Latest / Respark Your Life / EP350: Jason Heffler - Turning Challenges Into Superpowers

Transcript

EP350: Jason Heffler - Turning Challenges Into Superpowers · Respark Your Life

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Stutters, they constantly ache for a deeper connection.
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Words are just, they're caught.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: It's like a dam that's in your throat.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: It can feel like a profound weakness.
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Hopefully, the people on the other end of that conversation
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: have some empathy.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: Hello, this is Raymond Aaron, New York Times Top 10
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: bestselling author, bringing you Respark Your Life podcast,
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: the world's premier podcast to ignite the fire to allow you to live life on your own terms.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: Every single Thursday, I bring you a multi-millionaire world famous celebrity
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: to teach you about the most fascinating ways in order to live a far better life.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: Every single Thursday, you just need to subscribe by hitting the subscribe button.
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: I'll see you every Thursday to re-spark your life.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: Yes, this is Raymond Aaron with another episode of Respark Your Life. And you know me,
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: I have lots of world-famous friends, but I don't bring them on the show. I know you like to hear
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: them because you know them and they're world-famous, but you know where you get the greatest wisdom
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: is stealth wisdom. I ferret out people you would never ever learn about and I bring their wisdom
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: to you. And today I've done that with Jason Heffler. He's an author whose stories help
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: young readers overcome speech disorders and fears around speaking. Drawing from his own
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: childhood experiences growing up with and getting bullied for a stutter, he writes uplifting tales
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: that inspire kids with speech hurdles to build confidence and self-acceptance. And you know what?
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: I get inundated with people saying, "I've had this horrible thing happen to me and now I'm wonderful."
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: And they're great stories, each of them, but I can't accept all of them. But when I saw yours,
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: I said, "Man, if you help kids, let me in." So that's why I chose you. And I hope you heard
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: my introduction, because that's a lot to live up to.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: So tell us, do you still have a stutter?
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: Were you born with it?
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: Did you have an accident that started it?
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: Tell me about the stutter.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks for that kind intro.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I still have it.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: You can clearly hear it.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: I definitely-- I wasn't born with it.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: It started when I was about six or seven.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: And there wasn't any onset,
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: like I can't point to some kind of traumatic
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: incident that caused it.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: I don't think most stutterers can.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: It's just something that happens.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: It's actually a neurological condition.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: A lot of people think that it's,
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: physical, like a vocal cord thing, but it's not.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: It's actually, it emanates from some kind
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: of neurological condition that starts probably
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: when you're a baby.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: - Well, let me first compliment you
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: that your stutter is very mild and very acceptable.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: It's not like a terrible accent that I can't understand.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: And so bless you and congratulations for overcoming it.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: Was it hard work to overcome it?
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: Tell me.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: - Yeah, it was.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: It was a lot.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: It was more personal work though.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: Like I went to a ton of speech therapy when I was a kid,
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: but that really didn't do much.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: 100% fluency isn't attainable
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: For even those who don't have daughters
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: So the work I did was really more mental
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: Basically
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: forcing myself into
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: situations where I had to
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: Public speak or I had to meet new friends like really
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: forcing myself to
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: undergo that change and kind of overcome it was huge,
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: but it took a long time.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: I would say probably until when I was like 26.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: I'm 34 now.
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: So it took a long time to really build that confidence
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: and it was rough.
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: - It took you 20 years of tough work.
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: - Yeah, I mean, you really have to get in the weeds.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: The professionals didn't help you,
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: but your own courage to step out of your comfort zone,
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: making new friends, speaking in public,
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: that's what did it for you.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: - Wow.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: - Yeah, yeah.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: And you really have to, I mean, it's,
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: 'cause stutterers, they, you know,
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: they constantly ache for like a deeper connection
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: because the words are just, they're caught.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: It's like a dam that's in your throat.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: So when they try to insert themselves
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: into situations like everyone else has,
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: it can feel like a profound weakness.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: So you really just have to fight through it
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: and hopefully the people on the other end
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: of that conversation have some empathy.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: - Right, now kids don't.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: Kids don't. - Kids don't have everything.
