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Stop Endless Planning: Start Sweating Now with Mason Edwards · Big Talk About Small Business

0:00
SPEAKER_03: I've had people like come and say, hey, I'm thinking about starting a business.
0:03
SPEAKER_03: Will you have coffee with me?
0:05
SPEAKER_03: I'd much rather have somebody say, Hey, Eric, uh, I just started a business and I need to have coffee.
0:11
SPEAKER_03: I got some freaking questions.
0:12
SPEAKER_03: No, no kidding.
0:13
SPEAKER_03: Right?
0:14
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
0:14
SPEAKER_03: You know what I'm saying?
0:17
SPEAKER_03: Their chances are a hundred percent more about of being successful than somebody that's just thinking about it.
0:28
SPEAKER_04: Hey everybody, we are back.
0:30
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
0:31
SPEAKER_04: Another episode of our fantastic show, the big talk about small business.
0:41
SPEAKER_04: Hell yeah.
0:42
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, we are back again.
0:44
SPEAKER_04: And it, you know, it's always great when I'm here in the studio with my partner, Eric Howarton.
0:49
SPEAKER_04: Business partner.
0:50
SPEAKER_04: Just clarify that.
0:52
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
0:53
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
0:54
SPEAKER_04: Business partner.
0:55
SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
0:55
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
0:56
SPEAKER_04: Um, I'm not that insecure about myself.
1:00
SPEAKER_04: I'm not insecure either.
1:01
SPEAKER_04: I'm just making sure we have clarity on the show.
1:05
SPEAKER_04: I do love him like a brother, though.
1:07
SPEAKER_04: Thanks, man.
1:07
SPEAKER_04: You too, bro.
1:08
SPEAKER_04: You know, he's he's a great guy.
1:10
SPEAKER_04: Um, we've got a long relationship.
1:13
SPEAKER_04: Business relationship.
1:18
SPEAKER_04: It's it's wonderful.
1:19
SPEAKER_04: Now, I've been on the show here before we had guests, and I had to be the only one speaking with them.
1:24
SPEAKER_04: And of course, the show goes great.
1:27
SPEAKER_04: I don't have to help me, Eric, like arguing with me publicly or shaming me.
1:32
SPEAKER_04: However, it's really a lot more fun when he's here.
1:36
SPEAKER_04: And I think it is, I think it's better for our audience.
1:39
SPEAKER_03: You're talking to everybody like I'm like just a guest.
1:41
SPEAKER_03: No.
1:42
SPEAKER_03: I mean, you know, ever since we've started this thing, typical, typical entrepreneurial attitude.
1:49
SPEAKER_03: You just try to take over everything.
1:50
SPEAKER_03: You're trying to get me out, you're trying to get my shares.
1:53
SPEAKER_03: Get you out, get me out of the business.
1:55
SPEAKER_04: I want you in the business.
1:57
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
1:58
SPEAKER_04: I don't want to be here by myself talking with people like Mitchison.
2:02
SPEAKER_03: You're trying to take all my sponsorship money for yourself, is what you're kind of that it's yeah, it's our sponsorship money.
2:09
SPEAKER_04: Um is crazy, crazy good.
2:12
SPEAKER_04: It's crazy, all right.
2:14
SPEAKER_04: I'll agree with that.
2:16
SPEAKER_04: It's definitely crazy.
2:19
SPEAKER_04: Um, no, we are still looking for sponsors.
2:21
SPEAKER_04: Yes, we are.
2:23
SPEAKER_04: Don't start selling.
2:25
SPEAKER_04: Should I sell that?
2:27
SPEAKER_04: Um, no, but anyway, today we've got a guest with us, uh, Mason Edwards.
2:32
SPEAKER_04: And Mason, um we're we're gonna we're gonna get into the show and talk a little bit about his his company, Edwards Gutter Cleaning.
2:40
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
2:41
SPEAKER_04: Which to me, I mean, I've been I just said this to somebody the other day.
2:44
SPEAKER_04: There's all these businesses out there where people need services they don't know who to go to.
2:52
SPEAKER_04: None of them does a good job with branding.
2:54
SPEAKER_04: No, they're all unresponsive as hell.
2:57
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, okay.
2:59
SPEAKER_04: And it's like there's just it must be like just the most fertile field in the world, just out there plowing, and everybody needs these services like gutter cleaning.
3:10
SPEAKER_04: I guarantee, I'll bet you 95% of the gutters in this town need to be clean.
3:14
SPEAKER_04: Filthy.
3:15
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, they're filthy gutters, they're just disgusting.
3:18
SPEAKER_04: They need to be clean, filthy, and you know, I never buy those gutter guards either, by the way.
3:23
SPEAKER_04: I think that's BS.
3:24
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
3:25
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
3:25
SPEAKER_04: It's like, let's make it so your gutters don't work like gutters anymore, but they never get clogged up.
3:31
SPEAKER_04: But we put shit over the top of them and it runs right off the roof.
3:34
SPEAKER_04: It's a novel idea.
3:36
SPEAKER_04: Let's rip them all off, okay?
3:38
SPEAKER_03: I really hope Mason doesn't sell gutter guards back.
3:41
unknown: Thanks.
3:42
SPEAKER_04: I'm sure it's lucrative as hell.
3:44
SPEAKER_04: They go around to old people like me.
3:46
SPEAKER_04: They're like, you know, for only$37 a month for the rest of your life, we can install these new wonderful gutter guards on here.
3:53
SPEAKER_04: And you'll be like, oh yes, that's a great idea.
3:56
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's what I want as a second lien on my house because I freaking can't afford to write a check for gutter guards.
4:03
SPEAKER_03: Hey, I'll tell you what, though, on your point about the fertile land of these small businesses, you know, especially uh with all the technological advances, everybody's thinking businesses are going to go out.
4:14
SPEAKER_03: But the reality is that we become more and more spoiled as society, individuals.
4:19
SPEAKER_03: We don't know how to fix a bang thing under the sun anymore.
4:22
SPEAKER_03: I mean, now you can do some things, yeah, grateful you got AI, you can ask questions, minor things, but most people don't have the time, don't have the wherewithal.
4:31
SPEAKER_03: And so it's so much easier just to pay somebody.
4:33
SPEAKER_03: Everybody's making a little bit more money.
4:35
SPEAKER_04: And you said it, we're spoiled.
4:38
SPEAKER_04: My last house, I put one of those high-tech toilets in.
4:42
SPEAKER_04: Oh, yeah.
4:42
SPEAKER_04: That when you walk up to it, it lifts the lid.
4:44
SPEAKER_04: How nice.
4:45
SPEAKER_04: Okay, it's like pre-flushes.
4:47
SPEAKER_04: Your toilet stays clean.
4:49
SPEAKER_04: You do your business, it washes your butt, it dries you off.
4:53
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
4:53
SPEAKER_04: You stand up, you walk away, it flushes, and it shuts the lid automatically.
4:57
SPEAKER_04: That is pathetic.
4:58
SPEAKER_04: Anyway, so our new house, it's got three bathrooms on the main floor, okay, two half baths and the master bath.
5:06
SPEAKER_04: I put these toilets in every one of them, but when I ordered them, I didn't realize I didn't get the ones with the seat that lifts up.
5:14
SPEAKER_04: It does everything else.
5:15
SPEAKER_04: So I'll be getting up in the middle of the night and I walk over there and I'm like, huh, yeah, yeah, yeah, it doesn't lift.
5:23
SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, I've said it to my wife so many times.
5:27
SPEAKER_04: Why didn't we get the good toilets?
5:29
SPEAKER_04: I can't lift the seat up for God's sakes.
5:32
SPEAKER_04: What do you think I'm, you know?
5:35
SPEAKER_03: You think about Neanderthal?
5:37
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
5:40
SPEAKER_04: It's just one example of the way we get spoiled, but rotten, absolutely rotten.
5:45
SPEAKER_04: But yeah, there's a lot of stuff people need.
5:47
SPEAKER_04: Before we get into Mason, though, which we do actually need to talk with him.
5:51
SPEAKER_04: He's on the show at some point.
5:53
SPEAKER_04: Um, we got a question from uh an audience member that I thought we should take on.
6:00
SPEAKER_04: I work at a small business and I'm having to fight with the boss about knowing how the business finances are.
6:07
SPEAKER_04: I have a log on to the to the QuickBooks account, and I cannot make heads or tails of what's going on.
6:13
SPEAKER_04: What is some advice that you could lend me to help me in talking with them?
6:18
SPEAKER_04: Or what need to do?
