Latest / Hopestream: Parenting Kids Through Addiction & Mental Health / Bringing Your Child Back From Fentanyl Addiction, a Family Story

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Bringing Your Child Back From Fentanyl Addiction, a Family Story · Hopestream: Parenting Kids Through Addiction & Mental Health

0:03
Sarah: I mean, I remember there being some times where I would just lose my mind.
0:07
Sarah: Like, what is wrong with you?
0:09
Sarah: You know, why are you doing this?
0:11
Sarah: What, I told you, you can't do this anymore.
0:13
Sarah: Why do you keep doing it?
0:15
Sarah: Or, you know, trying to like reason, you know, like logically this makes no sense.
0:20
Sarah: And so the more I learned, the more I was able to, to just try to be calm and engage her in those tiny little windows when that was possible, which I mean, it would really be like I could maybe get.
0:34
Sarah: Ask one open ended question, and then seven days later, ask another one, you know?
0:48
Brenda: You're listening to HopeStream.
0:50
Brenda: If you're parenting a young person who misuses substances, is in a treatment program, or finding their way to recovery, you're in the right place.
0:59
Brenda: This is your private space to learn from experts and gain encouragement and support from me, Brenda Zane, your host and follow mom to a child who struggled.
1:09
Brenda: This podcast is just one of the resources we offer for parents.
1:13
Brenda: So after the episode, head over to our website at hopestreamcommunity.
1:17
Brenda: org.
1:18
Brenda: I'm so glad you're here.
1:20
Brenda: Take a deep breath, exhale, and know that you have found your people.
1:25
Brenda: And now let's get into today's show.
1:28
Brenda: Hi, friend.
1:29
Brenda: I'm so glad you're here with me today.
1:31
Brenda: I am excited to let you know about something new I'm adding to the podcast.
1:35
Brenda: I know you like a good hopeful recovery story from someone's overcome their struggles with substance misuse.
1:45
Brenda: And I love sharing those stories with you because I know they can provide the strength you need to keep going on hard days.
1:52
Brenda: As Kathy and I were talking a few weeks ago, we realized we haven't really told very many family recovery stories, which is kind of crazy because we're always talking about how this is a family problem.
2:04
Brenda: It impacts the entire family system.
2:07
Brenda: Yeah, we haven't been very intentional about telling those stories.
2:11
Brenda: So we will be doing more of that in the future.
2:14
Brenda: We're going to create a playlist.
2:16
Brenda: So if you have found our playlist page on our website, hopestreamcommunity.
2:21
Brenda: org, you will be able to go and listen to all these family stories.
2:26
Brenda: I think these episodes will give you some great insight about how parents are navigating this rollercoaster ride.
2:34
Brenda: You're going to get nuggets of wisdom that they've gained along the way.
2:37
Brenda: And hopefully these stories are going to highlight the importance for you of taking care of yourself and surrounding yourself with community.
2:47
Brenda: And as a reminder, we always change people's names for their privacy.
2:52
Brenda: Today you are going to hear from Sarah, a mom in the stream whose rollercoaster ride started back during the COVID lockdown.
3:00
Brenda: That's when she realized her daughter was using THC products as a way of coping.
3:05
Brenda: But, as always, things progressed pretty quickly, and before she knew it, Sarah found out her daughter was actually addicted to fentanyl, and she knew she had to act fast.
3:18
Brenda: Sarah is a freaking rockstar mom.
3:21
Brenda: I have met her personally at her retreats, and if anyone embodies the HopeStream mom, it is Sarah.
3:29
Brenda: She's a sponge for information.
3:31
Brenda: She was willing to accept her family's situation.
3:34
Brenda: Not approve of it, but accept it.
3:36
Brenda: She plugged herself into our community and she took full advantage of all the resources available from the Partnership to End Addiction, which I'll put a link in the show notes to.
3:46
Brenda: Best kept secret ever.
3:48
Brenda: Love the partnership and all the resources.
3:52
Brenda: And Sarah also realized how important it was to get on the same page, or at least in the same chapter, with her husband when it came to dealing with their daughter's struggle.
4:02
Brenda: I am proud to say I know this mom, and I know you're going to get so much out of our conversation.
4:08
Brenda: Please enjoy this HopeStream family story with Sarah.
4:26
Brenda: Welcome Miss Sarah.
4:27
Brenda: I'm so glad to have you here.
4:29
Brenda: One of our active, engaged members of the stream.
4:36
Brenda: When did you join?
4:38
Brenda: It's been a while.
4:38
Brenda: I feel like you're OG.
4:40
Brenda: Yeah.
4:41
Brenda: Geez,
4:43
Sarah: how long has the stream been a thing?
4:46
Sarah: I probably joined in like 29.
4:49
Sarah: No, 2020
4:51
Brenda: maybe 2020 late 2020 early 21.
4:54
Brenda: Yeah, I feel like I met you on one of the partnership calls.
5:00
Brenda: Is that true?
5:00
Brenda: Okay, I remember that.
5:02
Brenda: And it's so funny because I didn't often reach out to people, but I could see certain people.
5:09
Brenda: I could just see it in their face.
5:10
Brenda: I was like, Oh, she needs like a big hug.
5:14
Sarah: Oh, she
5:14
Brenda: did.
5:15
Sarah: Yes, she did.
5:17
Brenda: And I remember you were in your garage because it was COVID.
5:20
Brenda: Yeah,
5:21
Sarah: because it was COVID and I was working out there.
5:23
Sarah: Yeah.
5:23
Sarah: So it was like either freezing cold or boiling hot with Oh my gosh,
5:31
Brenda: can you imagine, like, think back to that, that's, and you were dealing with all of this craziness.
5:36
Brenda: Yeah.
5:36
Brenda: Mm hmm.
5:37
Brenda: Yeah.
5:38
Sarah: That's, yeah, that's when I, I learned all about it was right, they, they really
5:43
Brenda: Overlapped.
5:43
Brenda: So yes, well, we'll get into that because I thought it would be helpful to go back and just bring us back to When you first started noticing things were going off the rails Like what were some of the things that you saw what was going on and I can't even imagine doing all this during kovat It was hard enough to do just without a pandemic a global health pandemic But bring us back to that time so we can just get a little bit of background
6:12
Sarah: So I guess one of the things I remember most about that time was how My daughter was, let's see, during COVID 2020, she would have been teen, yeah, 15 years old, or 16, right in there.
6:28
Sarah: So, starting like in maybe 8th grade, 7th or 8th grade, is when I started noticing, like, her friend group really changed, and you know, she had some friends who are maybe kind of always involved in some drama and that kind of stuff and but we still had a very good open communication with each other and also with her friends like they, they often would come hang out here so and I knew their parents and so it was, it just felt like, okay, these are preteen and then teenage girls kind of doing the things that they do.
7:02
Sarah: There's, you know, we all expected the dramatist to come at some point and then, uh, I guess what I'm getting at is what I remember in the very beginning is there was times where I would think, am I overreacting to how, you know, what I'm seeing, or is this just normal age appropriate behavior or, you know, I had, I had kind of a lot of that And so I think it was, I mean, it was probably before COVID that she had started, you know, like I, I assume she had probably tried alcohol or maybe even tried weed.
7:37
Sarah: I don't know.
7:37
Sarah: It, it, nothing was seeming that bad, but she was just kind of starting to do more things.
7:43
Sarah: Like we have a park near our house and we live in a relatively safe area.
7:47
Sarah: Yeah.
7:47
Sarah: But.
7:48
Sarah: I would always tell her and her friends, don't walk through the park to come home because it's just a dark park.
