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Tom Clancy's Rules Of Engagement From Author Ward Larsen · Arroe Collins Like It's Live

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  Speaker 1: The podcast network is called ero dot Net a r
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  Speaker 1: r oe dot net. It's twenty different podcasts to choose from.
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  Speaker 1: ero dot net a r r oe dot net. Enjoy
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  Speaker 1: that exploration. Hello and good morning everybody.
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  Speaker 2: Hey it sword l Lord.
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  Speaker 1: How are you doing today, mister Ward?
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  Speaker 2: Oh good, how are you?
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  Speaker 1: Very excited to share a conversation with you? Because I
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  Speaker 1: love it when a new Tom Clancy book comes right
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  Speaker 1: before summer, because I know that the community of Tom
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  Speaker 1: Clancy fans and Jack Ryan are going to just expand
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  Speaker 1: even more. It has been so much fun watching this
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  Speaker 1: group of readers just get bigger and bigger and bigger.
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  Speaker 1: And you're part did this, dude?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exciting, It really is.
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  Speaker 1: It's an honored well the numbers that I'm seeing lately,
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  Speaker 1: In fact, I see this, but because I talk with him,
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  Speaker 1: I'm seeing that a lot of these women are going
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  Speaker 1: after Jack Ryan. They're loving this guy, his character are
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  Speaker 1: you feeling the same thing.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's funny because there's a TV show
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  Speaker 2: going on right now, but it has no relationship to
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  Speaker 2: the books. But yeah, I mean, this character has been
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  Speaker 2: going on for forty years now, and you know, people
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  Speaker 2: just can't get enough of it. He just clicked, you know,
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  Speaker 2: and everybody's mindset and here we are. Yeah, it's sounds
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  Speaker 2: like crazy.
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  Speaker 1: The name of the new book is Rules of Engagement,
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  Speaker 1: and in reading the book, I actually because this is
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  Speaker 1: just the type of reader I am. I like looking
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  Speaker 1: up words. I'm a dictionary fanatic. Have the rules of
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  Speaker 1: engagement changed over the past, let's say, five to ten
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  Speaker 1: years of Tom Clancy books.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know some military term rules of engagement,
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  Speaker 2: and it's very it's used throughout the services, but it
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  Speaker 2: kind of is a guidance and it's very specific to
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  Speaker 2: certain even individual attacks. You know, we'll have a rule
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  Speaker 2: of engagement of how you go about, you know, attacking
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  Speaker 2: a certain target, what criteria has to meet to launch
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  Speaker 2: weapons or whatever. So it's a very broad based, widespread term.
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  Speaker 2: But I think it fits really well with this book
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  Speaker 2: and with the series in general. And so yeah, I
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  Speaker 2: mean when I was in the military. We talked about
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  Speaker 2: rules of engagement all the time every time we flew.
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  Speaker 2: Just in training, we have what are called rules of
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  Speaker 2: engagement for just our training sorties in terms of you know,
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  Speaker 2: how we flew and when we kind of knocked off
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  Speaker 2: any kind of area type of combats. So there was
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  Speaker 2: a lot to it and it's a very common term
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  Speaker 2: in a military.
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  Speaker 1: Well in your paragraphs, you can feel that you have
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  Speaker 1: lived something in what's going on in this story, because
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  Speaker 1: I mean it's one of those things where anybody can
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  Speaker 1: go to chat GPT and have that thing give you
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  Speaker 1: its data information. But man, I feel it. I feel
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  Speaker 1: it inside this book to where you still give us
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  Speaker 1: an authentic vibration.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think my military service really helped me here.
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  Speaker 2: And you know, the guys who wrote the books before me,
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  Speaker 2: the three books, Andrews and Wilson, really good guys. They
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  Speaker 2: are both Navy guys, and you kind of got that
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  Speaker 2: same vibe from them and all the Navy work, all
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  Speaker 2: the ships and the missile battles and things like that.
