Latest / Chef's PSA Podcast / Franck Desplechin: Luxury Hotel Leadership & The Trap of Chasing Titles (Ep. 185)

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Franck Desplechin: Luxury Hotel Leadership & The Trap of Chasing Titles (Ep. 185) · Chef's PSA Podcast

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Hello, Chef's This is Chef's PSA and I'm your host, Andre Natera.
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Today I'm joined by Frank Desplachan, chef, hospitality
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leader and author of Relentless Growth.
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He spent decades in the kitchen and leadership roles and now
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focuses on what actually sustained success beyond titles,
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awards, and ego. In this episode, we talked about
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storytelling, authority earned through experience, generational
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shifts in kitchens, mentorship, and working in luxury hotels.
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Stay tuned. Great restaurants don't always
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bring customers in. Great stories do, because in
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food, beverage and hospitality, what you sell is only part of
0:47
the story. It's the why behind it, the
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authority you create and the experience that you've built.
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Market Scale turns expertise into content that connects
1:00
podcasts, video series and industry education, not ads
1:05
assets. Market Scale has brought run the
1:09
pass and how to manage like an executive chef to life real
1:12
world examples of how great content leads the conversation.
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Because attention is earned and the industry doesn't need more
1:20
noise. It needs more leaders.
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So I am, I'm French and I've skipped high school, got into
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the world of chef and at the time I believe that intensity,
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endurance, shut the fuck up is the way of being professional.
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And as long as you respect those 3 rules then you'll earn your
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pace and you continue to climb. And so I did that for as long as
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I could remember. I continued the ladder and when
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I became my own exec chef and that I reached kind of the
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summit of what my career was and one night after service
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something was not feeling right. I had just become exec chef
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about 3 months prior and I was by myself in the kitchen.
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How old are you at this point 2929 and where were you the?
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Chef, I was in Hawaii and I, I realized that I felt completely
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disconnected from myself. I felt like something was not
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sitting right. I just was, I was, I thought
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that I would be into a level of fulfillment that I just didn't
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feel at all. And and that's where I kind of
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trying to, I trying to understand why now that I had
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everything that I've dreamed of work 15 years to build that I
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was just not feeling it like almost like a aha moment that I
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was waiting for and that I didn't feel.
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And that's where I realized that chasing the success was not
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necessarily what would give me that fulfillment.
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And so I started to introspect making self-assessment of what I
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was missing along my journey and started to focus on my mindset
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and what gross means to me and kind of removing the world's
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success being an external validation and becoming more
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towards gross, which was my internal alignments with who I
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wanted to be and the identity that I wanted to be.
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And from that point on, all the gross expected and that I did
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throughout my career started to make a lot of sense.
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I was able to connect the dot backwards with the choices that
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I've made in my career, but for the wrong rationale.
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And so I just started to now taking the next job that was
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providing me an ability and a space to be myself and being
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able to be the leader that I wanted to be rather than the
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leader I was expected to be. And that shifted everything for
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me from that point on. It's interesting that you share
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that. I had a very similar experience
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with my second executive chef job.
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And it was the job that I had wanted for quite some time.
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And it was a, it was a beautiful luxury hotel resort in
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California with multiple restaurants.
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And we had a restaurant where we had complete carte blanche to do
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whatever we wanted. And we're doing at that time,
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molecular gastronomy, which was hot bubble food, as I like to
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call it. And I remember I hated it.
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I felt soulless. I felt drained.
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I was like, I finally am able to express myself creatively with
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all this food. And, and you know, and, and
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we've talked about working in hotels.
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When you work in a hotel and you have multiple restaurants, it's
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great because you could express yourself through different
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identities, different aspects of, of your personality.
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And I remember sitting outside in the, where the employees
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would smoke cigarettes and just kind of looking up at the palm
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trees in the California sky. And I said, I hate it here.
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I hate this job and I thought I was chasing the glory and the
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accolades and the freedom as a chef to do my food and express
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myself. And when I finally got there, I
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didn't enjoy it. You're you came to the
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realization immediately. Then I didn't because I still
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kept chasing. I thought, well, maybe I got to
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do better food. Maybe I got to maybe I maybe I
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maybe I thought this was it, but it wasn't.
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So I still kept chasing that. And it wasn't until maybe 10
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years after that moment that it finally clicked.
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But for me, it was different because what clicked for me was
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where I was successful had everything to do with workplace
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culture, and it had nothing to do with my culinary ability.
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And that that was that was the moment for me.
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But it's interesting because it's very similar to how you how
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you explained it. Yeah, it's it's funny you say
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that because I've always been driven with a golden objective.
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I always had that when I entered the luxury hotel world in
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America, or at least it was an American company.
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We start with it in when I was 23 years old, I find out there
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was only about 23 or 24 Saint Regis in the world at the time.
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And Saint Regis Bryan was on the top of the brands at the time.
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And when I find out that I could be an exec chef young within
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this industry and I could become an exec chef young within the
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Sand Regis who was one of the best brand, I started to make
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myself a goal. I said OK, my goal now is to be
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a youngest exec chef of the Sand Regis.
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And in order to do that, I started to look at every single
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exec chef that existed within Saint Regis and find out that
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the oldest one at the time was about 31 to 32 years old.
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That's OK though. My goal now is to be less than
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30 years old when I'm going to reach it.
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And that became the only motivation ID I remove all
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distraction and all noises out of my life for seven years in
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order to reach that. And obviously I reached my goal.
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I got a 29 years old in eight months.
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So, but when I got it, I, I, I, I just, you know, it's
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satisfaction. I just checked my hand for about
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5 minutes, then move on. And then three months later,
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that's where I realized that I was entirely disconnected.
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I just was not. I just took what's next?
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Now, it's not like my life is over.
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I'm 29. And so, so, so, but all of this,
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I was having the wrong goals, the wrong objective.
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They were fuel, I understand that did a few that made me able
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to reach that level of excellence, but they were not
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necessarily providing me any kind of fulfillment.
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I was just blind to my real needs that I needed to have,
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which who am I doing this for? I was self-serving.
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I was doing everything for me. I was bring able to provide that
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level of, you know, you're receiving those accolades and
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you're receiving those, those articles about you and what you
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do. And they just, they just fear
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your ego, fuel your ego as much as possible.
