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David Roth: Should Christians Pursue Comfort AND Christ? · Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo

• 0:02
  Welcome to Worldview Matters. Discussing controversial issues. Discerning current events. Defending biblical Christianity. No topic. Off limits. And now, here's your host, David Fiorazzo.
• 0:20
  Friends and family in Christ, thank you so much for tuning in, watching, listening, sharing, and especially for your prayers. We really appreciate you. I'm so blessed to do this program, this podcast. I love the topics we get to discuss because no topic is off limits, of course, and the body of Christ really needs to know what's happening and know how to respond. So discernment is the word of the year, and I also love the men and women of God I get to talk to.
• 0:45
  And today is no different. I've got my pastor in studio. His name is David Roth. The website for One Way Christian Church in Green Bay, Wisconsin is OWCCGB.org. If you're in the area, come on and come.
• 1:06
  Join us for a church service, 10 a.m. on Sundays. A lot of other activities and things going on during the week, but you can also watch online, owccgb.org. You can find us on Facebook. Pastor David, welcome. Thank you. It's great to be here again. Thanks for coming in, and you drove through the smoke like I did this morning.
• 1:24
  Yes. When we're recording this, there are the wildfires, I guess, Canada, Minnesota. Yeah. And we're getting the smoke. And so you've got to stay inside more often. Yeah, it's thick. It's thick. It is thick. Yeah. It's crazy. Did you see the pink sun this morning? Yeah, yeah.
• 1:43
  That was incredible. That was bizarre. That's like the background behind you. I mean, literally, it was pink because I guess the smoke causes that. Well, so there's a lot I wanted to talk with you about. We haven't had you back in a while for many reasons. But something you put up on your Facebook page, and this will kind of catapult us into the conversation. I love this. Check this out, friends. Do you agree or disagree? Yeah.
• 2:06
  You cannot carry your cross and your comfort at the same time. Just let that sink in, because we're going to start by talking about trials, the Christian life, and America, and some of the things we've come to believe as Christians. We are way too comfortable, I think, and maybe that's been both a blessing and a curse. We can talk about how religious freedom exists.
• 2:32
  plays into that. But David, let's talk with your health and get an update, because I know people were praying, they have been praying for you, and since we haven't had you on in a while, we haven't had an update on your health, and we want to make sure that believers know the details, specifics, whatever you're willing to share, so they can pray for you. And this man of God continues to be a bold leader in the face of a trial, that he's going through a health trial. So tell us, give us an
• 3:02
  Back in January of this year, I was having some medical symptoms and conditions that warranted to get checked out and have concern over. And so I went to the doctor and had some lab work done, and he wanted to order a CAT scan right away based on the symptoms I was having.
• 3:24
  And, uh, so a couple of days later I had a CAT scan and, uh, and then about a day later, um, Tammy and I, my wife, uh, were online reading the results of that CAT scan and my heart just dropped. Um, it reported a, a large mass in my bladder and your mind immediately goes to the worst. Um, well, it's cancer.
• 3:48
  And so, you know, a couple days after that, I'm meeting a urologist and he's showing us the images of the CAT scan and said, there it is. I was like, I don't know what you're talking about. I don't know. I'm not a pathologist. So tell me what I'm seeing. And he pointed out to me that, you know, my bladder, about 90 to 95% of the bladder was occupied by the tumor.
• 4:15
  And so it was a large tumor. And he wasn't 100% sure if it was cancerous, but he said his hunch is it's cancer. So we removed it a couple of days later with surgery and the surgery went well. It was a successful surgery. He was able to remove the tumor. He did say it was the largest tumor he's ever seen. I did not get a trophy though.
• 4:43
  But, yeah, so the biopsy confirmed it was cancer. And but by God's grace, God's hands have been all over this. By his grace, even though the tumor was that large, they were very surprised that it did not spread.
