Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Ep. 553: Becoming a More Effective Whitetail Gun Hunter with Jordan Sillars and Spencer Neuharth

Transcript

Ep. 553: Becoming a More Effective Whitetail Gun Hunter with Jordan Sillars and Spencer Neuharth · Wired To Hunt Podcast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, home of the
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: modern white tail hunter and now your host, Mark Kenyon.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt Podcast. I'm your host,
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Mark Kenyan, and this week on the show, we're covering
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: everything you need to know to become a more accurate
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: and effective white tail hunter with a gun and helping
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: me do that or die hard firearm deer hunters, Jordan's
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Sillers and Spencer new Heart. All right, welcome to the
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you by First Light
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: Tannis Show. We are continuing shooting month, but this time
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: we're stepping away from the archery thing and instead I
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: am joined by two serious gun guys who are also
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: white tail guys, and we're gonna be diving into a
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: whole host of different topics related to becoming a better
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: shot with a firearm while you're out there deer hunting.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: How to become a more effective gun deer hunter. We
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: discuss criteria for picking the right firearm, optics AMMO, and
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: accessories for deer hunting. We talk about ideas for how
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: to better practice with your gun in the off season,
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: uh stuff like proper trigger pull and breathing and shot
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: process determining your max range with a firearm for deer.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: How accurate is accurate enough with a gun for deer?
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: Is this super hardcore long range, super accurate? You know
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: range nut kind of thing? Is that necessary? What about
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: dealing with target panic? We talked about that, shooting an
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: adverse conditions, and a whole lot more so. In short,
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: if you plan on using a firearm for any of
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: your deer hunts, is coming year and you're ready to
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: invest a little extra time and energy into doing this
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: better than you have before, this episode is for you.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: So about further Ado, Let's get to week two of
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: shooting month. We're talking guns for deer hunting and all
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: things in between. Let's get into it all right with
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: me on the show today to talk guns. We've got
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: Spencer new Heart and Jordan's Sellers. Welcome, Welcome to show, guys,
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: thanks for being here. Yeah, thanks, thank you Mark. Mark.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: When is the last time you killed the deer with
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: a gun? You killed one in one But before that,
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: when the last time deer died because you had a
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: gun in your hands? Oh man, You see you were
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: so busy this past year, Spencer, you you totally blaked
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: on what I did in one because I killed all
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: four of my deer with a gun last year. Oh man,
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: you believe? Can you believe? In new Mark Canyon? I
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: know you've You've inspired me. After one week in November
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: and you trounced and every deer in town with your gun,
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: I said, throwing the stick, stick and string out the
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: door and picking up the boomstick. So so are you
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: Are you doing more gun hunting in two now? You know,
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: I don't have any gun hunt it's like traveling gun
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: hunts planned. I'll gun hunt in Michigan. That's all I
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: have planned right now. Um, but I'm not you know,
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: I'm not opposed to It just kind of depends on
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: the situation and where I'm going in times of year
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: and stuff. So yeah, I've got a lot to learn though.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: Like I definitely am the deer hunting or the gun
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: hunting deer hunter who grew up in the world where
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: you know, we would go up like opening day of
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: guns season in Michigan was November, and we go up
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: to camp on November four with our rifles. There was
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: an old gravel pit down the road on some public land.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: We drive out there the evening of the fourteen, We
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: shoot at a pie plate at forty yards and if
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: you hit the pie plate, you're good to go for
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: the season. That was it. That was my gun hunting experience.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: That's what I learned to do, and I kind of
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: taking that into a delthhood. So so you know, this
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: is gonna be a good conversation for me today to
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: hopefully dive deeper into it and become become a little
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: bit more effective. Because you guys supposedly know you Spencer,
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: have been preaching this forever. Jordan's I think you're probably
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: in the same boat. You've been preaching the whole gun
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: hunting for deer thing for a while. Spencer. Can you
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: give me let's start with you, Spence. Can you for
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: people that haven't heard your stories in the past here
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: on the show, which probably have, but if they haven't,
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: can you give me a quick rundown of your gun
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: hunting for deer, you know, experience or background, and why
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: it is that you like to do that so much
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: more maybe than the stick and string. Yeah, like many
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: deer hunters, I I feel like they killed their first
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: year with the gun. There was a case with me
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: it was too forty three old Remington's seven hundred. I
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: think that's probably twelve years old or something. And since then,
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: I've killed white tails and I don't know eight different
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: states from Kentucky to Montana to Texas with a rifle. Um,
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: and white tailed gun hunting has probably been like my
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: number one pursuit for the last five years or so.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: And I think, like mini hunters, my style of hunting
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: is is sort of a pendulum. And my first five
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: years of deer hunting, we're basically exclusively with rifles, uh,
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: and it was probably a product of it being the
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: easiest entry for the world of white tails. Then my
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: next five years I did way more white tail archery
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: hunting than I did gun hunting because I yearned for
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: a greater challenge. UM. There was more opportunity with seasons
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: being longer, in tags being easier to draw, UM. And
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: I wanted to get white to get to know white
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: tails more intimately and try to kill them in like
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: ten yards instead of three yards. And now my last
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: five years, the pendulum is like swung pretty far back
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: the other way where I don't know, but maybe like
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: eighty or nine percent of my white tail hunting and
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: given fall now is with a rifle, and I think
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: it's more of the adventure part of it at this point.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: Like if I only have twenty days a year to
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: deer hunt, and on average it takes me three or
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: four days to be successful with the rifle versus six
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: or seven to be successful with a bow, then I'm rifle.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: Then if I'm rifle hunting, I can travel to like
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: five or six different states to deer hunt, versus only
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: two or three if I'm archery hunting. Right now, that's
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: more valuable. That that's more valuable to me, and I'm
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: able to fit in like more unique counts. Now. I
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: don't think that will last forever. I'm sure at some
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: point the pendulum like swing way back the other direction
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: and I'll spend sixteen or seventeen of those twenty days
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: archery hunting and only a couple rifle hunting. But for
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: now it's it's the other way around. So, uh, white
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: tail rifle hunting is my jam right now. I get that.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: That's a fair a fair explanation. Jordan, What's what's your story?