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And then you realize that they're not the right one.
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All those titles, those stars, those, those moments when he
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gets hard, some of the days that he gets hard, that you realize
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that they actually don't help you at all.
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It's interesting and and again, very similar.
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What I noticed in myself is that I was very ready for the the
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head chef job culinary wise, but I was not ready emotionally.
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That was that was for me. What I noticed is I was still,
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you know, temperamental, emotional.
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I would get upset very easily. I didn't know how to lead.
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And So what I've, as I take a step back now and I, and I give
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advice to chefs that are on the come up.
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It's like, just because you're a good cook does not mean you're
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going to be a good chef. Those two things don't always
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don't always equal because my culinary ability skyrocketed.
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But my leadership was, you know, they, they didn't meet until
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probably in my late 30s. You know, where they, they, they
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kind of hit that, that, that point where they merge
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equilibrium. It's interesting to hear someone
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else share this because I, I love hearing it 'cause it's
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like, wow, very, very similar to, to what I experienced.
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And you know, on the point of the awards, one of the things
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that I noticed is you start to chase them because it becomes
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expected, not because I get that rush anymore.
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I was like, I'm expected to be on these lists or I'm expected
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to get the stars or fill in the blank, whatever award that I'm
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that I happened to be receiving or to be invited to the certain
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Chefs Network Circle event. Or the the bigger the bigger the
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award, the bigger the article, the bigger the exposure is what
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you assimilate as you progress and you assimilate as you
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success. Therefore, you're just chasing
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them because there are transactional.
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Right. But then you start to believe
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the bullshit. You start to believe I'm really
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as great as they wrote about me. The danger in that is if you
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believe everything that's positive, then you're also
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likely to get crushed by everything that's negative.
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Absolutely, because when they write a negative article about
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you, and I know I experienced this first hand when I was when
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everything was, you know, when I was the hammer, I loved it.
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But as soon as I became the nail, not so fun, right?
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And I thought, wow, am I really that bad?
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Do I suck? You know, they're they're
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writing that the food's not good anymore.
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Maybe I lost my magic or whatever the case may be.
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And it's interesting because you have to look at look at it very
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objectively when you're receiving positive accolades or
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negative accolades, it's like if you have 10 cameras taking a
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photo of you, they all have a different, they all have a
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different photograph. They're all from a different
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perspective and you're in all of them, but they're all different
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perspectives of you. It's not you.
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Interesting. I, I, I love it, Chef, go on.
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I'm, I'm loving this. I'm loving your stories.
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Yes. It's, it's funny you mentioned
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that because the when you enter the world of luxury hotels, I
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think there was a part, the fact that I was French.
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It's an expectation that I'm a good chef because I come from
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France, especially coming in America.
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So it didn't matter if I suck at cooking.
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I was French, therefore I can be a good.
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Chance you you. It was almost like you had a an
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authority above everyone. And I've heard it the very first
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time when I started because when I came to US thirteen years ago,
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I didn't speak a word in English.
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So I didn't understand anything. But when I started to get my
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English squared and being able to understand when we're doing
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tastings for weddings and like a year prior to the wedding.
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And I realized that my sales managers or director, the way
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they were sharing. And he's like, if you're
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choosing us, we have a menu that is being written by a French
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chef that has work here, here, here, here.
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And it just kind of became organically kind of the
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marketing aspect and the marketing value of the hotel
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just because of who I am. And I started to take that.
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My ego was like, I have a head like a freaking melon.
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And I just decided to say, wow, this is amazing.
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I'm feeling so appreciated. That's in the United States.
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Like it's like, wow, I said in in France, if you don't have a
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mission, star you and nobody. And in US, just because I was
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who I am, I was already receiving a lot of accolades and
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that was very dangerous because I, I started to understand that
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I was a value of the hotel just because of who I was.
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And so when I did some events or when I was in restaurant and
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when you're getting guests, that's that just say it was the
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most horrible vacation I ever have in this hotel.
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The food sucks and then you're getting all those things and if
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you're getting a ego and a pride that is too high, you almost
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diminishes and and they say they just didn't understand and I'm
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just going to focus on the right one.
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And then you're just starting to realize that you actually
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feeling your own ego and you fueling your own pride into you
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are that good. And you, you fall from the sky
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very quickly when, when you have a general manager that comes
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forward and just say, OK from your performance and not great.
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And then suddenly you're starting to what do you mean?
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I don't understand. And you fall from cloud 9 and
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you just just don't know how to behave.
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You don't know. And you're starting to cast
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blame to everything else and not looking at yourself.
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So it's important I think as you're working towards your own
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growth and internal alignments that you are looking at the role
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you're playing when it's good and the role you're playing when
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is not going so good and how much you impacting either of
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that. Yeah, and it and it, it's easier
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said than done. I'll I'll say that like it.
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It took me 1520 years to figure it out as a chef, right?
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But before I fully and, and even then, the person that I thought
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mastered it when I left the culinary world in 2022, in 2025,
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where we are now, I think I would change things then.
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Like even now I've grown and like I would do things different
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now because I understand things differently.
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So it's a, it's a constant evolutionary process that an
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individual goes through. And it's, you know, I like to
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say when you were a little kid, you played with trucks and, and,
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and, and when you were a teenager, you, you played with
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girls, right? So it's like your interest, your
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interest changes as you as you grow up and the same thing
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happens as a chef. What you thought was really
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interesting with food, with culture, with leadership, those
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things also evolve with you and you mature as a, as a, as a
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chef. One of the things that I find
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very interesting is a lot of times we look at some of these
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older chefs and we think that they don't have value, which is
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terrible. And the reason we associate
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value a lot of times as a chef, as we associate value with
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culinary trendiness or acumen, we say they bring value because
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they're, they're able to do X amount of things and their food
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is very relevant or they're receiving awards.
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So that's the value. But what we're missing out is
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sometimes the value isn't necessarily just that.
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The value is also the fact that they understand how to remain
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calm in situations. They understand how to develop
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their team. They, they understand that, hey,
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you got to, you got to ride the wave.
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There's going to be good times and bad times.
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They've been up and they've been down, but what ends up happening
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is you have a younger chef who looks at that and says, I could
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do better food than that and I'll do it for less.
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And so the boss pushes them out, right.
