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Feminist Movie Friday: A Tale of Two Sisters · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, this Sanny and Samantha. I welcome stuff. Never told
0:07
Speaker 1: your production by her radio.
0:18
Speaker 2: And for this feminist movie Friday, well, I don't know.
0:23
Speaker 2: I had to be real slow about that, but apparently
0:25
Speaker 2: I need to be. I am in the mood for
0:27
Speaker 2: a horror movie. But we're making it AAPI because you know,
0:33
Speaker 2: it's still AAPI History month and going with the classic
0:37
Speaker 2: Korean horror A Tale of Two Sisters written and directed
0:41
Speaker 2: by Kimji Wu. We're tapping into an old folklore which
0:45
Speaker 2: was mentioned and we talked about a little bit with
0:47
Speaker 2: the ladies of What's her Name podcast titled Jianghwa hongry
0:52
Speaker 2: Yan Jeon, which translated the story of Junghua and Hungryan,
0:56
Speaker 2: which is a fairly tragic fairy tale and in clues
1:00
Speaker 2: the evil stepmother and reincarnation, which I was thinking about
1:04
Speaker 2: why that story seems so sad to me when everybody
1:07
Speaker 2: seems to kind of be okay with the ending. It's
1:09
Speaker 2: just the whole ideal of reincarnation. It's not something I
1:13
Speaker 2: grew up with, but I guess if you grew up
1:15
Speaker 2: with that, that gives you a little bit of like hope. Yeah, yeah,
1:20
Speaker 2: it still makes me very sad and feel like there's
1:22
Speaker 2: no justice in the world.
1:24
Speaker 1: It was sad, I thought, I personally thought it was
1:27
Speaker 1: very sad before we start.
1:30
Speaker 2: I guess content warning for so many traumatic and tragic
1:35
Speaker 2: things here. Death by suicide is going to be mentioned,
1:40
Speaker 2: affairs and just mental health diagnosis all throughout, so know that. Also,
1:47
Speaker 2: it is a Korean horror movie, so it's extra tragic.
1:50
Speaker 2: For some reason in my head, they have to make
1:53
Speaker 2: it a little more damaging. It seems wow. And if
1:59
Speaker 2: you haven't seen it it and you want to watch it,
2:02
Speaker 2: we're gonna be spoiling the hell out of it, even
2:03
Speaker 2: though it is like a twenty two year old film. Pause.
2:07
Speaker 2: You can actually go find it on Shutter, which is
2:10
Speaker 2: not a sponsor at this point. They should be, though,
2:12
Speaker 2: you really should be Shutter if you want sponsorships, where
2:15
Speaker 2: are the ones? As well as AMC plus that's kind
2:19
Speaker 2: of how they all have all of that. Again, not
2:22
Speaker 2: a sponsor, but I did get a seven day free trial,
2:24
Speaker 2: so me too. There you go. That's how we watched
2:27
Speaker 2: it because there's nothing else. There's all like, it's not
2:29
Speaker 2: even able to rent anywhere else. I was like, oh, okay, interesting,
2:33
Speaker 2: just set off my so pause, here, go do that
2:36
Speaker 2: seven day trial, and go come back and listen to
2:38
Speaker 2: the rest of this episode. All right. So with all that, yes,
2:41
Speaker 2: this movie was released in two thousand and three, and
2:43
Speaker 2: there is an American remake titled The Uninvited, which is
2:47
Speaker 2: a movie I have repeatedly watched and repeatedly forgotten about,
2:51
Speaker 2: because every time I will see it as like a preview,
2:55
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, I watch it because I'm trying to
2:56
Speaker 2: watch you know, we love a good horror film. Here
2:59
Speaker 2: the time I get to that and I'm like, oh, wait,
3:01
Speaker 2: I've seen this. I think this happened like three or
3:03
Speaker 2: four times now, and even to the point that I
3:05
Speaker 2: was trying to compare these two movies, and I still
3:08
Speaker 2: could not remember what happened in The Uninvited, y'all, And
3:11
Speaker 2: I think I've stayed it in a few times.
3:13
Speaker 1: I haven't. We confused ourselves a bit with that one
3:19
Speaker 1: because I've also seen it. But and I was telling
3:23
Speaker 1: you about it, and you were like, no, no, no.
3:28
Speaker 2: Not the same one. But then I.
3:30
Speaker 1: Couldn't remember really what happens in it, so it didn't matter.
3:34
Speaker 2: You and I went back and forth and did this happen?
3:37
Speaker 2: Maybe this happened. This happened. We're doing great.