6:19
SPEAKER_04: I think what I need to do, sorry, to make sure the company is not going under.
6:24
SPEAKER_04: Lastly, thank you both for providing so much knowledge to the small business community.
6:28
SPEAKER_04: Well, thank you for complimenting.
6:30
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
6:30
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
6:31
SPEAKER_04: That makes us want to answer your question.
6:33
SPEAKER_04: Sure.
6:34
SPEAKER_04: We don't even know who you are, but we like you.
6:36
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we like you a lot.
6:38
SPEAKER_03: You want to take that on, Eric?
6:40
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, I would say, first of all, you know, that that's a kind of a sticky situation because, you know, number one, the premise might be that maybe the owner doesn't want anybody to question what's going on in the business.
6:54
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
6:55
SPEAKER_03: You know, so you need to start there.
6:57
SPEAKER_03: Like, I mean, is this somebody that is going to want to even hear feedback?
7:01
SPEAKER_03: I mean, there's a lot of, you know, and I mean, the reason I say this is because you might be going, you know, spending time on something that is never going to develop into anything.
7:09
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
7:09
SPEAKER_03: And so you really need to kind of think about that.
7:11
SPEAKER_03: Now that's a personality thing that's a have a lot of dynamics in it, but I mean, a lot of times they they may not want to have attention to that.
7:19
SPEAKER_03: And it's just going to lead to nowhere.
7:22
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I mean, I think a lot, well, there's a lot of reasons for that.
7:25
SPEAKER_04: I mean, A, maybe they don't they think they know everything.
7:28
SPEAKER_04: They don't want any input.
7:29
SPEAKER_04: Could be.
7:30
SPEAKER_04: B, they're embarrassed by how much money they're taking out of the company compared to everybody else.
7:36
SPEAKER_04: Or C, they're embarrassed by how little money they're taking out of the company and they don't want anybody to know.
7:42
SPEAKER_04: So, yeah, those are all.
7:43
SPEAKER_03: And I'd say even B, like maybe they have a bigger plan and they're just putting money into it.
7:48
SPEAKER_03: And there's another reasons as to why they're I mean, all the there's a lot of things, right?
7:54
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, there's a lot of factors out there.
7:55
SPEAKER_04: That said, in my opinion, and you know, we've talked a little bit about this before.
8:00
SPEAKER_04: I mean, I think having really good open book management where you have some gauges on the critical performance metrics, and you don't have to say exactly how much money you personally take out of the business or what people's salaries are, but they should know if the business is performing or not.
8:17
SPEAKER_04: Right.
8:18
SPEAKER_04: And what makes it perform so they can act accordingly.
8:22
SPEAKER_04: I think.
8:23
SPEAKER_03: No, 100%.
8:24
SPEAKER_03: Because I mean, if they're receptive, if the owner's receptive and they want to make the business work better, yeah.
8:29
SPEAKER_03: Then this is actually a real I give a lot of kudos to somebody that wants to try to help improve the business.
8:33
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no kidding.
8:34
SPEAKER_03: And so I'm I would probably be welcome pretty well.
8:38
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and explain things to them.
8:40
SPEAKER_04: If they can't make heads or tails out of it, maybe that's a a problem.
8:45
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
8:45
SPEAKER_03: So I think really the appropriate thing is, hey, listen, I I have a desire to dig into this and I want to help the business.
8:52
SPEAKER_03: Are you, you know, are you okay with me doing that?
8:55
SPEAKER_03: And then and then once you, if you have that kind of green light, then I would my next step would be is I would spend a lot of time digging into this because you don't want to be flighty about this.
9:05
SPEAKER_03: Yes.
9:06
SPEAKER_03: You don't want to spend on a Saturday, you know, a few hours and then you come on Monday like with all these ideas and stuff.
9:11
SPEAKER_03: Because this stuff could be extremely complicated.
9:13
SPEAKER_03: It's gonna take time.
9:14
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and you and and and you need to learn, like you said.
9:17
SPEAKER_04: I mean, you probably need to sit down with the owner and ask them a lot of questions to understand the stuff and why things are the way they are.
9:25
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
9:26
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
9:27
SPEAKER_03: No doubt about it.
9:27
SPEAKER_03: And then and then once you get through all those talking points and stuff.
9:30
SPEAKER_03: I mean, if I guess here's the thing, like, you know, are you are you ready to eat what you take a bite out of?
9:36
SPEAKER_03: You know what I'm saying?
9:37
SPEAKER_03: Because this is not gonna be an easy walk in the park, right?
9:40
SPEAKER_03: You're not gonna have two conversations and you figured out a big solution.
9:43
SPEAKER_03: Now you're a hero.
9:44
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, it's gonna be in a grueling process.
9:46
SPEAKER_03: It's pull, I mean, are you ready to be pulled into that scenario?
9:49
SPEAKER_03: Because you're never gonna be stopped asking questions.
9:52
SPEAKER_03: And if you get more ownership of that, then you're gonna be into a finance world that just just know what you're getting yourself into.
9:59
SPEAKER_03: Know what door you're what what check are you really wanting to ride on this puppy?
10:03
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, what Pandora's box or anything.
10:05
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
10:06
SPEAKER_03: Because it's gonna be pretty consuming.
10:08
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
10:09
SPEAKER_03: Mason, you got any perspective on that?
10:10
SPEAKER_01: No, I I think I I I will definitely agree with a lot of what you said.
10:14
SPEAKER_01: I think it all comes down to also what their role within the company is or the business is.
10:20
SPEAKER_01: Um, they said that they had access to QuickBooks, so that probably makes it seem like they have some, they have some type of like um financial role within the company.
10:30
SPEAKER_01: And then I think like the the advice that I would have is like knowing um you had mentioned to set like gauges and like really knowing and hoping that they know where each category of spend needs to be within the within the business so they can tell easily where they might be going over or things like that.
10:49
SPEAKER_01: So like our all of our guys know what our labor rate needs to be at.
10:53
SPEAKER_01: They know where our marketing is.
10:55
SPEAKER_01: Um they don't necessarily know like the overhead and other things, but like just those two things, labor and marketing, that's 50% of all of our that's 50% of our of our cost right there.
11:07
SPEAKER_01: And just if one of those is over by any amount, then it's a pretty uh pretty quick indication where we're where we could be losing money quickly.
11:14
SPEAKER_01: So I would just say um breaking it down into categories so you can easily tell where you're where you're over or where you're under.
11:21
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's great.
11:22
SPEAKER_04: Hey, so Mason, tell us a little bit about this business of yours.
11:26
SPEAKER_04: Now I know you started it in 2021.
11:28
SPEAKER_04: You're a young guy.
11:29
SPEAKER_04: Were you like right out of school then or or in school?
11:32
SPEAKER_04: Or tell us about it.
11:33
SPEAKER_01: I started it when I was uh going to when I was in college.
11:36
SPEAKER_01: I went to the University of Kansas.
11:38
SPEAKER_01: Um, and when I was in school, um I had been working a job as a uh dispatcher for a for a transportation company up in Kansas City, and um I enjoyed it, um, but it was really hard with like school schedule changing so often.
11:53
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I kind of needed to find something that would work around my school schedule more, but I could also pay my way through college.
11:58
SPEAKER_01: So I started doing gutter cleaning on the side and did not have any um idea of kind of what kind of market it we had out here or just what it could turn into.
12:08
SPEAKER_01: I just needed enough money to pay the bills and um and realized like how easy it was to find work um with for a um like a blue-collar business without having to do I didn't didn't necessarily have to do a ton of marketing or a ton of that.
12:26
SPEAKER_01: It was just there was so much work there and it was like almost overwhelming.
12:30
SPEAKER_01: Um and then kind of um along the years, I didn't when I graduated, I had no, no desire to uh to keep it going.
12:40
SPEAKER_01: Um, had actually accepted a job offer um and was like a month away from starting the job after I graduated when it was just like it kind of was like another, it kind of just kept hitting me like, man, like there's so much work out here for this.
12:53
SPEAKER_01: Why would I stop doing this um if it's working so well?
12:56
SPEAKER_01: I'm not even really trying, like I'm not even putting a ton of effort into the business side of this.
13:01
SPEAKER_01: I'm just showing up and doing good work and that's it.
13:04
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then not trying to market it, not trying to do it, but I'm staying so busy.
13:09
SPEAKER_01: So then I went, I got a big contract um about uh a few weeks before the job was supposed to start.
13:14
SPEAKER_01: And so I just called and said, Hey, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna see what I can do with this.
13:19
SPEAKER_01: Um and that was back in 20, that was back in 2023.