7:53
Sarah: And anyone who's there in the middle of the night or, you know, after dark is probably not someone you want to run into when you're a 14 year old girl.
8:01
Sarah: And, but so they were like, they would do it anyway.
8:06
Sarah: And I remember one night, uh, that was back when I was checking her location and I checked and I saw that she was in the park and it was, you know, it was probably 7 PM and it was dark already.
8:15
Sarah: And I, I just like drove up there, found them, read them the riot act and like, you know, that kind of thing.
8:22
Sarah: And so, and in that moment, I thought, wow, that was probably a reaction.
8:26
Sarah: I'm probably just, you know, but in hindsight, they were probably up to something, you know, and I didn't know it at that point.
8:33
Sarah: So I, I was starting to notice her sort of rebelling a little bit and stuff.
8:36
Sarah: And then during COVID, I'll never forget my husband and I were, you know, we're all home.
8:42
Sarah: During that first couple of weeks from school and work and so our son was in maybe sixth grade and our daughter was I guess she would have been in 10th grade and My husband are sitting at the table We're both working and I thought I smelled weed, you know in our house and I kind of looked up and I look at my husband and he at the same time he looked at me like And we both looked at each other like, what?
9:06
Sarah: And so we went down the hall to our daughter's room and she was in there just cleaning her room, hanging up her clothes.
9:13
Sarah: You know, she had the window open just having a nice little day, but clearly had smoked some weed in there before.
9:18
Sarah: You know, she had like a towel sort of under the door and stuff.
9:22
Sarah: And so we, you know, we went in there, we're like, talk to her about it, did all that kind of stuff.
9:27
Sarah: So, and that, that didn't seem super alarming.
9:29
Sarah: It was like, okay, knock it off.
9:31
Sarah: But it wasn't like, It didn't, it didn't feel like the end of the world.
9:34
Sarah: Felt like this is a 15 year old, it's, there's a pandemic, she had a joint, she's, you know.
9:39
Sarah: So but then, I, I mean, it's taken me a long time to tell this because it's so gradual, I think.
9:46
Sarah: Like, it's so gradual until it's not, you know.
9:49
Sarah: There's, pretty quickly what started happening after that is probably her behavior, you know, she would be really, She'd be fine one minute, and then sobbing the next, and again, is this teenage girl stuff?
10:03
Sarah: Is this COVID or is something else going on?
10:07
Sarah: And at this time I didn't, I didn't even know the word fentanyl, you know, I didn't know anything about it.
10:12
Brenda: Can I ask you, at that point, what did you know about today's weed?
10:19
Brenda: Because it sounds like you weren't terribly, terribly concerned, you know, which I think a lot of kids try weed, right?
10:25
Brenda: Like it's kind of to be expected, but what was your knowledge about the actual product?
10:32
Sarah: Definitely knew it was, it's much stronger than, you know, anything that was going around when I was her age.
10:38
Sarah: And I knew that it was, Like, I was just understanding, vaping was still relatively new, you know, even five years ago, at least to me so I was, I, I did know that, that weed could be in those, you know, it could be synthetic in those products and so maybe even More concentrated and more harmful but I hadn't noticed like her grades were still fine.
11:00
Sarah: You know, I hadn't noticed any kind of Depressed behavior or anything, you know, I just I didn't I had no idea about like Hyperemesis syndrome or you know, all these things that in psychosis and the stuff that I've learned since I had no idea about any of that yet.
11:17
Sarah: Oh, the learning curve is so steep.
11:19
Sarah: It is.
11:20
Sarah: Oh my God.
11:21
Sarah: I feel like I have a PhD in it now and I was just kind of floating along back then.
11:25
Brenda: Exactly.
11:26
Brenda: What was happening with your relationship during this time?
11:30
Brenda: Were you guys still close or was?
11:32
Sarah: We were and, and that's why, I mean, I guess maybe looking back that was another sign sort of was that she was becoming less communicative with me.
11:43
Sarah: But again, like what, you know, 15 year old girl, I mean, I just kept, I just, nothing ever was a huge red flag because our relationship was good.
11:54
Sarah: But until she started, like there was one time where she started, she just kind of flew off the handle and started yelling at me.
12:02
Sarah: For, you know, for really out of the blue for no reason, which in hindsight I know now was because she was high on, uh, fentanyl or coming off of it just so the behavior was just completely made no sense.
12:14
Sarah: And there was like, we, it never got physical, but there was a brief moment where I could tell.
12:19
Sarah: That she was about to push me or something and I just thought, Oh, this is a new, you know, there, something is happening here because that's, that is not the kind of relationship we have, you know right at all.
12:32
Sarah: Uh, so that was shocking.
12:36
Sarah: And then there was, I don't remember where in this whole trajectory it was, but there was one night when she'd gone out with some friends again, it was during the shutdown time.
12:46
Sarah: Like, I think we were allowed to move around again, but.
12:49
Sarah: Uh, school wasn't back in session yet, I don't think, and she came home and threw up, like, just, you know, out of the blue, threw up all over her room, and I thought she was sick.
13:00
Sarah: You know, I, she was saying, oh, I had, my stomach wasn't feeling good or whatever, helped her clean it up, got her in bed and all that.
13:06
Sarah: The next day, she got up and wanted to go out again with her friends that night, and I said, you're, you're sick, you were throwing up all over the place last night, she's like, oh, I'm fine now, that kind of thing.
13:17
Sarah: I thought that was strange because she seemed very sick the night before, uh, and within two weeks, she came home and the same thing happened one more time.
13:27
Sarah: And that's when I, that's when I was like, okay, what, what are you putting?
13:32
Sarah: I remember saying, what are you putting in your body?
13:34
Sarah: What are you doing?
13:35
Sarah: You're, you're taking something into yourself that is making you sick and I need to know what it is and I need to help you.
13:43
Sarah: Stop, you know, and then, and then she lied.
13:46
Sarah: Of course, it was, you know, Oh, nothing.
13:48
Sarah: I, you know, you're overreacting.
13:49
Sarah: And then, you know, it went from there.
13:52
Sarah: A lot of the things that I now recognize as the behaviors that make sense for someone who's misusing substances before you understand that whole concept.
14:02
Sarah: The behaviors make zero sense and you're just like, what is going on with this kid?
14:07
Sarah: Why is she acting this way?
14:09
Sarah: And,
14:09
Brenda: you know, at what point along this journey had you started looking for some resources by now?
14:17
Brenda: Or when, when was it that it kicked in where you're like, I better start seeing like how I can get some help.
14:25
Sarah: At some point she admitted, she told me That she'd tried Percocet and that I was like, okay, thank you for telling me and let's talk about it.
14:37
Sarah: And you know, she didn't say I'm addicted to it, but she said, I tried it and I have used it since and I feel sick.
14:43
Sarah: This is, and I like how it makes me feel when, you know, that kind of stuff.
14:46
Sarah: And that's when I think that is when I called.
14:49
Sarah: A drug counselor I found in like psychology today or something there, they have a great web directory of people and
14:56
Brenda: yeah,
14:56
Sarah: they do and but of course it being COVID, no one's doing anything in person.
15:01
Sarah: So I think, I think I talked to him first before this other stuff went into play.
15:07
Sarah: So, so he was a lifesaver because He, on our first call, he took my call and I told him kind of what I was dealing with and he said, yeah, it's, it sounds like she's probably using fentanyl.
15:20
Sarah: He knew because he had been an addict before as a younger guy himself and had a ton of experience.
15:27
Sarah: And he said, you need to get Narcan in your house.