3:42
Speaker 1: That's good to say about the quality of the film. Actually,
3:44
Speaker 1: I have no idea, but I can't remember.
3:49
Speaker 2: Again, I cannot remember from the life of us. But
3:52
Speaker 2: for the Korean world, this was a pretty big film.
3:56
Speaker 2: A lot of awards were given, even to Best New
3:59
Speaker 2: Actress M Su Jung, who plays Sue Me. So yes,
4:04
Speaker 2: there's got a lot of love in sotop Korea as
4:07
Speaker 2: well as in other places, like for a foreign film
4:10
Speaker 2: is pretty popular in its take. So and it was
4:14
Speaker 2: during the era of like Asian horror films being remade
4:18
Speaker 2: in the US, like Grudge, and all of that was
4:20
Speaker 2: coming at the same time, and you know, that's really haunting.
4:23
Speaker 2: And I still can't shake those memories either. I had
4:25
Speaker 2: to watch this during the day just in case because
4:27
Speaker 2: I'm alone here.
4:30
Speaker 1: No, you were taking I understand.
4:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's too many things that jump around, and then
4:40
Speaker 2: Korean Asian horror films, I feel like a whole different levels.
4:43
Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm a I'm not gonna be alone by
4:45
Speaker 2: myself in this house that you would be petrified by.
4:49
Speaker 2: So yeah, if you tell.
4:50
Speaker 1: Me, try not to watch horror movies when I'm alone
4:53
Speaker 1: at your house.
4:57
Speaker 2: Anyway, So yes, there you go. Obviously there are some differences,
5:02
Speaker 2: but again we're going to concentrate on the Korean version
5:05
Speaker 2: because I can't quite remember the American anyway. It's okay,
5:08
Speaker 2: So let's begin with the plot. We have sisters Sumi
5:11
Speaker 2: and su Yuan, who have been gone for some time. Assumi,
5:14
Speaker 2: the oldest daughter, has been in a psychiatric hospital and
5:17
Speaker 2: finally gets to come home with Sue Yan. Upon their arrival,
5:21
Speaker 2: after going to explore around the grounds and kind of
5:24
Speaker 2: establishing the fact that they're very close sisters, they are
5:26
Speaker 2: greeted by their stepmother, You and Jew, who seems overly
5:31
Speaker 2: eager about them being there, like very fake. The girls
5:34
Speaker 2: seems united and holding hands and not speaking. Is obvious
5:38
Speaker 2: that that it's very tense. The father, who seems kind
5:41
Speaker 2: of useless just an fyi, is exhausted from the very
5:45
Speaker 2: beginning with everyone there, It doesn't matter, He's just exhausted.
5:49
Speaker 2: Things are tense in the home as Sumi is adjusting
5:52
Speaker 2: but also trying to protect her younger sister the whole time.
5:55
Speaker 2: Young Jew seems to be upset as well, taking different
5:58
Speaker 2: medications and trying to get close to her husband. The father.
6:03
Speaker 2: There's birds involved, which seems like pets for Young Jew.
6:07
Speaker 2: Nightmares of ghostly figures ensue all of them except for
6:10
Speaker 2: the father. As things start to escalate, we find that
6:14
Speaker 2: Young Jew is taking out her frustrations, or it seems
6:17
Speaker 2: according to Sumi Sue Yung, and Sumi tries to get
6:21
Speaker 2: her father to do something about it, and he's very resistant,
6:23
Speaker 2: and he keeps trying to get her to talk, and
6:25
Speaker 2: she's like, you know, you're not doing anything. So it
6:27
Speaker 2: counts ut back and forth. One night, when their uncle
6:30
Speaker 2: and his wife come to visit, awkward conversations but happened
6:33
Speaker 2: between in Yun Jew and the uncle. It is uncomfortable
6:38
Speaker 2: and is at this time that me He who is
6:40
Speaker 2: the wife, suffers a severe seizure like it was a
6:43
Speaker 2: real grotesque I didn't know what was happening, if she
6:45
Speaker 2: was allergic to something or she was being possessed. There
6:47
Speaker 2: was a lot going on. After they leave, me He
6:51
Speaker 2: tells him that she saw a ghost of a little
6:54
Speaker 2: girl under the sink. At the same time, Young Jew,
6:58
Speaker 2: where we see she is also confided by the ghosts
7:02
Speaker 2: like it's looking around the kitchen, puts her hands down
7:04
Speaker 2: and she gets grabbed classic Asian takes all the time.