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: How did you how did you get into gun hunting
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: for deer and what's your background with that? And an
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: interest in him yeah. Uh. So I actually didn't get
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: started deer hunting really until I was an adult. Um.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: I'm one of those adult onset hunters you may have
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: heard of. Yeah, but but I've been deer hunting now
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: for about ten years, um, mostly here in Texas. And
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: I know when when people think about hunting in Texas,
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: they think about the kind of high fence, private ranch
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: operation big bucks. I had someone just recently who heard
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: I was from Texas and and kind of assumed that, oh,
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: you must have shot some big bucks. Um. I've never
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: hunted on one of those ranches. Uh. Everything I've done
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: has been low fence UM, small properties, maybe like forty
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: acres um. So that's really kind of where I got
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: my start, and that's kind of what what I've been doing. Um.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: But I actually was interested in firearms before I became
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: interested in hunting. Really. I kind of got into it
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: through my my in laws. My brother in law was
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: a big, big gun nut, um, and he got me
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: into that, and then I thought, well, you know, I
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: have these guns, I should probably do something useful with them. Right,
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: So I h I that's kind of how I dip
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: my toe in into the hunting world. Um. But I've
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: also been a gun writer for about eight years now,
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: so I've had lots of experience testing shooting all kinds
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: of different guns. Um, so that's been that's been a
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: lot of fun. And and tell me this then, what, Well,
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: let me, I guess I'm gonna take a step back.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: This is this is shooting month on the Wires Hunt podcast. Right,
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: so we're we're really focusing all about the tool you're
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: using to hunt deer and how to be more effective
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: with it. The first step in being more effective as
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: a gun hunter for deer, I gotta believe is choosing
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: the right tool for the job. Right. I think that
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: probably what I grew up doing is maybe not the
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: best idea for new hunters today or adult onset hunters
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: who are picking up right now. In my case, I
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: just took my grandpa's all gun and I showed up
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: the day before and shot a pipe play. Right, if
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: we were talking, we were trying to do this in
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: a more you know, thoughtful way. Let's start at the
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: very beginning of this discussion, and Jordan's being the gun writer.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: I'm sure you've had many questions about this. I even
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: think you might have written an article for mediator about this,
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: But what would be the things you're thinking about when
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: choosing the right firearm for white tail hunting? There's a
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: lot of debate about this, Spencer. I'm sure you've got
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: an opinion, but Jordan, can you kick me off with
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: what criteria you're thinking about when try and make that decision?
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: And then maybe you can walk me through some of
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: your you know, best options, most recommended options, personal favor
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: anything like that. Yeah. Sure. Well, so I think the
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: most important thing, or maybe not the most important thing,
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: But the first thing to remember is to uh not
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: get too anxious about about this decision. Right. I think
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: you can go online, you can read you know, articles
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: that I've written, you can read all kinds of debates
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: about what's the best dear cartridge. Um, the the truth
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: is that pretty much anything above uh two two three
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: Remington's is gonna do a pretty good job, right. And
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: I would hate and I would hate the thought that
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: there's a new hunter out there who who just gets
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: so anxious about the choice that they just don't choose
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: anything and they never get out time. So that's I
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: think the first thing to keep in mind. Um. Another
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: thing that I think people kind of miss is that
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: this this question of power, right, what's power? What? What
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: cartridge is powerful enough to take down a deer? Again? Um,
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: you know anything above two two three Remington's is going
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: to really have enough power? So that shouldn't really be
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: your primary consideration. I would say more important, especially for
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: a new unter or or a young hunter, um, is
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: going to be uh ammo cost and availability as well
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: as comfort. We talk about this quite a bit in
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: our caliber battles. Um. It's something that that you might
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: forget about when you're when you're choosing what gun to pick,
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: what what cartridge to go with? Um? But look at
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: how much it costs to shoot it? Right, Look at
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: how much a good hunting round is gonna cost, Look
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: at how much practice rounds are gonna cost. And make
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: sure that that you can afford to buy enough ammunition
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: to go out and practice quite a bit with it, um,
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: because because that's a really important thing, not only practice,
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: but also um, you know, getting that rifle sighted in
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: Uh maybe a little more precisely than a pipe plate
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: mark would would probably be good. Yeah, yeah, you want
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: enough ammo to do that. Um. Also, uh, you want
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: enough ammo to be able to find the brand and
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: and bullet weight of AMMO that your gun shoots really
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: well UM, and that can take what a few boxes
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: to figure that out. So so AMO cost and availability
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: is big UM. And then also uh comfort of shooting
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: right of of how much that gun is going to kick,
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: that's big. If if you UM don't like shooting your gun,
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: you're not gonna go practice with it. If it hurts
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: to go shoot your gun, you're not gonna shoot it
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: very much. And worst case scenario, you develop a flinch
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: where you're anticipating that pain in your shoulder and you
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: can't shoot that gun accurately. UM. So while you know
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: obviously it's important to choose something that has enough juice
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: to take down a white tail UM. I think demo
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: cost and availability and recoil are are two really big
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: factors to consider UM. And you can find some of
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: that information online. Obviously, the demo cost and availability certainly UM,
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: but there's really no substitute for experience. So if you
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: have a friend who has a few of these cartridges
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: that you might be interested in, asked them to take
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: you to the range, and and your choice might be
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: a little easier than you think it is after actually shooting, uh,
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: some of those cartridges. So, Jordan, if you had to,
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: if you had to recommend like your top two overall
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: best options. I know there's a whole bunch of you know,
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: specifics we could get into, but if you had to
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: pick the top two most you know, most useful options
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: across the board, what would those be as far as
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: you know a cartridge or or type rifle. Yeah, well,
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: so I think the six five creed More is obviously
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: very popular and there's a reason for that it um,
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: it balances. I think the power you need to take
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: down certainly a white tail. UM, many elk have been
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: taken with with the six five as well as that
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: comfort factor I was talking about out so it kicks
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: a little less than some of the other thirty caliber cartridges. UM,
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: I'm constantly recommending six five. I've had great luck with
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: six fives out of factory rifles, shooting factory mm O
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: very accurate. Um. So that's certainly a recommendation I would make. Uh.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: And then the other probably is three way Winchester. The
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: three way win was my first dear rifle. UM. You
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: want to talk about AMMO availability, you can find it
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: everywhere right, it's it's a NATO cartridge. So not only
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: can you find really high quality, accurate hunting ammunition, you
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: can also find bulk ammunition, you know, the cheap stuff
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: that you can go out and shoot all day at
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: the range and not feel like, you know, you have
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: to take out a second mortgage when you get home. So, yeah,
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: the sick the six five creed in three waight win.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: Those are two two great options for for any new hunter, Yeah, George.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: And what if you were to own two cartridges for
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: deer hunting, Like if if you were to have one
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: that's on the smaller end of the spectrum and one
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: of the big end of the spectrum, if you were
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: just picking two to own, what what would those be then? Yeah? Yeah,
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: I mean I think you mentioned the two forty three.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: I think a lot of a lot of people say
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: that that's the smallest kind of deer cartridge they're they're