15:30
Sarah: You need to get her you know, start, these are the resources that, that we can start putting in place and and I remember thinking to myself, like, well, she's not an addict.
15:40
Sarah: I mean, she probably just tried this at a party once or twice.
15:43
Sarah: See, I didn't understand how addictive it was that really that's all it takes to become addicted to it.
15:48
Sarah: And, but he was the one who put me in touch with the partnership, the parent partnership, and that was, It's a lifesaver for me just, you know, I start because, because then things really started happening quickly.
15:59
Sarah: Like once she admitted that to me and I kind of understood that what we were dealing with was on a whole different level, sort of simultaneously, that's when I started reading and listening to podcasts and, uh, you know, I joined the parent partnership and, and even then, I remember in one of the, the Monday night meeting, which is the one I usually went to they were talking about, you know, a lot of people in that meeting had older kids, like some of them were adult, adult kids.
16:27
Sarah: So they were talking about, oh my gosh, you know, multi year struggles with heroin and they, you know, just these really Difficult things and I remember sitting there thinking, Oh my gosh, I'm glad I'm here.
16:40
Sarah: So I can stop us from getting anywhere near that, you know, like I'm going to fix it before that happens.
16:46
Sarah: And uh, yeah, you just, so, so much of it is unlearning what you think, you know, as you're also learning what you know, you don't know.
16:54
Sarah: And so another catalyst was, uh, at some point.
16:59
Sarah: Like, I don't, we did not understand that she was addicted to these pills.
17:02
Sarah: We knew she had tried them.
17:04
Sarah: We didn't know there was fentanyl in them.
17:06
Sarah: Then we started to understand that.
17:08
Sarah: We still didn't know that she couldn't just not do them.
17:11
Sarah: You know, we just thought, well, just don't do it anymore.
17:13
Sarah: Like, just stop doing it.
17:15
Sarah: So there was one night I think where we found, I found a pill in her room or something and my husband and I confronted her and she freaked out and was screaming at us and then crying and we were just trying to, trying to just.
17:28
Sarah: Let her know that we're trying to help her and we said something like, you know, do you know that you could die from this?
17:35
Sarah: And she said, yes.
17:36
Sarah: And if I do, I don't care, something like that.
17:40
Sarah: And I said, okay, so it sounds like you're suicidal.
17:43
Sarah: And she's like, well, I'm not like trying to kill myself, but I don't care if I die.
17:46
Sarah: So it's sort of the thing.
17:48
Sarah: And that was when from whatever I had been doing to that point.
17:52
Sarah: I knew that I could call, uh, we have a hospital near us that also has like.
17:58
Sarah: It's a, it's a regular hospital, but they also have a robust, uh, mental health and substance abuse you know, clinic and so I knew I like I maybe had in the back of my mind that that's what, who I would call if it got to that point.
18:12
Sarah: So I called them again.
18:14
Sarah: They said, because this is COVID and no one can be anywhere, you know, in person Normally they would have taken her in and assessed her and maybe got her into an IOP or a PHP, but they said you have to go through the emergency department.
18:27
Sarah: So I took her to the emergency department, stayed there all night.
18:33
Sarah: They ended up admitting her into their psych ward or their psych, they had like a full time residential like lockdown type program.
18:42
Sarah: Right.
18:43
Sarah: Yeah.
18:43
Sarah: So she was in there for about five days and yeah, that was when, you know, at that point I was in it.
18:50
Brenda: I wanted to just go back to.
18:53
Brenda: The behaviors make sense comment that you made because I think that's so common that it doesn't make any sense Yeah, you know when you start seeing this behavior, you're like this makes no sense whatsoever.
19:06
Brenda: You've got loving parents You've got a you know, like all of this stuff.
19:10
Brenda: What was going through your mind?
19:11
Brenda: And then how did you get there?
19:12
Brenda: How did you start to understand?
19:14
Brenda: Oh, this actually does make sense.
19:16
Sarah: Uh, that took me a long time because You know, I think for, well, for several reasons, one is, you know, my age, I'm 51 and I think growing up sort of the zeitgeist around what I would have understood or heard about addicts or alcoholics is, is, you know, you have to hit rock bottom, tough love, like it's really all about willpower and, you know, I did not that I judge people like that, but I just, I had never really had to deal with it on my own.
19:51
Sarah: In such a personal way.
19:53
Sarah: So I, I didn't, you know, I, A, I didn't think this would ever be something I would have to deal with, with my kid and part of the reason was because I had been very intentional about making sure that, you know, the way I raised my kids was with a really open, loving, kind relationship.
20:13
Sarah: And I felt my, my husband and kids and I have a great family bond, you know, and I, you know, both he and I grew up in homes that weren't necessarily as close as the one we made together.
20:24
Sarah: And so, you know, you think, well, check, okay, we got that handled.
20:27
Sarah: You know, I. Breastfed my kids.
20:29
Sarah: So got that handled.
20:31
Sarah: You know, , we don't watch too much tv.
20:33
Sarah: Yep.
20:33
Sarah: You know, you do all this stuff that you're, you think is gonna make a difference and maybe it does to some people, but so I, I had to really, it took me a long time and I, and I had to do a lot of learning.
20:45
Sarah: I, I'm the kind of person where if I am faced with a challenge I will.
20:51
Sarah: gather as much information as I can to figure out how to meet it.
20:54
Sarah: And so that's what I did.
20:56
Sarah: So between the partnership and then joining the stream Like I said, I listened to every podcast I joined.
21:02
Sarah: Uh, Yale has a addiction medicine program that again, like during COVID or right around then they had like free online, uh, classes that you could sit in or watch or lectures.
21:17
Sarah: I just tried to learn as much as I could.
21:20
Sarah: Beyond Addiction, too.
21:22
Sarah: That was the first book, and that, that drug counselor that I talked to initially, that was one of the things he told me as well, to get that book, that, that, and the whole craft philosophy that all made so much sense to me.
21:33
Sarah: And so under, starting to read those things and learning about it, that helped me really get, get that.
21:39
Brenda: And did that shift how you interacted with her?
21:42
Brenda: Yes.
21:43
Brenda: What changed when you, when it started to click, like, this is actually solving a problem for her, this makes sense, what, what, what did that make possible?
21:51
Sarah: I definitely was not as reactive.
21:54
Sarah: I mean, I remember there being some times where I would just lose my mind, like, what is wrong with you?
22:00
Sarah: You know, why are you doing this?
22:02
Sarah: I told you, you can't do this anymore, why do you keep doing it or, you know, or, you know what this like, just trying to, trying to like reason, you know, like logically this makes no sense.
22:13
Sarah: And so what changed was I started to see it as like you said, like a, uh, it was something that at least initially she had started doing because of some other.
22:25
Sarah: Discomfort she was feeling and it so you know initially it made her feel better and then very soon It becomes a thing where you just feel like crap all the time, but you feel even worse if you're not using it So the more I learned The more I was able to, to just try to be calm and engage her in those tiny little windows when that was possible, which a lot of times, you know, when you're dealing with a high person, as you know, there's not a lot of like, hey, let's have a chat, you know I mean, it, it would really be like, I could maybe get, ask one open ended question and then seven days later, ask another one, you know, yes.
23:05
Sarah: So I also had to really Accept what our situation was.
23:11
Sarah: I remember feeling like, okay, acceptance is my challenge right now because I can't keep, you know, I'm the first shoot.
23:18
Sarah: She went to after the, the mental hospital, she went to, uh, a rehab place, uh, you know, uh, program inpatient program for 45 days.