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We, we sometimes push out some of the older.
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Yeah, we push out the threat and we promote a little bit of of a
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naive chef who has culinary ability but is naive and all
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these other aspects that the more seasoned chef did have.
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Maybe they weren't the most trendy.
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But it's it, it's an interesting dynamic.
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A lot of people, and I want to ask you about this, a lot of
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people have said that we've pushed out some of our best and
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brightest, you know, around the COVID 2020 reset that we had
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recently. What's your take on that?
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I agree that the industry has lost some of the most talented
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people. I think you would think that the
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people have less for another industry.
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But I think the industry, when they had the opportunity during
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COVID to reinvent themselves, they were on standby like
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everybody else in the world. They came back with the same
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mindset that, oh, we just took a break.
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Let's let's take it where we left it off and you realize that
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that just didn't stick. People had a taste for work life
16:26
balance. They had a taste for what it
16:28
means to not work all the time and they loved it.
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And we, we did just ended up choosing something else than the
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industry that they were conditioned to choose before
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that. So, so, so I, I believe that the
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industry pushed out the best people out of the industry and
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now we are tackling a different workforce.
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They're not the millennials anymore.
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They're the Gen. Z's that are coming within the
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industry. And they have different mindset,
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they have different way of looking at life and they're not
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necessarily willing. Like me, when I used to be
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normalizing pain and suffering within the industry, I used to
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normalize this. But the generation that comes
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after us, they're not lazy. They're just not willing to pull
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up with meaningless pain. They're just not willing to do
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that. They're not willing to just shut
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the fuck up. They're willing to just work to
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what's required, but they're not necessarily willing to
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compromise their identity and who they want to be.
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And I think we are right in the middle of this now.
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And I think it's just imploding more than exploding.
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And, And so, yeah, people are not people.
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Now. Would you have thought one time
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in any time in your career that you could just quit with no job
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lined up after that? Absolutely does.
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Yes, well, now. I would I would get anxiety
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thinking about. That oh, it did give anxiety
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before you even give you notice, you have anxiety, right?
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And so you're starting to line up another job to make sure the
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anxiety is as short as possible. Here we're dealing with a
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generation that do not even care about that.
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They just say, you know what? It's not for me.
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I'm going to quit. Do you have something?
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I just say no, I'll just take a month off.
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I'll figure it out. So many younger generation just
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doing this and I'm just like mind, mind blowing looking at
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this and say, but what are you going to do after I say I don't
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know, I'll figure it out. And that's where after you see
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that on resumes, when you're receiving those resumes, you see
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people have jumped around and people have been able to say how
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I don't understand why did you have 4 jobs in the last two
18:24
years? Yeah, that was just not the job
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for me. And they all have rational and
18:28
realistic reason why they didn't stay that you almost give it OK,
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that that makes total sense. But I was wired to see a resume
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that needed to be progressive, linear and see that there is
18:40
there is something someone has taking time to build a resume
18:44
over the last 10 years. But those one became one Unicorn
18:48
out of 25 resumes, which is not sustainable for us.
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We kind of needed to reinvent ourself on how we hiring the
18:54
generation that comes after us because they just looking at
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things different than what we wear.
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In the same way that my parents thought that playing video games
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was a waste of my time. But if I had persevered in video
19:05
games, I might be in the video games business and I probably
19:08
would not be doing everything that I do now.
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But that was a world they did not understand in a world that
19:13
they did not comprehend because that's not the world they were
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coming from. And I'm trying myself to change
19:19
that narrative, to realize that I can actually pivot and being
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aware of what they're looking for and trying to shape them in
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the world that they can thrive. And that's what I'm trying to
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do. How do you think?
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Knowing that, and I think your assessment is spot on, by the
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way, and you know, you could say it's positive, you can say it's
19:38
negative, it just is. How do you adjust kitchens now
19:45
for that because you still want to have retention.
19:48
You still don't want to lose people after a few weeks when
19:50
they say this is not for me. But a lot of the same, a lot of
19:59
the same chaos still exists in kitchens.
20:02
You still have the endless tickets, you still have the
20:03
amount of prep, you still have small margins.
20:06
You still have to make food cost.
20:07
You still have the pressure of ownership and you know the lease
20:11
and everything that goes with it and run labours up and the
20:14
labours up. And then you're still dealing
20:17
with all of that. But now you also have.
20:20
A new thing, and it's not that it's a new thing, it's just
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there's a spotlight on it right now is now you have to also
20:25
create an environment and a culture where people want to
20:30
work for you and not leave after after their first shift, so to
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speak with and say so and so. This is just not for me.
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So how are you approaching that challenge now?
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I I I think. I have approached it for years,
20:44
for years now, and I think I've unfortunately in many
20:48
organization that I was being treated as an anomaly.
20:53
I was taking this extra time to allow mistakes.
20:57
And when you work in a luxury environment, when mistake is the
21:00
enemy, excellence is what you thrive for.
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There's no space or grace to allow mistakes, but I was
21:06
allowing it. And I was allowing it because I
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knew at that point that I was not seeking out excellence.
21:13
I was just seeking out retention.
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I was just seeking out an environment that is healthy and
21:18
I wanted people to come to work for me because man, I was tired
21:22
and exhausted of having to receive a call at 6:00 in the
21:25
morning and say the Hostess called out, can you come be a
21:28
host? And then you finish your host
21:29
shift as the boss. And then you say, Hey, I've got
21:32
I need some help here for this. And I'm here.
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And you end up working 16 hour shift, 17 hour shift when you've
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done 5 jobs except yours. And so you kind of looking at it
21:42
and just say, OK, get the pressure say.
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Why isn't your stuff? Yeah.
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And then then you. Do that for too many days in a
21:47
row and suddenly say, well, we got some bad reviews from why
21:49
did you miss the meeting? And it's like, well, I missed
21:51
the meeting because I was on the floor trying to make sure that
21:53
the lunch goes well. And so, so all of those things,
21:56
you being held accountable for the wrong expectation and you
22:00
have a 2 narrative, you have the one that you believe is the way
22:02
to go and you have the one that you're being held accountable
22:04
for. And so I, I, I, I guess I, I got
22:08
into places where I was finding it, I was finding the
22:13
expectation out of me and I was just following my, my authentic
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stuff. I was following my instincts and
22:20
I started to pay attention to the individuals that was working
22:23
for me. And it took me a lot more time.
