Latest / The Morning Edition / Barnaby’s dog, Hanson and the attention economy. Plus, a Labor Party conference

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Barnaby’s dog, Hanson and the attention economy. Plus, a Labor Party conference · The Morning Edition

0:02
S1: I'm Jacqueline Maley, and you're listening to Inside Politics from
0:05
S1: the newsrooms of the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age.
0:09
S1: It has been quite a week in federal politics. We
0:13
S1: had Barnaby Joyce administering some tough love to his dog
0:16
S1: live on national television. We had Pauline Hanson make some
0:19
S1: incredibly controversial remarks about domestic violence. And meanwhile, down in Adelaide,
0:23
S1: the Prime Minister is at the Labor National Conference attempting
0:27
S1: to placate the grassroots of his party while also trying
0:30
S1: to keep himself electable. So much to discuss. Joining me
0:34
S1: this week from the labor conference in Adelaide, we have
0:36
S1: our chief political correspondent, Paul Circle, as usual, and federal
0:40
S1: political correspondent Natassia Chrysanthos. Welcome, guys. Hello.
0:46
S2: Hello from the city of churches.
0:48
S1: Yeah. How's the weather down in Adelaide?
0:50
S2: It's a bit gloomy.
0:53
S3: The lights are bright inside the Adelaide Convention Centre, which
0:56
S3: is the only bit that we're really experiencing.
0:58
S1: Right? It's not the most atmospheric venues, but you know,
1:01
S1: it gets the job done. First up, I want to
1:03
S1: talk about One Nation because they've really continued to dominate
1:06
S1: headlines this week. And that itself is important because gaining
1:10
S1: attention and outrage is very much a part of the
1:13
S1: political strategy of the party, or so it seems. Paul,
1:16
S1: most people by now will be familiar with Barnaby Joyce
1:19
S1: shouting at his dog during an interview with Sarah Ferguson
1:21
S1: on the ABC's 730 program, I think on Tuesday night.
1:24
S1: What did you make of that little piece of political
1:26
S1: theatre which has gone global, for better or for worse?
1:30
S2: It's pretty extraordinary. It's in lots of the major newspapers,
1:33
S2: lots of the big TV channels. I can't remember a
1:35
S2: news story in Australia that's kicked off to that extent.
1:37
S2: Probably some crazy crime. Um, yeah, I'm sure everyone has
1:40
S2: seen this by now. This is Barnaby Joyce on the
1:43
S2: 730 report yelling at his dog Stella.
1:47
S4: Are you really comfortable with where she is taking you?
1:52
S5: But I think. Sit down. Sorry. It's a dog.
1:57
S2: It's the latest moment in what's been what's felt like
2:00
S2: kind of a month of a media cycle that has
2:03
S2: a similar theme, which is one nation being placed more
2:07
S2: firmly under the spotlight, contentious claims being made on race relations. Um,
2:13
S2: if you're talking about the Senator Malcolm Roberts various conspiracy theories,
2:17
S2: and on the Barnaby Joyce side, him kind of cleaning
2:20
S2: up this mess and adding his own eccentricity into the
2:23
S2: mix as well. Uh, and if you're one nation, you're
2:26
S2: probably worried about the perception that they're a bit of
2:29
S2: a ragged mess. But on the other hand, attention is
2:32
S2: everything in politics. And, uh, their polling position is strong
2:36
S2: despite a recent blip. And there's an argument that these
2:39
S2: kinds of moments cement their status as the disrupter, the
2:42
S2: kind of transgressive force in politics who are doing things
2:45
S2: a little bit differently. People aren't paying that much attention
2:48
S2: to politics mid cycle. It's really hard for the major
2:50
S2: parties to grab attention, which is what this conference is about.
2:53
S2: And so at least they're in the algorithm. That's how
2:57
S2: they'd be thinking about it. But there's obviously downside. If
2:59
S2: you look a bit too sloppy.
3:01
S1: You're there dominating the algorithm and as you say, they've
3:03
S1: gone global. I mean, I've seen it all over my
3:05
S1: Instagram feed. Even Pod Save America, which is an American
3:08
S1: podcast by, you know, some Democrat guys, they got into it.