23:31
Sarah: And I was, went in there thinking, Oh, this is great.
23:34
Sarah: She'll go here.
23:35
Sarah: It'll be all fixed.
23:36
Sarah: She'll come out.
23:37
Sarah: We'll just pick up where we left off and move on.
23:39
Sarah: You know, like I, I had to really.
23:42
Sarah: And every step I was kind of fighting with myself for a while about like, this isn't, we're not real.
23:47
Sarah: It's not that bad.
23:48
Sarah: You know, it's going to get better.
23:49
Sarah: It's we can overcome.
23:50
Sarah: And so it was really having to, to work on my own self sort of spiritually even, and just sort of understand that as absolutely horrifying and scary as it was, like I really had to accept where we were and, and just operate from that place.
24:07
Sarah: Even though I wish so bad I could operate from, like, a little bit farther down the road.
24:12
Sarah: Yeah.
24:13
Sarah: Because it's so terrifying.
24:15
Sarah: You, you know it's life and death.
24:16
Sarah: You know that any, any day could be the last one.
24:20
Sarah: And, you know, trying to, trying to be calm and accepting when that's your reality is just crazy making.
24:36
Brenda: Hey there, are you feeling stuck in a cycle of drama and arguments with your child?
24:41
Brenda: Worried, sick about their substance use?
24:44
Brenda: I have been there and I want you to know there's hope.
24:47
Brenda: This podcast is just one piece of the curated and trustworthy resources and solutions we offer for parents.
24:54
Brenda: We recognize you need emotional support and a solid plan for moving forward, making positive change in your family.
25:02
Brenda: So in addition to connecting with other parents and feeling like you're part of something bigger, we also teach you practical skills and strategies to dial down the drama and diffuse those heated moments.
25:14
Brenda: We step you through the evidence based craft approach, a game changer that can help you invite your child to accept help.
25:22
Brenda: Without resorting to tough love or waiting for rock bottom.
25:27
Brenda: We have so much more than the podcast waiting for you.
25:30
Brenda: Head over to HopeStreamCommunity.
25:32
Brenda: org to tap into all our resources and become part of the HopeStream family in our private online community.
25:40
Brenda: Remember you are not alone in this.
25:42
Brenda: We're doing it together.
25:44
Brenda: Now let's get back to the conversation.
25:59
Brenda: All during this time as well, you are Dealing with trying to work during COVID at home, you have a son, you have a spouse, what was the relationship with your husband?
26:12
Brenda: Like, what was this doing with that?
26:16
Sarah: Yeah, I mean, I would say in the very beginning, it was a it was tense, because as I was Uh, his job's a lot more demanding than mine like mentally and physically, and so he wasn't able to give as much of his intellectual time over to learning all the stuff that I was learning.
26:35
Sarah: So as I'm learning, you know, I would try to sort of relay things to him, but he was maybe still struggling with the, why is she acting this way?
26:43
Sarah: Why is she doing this?
26:44
Sarah: You know, we've.
26:45
Sarah: We've given her everything you need to give a person for a happy life.
26:50
Sarah: And, you know so we did have a couple of sort of tough conversations in the beginning.
26:57
Sarah: And his ideas about what we should do about it were different from mine.
27:02
Sarah: And you know, at one point he said, we just have to move.
27:05
Sarah: We've just got to sell the house and move out of state.
27:07
Sarah: And, and I, I completely understood where he was coming from with that.
27:12
Sarah: Because I had had that same feeling myself, but, but then I said, you know, I, I'm not going to uproot our other kid and myself, frankly, my family's all here.
27:23
Sarah: My support system is here.
27:24
Sarah: My friends are here.
27:25
Sarah: You know, I've lived in this area my whole life, like, I don't know if it would actually be that helpful for us to isolate ourselves like that, even though it would be helpful if we could isolate her.
27:35
Sarah: However, the drugs are everywhere you go, the problems will always be there.
27:40
Sarah: And so, so we had some, the reason I had gotten to that is because I had done all this.
27:46
Sarah: reading and stuff.
27:47
Sarah: And so he, he did, he read, uh, Beyond Addiction as well.
27:51
Sarah: So we could talk about it.
27:52
Sarah: He, any of the books I read, he would read.
27:54
Sarah: And you know, we got on the same page pretty quickly.
27:58
Sarah: When she went to that first treatment program, we did family therapy through them online.
28:04
Sarah: You know, we did they have a, you know, all the families of the kids get together and do therapy.
28:09
Sarah: So that was helpful to see how other couples were.
28:13
Sarah: So yeah, I mean, I, I remember one really kind of hard conversation, but where I just said to him, I just need to say that, like, if she doesn't survive this, you know, if she dies from this, you can't blame me for not having, uh, you know, done this or done that, or for not having done it this way, or that I said, you know, I'm, Doing everything I can and we have to do everything we can together and know that to a certain extent there's some things that just aren't in our control.
28:46
Sarah: And so that, that's a hard conversation to have.
28:48
Sarah: But he really, he heard me and I think from there we kind of just both understood that we were going to do everything in our control.
28:58
Brenda: It's so scary.
29:00
Brenda: That is such a profound conversation to have and one that you don't.
29:04
Brenda: ever imagined that you will be having, right?
29:07
Brenda: Like you can't, like, are these words really coming out of my mouth that I'm saying this, that my daughter might not survive and she was what, like 16 at this time?
29:18
Brenda: Yeah, probably 16.
29:20
Brenda: That's pretty, you know, I don't know.
29:23
Brenda: I think it kind of rocks you to your core.
29:25
Brenda: Yeah.
29:26
Brenda: Things become very clear.
29:28
Brenda: Right.
29:28
Brenda: It's like,
29:29
Sarah: Oh.
29:30
Sarah: One of the, the women on the partnership calls she said something that, that has stayed with me.
29:37
Sarah: Which was that she realized at some point that her son, you know, may not live through this and she wanted to make sure that that whatever their last words to each other were they were loving and kind, you know, so every no matter what she would every night tell him she loved him and give him a hug because she didn't know she'd see him the next morning and That is the kind of, like, brutal reality that you're living in as a parent in this situation.
30:05
Sarah: But I took that to heart, because I thought, you know what, that's really true.
30:09
Sarah: I don't want to have to live with thinking the last thing I said to her was, What's your problem?
30:13
Sarah: Why aren't you stopping?
30:14
Sarah: Or, you know.
30:16
Sarah: And it is hard to be loving to a person who is It's at their worst.
30:20
Sarah: I mean, these drugs make, make people act like the worst people ever.
30:26
Sarah: It's awful.
30:26
Sarah: Right.
30:28
Sarah: So no one's really acts, no one becomes like this wonderful, fun to be around person, even though they might think they are.
30:34
Sarah: It's like, oh my God.
30:36
Brenda: No.
30:36
Brenda: And this all happened, I think, in your case, very Quickly, like it feels to me like you had a fairly accelerated journey from, Oh, my daughter's smoking weed.
30:48
Brenda: Yeah, you know, that's what kids do.
30:50
Brenda: It's COVID.
30:50
Brenda: They don't have anything else to do to, Oh my gosh, she's using fentanyl and she is suicidal.
30:57
Brenda: Yeah.
30:58
Brenda: That was a very quick pace for you.
31:01
Brenda: So she goes through this treatment, she gets back.
31:04
Brenda: What happens from there?
31:06
Sarah: So, after the first residential program that I, you probably remember that because that's when, like, our insurance was trying to say it wasn't medically necessary for her to be there, even though, oh, the reason she went there, I left out the little part that she did overdose.
31:20
Sarah: Right.