13:23
SPEAKER_01: So really been about three years full go um on trying to grow it.
13:28
SPEAKER_03: What what job did you sacrifice?
13:30
SPEAKER_03: I mean, like what kind of job was it?
13:31
SPEAKER_03: Was that being like a career job?
13:33
SPEAKER_03: I mean, was it pretty well paid and stable?
13:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, for I mean, for the yeah, for for uh yeah, it would have been a um it was a medical sales job.
13:41
SPEAKER_01: So it would have just been selling like medical uh technology, um uh our software.
13:47
SPEAKER_04: Um yeah, so that yeah, that can be very lucrative.
13:50
SPEAKER_04: So do you you have a business degree?
13:52
SPEAKER_04: Is that it?
13:52
SPEAKER_04: I do, yes.
13:54
SPEAKER_04: Okay, and so I'm just curious.
13:56
SPEAKER_04: I also teach um in the college.
14:00
SPEAKER_04: Everybody knows you're a big business, you're so damn smart.
14:04
SPEAKER_03: I'm sorry.
14:05
SPEAKER_04: Oh man, come on.
14:07
SPEAKER_04: I'm just kidding.
14:08
SPEAKER_04: I'm kidding.
14:09
SPEAKER_04: Actually, I'm I'm not a big professor.
14:11
SPEAKER_04: I'm uh I'm I'm pretty low level in the hierarchy, but um, but nevertheless, um, so what did your mom and dad think of that though?
14:20
SPEAKER_04: I mean, did they feel like yeah, oh, you know, we we we uh got this wanted Mason to go get his degree so we can have a a a better life than we have or whatever.
14:33
SPEAKER_04: And then he gets a good job.
14:35
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, he gets a great job offer, and then the guy's cleaning gutters, you know.
14:41
SPEAKER_04: What did they do that to you or not?
14:43
SPEAKER_01: No, actually, my parents were like really encouraging me to to keep doing the business.
14:48
SPEAKER_01: Like um, all my friends and friends, my parents both owned a small business, so uh kind of like that.
14:57
SPEAKER_01: In the young child, like, hey, like if you want to do this, the opportunity is there, like you can do really whatever you want.
15:03
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so they both my dad growing up is like, there's nothing better than working for yourself.
15:07
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so they were obviously like I was more scared from the risk side of things, like, hey, what if it doesn't work out?
15:13
SPEAKER_01: Um, but they were like, just do it.
15:16
SPEAKER_01: And if it doesn't, then you can go get a job.
15:18
SPEAKER_04: Well, I mean, the good thing about your business, what's I mean, at least at that point in time, what's the real risk?
15:23
SPEAKER_04: I mean, doesn't take a lot of equipment, right, to do.
15:26
SPEAKER_04: And so you have a whole lot of commitment there.
15:30
SPEAKER_04: Now, you decided to grow this business though.
15:33
SPEAKER_04: Yes.
15:33
SPEAKER_04: What made you decide that and where is it now?
15:37
SPEAKER_01: So I was just, yeah, basically like I don't, I know that I personally do not want to be up on roofs for the rest of my life.
15:44
SPEAKER_01: Uh, that's where I was kind of like, I don't want to be the one out there doing it.
15:47
SPEAKER_01: Um, nothing against our guys are amazing, but I know that when I'm 50 years old, um, that's not where I want to be.
15:55
SPEAKER_01: So I knew that I had to figure out a way to to scale and to grow it in a way that's profitable, but also can pay well and to do all of those things.
16:05
SPEAKER_01: And that's what I've kind of been working on.
16:07
SPEAKER_01: Um, right now we have we have eight technicians.
16:11
SPEAKER_01: Um most of them are full-time.
16:12
SPEAKER_01: We have a full-time sales guy and a full-time office staff, uh, office admin.
16:17
SPEAKER_01: Um, so right now we're keeping a lot of guys busy.
16:21
SPEAKER_01: Um, and then like one of the things that really would really pride myself in is just being able to offer a place where the guys that work with me can make really good money, um, provide for their families because some of them have kids, some of them have families.
16:35
SPEAKER_01: Um, one of them just bought a house.
16:37
SPEAKER_01: Um, and so like being able to do that, being able to provide them benefits, but also run a profitable business um that's continuing to grow.
16:45
SPEAKER_01: And we are continuing to grow.
16:46
SPEAKER_01: Um, we've grown for the last three years, we've grown by anywhere between 50 and 100 percent uh year over year.
16:52
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
16:52
SPEAKER_03: Good.
16:52
SPEAKER_03: Hey, Mason, how old are you?
16:54
SPEAKER_03: If you don't mind me asking, uh 27.
16:56
SPEAKER_03: 27.
16:57
SPEAKER_03: So you started this when you're 23 ish, I guess, somewhere around there.
17:01
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
17:02
SPEAKER_03: Something like that.
17:03
SPEAKER_03: So, but you you you said something that's interesting.
17:06
SPEAKER_03: You're 23, 24, and you're like, I don't want to be on top of roofs for the rest of my life, but yet you're at the prime age to be on top of roofs for a while, right?
17:15
SPEAKER_03: And so, I mean, are you are you off the roofs now?
17:19
SPEAKER_03: I mean, completely and have been for a while or what?
17:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I haven't I the um I didn't do a ton last year, but I haven't done a single I haven't been on one this year.
17:29
SPEAKER_01: Um to maybe like uh maybe to do some training with some guys, but I haven't done I've been the the the terminology people use would be out of the truck.
17:38
SPEAKER_01: I've been out of the truck um uh all this year.
17:41
SPEAKER_03: So your technicians that are are that are in the truck, right?
17:44
SPEAKER_03: I mean, what's that what's that demographic type of uh I mean like what are you what are they are they young as well or I mean are they older as also?
17:54
SPEAKER_03: I mean what's what's going on there?
17:56
SPEAKER_01: They're all uh they're all college age or between 20 and 30.
18:00
SPEAKER_01: Um some of them are in school, some of them school didn't work out for.
18:04
SPEAKER_01: Um couple, yeah, and so they're they're all in the 20s um and just love to work hard.
18:10
SPEAKER_01: Um and make good money.
18:12
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, because that's I mean, it's not easy work, right?
18:15
SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's hot, it's kind of filthy, a little day, I mean, little scary, little sketchy, I'm sure, man.
18:21
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
18:21
SPEAKER_03: I remember I remember, man, it's funny.
18:23
SPEAKER_03: I was thinking about this this other day.
18:24
SPEAKER_03: I had my old house out of Fab, you know, the one you went to a long time ago.
18:28
SPEAKER_04: I was getting up there to Are you talking the big house when you're okay?
18:32
SPEAKER_04: The next the real house that you kept.
18:33
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
18:34
SPEAKER_03: Right.
18:34
SPEAKER_03: And it's not that big, Mason, right?
18:36
SPEAKER_03: And I get up on uh I had fixed my like some of the the uh stuck hole on my chimney is kind of cracking off, and I get my ladder out there and I start climbing up on that roof, and I'll never forget I got to the top of that ladder and I just froze.
18:51
SPEAKER_04: I don't like heights either.
18:53
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I was like okay, this is some people aren't bothered.
18:57
SPEAKER_04: No, I know, and some of us are so much respect for that.
19:00
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's like how I mean, like, it's great for them, but anyway, like I've never froze like that.
19:04
SPEAKER_03: And I stayed there for 10 minutes trying to power through, and I just never did.
19:07
SPEAKER_03: I just ended up going down and called somebody.
19:09
SPEAKER_03: So yeah, I mean, I got a lot of respect for folks that get out there and make that happen.
19:13
SPEAKER_03: And so right now, I mean, what what do you think?
19:15
SPEAKER_03: So you pulled your you got yourself out of the truck, and I mean, are you like really like when did you start focusing on marketing or fine?
19:22
SPEAKER_03: I mean, all the above and trying to do operations, make things more efficient, lower costs.
19:28
SPEAKER_03: What was your do sales?
19:29
SPEAKER_03: What was your big your first step?
19:32
SPEAKER_01: Like when you decided what I've been like really trying to work on this year is trying to retain customers better, um, and working on selling like plans.
19:43
SPEAKER_01: That's the big kind of term, that's the big thing right now is like reoccurring work because truly the business isn't worth anything if next year if I wasn't here and we don't have anything on contracts.
19:57
SPEAKER_01: So that's what I've been working on this year's um building contracts, building service plans.
20:02
SPEAKER_01: So we know, hey, next year we're gonna have before we even go into the year, we already have X amount of money already on the schedule.