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  Speaker 2: So just for something different, because of my background, I
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  Speaker 2: wanted to take it to the you know, the aviation level,
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  Speaker 2: in particularly the military aviation. So I really felt like
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  Speaker 2: I had, you know, a grip on that and just
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  Speaker 2: from you know, my experiences, and also I still have friends.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, I've been out for a while, but I
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  Speaker 2: still have friends who were pretty much active on ACUAD.
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  Speaker 2: You're in the reserves, So I kind of updated some
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  Speaker 2: things and had people look over to make sure I
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  Speaker 2: got it right. But yeah, it was. We haven't done
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  Speaker 2: a real aviation center book before in this series. I
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  Speaker 2: don't think Mark Cameron. He was more of a like
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  Speaker 2: a law enforcement kind of guy, so I kind of
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  Speaker 2: put that spin on things. But I think by getting
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  Speaker 2: different writers like this, with different you know, military and
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  Speaker 2: law enforce backgrounds, you get some neat perspectives.
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  Speaker 1: You know. I'm so glad that you brought up the
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  Speaker 1: aviation in this book, and the reason why is because
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  Speaker 1: Charlotte now has an aviation museum, and all the way
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  Speaker 1: through this dang book, I keep telling my wife, he
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  Speaker 1: needs to get this book at that aviation museum. He
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  Speaker 1: needs to get this book there. He needs because people
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  Speaker 1: that are going there understand the language. They've either lived
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  Speaker 1: it or somebody in their life has lived it.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, it's uh, there's definitely a community out there
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  Speaker 2: in aviation community, and hopefully I'll kind of bring some
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  Speaker 2: of them into the Clancy you know books again that
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  Speaker 2: maybe weren't there originally. And Clancy was very good about
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  Speaker 2: the military stuff. He really when I read the talk
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  Speaker 2: for Red October and the Red Storm Rising after that,
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  Speaker 2: I was really stunned by how he had never been
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  Speaker 2: in the military, but he had not just the technology
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  Speaker 2: and the the actual aircraft and vehicles down, but he
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  Speaker 2: had just the interactions between the service members. And that's
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  Speaker 2: really hard to do and pull off. In this one,
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  Speaker 2: I've never been in the Navy, but I have some
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  Speaker 2: Navy scenes in there this book, and I made sure
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  Speaker 2: I cross check, you know, some people who had been
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  Speaker 2: in the service, just to make sure that you know,
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  Speaker 2: just the talking between the service members sounded right. That
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  Speaker 2: passed the smell test. So yeah, that really does. But
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  Speaker 2: Clancy was able to do it without ever being in
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  Speaker 2: So you must have asked enough somewhere because it was
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  Speaker 2: really dead on the stuff that he put out there.
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  Speaker 1: Well, my dad has always said that Tom Clancy he
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  Speaker 1: can see everybody who has served in the military. He knows,
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  Speaker 1: he knows because he writes about it. So therefore it
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  Speaker 1: makes those that are reading the book, go, I'm not alone.
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  Speaker 1: I know, I'm going to see what Jack Ryan's going
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  Speaker 1: to do this time, because we either know what Jack
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  Speaker 1: Ryan or we want to be Jack Ryan.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And there's a lot of people in the
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  Speaker 2: military to do read these books, so you kind of
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  Speaker 2: have to get it right, you know, you have to
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  Speaker 2: be you have to have those details down.
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  Speaker 1: Please do not move. We've got more with Ward Larsen
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  Speaker 1: coming up next, Tom Clancy's Rules of Engagement. We are
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  Speaker 1: back with author Ward Larsen. When the military does, you know,
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  Speaker 1: because they read the books and things, have they ever
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  Speaker 1: asked you to come in and take on the persona
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  Speaker 1: of a Jack Ryan and give us a lecture of
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  Speaker 1: motivation what to look forth through ways of not only leadership,
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  Speaker 1: but basically being somebody who says, hey, look we can
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  Speaker 1: make it through that wall, we can make it up
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  Speaker 1: that mountain. If Jack Ryan can do it, you could
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  Speaker 1: do it.