3:12
S1: They brought up political guys. Yeah. What when you look
3:15
S1: at the broader interview, though, watch what Sarah Ferguson was
3:18
S1: pressing Barnaby Joyce on, and he gets increasingly tetchy as
3:22
S1: the interview goes on, to the extent where he tells
3:25
S1: Sarah Ferguson not to be rude because she's pressing him
3:27
S1: on a question. The question she's pressing him on is
3:30
S1: whether or not Pauline Hanson, who's making or, you know,
3:34
S1: making extremely sort of increasingly extreme remarks about immigrants, particularly
3:39
S1: Muslim immigrants. There was a whole Tommy Robinson sort of
3:43
S1: podcast interview that she did. Sarah Ferguson is asking Barnaby Joyce,
3:48
S1: is Pauline Hanson taking you further to the right and
3:51
S1: further to the extremes than you are comfortable with? And
3:53
S1: he actually didn't answer that question. Is there a schism
3:56
S1: forming there?
3:56
S2: Yeah, that was the question that when he got set,
3:59
S2: when the dog set him off. But as you say,
4:01
S2: he was, he was kind of getting increasingly frustrated as
4:04
S2: the interview went on. We reported the week before that
4:07
S2: interview that he was privately grumbling about Pauline Hanson's trip
4:11
S2: to Europe. He thought that Tommy Robinson, even though he
4:14
S2: agrees with the thesis on political Islam, he thought that
4:17
S2: Tommy Robinson was a character who shouldn't be dealt with.
4:19
S2: He's a thug. He's a criminal. He's a racist. So
4:21
S2: Joyce was privately grumbling to his associates and his family
4:24
S2: back home, and he played this. He started playing this
4:26
S2: role over the past couple of weeks that our colleague
4:28
S2: Rob Harris has described as the explainer in chief. He's
4:31
S2: been back in Australia doing every media outlet possible, not
4:34
S2: knocking back any media requests, explaining all of these sometimes
4:38
S2: outrageous claims from Pauline Hanson overseas. And there has been
4:42
S2: a narrative building in Canberra that Barnaby Joyce is becoming
4:46
S2: worried about the One Nation show and sensing that it's
4:50
S2: not on track. And that interview could have indicated that
4:54
S2: it all got a bit much for him. He was
4:56
S2: being asked really tricky questions by a fantastic interviewer, Sarah Ferguson,
5:00
S2: and he started off the interview tetchy to begin with.
5:03
S2: He said, oh, he really welcoming me on the show.
5:05
S2: Don't know if you're happy for me to be here
5:06
S2: or something along those lines. And as the questions got tougher,
5:09
S2: he became increasingly tetchy. Sarah Ferguson. I think she should
5:14
S2: have suggested in that line when he punched back and
5:18
S2: called her rude. It seemed to be implicit in her,
5:20
S2: her comment that she thought the dog might be a fake,
5:24
S2: and that there was not really any dog there like.
5:27
S1: I could hear the dog when I. Because some people
5:28
S1: have suggested that the dog was fake and it was
5:30
S1: just a sort of ruse to not answer the question.
5:32
S1: I could actually hear the dog when I was listening
5:34
S1: to it, when I was listening back to it. Sarah
5:36
S1: Ferguson has said that she could hear a dog too.
5:38
S1: So we are taking on faith the existence of Stella,
5:42
S1: the Border Collie Cross. I think she is maybe a
5:43
S1: terrier as.
5:44
S2: Well as a big narrative online that the dog was.
5:46
S1: I know going around. I know you can't. You can't. Yeah.
5:49
S1: It's very hard to get to the bottom of this matter.
5:51
S1: We need we need proof of life of the dog anyway.