31:21
Sarah: And, I remember that as well.
31:23
Sarah: Yes.
31:24
Sarah: She did overdose.
31:25
Sarah: I, I happened to hear her her room is really close to ours and I could hear her breathing strangely one night and went in and.
31:32
Sarah: Thank God we had Narcan, like our drug counselor told me in the beginning, I just, I could not believe this was happening, you know, but we had it, gave it to her, revived her, you know, she went to the ER, in the ER they said, like some, they had a psychiatrist zoomed in.
31:50
Sarah: and asked her if she wanted to kill herself or anyone else.
31:53
Sarah: And she said, no.
31:54
Sarah: And at that, that morning she was like, I didn't mean, I wasn't trying to kill myself.
31:58
Sarah: I just, you know, I, it was by accident.
32:01
Sarah: I'm not, you know, she was horrified that it had got, that it was that close.
32:05
Sarah: But because of that, and then because when I, I, I don't even know how I found this place either.
32:09
Sarah: I had called after that day that she overdosed that next day, I was on the phone probably the whole day trying to find a, a program That would take our insurance that, you know, all the stupid things you have to worry about when you're in crisis.
32:25
Sarah: And so when we did the intake there, she also wasn't suicidal or homicidal.
32:31
Sarah: And so based on that, the insurance said, well, she could definitely be fine with a lower level of care.
32:37
Sarah: And fortunately, after it was all said and done, the insurance We had, you know, wrote a bunch of letters, had a bunch of people write letters, and I don't know.
32:47
Sarah: She came home, and that had been overall a good experience.
32:52
Sarah: I think she learned a lot.
32:53
Sarah: She got to see how it was for some other kids.
32:56
Sarah: The kids there, there was probably, I don't know, a total of 10 or 12 kids there, and they all had different, different stuff going on.
33:04
Sarah: But so she got to see some other family systems and maybe appreciate us a little more.
33:08
Sarah: And we, we got some great family therapy.
33:10
Sarah: We had never done that before.
33:12
Sarah: So I thought, okay, uh, the, the, the bummer was we, we live outside of Los Angeles by about 35 miles and the, this place was in Malibu and the closest like aftercare program they had, like IOP was.
33:29
Sarah: Even farther away from us than Malibu and it was a, it was like, yeah, you, we can get her to this great program.
33:38
Sarah: We work with them all the time.
33:39
Sarah: It's Monday through Friday, you know, from eight to five and there was no way I could, I, I couldn't drive her out.
33:47
Sarah: I mean, it would have been.
33:50
Sarah: I just couldn't have done it and so, so then I set on the track of like, now she's, she's coming home.
33:57
Sarah: Where are we going to, what are we going to do?
33:59
Sarah: There's nothing around us.
34:02
Sarah: That's when I learned that our specific area has They either have like 5150 situation or nothing, you know, and, and she needed something very different.
34:12
Sarah: So I was scrambling to try to put that together.
34:16
Sarah: She did have a therapist that she had been seeing before who she went back to and that she was a big help trying to, trying to get.
34:24
Sarah: Like integrate all of her caregivers like she had obviously a pediatrician who I had told about the problems But she really didn't have any any Thing really, you know, no amazing.
34:36
Sarah: I was like, it's so amazing cuz to me It's like if if she had diabetes you'd be all over this case, but absolutely, so Her pediatrician was not didn't really have anything for us.
34:48
Sarah: She did have a Psychiatrist that we only ever talk to over zoom who really only just again, do you want to kill yourself?
34:57
Sarah: Do you want to kill anyone else?
34:58
Sarah: No.
34:59
Sarah: Okay.
34:59
Sarah: You're fine.
34:59
Sarah: Like I got her going to a different psychiatrist.
35:01
Sarah: I mean, just all the things trying to cobble stuff together.
35:05
Sarah: In the meantime, she decided she really wanted to go back to in person school.
35:09
Sarah: This was her junior year and I, I wanted her to just finish it out online because I didn't want her back with these same people and but she really wanted to go back and I thought, well, she's been clean of this substance for over two months and, you know, let her go back to school.
35:27
Sarah: Until she started hanging out with, uh, the same group, but another, a new person who was, uh, You know, problematic and like, probably she was back to school.
35:38
Sarah: She was probably back home for two weeks at the most before she started using again.
35:44
Sarah: And that was such a gut punch to me because, you know, she had done so much, we had done so much and invested so much time and stressed so much and, you know, and I was still.
35:59
Sarah: And it was just that quick, you know, so,
36:03
Brenda: so scary.
36:04
Brenda: Yeah.
36:05
Brenda: So what, what is going on with you at this point from your.
36:10
Brenda: Like, how are you coping?
36:13
Brenda: When that was happening?
36:13
Brenda: Staying upright.
36:14
Brenda: Yeah, during this, like, Oh my gosh, I thought this problem was gonna be fixed, and it is not fixed, clearly.
36:20
Sarah: That, when I say the partnership saved me, that's, that's probably how, because I just, in some of these situations, there, there's really nothing anyone can do.
36:31
Sarah: There's nothing you yourself can do, and you just feel like you have to hold on, but to what, you know?
36:36
Sarah: So for me, again, that's learning as much as I can, but it's also like, oh my gosh, I had so many crystals and essential oil and burning sage, and I'm, I'm very like, uh, I'm, I'm really into that kind of stuff, you know, spiritually.
36:54
Sarah: And so I leaned in on my spiritual faith and I just really tried to focus on taking any advice from people who had been there.
37:06
Sarah: Uh, you know, I did the, the partnership will offer the.
37:10
Sarah: parent coach.
37:12
Brenda: I
37:12
Sarah: did, uh, I did that at least twice.
37:14
Sarah: And so sometimes it was, Oh, I got my own therapist.
37:17
Sarah: You know, I, I got into therapy.
37:19
Sarah: Sometimes it was just a question of having someone to talk to and, and knowing that like, yeah, they're all hanging up this phone and I'm still going to be in the same place I was in.
37:32
Sarah: I don't know, you just try to, I, it's, it's kind of like, I was just trying to give myself a little bit of space, you know, push off everything for a little bit here and there, a half hour here or, you know, 20 minutes here and I started using insight timer, probably on your recommendation meditating and you know, just, I, I guess that's just the way I operate.
37:53
Sarah: Like I, if I feel like I'm doing everything I can, then at least I know I'm doing everything I can.
37:58
Sarah: And I did want to, if it hadn't been for my son, You know, for having another kid, I think I probably might have spent, I might have spent a month or two in bed, just gone into bed, and because of that, I, many days I felt like that, like I just wanted to disappear, I couldn't like looking back, I don't know how I got through it, I really don't, I really don't, I don't know how any of us get through it, because It's
38:23
Brenda: really hard.
38:24
Brenda: It's so hard.
38:25
Brenda: Well, that's, that's why we lock arms, right?
38:28
Brenda: And we say, okay, sister.
38:31
Brenda: Yeah.
38:32
Brenda: I have a, I have like a millimeter more strength than you do today.
38:36
Brenda: So today I'm, I'm on.
38:38
Brenda: And then tomorrow you might be on.
38:40
Brenda: And I know you've met good friends in our community who also have had to revive their children with Narcan.
38:47
Brenda: It's just so heavy.
38:51
Brenda: And you do.
38:52
Brenda: at some point, want to, you just want a break.
38:56
Brenda: Yeah.
38:56
Brenda: Right?
38:57
Brenda: Like, just let me have a break from this intensity for a moment.
39:03
Brenda: And, and for your story, it did not, it did not turn around right there.