20:09
SPEAKER_01: Um and then every customer that comes in, we know that we're gonna sell a plan to a percentage of them and just kind of starting to grow it rather than having to like in the last few years, like we're hunting so much that if we're only retaining 40% of those customers more than once a year, then what are like what's the point?
20:27
SPEAKER_01: Um so that's what I've been working on a lot this year.
20:29
SPEAKER_03: Can we stay in that topic for a minute?
20:31
SPEAKER_03: Because that's a lot easier said than done.
20:33
SPEAKER_03: I hear people talk about in our models recurring.
20:36
SPEAKER_03: Recurring revenue.
20:37
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, everybody wants recurring revenue valued more highly.
21:02
SPEAKER_03: And there's the pricing strategy on it is extreme, it can be really complex.
21:08
SPEAKER_03: The forecasting, the business modeling, like you know, all those things, and then you you got a lot of tools in the retention side, you know, like I mean, give give the listeners an idea about how much time you've devoted into this subscription model.
21:23
SPEAKER_01: I mean, this has been really what I've been working on.
21:25
SPEAKER_01: I've joined, um, I've gone to uh like flown out and spent time out of state with like other business owners that are trying to do the same thing.
21:34
SPEAKER_01: I had a an hour call from 10 to 11.
21:36
SPEAKER_01: I was on a call before we hopped on this with some other business owners across the country trying to do the same thing um for the same businesses.
21:43
SPEAKER_01: It's been what I've been working on every week.
21:46
SPEAKER_01: I mean, since January.
21:47
SPEAKER_01: That's like that's going into the year, like this is our main plan.
21:50
SPEAKER_01: We want to have X amount of people signed up for these plans.
21:54
SPEAKER_01: And we've we did really good at that.
21:56
SPEAKER_01: And so now we're trying to take the plans to a whole nother level and offer.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: a more inclusive um full home maintenance program.
22:04
SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of where where we're taking it next and well with selling gutter cleaning plans or window cleaning plans.
22:10
SPEAKER_01: Now we want to sell like a full home maintenance plan.
22:12
SPEAKER_01: And that's kind of where we're going that next.
22:14
SPEAKER_04: So you're broadening beyond the gutters then you mentioned a little bit, yes.
22:18
SPEAKER_01: But like I don't want to get too too far like out of our lane.
22:22
SPEAKER_01: Like we're not electricians, we're not plumbers, we're not like we're not handymen.
22:27
SPEAKER_01: Um we don't want to get too far out of the lane, but there's a few things maybe we can do here and there to to help uh give everyone that we work for a better experience.
22:39
SPEAKER_03: Do you do you have a branding problem with that though?
22:41
SPEAKER_03: I mean you're Edwards gutter cleaning right yeah it kind of defines what you have yeah I might have struck a nerve with you what are you what's your thought process for sure.
22:52
SPEAKER_01: Um I've went back and forth about changing I wish I wouldn't have named I wish I wouldn't have named it after myself.
22:59
SPEAKER_01: I wish I wouldn't have why why um I just from what I've seen is like and I guess all the advice that I've been given is like businesses because I mean I don't necessarily have any desire to sell it now but I would like to build a business that's worth something.
23:15
SPEAKER_01: And when you have the owner's name in it, I've seen that it kind of can affect it a little bit um and then it can just affect the brand and everything like that.
23:24
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if it's uh the the biggest issue but there's that and then yeah gutter cleaning is in the name we're trying to scale up the window cleaning side of things right now.
23:32
SPEAKER_01: We also do a ton of power washing and we also do a ton of Christmas lights.
23:36
SPEAKER_01: So those are three things I've went back and forth about changing the name but right now the gutter cleaning meaning in the name helps us so much.
23:45
SPEAKER_04: So we've kind of um I think eventually I will change the name but for right now um I we're not going to I I I would make a suggestion that you look into I mean you could have Edwards window washing and ever Edwards power washing as well and just put it all underneath Edwards home services.
24:04
SPEAKER_04: And so then you've got all of them and you don't you can market any one of them they're all just DBAs okay I mean so it's not either or in my mind but I do think Eric brought up a really good point there.
24:18
SPEAKER_04: I I I I encourage my students when they're starting these kinds of businesses to think about that.
24:24
SPEAKER_04: Yeah do I want to put myself like for example here everybody names themselves razorback hog something.
24:31
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
24:32
SPEAKER_04: It's like the whole world doesn't necessarily know that if you want to be national yeah like if you if you were Jayhawks window washing or whatever because you're a KU guy and you Jayhawks fans are insane and rabid um it and you know that's true Mason.
24:51
SPEAKER_04: No it it would define though.
24:53
SPEAKER_04: Yeah you know like maybe you would yeah it's limiting.
24:56
SPEAKER_03: So I mean but but I think that you know when it I don't know not that you're asking I mean but I the interesting dialogue because I do think it's one of those things like that doesn't have really a a very specific or you know uh absolute answer to the question.
25:14
SPEAKER_03: But in my mind I immediately think is gutter cleaning like when I look at those sectors power washing gutter cleaning Christmas lights and window washing what's the competition set out there?
25:27
SPEAKER_03: Because if you lead with gutter cleaning and it's an easy upsell, right?
25:32
SPEAKER_03: Yeah and and so if you if you're sitting there in a market that has very low competition and then even like kind of as you scale out to other areas if you led with gutter cleaning that's where you're gonna get most of the leads I think you're right and then you're upselling when you're there and then you kind of sneak all that other stuff on the back.
25:50
SPEAKER_03: That other stuff there's a lot more competition for than there is gutter cleaning.
25:54
SPEAKER_04: I mean I am constantly getting hit up by people who want to do Christmas lights or whatever.
25:58
SPEAKER_04: Aren't you?
25:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah yeah yeah and I see a lot I see power anybody can like it's almost like the easy the the way the easy entry to the market you're right on with that what do you think man I I totally agree with what you both said um and I think that's exactly why I haven't changed the name yet because we yeah we are dominating everything gutter cleaning and then we it's our job to upsell on window cleaning or those types of things but I agree there's so many people entering the market there's so many new window cleaners enter the market there's so many new power washing companies all over there's not a lot of gutter cleaning companies like so that that like that brand is gutter cleaning um and so that I mean that's the reason I haven't changed it I mean so really because we're doing so well with that.
26:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah um until we can be known enough that like oh these guys handle everything and and we are really known across the KC area I probably won't even consider changing the name um or or even doing what something like what Mark said about like hey let's build another thing a DBA that's advanced window cleaning power wash that kind of thing.
27:06
SPEAKER_03: Yeah because I mean I mean man you might have something going on there because like the you know like the the power washing the window cleaning and the Christmas lights to me are like things that I don't really think about.
27:18
SPEAKER_03: You know they're just kind of like oh yeah you can wash my windows while you're here I mean that makes economical sense to me.
27:24
SPEAKER_03: And so like your all your marketing behind the gutter is kind of like those follow-up questions, you know, and you can have little flyers that everybody has with them and you put it on your trucks and vehicles that you also do that.
27:37
SPEAKER_03: It's kind of like these it's an also thing.
27:39
SPEAKER_03: Yeah but you're just you're you're bolstering your subscription plan as they add to it's encouraging your monthly revenue people are you you've fended your competitors off because I'd imagine the gutter clean is probably you know it's honestly it's not the most sexy exciting thing.
27:54
SPEAKER_03: So a lot of people won't even think about getting into it you know it's hard to find somebody to do it.
28:00
SPEAKER_04: Yeah no fear really I mean normally like the only way we can do get it done is have our gutter installers that we work with a lot coming out of the general contracting side.
28:11
SPEAKER_04: Yeah and they would probably just do it for us because they know they get all our gutter installation jobs.
28:17
SPEAKER_04: It's really what they want to do.
28:18
SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
28:19
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
28:20
SPEAKER_04: But yeah you're right about that I mean but one thing though you don't think of window washing is I do.
28:27
SPEAKER_04: I mean I look out my windows and they look like crap.
28:29
SPEAKER_04: I mean I do though I mean I'm I'm different than a lot of people I just in that new house of yours with the view and all the windows you got dude you're gonna be washing those windows my wife notices it or she just takes care of it.
28:42
SPEAKER_03: I mean that you're gonna want to have clean windows out there you can you're on top of the world yeah and they're gonna get dirty a lot of dust coming in yeah I'll I'll probably be cleaning windows.