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So I was still doing long shift instead of 16 hours exhausting.
22:31
I was maybe doing 12 hour shift, but those 12 hours were becoming
22:35
meaningful because I was spending the extra time to say,
22:38
hey, Megan, let's go and sit down for a minute.
22:40
It's not called. There's no meeting on your
22:42
schedule, nothing. So let's go sit down for a
22:44
minute. And you changing the narrative
22:46
of why is the boss calling me in his office to yeah, I would love
22:50
to have time with you. Right.
22:51
And once you've changed that, when you realize it's a.
22:53
Human relations business it's it's at.
22:56
The hospitality is about people serving people.
22:58
It has nothing to do with food. Regardless of what chef you are,
23:01
you realize that you here in a people business.
23:04
Therefore you take care of people and in order to do that,
23:07
you have to be taking each individual and finding out what
23:10
is it that they need. How can you help and you find
23:13
out that that younger generation is actually responding very well
23:18
into a development driven leadership versus a performance
23:22
driven leadership? Yeah, yeah.
23:24
And. And going around for me, shaking
23:26
everyone's hand when I would arrive to work, sitting down and
23:29
having an espresso with them. Those are the moments that they
23:33
remember, you know, they, they remember the time that we spent
23:36
sitting down having, you know, story time or whatever.
23:39
You know, I was doing a podcast before I was doing a podcast
23:41
with my staff. It's funny that you talk about
23:44
hotels because I spent a lot of time in luxury hotels as well.
23:47
And I, I very much enjoyed my time in, in hotels, especially
23:54
because I'm not sure if people fully understand the difference
23:56
between just a hotel and a high end luxury hotel.
23:59
You're a high end luxury hotel. There's some really interesting
24:04
positives to it in terms of, I don't want to say money is no
24:09
object, but it's less of an issue.
24:11
Food cost, you got to hit it, but nothing really happens if
24:14
you don't. You're able to be more creative.
24:19
You're constantly doing special events.
24:20
You're exposed to many more types of cuisine.
24:23
You have resources, you have a pastry chef, you probably have a
24:25
pastry team. You're able to make show pieces
24:28
and things like that. You have access to an
24:30
engineering team that's going to repair your equipment and change
24:33
the light bulbs. You have a stewarding team
24:35
that's going to scrub the floors or night cleaners that come in.
24:37
So you have many more if everything is functioning.
24:40
Correctly if everything is. Functioning correctly, you have
24:42
a lot more resources than than a typical hotel and also an
24:46
independent restaurant. What's what I didn't like about
24:50
hotels, you know, having been in an independent restaurant and
24:54
also in a, in a, in a hotel, and even especially now with what I
24:57
do with when I do consulting work, and I know you do a lot of
25:00
consulting work right now as well.
25:02
One of the things that hotels get wrong and it's not talked
25:05
about enough. So I want to say this because I
25:06
know a lot of people from hotels listen to my podcast.
25:09
So this is me speaking to them. What hotels do wrong is we teach
25:15
chefs how to go into cost containment mode, but an
25:21
independent restaurant teaches you how to go on the offense
25:23
with sales because you live and die in a restaurant every day by
25:27
sales. How much how much money did you
25:29
make? Where a hotel, they don't view
25:31
it always from a sales optics because it's going to take them
25:35
a year before they have to do job eliminations, right.
25:38
They're they're not going to feel the pain for two or three
25:40
years out. But an independent restaurant is
25:42
going to feel the pain next week, next month if if we don't
25:45
have sales. And So what hotels typically do
25:48
is they go into immediate cost cutting mode.
25:51
We'll just close this restaurant or you know, we'll, we'll
25:53
contingency. Plan.
25:54
Yeah, contingency plan. Which I think is completely the
25:56
wrong way to frame it because what you end up teaching the
25:59
chefs is there's no sense of urgency on taking that club
26:06
sandwich with foie gras off the menu.
26:07
That's not selling. But you know, the chef likes to
26:10
do their food. There's no urgency in it because
26:13
if you were, if it was selling, it's not a problem, but it's not
26:18
selling and no one's telling me not to.
26:19
So I'm going to try and cut people's hours and do all this
26:22
instead of focusing on the real problem.
26:24
So I, I do think that hotels sometimes have that negative
26:28
aspect of they don't teach you how to be good entrepreneurs.
26:33
They teach you how to be good managers and cost cutters.
26:36
I totally agree. You, you find yourself in a
26:38
position when suddenly the contingency plan, the C word
26:43
that they coming and they throw this contingency plan and
26:45
suddenly they're just telling you, OK, well, we need to, we
26:49
need to save money and we need to save X amount of money.
26:52
And the most expensive labor in an entire hotel is usually
26:55
engineering or culinary. Those are the most expensive
26:57
because they're skilled in techniques technician.
27:00
So they're the first, the first thing because at that time, the
27:03
stakeholder, the ownership, the management company, whoever they
27:06
are, they want an immediate result.
27:08
They want the PNL of this month to be showing that there is
27:12
actual resort, impactful resort. But when you have a resort with
27:15
9 outlets, 60 culinarian, 300 rooms in a luxury business, it's
27:21
hard to make an impact for the months, for the months.
27:24
So their their reaction of pulling the plug comes usually
27:28
very late in the game. And when we could have prevented
27:31
all this, but because we made food costs, because there was
27:34
profit, then let's not look at the opportunities.
27:37
And when you go into those PNR reviews, you just pay attention
27:40
and you just like you expecting you coming all prepared to the
27:43
PNR review because you know, you have opportunities, you can do
27:47
better into this aspect and you're coming all prepared.
27:49
And they just over shadow this whole thing.
27:51
I say, I think it was a great story.
27:52
Great months, guys, good job. See you next month.
27:55
And so, and he's like, oh, OK, but I have some stuff.
27:58
I said, Oh, you're good man, that I mean, it happens, it's
28:00
fine. And so you end up taking it in
28:02
and you say, OK, I don't want to get just colded and held
28:04
accountable if I don't need to. But then you realize two months
28:07
later and say, well, what's happening, Frank, why is the
28:10
food cost not good? That's like the second month.
28:13
And I there's the same and within chefs in hotel, like
28:15
you're never as good as your last food cost.