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: gonna go with. Um. I know, Federal makes some some
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: two three remingtons, which is a bit smaller. They make
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: some of those specifically for deer hunting, and a lot
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: of people with the two two three, Um, but I
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: think just to kind of stay on the safe side,
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: the two forty three is a great option. Uh. That's
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: not gonna kick very much at all. It's still gonna
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: have um, you know, enough behind it too. You know,
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: go out to two or three hundred yards, but it's
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: gonna be very comfortable to shoot. UM. And then you know,
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: if if you want to go longer range, uh, you
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: can go up to the you know, the three way
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: win is A is a great option for that. Six
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: five is great option. UM. The seven millimeter Remington Magnum
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: that's uh kind of your your classic long range. Lots
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: of power behind that. UM. You know, you can shoot
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: all day with with one of those. UM. So if
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: you want to have to one kind of light recoiling,
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: you can get it in a small rifle, easy to
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: handle UM. And then if you want another for you're
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: gonna go out, uh you know, out west and and
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: maybe take a deer UM an open country. The seven
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: millimeter Remington is is a good choice for that. Have
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: either one of you guys had any experience with the
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: straight wall cartridge rifles now that are getting pretty popular
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: cross parts of the country. I've never haunted in a
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: state that required straight row straight wall cartridgice, so that's
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: that's pretty foreign to me. But Jordan has written about
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: that subject or some guy. I think he's an article
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: that was like the five best street walk cartridges for
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: deer tell Us about those jobs. Yeah yeah, um, so yeah,
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: I I wrote up those those five. Um. The one
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: I've had kind of the most personal experience with is
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: the four fifty bush Master. Um. And that I mean
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: that has enough power to you know, takedown a tank.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: It feels like, you know, I mean it's it's a
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: that's a that's a big, powerful, powerful cartridge. Um. You
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: don't have to worry at all about uh, you know
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: about having enough power that that one. You might start
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: running into some kind of comfort issues, some some recoil issues.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: I've got a scar between my eyes from getting scoped
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: by four fifty that will frequently remind me of that. Yep,
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: yeah exactly. Um. But yeah, I mean, people seeing the
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: praises of the three fifty legend, I think and I
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: think that they have a point there. I think it's
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: I believe it's marketed as the fastest straight wall cartridge.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: I may be getting that wrong, um, but yeah, a
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: hundred sixty grain projectile, so you know, a three O
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: eight is like you can shoot one. So it's the
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: it's in the range of the three O eight in
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: terms of bullet weight UM going twenty three hundred ft
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: per second at the muzzle, it's supersonic past four yards. Um.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: So yeah, any any place where you're limited to a
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: straight wall, the three fifty Legend is going to be
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: a great choice for you. And it's getting you know,
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: it's getting more popular, so it's a little easier to
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: find there are more rifles chambered in that in that cartridge.
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: That's always the kind of the thing you have to
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: ask with the newer cartridges is how many rifles have
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: been chambered in this? Am I gonna be able to
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: find something that that fits my needs? Um? But yeah,
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: I think the three fifty Legend is a good choice
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: for a straight wall. Yeah. I can speak to that
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: personally too. Is that's that's the gun I bought um
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: to hunt down southern Michigan, and it is. It's a
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: sweet little shooter. I mean, it's it's compact, It does
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: not have very much recoil at all. It shoots just
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: fine out to the ranges that I can shoot in
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: southern Michigan. You know, we're not taking four hundred shots,
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: but it shoots great the ranges I'm comfortable at, and
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: you know, just it's a really not even a very
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: loud gun either, so it seems like a really good
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: gun for newer hunters. Uh, I've been I've been really
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: keen on that one um spencer spencer can you can
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: you add or do you have anything you would add
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: when it comes to back to you know, not straight walled,
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: but firearms in general, rifles in general. Do you have
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: any other criteria that you think about when choosing the
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: right firearms, right rifle, right cartridge or do you want
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: to weigh in on your favorites or recommended options? Yeah,
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: I think um Jordan was thrown around the example before
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: about like being paralyzed by choices, because there are some
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: choices and and he specifically talked about like if you
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: had a two twenty three um and you were thinking
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: about getting into hunting or whatever. To three is a
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: great example for this hypothetical person who is flirting with
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: the idea of deer hunting. Because we we had a
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: tribute question once about what's the most sold um MMO
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: in America and it's the two two three. And I
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: think Jordan has written about before how like the most
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: owned firearm cartridge is in the two two three? Do
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: I have that right, Jordan? Is that specific to like
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: a RS? Yeah? I mean I think the reason it's
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: the most sold is because it's it's chambered in a RS,
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: and that's the most common rifle. Yes. So if if
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: you are that person who owns a two twenty three
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: and you're thinking about getting into deer hunting, UM, just
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: go use your two twenty three. That's that's like on
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: the smallest end of the spectrum, um, but it's still
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: you know, an ethical round that you can use to
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: bring down a deer. And and say you then decide
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: that's for you, Um, go I a bigger rifle that
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: would be more you know, well equipped for your style
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: of hunting. But if you have a two twenty three
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: and you're thinking about it, um, just go ahead and
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: do it. And you're asking Mark about like criteria. Um.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: For me, living where I do in the West, I
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: really value versatility. Last year in Montana, I used the
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: same rifle to kill a white tail, to kill an antelope,
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: to kill an elk, and that gone was a six
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: five creed More, And what I love about that cartridge
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: is specifically how little of recoil it has and how
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: flat that it shoots. I find that I often wind
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: up in awkward shooting positions where I don't want to
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: have to think about what's going to happen to my
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: shoulder when I pull the trigger. And the six five,
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: you know, has about half as much recoil as more
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: popular to your cartridges like the thirty odds six Springfield
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: or the two seventy Winchester UM. And and so the
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: six five is my choice. Um, but I would also recommend,
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: like the three O eight is a is a super
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: versatile cart whig if you were just going to have
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: one dear rifle. If I were to have to deer rifles,
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: I think I would probably go with like my smaller
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: caliber being a six five creed More, and my bigger
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: caliber being like a thirty on six Springfield or a
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: seven mm UM like Jordan had talked about. But again, um,
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: with all of these choices, there are tradeoffs with whatever
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: caliber you choose. It's just like with Broadhead's mark um
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: when you guys, when you talk about guys having um
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: like a single bevel broadhead that really penetrates um deeply
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: and it can bust through bone um, but it maybe
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: doesn't have as big of a cut or fly as
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: well as like a mechanical which can you know, throw
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: a huge two inch cut, but maybe it doesn't good
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: as good at penetration, but it flies just like a
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: field point. So with all these choices you're making, there's
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: like no perfect answer or no perfect cartridge. You're just
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: talking about trade offs at that point. So whatever, uh
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: you know maximizes like value for you, Whether you hunt
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: the big woods and wiscott in Um or if you
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: hunt out west in in Idaho, or if you haunt
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: in Texas, UM, you're gonna find a cartridge that you
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: think is like ideal for your situation that may be
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: different than the guy who haunts one property over. Yeah,
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: now what about you know people are increasingly finding ways
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: to customize their rifles or accessorize them in different ways.