28:52
SPEAKER_04: Yeah well I don't know about that you'll want somebody else to do it you're not gonna get on ladders to get those big ass windows they don't freeze yeah maybe I don't know big so anyway Mason though back on your business now okay where are you gonna go with this thing?
29:07
SPEAKER_04: What it's gonna take to really ramp it up to a significant scale and and that's one question.
29:13
SPEAKER_04: And secondly how do you keep good people working in a business like yours when really I could go in the gutter cleaning business today you know I got some big ladders over at my house I got a pickup truck I strap them on there and I I print up on my home printer some flyers and dude I'm in business it takes nothing.
29:35
SPEAKER_04: Yeah how do you keep good people there when it takes the the barrier to entry is so low.
29:40
SPEAKER_01: Um so your first question like in goal how do we scale this up I think it's just kind of what we talked about whether it's just plans the more plans that we have the more uh annual recurring revenue that we have um it's just more predictable and if we continue to grow exponentially at that um and we know that hey every lead we come in a certain percent of those we're gonna convert to plans and every plan year over year our churn rate is going to be less than the less than uh the the the new conversion rate then we know that we're gonna continue to go up fast.
30:12
SPEAKER_01: Uh and then uh how do we keep we pay our guys better than anyone in the area we have better guys I mean all of our technicians I can say that are I'm so proud of our team like every single one of them is going to be at or better um a higher caliber than maybe a random person saying hey I'm gonna go start this on my own our team is so great we pay our guys really well and they've stuck around I mean we've had since I started two of the guys that I mean my first ever hire both my two first ever hires still like still here um they they stick around long um and we were able to pay them well and I mean our team is just amazing.
30:57
SPEAKER_01: I I would say that's what it is our team's just amazing and I don't think that anyone in our area can compete like would can can compete with our team because they're so great.
31:05
SPEAKER_04: I guess the one of the keys in a business like that is just keeping those people busy all the time.
31:10
SPEAKER_04: They don't all know how to market or sell.
31:12
SPEAKER_03: Sure.
31:12
SPEAKER_04: But they do know if they got work to do every single day they can get paid for and that's probably a at the core of it.
31:19
SPEAKER_03: Yeah the and well and and too I mean like it with any home service I mean the professionalism that when people come out to work on the property is a big deal.
31:28
SPEAKER_03: It is like in addition to paying them well I mean that they're probably behaving well is a big deal in representing well the brand.
31:36
SPEAKER_03: Do you put them in do they have like consistent branded uniforms and stuff like that?
31:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah they're in uniforms they're in wrapped vehicles uh the processes are dialed in uh working visibility baby yeah yeah the vehicles are amazing I mean and just from everywhere from the start from the time we arrive at a job to the time we leave if the customer just the little things if the customer is not home people always wonder like hey how do I know that you guys actually did a good job up on the roof our guys are going to take photos of every gutter and they're gonna take a video up there too so you have a bit you have a face for the for the for the brand and they're gonna say hey Mrs.
32:11
SPEAKER_01: Smith thank you so much for letting me clean out your gutters today these are a couple things that you need to notice and we send them to every single people love that because most time people aren't home you never network just little things like that.
32:22
SPEAKER_04: Well or even if you are home you don't know that they did a good job.
32:26
SPEAKER_04: Sure I can't see in all my gutters in my house they could have done a half assed job and charged me for it.
32:32
SPEAKER_04: Yeah sure I'd have no way of knowing I won't I'll never know yeah so I think that's great.
32:38
SPEAKER_04: That is a really smart thing to do.
32:40
SPEAKER_04: I love that you know there are other companies out there and we've talked about them before but like Pink's window washing I mean they're doing the same thing in a way they've got branded vehicles they put people in uniforms they've got great scheduling process the people are cool that work there the people they send out young smart people like I've had college students that were some of them were Walton college students come to my house and I've had them do multiple houses.
33:06
SPEAKER_03: We were outside the other day talking in the back of the studio yeah the pink skies come by to wash some windows of the building and one of the dudes is like hey I know you and they're like yeah you just did my oh yeah you know a commercial at my house yeah yeah yeah they they they remembered you and everything right was really cool.
33:22
SPEAKER_04: But that's but they're having those kind of people like you know and and they are having tremendous success with that model.
33:29
SPEAKER_04: Now they're franchising have you thought about that at all?
33:32
SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah not it's not anywhere like on the near future but um yeah pinks is like they have an amazing brand like their their marketing is amazing um they're just a very memorable um like memorable brand like they're doing what they're doing is so cool and like there's a lot like that I learned from just watching them from a distance.
33:54
SPEAKER_01: And like as far as like us franchising like not right now like that's not like on the mind but at the same time like everything that right now that we're building and the systems we're putting into place is for the purpose of hey whatever I want to do down the line is a possibility.
34:11
SPEAKER_01: So like right now that's not something we're thinking about but building it and scaling it in a way that could support something like that is is kind of like always top of mind.
34:21
SPEAKER_03: So you're saying that as you think about like your recurring model, your pricing you're thinking about the videos that your team takes your branding all this stuff in your brain you're you're building systemized processes that that will allow you to that you can scale that out in case you ever want to make that decision.
34:43
SPEAKER_01: Like everything works very poorly that's smart yeah and then like on the back end all the technology that we use or our quoting processes or everything is just built in a way that we can just should be able to just place it wherever we want.
34:58
SPEAKER_03: You know folks don't like man that that to me is one of the most brutal things about building a business in today's time is what softwares to use.
35:07
SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah it's so many options.
35:09
SPEAKER_03: Yeah and how do you integrate all these things how do they work together?
35:13
SPEAKER_03: Yes do they work together?
35:14
SPEAKER_03: Does the data stay clean?
35:16
SPEAKER_03: Is it accurate?
35:17
SPEAKER_03: Yeah you know and then you start implementing AI against it you know making things more efficient you know I mean like what's your how do you go about that Mason?
35:25
SPEAKER_03: Like I mean like how how does your brain work as you yeah how do you find them and how much time are you spending doing this stuff?
35:32
SPEAKER_01: I would say that like this year like half my between the the the recurring stuff and then half of it's been on we've switched over anytime you switch systems it's the biggest like pain on the planet.
35:44
SPEAKER_01: We switched systems this year we switched our phone systems once already this year.
35:49
SPEAKER_01: We're about to switch them again in the next couple of weeks um it's the worst thing ever um but I think that it's so hard because there's not a single phone system that's that that's what I was talking with somebody else about yesterday.
36:01
SPEAKER_01: There's not a great phone system that is amazing at texting and calling and integrates.
36:05
SPEAKER_01: There's one that's really good at texting but it doesn't integrate well.
36:08
SPEAKER_01: There's one that's really good at calling but it does integrate a little better but they don't do both.
36:12
SPEAKER_01: So right now we're trying to build like our own like on the back end that we can do them both together uh but it's been really difficult.
36:20
SPEAKER_04: I I I I I caution you on that one I I'm a big believer in buying products that solve my problem instead of trying to create my own software yeah solution I mean I'm just saying I've had bad experience with it 68 years old I mean remember when we were doing our our online training initiative it's also bad but I'm with you though too Mason like you tried all the offshelf products right you've done it you've done it both ways and sometimes you have to get down that cus of development but man it's also still a danger zone right oh it is like it's yeah and maybe I said wrong we're not creating something new but we're using we're pulling a different couple different products and intertwining them together to make them work better together.
37:08
SPEAKER_03: Yeah yeah and that's you know man and and on that speak like even like the API connections that whole middle that whole middleware type of you know stitching these systems together is is a brutal beast of itself right because you can have bugs and things break on that like it's just the problem is is is just absolutely it it is it is a huge problem.
37:30
SPEAKER_03: And I think that it's so incredibly important for any aspiring entrepreneur to understand when they get into this stuff like there is not a simple solution to Mason's point.
37:43
SPEAKER_03: Because you you you get something you you're like man it's working one can of software that you buy and it's all done.
37:49
SPEAKER_03: Yeah it's yeah that it doesn't exist.
37:51
SPEAKER_03: It does not exist and so like I think the thing is is like beware if you're trying to start a business like Mason's or any business there needs to be somebody the the and Mason's taking this role is the person that's kind of like watching over these systems to try to support their people that are out in the field.
38:10
SPEAKER_03: Like that is a is is five jobs no it really is capacity standpoint.
38:16
SPEAKER_04: And then making sure financing rolls into it you can read the books you know how you're doing I mean man it's great I mean well in his case I mean scheduling and estimating are two really big deals I want to I want to ask you about estimating by the way because I don't know what you charge but let's just say it cost me 350 or 400 bucks to get my gutters cleaned.