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  Speaker 2: Not yet, you know, right now, I'm just doing this
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  Speaker 2: one Jack Ryan book. So I think I know Clancy
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  Speaker 2: did that because he, you know, did it for so long,
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  Speaker 2: and he did a lot of speeches at war colleges
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  Speaker 2: and things like that, so he really got that reputation.
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  Speaker 2: You know, my books I write, you know, military spy
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  Speaker 2: thrillers anyway, outside this I have been for many years.
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  Speaker 2: But no, I haven't had any direct invitations, but you know,
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  Speaker 2: I definitely be willing to do it. I really like
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  Speaker 2: engaging with you know, our military community, military people, veterans groups.
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  Speaker 2: It's a really great bunch of people.
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  Speaker 1: Well there are a lot of those groups right now
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  Speaker 1: on Zoom. Oh my goodness sakes. And I'm shocked if
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  Speaker 1: you haven't been invited to him yet. But I love
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  Speaker 1: it that that all these men and women who have
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  Speaker 1: served this nation are they're having their conversations, They're bringing
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  Speaker 1: in the authors and everybody with experience, and it's and
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  Speaker 1: I always look at it as being it's because of
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  Speaker 1: the authors of Tom Clancy, because you make it like
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  Speaker 1: they are real people who just happened to have this
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  Speaker 1: job of being Jack Ryan.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, you know, Tom Clancy started writing you know,
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  Speaker 2: the Hump about October came out right at the height
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  Speaker 2: of the of the Reagan Revolution in the military, because
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  Speaker 2: you know, during the seventies, our military kind of withered
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  Speaker 2: away after Vietnam, and then Reagan kind of brought it
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  Speaker 2: back and you know, spent a lot of money upgrading
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  Speaker 2: our military and eventually we just outspent the Soviets and
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  Speaker 2: won the Cold War that way. But you know that
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  Speaker 2: was when the you know, the military really got respect back,
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  Speaker 2: I think in the community, and people realized, like, you
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  Speaker 2: know these you know, you say what you want about
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  Speaker 2: any particular conflict, the guys who are out there fighting
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  Speaker 2: it and girls who are out there fighting it are
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  Speaker 2: there for the right reasons and you know, putting their
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  Speaker 2: lives on the line for some very you know, high principles.
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  Speaker 1: See, I would I would love to be a fly
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  Speaker 1: on the wall and watch readers read the book. And
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  Speaker 1: the reason why is because they're not speaking, they're making sounds.
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  Speaker 1: I mean when you read the part about the you know,
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  Speaker 1: sixteen people were supposed to be on board, but there's
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  Speaker 1: only fifteen. I can just hear that reader going huh.
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  Speaker 1: And then because right away they're little intuition inside their
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  Speaker 1: mind who likes to create mysteries and solve mysteries, it's
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  Speaker 1: taking off now because they want to solve it before
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  Speaker 1: Jack Ryan solves it. Because we've read enough of these
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  Speaker 1: books we can do it.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, And now we've got Katie Ryan involved. Yeah, brother Kyles,
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  Speaker 2: that's right. Yeah. So yeah, you know, I think the
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  Speaker 2: series has to progress. I mean, you know, Jack ryans
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  Speaker 2: I'm the president for a long time, so he's not
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  Speaker 2: out in the field doing these things. So you know,
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  Speaker 2: we need somebody who can kind of be that analyst,
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  Speaker 2: that inner analyst, and Katie is very much a mirror
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  Speaker 2: of him, where she kind of has that same thought process,
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  Speaker 2: that same dogganness that he always displayed.