• 5:00
  outside of the bladder. So that was good news. And so, but we started right away after the surgery seeking both traditional and holistic care. My wife and I, we wanted to do both. And so the holistic started first and we went to a great faith-based holistic center in Green Bay called Eden Healing Oasis. And they did a great job and continue to do a great job with us.
• 5:28
  And so I started ivermectin right away, oxygen therapy. So over about a six week period, I spent 25 hours in a hyperbaric chamber. Wow. And which is great, felt great. And doing some other supplements and so forth.
• 5:46
  Fast forward to March 13th, and they wanted to go back in for another surgery to scrape the bladder out and make sure they got all of the cancer cells. And there were still some cells in there, but there again, he thought it was a successful surgery.
• 6:04
  And, uh, and that's when after that, uh, about a three week period, we waited to start the traditional therapy, which was once a week for six straight weeks, engaging in the traditional therapy where they spray into your bladder, a solution that is to kill the cancer. Mm-hmm.
• 6:23
  And, um, that unfortunately didn't work. Um, it was a painful process to go through for sure. Uh, make any man cringe. Um, but, um, and that all led up to June 30th where, um, we had an appointment to have a camera inserted into my bladder to see how things were,
• 6:47
  looking. And, um, and so I was awake for that procedure and Tammy was with me and she was able to see the monitor and, uh, I could only see the doctor's face and, uh, he said, cameras in. And then within a second or two, his face just dropped and, uh, and I'll never forget. He said, Oh no, Oh no, I'm so sorry. It's back.
• 7:14
  And he went on to explain it's a very aggressive, nasty cancer, as he put it. And so it was like a punch to the stomach. You know, I just was so hopeful that it was gone. And his consultation was, hey, I'm going to refer you to people in Milwaukee as specialists, but if it was me, I would remove the bladder.
• 7:36
  And obviously I don't want to do that. So I'm hoping that's kind of the last resort treatment. And so as health care in today's world, it moves a lot slower than we like. So that was June 30th, the referral. And I won't see that specialist until next week in Milwaukee. And Lord willing, we'll get some different treatment options from there.
• 8:04
  And the following day, I'll get a PET scan, which will be pretty exhaustive and will determine if the cancer has spread. And Lord willing, it's still contained in the bladder, which will be a lot more manageable versus it spreading.
• 8:21
  So it's been an interesting journey. So yeah, the Facebook post about carrying our cross and carrying comfort at the same time is just, it's not reality for the Christian world and community. And
• 8:37
  Unfortunately, I think it's something that's taught by too many churches. But anyways, I rejoice in all of this. I feel blessed because throughout this time in cancer, I've had opportunities to have conversations with people that never would have happened. Interesting. Because they're inquiring about my cancer and how am I doing? How am I thinking? Emotionally, how are you doing? And it's opened up so many great conversations that—
• 9:07
  even with strangers that I've been able to share my faith, share the gospel. So it's been a blessing that way. But I'll also say, you know, I feel tested. I feel the Lord has tested me. He obviously doesn't tempt us, but he will test us. Scripture is pretty clear on that. And, you know, David wrote in Psalm 26, verse 2, you know, prove me, O Lord, try me, test my heart and mind. Wow.
• 9:33
  So David asked to be tested. Yeah, that's pretty bold. Um, Abraham clearly was tested with the offering of his son, Isaac, to be sacrificed. And by no means do I compare myself to those two. Not even close. But it's just affirmation through scripture that yes, the Lord will test his people.
• 9:55
  but it's for good and great things come from testing. You know, James chapter one speaks to it, right? We were to have joy with the trials. Yeah. And through that testing, it produces steadfastness, which is steadfastness from a biblical sense is patient endurance. And boy, do I need patience and endurance through what we're going through right now. And, and,
• 10:21
  I think we have a tendency also as believers, when we go through tests and we go through trials, where we're always looking for the escape door as quickly as possible. Human nature. Yeah, human nature. Yeah. And so we want to get out of that trial. We want to get out of that test as soon as we can. But James says something else in that passage about let steadfastness have its full effect. Yeah.