28:17
And so so so you can have seven months of amazing food costs and
28:21
being a line, but then the 8th month you messed it up some
28:24
ways. You order more food or whatever
28:26
you did went sideways and suddenly you feel like good job
28:29
those late. Invoices finally doesn't.
28:31
Like and you say, what do you mean you didn't pay the invoice?
28:34
Oh, these invoices. Are from four months ago.
28:36
Yeah, they're the big ones and they're, they're the one.
28:38
That suddenly you feel super stressed out, super anxious,
28:42
because now your entire job in existence in this hotel is in
28:46
question because you messed up a month.
28:48
And you just like, well, that doesn't sit well.
28:50
And so you have that pressure to meet food costs, which now
28:53
distract you from what you actually supposed to be doing
28:56
because now the food cost is the only thing, right, that you're
28:59
focusing on. Yeah.
29:00
You're, you're playing catch up for something that happened
29:03
several months back, Yeah. When you should be focusing on
29:07
how do I improve the operation today?
29:08
And what a lot of a lot of the mistakes happen in hotels is
29:13
you're behind a computer screen looking at Excel spreadsheets
29:15
and PNLS and labor reports. But you're not in the operation
29:20
where if you were teaching them how to trim meat better and you
29:23
were showing them what not to throw away and how to turn that
29:26
trim into something that can be sold.
29:28
If you were in the, you would see that if you were in the
29:30
operation. But instead, you're, you're
29:31
stuck in a meeting and I don't know how many times as a chef, I
29:36
was pulled into P&L review or labor review or cost review.
29:42
It happened multiple times a month, but I was never pulled
29:44
into what we call Rev Max meeting, right?
29:47
That was always the sales team. And so that always taught that
29:51
always taught us to be managing the cost, but it never taught us
29:54
how to increase sales. And we were always excluded in
29:57
general. Now, I'm not saying every, every
29:58
operation operates that way. If, if you're a, if you're a
30:01
hotel EA and you're listening to this podcast, here's some advice
30:05
from the two of us. Bring your chef and teach them
30:08
how to raise money. Yeah, teach them how to increase
30:11
revenue so they have a style report.
30:12
Yeah. Help them understand that it is
30:15
all about revenue and as the expression is, you know, revenue
30:17
cures or forgives all sins, right?
30:21
But we don't talk about that enough.
30:22
We always we always just talk about like food cost.
30:24
And I would hate it. I would hate it when I would get
30:27
together with other chefs. You know, if there was like a a
30:30
conference or something and you're with other chefs and they
30:32
would just stand around what's your food cost?
30:34
I'm gonna, I had a 21 and I had a 19.
30:37
I'd be like, yeah, all of your food sucks.
30:40
All of you are shitty chefs. That's what I was.
30:41
I would always think like, you guys are sitting here bragging
30:44
about how great your food cost is and all of you have empty
30:47
restaurants with terrible food. Like, how are you proud of that?
30:51
And yeah, OK, my food cost is 3% higher, but guess what?
30:54
All my employees are happy. I got fucking articles written
30:58
about how great our food is. We have a line out the door,
31:01
sorry, but but you keep your 2% that that's the that's.
31:04
The real measurement is, is do you have do you have how, how do
31:09
you measure success in that regard?
31:10
And is usually the external validation of you made food
31:13
cause therefore you should be validated when, when I I think
31:16
we forgot that's the real measure of success is do you
31:21
have a team that want to works for you?
31:22
Do you have a team that respects you?
31:24
Do you have guests that are coming back in winter when
31:27
you're in a remote location and that you're counting on the
31:30
local to come and make your restaurant survive?
31:33
Do you do you count? Those are the real measure of
31:36
success. Do you create initiative, food
31:39
and beverage initiative or special menu for the locals that
31:43
have been supporting you all year or you just doing it when
31:46
you know the hotel is full? Those kind of things because you
31:49
need to spend a bit of money in order to do an initiative during
31:52
the time that you're dead in winter.
31:54
And, and, but it's important to invite them and just say, Hey,
31:57
thank you for supporting us during the tough time.
31:59
Thank you for coming because if you are not here, we probably
32:02
would not be open. And so so you kind of shifting
32:05
this too much emphasis into the guests that are coming into our
32:09
hotels and resort because they just spent fifteen $2000 room
32:13
night. They are too much emphasized
32:15
versus the local that just comes here for dinner and often time
32:19
in some state they can bring the bottle of wine and and so you
32:22
just oh man, I miss on that revenue.
32:24
But at the end of the day, they enjoy coming here.
32:27
That's what should be all that matters.
32:29
They just enjoy coming here. So treat them because they enjoy
32:32
coming here. If you're not going to treat
32:34
them well, you're going to make them feel like they're not as
32:37
important, even though they're here to enjoy themselves, then,
32:40
then they will not come back. Anyone that's coming.
32:42
Into your restaurant is, you know, amazing.
32:47
They treat them at like such. They're giving you their
32:50
business. They could have chose to eat
32:51
anywhere else they chose here. Yeah.
32:54
Interesting. I I love this.
32:56
I love this thought. I haven't thought about a lot of
32:57
these things in quite some time. So it's it's I'm enjoying this
33:00
conversation very much. When I was when I was a hotel
33:05
chef in California. Nancy Sinatra.
33:09
Nancy Sinatra or Barbara Sinatra.
33:12
Anyway, one one of the sinatras you know of Frank Sinatra.
33:15
So it was either. The daughter or the wife?
33:18
She would host her events there and Livio, his name was Libio
33:22
Masigiani. He was the chef of the Italian
33:24
restaurant and she loved him because he was Italian and she
33:29
was doing this event. So I created this menu, this
33:31
Italian menu for her and it's like 8 dishes that we had to do
33:35
for the tasting. Libio comes to me and says,
33:38
which one do you want her to pick?
33:40
And I said, I really like this veal chop.
33:42
I think, I don't remember what it was, but I remember it was a
33:44
veal chop. I said, I really like this veal
33:45
chop. It's going to be easy for us to
33:46
execute. It's tasty.
33:47
It's good. He's like, great.
33:49
So we go into the tasting and she loved Olivio.
33:53
Loved him. She's giving him a hug and a
33:55
kiss and Olivio and this, that and the other And Andre, you
33:59
know, Andre's, he's the chef here.