7:09
Speaker 2: Later we find the birds all that we did the
7:11
Speaker 2: whole scene. Also pictures that Sumi found of all of them,
7:16
Speaker 2: including Young Jew, are destroyed, with Young Jew's face marked
7:20
Speaker 2: up is At this point, Yung Ju punishes Suyan by
7:23
Speaker 2: forcing her into a wardrobe which has some dark history
7:27
Speaker 2: that is not supposed to be talked about, even to
7:29
Speaker 2: the points that me tries to get her dad to
7:31
Speaker 2: move it. As all this unfolds, we see both Young
7:34
Speaker 2: Juu and Sumi falling apart. A fight breaks down between
7:38
Speaker 2: Yan Ju and Sumi as Sumi discovers Young Jew's abuse
7:41
Speaker 2: in and juw dragging a bloody bag across the house.
7:44
Speaker 2: Sumi believes it is su Yuan in the bag and
7:46
Speaker 2: both fight. It's then that her father returns, as he
7:49
Speaker 2: had been gone to pick someone up because he has
7:51
Speaker 2: a phone call, very mysterious phone call. He carries Sumi,
7:55
Speaker 2: who he discovers on the floor and also tends to
7:57
Speaker 2: Young juw urging her to take her meds her pills
8:00
Speaker 2: and as if everything comes to a head, it is
8:03
Speaker 2: soon discovered that su Yun was already dead and was
8:06
Speaker 2: never there. In fact, since Sumi's return, she and her
8:09
Speaker 2: father were the only ones in the home. Young Jew
8:12
Speaker 2: was never there, and Sumi had been diagnosed with disassociate
8:16
Speaker 2: of identity disorder and was making all these other people
8:20
Speaker 2: like in her head, creating them in their head and
8:23
Speaker 2: on Jew. It was a bit different than what Sumi
8:26
Speaker 2: had portrayed our to be. After the incident, Sumi returns
8:31
Speaker 2: to the mental health facility and in Ju promises to visit.
8:35
Speaker 2: Often weird a tense moment where Sumi grabs Young Jew
8:39
Speaker 2: and they have a struggle. In Jew it and her father,
8:43
Speaker 2: Sumi's father returned to the home. We do have a
8:47
Speaker 2: flashback to see the tragic moments of su Yun in
8:50
Speaker 2: her mother's death. While their mother was sick, the father
8:53
Speaker 2: had brought yung Ju, the mistress, back to the house. Distraught.
8:57
Speaker 2: The mother died by suicide within the war drop in
9:00
Speaker 2: su Yuan's room when Suyuan discovers her, The shock causes
9:05
Speaker 2: the body and the wardrobe to fall on suyan and
9:08
Speaker 2: though yan Jew discovers it, she leaves without helping, and
9:14
Speaker 2: because of an argument between yan Ju and Sumi, Sume
9:17
Speaker 2: never goes to check in on su Yuan like they
9:20
Speaker 2: heard the noise, but no one goes to check except
9:22
Speaker 2: for young Jew, and that's how we learn that all
9:25
Speaker 2: that death, which is pretty horrifically played out, and in
9:28
Speaker 2: the end, the ghost of su Yuan does return because
9:31
Speaker 2: she has actually been there and takes revenge against Yan
9:35
Speaker 2: Jew end scene.
9:38
Speaker 1: Wow, Yeah, it's pretty bad. I mean she basically Sueyan
9:46
Speaker 1: basically suffocates under the wardrobe, is alive, asking for help,
9:53
Speaker 1: asking for and that's her final words are asking her
9:56
Speaker 1: sister for help. Yeah, and the mistress says to uh
10:02
Speaker 1: Sue me, Uh, you're gonna regret this one day, You're
10:06
Speaker 1: gonna regret this during their argument, and it's because she
10:09
Speaker 1: knows her sister's dying.
10:14
Speaker 2: That's such a weird way to be, Like that means
10:17
Speaker 2: you neglected her and you essentially killed her. Yeah, because
10:21
Speaker 2: everybody was in the house.
10:23
Speaker 1: I feel like my take was she actually was going
10:28
Speaker 1: to find somebody to be like there's something wrong, and
10:31
Speaker 1: then she got in this argument and then she was
10:33
Speaker 1: like what never never mind.
10:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, she was going back and forth. You could see
10:37
Speaker 2: her in her what am I going to do? What
10:39
Speaker 2: am I going to do here? And then she got
10:42
Speaker 2: confronted by Sumi odd odd way to respond in any way,
10:48
Speaker 2: like she's a nurse.