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: They bully, they're ruthless.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: - Right?
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: If you have a minority skin color,
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: or a minority weight, like too thin or too fat,
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: or you're too tall or too short,
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: or you stutter, or you've got a big pimple on your nose,
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: or anything, they will zone in on that.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: And not 'cause they're bad.
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: Kids aren't bad.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: They just, they just don't get it.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: They just don't know how much it hurts.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: But the friends you have now are empathetic.
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: They will pause and listen for the extra three quarters
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: of a second that it takes for you to get your sentence out.
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: - Yeah, and that's crucial.
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, kids, like the cruelty comes from a place of,
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: almost like it comes from, I wanna say,
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: Ignorance.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: It's not malicious.
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: They're just ignorant.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: When you finally have those people in your life who listen and they're patient and they
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: don't finish your sentences before you, it adds another layer to your own self-assurance
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: that you're not going to be able to do anything.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: I think that's a really good point
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: It's just so clutch.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: Hold on.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: You just hit on a topic.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: Are you saying to me that when a well intentioned person finishes the sentence
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: for you, that that isn't a good thing?
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: That isn't nice.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: Tell me, tell me.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: Cause we, you, you gotta let us get our words out.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: Cause, cause, cause otherwise it just, it's Stokes pity.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: - Ah.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: - Yeah.
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: We get like, and we'll never grow
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: if you're just constantly finishing our sentences.
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: And let me preface that,
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: like there are stutters where it's severe,
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: where they can't even get a word out.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: So I, putting myself in the shoes
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: of someone talking to that person,
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: I would understand, you know,
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: the need to feel like they have to finish the sentences.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: So me having a relatively mild one,
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: it's much easier to say that.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: But in my own personal experience,
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: I don't like when people finish my sentences.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: It's like, just let me do it.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: Got it.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean?
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: Like, I can do it.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: You were saying that kids were ignorant,
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: but in this case, I was ignorant.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: I thought if I did that, I'd be being helpful.
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: So I'm glad that you taught me that.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: - Now, another thing I've noticed is,
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: you did damn good when we started.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: Now we're a few minutes in,
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: and your stuttering got a little bit worse.
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: Is that because your throat is getting tired,
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: or your brain is getting tired,
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: or tell me what's happening.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: - I would say my brain, yeah.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: So the more you talk,
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: Basically, starters all have certain syllables or words
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: that they always block on.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: It's like no matter what.
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: So when your brain is trying to process these things
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: in real time, it can become overwhelming.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: And there's all kinds of like coping mechanisms
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: that we use mid sentence to try to avoid
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: the words coming out wrong.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: So when you're trying to do that, it can often,
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: you know, it can get worse.
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: - Oh, so there's a certain set of words
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: that you already know, that you have difficulty with.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: And in the first part of the sentence,
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: when you say, "Uh-oh, that word's gonna come up,"
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: you change stream and you can say it a different way,
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: avoiding that word.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: - Exactly, exactly.
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: but that causes even more effort neurologically.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: So it isn't a full solution, but it's very interesting.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: - Wow.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: - Nail, you hit the nail on the head.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: That's exactly like, and these processes like non-stutterers,
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: they, it just comes naturally and they can,
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: they can meet new friends and they can meet love interests
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: and they can do job interviews and it's no big deal,
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: but we have to constantly think about this stuff
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: every time we open our mouths.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: So it's a plight that not a lot of people really understand.
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: - Ah, and so you don't want me to be sorry for you.
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: What do you want?
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: What emotion should I have?
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: - That's a good question.