39:09
Brenda: Like, you guys kept, you were in the fire for longer.
39:12
Brenda: Yeah.
39:13
Brenda: Your daughter ended up going to Kentucky to get the net device, which there's I'll put in the show notes, I'll put links to those episodes.
39:23
Brenda: How did that come about?
39:24
Brenda: And what happened with that process?
39:27
Sarah: Things were just getting bad again.
39:29
Sarah: And we had tried other things like buprenorphine or suboxone.
39:34
Sarah: But I, both things like, I, I don't know if both of, one of them you have to be, you have to be off Fentanyl for a certain amount of time before you can start.
39:44
Sarah: Vivitrol.
39:45
Sarah: Yes.
39:45
Sarah: Yeah.
39:45
Sarah: That's right.
39:46
Sarah: And then the other one, there was something, like everything we tried, either, either she wasn't being straight with me about whether she was.
39:53
Sarah: I don't know if she's still using or not, like, I don't think she couldn't stop using long enough to be off of things.
39:59
Sarah: I mean, I left out how many times I sat through withdrawals with her as she was trying to stop, like, you know, so 24 hours of just putting her in the bathtub, getting her out of the bathtub, feeding her, you know, holding her, letting her, like all the, It's just, it's just as excruciating to watch your kid going through that.
40:17
Sarah: So alongside all of this, I was on the stream and learning from other, other moms on the stream, including Patty Vargas, whose daughter had gone, did her daughter?
40:32
Sarah: Yeah.
40:32
Sarah: She got the net device.
40:33
Sarah: Yeah.
40:34
Sarah: And, and then was working for the net device in Kentucky.
40:37
Sarah: And so, I mean, at this point I was like, I will try absolutely anything.
40:42
Sarah: And we didn't have, like, We didn't have the money to, to do, you know, I've had a couple of people over the course of this journey have said, Oh, well, I would have done anything it took for my kid.
40:54
Sarah: And it's like, really, would you really have sold your house and moved into a tent with your other kid for the off chance that maybe some treatment would work?
41:03
Sarah: You know what I mean?
41:04
Sarah: It was just like.
41:05
Sarah: So I was really conscious about, like, what can we actually afford that's available that will work?
41:11
Sarah: And so at this point, so my daughter was a senior, I think.
41:16
Sarah: This was her senior year by now.
41:19
Sarah: Fairly getting through school like she was going but you know, I mean she was she was using all the time But we kind of gotten to the point where we were having more of an open dialogue about it You know, I had because I had gotten to the point where I wasn't reactive about it anymore I would just say to her when you are ready to get better.
41:41
Sarah: I am ready to help you You just tell me when like I tried to still have boundaries still have you know rules and stuff, but just mostly just fundamentally Letting her know that I know what's happening with you and I want to help you and when you're ready, I'll help you.
41:57
Sarah: And so it was, it was the summer after senior year, right before she turned 18.
42:03
Sarah: She was, she's always, she's kind of an amazing person.
42:08
Sarah: She's managed to always have a job and keep a job.
42:11
Sarah: Like she's always been, like people at her work just adore her, she's a hard worker.
42:15
Sarah: I don't know how she was doing it when she's using that because she was either sick or not, but she made it happen.
42:20
Sarah: Like, so she, she was doing her thing and there was, I think it was the week before she turned.
42:29
Sarah: 18. So while she was in this sort of what is in the invitation to change, there's the phase of like contemplation, you know?
42:39
Sarah: So I knew that she was in that phase because we wouldn't argue about it.
42:43
Sarah: She would say like, mom, I think maybe I'm ready to go to detox but I'm just really scared cause I, I heard it's really awful and I've been through that before, you know?
42:51
Sarah: So we would talk about that.
42:53
Sarah: And I wouldn't get all excited and get in the car, I would just be like, Oh, tell me how you're, you know, how'd you get to that point?
42:58
Sarah: Like, Oh, the restraint.
43:04
Sarah: The restraint.
43:04
Sarah: You have
43:05
Brenda: learned so much.
43:07
Brenda: That's all I can say, is you have learned so much.
43:09
Brenda: Yes.
43:11
Sarah: So, sort of in the, in the background, without her knowing, I was talking with Patty and learning about the NET device and learning also about Isaiah House, which is where, in Kentucky, where the NET device was being used on, in a clinical trial.
43:26
Sarah: Because of Isaiah House's great reputation for success.
43:29
Sarah: So, and, and there was a place out here where she could have gone into detox, like a, I don't know, three or four day detox.
43:37
Sarah: And, you know, once she turned 18, that was the other thing.
43:39
Sarah: If your kid's under 18.
43:41
Sarah: It's one messed up situation after 18.
43:44
Sarah: There's a little bit more resources, but then there's other problems, too So I just felt like okay, I'm gonna have this thing ready to go.
43:52
Sarah: I had the two options we were either gonna go to the detox locally and then try to figure something out or I was gonna try to get her to go to Kentucky and To this program where she would be part of a clinical trial with this device.
44:10
Sarah: It was scary because it was a clinical trial.
44:12
Sarah: So I knew that there was a 50 percent chance she wouldn't get an active device and then have to go through all the horrible detox and withdraw and all that.
44:23
Sarah: But, you know, it was desperate times.
44:26
Sarah: And so.
44:27
Sarah: I remember her coming to me, she was going to turn 18 in a week, and we're sitting on the couch in the living room, and she said, Mom, right after my birthday, like, I want to have my birthday here, I have plans with my friends, but like, I, after that, I want to go, I want to get help, because I'm, she said, I don't want to be doing this anymore, but I can't stop, because the second I go a few hours without it, I'm so sick, and I'm in so much pain, and I can't stop, like, I feel sick.
44:55
Sarah: I was trapped, you know, and I was just like trying to be calm on the outside, but inside I was like Snoopy dancing, you know, like I was like, okay, I said, well, let me think about some options and see what I could find.
45:10
Sarah: I already had them, you know, but
45:11
Brenda: you're like, my back pocket is so full,
45:14
Sarah: right?
45:14
Sarah: It's so full.
45:15
Sarah: I can't even sit straight.
45:16
Sarah: You know?
45:17
Sarah: So yeah, so then I, so then I knew I was going to try to talk to her about Isaiah House.
45:22
Sarah: And I said, well, I think I, you know, a couple of days later she called me from somewhere and we're talking and I said, you know, I think I might've found a place, my, my friend through the stream.
45:31
Sarah: Cause I told the whole time also, I was very open with her about what I was doing to try to help myself and try to help myself understand her.
45:38
Sarah: So she knew that I had this.
45:40
Sarah: community and I had all, you know, she knew.
45:43
Sarah: So I said, my friend in the stream, her daughter had very similar issues to what you're going through and went and had this treatment and she's doing great now.
45:52
Sarah: And she's like, really?
45:53
Sarah: And she said, well, where is it?
45:56
Sarah: And I said, well, It's in Kentucky and we're in California, you know, so she's like, Kentucky, that's really far.
46:04
Brenda: She probably couldn't even place it on a map.
46:07
Brenda: Like, where is Kentucky?
46:08
Brenda: Yeah,
46:08
Sarah: she, she's like, where even is Kentucky?
46:11
Sarah: Yeah.
46:11
Sarah: And I was like, yeah.
46:12
Sarah: And so it was kind of like, I had to sort of very slowly give out the information so she could process each piece because it's also a, uh, Isaiah house is a Christian based.
46:27
Sarah: Program and sometimes those can be not what we would have wanted, like I wanted to make sure it was the the loving kind, not the other kind.