10:49
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, so it was it was a very dark grim.
10:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you don't feel bad about her, is So
10:58
Speaker 2: it's like it was like Sumie wasn't that off about
11:01
Speaker 2: who she was, you know what I mean, like that,
11:05
Speaker 2: like she may not have actually abused abused, but she abused, yeah,
11:11
Speaker 2: sou Yun, And it was a big like whatever was happening.
11:25
Speaker 2: So yeah, there are themes. I guess we'll try to
11:28
Speaker 2: blame them out in our heads and on the mic family,
11:33
Speaker 2: however distorted. It is like the mother was there trying
11:36
Speaker 2: to comfort su Yun at times. Obviously the sisters dearly
11:40
Speaker 2: loved each other and their mother. For Sumi, it became
11:45
Speaker 2: a whole conversation about protecting her. So like her her
11:50
Speaker 2: trauma is partially that she blames herself for not protecting
11:53
Speaker 2: her from whatever evil that she saw her stepmother at
11:58
Speaker 2: that time, her dad's mischief being h and she kids
12:02
Speaker 2: she did. She to the point that she's even like
12:03
Speaker 2: shaking her and like telling her, I'm i'm aa, you
12:07
Speaker 2: have to talk to me. I told you must talk
12:08
Speaker 2: to me, and and so Ya never implies that actually
12:11
Speaker 2: was any abuse.
12:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's kind of the interesting thing is that
12:18
Speaker 1: it's very evil stepmother. Yes, kind of a situation like
12:23
Speaker 1: kind of the fairy tale you were talking about. So
12:29
Speaker 1: I can see sue me both almost making it simpler
12:35
Speaker 1: and heavy quotes of like she is this evil stepmother,
12:38
Speaker 1: that is who she is, Yeah, but the truth being
12:42
Speaker 1: she was still bad, right, she just wasn't that right,
12:48
Speaker 1: But we don't know. We don't know for sure, you
12:50
Speaker 1: don't know.
12:51
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's interesting again, like her never even
12:55
Speaker 2: talking to her father exactly, except for she does try
12:58
Speaker 2: to advocate, saying she's doing all these things, and the
13:00
Speaker 2: father was like, I need you to stop. You have
13:03
Speaker 2: to stop this without any implication about what it is,
13:06
Speaker 2: and he never really seems to be helping out other
13:08
Speaker 2: than just medicating her. Yeah.
13:12
Speaker 1: I mean, I agree with your previous statement that he's
13:15
Speaker 1: pretty useless throughout because you know, the first time you
13:21
Speaker 1: watch it, I assume you've got kind of a sixth
13:24
Speaker 1: sense vibe, like, you know, you get to the end
13:27
Speaker 1: and the whole time he's like your best s uff
13:30
Speaker 1: and we need to get you on this medication. But
13:34
Speaker 1: it still feels like, right, he could have done a
13:39
Speaker 1: little bit.
13:40
Speaker 2: Right, I mean a little bit more. He brought in
13:43
Speaker 2: his mistress while his wife was still alive and terminally ill.
13:48
Speaker 2: Like there's so many ly like, so many things to
13:50
Speaker 2: be like you were the catalysm this, dude.
13:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And I mean obviously like the thing with
14:03
Speaker 1: the wardrobe, which was hinted throughout as being like this
14:07
Speaker 1: traumatic thing, we don't talk about it. It was very
14:11
Speaker 1: much a he never wanted to confront what happened, right,
14:16
Speaker 1: He didn't want to deal with it, and it was
14:19
Speaker 1: a really painful thing to deal with. But if you've
14:21
Speaker 1: you know, if something like this has happened, you've got
14:25
Speaker 1: a kid, you're gonna have to deal with it, right
14:30
Speaker 1: or else, Like I mean, she was in a mental institution.
14:36
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, you would think a little closer hand. I
14:40
Speaker 2: did find it also interesting that again the stepmother tries
14:46
Speaker 2: to play happy mom at the beginning. Of course, again
14:50
Speaker 2: this is something in her head because she was never there. Yeah,
14:53
Speaker 2: so in her mind that this was what she was
14:55
Speaker 2: trying to do, which is interesting build up. Also, the birds,
14:59
Speaker 2: why were the there if they weren't actually on Jews pets?
15:04
Speaker 2: Why were they there? Or were they there? Maybe they weren't.