5:55
S1: I mean, broadly, you know, Sarah Ferguson was pointing out that,
6:00
S1: you know, Pauline Hanson had said on the spotlight program
6:05
S1: when she was walking around, I think Lucien in the
6:07
S1: UK with Tommy Robinson, a comment Muslims breed and the
6:12
S1: taxpayer pays. She was asking whether he was comfortable with that,
6:16
S1: with Hanson taking him into a place of racial discrimination,
6:19
S1: which that pretty clearly sounds like. Is he sort of
6:22
S1: going to continue to be happily cleaning up these kinds
6:25
S1: of messes, do you think?
6:26
S2: Well, that question that you just mentioned from Ferguson was
6:30
S2: such a pertinent one, because there was a conversation at
6:33
S2: the time Joyce joined One Nation around his positioning on
6:37
S2: migration and race in his career. I think Phil Khouri
6:40
S2: wrote a column saying that Joyce has never been a
6:42
S2: race baiter. He's pretty. He has been quite liberal on
6:46
S2: these issues for a conservative. People will recall he was
6:49
S2: a big supporter of the Biloela refugee family, very impassioned supporter.
6:54
S2: He's a. He's a Jesuit. Catholic. Jesuit. Catholics tend to
6:58
S2: have pretty strong social justice values on these issues. And
7:02
S2: so there's always been this question about whether Joyce would
7:04
S2: go along with the race and migration element of the
7:07
S2: One Nation agenda. He's a populist in all different kinds
7:09
S2: of forms, but not traditionally on that issue. And so, yeah,
7:12
S2: as we reported and as seemed to come to a
7:15
S2: head in that interview, there is this sense that Joyce
7:17
S2: is not quite in line with Hanson on racial issues,
7:20
S2: although he has been saying both privately and publicly, that
7:23
S2: the more he thinks about the warning signs from Britain,
7:26
S2: about having too big a proportion of your country that
7:30
S2: are of Muslim background, he's becoming increasingly worried that that
7:33
S2: is the path Australia is on. So he would reject
7:35
S2: this thesis. But that's been a question that people have asked.
7:38
S1: The other thing that Pauline Hanson is reported as saying
7:41
S1: this week was these very controversial comments about domestic violence.
7:44
S1: She was asked about domestic violence, I think on a
7:46
S1: on a Brisbane radio show. She was specifically asked us
7:49
S1: what her message was to men who abuse their female partners.
7:53
S1: And she said that while she had a lot. Well,
7:56
S1: she said that she'd suffered domestic violence herself and that
7:59
S1: she had left. She advised women to leave, but she
8:01
S1: also said that it's a two way street. What did
8:03
S1: you make of those comments and how do you think
8:05
S1: they'll land with mainstream voters?
8:08
S3: Yeah, I think look, she's kind of attempted to walk
8:12
S3: them back or clarify what she meant. Um, but, you know,
8:17
S3: our colleagues, Brittany Busch and, um, Rob Harris have got a,
8:21
S3: another story today that go back to interview comments she
8:25
S3: gave in a podcast last year, which kind of, you know,
8:28
S3: insinuate that the child support system is a scam and
8:30
S3: so forth. So she's obviously, uh, got form here, you know,
8:36
S3: defending fathers in the family court, all of that kind
8:39
S3: of stuff. I think the more important question, which is
8:42
S3: the one that you raise is how does this land?
8:45
S3: And I think it's reflective of a bit of a
8:47
S3: trend we're seeing with Hanson, similar to her comments on
8:49
S3: paid parental leave. Um, similar to her comments about, you know,
8:52
S3: workers being lazy and seeking to sack them. These are
8:54
S3: these are kind of quite strong culture war topics, but
9:00
S3: In areas that are slightly more niche, perhaps, and that
9:04
S3: don't necessarily, I think, land with most Australians or it's
9:08
S3: not what most Australians are thinking about. Most Australians I
9:10
S3: don't think are talking about domestic violence in the context
9:14
S3: of is domestic violence leave a scam? Our police resources
9:18
S3: being unreasonably diverted to DV cases. And so I don't
9:23
S3: know that this is the most favorable area for her
9:27
S3: to be playing in politically.