34:01
Oh, yeah. Hi.
34:02
Yeah. Whatever.
34:03
It's like dismissed me and he's he's she says he's like, well,
34:09
for today's taste. And there's a combination of
34:10
dishes that I made and dishes that Andre made and she's like,
34:13
oh, okay. And he's like Andre made all of
34:16
these and I made the veal chop. And afterwards she's like, I
34:20
hated all of Andres dishes. I loved your veal chop.
34:25
And then he winked at me and I and I I remember thinking that
34:28
motherfucker like, like she just loved anything that he makes.
34:32
Anything that Livio makes is great.
34:33
Anything that Andre makes is shit.
34:35
Had nothing to do because I made it all.
34:36
Yeah, yeah, I just wanted to do the veal chop.
34:38
And he knew that game. He was.
34:39
He was older and wiser than me. But going back to your point
34:42
earlier, the fact that you were French, you could have said,
34:44
yeah, this, it's. All the influence, yeah, this is
34:47
it that you have absolutely. I, I, I cannot agree more.
34:50
It's it's funny how you get to shape that.
34:53
It's when I was working and said Dona and you know, I had kind of
34:57
adopted. Now this is about the team.
34:58
Like I've, I've kind of pivoted into my way of thinking.
35:02
And so I I got into this hotel and I was the chef NB.
35:07
You know the trendy title that came up at some point when you
35:09
Chef and Director FNB, you do Chef NB.
35:13
Double the work for 10% pretty much.
35:16
And so for me, it was an opportunity for me to initiate
35:21
and educate myself in the world of front of the house without
35:24
being heavily held accountable for it.
35:26
Yeah. So that was just a smooth move
35:29
in order to get there. So I took it and I realized that
35:33
I didn't have the time to write menus anymore.
35:35
And but I had very competent chef that was following me from
35:38
my previous property. And so I just started to say,
35:41
OK, guys, we need to change the menu.
35:42
The season's coming. And the evolution of that over
35:46
the span of two years is I was battling with my own team to try
35:50
to have one dish that I could do.
35:52
It was at some point it was like, OK, Mikey, you're going to
35:55
be able to do the dish. And then Nick, you're going to
35:58
do this this, and John, you're going to do this dish.
36:00
And then at some point I just like, can I just have one?
36:02
Just give me one whatever and say, OK, from you can get the
36:05
lobster dish. And so I was able to have, but
36:08
my name was always on the menu, but I was allowing them the
36:12
place to starting to become chefs.
36:15
Before they were chefs, Mike cooks were in charge.
36:17
And you realize that he has an effect that I didn't see coming
36:21
at the time when I started. This is when you are at home
36:23
because you can't work seven days a week in a hotel when
36:26
you're at home sitting on your couch watching TV.
36:29
Now you have a team of chefs that have extremely invested and
36:34
engaged towards the food because they created it, you validated
36:38
it, they went through a tasting, you give them feedback, they
36:40
went back to the drawing board, they come back until you have
36:43
the dish that is completely finished to your liking because
36:45
it's your name on the menu. Then you know, now they're going
36:48
to apply themselves. And we got some of our best
36:51
result food wise when we started to shift.
36:53
This is allowing the people the space to grow and to allow to
36:58
make mistake, but also being able to come up with their own
37:00
dish and also receiving criticism there.
37:03
It's most of the cooks. I remember in my time for the
37:06
first eight years of my life, I needn't come up with my own
37:09
dish. The chefs come with the menu.
37:11
You do your menu, you shut the F up and then you just doing
37:14
whatever it is. That's the way you were coming
37:16
up. But, but, but I try to shift
37:18
that to give them a voice, culinary speaking and be open to
37:21
criticism. It's funny.
37:24
I hear the chef and beefing. I've I've never said yes to that
37:28
job. Never, never.
37:29
I was like, I'm not doing double the work for 10% and anytime and
37:33
I I know I have some chefs friends that have worked for me
37:36
that are listening that are now chef and bees and both of them
37:40
I, I remember when they called me up and they said, Hey,
37:43
they're offering me chef and bee.
37:44
What should I do? I said double the word for 10%
37:47
Tom the fuck off. But they both took the job.
37:50
They both both of them took the job.
37:52
And I know when you're in that position, it's not so easy to
37:53
say no because the alternative is OK.
37:56
Well, it it. Would the the hardest part of
37:59
that is at some point you have to hang your chef coat.
38:03
You cannot be a performance and engaging chef NB let's call it
38:09
that way. Without hanging your chef coat,
38:12
you cannot manage the front of the house staying from the Expo
38:15
line. You just can't.
38:16
And so at some point I had to make the hard decision to just
38:21
hang my chef coat. But I also, I trained my team to
38:24
be able to run this kitchen the way I needed them to run the
38:27
kitchen. And so I slowly kind of removed
38:29
myself from the kitchen operation and I realized that
38:32
coming with the sports coat or the suit, whatever the the
38:35
uniform was for the front of the house, I could go in the kitchen
38:37
as often as I wanted to go and still be in my comfort place, in
38:40
my comfort zone, being able to still direct a few things.
38:44
But now I was expected to be in the front of the house.
38:46
So it became something that I'd done rather quickly.
38:49
It was hard, but I kind of almost RIP off the Band-Aid and
38:52
did it. And I realized that he actually
38:53
served me grander purpose by just hanging that chef coat very
38:57
early on. I want to ask you about your
39:01
book because I, I enjoy writing as well and I'm in the process
39:07
of writing another book. We were talking about that
39:08
earlier. I I I would be very curious
39:12
about your writing process and how do you how do you put idea
39:16
to paper? And and first of all, tell.
39:19
People a little bit about the book, yes.
39:21
So the book called Relentless Growth, which is Cultivating a
39:25
Chef's mindset for professional fulfillment.
39:31
The book is about the approach to it.
39:34
It was how do you develop a gross mindset?
39:38
I think there is books out there, one that sees the gross
39:42
mindset versus the fixed mindset.
39:44
And how do you develop a gross mindset when you just don't see
39:46
beyond yourself? And so this book is really
39:49
written with the analogy that is you against you versus you with
39:55
you. It's all about you.
39:56
The entire book is about self-assessment.