15:07
Speaker 1: See This is the question, because I after I watched this,
15:10
Speaker 1: this happens to me a lot with horror movies. I'm like,
15:13
Speaker 1: I want to make sure I got the point of this,
15:16
Speaker 1: so I go and look it up online, even without
15:20
Speaker 1: like this being work. So I looked it up online
15:24
Speaker 1: and people seem to think that the birds are real
15:27
Speaker 1: and she killed them or kill them.
15:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, it does show that where she does that. So
15:32
Speaker 2: why were they there?
15:36
Speaker 1: I think that I think it's meant to mess with
15:39
Speaker 1: your head. Maybe the dad bought them as some sort
15:42
Speaker 1: of this is my.
15:47
Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't know, replacement for your sister.
15:50
Speaker 1: Oh god, oh terrible. No, I'm saying like maybe it's
15:54
Speaker 1: a like for his mistress, but I don't I'm not
15:59
Speaker 1: sure sure. Yeah, one of my thoughts. It does get
16:05
Speaker 1: to the end and it has a bunch of flashbacks,
16:07
Speaker 1: as you said, and it's like, oh no, it was
16:09
Speaker 1: actually Sue me doing this doing this. The birds were
16:14
Speaker 1: one which you did have a funny and the breakdown
16:16
Speaker 1: of it. You had a funny line that made me
16:18
Speaker 1: laugh where you didn't explain the birds at all. You
16:22
Speaker 1: just for like, there are birds.
16:29
Speaker 2: Other than the house gets abused supposedly in our mind.
16:35
Speaker 1: But I'm like, why yeah, yeah, but just so you know, listeners, Uh,
16:40
Speaker 1: they're birds. Yeah, they're birds that die. As part of
16:46
Speaker 1: the horror narrative.
16:48
Speaker 2: I guess dog makes me sad. Okay. So another theme
16:53
Speaker 2: obviously is grief and how that kind of pours out,
16:56
Speaker 2: because we also see after after the flash, when we
17:01
Speaker 2: see how Sumi is processing and it's not well. She
17:03
Speaker 2: goes into this associate identity disorder and plays a part
17:06
Speaker 2: of everyone, including Suyuan and Young Jew to the the
17:12
Speaker 2: fact that like she tries to I don't know if
17:15
Speaker 2: this actually happens where she tries to get in bed
17:17
Speaker 2: with her father and so her father leaves because he's like, whoa, yeah,
17:24
Speaker 2: but we don't know that because it looks like it's
17:26
Speaker 2: on Jew, which you know, thank you director for not
17:29
Speaker 2: trying to actually make it seem as if they were
17:32
Speaker 2: laying in bed together, like we don't ever get a
17:34
Speaker 2: flashback of being her. I appreciate that. But like all
17:38
Speaker 2: of those things that she's thoroughly playing those parts in
17:41
Speaker 2: her in her like trauma, and that's kind of how
17:44
Speaker 2: those grief comes out. And you see Young Jew the
17:47
Speaker 2: stepmother guilt, like when she sits and like it's kind
17:50
Speaker 2: of holding her face, and I feel like some of
17:52
Speaker 2: that is her memory is the flashback as well, and
17:56
Speaker 2: then back and forth, and so it's interesting to see
17:59
Speaker 2: her like, you know, something is wrong and she did
18:01
Speaker 2: something wrong, because she also notices finally here's the ghost
18:05
Speaker 2: at the end, and that's part of her like guilt,
18:08
Speaker 2: it seems.
18:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And it's very apparent from the beginning for
18:17
Speaker 1: a lot of reasons that sum is not in a
18:20
Speaker 1: good place, but you don't know why. But you have
18:24
Speaker 1: like this overhanging the whole time. You're like, well, how
18:28
Speaker 1: did she end up in this place? Why is there
18:30
Speaker 1: this tension everywhere? What is it? And as you slowly
18:36
Speaker 1: learn more and more about this family dynamic and then
18:41
Speaker 1: ultimately what happened that caused this trauma like the fallout,
18:48
Speaker 1: it makes more sense thinking about it in retrospect of
18:52
Speaker 1: like how Sumi was behaving and how she was visualizing things,
18:56
Speaker 1: and how she was projecting these certain emotions or ideas
19:01
Speaker 1: on other people. And so it was really interesting. It
19:06
Speaker 1: was an interesting look at that kind of trauma and
19:10
Speaker 1: grief and how we process it or struggle to process it.
19:14
Speaker 1: Or don't process it. But yeah, just her because in
19:19
Speaker 1: the beginning, like her and her sister holding hands. Yeah,
19:23
Speaker 1: her sister's not even that, but they're so close and
19:26
Speaker 1: they don't say anything, like it's just you don't know
19:29
Speaker 1: what it is, but you know, okay, they're it feels
19:34
Speaker 1: like they're bound together by trauma.