38:38
SPEAKER_04: Okay and you know I'm just throwing that number out there maybe more maybe less I don't know but it's it's really hard to have a business where you have to go out to somebody's house physically and go, it'll cost you 350 or 400 I mean think about your marketing time and what you're gonna make on that job.
38:57
SPEAKER_04: It's like uh uh I mean are you using like Google Earth or whatever to just like look property tax records or something other way that you don't have to go to the customer's house.
39:10
SPEAKER_01: We have two different things we can use um our office will just basically yeah Google Earth it we're gonna pull the the house size off Zillow Redfin or whatever plug it in she'll plug the square footage in answer three questions size of the like uh two stories three stories steep roof yes no this this and this and then it spits out a number for for her okay so we don't need to go out there in person I agree for a first a ticket that's three hundred dollars if we spend an hour out there estimating it and talking to you there's a lot of the the margins are like now very raised thin and most of the time people that are calling for gutter cleaning because it is low ticket people are just wanting it an answer now the faster we can get a a price to them the sooner they're gonna say yes.
39:56
SPEAKER_01: So we we quote everything over the phone um majority of everything over the phone.
40:01
SPEAKER_03: Have you experienced a lot of like bad quoting and you get out to the job and it's like twice three times as long and then if you do do that what do you do?
40:10
SPEAKER_03: Do you eat it or I mean like what policy yeah we just eat it.
40:15
SPEAKER_01: It happens sometimes.
40:17
SPEAKER_01: I mean truly the only way to really know is if we got up on the roof and saw like how bad are these gutters actually because some people it's like hey they say they get it done regularly but that to them means every four years.
40:32
SPEAKER_01: And so there's like a farm growing in each other.
40:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah right um and the other thing like our commission structure we pay all of our guys a performance pay so they're getting a percentage of each job.
40:45
SPEAKER_01: So it's we're not losing money on the job.
40:49
SPEAKER_01: They might make less on the job and that's kind of like I guess like hey it looks bad on us but for every job that they that takes way longer than than is is is expected we have four more that they finish really efficiently and we finish faster than expected.
41:03
SPEAKER_01: So it all evens out.
41:04
SPEAKER_03: Yeah that's good I and I appreciate that philosophy because man I you get you know this again goes back into professional managers versus entrepreneurs right if you are a professional manager and you've been training in big corporate life and you try to start a business the first thing they're gonna do is oh well you you can't they would go out to say we cannot do this job because you just ate up my margin.
41:28
SPEAKER_03: So therefore I have to reject you as a customer.
41:31
SPEAKER_03: That's so true.
41:32
SPEAKER_03: But as an entrepreneur, no dude okay it's fine I ate it my bad I learned but I am not going to lose that customer.
41:39
SPEAKER_04: Listen that is so true.
41:40
SPEAKER_04: I just bought three new cars yesterday from our buddy Matt Lewis.
41:45
SPEAKER_04: Yeah okay so you did it three new vehicles yeah you're saying you're going to like I did I bought three new ones and um anyway so one of those vehicles though was advertised by um the dealership and it I had a question.
42:02
SPEAKER_04: I saw it on the lot and I looked it up online and I'm like how can this price be what they're showing online because it had$10,000 worth of other stuff added to it at the dealership.
42:14
SPEAKER_04: And you know it's the stuff that Eric likes like the giant 3510s and the and the lift kit and all that stuff okay and so anyway I I asked um if that was included or I mean or how much extra it was or if that was included.
42:29
SPEAKER_04: I was told that was included well it turns out they actually did make a mistake on their website.
42:35
SPEAKER_04: And Matt Lewis told me about that and said that they honored that deal for three people in one day which cost them a lot of money.
42:46
SPEAKER_04: But he said you know what I don't want to be that dealership it's like well you know actually that's not the price that we put on there that's got the extra he goes I just said guys you messed up we got to eat it okay and go on from there.
43:01
SPEAKER_04: All right it's like I think that's so smart then you don't alienate any of your customers all those customers are like wow this is great I love these people I'll come back and buy 10 cars from them up with my life okay it it's like you can't the that reductionistic thinking yeah is a big problem in in business education.
43:23
SPEAKER_04: And like you said it because it translates into corporate America real well.
43:27
SPEAKER_03: 100% and and it in corporate I mean like I'm not like you should be like that in corporate America you have to be you have to be but yeah I mean Walmart's relentless about stuff like that.
43:37
SPEAKER_03: They have to be but like every square inch of shelf real estate we've got to maximize the return on right but you can't live in that and then have an idea to go out in business and then take that that's one of those things that don't transfer well at all.
43:50
SPEAKER_03: It transfers well for planning maybe but when you get your feet on the ground and you got to take care of a customer.
43:56
SPEAKER_03: That that customer is your lifeline.
43:58
SPEAKER_03: I'm it's I'm totally People this um I have lost probably 10 times the amount of money that I've ever made in business.
44:07
SPEAKER_03: Guarantee it by little mistakes, bad, you know, misquoting, yeah, you know, not not under you know, uh uh team underestimating, yeah, underestimating team failure, right?
44:19
SPEAKER_03: My failure, sure, right?
44:20
SPEAKER_03: And I've just eaten it.
44:21
SPEAKER_03: And in the amount of rework that I've done, especially in our industry where it's all like marketing related, you know, kind of service-based type type stuff.
44:29
SPEAKER_03: I have eaten so much.
44:31
SPEAKER_03: And I have done, I have made, have, have had so much make good projects that all my time.
44:37
SPEAKER_04: The benefit is you got a great reputation.
44:39
SPEAKER_04: 100% people love working with you, clients and employees both.
44:43
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
44:43
SPEAKER_04: And so that's the thing.
44:45
SPEAKER_04: It's like the other day we ordered a bunch of food like a week or 10 days ago from um from uh oh a a uh Panera bread.
44:55
SPEAKER_04: Okay, and so they deliver all the stuff, and one of the soups is missing.
45:01
SPEAKER_04: And so I call the store, and this is an example of how not to do it.
45:06
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
45:07
SPEAKER_04: Panera bread does their own delivery, by the way.
45:09
SPEAKER_04: So it's not, you can't blame it on DoorDash or whatever.
45:14
SPEAKER_04: So I call, I get this woman, I tell her everything.
45:17
SPEAKER_04: She's like, Well, I have to discuss this with a manager, and somebody will call you back.
45:21
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
45:22
SPEAKER_04: Instead of saying, Hey, we'll stick another soup out there to you right away, or here's a code for 20 bucks off next time.
45:29
SPEAKER_04: We're really sorry.
45:30
SPEAKER_04: None of that.
45:31
SPEAKER_04: I'll have to talk to a manager in him calling.
45:33
SPEAKER_04: Manager doesn't freaking call me.
45:36
SPEAKER_04: All right.
45:36
SPEAKER_04: So then I get and send an email out, uh, or no, I put a review out, and I thought this was a bad way to handle it.
45:44
SPEAKER_04: Then the manager sends me an email and says, hey, next time, do uh we'll give you this or that.
45:49
SPEAKER_04: But your employees need to be empowered to understand that client or customer satisfaction is the goal.
45:58
SPEAKER_04: Okay, and not to throw everything back at Mason over there.
46:02
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
46:02
SPEAKER_04: It's like, well, can you do these gutters on my garage too?
46:06
SPEAKER_04: Well, we didn't have them in the original quote.
46:09
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
46:10
SPEAKER_04: Let me call Mason.
46:11
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
46:11
SPEAKER_04: Let me call Mason and we'll see about that.
46:14
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
46:15
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46:23
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46:26
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46:30
SPEAKER_03: What do you think, Mason?
46:31
SPEAKER_03: Are we right as hell?
46:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's right.
46:33
SPEAKER_01: I mean, yeah, it's like, hey, we can figure out some of these questions.
46:36
SPEAKER_01: You don't need to you don't need to call me for like just ask yourself what you think you should do and do it.
46:41
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
46:42
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
46:42
SPEAKER_04: But I think a lot of people in companies are scared to do that.
46:45
SPEAKER_04: I guess the owners are such control freaks or the managers they work for, or they just don't understand the overall context of things.
46:54
SPEAKER_03: Uh I mean, I think it's, you know, it starts with leadership, like with Mason, right?
46:58
SPEAKER_03: Like if his perspective is yeah, if he demonstrates that, right?
47:02
SPEAKER_03: And people learn and see that, and then he might ask a question and it's oh, well, what do they want?
