER_02: Was being able to have another group where we all came together and started sharing what our experience was.
• 1:43:41
  SPEAKER_02: And that was like the best.
• 1:43:43
  SPEAKER_02: That was so healing for me.
• 1:43:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it really brought us together.
• 1:43:47
  SPEAKER_02: And then we could talk about first just healing piece.
• 1:43:51
  SPEAKER_02: And then what do we learn from it?
• 1:43:54
  SPEAKER_01: What is your take on it?
• 1:43:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like as far as what you learned, and also to answer the question of what the hell happened here?
• 1:44:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what is your take on that?
• 1:44:04
  SPEAKER_02: I'm still in the process uh totally of looking at it.
• 1:44:08
  SPEAKER_02: However, one of the first things that came to me was, oh, there it was.
• 1:44:14
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't listen to me.
• 1:44:16
  SPEAKER_02: I abdicated.
• 1:44:18
  SPEAKER_02: I abdicated the power.
• 1:44:20
  SPEAKER_02: I trusted someone else more than myself.
• 1:44:22
  SPEAKER_02: And that was okay.
• 1:44:24
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, it's not beating myself up for it.
• 1:44:26
  SPEAKER_02: It was something that I noticed a pattern of mine in my life.
• 1:44:29
  SPEAKER_02: And in this case, it was okay, there's that.
• 1:44:33
  SPEAKER_02: Then there's also the external force, you know, of I get to be a little bit more diligent in really watching my energy, who it's around, who I give it to.
• 1:44:47
  SPEAKER_02: And it really helped me realize how I can really protect myself by paying attention here and trusting me and not really really nobody's better than I am.
• 1:44:59
  SPEAKER_02: Nobody has the answers for me.
• 1:45:01
  SPEAKER_02: I've got them.
• 1:45:02
  SPEAKER_02: And the right person will help me find them, not tell me or use me for things.
• 1:45:10
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, I'm still in the middle of like really refining that, but that's like the immediate kind of things that came to me.
• 1:45:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's pretty powerful.
• 1:45:19
  SPEAKER_01: And it's also what a lot of people have said.
• 1:45:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I think what Robin and I have said too is it's so much about realizing like what it really feels like to give your power away, and then what it really feels like to not only reclaim it, but also then really listen to your own inner knowing and your own intuition.
• 1:45:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I feel I feel a lot stronger energetically, spiritually, emotionally, physically.
• 1:45:46
  SPEAKER_02: I feel stronger now.
• 1:45:48
  SPEAKER_00: And to me, so sure of yourself.
• 1:45:53
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:45:54
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I know on my end, at least you and I had a couple of retreat experiences together, Brenda and you, you and I did as well.
• 1:46:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I can't fathom having had those experiences without you.
• 1:46:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that as I listen to your story, Brenda, it just brings me pause to think that we still have a lot of unpacking to do about what happened, why it happened.
• 1:46:18
  SPEAKER_00: And we may never understand it from this perspective fully.
• 1:46:21
  SPEAKER_00: But I do think that the gift in all of this is you on the other side.
• 1:46:27
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, as your as your friend and as your colleague, you on the other side of this, and just knowing that whatever comes next for you, you you're going to create something beautiful.
• 1:46:37
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:46:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
• 1:46:40
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for being here and for sharing everything that you did.
• 1:46:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think you brought a really not only unique perspective, but also just important perspective as far as the timeline and just bringing up some other subjects that we've not talked about yet in the series and in people's stories.
• 1:46:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I really appreciate that and appreciate you just sharing so honestly and vulnerably.
• 1:47:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I think this is gonna be really helpful for everyone.
• 1:47:06
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much.
• 1:47:08
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, thank you.
• 1:47:09
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for being here, everyone.
• 1:47:12
  SPEAKER_01: And we will see you next time.
• 1:47:14
  SPEAKER_01: See you next time.
• 1:47:17
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for being here.
• 1:47:19
  SPEAKER_01: Don't forget to follow the show on Apple or Spotify.
• 1:47:22
  SPEAKER_01: Leave a review and share the show with your friends who you know are yearning for this type of content.
• 1:47:27
  SPEAKER_01: When you leave a review, send us a screenshot and we'll send you a$250 credit that you can apply to joining anything new in my world.
• 1:47:35
  SPEAKER_01: You can stay connected with me by following me on Instagram at Elise underscore breeds.
• 1:47:39
  SPEAKER_01: Make sure you download my Clear Trauma Cheat Sheet at elisebreeds.com.
• 1:47:44
  SPEAKER_01: See you next time.