• 10:45
  And so, you know, God, obviously, the Holy Spirit is sanctifying us. He's transforming us as we go through these tests and trials. He's producing that steadfastness. And if we escape too early, we likely are missing out on an opportunity for that steadfastness to take its full effect. And so...
• 11:03
  So I rejoice in that. But I'd be a liar to say there hasn't been moments since January where, you know, the flesh has caused me to stumble a little bit and have some anxiousness, have some worry. I am human. So, you know, we've had those moments.
• 11:34
  Well, to see you preaching on Sundays, you would never know you have those moments. The way you—just your faith is an example and encouragement to the congregation, to the body. I want to go back to something you said about—from James 1. It says, consider all joy, my brethren, when— Yes, yes.
• 11:53
  Not if you happen to come across a trial when you encounter various trials. Yeah. So believers in Christ, a lot of people in, especially in America, this is our context, right? Religious freedom. We're so blessed here. Spoiled is another word I might use, but I think people have been sold on comfort, convenience, and comfort.
• 12:16
  We're not ready for trials a lot of times. And Jesus said, in this world, you will have trouble. Here it says, when you encounter trials. And one thing I wanted to ask you, moving on to another variation of this, is you said testing. What's the difference then between when a believer is tested versus pruned or refined?
• 12:38
  Because God uses anything. God can use anything. And so how do we discern that when we're being tested versus pruned or refined? Because he says we are pruned and we will bear more fruit. Yes. Yeah. I think with testing, it's really about testing your faith.
• 12:59
  Um, so, uh, allowing you to, to prove, uh, the word test in the old Testament and the new Testament translates to the same. So the Hebrew and Greek are the same in it's proof by trial. So there's a proving that takes place in testing. It proves that your faith is real. It proves that no matter how difficult the trial is, your faith will overcome.
• 13:22
  Mm-hmm.
• 13:44
  And sometimes that's needed for a believer. And again, great things come from that, right? All things work together for good. And yeah, and that's God's goodness, not our own personal good, right? He gets the glory. Right, it's not a prosperity gospel type Romans 8.28. So, but yeah, there's a difference, but both we, again, should be joyful over and thankful for.
• 14:13
  Well, before we transition a little bit and talk about some of these other things that you suggested, which is great, which is the Christian responsibility we have now, and to redeem the time in our nation here, Romans 8, 18 came to mind earlier. For I consider, Paul wrote, I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed today.
• 14:38
  to us. That brings such encouragement because we can really look ahead to that glory that's to come. But yeah, these trials are temporary, although suffering, I think a lot of people can, most people watching or listening can relate to suffering and trials. Yeah.
• 14:54
  But we struggle with the messages from the world that have crept into the church, especially the comfortable church. Yeah. And I hate using that word. Comfortable and Christian church should not really be in the same context, right? No.
• 15:10
  No, not at all. And, you know, like I said, it's a testing. You know, one of the challenges going through this as well is not only do I go through it as a husband, as a father, and as Opa for my grandkids. Yeah. But I also walk through it as a pastor. And so it has been...
• 15:39
  uh, uh, an opportunity for me to really dig deep into prayer and scripture and say, Hey, you got to practice what you preach. Yes. You know, and, um, and, and you, you're still shepherding. You, you've been called to shepherd and that's why I believe God is using this for his glory, um, for one way Christian church, um,
• 16:04
  it's for our good that we're going through this and we're going through it together. Um, there's still a lot of struggles and trials that, um, we're going through. And I just want to just say that one of the greatest struggles through all of this is, uh, the impact that it has on my wife. And I mean, you understand this as well. We, we never want to see our wife struggle and,
• 16:29
  And this has been hard, you know, because she's been witnessing things. I had complications with both surgeries. I mean, she had to rush me to the ER at 1 o'clock in the morning. And she's seen me in tremendous pain. And I hate that for her, that she has to go through that. And, you know, this past week, Tammy and I attended a funeral. And it was a family member.