9:29
S1: Mhm. Yeah. Well, it's certainly a topic that men's rights
9:34
S1: activists and certain elements of. Yeah. Very sort of far
9:36
S1: right populism around the world would would you know, it's
9:39
S1: from that it's very much from that playbook. It fortunately
9:42
S1: hasn't been a feature of Australian politics in quite some time.
9:45
S1: But we might see that come back. Paul, you had
9:47
S1: a story this week about Alex Antic, who's a South
9:50
S1: Australian Liberal senator who's something of a rebel. He's often
9:53
S1: been very complimentary of One Nation in the past. And
9:56
S1: you reported him as saying that One Nation Senator Malcolm
9:59
S1: Roberts is, a clear thinker. Now Malcolm Roberts has promoted
10:03
S1: conspiracy theories. You know, you've written a lot about that.
10:07
S1: He's praised Vladimir Putin, among other things. You reported, you know,
10:11
S1: in the context of Alex Antic, that he's becoming a
10:13
S1: bit of a problem for the Liberals, particularly because he
10:16
S1: might be angling for a one nation Liberal Party coalition
10:20
S1: in the state of South Australia, where he's from. Well,
10:23
S1: what did Angus Taylor have to say about that proposition?
10:28
S2: Well, he was firmer than I thought he would be.
10:30
S2: Angus Taylor, when asked about our story a couple of
10:33
S2: days ago, he was in Brisbane for a for an
10:35
S2: economic forum and was asked about this prospect of the
10:39
S2: hard right. South Australian Senator Alex Antic shifting the South
10:42
S2: Australian division of the party in which he's got significant
10:44
S2: control to be closer to one nation, potentially forming some
10:48
S2: sort of state based alliance or coalition with the rump
10:51
S2: of MPs they still have in that state. And Angus
10:53
S2: Taylor was very firm, he said. Alex's view is irrelevant here.
10:57
S2: That will not be happening. It will not be tolerated
10:59
S2: and there'll be no conversation of any any similar sort.
11:03
S2: And the reason for that is because Alex Antic has
11:06
S2: been an irritant to a number of coalition leaders, but
11:10
S2: he's been accepted because he's been seen as on the
11:12
S2: fringe doing his thing in the online right ecosystem. He
11:16
S2: does have a significant audience online. I wouldn't underplay the
11:19
S2: extent to which, you know, that backlash to what you know,
11:22
S2: people on the right view is the overreach of the
11:24
S2: MeToo movement. And other things have led to the rise
11:26
S2: of people like Alex Antic in certain parts of the internet,
11:29
S2: the Pauline Hanson's trying to tap into. So people see
11:32
S2: him as someone who's built up a fairly large following
11:34
S2: and so deserves respect. But for the first time, he's
11:37
S2: encroached into terrain which has caused higher ups to think, okay,
11:42
S2: this is now potentially a serious problem because if he
11:45
S2: seizes control of the South Australian division and he's running
11:47
S2: for president of that division, which is very unorthodox for
11:50
S2: a sitting senator, in fact, it's never happened before. If
11:53
S2: he does take control and executes this idea of embracing
11:57
S2: one nation that has national implications, because labor would point
12:00
S2: to that and say, look, the Liberals actually do want
12:02
S2: to do a deal with One Nation. That's not just
12:04
S2: on preferences, but they want to merge the parties. And
12:07
S2: so Angus Taylor has set a clear red line there
12:09
S2: by putting his foot down.
12:10
S1: Yeah. To us. How do you think Angus Taylor is
12:12
S1: going generally in countering One Nation. And has he sharpened
12:16
S1: up his attack recently?
12:18
S3: I think he's sharpened up for sure. I think what
12:20
S3: Paul just said is one example of that. I think
12:22
S3: he gave this speech a couple of weeks ago as well,
12:24
S3: which was really emphasizing, you know, the harm of One
12:27
S3: Nation's policies. I think it took a while to get there.