19:36
Speaker 2: Right right. I mean it kind of makes you imply
19:40
Speaker 2: like whatever happened to the mom may have been the
19:42
Speaker 2: big thing. Yeah, because it kind of goes back and
19:45
Speaker 2: forth on that and yeah, like how do you grieve that?
19:48
Speaker 2: Because she doesn't even really grieve her she's grieving her
19:51
Speaker 2: mom with Sue Young, who is not alive as well.
19:53
Speaker 2: But she's actually traumatized by Sudey Young's death more than
19:56
Speaker 2: her mom's death, which was bad enough. They don't even
19:58
Speaker 2: get to have that moment, uh, to grieve one person.
20:03
Speaker 2: They grieve everyone, even the like expected death. And I
20:06
Speaker 2: put that in quotes in like her mother being terminally
20:09
Speaker 2: ill already and then watching her deteriorate like I had
20:14
Speaker 2: originally thought maybe Young Jew came in as a nurse,
20:18
Speaker 2: which may have been the pretense of how she came
20:20
Speaker 2: into the house, but everybody knew they were having an
20:21
Speaker 2: affair type of conversation. Yeah, but it's interesting to see
20:26
Speaker 2: because also, uh, it implies that he's a doctor, she's
20:29
Speaker 2: a nurse in what what? What type of what? What
20:33
Speaker 2: are there? Like? What is their specialties? And what is
20:36
Speaker 2: happening here? For a minute, I thought maybe yan Ju
20:39
Speaker 2: was pushing like Suyan was. I knew Suyan wasn't there.
20:42
Speaker 2: Yanju being not being there actually was a surprise to me.
20:44
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, yeah, I mean too, that's interesting.
20:48
Speaker 2: That's the twist I was not expecting that. I was like, okay,
20:53
Speaker 2: and and that yung Ju was actually pushing her psychosis
20:56
Speaker 2: more by like because sounds like, oh, but she's talking
20:59
Speaker 2: to su Young like she's there, so she must be
21:01
Speaker 2: playing into this.
21:03
Speaker 1: Right, right, because normally when they pull a twist like that,
21:08
Speaker 1: it's one it's one person.
21:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a new twist. Also, like I was like,
21:14
Speaker 2: maybe she's also going through psychosis as well. Was with
21:18
Speaker 2: in my head because of guilt, Yeah, that's what I
21:22
Speaker 2: had imagined.
21:25
Speaker 1: I could see that.
21:26
Speaker 2: Yeah.
21:27
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean the m the death of their
21:33
Speaker 1: mom and how it happened because.
21:34
Speaker 3: She was sick, but still uh yeah, oh but still yeah,
21:40
Speaker 3: how was she doing it in her closet too, Like
21:42
Speaker 3: that's mean, well, when you do that to you the
21:44
Speaker 3: father again, how does he escape not seeing the one
21:48
Speaker 3: to see?
21:50
Speaker 1: Maybe there's another another version of the movie words.
21:55
Speaker 2: I could also be like a lot of Asian movies
21:58
Speaker 2: were very like misogynistic in itself and really feel like
22:01
Speaker 2: they can blame them, like blame the mistress instead of
22:03
Speaker 2: the husband, blame you know what I mean, like that level.
22:06
Speaker 1: Like well, I also feel like, uh, a lot of
22:11
Speaker 1: horror is very much you know, whose pain we want
22:17
Speaker 1: to see? Women's right, so like men, they have like
22:22
Speaker 1: their masculine manly pain, but for the like actual right,
22:27
Speaker 1: Oh this horrible thing happened to me.
22:30
Speaker 2: Let's base it on them.
22:31
Speaker 1: Yeah.
22:32
Speaker 2: Also their deaths. Let's make it about their deaths and
22:34
Speaker 2: it's they're false and then their traumas not And I
22:38
Speaker 2: was trying to hold them together because there's nothing wrong
22:40
Speaker 2: with us, that's men. Yeah. Obviously there's also is talk
22:54
Speaker 2: about the mental health of all of them, specifically assume me,
22:58
Speaker 2: but like all of the process and what looks like
23:02
Speaker 2: when it is this associated identity disorder. Of course this
23:07
Speaker 2: is not true to life in all of this, but
23:12
Speaker 2: like It is interesting how they portrayed that because you
23:15
Speaker 2: don't quite know how it's portrayed. You just see her
23:20
Speaker 2: her views and also brings you a little bit confused
23:22
Speaker 2: because I'm like, who isn't that bag? We know? So
23:25
Speaker 2: is it an animal? I imagined? Like, honestly, I imagined a
23:27
Speaker 2: deer or bear in the bag. I thought we were
23:29
Speaker 2: going to see inside of it and then ended up
23:31
Speaker 2: being a porcelain doll with no blood.