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: Is there anything Spencer that I actually can think of
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: one thing I know you use? Can you speak to
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: any ways that you would recommend either modifying a rifle
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: for deer hunting or any accessories you tack on it
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: that are particularly helpful? One of the great things about
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: most of the people that are listening to this who
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: are white tail hunters is they don't need to spend
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: a lot of money on it tries. Now, if you're
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: having this conversation with like be Honest about hunting elk
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: or Brodie Henderson about hunting mule deer, it would be
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: totally different because those guys have to be really weight conscious.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: But most white tail hunters that are hearing this not
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: so much, and so sort of something you don't have
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: to factor into the equation as much as if you're
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: just hunting out of a deer blind in Kentucky. Um,
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: but my most important accessories the Swag your bipod. And
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: now we're not partners or anything like that. So this
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: is like a genuine endorsement of Swagger bipods. They allow
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: you to shoot from whatever position you might end up in,
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: like I said before, which which tends to be awkward,
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: whether you're standing or kneeling, or prone or sitting or
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: leaning off of a tree or shooting from a blind
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: or a tree. Stand Uh, that thing can always like
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: give you a sturdy rest. Now, again, if you were
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: talking to Brody, you're you're honest about this. They would
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: think you're absolutely crazy for carrying around a bipod that
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: weighs like two pounds. But if I'm hunting in in
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: the Midwest, that extra weight isn't really a big deal.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: It's it's absolutely worth the advantage of being able to
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: shoot from whatever position you might find yourself. And so
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: I think specifically for a white sail hunter, UM, just
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: knowing that you have a good solid rest, whether that's
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: off of a bipod that's connected to your gun or
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: a tripod UM that also doubles as you know, holding
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: your camera to take pictures. Uh, just really focus on
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: that part of the hunt. Yeah, Jordan, would you would
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: you add to that? Yeah, well I second that. On
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: on the Swagger, the Swagger bipod spencer, can you kind
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: of explain what those are just for people who haven't
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: maybe seen them before, because they're they're a pretty unique
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: UM tool. Yeah. Most bipods that you use UM, once
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: you deploy them, they are like a very stiff bipod
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: that they go out to like sixteen inches and they
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: stay at sixteen inches and you have to basically try
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: to shoot them prone. Swagger allows you to extend it
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: like sort of ridiculous ranges UM where you can shoot.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: If you're just like of an average height of like
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: five eleven, you can use this bipod and extend it
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: long enough to shoot while you're standing. You just you know,
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: fold the legs in a little bit tighter. Um. They
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: also allow you to swivel around a bunch of directions,
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: which is is really cool if you were hunting UM
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: in an area like I was last year in Montana
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: for one week in November. I was hunting a spot
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: that didn't really have a specific funnel, and I wasn't
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: sure what the deer we're going to be doing. Having
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: the ability to prop my gun up on a bipod
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: and be you know, had very easily like shoot all
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: the way to my right at like, uh, what would
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: that be ninety degrees? Or go to my left at
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: two seventy degrees. The Swagger bipod allows you to do that.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: They're not as stiff or or rugged as a traditional bipod.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: But if you're sitting on the ground leaning against a tree,
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: UM and you want the ability to to make a
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: variety of shots, that would be like my top recommendation. Yeah, Yeah,
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: they're very cool. I've I've telt them a couple of times. UM.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: One thing I would add, and this really applies more
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: if you're going to be shooting out you know, three
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: D four hundred, five hundred yards UM is a bubble
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: level that you put on your scope to make sure
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: that you're shooting, that that your radical is level when
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: you're shooting. UM. I wrote a piece on this a
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: couple of months ago, and I was surprised. I talked
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: with a guy at vortex UM and I was surprised
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: at how much tilting your rifle to the right or
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: to the left when you shoot can throw off your shot. UM.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: He did did some math for me and found that
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: at three hundred yards UM, a two degree can't to
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: the right or the or to the left can move
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: your shot horizontally by almost nine inches UM. And that obviously,
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: uh the the effect of that is even worse as
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: you increased distance. Now, I don't want to kind of
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: over overstate this too much. It's not going to be
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: a huge deal if most of your shots are are
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: within you know that that three yard range. But having
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: that bubble level on your scope, uh is is gonna
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: be able to tell you you can just glance at it,
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: look and say, Okay, I'm shooting straight. I don't have
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: to worry about this. I can you know, either just
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: hold right on or I can dial and and I'm
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: gonna be good to go. Um. So that's one thing.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: And they're not expensive, you know, maybe thirty bucks and uh,
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: and that will help make sure that you're shooting strade
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: When it comes to white tail hunting, how how important
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: is a good scope? I mean, you know, going back
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: to my ill advised childhood, I mean, we had like
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: thirty dollar scopes on our rifle. I didn't touch a
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: higher end scope till I was in my twenties. For
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: guys that are just hunting farm country in Michigan or
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: Ohio or Georgia, they're shooting fifty yards, maybe a hundred
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: and fifty yards, you know, that kind of stuff that
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: most you know, west or east of the Mississippi white
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: tail guys are doing. How important is the scope? Do
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: we really need to sink a bunch of money into it?
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: Jordan's um or is it really that important? Oh? Man?
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: I I really, I really have a special dislike for
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: scope snobs. Um. It just kind of bothers me when
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: when people say, oh, you really have to spend you know,
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: two thousand dollars, three thousand dollars on a scope. Why
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: are you putting that cheap scope on that nice gun? Um?
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: But I get it right. I think for people who
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: are hunting at those longer distances, it makes a lot
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: more sense. If you're not hunting at those longer distances,
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: I think, uh, it could still be a good idea
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: to invest at least some amount of money in a
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: scope just for those low light conditions at Donner at
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: dusk when you know, we hunt whitetail. You want to
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: be able to see clearly and so. Um. You know.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: I don't think you have to spend a thousand dollars
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: on on your your scope for your dear gun. Uh,
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: but but I think it is worth it to invest
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: just to get that clarity in those low light conditions. Um,
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: you know, at least a couple hundred dollars. I would say,
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: what do you think, spencer, Yeah, I think scoops or
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: I think scopes are super important. If I was building
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: a white tail gun for like a thousand bucks, um,
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: I'd spend half of that on a scope in the
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: other half on the rifle. Itself. Jordan, I'm curious to
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: hear like your thoughts on that. If you were spending
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: a thousand dollars on a gun that's going to be
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: your white tail gun, how would you break that down? Yeah, No,
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: I like that especially, I think especially because these days
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: you don't have to spend a ton of money on
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: a gun. You know, five hundred dollars is gonna get
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: you there, Ah, for a gun that's gonna shoot as
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: well as you needed to shoot, right, they talk about
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: the gun shoots better than you do. Um, five dollars,
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: that's that's gonna be enough to get you there. And
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: so then yeah, you can spend the rest of that
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: on a really nice scope and be sure that you
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: know you're you're seeing clearly. Um. So yeah, i'd agree
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: with that. Yeah. And the difference between like a four
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: hundred dollar gun and an eight hun gun is noticeable.