• 16:57
  Uh, on her side. And, uh, we went to the funeral and it was a cousin of hers and she was a year and a half older than us and she lost her battle to cancer. And so it was very surreal to sit through that funeral and the funeral parlor was just packed.
• 17:16
  And so Tammy and I couldn't sit right next to each other. I sat directly in front of her. She was behind me with her parents, but I could just sense and feel her grief and just the uncertainty. And that's the hard part. Yeah. That's the really hard part. Um,
• 17:33
  But again, we trust. We trust in him. His thoughts, his ways, his plans are perfect. Who am I to doubt? And we'll just continue to walk through this together and trust in him.
• 17:49
  His ways are above our ways. His thoughts are above our thoughts. Yes, amen. Yeah. Hard to understand, but we weren't meant to understand everything. Yeah. We were meant to trust. Exactly. That's what we're called to. Well, brother, I thank you. Your faith is encouraging. Your testimony continues to be, and I know you struggle because you are human. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah. We also wanted to talk—you've got a heart for—
• 18:14
  The church to engage and make a difference. You know, years ago we used to talk about salt and light. I don't think we knew what that meant because we look at the results today of the lack of influence the Christian church has had in our communities, in our country. But I think a lot of godly men and women are trying to just get back to that point where the church can—
• 18:39
  have an effect that God has called us to here in our context in America. You sent me a lot of bullet points. What do you want to start with? I mean, you talk about the need for men to step up in the church. You've hosted the Men of Iron Conference for years, and you've got another one coming up. It's not until February, but this God called you to do that because you sensed a need. So what about the overall body of Christ and, as you put, prioritizing kingdom work?
• 19:07
  to try to somehow restore this nation. Yeah. Yeah. You know, when you look at the American church, and we've talked about this before, how there's just such extremes. You know, on one side, you have many, many churches, unfortunately, probably the majority of churches, who won't even...
• 19:25
  mentioned the word politics. You can't speak that word. It's a dirty word in the church, and they're afraid to offend people, lose people, and so forth. And then on the other extreme, you have some churches that are so far into believing that it's the church's job to restore America, and that's their top priority. And they elevate that above the true mission of the church.
• 19:51
  Right. And so I think it's important for churches to prioritize the true mission of the church. And Jesus gave that to us before he ascends into heaven. Acts 180, he talks about, hey, you're going to go out and testify and witness on my behalf. And he gave us the pattern and the model to do that. He said Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria and to the ends of the earth. So start local, go out further and reach the end of the world.
• 20:16
  And then obviously, you know, the Great Commission as well, he gave to us. And we were to go and make disciples of all nations. That's the top priority and mission of the church. And, but with that said, you know, we want to be Christians first and foremost, and all that comes with that. Godly husband, godly wife, godly mother, father.
• 20:38
  children honor your parents everything that comes with that that's first that's our priority but it's okay to secondly be an american and love your nation and be patriotic and be patriotic yes yes and want to restore this nation to it to her roots uh which was we were founded as a
• 21:01
  I don't believe so. I mean, Christian nations don't approve of pro-abortion, allow abortions legally. A Christian nation doesn't redefine God's definition of marriage. So we've lost that, right? So how do we restore that?
• 21:20
  Well, you do the kingdom work as we're supposed to. And so we make disciples. But we also, I think it's God's design to have his people be the moral influence of his creation. And so his creation would include family government, church government, and civil government.
• 21:41
  And so I really encourage people to get to the public square, engage in the public square, be involved, have our faith inform our politics instead of Christianity being a political ideology. It's not. And so...