23:34
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's just a bunch of dolls.
23:38
Speaker 2: Yeah. And I did notice her hands cut like where
23:41
Speaker 2: she had stabbed the view, but it was actually her
23:43
Speaker 2: own hand. I did notice that that note was interesting,
23:47
Speaker 2: and the and the panning of you being revealing that
23:50
Speaker 2: it sumed me and not in jew but also like
23:55
Speaker 2: the coping mechanisms again, that disassociative identity disorder coming through
24:00
Speaker 2: and how she is coping. At the very end, when
24:03
Speaker 2: she's back in the Meddal Health hospital, she still hears
24:05
Speaker 2: Sujin and the whistling, which I thought was also interesting,
24:10
Speaker 2: But it turns out she's also a ghost, so yeah,
24:13
Speaker 2: which is it? Which is it? But it was a catalyst,
24:17
Speaker 2: I guess, and making sure that this plot kept going through.
24:19
Speaker 2: But again. Now I'm confused. But was it really a
24:23
Speaker 2: ghost or was it wasn't it? Was she really there
24:26
Speaker 2: or wasn't she?
24:28
Speaker 1: I think the ghost was there? Yeah, okay, So in
24:31
Speaker 1: the context of the film, yeah, I think that ghost
24:34
Speaker 1: was there at the end.
24:35
Speaker 2: So we're also saying in this that the cut that
24:40
Speaker 2: the brother and his wife me were not there. That
24:45
Speaker 2: never happened, right or did it?
24:49
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't. I thought it did.
24:52
Speaker 2: Oh did you think it really did? No?
24:55
Speaker 1: I don't know. But now that I've been thinking about
24:57
Speaker 1: it more, I'm not sure. But the first time when
24:59
Speaker 1: I watched its, oh yeah, that happens.
25:01
Speaker 2: Why do they hate each other? Is the other part
25:03
Speaker 2: to me is like, why does he hate her? Though
25:05
Speaker 2: they seemed very chummy? That did he figure out? But
25:09
Speaker 2: it was it would have been SueMi? So why would
25:11
Speaker 2: he hate Sumi? He didn't do anything wrong technically.
25:14
Speaker 1: Oh. I honestly love this kind of debate with horror movies.
25:19
Speaker 2: So my assumption was they were never there.
25:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's I think you're correct. Okay, But
25:28
Speaker 1: the first time I watched it, I was okay, all
25:31
Speaker 1: in I was like, oh, yeah, they're there. I thought
25:34
Speaker 1: she was having moments of lucidity and moments of not okay,
25:40
Speaker 1: But now I think you're correct.
25:41
Speaker 2: Right, And the whole thing is like she had them
25:44
Speaker 2: on her side of despising and making all the audience
25:47
Speaker 2: think something in yun Ju is the villain here? Yes,
25:51
Speaker 2: they're not far off. Speaking of so who is the
25:54
Speaker 2: villain in this? In this scenario, I mean, Yunju is
25:57
Speaker 2: not great. She absolutely let these like she could have
26:01
Speaker 2: saved the su Yan and she refused to because you
26:04
Speaker 2: wanted to make someone else miserable.
26:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think like the best version I could
26:15
Speaker 1: give her, the best read I could give of this,
26:18
Speaker 1: what happened is that she had a moment where she
26:25
Speaker 1: didn't know what to do, which she clearly did, but
26:29
Speaker 1: it wasn't about killing them. It was just like a
26:33
Speaker 1: panicked moment and then she went in the hallway and
26:36
Speaker 1: then acted terribly and let them die. So it's not
26:40
Speaker 1: like even the best read I can think of is
26:42
Speaker 1: not good right?
26:44
Speaker 2: All right? Like I feel like she was sitting there
26:46
Speaker 2: watching her like Suan scratching desperately trying to get out,
26:51
Speaker 2: and just watched her. At first she was hold fed
26:53
Speaker 2: and then she's like, hmm, what do I do here. Yeah,
26:57
Speaker 2: that's what I read that. Yeah. Oh so I also
27:01
Speaker 2: would say again the father, useless father, maybe the whole villain,
27:05
Speaker 2: because none of this would have happened had he had
27:07
Speaker 2: had some decency and been faithful.