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: But for a lot of white tail hunters, um, maybe
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: not necessarily and it's not going to like kill them
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: anymore dead, but the difference between a four scope and
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: an eight hund scope is is pretty enormous. Um. So,
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: if you're setting aside a budget to buy a new gun,
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: like spend at the top of your budget for a scope,
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: and and you won't regret that scope. We're probably like
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: outlive the gun itself when you decide to move on
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: and get a different cartridge or get a different gun,
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: or or you know, change things up and go out
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: west or get a straight wall cartridge or whatever. So again, UM,
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: I put a lot of emphasis on like making sure
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: you have the right scipe. Yeah, that's and that's a
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: great point about being able to switch it to a
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: different gun, because the gun's gonna where eventually. Um, but
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: if you take care of the scope, you can you
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: can move it over. Well, what what makes a good
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: white tail scope? Then? If you know, if we're if
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: we're agreeing that what a western hunter is different, what
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: a western hunter needs is different than what a white
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: tail hunter needs. But Spencer, you're saying we should still
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: try to get as good of a white tail scope
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: as we can. What does that mean? Um, what's the
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: criteria we're looking at that's most important for these types
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: of situations. Well, a lot of the stuff is going
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: to be obvious, and that's like the amount of light
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: that you're letting in and how crisp things look. And
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: those are things that you'll notice, like the second you
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: go from a crappy scope to a very nice scope,
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: especially when it manas most which is like that first
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: half hour shooting light or that last half hour shooting light.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: But I think more important to that is, um getting
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: the right magnification for whatever your situation might be. Now,
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: when I hunt in the West, I'm using like a
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: three by fifteen power scope. UM. But maybe if you're
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: hunting like the swamps of Mississippi or something, Um, you
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: don't need anything that gives us beyond like six or
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: something like that. I don't know what that number would
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: be because I haven't been in that situation very much.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: But just making sure that you have the appropriate size
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: of magnification because you can really hurt yourself if you're
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: under magnified or overmagnified. UM. So getting that part right
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: and then and then spending like a responsible amount of
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: money and uh, you'll be happy with whatever you get. Yeah, yeah,
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: And I think the temptation is always to go for
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: too much magnification, right, Like we want we want hubble
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: telescopes on our rifles, even if we're only going to
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: be shooting a fifty yards um, so yeah, I'll definitely
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: agree with Spencer. All right. So let's say we've got
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: our deer gun. Then we've got four rifle that shoots
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: better than than we can shoot ourselves. We've got as
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: good of a scope as we can afford. It's got
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: good low light capabilities, not too much magpower and swagger
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: bipod on there. And now I am you know, Let's
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: say I'm like one of the millions of deer hunters
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: out there who traditionally have done what I do, which
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: is you go out for opening weekend, maybe you go
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: out around Thanksgiving, um, but then the rest of the
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: year your bow hunting or maybe the gunning is all
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: you do. But let's say this year you say, all right,
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna get better at this thing. I'm gonna pay
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: more attention to my gun. I'm gonna actually invest in
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: time and energy in doing this the right way because
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: I don't want to have another miss or I don't
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: want to whatever. When it comes to leading into the
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: season kinds of work like tuning your rifle or checking
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: the zero in your practice spencer, what what does that
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: look like for you? As far as the preseason work
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: with your dear gun, how you're practicing with it, tuning it,
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: setting anything like that. What does that look like for you?
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: And what should someone be think thinking about as they
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: get you know, try and take things to the next
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: level themselves. I'm not super intense, um about my practicing,
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: and it's certainly requires I think less than someone who's
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: trying to kill a deer with a bow. Right then
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: you recommend their shooting year round and they're ramping up
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: as a season gets closer and and things like that. Um,
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: the reality is would be awesome if you did that
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: with your with your rifle. Um, But shells are expensive
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: and it's not like you can everybody can just like
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: go in their backyard and and uh, you know, let
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: out twenty rounds or something like that. So if if
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: you were going to practice like I think an appropriate
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: amount and you just wanted to burn through one box
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: of shells, which these days is kind of expensive, that
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: could be you know, fifty depending on what you're shooting.
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: I'd recommend trying to break that up into multiple sessions. Right,
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: So rather than going out and shooting twenty shells, all
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: that wants, uh, maybe go out like four times in
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: the couple of months. Leading up and only shoot five
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: rounds each or go out three times and only shoot
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: like seven rounds each. UM. Now, the more shooting the
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: better obviously, but again that's just like not practical for everybody.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: And just like with archery, it's it's fun to practice
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: at ranges beyond um what would be a realistic yardage,
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: and that will actually give you some confidence when you
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: do come back to a short or distance. Right if
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: if I take out my rifle and um, I can
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: hit steal at five hundred yards, when I come back
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: to two hundred, which is a more realistic range, that
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: that feels like a piece of cake. Just like if
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: you shoot your bow at sixty and then you come
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: back to fifteen, UM, it makes that feel easier. And
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: so I'd recommend a little bit of that too. But uh,
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: just getting like really confident at whatever you think your
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: your yardage is, whether it's a hunt or two hundred
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: three hundred um, and and making sure you get out
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: like three or four times, you know, in the months
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: leading up to the season. UM, that's that's good enough
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: to like make you a very effective rifle hunging, very
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: effective rifle hunter. But I'd be curiously about Jordan's to say,
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: is someone who you know shoots you round? Yeah, I
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: mean I think I think you hit it when you
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: said shoot at realistic distances. Um, I think you're you're overarching.