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't want pity.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: I just want to be treated like an equal.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's not like,
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: just like any other misfit out there.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: It's not their fault.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: They just want to be,
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: they want to fit in and they want to have a normal life
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: filled with all the other possibilities
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: that everyone else has.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: - Well, I'll tell you what,
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: if we just look at North America,
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: there's about 400 million people and you made it to the top of the 400 million because
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: thank you I don't interview everybody when I read your bio I said damn it I want that guy
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: and so you're you you are in the elite for me so I that means a lot I appreciate that I don't
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: think of you as normal. I think of you as amazing and interesting and you have already changed my
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: thinking about stutterers and stuttering in several ways so far in our conversation. And I'm really
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: grateful and certainly my many subscribers who are paying attention, maybe they're not paying
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: attention, maybe they're getting a haircut or maybe they're driving and not paying much attention,
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: but hopefully they're paying attention and hopefully they've learned similar lessons to
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: what I've learned. So now you've taken it outside of yourself and you want to help other children
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: and how are you doing that? Basically it all starts with representation.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: the children's book I wrote.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: When kids with speech impediments,
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: when they see a character like the one in my book
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: who stutters but still achieves great things,
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: you know, it builds their courage.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: So representation is huge.
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: And then basically
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: it's also a resource for parents
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: because a lot of parents,
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: you know, they have a child with a speech condition and they've never dealt with that
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: before. So they don't know how, like, they don't know the nuances of, of how to
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: make the child comfortable with it. So there's a lot of bits and tips in there to, you know,
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: to help parents. Please explain something, Jason. You said for the child, there's representation.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: I don't know what that means.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: Representation, like they can, through this character, they can see themselves, you know,
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: they can see themselves being represented as a stutterer in the world.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: In a real book.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: So if it's in a real book, it's even more special than ordinary.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean a lot of these kids, they think that they're alone.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: Like 1% of the country stutters, believe it or not, and that seems like a high number,
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: but you really don't meet them out in the world.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: So if you're a kid and you have a stutter and you read a book like this, you think,
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: oh, like, you know, they must be more out there than I thought.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: Well, if there's about 400 million people in North America, never mind all the rest
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: of the world, but just let's think of North America for a minute.
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: That means 4 million stutterers in North America?
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: If there's 8 billion people on the whole planet, that means, I can't do the math, 80 million
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: stutterers?
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: Goodness gracious.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: - Yeah, and you would be surprised, Raymond,
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: at who the famous people that have stutters.
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: Darth Vader, James Earl Jones had a major stutter
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: and it disappeared when he went into that character.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: You got Ed Sheeran.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: - Really?
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: - You got
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: the actress.
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: - Wow.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: - Yeah, they were all vocal advocates
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: about stuttering therapy.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: - Now, let me ask you a question.
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: My mother at age 83 was the country's oldest
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: active fitness instructors.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: She led a life.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: And then she had a stroke, a left brain stroke.
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: It nuked her speech and her ability to move.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: So she was confined to a wheelchair for three years.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: And during that three years, we had to put her in a home
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: because my sister and I aren't nurses.
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: We didn't know how to lift her up
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: and take her to the toilet, take her to the shower.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: We didn't know what to do.
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: So we put her in a home and we visited her.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: And one day we got a panic call
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: from the woman who ran the facility.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: She said, "Raymond, Susan's my younger sister.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: Come here immediately."
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, fearing the worst, we raced over there
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: and my mother was singing.
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: She couldn't speak, but she could sing
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: 'cause speech is left brain and singing is right brain.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: - Yep.
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: - But we could never communicate with her using singing.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: Like we tried to sing questions to her,
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: Never really worked.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: She could only sing old childhood songs
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: like "She'll Be Coming Around the Mountain"
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: things like that.
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: Are you saying that singers who stutter when they speak
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: don't stutter when they sing?
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: 'Cause it's a different part of the brain, is that right?
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: - Absolutely, yeah.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: And I can actually vouch myself.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: My nine to five job, I'm in the music industry.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: And so I run EDM.com.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: It's the world's largest dance music publication.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: And prior to that role, I was a DJ
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: and I spun at a lot of major festivals and clubs.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: And when I would hop on the microphone during my set,
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't stutter at all.
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: So it's very real.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: And I'm not a doctor, so I can't speak
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: to the neurological pathways and all of that.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: But it definitely is true that if you're on stage
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: and you're singing, it goes away.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: - Wow.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: - Yeah.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: Mind-blowing stuff.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: - Really?