• 22:01
  So I just encourage, you know, the church, and I especially encourage men to do that. I think men need to step up in the church. The reason for the Men of Iron Conference, but also recently, you know, at One Way Christian Church, we have started, we call them four by fours. These are discipleship groups. Four men get together. One's discipling three others. And the goal is to, over time,
• 22:29
  everybody's in some form of discipleship four by four group men and women discipling each other we're going to do a discipleship training course this fall uh for uh the church uh because that's where i think it's a spiritual discipline that's been lost in today's church you don't have true discipling going on
• 22:50
  And sadly, what's happened is that the secular world has taken over to discipling. Counseling is discipleship. Schools are discipling our children. And obviously, they're not discipling the way we want them to be discipled. So we need to take that back. That is a spiritual discipline that belongs to the church. And we need to do a far better job of doing that.
• 23:17
  And Jesus laid that out for us. What is discipleship in the Great Commission, right? He wants us to teach everybody to observe all that he's commanded of us. And that can be done verbally, but that can also be done in the way we live.
• 23:33
  So, gosh, you said a lot there. I'd love to follow up on so many. No, I'd love to follow up on so many of the points. I think of what's happening locally at the community level. People think, well, okay, if I have to engage in politics, I'll go vote in November when there's a presidential election. But what about throughout the year and what's happening with school boards and city councils? And let's just use the example of locally here. This is running by so fast, David. Yeah.
• 24:01
  In Green Bay, what happened in this recent election with, I think, it wasn't fully a transgender person, but someone who identified as the opposite sex got elected. And we're thinking, gosh, we're trying to get people to get out and vote locally. Share a little bit about that. Yeah. So there was a Brown County Supervisor District election. This is the irony of all irony, which we obviously know doesn't exist.
• 24:30
  It was a transgender running against a pastor. Oh, gosh. And the transgender won that district. And he goes by Rachel. He is a county supervisor now. And to add a little more salt to the wound, the Brown County Supervisors...
• 24:52
  Now, Brown County is Green Bay, Wisconsin area for those of you listening and watching from outside of Wisconsin. They, 25 of the 26 supervisors, voted to have this transgender supervisor serve on the Brown County Board of Health to represent all the supervisors.
• 25:15
  And so you have somebody who is a man who believes he's a woman who is going to make decisions and recommendations on the health of Brown County. And yeah, elections matter.
• 25:32
  Yeah, this is just one example, friends, on, yeah, elections have consequences, and when Christians, when not enough Christians and conservatives don't go out and vote, this is what we get. Green Bay is not an anomaly. This is not a rare case. This is happening across the country, and until the church can understand, until you, believer—
• 25:55
  can either go out yourself and get involved in these or make sure you're talking about these issues at church. Don't keep it behind church walls. And that's part of your heartbeat is to get the church outside of church walls. Yeah, and going back to Jesus' pattern of testifying, witnessing for him, it was Jerusalem.
• 26:15
  And then Judea, which is where Jerusalem was based. And then Samaria, so going north. And then, so it's so important for us as a local church to focus on local issues in politics because we do miss that. And so that's our focus at one way is to focus locally. So, you know, I have met with the mayor of Green Bay one on one. I'm trying to meet with the Brown County executive one on one.
• 26:43
  just to share my heart and to really understand where do they view the Christian community belongs in the vision of the city and the county. And this is important. We have a pastor who cares enough to go out and meet with the political leaders because we have religious freedom, but we've taken that for granted, and it's not going to be like this forever. So I think this is a great way to end the podcast and just to encourage believers to,
• 27:11
  Don't get election fatigue. Every local election, an opportunity for you to get the right person in to affect your community. That does matter. So, David, thank you. God bless you, brother. Friends, pray for Pastor David Roth. Please. And please keep in touch with him through One Way Christian Church on Facebook.
• 27:34
  And again, the church website is owccgb.org. Brother, we'll do this again. We'll see you Sunday. Thank you. Lord willing. Lord willing. All right, friends, thank you so much. Please share this podcast. I think we covered a lot of important issues and especially our perspective on trials of this life. God bless you. And as always, keep speaking the truth about things that matter. See you next time.