39:59
It's about how do you actually ask yourself the right question
40:02
of where you at within yourself and at any given point in your
40:06
life or in your career. And so the the reason why I felt
40:10
like I was. A right person to write this is
40:13
because the hospitality has forced me to confront an
40:18
outdated version of myself many times.
40:22
I have to reinvent and redo my identity time and time over over
40:27
the course of my career. And so the, the, the, the, the
40:31
book process is, I had observed for many years, talented people
40:38
going to exhaustion, burnout, people quitting the industry
40:42
with not necessarily have anything Plan B behind them.
40:45
And I just like, I just like, wow, this is crazy.
40:49
We are losing all of this. And I didn't write the book
40:52
because I had success in my career.
40:54
I wrote the book because I believe I had lived
40:58
instinctively, what pressure was, what adaptability was, what
41:02
resilience was. And I, I, I can articulate it
41:06
good now, but at the time, I had to hire a book coach to help me
41:10
because I had too many ideas in my head, too fuzzy.
41:14
And she helped me providing clarity into this in order to
41:17
make it the book that we wrote today.
41:18
And then you're able to to to grab so that that booking
41:22
process was that writing process was it forced me to slow down a
41:28
lot. I'm someone that is on the go,
41:30
go, go. He was once he was therapeutic
41:33
for me to go back to what what has become.
41:36
And at the same time, he forced me to slow down and pay
41:38
attention to the industry. And how can I help the student
41:43
of the student of hospitality and the the younger generation
41:48
that is currently now in school, They're currently in school.
41:50
They have decided to go in hospitality.
41:52
And as much as the school is going to do their best to
41:54
prepare them, they have no idea what they're getting into.
41:57
And so I wanted to provide them a book when they can do the work
42:01
within themself without seeking out a mentor wherever they go.
42:05
And they can actually be their own mentor in some aspect.
42:08
Interesting. I think this is.
42:09
I can't wait to read it. By the way, I'm excited.
42:13
When you're writing your process, how do you get ideas on
42:18
paper? Is it do you talk into the do
42:21
you talk and record thoughts? Do you have notes?
42:23
Do you have sticky notes? What is the to get into my new
42:26
show SO? My process I'm someone that I'm
42:32
someone that doesn't know how to write on a piece of paper and
42:35
ideas and then putting them together.
42:37
I'm someone that's going to be very much into my head and I'm
42:41
only going to write what I feel is right.
42:42
So I can spend 15 minutes not writing nothing and just like
42:46
going into my head and formulating that sentence until
42:48
I have it right and that sentence will lead to another
42:51
sentence. So it was, I was on my laptop
42:54
and just writing it, but I didn't start the writing of my
42:57
book until seven months after I started the process of the book.
43:01
I, my book coach, we created a book proposal technically, and
43:06
we go over 8 exercises in order for me to have a blueprint in
43:11
order to write my book. And it's funny because when I
43:14
thought I said I'm going to write a book and though I
43:16
announced to everybody, I'm going to write a book and
43:17
everyone says, so where you at with your book?
43:19
I haven't started yet. And so because I was into this
43:22
process and the first of the first four questions that you
43:25
ask is who we're writing the book for is why do you think the
43:29
right person to write that book? And this is there a need for
43:35
this book in the industry? And then the last one is the
43:38
last question was, do you think you've done enough in your
43:43
career to be an authority to write that book And you are
43:46
introspecting yourself. So once you answer those four
43:49
question, you answer them. Then after the second exercise
43:52
was about give me the title of this book, 10 titles of the book
43:56
that you have to give. I had no idea.
43:58
I thought the book of the title was coming at the end of the
44:00
book, but no. So I wrote ten titles even
44:03
though I didn't really believe in them.
44:04
Find out that one of the 10 end up becoming relentless gross,
44:07
which is funny enough. And the next exercise is
44:11
everyone thing. They're writing the book that
44:13
nobody's never written. OK, you all we all think that
44:16
we're going to this and rewrite the book nobody's never written
44:19
before. And finding out that the
44:21
exercise with my book coach is Frank.
44:23
What are the five competitive title that you would put next to
44:28
your book on the shelf? What is it that you book would
44:31
add into the conversation? OK.
44:33
And so I had to find five books that I believe were inspiring to
44:39
me that would be somewhat similar to mine, but not like
44:42
mine. And this is what this book does
44:44
not provide and my book will provide.
44:46
And you end up finding out that you are creating an entire
44:49
blueprint of what your book's going to be about.
44:52
You're going to create a table, an annotated table of contents
44:55
with five lines per chapters. How many subtitles and by the
45:00
time you write the book and you have a blockage or you flow
45:03
doesn't come up, you just go back to this and then you're
45:06
just able to wow, that makes sense.
45:09
And you just go and go and go and go.
45:10
So doing that book proposal has definitely helped me navigating
45:15
my book writing process. The flow that I had sometime two
45:21
nights. I remember during this, I don't
45:23
know how many months I wrote this book, but two nights I
45:26
wrote my book all the way until sunrise because the flow was
45:29
there and I was so afraid to lose the flow that I was just
45:32
writing, writing, writing, writing.
45:33
And I went to bed. I woke up the next day.
45:35
I read everything I wrote. And then you obviously to shift
45:38
a few things here and there, but the intensity and the content in
45:43
engagement and the intent you wanted was tapped.
45:46
In you just. Tapped it, it was there because
45:48
the flow was there, I just needed to Polish it so my.
45:51
Process is a little bit different from yours.
45:53
I've talked about it before on the podcast, but I'm in the
45:57
process of writing another book right now.
45:59
I just, I just put one out. It's a ebook.
46:01
It was the 48 Laws of power as a chef from a chef's perspective,
46:05
and I'm giving it away for free for people that want it.
46:08
It's only ebook. I decided to not publish it just
46:11
because I was like, but this one was harder to write.
46:14
So this was I think my 7th book that I've written and it was the
46:17
hardest one to write because now I know better, you know what I
46:21
mean? The first ones there's an
46:22
expectation. Yeah, the first ones were easy.
46:23
I'd pump them out really quick. I wouldn't even like I'd write
46:26
them then yeah, that's good enough.
46:27
Put it out. Speed was my speed was my goal
46:30
more than perfection. And when I go back and now it's
46:36
like, no, it has to be perfect. So I'm looking at everything is
46:38
this is this, is this right? Is this right?