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: - And it's a shame because you can't just go
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: through life singing.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: (laughing)
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: When you're like at Starbucks
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: and you're trying to order a coffee,
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: like you can't just sing, you know what I mean?
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: I wish you could, but you would be,
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: That would be a little strange.
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: - Well, do you know, I'm a professional speaker
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: and when I speak, my body goes away.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: Be on stage for hours, I never have to pee,
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: I never have to go to the toilet,
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: any aches and pains in my body don't exist
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: until I consciously think of them.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: Yes, one time I was tussling with one of my daughters
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: and I turned my shoulder the wrong way
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: and pain just shot through my body.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: And so my wife raced to a drugstore and bought a sling.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: So I have this beautiful dark blue suit
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: and the sling is like beige.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: So there was this giant beige triangle
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: in front of my blue suit.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: And I said, no, I can't do that.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: So I gingerly took off the sling
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: and put my hand in my pocket
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: so that my shoulder wouldn't budge.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: And 99% of the way through my speech,
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: I said, "Gee, I wonder how my shoulder's doing."
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: And my arms were up in the air,
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: like they were flying around.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: I was just using my arms like crazy
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: and no pain until I thought about it,
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: then the pain shot through my body.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: - So you just have a stream of consciousness kind of thing
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: just forget what's going on from neck down.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: - Yes, it's not a strong,
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: I forget, I forget sounds like I have
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: some conscious control of it.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: It just vanishes.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: It does it on its own.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: - Did you conjure that?
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: Did you learn that or were you just born that way?
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: - No, I noticed it when I was--
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: - Wow, I envy that.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: I'd start a speech at 9 in the morning,
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: and at noon, the audience would rebel.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: They would mutiny.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: And they'd say, "Enough!
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: "We have to go to the toilet."
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: And I said, "Well, I don't want to just keep going
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: "right through to midnight."
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: - That is unbelievable.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever heard that.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: It's kind of like a,
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: it's kind of like a,
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: like the runner's high.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: How like runners, they run a certain amount,
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: And then it's just, they can go for as long as they want
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: and not feel anything.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: - Yes.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: - That's amazing.
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: - Yeah, but you just said a similar thing
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: that when you're excited and you're eager
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: and you're a DJ and you're singing,
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: you're just in your element and there's no stutter.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: - Yeah, it might just be a thing where you forget
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: about your surroundings.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: Like you're just so locked in
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: and the stutter becomes secondary
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: in your list of concerns, right?
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: Like your main focus is not screwing up
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: your next beat match as a DJ.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: And speaking is no longer an issue in that moment.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: And it's a bummer that you can't,
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: there's a fan of like a brilliant book
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: by this guy, John Hendrickson.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: He writes for the New Yorker.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: He wrote this amazing book about his life stuttering.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: And he basically says, you know,
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: it's a shame we can't carry these momentary
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: the threads of speaking into our daily lives.
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: - Oh.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: - Yeah.
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: - What he's talking about is like,
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: when you're in the groove, you don't stutter,
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: everything is perfect.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: And he says, "Damn it, why doesn't that go on forever?"
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: - Exactly.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: We find these super rare golden threads of continuity,
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: and there's no way we can ever duplicate them
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: en masse in the real world.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: - Yes.
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: Yes, I've run quite a few marathons.
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: And in a marathon, there's a thing called the talk test.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: You have to be able to run at a certain speed
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: where you can still talk.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: If you go any faster than that and start panting,
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: you'll get out of breath
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: and you won't be able to run any longer.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: So you have to talk.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: And so strangely, running a marathon
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: at the best of my ability, the fastest I can go,
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: I can still talk to somebody beside me
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: and chat away and the miles fly by.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: Like I say, "Oh, look, there's the mile 20 marker."
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: And my partner will say, "The last I remember is mile 10.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: "What happened to the last 10 miles?"
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: - Wow.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: - They just go by.
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: - Is it a distraction thing?