47:06
SPEAKER_03: Do it, get it done, make the customer happy.
47:08
SPEAKER_03: Always repeating that, that value across the organization is the biggest deal.
47:13
SPEAKER_03: What do you think, Mason?
47:14
SPEAKER_01: No, I would totally agree.
47:16
SPEAKER_01: Um our guys, I mean, that's just that's one of the things that really um our guys do really good at.
47:22
SPEAKER_01: They can make decisions on their own.
47:23
SPEAKER_01: They don't need to call me, they don't need to call the office for for little things like that.
47:26
SPEAKER_01: They they're empowered to and are capable of making those calls by themselves um and then moving on from there.
47:37
SPEAKER_01: Uh, there's a lot of things they don't need to call call for permission on.
47:40
SPEAKER_03: So, Mason, I got a good question for you.
47:42
SPEAKER_03: How much capital did you raise?
47:43
SPEAKER_03: And did you go to a bunch of VC firms and do a bunch of pitch decks and made sure you raised five million dollars so that you had a really secure business?
47:51
SPEAKER_04: And sell 95% of your business, by the way.
47:54
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, or or maybe you only sold 20%, but there's like a thousand clawback legal terms in there.
47:59
SPEAKER_03: And you know, you got people telling you what to do everyone.
48:02
SPEAKER_03: Or did you are you just an entrepreneur?
48:06
SPEAKER_03: What what what's your story?
48:07
SPEAKER_01: I had to raise a little less than that.
48:09
SPEAKER_01: Uh no, I didn't.
48:10
SPEAKER_01: No, I mean, that's a good thing with so many of these um like starting like so many of these blue collar and trade jobs.
48:17
SPEAKER_01: No, you don't have to raise, you can start start from nothing, like a couple bucks and and go to Lowe's.
48:24
SPEAKER_03: Bootstrap it, baby.
48:26
SPEAKER_03: So you let me ask you this.
48:28
SPEAKER_03: Did you so it sounds to me, Mason, like you took the greatest form of capital on planet earth, which is uh customer payments.
48:37
SPEAKER_01: Customer payments and my my own time, my own time and sweat.
48:42
SPEAKER_03: People need to realize that I I get so flipping pissed off nowadays, Mark Mason.
48:49
SPEAKER_03: When we're we have uh fantasized entrepreneurship to the point to where nobody understands you do what Mason does.
49:00
SPEAKER_03: Mason's got a growing business that has great opportunity.
49:03
SPEAKER_03: He's learning, he's fixing all the small little whole problems that no one else understands.
49:09
SPEAKER_03: He's going to market, he's considering his brand, he's adapting, evolving, using tech, empowering his people, paying people well, has a purpose-driven mindset about this.
49:20
SPEAKER_03: And you started with your time, and you went out there and you talked to people and you got a check and you rendered service first, got the check, yeah, and you just keep stacking and stacking, and now you you you are a true business person.
49:34
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, not some freaking professional shark tank, freaking pitch decker that's putting your life on the line and making everyone else rich.
49:42
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
49:43
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's a the Shark Tank is is giving people such an unrealistic idea about how things really work.
49:49
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and then and then in our local communities doing it.
49:51
SPEAKER_03: I'm sure in Kansas City there's all kinds of pitch deck competitions that everybody goes to, and you're and you're telling all these young folks like you gotta come and man, I you know, you had a really great presentation, but you know, you really need to go back and work on your numbers, and I might invest in you.
50:07
SPEAKER_03: Oh, and by the way, I'm gonna give you$25,000 and I went 60% of the company.
50:12
SPEAKER_03: And if you're not successful at that, you're not a good entrepreneur.
50:15
SPEAKER_03: An entrepreneur fails because he's all he's doing or she's doing is running back and forth to the investors, trying to make them happy.
50:22
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
50:23
SPEAKER_03: And I'm sitting behind a room and I got two million dollars sitting over here in my mutual funds that I'm ready to disperse out to help the land.
50:31
SPEAKER_03: And then I get invited to go speaking engagements, and and then the the councils and the chambers are all are hopping me up and I'm getting to speak and talk about how to do business.
50:41
SPEAKER_04: You're the you're a big part of the entrepreneurial ecosystem now.
50:45
SPEAKER_04: Love that term.
50:47
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
50:48
SPEAKER_04: Well, it's like, you know, I it's so true.
50:50
SPEAKER_04: I mean, I talk with contractors all the time.
50:53
SPEAKER_04: I got a lot of friends, you know.
50:54
SPEAKER_04: I was a general contractor, you know that.
50:56
SPEAKER_04: Okay.
50:57
SPEAKER_04: And and anyway, so a lot of course, a lot of the subs I deal with these days are Mexican people.
51:04
SPEAKER_04: And I love um, I I some of my subs I've had really long-standing relationships with.
51:10
SPEAKER_04: I went this last weekend to a quincanera for my um my uh concrete sub's um 15-year-old daughter.
51:20
SPEAKER_04: And you know, they're huge parties.
51:22
SPEAKER_04: I mean, he spent 40 grand on this party.
51:24
SPEAKER_04: Are you with me?
51:26
SPEAKER_04: No, but I was talking with some of the other guys.
51:28
SPEAKER_03: Let my daughters know about that.
51:30
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I know.
51:30
SPEAKER_04: I mean, her.
51:31
SPEAKER_04: I mean, my kids don't get that for their weddings.
51:34
SPEAKER_04: I tell them I'm giving you 7,500 bucks, you can go to the courthouse, you can use it for a wedding.
51:41
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, whatever.
51:42
SPEAKER_04: I don't care.
51:42
SPEAKER_04: But that's all$7,500.
51:44
SPEAKER_04: $7,500.
51:45
SPEAKER_04: That's the number.
51:47
SPEAKER_04: But anyway, so I talk with these guys.
51:49
SPEAKER_04: I was talking with one guy who was a painter at my table and self-employed, and they just don't understand things like cash flow and how to finance stuff.
52:00
SPEAKER_04: I told him I go, look, dude, just get half the money up front for everything you do.
52:05
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
52:06
SPEAKER_04: When you go out there, if it's two grand, tell them I need a thousand bucks to go buy the stuff.
52:10
SPEAKER_04: That's what my painter does to me.
52:12
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
52:12
SPEAKER_03: But he's just had to go buy the materials.
52:14
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, no, he's he's gonna be.
52:15
SPEAKER_04: I mean, he didn't spend a thousand bucks on materials.
52:18
SPEAKER_04: I know that.
52:19
SPEAKER_04: If he's doing a$2,000 job for me, he probably spent$400 on materials.
52:23
SPEAKER_04: But he he's ahead of the game now.
52:25
SPEAKER_04: It allows him to build his business without all the financing and debt and everything else.
52:31
SPEAKER_04: And just ask.
52:33
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, just think about it.
52:34
SPEAKER_04: What's your your program?
52:37
SPEAKER_04: I mean, it it it people, if they think about how to improve their cash flow.
52:42
SPEAKER_04: I mean, a lot of these small general contractors, they they send bills out once a month.
52:47
SPEAKER_04: I'm like, you guys are crazy.
52:48
SPEAKER_04: I told all my clients I'm billing you every week.
52:51
SPEAKER_04: And if I don't get paid the day I give you the bill, we're not showing up the next day.
52:57
SPEAKER_04: I mean, how hard is that?
52:58
SPEAKER_04: I never had a problem collecting my money.
53:00
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
53:01
SPEAKER_04: My concrete guy told me how he got stiffed by two builders recently doing foundations.
53:07
SPEAKER_04: He did not get paid for.
53:08
SPEAKER_04: When he called his lawyer, he said, What's going to cost you more to pay me than I'll get for you to get the money from these guys?
53:15
SPEAKER_04: That's right.
53:15
SPEAKER_04: And it's terrible.
53:16
SPEAKER_04: He should have at least gotten half his money up front.
53:18
SPEAKER_04: 100%.
53:20
SPEAKER_04: So, yep, there's a lot of things people can do.
53:23
SPEAKER_04: And I love the bootstrapping you've done, Mason.
53:26
SPEAKER_04: This is the this is what we're trying to promote on this show.
53:30
SPEAKER_03: Mason, with a little bit of time you have left, what are your what's your advice to to like say there's a 23-year-old out there, right?
53:38
SPEAKER_03: They just graduated college, you know, they're looking at doing exactly in your scenario.
53:43
SPEAKER_03: You look back to what your decisions that you made.
53:47
SPEAKER_03: Are you happy about your decisions?
53:49
SPEAKER_03: Was it were you nervous about making them?