12:30
S3: He's kind of been treading lightly, and a lot of
12:32
S3: stuff to do with One Nation over the last few months. Um,
12:36
S3: so I think it's where he's landed seems better because
12:40
S3: at least also he's just then able to quash some
12:42
S3: of this speculation about the Liberals level of cooperation with
12:45
S3: One Nation, for example, with things like preference deals, it's
12:49
S3: easy to make those conversations go away and focus on
12:51
S3: what you want to focus on when you have a
12:53
S3: clear answer. So I think he's doing that a lot better.
12:55
S3: I think the the dilemma for poor Angus Taylor, it's
12:58
S3: not for lack of Trying. I think that is not
13:02
S3: cutting through. Like he's come out with some quite bold
13:05
S3: policies or rhetoric. He's he's immigration stuff earlier this year
13:09
S3: was very inflammatory. Um, his budget reply, um, you know,
13:16
S3: and his position on income tax indexing, tax brackets to
13:20
S3: end bracket creep, that's a big idea that, you know,
13:24
S3: that beckons a lot of questions about budget management and
13:26
S3: all of that stuff that he's not really being asked
13:29
S3: because he's just not cutting through. And I think it
13:33
S3: goes back to what we were saying earlier around the
13:36
S3: attention economy. When you've got Pauline Hanson on a pool
13:39
S3: deck with Gina Rinehart and Sicily and attending a fashion
13:42
S3: show and a Barnaby Joyce doing like a a pistol
13:45
S3: and boo dog, um, stunt man. Yeah, yeah. Like it.
13:52
S3: It's hard. It is a they're like, in some cases they're, they're,
13:57
S3: you know, say, for example, in the DV, I think
13:59
S3: this is a kind of news cycle that's emerged in
14:01
S3: the last 24 hours that goes around genuine scrutiny stuff
14:04
S3: like the dog stuff or the fashion show. They're more
14:07
S3: gaffe related, but either way, they just, I think, take
14:10
S3: people's attention, whether it's in the mainstream news or on
14:12
S3: social media. Um, and one nation just becomes the kind
14:17
S3: of default subject of interest, I think, for people who
14:19
S3: are paying attention to politics.
14:21
S1: I wonder in a, in a world where you have
14:23
S1: one nation making, you know, various people from one nation,
14:26
S1: notably Pauline Hanson, making these really brash, bold, strong, occasionally
14:30
S1: extreme statements where someone who's a bit more moderate or
14:33
S1: maybe even milquetoast is just not cutting through at all
14:36
S1: because it's like, oh, what is it that what is
14:37
S1: it that you're saying? Exactly.
14:39
S3: But that's where, as these kind of examples, he's not
14:41
S3: even trying to be milquetoast with them. Like he is
14:42
S3: trying to be a bit bolder. Um, and it's still not,
14:46
S3: not cutting through because he's not Pauline Hanson and he
14:48
S3: never will be. Right.
14:49
S1: Mhm. Okay. Let's take away to the Labour Party conference,
14:52
S1: which is where you guys are at this very moment.
14:55
S1: For listeners who haven't paid much attention. What is the
14:57
S1: stated purpose of all of this theater? poll. Set the
15:02
S1: scene for us.
15:03
S2: Yeah. So the labour conferences occur once every term of government.
15:07
S2: The Prime Minister, this this Prime Minister has brought them
15:10
S2: forward in the term. So he's had it. This one's
15:12
S2: about a year after the last election. Some Labour leaders
15:14
S2: past have had them about a year before the next
15:16
S2: election to to use them as kind of election launching pads.