27:12
Speaker 1: He's I was surprised at how much I was like, Wow,
27:17
Speaker 1: this guy, he's not doing anything.
27:20
Speaker 2: That nothing, not a thing, useless getting mad because she's
27:26
Speaker 2: not okay.
27:28
Speaker 1: I wonder how much of that is a kind of restriction,
27:34
Speaker 1: a restriction of the narrative maybe because like if we
27:39
Speaker 1: as the audience, I don't know, uh, or they just
27:44
Speaker 1: didn't give him any time. But I wonder if they
27:46
Speaker 1: were really worried we would figure it out maybe, and
27:49
Speaker 1: so they were like, let's just make him.
27:53
Speaker 2: Let's just get this done. Well. Also, I know in
27:56
Speaker 2: the fairy tale, because it also infuriated me, was that
28:00
Speaker 2: the thought the uh, the noble man does nothing until
28:05
Speaker 2: all these people other people die, and then finally one
28:08
Speaker 2: shaman comes to like, ay, your wife right now, she's
28:12
Speaker 2: the worst. You might want to get rid of her.
28:14
Speaker 2: You're gonna be cursed. And he didn't do anything until
28:16
Speaker 2: he figured out he was gonna be cursed. So I
28:20
Speaker 2: wonder if it's supposed to be like a play on
28:21
Speaker 2: that too, lesson learned to useless. Yeah, of course there
28:32
Speaker 2: comes at the very end revenge.
28:35
Speaker 1: Uh.
28:36
Speaker 2: So we see as Sue Yuan has the final moments
28:40
Speaker 2: and like kind of sue it seems Sue Yun communicates
28:43
Speaker 2: to Sue Me when she does the whistle to be
28:46
Speaker 2: like I got this mm hmm.
28:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Sue Me is like lying in a hospital
28:53
Speaker 1: bed and smiles and like tears come out of her eyes, right,
28:57
Speaker 1: and then you see Sue Yuan.
29:01
Speaker 2: Climbing out the closet. They love making ghostly girls coming
29:06
Speaker 2: out of like areas climbing.
29:08
Speaker 1: It's scary, I get it, to be honest.
29:11
Speaker 2: Climbing under the bed. The grudge that was at the grudge.
29:14
Speaker 1: The grudge is when she like opens the covers and
29:17
Speaker 1: there's the nightmare.
29:19
Speaker 2: Y'all. They pushed me on that one, and I still
29:22
Speaker 2: have my moments about back because I was like, was
29:24
Speaker 2: in my bed, this is my safe space? How dare you?
29:28
Speaker 1: It was very clever because a lot of us think
29:30
Speaker 1: the bed, you hide under the covers and that's your
29:32
Speaker 1: safe space, and they were.
29:34
Speaker 2: Like what if it's in there, which they kind of
29:37
Speaker 2: had that with Sueyn having nightmares, but it was actually
29:41
Speaker 2: me having nightmares for so young. Yes, anyway, y'all, if
29:46
Speaker 2: you like horror movies, you should go take the time
29:49
Speaker 2: to watch this one and then come tell us what
29:51
Speaker 2: we need to.
29:51
Speaker 1: Know, tell us your interpretation. Yeah, because I mean, obviously
29:58
Speaker 1: it's based off this fairy tale. But Samantha and I
30:02
Speaker 1: we were discussing it before and we were like, well,
30:05
Speaker 1: what was this which I like? I like that.
30:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we love a good like on like unfinished
30:15
Speaker 2: not unfinished, but like I like if.
30:18
Speaker 1: It's sort of I have to kind of think about it.
30:20
Speaker 2: And it leaves people to have different interpretation.
30:24
Speaker 1: Yes, I honestly like all types of horror movies, but
30:27
Speaker 1: I do like the type that leave leave it up
30:30
Speaker 1: for interpretation and discussion.
30:33
Speaker 2: Is as good or is this bad? Or what's just happened?
30:35
Speaker 2: Was it real or wasn't it exactly?
30:39
Speaker 1: Listeners, you've got to let us know. You can email
30:43
Speaker 1: us at Hello at stuff Whenever told You dot com.
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Speaker 1: You can find us on Blue Sky at momsa podcast,
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30:55
Speaker 1: your books. Thanks Zawi's too, our super produce senior Execs
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Speaker 1: Pricer My and your contributor Joey.
31:00
Speaker 2: Thank you and thanks to you for listening.
31:02
Speaker 1: Stefan never told you the protection of My Heart Radio.
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