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: Um kind of goal should be too. Try to replicate
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: as close as possible the hunting situations you're likely to encounter.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: And obviously hunting is, um you know, unpredictable, so you
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: won't be able to always do that. But um, you know,
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: it's unlikely that you'll be able to take a shot
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: from prone with your bipod totally calm and relaxed, right,
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: I mean it's possible, but it's more likely you're gonna
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: have to shoot over some grass, or you're gonna have
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: to shoot leaning against a tree or resting your gun
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: on a fence post. Um. So when you do actice,
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: I think it's it's way more useful to practice those
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: types of scenarios. Um. So you're not just we're shooting
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: from the bench, right, I mean, I guess maybe if
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: you're in a tree stand, it's somewhat like shooting from
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: a bench. Um, But practice those field positions. So practice sitting,
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: practice squatting. Um. I I heard a Special Forces sniper
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: once who said that he took most of his shots
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: squatting with his elbows rested on his knees. And that's
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: how we took most of the shots. Because that's how
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: if if you know you're you're in the field, that's
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: that's what you gotta do. UM. So practicing those field
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: positions is really important. UM. And Spencer mentioned kind of
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: the cost of AMMO, which is pretty insane these days. UM.
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: One way you can still get in some practice without
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: spending any money on AMMO is dry fire. Uh. If
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: you talk to guys who do do a lot of
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: competition shooting, they'll tell you dry fire is uh invaluable UM,
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: which you can do at home, you know, just you know,
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: be safe. Of course, make sure your gun is totally unloaded.
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: A lot of times guys will will dry fire, like
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: at their guns safe just like you know, that added
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: level of safety. But just make sure that that that's
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: the case, and then practice those field positions. But you
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: can do it, you know, in your basement or um,
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: in your room, and it doesn't feel like it's helping,
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: but it really is helping because it's it's teaching you
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: that trigger control. It's teaching you how to keep those
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: sites on your target and pull the trigger without just
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: without disrupting those sites, which is when you're gonna miss. Right,
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: you can hold sits on a target. The reason you
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: miss is because when you pull that trigger, you move
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: them a little bit. UM, So dry fire is great. UM.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: I also recommend like getting a training gun in twenty
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: two long rifle or even like an air rifle. UM.
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: Any any trigger time is going to be helpful for you.
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: And again going to of those field positions, it's gonna
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: make you a better shooter. Yeah. The field positions thing
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: is is so important. And I consider myself like a
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: a very experienced uh gun hunted for deer. And something
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: I didn't pick up until recently when I started shooting
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: with Garrett Long for meat eater who shoots probably more
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: than anybody um that I know, was that if I
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: were to go out to the range and I were
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: to shoot like the six five creed More that I
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: that I hunted with all of last year, UM, I
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: would just shoot that off of a lead sled and
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: then that's that's what I would do. That would be
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: my routine. Garrett Long will absolutely not let me shoot
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: off a lead sled unless like my rifle isn't zero
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: or something like that. But assuming my rifle is zero,
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: they we're gonna go out and shoot, you know, five
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: to ten rounds. He will not let me shoot out
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: a lad sludd. He's making sure that I'm shooting off
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: of my bipod while I'm sitting or shooting off of
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: my bipod will laying um. And I felt so dumb
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: when I realized like that that was the correct course
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: of action for practicing with your rifle, and that it's
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: actually pretty silly to just like sit there on a
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: life slid uh and pull the trigger. So those field
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: positions like Jordan was talking about, um, everybody you know
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: should take that tap away from this podcast. Jordan's you
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: had talked about, you know, that trigger time being so
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: important to really understand how to control that trigger. And
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: that brought to mind something that's so simple that I
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: think a lot of longtime gun hunters don't even think
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: about it anymore. But that is the right way to
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: pull the trigger and shoot your gun. You know, I
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: think I've heard so many different people say different ways
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: to do it. You know, some people say take a
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: deep breath and then squeeze and then pull, you know,
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: when you release the breath. Some people say hold the breath.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: Some people there's all this different stuff about breathing and
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: squeezing and pulling and all that kind of stuff. Could
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: you could you walk me through what you think the
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: right way it is to do that so that someone
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: who's either new or someone who wants to like check
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: what their grandpa taught them and see if it's right.
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: Can you walk us you're like the right way to
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: do that, so that when we are dry firing and
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: practicing or on the range and practicing, we're doing it
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: the best possible way. Yeah. Yeah, I mean I think UM,
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: in terms of breathing, letting that breath all the way
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: out is gonna be the best kind of option. I
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: know there's there's some debate about that, but to me,
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: that just makes the most sense. And that's what I've
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: had the most success with UM. Because you don't want
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: your body to be moving when you're trying to shoot
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: a gun, right, You certainly don't want to pull that
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: trigger as you're inhaling um or or as you're exhaling,
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: because your your chest is moving with those motions. UM,
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: So you wanna you want to let that breath all
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: the way out. UM. And then in terms of your
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: trigger pull, um, pulling it with that first finger pad
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: on your trigger finger, UM is going to make sure
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: again that you're not disrupting those sites. You're not uh
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: you know, jerking that trigger and moving the sites off
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: of the target. UM, You're you're you want to focus
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: on you let that breath out, and then you put
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: you give that trigger a even consistent pressure. Hopefully if
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: you've gotten lots of trigger time, you've practiced a lot,
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: you know exactly when that trigger is going to break
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: even consistent pressure. Um with that breath out and you
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: break your shot like that. UM. That's how I've done it,
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: That's why I was taught to do it, and I've
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: had success with that, uh that method spencer anything different
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: for you, Yeah, I think, UM. One of the hardest
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: thing to simulate, even at the range is just like
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: being out of breath when you have to make a shot.
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: And I experienced that a lot haunting left of the
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: Missouri River where I will spot a deer at like
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: a thousand yards and now I got to close that
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: distance to three hundreds. So all of a sudden you
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: know you've walked like a quarter mile or something, and
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: you're going up and down ravines and you get there
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: and that he's about to disappute over the next hill
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: or something, or across the property line, whatever that might be,
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: and then you had to make that shot after you
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: know you're now out of breath. And so I think
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: one thing that you could try to practice at the
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: range is just like step away from your gone walk
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: back to your pickup, um, walk around, they pick up
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: a few times whatever, um, look at your phone, but
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: just like walking while you're doing and then come back
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: and try to make yourself shoot within like you know,
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: the first twenty seconds of of getting behind your rifle.
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: Because I think any of the deer that I have
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: missed in recent years, it wasn't because I was nervous
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: or because there was something wrong with the gun or
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: my environment. Um, it was that like it got to
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: the moment of truth and I had just, um like
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: walked a long distance and now this dear is is
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: about to hop a fancy or something. I have to
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: make a shot in amount of breath. And so I
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: think that is is one thing that I would recommend practicing.