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  Speaker 1: Now, I was not shocked when I heard that the
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  Speaker 1: CIA was involved. I actually went there and wait, of
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  Speaker 1: course they are, of course, what is going on here?
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  Speaker 1: And so and to me, as a reader and somebody
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  Speaker 1: who's so up to date with news, it's like, yeah, yeah, okay,
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  Speaker 1: continue reading, let's get into this. He's taken us beyond
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  Speaker 1: the headlines with this new book.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. There are a lot of angles to this book,
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  Speaker 2: a lot of points of view, and of course John
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  Speaker 2: Clark is involved, and you know, there's a lot of angles,
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  Speaker 2: and you know, you have to kind of think to
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  Speaker 2: put it all together. But I think it does come
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  Speaker 2: together in the end. And that's kind of how our
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  Speaker 2: government works and our military intelligence communities work. It's not
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  Speaker 2: just one little section that's solving all the world's problems,
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  Speaker 2: the whole concert of all these different agencies coming together
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  Speaker 2: and hopefully fusing a coherent way to make good things happen.
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  Speaker 1: Now, aren't you in your own creative way? Also with
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  Speaker 1: Tom Clancy's new book Rules of Engagement, you're kind of
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  Speaker 1: telling these these readers that, hey, look, I know that
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  Speaker 1: drones are getting the headlines right now, but these big jets,
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  Speaker 1: these big machines, still need human connection and they need
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  Speaker 1: people behind the scenes to put the fuel inside those jets.
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  Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, you know, there are jets and there are
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  Speaker 2: big machines, and there are you know, ships involved in
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  Speaker 2: this book, and that's always going to be a part
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  Speaker 2: of our military equation. But at the very end of
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  Speaker 2: the book, you know, when it really hits the climax,
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  Speaker 2: we come down to just some pilots and a few
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  Speaker 2: airplanes that have got to solve this problem. And they've
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  Speaker 2: got all kinds of obstacles and just one after the
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  Speaker 2: other after the other, and they have to solve these problems.
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  Speaker 2: And it really comes down to just go to all
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  Speaker 2: American ingenuity. And I think that's a very Jack Ryan
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  Speaker 2: thing that's always been in the series that you have
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  Speaker 2: to kind of just think your way out of problems,
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  Speaker 2: maybe in unconventional ways.
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  Speaker 1: How do you shake it off in the way that
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  Speaker 1: I mean because you're writing about lies and deception and
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  Speaker 1: I know that as a writer, because if we're feeling it,
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  Speaker 1: you obviously felt it. And it's like, how do you
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  Speaker 1: get up from that writing desk and then go live
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  Speaker 1: in the real world knowing that all of this stuff
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  Speaker 1: is happening inside your book and you can't go talk
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  Speaker 1: to the Pentagon about it. You have to deal with yourself.
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  Speaker 2: Well, I think one of my duty I mean, I
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  Speaker 2: keep up with the news, and I think one of
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  Speaker 2: my dudes as a writer is to kind of forward
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  Speaker 2: think and problems. You know, what can come up. You know,
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  Speaker 2: if I can think of a bad scenario for our
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  Speaker 2: government and soaking the bad guys and you know, so
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  Speaker 2: these terrorist type plots, you had to kind of, you know,
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  Speaker 2: think forward and see what what is out there, what
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  Speaker 2: kind of threats are out there, and how might we
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  Speaker 2: deal with you know, this one or that one. So
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  Speaker 2: that's where part of the planning and plotting when you
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  Speaker 2: start out a book is you know where to take it.
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  Speaker 2: And another thing you need to do is keep up
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  Speaker 2: with current events and not write a book that's going
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  Speaker 2: to get obviated by a current events Sammy right now.