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: Like, are you distracting yourself from the mile markers?
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: - Yeah.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: Every marathoner has to distract
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: 'cause there's too many steps.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: There's just too much.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: - Yeah.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: - Yeah.
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: Anyways.
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: - It's like being in class and looking at the clock
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: every second ticking by and it makes it longer.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: - Exactly.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: - Yeah.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: - So tell me more about your book.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: You said that you have a character in your book
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: that represents the stutterer.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: So I'm interested, did you choose a bear?
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: Did you choose an armadillo?
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: - So I chose a chameleon.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, her name is Cadence.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: So the reason I chose that is because she basically, when she, when she, when, when
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: her speech condition comes out, she gets embarrassed and she stumbles over her
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: tongue and she camouflages into the forest because she's embarrassed.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: So the tongue, you know, it's a, it's a motif.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: It's, it's her stumbling over her own words.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: - And your book is called Tongue Tied.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: - It's called Tongue Tied, yes.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: - Wow.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: - So basically--
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: - The name that you've chosen for her, Cadence.
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: Cadence means a flow of words, a mellifluous flow of words.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: - Exactly, yes.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: - Very sweet.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: - Yeah, good word by the way, mellifluous.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so only is she able to overcome it
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: by these encounters with these other characters.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: She meets this cricket friend who becomes her best friend
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: who kind of encourages her to open up.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: And there's also this mean frog bully
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: who she has to kind of confront.
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: And I don't want to give too much away,
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: But at the end, the message is that people
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: with speech conditions can still live that life filled
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: with all the other possibilities as others,
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: and they can still do amazing things.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: Jason, not only is it very interesting
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: that you chose Cadence as the name of the representative,
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: but also to name a frog bully is very funny.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: It's very clever.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: Lots of clever ideas in your book.
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: - Thank you.
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: I'll send you a copy.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: I would love to hear your feedback on it.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: - Oh my gosh.
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: That would be delicious.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: So, dear subscriber,
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: maybe you didn't intend to learn
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: about taking care of stutterers,
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: or the fact that you think nobody stutters
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: 'cause they hide, unfortunately,
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: so you don't experience it.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: It's not that they're there,
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: They just hide, unfortunately.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: But if you know anyone who's a stutterer,
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: or the parent of a stutterer, or heck,
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: if you just want to learn about it,
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: Tongue Tied by Jason Heffler, it's of course on Amazon.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: Now, Jason, what's your favorite quote?
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: That's how I'd love to end this session.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: - Oh, that's a good question.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: Ah, there's so many.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: Let me, I've got a ton on my memo pad on my phone.
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: Let me just pick one for you.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: - Okay, go ahead.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: - Okay.
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: I'll just pretend you're stuttering and I'll sit here.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: All right. Um, my favorite quote is sometimes you will never know
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: the value of a moment until it becomes a memory.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: Oh, and how is that important to you? What does that mean to you?
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: It means that basically, you just have to try to
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: like live, it's such a cliche, but live, like try to realize that every moment in your life
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: is meaningful and don't wait until it becomes a memory to appreciate it.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: Cherish the moment at the moment.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: Yes, it's a very artful, concise, I thought,
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: poetic way to describe that.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: And it reminds me of my favorite Steve Jobs quote.
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: He said, "You can't connect the dots looking forward."
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: Yes, that's a--
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: You don't know what that moment means.
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: That's a fantastic quote.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: Maybe the moment will disappear, and you'll never
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: remember it again.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: or maybe it'll be a major turning point in your life.
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: - Yep.
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: - You have to look back and what you're saying is,
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: don't look back, cherish it in the moment.
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: - Exactly, don't wait until it becomes a memory
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: 'cause then you might be old and forgetful.
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: - Yes, you might have lost your chance.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: Well, thank you, Jason.
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: What fascinating, what an unexpectedly fascinating interview.
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: you. Wow, I sure hope you enjoyed that fascinating episode. Please make sure you subscribe and please
• 29:28
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• 29:33
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• 29:40
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• 29:46
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• 29:51
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• 30:14
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