46:40
I got to make it better than the last one, but for the writing
46:44
process, then I move into the audio book process and the audio
46:49
books because I think nowadays people read with their ears more
46:52
than old school, like old school with your eyes, new school with
46:55
your ears. And I do as well.
46:57
It's, it allows me to consume an audio book driving or, you know,
47:01
while I'm washing dishes or whatever.
47:03
And I remember when I was doing the audio book, I, I listened to
47:07
it and I was like, Oh, I sound fucking terrible.
47:09
I can't. I can't.
47:11
So I was like, I'm gonna hire a, I'm gonna hire a voice actor to
47:14
do this. So a lot of people often ask me
47:16
like, why didn't you narrate your own books?
47:18
It's like, well, it's a, it's a skill.
47:19
I don't like my voice. I don't like my voice.
47:21
And I read like like when I was in 3rd grade and they would
47:25
still make me stand up and OK read to the class like and I'm
47:28
like, no, it just sounds terrible.
47:30
It doesn't flow. There's love the.
47:31
Imperfection of this though, do you I, I, I do enjoy because I
47:35
mean I'm writing a book about relentless growth.
47:37
So like if I'm not writing my own book, I'm not reading my own
47:39
book, then then I failed somewhere.
47:42
So I, I wanted to experience it just because I wanted to say
47:45
I've done it and man, it was brutal.
47:47
I, I never anticipated this to be as hard it it took me two
47:51
days, 8 hours in studio to do it.
47:54
It's coming out in January and I lost my voice after that after
47:58
those two days. I mean, obviously with my French
48:01
accent trying to read a book and making the word sounding the way
48:05
it's supposed to sound. The guy that was recording the
48:08
book, Carlos, which is awesome, is he corrected me like about
48:13
150 times. So I probably read twice the
48:15
book over within those 16 hours. But it was it was tough, but I'm
48:19
glad I did it. I don't know what's the final
48:21
product. I know I'm not going to enjoy my
48:22
voice either probably. But at the end of the day, I
48:25
know personally I have connected the most with Audible books that
48:29
was read and narrated by the author over voice actor.
48:33
And I wanted to provide that some of the feedback that.
48:36
I've gotten is like I wish Andre would have read this something.
48:38
No you don't. I tried to clone my voice
48:40
through 11 labs when I was putting out this last audiobook.
48:43
I was like maybe if I could clone my voice and see how it
48:45
sounds. Maybe a few years AI.
48:46
Will be able to, yeah, I'll tell you.
48:48
It cloned my voice, but the cadence wasn't right.
48:50
So it didn't, it didn't sound like me.
48:53
I think because I obviously I do the podcast, so I listen to a
48:56
lot of the podcast through editing so I know what I sound
48:58
like and I was like, it's my voice, but that's not how I
49:01
talk. So I was like, I can't do it.
49:02
So I if you ever hear my voice on an audiobook, I promise you
49:07
it's 11 labs. It's it's an AI clone voice.
49:09
It's not really me. Well, I hope his next.
49:11
Book you'll you'll be able to maybe I'll read the.
49:13
You'll be able to the intro or something?
49:15
Yeah. When we're wrapping up, I
49:17
typically had to ask a couple of chef questions.
49:19
So if you had a Mount Rushmore of chefs that you believe should
49:23
be on Mount Rushmore, four of them.
49:24
Who should? Who should be?
49:25
Oh wow. Mount Rushmore, Four of them.
49:29
I think Anthony Bourdain would be one of them on on there just
49:34
just because every, it's actually funny because you're
49:37
asking for chef. And while Anthony Bourdain was a
49:40
chef, he was just so much more than that.
49:42
And I think it it touched so many people beyond the chef
49:46
industry. So Anthony Bourdain will be
49:48
there. I would have people chef that
49:52
people might not know, but I would have Olivia Bolan, which
49:55
was my apprenticeship chef that I had when I was younger, which
49:58
you'll discover in the book that definitely going to be there.
50:01
This is the chef that pushed me to a level that I hated as much
50:06
as I loved it, but he pushed me to a level that give me an edge
50:09
in the industry and that kept me disciplined and focused
50:12
throughout my career. So we would definitely be there.
50:16
Third chef, I would say Jean Rabinel to Michelin Star chef,
50:20
the person that wrote the preface of my book in in in
50:27
recently. So that would be there.
50:28
That's the third and then the 4th chef.
50:32
My goodness, I would say I'm a big fan of I'm a big fan of
50:42
actually a pastry chef named Pierre Arme in France.
50:47
Yes, I've done as much pastries that I've done cooking.
50:50
So I'm able to have navigated between both world and Pierre
50:53
Arme is the first pastry chef that decided to confront the
50:58
boundaries of pastry and the sweet world by incorporated
51:01
spices, herbs and all technicals technical skills from the
51:06
culinary world into pastry. And I I love that.
51:09
I love that I fell in love with pastry because of them.
51:12
If you had. A bucket list meal someone could
51:15
cook for you, living or not, who would you want to cook for me
51:21
to? Cook for you to eat.
51:22
Their food. Oh wow.
51:27
I would say they would be two that I would love to taste their
51:30
food like them cooking for me. Not going in their restaurant,
51:33
correct? Sure, however.
51:34
You want to interpret it, so I would say.
51:35
One would be Joel Robichon that I would love to cook for me, and
51:43
the other one would be the other one, I would say Paul Bocuse.
51:49
I would love to have lived in a place and being able to afford
51:52
going into it in his place when he was alive, yeah.
51:55
That's something we'll never. Get to experience, but yeah
51:58
chef, where can. People find you people.
52:00
Can find me on social media, LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook to
52:03
website incremental, which is the name of my consulting
52:06
company. But they can find me on
52:08
cheffrom.com. They'll be able to find
52:10
everything about me and my book. And you can find my book in
52:14
pretty much every special retailers that sells books.
52:17
Well, thank you very much. Chef now.
52:18
Good to be here. It was good to be here.
52:20
Thank you, thank you, thank you. Well, I hope you enjoyed.
52:22
The show if you want to support the show, you know what to do
52:24
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52:32
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52:35
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52:38
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52:39
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52:47
notes. We'll see you next week.
52:48
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