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  Speaker 2: And I know a guy who wrote a book about
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  Speaker 2: Iran that was supposed to come out just recently, but
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  Speaker 2: when we bombed Iran last year of the nuclear program,
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  Speaker 2: it just totally six deep sex to his book because
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  Speaker 2: it was the whole plot of his book, and now
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  Speaker 2: it's changed. So you really want to kind of guard
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  Speaker 2: against that. And unfortunately this the rules of engagement. The
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  Speaker 2: plot it actually it's you know, it really didn't change
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  Speaker 2: much with the Iran war going on right now, and
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  Speaker 2: in fact, that whole idea of a choke point actually
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  Speaker 2: kind of got magnified because that's sort of what I did,
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  Speaker 2: a slightly different one version of it in the book.
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  Speaker 2: So I think it actually kind of validated the plot
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  Speaker 2: of the book.
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  Speaker 1: When when you're making quick decisions inside the book, your
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  Speaker 1: characters are bringing things to life. What is that like
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  Speaker 1: for you as the writer? Because people always say that
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  Speaker 1: I'm hard of hearing, and I go, no, it's not
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  Speaker 1: that I'm hard of hearing. My mind is elsewhere. In
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  Speaker 1: other words, it's thinking about the next book. Are you
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: in that same position when you you know that a
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  Speaker 1: decision has got to be made inside these pages, does
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  Speaker 1: it still captivate you beyond the computer?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean you're trying to put yourself in the
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: character's frame of mind and what they do individually. And
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: also you're reflecting back on you know, Jack Ryan in particular,
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  Speaker 2: he's been around a long time. He's got some backstory
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  Speaker 2: with some of the people he's dealing with in the book,
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  Speaker 2: so you have to kind of bring that into play.
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  Speaker 2: And you're also thinking a little about what's going to
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: come next in the following books, which you know then
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: Mike Waderwer is going to write the next Tom Jack
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: Ryan books, so I accord with him. Plus I coordinated
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: with the previous writers Andrews Wilson, and we kind of
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: have some you know, easter eggs in each one that
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: kind of flows from one to the next. You know,
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: it's not one continuous story, but we try to relate
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: the stories together and in small ways.
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  Speaker 1: Well, my heart is telling me that Katie Ryan is
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: going to become a marketing genius in the way of
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: bringing more attention to it, because I think this is
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: something that you can put merch toward In other words,
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: you can get t shirts, you can get books, you
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  Speaker 1: can get something where Katie gets more and more engaged
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  Speaker 1: with who we are as readers out here, because it's like,
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  Speaker 1: we don't want to just read a book, we want
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  Speaker 1: to live it somehow some way.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, well the merching, that's all up to the estate.
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  Speaker 2: But yeah, I definitely think we're bringing in new characters
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  Speaker 2: a little bit. I think you need to in a
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  Speaker 2: series that's of running this lawn for over forty years now. Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: and I think you know, but like I said, Katie
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  Speaker 2: is kind of her dad's alter ego, so even though
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  Speaker 2: it's not Jack Ryan, it kind of is. So you know,
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  Speaker 2: we'll see where it goes in the future.
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  Speaker 1: Wow. Where can people go to find out more about
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  Speaker 1: what you're doing, where the book is and if you
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  Speaker 1: doing any speaking engagements? My god, I would love to
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  Speaker 1: be in that session.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm just doing one right now. It's gonna be
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  Speaker 2: it's going to be in Tampa at the Oxford Exchange
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  Speaker 2: release day which is next Tuesday, And you can find
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  Speaker 2: out more at my website. It's Ward Larson with l
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  Speaker 2: r SE n Wardlarson dot com.
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  Speaker 1: You gotta come back to this show anytime in the future.
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  Speaker 1: Ward Man, I'm telling you what. I have so many
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  Speaker 1: Clancy interviews. I just I just love this because the
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: group is there, the community is there, and they're waiting
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: to hear from you.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: Ward. Yeah, I'm happy to be here. Yeah, it's a
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: really great community. I'm glad to be part of it.
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  Speaker 1: Will you be brilliant today?
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: Okay, sir, Right,