53:52
SPEAKER_03: Would you change anything?
53:54
SPEAKER_03: And then what I mean, what encouragement would you have to go to the direction that you made?
54:00
SPEAKER_01: Um I think that's like the biggest thing that I would tell anyone is just, well, I'm I'm definitely partial to um to like the blue-collar, like the blue-collar space, um, for sure.
54:12
SPEAKER_01: Uh, but I would just say the the biggest advice is just do something, just do it.
54:16
SPEAKER_01: Um like I think that I really do believe that so many people could be successful doing any of this stuff um if they just did it um and just went out and did it and then got better.
54:30
SPEAKER_01: And then with all the um all the material and just everything with AI and YouTube and everything, you can learn anything you want um and just just do something.
54:41
SPEAKER_01: Uh that's I mean the the that's the that's the biggest advice I could say.
54:45
SPEAKER_01: It's just I think you I think anyone can do it just if it just takes you doing something.
54:51
SPEAKER_03: You know, l let me ask you a follow-up question on that.
54:53
SPEAKER_03: Were you taught in high school and college on how to run a business, or have you learned by just doing it?
55:00
SPEAKER_01: I learned by just doing it.
55:01
SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, for sure.
55:03
SPEAKER_04: That's that's the thing, it's an iterative process.
55:06
SPEAKER_04: That's the problem with business planning.
55:08
SPEAKER_04: I mean, I think it's fine to do a business plan, but once you get out there and you start doing stuff, it's gonna change, dude.
55:16
SPEAKER_03: You you have to you got to.
55:18
SPEAKER_03: And and I think to Mason's point, like people look at like there's like like I mean, I would say if I look to you, right?
55:24
SPEAKER_03: If I'm young, I'd look to Mark.
55:25
SPEAKER_03: Mark's a successful business person, Mason's a successful business person.
55:29
SPEAKER_03: What book did they read?
55:30
SPEAKER_03: Oh, I hear that said all the time.
55:32
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
55:32
SPEAKER_03: How how do they how do they forecast model their business plan and become successful?
55:37
SPEAKER_03: Because that's what my professors and my teachers and all the investors and the startup cohorts are telling me I should do.
55:43
SPEAKER_03: When the reality is, is Mason's point is exactly right.
55:47
SPEAKER_03: You have to take the step, get in there, you get in there, get nasty, yeah, and just realize like nobody has it figured out.
55:54
SPEAKER_03: You and I are old as hell, Mark.
55:56
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we've been doing business a long time.
55:58
SPEAKER_03: I'm learning every day.
55:59
SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
56:00
SPEAKER_03: I'm my back's against the wall still.
56:02
SPEAKER_03: I don't know if I'm right.
56:04
SPEAKER_03: I can be completely wrong.
56:06
SPEAKER_03: I have a reputation to uphold, and I think I'm I might be, I think I'm failing all the time.
56:12
SPEAKER_04: Getting over your skis a little bit.
56:13
SPEAKER_04: I know what you're saying.
56:15
SPEAKER_04: No, I feel the same way.
56:17
SPEAKER_04: But but the thing is, we're in the game.
56:20
SPEAKER_04: In the game, babe.
56:21
SPEAKER_04: You gotta be in the game, you gotta be doing and learning.
56:24
SPEAKER_04: And I think Mason brings up such a good point because so many young people are part of that coffee house uh entrepreneur group.
56:34
SPEAKER_04: Okay, endlessly, endlessly fantasizing about tremendous success.
56:40
SPEAKER_03: I've had people like come and say, Hey, I'm I'm thinking about starting a business.
56:44
SPEAKER_03: Will you have coffee with me?
56:45
SPEAKER_03: I'd much rather have somebody say, Hey, Eric, uh, I just started a business and I need to have coffee.
56:51
SPEAKER_03: I got some freaking questions.
56:52
SPEAKER_03: No, no kidding, right?
56:54
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know what fans, their their chances, their chances are a hundred percent more about of being successful than somebody that's just thinking about it.
57:03
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, they really are.
57:04
SPEAKER_03: You gotta step out there, man.
57:06
SPEAKER_03: And you probably could fail.
57:08
SPEAKER_04: You got to step out on some roofs.
57:12
SPEAKER_04: Right?
57:12
SPEAKER_04: If you're gonna be doing gutter cleaning, you better be willing to step out.
57:16
SPEAKER_03: That's great advice, Mason.
57:18
SPEAKER_03: Good job to you, man, on making the step.
57:20
SPEAKER_03: Great encouragement to folks.
57:22
SPEAKER_03: People, if people want to contact you, maybe they got some questions about business, they're aspiring, or hill, maybe they have a gutter they want to clean.
57:31
SPEAKER_03: No kidding.
57:31
SPEAKER_03: I wish you were gonna get a hold of you.
57:33
SPEAKER_03: How they get a hold of the company.
57:35
SPEAKER_01: Um, the company is just EdwardsGuttercleaning.com, or um, LinkedIn is a great place to connect with me on.
57:42
SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm pretty active on there.
57:44
SPEAKER_04: Well, come to Northwest Arkansas, and Eric and I will both give you your first recurring um revenue contracts.
57:51
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, there we go.
57:52
SPEAKER_04: Okay, you got two of them sitting right here waiting for you, brother.
57:55
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, man.
57:57
SPEAKER_04: Sold, bro.
57:57
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, we have gutters.
58:00
SPEAKER_04: You got lots of gutters, you got multiple houses need their gutters cleaned right now.
58:05
SPEAKER_04: All right.
58:05
SPEAKER_04: Well, listen, it's been great having you on the show.
58:08
SPEAKER_04: We appreciate your visiting with us today, and I hope that our listeners got something out of your success and story.
58:17
SPEAKER_03: That was one of the worst like closing statements I've ever heard.
58:21
SPEAKER_03: I mean, you look.
58:23
SPEAKER_03: Are you tired?
58:24
unknown: What the hell?
58:28
SPEAKER_04: Of course I'm tired.
58:29
SPEAKER_04: I'm 68.
58:30
SPEAKER_04: I'm always tired, dude.
58:33
SPEAKER_04: I went to bed.
58:34
SPEAKER_04: I went to bed at like 8:30, and of course I woke up last night, you know, like 11:30.
58:40
unknown: Yeah.
58:41
SPEAKER_04: Then I started going, you know.
58:43
SPEAKER_04: Then I was up at 5:30.
58:45
SPEAKER_04: No.
58:46
SPEAKER_04: You went back to bed?
58:47
SPEAKER_04: Yep.
58:47
SPEAKER_04: Went back to sleep, got up at 5 30.
58:49
SPEAKER_03: Why'd you have to get up at 5 30?
58:50
SPEAKER_03: Did you have to go to the bathroom or anything?
58:52
SPEAKER_04: Well, uh, of course, but I always get up early.
58:55
SPEAKER_03: Mason, I don't have those problems.
58:57
SPEAKER_03: Do you?
58:57
SPEAKER_01: I mean, not yet.
59:03
SPEAKER_04: Thank God one of my friends is a urologist.
59:06
SPEAKER_04: He's been on the show.
59:08
SPEAKER_04: He's cool as normal column.
59:10
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, he was awesome, man.
59:11
SPEAKER_04: We didn't have him back on.
59:12
SPEAKER_04: Yeah, we need normal back.
59:14
SPEAKER_04: We do.
59:14
SPEAKER_04: All right.
59:15
SPEAKER_04: Well, hey, this has been another episode of Big Talk.
59:18
SPEAKER_03: Talk about small business.
59:23
SPEAKER_03: Mason, thanks, man.
59:24
SPEAKER_03: Great story.
59:25
SPEAKER_03: Congrats to you.
59:26
SPEAKER_03: Haller, if you need anything, we're happy to help out any way we can.
59:30
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me.
59:32
SPEAKER_03: Thanks, buddy.
59:33
SPEAKER_03: Mason.
59:33
SPEAKER_03: Good luck to you.
59:34
SPEAKER_01: All right, yes, sir.
59:35
unknown: Bye.
59:41
SPEAKER_02: Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Big Talk About Small Business.
59:45
SPEAKER_02: If you have any questions or ideas for upcoming shows, be sure to head over to our website, www.bigtalkaboutsmallbusiness.com, and click on the Ask the Host button for the chance to have your questions answered on the show.
59:59
SPEAKER_02: Stay connected with us on LinkedIn at Big Talk About Small Business.
1:00:03
SPEAKER_02: And be sure to head over to our website to read articles, browse episodes, and ask questions about upcoming shows.