15:19
S2: But this Prime Minister being hyper focused on constantly electioneering
15:25
S2: and thinking forward well in advance, he's known for his
15:27
S2: kind of strategic thinking, has brought it earlier in the
15:30
S2: term to create some, create some coherence about its agenda,
15:34
S2: and to ensure that all the different arms of the
15:36
S2: labour movement and the government are coming together at an
15:40
S2: early point in the term to set up the framing
15:42
S2: and strategic thinking for the next election. So effectively, what
15:46
S2: a conference is in a in a in an organizational level,
15:50
S2: is a coming together of all the delegates from across
15:52
S2: the country who are elected at branch level to the
15:55
S2: same room over three days. About half of them are
15:58
S2: from unions and unions have their own delegates, and a half,
16:01
S2: about half are from the rank and file. So it's
16:03
S2: a little bit less than that because there's a lot
16:04
S2: of elected MPs as part of those that delegate block
16:07
S2: as well, and they go through chapters of a hefty
16:12
S2: party platform document that are on each policy area. People
16:17
S2: will move amendments to the policy, um, uh, platforms to
16:20
S2: try and inject new, uh, values or specific policies into
16:25
S2: the document. When that document is agreed upon at the
16:27
S2: end of the conference, it is formally, technically meant to
16:31
S2: bind the cabinet to fulfill those obligations. But the the
16:36
S2: get out clause is that it doesn't enforce discipline on
16:40
S2: when those policies are enacted, enacted, or precisely how they
16:44
S2: are enacted.
16:45
S1: Yeah.
16:45
S2: So the cabinet if if which does have significant control
16:48
S2: over the conference can does still have ultimate and real
16:51
S2: control over how the platform is executed.
16:53
S1: Yeah. So they're sort of pointing the ship in the direction,
16:55
S1: but they're not actually precisely plotting its destination or its
16:59
S1: time of destination. It's often said that the big disputes
17:03
S1: in Labour Party conference are settled well before the conference,
17:06
S1: away from away from the prying eyes of the media
17:08
S1: and the public, so that Labour can project a united
17:10
S1: front from from the conference itself. Thus, what were the
17:13
S1: major policy points that were up for grabs this year?
17:16
S3: Um, I think the if we look at issues that
17:19
S3: have been dividing the party, the party for a while,
17:22
S3: we've got things like Israel, Gaza, um, Aukus. These are
17:26
S3: kind of been long running debates in labour more recently.
17:30
S3: I think a gas tax has become a big issue.
17:33
S3: And the most recent is around AI and safeguards for
17:37
S3: for workers, creatives and so forth. Um, as we move
17:40
S3: towards an AI world. So with AI, for example, you
17:44
S3: saw the government get ahead of that one, uh, with
17:48
S3: Albanese's speech the other day. Um, so front running some
17:51
S3: of these debates looking like they're on top of it,
17:53
S3: a bit of a pressure valve for people to air
17:55
S3: their views. Stop that one blowing up, you know, on
17:58
S3: the floor of conference or becoming too to a similar
18:00
S3: thing actually with gambling reform. I think there's a view
18:03
S3: that's another thing that that there's been this real passionate
18:05
S3: rank and file push for stronger action. The government came
18:09
S3: through with a watered down package. But, you know, people
18:12
S3: have said to me, for example, that by at least
18:15
S3: introducing that package to Parliament last month, um, they stopped
18:20
S3: that one blowing up on the floor of conference as well.
18:24
S3: You know, we've got a few of these events at
18:27
S3: the conference that happened on the sideline called fringe events
18:30
S3: for some of these fringe debates. And there will be
18:32
S3: debate over things like Aukus and AI and, um, you know,
18:36
S3: Labor's position on war there. You've got protesters at the front, uh,
18:40
S3: taking up the issue of gas tax in Gaza. So
18:42
S3: all these things are kind of happening in the periphery.
18:44
S3: But I think by and large, what we do see
18:46
S3: now is a conference where a lot of this is
18:50
S3: kind of negotiated in advance. The wording is agreed to,
18:52
S3: the debates are slightly stage managed. And also, I think
18:54
S3: people are aware that they don't rock the boat too
18:57
S3: much when it comes to a conference proper.
18:59
S6: Mhm. Mhm.
19:01
S1: Anthony Albanese gave the keynote speech for the conference on Thursday.
19:04
S1: If that is the correct term, I'm sure it's not
19:06
S1: the correct term. But what was his central political message?