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: UM unless you're someone who you know hunts in Tennessee
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: and you just sit in elevative blind all the time,
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: that that won't really be an issue. But for anyone
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: else who's not in the Midwest, that could be like
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: something that you need to learn. Yeah, and I think
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: I mean even even if you are hunting in the
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: Midwest from a tree stand. Um, the sensation of target
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: panic is similar to the sensation of you know, uh,
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: like you're describing being physically out of breath. So I
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: think if if you struggle with you know, your heart
• 45:42
  Speaker 1: starts beating out of your chest when you see that dear, Um,
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: that strategy that that spencer describing will help with that
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: as well. It's just getting used to making good shots
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: when your heart's beating, the adrenaline is going. Um. It's
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: it's great, great practice for for those situations. Let's talk
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: to something else that I think, something else that I
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: think Jordan can speak too better because he knows the
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: physics of it. Um is that you don't want to
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: practice with a hot barrel. Um. It can be tempting
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: to go out and like wrap up your whole you know,
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: shooting process in like fifteen minutes or something and in
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: that fifteen minutes you sent like seven to ten rounds
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: down range. That's too much. Your gun barrel is going
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: to be hot, and if you're new to to gun haunting,
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: you might not realize like the effect that that can
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: have on on your accuracy UM, and it might like
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: make you tempted to then move your zero and you're
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: making these adjustments and your barrel gets hotter and it
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: only gets worse from there. So speak to that a
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: little bit, Jordan, about why it's important, you know, to
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: be shooting with a barrel that's not smoking hot, because
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: that's not how it's going to be in the field,
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: and that can affect your accuracy. Yeah. Yeah, so you
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: certainly don't want um two to zero your scope based
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: on a hot barrel. Now, sometimes, you know, some guns
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: do a great job with you know, your your point
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: of impact doesn't shift much at all with with the
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: hot barrel. UM. Some guns, especially a lot of hunting rifles,
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: if it's a thin profile barrel, UM, you can have
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: a significant point of impact shift when that barrel is hot.
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: Uh So, what I always recommend is, if you're sitting
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: in your gun, like you know, at the beginning, at
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: the beginning of the season. UM, shoot your group right,
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: shoot three to five shots, same point of aim, adjust
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: your scope, and then wait until your barrel cools off
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: before taking another shot. Because your first shot on that deer,
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: your barrel is gonna be coold. Ideally you do this
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: with UM you know, the same outside temperature and at
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: the same elevation, because that can packed your shot as well. UM.
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: If if that's not possible, you know it's you'll probably okay.
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: But making that final shot where you confirm your rifles zero,
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: you got to do that with the cold barrel. UM. Now,
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: if you're if you're practicing right, you're practicing those field positions,
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't worry too much about making sure your barrel
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: stays perfectly cold. Uh. You don't want to burn out
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: your barrel. You don't want it to get you know,
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: flaming hot and melt. Um. But if you're just practicing
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: on steel or whatever, you know, it's not a huge
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: deal if if your barrel gets gets hot. But once
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: you are zeroing it, you know, the last shot before
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: you go out to hunt, you want to do that
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: with the cold barrel. UM to make sure you're replicating
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: the in the field scenario. Interesting, Um, I want to
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: go back to what you brought up Jordan's in regards
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: to target panic, and you know, that's something we talk
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: a lot about in the bow hunting world, maybe less
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: so in the gun hunting world, but I mean there's
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: a plenty of ways that it shows itself, right, whether
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: it be in punching the trigger or flinching at the shot,
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: or you know, in my case with my gun hunting experiences,
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: it's it's just always been that I rushed the shot,
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: Like I mean, as soon as the cross areas behind
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: the shoulder, it's it's being sent like that's been something
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: I fought for a long time. I can only think
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: of like one shot ever with a gun that I
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: can really tell you honestly that I like, really slow
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: down and let the crossair just sit on the deer
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: for a little bit of time before I squeeze the trigger. Thankfully,
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: as my longest shot I've ever taken at a deer,
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: and I got it. But I've I've had trouble with
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: this is what I'm trying to say. UM So my
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: question is for folks that have experienced that, for people
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: that are experiencing that, how do you tackle that other
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: than doing the you know, run around and train and
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: get your heart right up and practice like that. UM.
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: I've spent a lot of time learning about dealing with
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: target panic with a bow. I gather there's probably a
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: lot of things that are similar, but from a gun perspective,
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: how do you help someone dealing with that with their firearm? Yeah,
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: I mean a good question, right. UM. I think it
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: goes back to practice and confidence, because the more you practice,
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: the more confident you're gonna be in in your ability
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: to make a shot. And so even when your heart
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: is racing and you're shaking, you're you're gonna know and
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: your body to make a good shot. UM. So you
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: can still feel that confidence even though you know your
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: your adrenaline is going um. And again that that goes
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: back to practice. UM. Speaking of kind of uh mistakes
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: or or bad shots. One time this this really affected
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: me was when it wasn't a very long shot. I
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: was I was do hunting, um, and I I but
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: I still you know, got got that hit of adrenaline. UM.
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: I didn't have a great rest and I had also
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: been shooting earlier in the day with a different gun. Uh.
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: That had a much heavier trigger. So when I went
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: to pull the trigger on my deer hunting gun, I
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: mean that thing went off when I did not expect
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: it to. Um. So so I think another thing just
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: to kind of, you know, get really dialed in right
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: before that hunt is as you're going out, but before
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: you leave, UH, do a little bit of dry fire
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: just too again, remind your body of this is what
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: the trigger feels like when it goes off. This is
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: how much pressure you need to put on it, um
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: and and that that will help you even uh in
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: those moments of target panic. M Spencer about you have
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: you have you ever dealt with it at all? Um
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: a little bit. I experienced it far more UM using
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: our treat equipment. And I think the same things mark
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: um that makes somebody a good shot with a rifle
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: would apply to making them a good shot with the bow.
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: And I know you've talked about this a lot, um
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: and what it takes to get rid of that target panic.
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: But all the same things that you emphasize, UM, you know,
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: when you're you're shooting an arrow apply to when you're
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: shooting a bullet. UM. I think if you take somebody
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: like lead by Morgan. Whoever the best um archery hunter
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: you know is, I'm sure they would. They would also
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: excel sitting behind a bipod on a rifle. Um, all
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: those same things seem to translate. Yeah, that makes sense.
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: So so then here's the question. I guess it's kind
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: of a two part question. Um, how do you know
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: you're shooting well enough to go out there? Right? I
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: mean I recognize that my childhood experience was probably not
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: the right answer. Right, hit apply hit a pipe play
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: at forty yards probably doesn't mean you're accurate enough these
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: days to go out and shoot a deer of the
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: gun at least not advisable. Uh, what would you guys
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: say is accurate enough? You know? If I'm shooting two
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: inch groups, that two of my good? If I'm shooting
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: one inch groups a hundred of my good? Is it?
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: Is it something else? How? How do you guys measure that?
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: How do you determine what's accurate enough and that I'm
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: ready to go out there and do this thing well?
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: And then secondly, part two of this is how do
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: you determine what your max ranges? How would you go
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: about that spencer? I think for determining your max range UM.