46:37
Brenda: Yes.
46:38
Sarah: And so I had done all that research, you know, I asked Patty about it, you know, we, I, she had reassured me that it was, it was fundamentally about helping people, uh, get better.
46:47
Sarah: And the net device would work if she got the active device.
46:52
Sarah: So I had to kind of explain that to her as well.
46:54
Sarah: Like, this is what we're hoping for.
46:56
Sarah: There's a chance you won't get it, and if you don't, then, then we'll be in the same place that we would be if you were here anyway, which is medical detox and medical, you know, help and rehab.
47:09
Sarah: Like I said, either way, we're, you know, you're going to go through this, hopefully it'll be a little easier.
47:15
Sarah: And this was over the course of several conversations and each time I would give her another little like, and it's, you know, and you have to stay there for this, you know and she would be shocked, but then she'd be like, well, let me think about it.
47:28
Sarah: And then she would come back and say, okay.
47:30
Sarah: And for my kid, that's, that's how it had to be.
47:33
Sarah: Cause she's very headstrong and it's gotta be her decision.
47:36
Sarah: So.
47:37
Sarah: So we took her, uh, she turned 18 at the end of July, the very beginning of August, my husband and I took her out to Kentucky.
47:47
Sarah: We dropped her off none of us had ever been to Kentucky before.
47:51
Sarah: It's a beautiful state, by the way, I've been back many times since.
47:54
Sarah: I love Kentucky now.
47:56
Sarah: They let her call me a couple hours after we dropped her off and she was sobbing and just, I could tell going through withdrawal.
48:02
Sarah: She was Acting very erratic and you know, it was hard to hear and it was hard to, she kept saying, I got to go home.
48:10
Sarah: You got to let me, you got to take me back.
48:11
Sarah: You can't leave me here.
48:12
Sarah: And oh my gosh, it was rough.
48:15
Sarah: But she called me the following day after she had the net device put on for a few hours and said, mom, I think I got an active device because I feel so good.
48:25
Sarah: I, she said, I'm not nauseous.
48:27
Sarah: She said, I just ate breakfast.
48:29
Sarah: I feel great.
48:29
Sarah: I was hungry.
48:31
Sarah: I'm going to go take a nap right now.
48:32
Sarah: I know I'll be able to sleep.
48:33
Sarah: Like, so there were little just little bright spots to keep us going, even though the next call might be, okay, mom, I've been here four days and I feel great.
48:45
Sarah: I really don't want to stay any longer.
48:47
Sarah: And I know the program is 30 days, but I'd really like to come home now.
48:51
Sarah: And so there were, you know, there were lots of hurdles over the next, she did, she did the 30 days in the, the inpatient.
49:02
Sarah: And then at the, kind of at the last minute with my coaxing and the coaxing of a really wonderful counselor, actually it's the counselor who he's in.
49:11
Sarah: The final fix, the movie that talks about the net device, he was one of the people who, who used it.
49:18
Sarah: And he became a, I don't think he works there anymore, but when Sophia was there, he was one of the counselors there and he, he was wonderful.
49:27
Sarah: So he kind of helped her see that maybe not coming home right away after 30 days staying for another 30 in their outpatient program.
49:36
Sarah: And then after that, hey, maybe not come home yet.
49:41
Sarah: Let's move into sober living for a while.
49:43
Sarah: And so it was at that point, it was after 60 days that I went and helped her move into sober living.
49:50
Brenda: Wow.
49:50
Sarah: Oh, and just seeing her, uh, you know, it's night and day difference, uh, to see a person who's.
49:58
Sarah: It's been 60 days off of those drugs, they just look so much better.
50:02
Brenda: Yeah.
50:02
Brenda: It's like, Oh, there's my daughter.
50:04
Sarah: Yeah.
50:04
Sarah: She, yeah.
50:05
Sarah: There's a spark in her eye again.
50:07
Sarah: And I mean, and it was still hard.
50:08
Sarah: She was only, she was barely 18 and she's there in a program with women.
50:12
Sarah: Her roommate in Sober Living was about 65.
50:16
Sarah: You know, so she had grandkids, she had lost everything because of her, I mean, her, these stories that my kid was exposed to were really valuable, I think, because it's kind of like, okay, just remember, that's the path I could be on, or I could choose something else.
50:32
Brenda: It's interesting that you were in some of those partnership meetings with people.
50:37
Brenda: Who are so much further down the path, seeing that and then the parallel mm-hmm. Of her seeing that when she's Yeah.
50:42
Brenda: Yeah.
50:42
Brenda: Seeing like, oh, this is, this is where this goes . Like Right, right.
50:48
Brenda: This is, this is the, the, if I'm lucky.
50:50
Brenda: Yeah.
50:51
Brenda: If I'm lucky.
50:51
Brenda: If I'm lucky, so.
50:53
Brenda: Mm-hmm . It's so incredible that just the span of time.
51:00
Brenda: It wasn't super, it's not like this happened over the course of 10 years.
51:03
Brenda: You know, sometimes you think about some of these stories and it's like, Oh, that's like 10, 15 years.
51:07
Brenda: Like, no, this is, this was
51:09
Sarah: like two years.
51:10
Sarah: The story I just told you, she was there for a total of two years.
51:13
Sarah: So she was there for one year in all the programming.
51:16
Sarah: And then after that first year, we moved her into an apartment.
51:19
Sarah: Cause she had a job, of course, my working kid, she had a job and.
51:23
Sarah: And, but, but had understood it probably wasn't great to come home just yet.
51:27
Sarah: And so she stayed there a solid year by herself working.
51:31
Sarah: She had a couple of really good friends.
51:32
Sarah: And but so when she came back, like we had, you know, the foundation was there.
51:36
Sarah: We didn't have to build it cause we already had built it.
51:39
Sarah: And the honesty around what, what we, what our expectations were and, you know, all of that was already built in.
51:47
Sarah: So I would say that, like, I don't know if you can get to acceptance.
51:53
Sarah: Uh, because someone gives you the advice to do it.
51:56
Sarah: I think kind of you have, you know, it's one of those, you have to, you just have to get to it.
52:00
Sarah: Like, I do wish I could have gotten it through my head, like how serious and how, Oh yeah, this is, this is a very serious drug addiction.
52:09
Sarah: This is an opioid addiction problem that your sweet baby has like that you didn't see coming.
52:16
Sarah: Like if I could have gotten to that understanding faster, maybe I could have.
52:21
Sarah: Moved it along faster, but actually I don't think so because I yeah these things have to happen the way they happen and the person Who's struggling with it is ultimately the one who's going to decide how it goes.
52:32
Brenda: Yes
52:33
Sarah: Yeah,
52:33
Brenda: you you create those conditions for change Mm hmm, and I love how you said that you got to the point where you could tell her openly I know what's going on.
52:43
Brenda: I'm here for you when you're ready.
52:45
Brenda: And I'm sure that that was a huge relief to her because that's it sounds like that's when you guys started having more of Those contemplative conversations.
52:53
Brenda: So I think sometimes we forget that we really know we cannot force them to change But what we can do is we can create the conditions where it's much more Likely that they will and it's much less It's embarrassing for them, much less painful for them to have to, I have to go to my mom and tell, you know, we can, we can make it easier for them to do that.
53:17
Sarah: Just the shame around all of it is so big.
53:21
Sarah: And what I realized she said something to me early on about mom, you know, I already feel so bad about this.
53:29
Sarah: I feel like crap for what I'm doing to myself and what I'm doing to you and dad and my brother and.