19:10
S3: It really gave me, um, election 2025 flashbacks, to be honest. Um,
19:15
S3: he he even pulled out the green and gold Medicare
19:17
S3: card again. So there was this, uh, it was doing
19:20
S3: a couple of things. There was this, what would I
19:23
S3: think sound familiar to voters from the last election, this
19:26
S3: real focus on bread and butter, labor, staff, workers, healthcare,
19:30
S3: you know, education. I think the two announcements they made
19:34
S3: that labor made today were interesting. One is extending paid
19:37
S3: payments to students in health, and the other was a
19:41
S3: new workers court to settle underpayments and workplace disputes that
19:45
S3: that hasn't existed since Howard abolished the last 1 in 1997. Um,
19:49
S3: so there's this real like labor way. This is the
19:51
S3: labor way of doing things. But I think what's different
19:54
S3: since last year is the overarching context and the justification
19:57
S3: for that. And again, it wasn't just about the coalition,
20:00
S3: it was about this rising tide of populism. Um, this
20:04
S3: the fact that people are angry and disenchanted and the
20:06
S3: economy is not working for them. That's a new line
20:09
S3: for Labour in the last little while, this acknowledgement of grievance.
20:13
S3: But then this real kind of firm assertion that, well,
20:16
S3: we don't just respond to grievance by, you know, playing
20:20
S3: into it. We have to do material things. And those
20:22
S3: material things are explicitly acting on cost of living. Um,
20:26
S3: and so I think what, what was interesting about Albanese's
20:30
S3: speech was that it married so much of the stuff
20:32
S3: from last election that was really being pitched as core
20:35
S3: labour mission core labor values and also core labor policy
20:39
S3: in the in the things that this government does, which
20:41
S3: has been a lot of kind of money redistributed people
20:45
S3: via like under the banner of costing living relief. Um,
20:49
S3: but then connecting that to this kind of looming one
20:53
S3: nation threat. And I think we also heard Peter Malinauskas,
20:57
S3: the premier of South Australia, um, speak in a very
21:00
S3: similar way about it is saying, you know, there are
21:03
S3: two risks for labor here. One is the risk of
21:06
S3: complacency that with this kind of decimated, fragmented conservative opposition,
21:11
S3: we become too complacent. But the second risk is that
21:13
S3: we react to populism and what that kind of beckons.
21:18
S3: So this framing of, you know, there needs to be
21:21
S3: a Labour way, which, as Albanese said, was kind of,
21:24
S3: you know, diversity and progressive that had a diverse and
21:28
S3: progressive kind of essence. What's that core thing?
21:32
S1: Yeah, I think he seemed to be sort of saying,
21:34
S1: we're not going to engage in culture wars. We're going
21:36
S1: to answer the culture wars with actual sort of outcomes
21:38
S1: and policy policy solutions that help people in their everyday lives.
21:43
S1: That was the thrust of it. Whether or not that
21:45
S1: will cut through and whether or not that'll be attractive
21:47
S1: enough and convincing enough to voters. I guess we'll find
21:50
S1: out at the next election. But as you say, it
21:52
S1: did sound a lot like an election pitch. I think
21:55
S1: we've lost Paul to the vagaries of the Labour Party conference.
21:59
S1: Net internet. I can.
22:01
S3: See him now, but I don't know what he's.
22:03
S1: Doing. He's. Maybe he's ditched us. He's gone to get
22:07
S1: a cup of Nescafé at the coffee.
22:10
S3: Station, so maybe he'll get a head.
22:12
S1: Start. Maybe he's. Maybe he's had a blood sugar crash.
22:15
S1: And just some vague doubt task will let you go.
22:17
S1: Thank you so much for joining us. That was very interesting.
22:20
S1: And we'll get you back on soon, maybe to talk
22:22
S1: about the outcomes from the conference.
22:24
S3: Talk to you guys soon. Thanks so much.
22:29
S1: You can read all of our political news on our website,
22:31
S1: theage.com.au and smh.com.au. Today's episode was produced by Kai Wong
22:37
S1: with help from Debbie Harrington. Our executive producer is Tammy Mills,
22:41
S1: and our podcasts are overseen by Lisa Muxworthy and Tom McKendrick.
22:46
S1: Before you go, follow Inside Politics and leave a review
22:49
S1: for us on Apple or Spotify. I'm Jacqueline Maley, thank
22:52
S1: you for listening.