53:35
Sarah: So when you get mad at me, it just makes me feel that much worse, you know, it doesn't help when you yell at me and, and I realized like, of course it doesn't.
53:43
Sarah: And I, I, I really did realize, yeah, that there is so much stigma and shame around it.
53:49
Sarah: So if, if at least the people closest to her can reassure her that we are not judging her, we are helping her, loving her.
53:58
Sarah: We're here to help when she's ready, but also like still loving her, even if she's not ready.
54:04
Sarah: And that is so hard because, again, they are really hard to live with.
54:07
Sarah: I mean, it is something had to give, for sure.
54:10
Sarah: I don't know how long we could have gone on, you know.
54:12
Sarah: I was really glad she decided to get help when she did because it's just no way to live with that in your
54:19
Brenda: house.
54:19
Brenda: No.
54:19
Brenda: Yeah.
54:20
Brenda: It's not a sustainable, it's not a sustainable situation.
54:25
Brenda: Yeah.
54:25
Brenda: I'm wondering how You are different today than you were when you started this journey.
54:31
Brenda: What's different about Sarah?
54:32
Brenda: I'm so much
54:33
Sarah: older.
54:34
Brenda: Well,
54:35
Sarah: yes, there
54:35
Brenda: is that.
54:36
Sarah: I'm like 79.
54:38
Brenda: It's like dog years, like every year with a child struggling with substances is seven.
54:46
Sarah: It's cliche to say, but, uh, I really do feel like I'm such a badass and in some ways, like, I mean, I, so concurrent with this, I had, I developed cancer, as you know, had to have cancer treatment while she was in Kentucky during, so thank God she was, like, I wasn't worrying about her anymore.
55:09
Sarah: It's like the moment I, kind of the moment I realized I could.
55:12
Sarah: She was going to be okay, is when I got this diagnosis, and I'm like, oh, well that's good, because now I need to focus on me, you know.
55:20
Sarah: So, but having gone through those two things, and then a handful of other things I know that life is just like this, you know.
55:26
Sarah: It's going to keep giving us challenges, but I, I also know just deep down in my heart that I can handle it.
55:37
Sarah: Yeah.
55:38
Sarah: That, I mean, I'm not, Universe, I'm not asking for any more challenges.
55:41
Sarah: Right.
55:43
Sarah: Please do not listen to that and take it the wrong way, but I, I just know that I can handle it.
55:49
Sarah: Yeah.
55:50
Sarah: So I'm, I'm different in that way.
55:51
Sarah: And I'm also.
55:53
Sarah: I mean, I've always been a pretty laid back person, but I do feel like I, when it comes to just being a human and being with other people, I just really know that just being kind to people and caring about other people is all that matters.
56:10
Brenda: Well I thank you so much for being willing to share your story.
56:16
Brenda: I know sometimes it's, you know, it's not always fun to go back and relive those things.
56:20
Brenda: So I do appreciate that and we're so glad that your cancer is better.
56:26
Brenda: Not gone, right?
56:27
Brenda: But better.
56:28
Brenda: It's
56:28
Sarah: probably going to be there, but it's treatable.
56:29
Sarah: So
56:30
Brenda: yeah.
56:31
Brenda: So, and I got to give you hugs at our last retreat, which was amazing and the retreat before.
56:36
Brenda: So yeah, I think that really.
56:38
Brenda: It says, you know, when people come on our retreats, it's, it says to me, she is willing to do the work because, you know, it sounds like, Oh, it'd be fun going on a retreat.
56:49
Brenda: It's actually, it takes a lot to leave your family, to be vulnerable around people, especially when you're in
56:55
Sarah: the middle of it, because you're worried about what's going to happen when you are gone.
57:00
Brenda: Absolutely.
57:01
Brenda: And you, maybe you know these people from Zoom, right?
57:04
Brenda: But you don't, like, we've never seen each other's legs.
57:07
Brenda: Right.
57:07
Brenda: Yeah.
57:08
Brenda: We're, we're on a, like, waist up basis.
57:10
Brenda: Is she six feet tall or five feet tall?
57:11
Brenda: Yeah.
57:12
Brenda: Exactly.
57:13
Brenda: So, it is, it is not the easiest thing to do, but, but when I see people like you come on retreat, it just says she is all, She is doing everything she can, including taking care of herself.
57:29
Sarah: That, and that's one of the hardest things.
57:32
Sarah: It is.
57:33
Sarah: That self care part was a big, big hurdle for me because it's, again, it seems so counterintuitive.
57:40
Sarah: Why on earth would I want to take any time for myself away from this situation?
57:46
Sarah: Because I'm so needed in this situation, you know, and it's like, oh, because you actually have to be functioning.
57:53
Sarah: That's why yes
57:55
Brenda: You are an important part of this I always say you've heard me say it that you know taking care of ourselves is part of our kids treatment program Like that is a big part of their treatment plan is mom's got to be healthy.
58:07
Brenda: Dad's got to be healthy Otherwise, what are you gonna do?
58:10
Brenda: Right when she when she comes and says mom, I want to go to Kentucky and if you're You know, non functioning in bed in a coma.
58:18
Sarah: She wouldn't have gotten to that point if I hadn't had done the work.
58:22
Sarah: No.
58:22
Sarah: It's, it's really, I really believe that.
58:24
Sarah: I mean, she would, eventually she probably would have figured something out, but who knows what it would have looked like and where we'd be right now.
58:32
Brenda: Well thank you.
58:32
Brenda: I appreciate it.
58:33
Brenda: And I,
58:35
Sarah: I want the listeners to know too, just how helpful the stream has been in this whole journey.
58:41
Sarah: And.
58:42
Sarah: And just how much I'm so happy to be, I don't know if I'm on the other side completely, but I'm, you know, I'm in a much better place.
58:49
Sarah: We are in a much better place than we were before.
58:51
Sarah: So to be able to try to, I don't know, just offer a, uh, A shoulder or an ear for someone who's where I might have been a couple years ago is a real gift.
59:02
Brenda: Okay, my friend, if you want the transcript or show notes and resources from this episode, just go to hopestreamcommunity.
59:08
Brenda: org and click on podcast.
59:10
Brenda: That'll take you to all things podcast related, including the full library.
59:16
Brenda: a search feature if you're looking for something specific, and also playlists where we have grouped together episodes on things like craft, recovery stories, solo episodes, siblings.
59:28
Brenda: We even have a start here playlist if you're new.
59:31
Brenda: Those are super helpful, so be sure to check them out.
59:35
Brenda: I also want to let you know about a free ebook you can download if you're feeling anxious and confused about how to approach your child's substance misuse.
59:43
Brenda: The book is called Worried.
59:45
Brenda: Sick, a compassionate guide for parents of teens and young adults misusing drugs and alcohol.
59:50
Brenda: And it'll introduce you to ways that you can rebuild connection and relationship with your child versus distance and let them hit rock bottom.
59:59
Brenda: It is a game changer.
1:00:01
Brenda: It's totally free.
1:00:02
Brenda: Just go to HopeStreamCommunity.
1:00:04
Brenda: org forward slash worried.
1:00:06
Brenda: To download that.
1:00:08
Brenda: You are amazing.
1:00:10
Brenda: You are such a rock star, a super elite level parent.
1:00:14
Brenda: It's truly an honor to be here with you.
1:00:16
Brenda: And please know you are not doing this alone.
1:00:19
Brenda: You've got this tribe and you will be okay.
1:00:23
Brenda: You'll make it through this season and when you do you are going to be stronger and more resilient than you ever thought possible.
1:00:31
Brenda: I'm sending all my love and light and I'll meet you right back here next week.