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: For most white tail hunters, their environment will determine that. UM.
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: I don't think that there's a lot of people hunting um,
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: you know, like eastern Mississippi, eastern Missouri that would have
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: many opportunities to like take a five hundred yard shot
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: or six hundred yard shot or something like that. So
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: I think for a lot of folks that's just predetermined
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: basically by what they're hunting in. But if you do
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: hunt in the west, you're where it's more open, or
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: maybe your hunting an enormous egg field, um, where those
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: kinds of shots exist. UM, Then I think it's I
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: don't know if there is a good rule. UM. Like
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: I feel like we often hear with our tree equipment
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: that it's like a ten yards you should be shooting
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: one inch groups or something like that. And and maybe
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: Jordan is aware of like a good rule for that
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: kind of thing. UM. But you'll recognize, like if you're
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: accurate enough to go out and ethically kill a deer,
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: and you have to think about usually you're you're aiming
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: for their lungs, which are about the size of like
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: a a pie plate. And so I've had a hundred
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: yards you're throwing like two inch groups in it, you know,
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: two hundred yards, you're throwing three or four inch groups. Um,
• 54:44
  Speaker 1: that's that's plenty accurate to go out and kill a
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: white tail, assuming you know, all other factors are not
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: making you inaccurate. So you're telling me that when I'm
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: reading in these like gun magazines and they're talking about
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: how all their bullet holes are touching each other and
• 55:02
  Speaker 1: they're within like one eighth of a millimeter and every
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: single one stacking on top. I'm not supposed to do that.
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: I mean, any rifle that we're shooting is probably capable
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: of that. But when we're behind a bipod or you know,
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: resting um on our knees or something like that, Now,
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: if you can throw you know, a couple inch grouping
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: at a few hundred yards, um, that's that's plenty accurate
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: to like effectively and ethnically kill a white tail. Yeah, Jordan,
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: what's your take? Yeah, Yeah, I agree with Spencer. I
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: think we're more likely to be limited by our own
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: skill as a hunter than by the limitations of the
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: ammunition we're using. Right, because you you can you can
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: determine how far your bullet is going to expand right
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: and reliably dispatch an animal. The the AMMO maker can
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: tell you how fast does that bullet have to be
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: going uh to reliably expand and you can use that
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: and calculate, Okay, the bullets still traveling at this speed
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: at eight hundred yards, So that is my max effective range.
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: The problem is that that's probably not your max range, right,
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: unless you have extensive experience, unless you are very comfortable
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: making wind calls, unless you UM are are very confident
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: in your your range finder. UM, your max range is
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: limited to what you can shoot in that specific situation. UM.
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: I think the pipe plate thing, UH, it's not a
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: bad like thing to think about, right because everyone knows
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: how big a pipe plate is, and that's about as
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: big as the vital area UM of a white tail.
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: So if if you think you might make a three
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: yard shot, UM, take a pie plate, put it at
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: three yards and shoot from those field positions. Shoot from
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: the positions you think you're likely to shoot from in
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: the field. And if you can, if you can group
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: those shots near the center of the pipe plate, I
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: think you're gonna be good to go. UM. If you're
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: shooting all over the pipe plate, right and one light
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: kind of barely mixed the edge. Then maybe you want
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: to bring it back a little bit because in the
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: field again, um, you know, you're gonna deal with weird weather,
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: You're gonna deal with your own adrenaline. Um, so you
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: want to make sure in that controlled setting of the
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: range you're you're hitting near the center. But yeah, like
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: Spencer said, couple inches at two or three hundred yards,
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: you're gonna be good to go with with most situations
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: you're gonna encounter. Okay, how does how does all this
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: look in the field? I mean, when I think about
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: my archery shot process, I'm in the tree, I see
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: a buck come in, he's moving into range. There's a
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: whole series of things that I'm doing to prepare myself
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: for the shot and to actually x acute, you know,
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: all the way to firing that arrow down range. Jordan,
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: can you walk me through what that process looks like
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: for you with a firearm. I'm really curious about all
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: the detailed things, like what you're thinking about, what you're
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: checking at each different point. Um. You know, I'm curious
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: if there's anything here that we can get better at.
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: For me, it's always just been like an automatic thing
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: I've done since I was a kid. I'm curious if
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: there's a better way to do things when it comes
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: to actually getting into position and executing the best possible
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: shot on a deer with a gun in the field,
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: What does that look like for you? Yeah? Yeah, I mean,
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm curious also to hear what Spencer has to say,
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: just because of his extensive experience with this. But um,
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: you know, for me, the first question is how far
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: away is the deer? Right? Am I gonna need to
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: have any holdover? Am I gonna need to dial my
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: scope at all? Um? You know in most white tail
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: situations probably not, especially if you're sited in at two yards.
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: You know, you're probably gonna be able to hold right
• 59:05
  Speaker 1: on target. Um once I once, Once I am comfortable
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: with the range, I'm comfortable that this is the animal
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: that I want to take. Um, I'm gonna get behind
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: the scope now. I think I struggled with this when
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: I was a new hunter. Uh is getting a good
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: site picture can be challenging in that scenario when you're
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: when your adrenaline is pumping right you, you get down
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: behind the scope and now all you see is black um.
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: And I think if if you grew up with firearms,
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: maybe that's not so much of a struggle for you.
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: But if you didn't. UM, practicing getting that good site
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: picture is important before the hunt, so that once you
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: get there, you can immediately bam, you're behind the scope.
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: You have a clear sight picture and the animal is
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: in your scope. UM. That's another thing. Sometimes you see
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: through the scope and now you're not sure where you are.
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: You're kind of lost. UM. So so practicing that beforehand
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: is good. Uh. One thing that I've found to be
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: useful as having a good cheek riiser that's at the
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: right height. UM. That way, my my cheek goes down
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: and I'm automatically at the right height. So you know,
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: there's there's a better chance of getting that good site picture. UM.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: Once I have that good site picture, you know, it's
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: it's just kind of back to what we talked about before,
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: controlling breathing, focusing on that trigger. UM. That's something that
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: that I tell people all the time is is the
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: most important thing when you're breaking a shot is that
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: trigger control. UM. Is just focus on making sure that
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: trigger press is consistent and that you're pulling all the
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: way through, um, because because that's what's gonna really gonna
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: make or break the shot, is that trigger. UM. So
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: once you know, once you break that shot, that's that's
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: kind of hopefully you've you've made a good one. M
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: When are you addressing the safety? Do you do? You
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: pop that safety off as soon as you've got the
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: site picture, as soon as the crosshairs are on the vitals,
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: as soon as as soon as when? Yeah? Good, good question. UM.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: I think probably as soon as I get the animal
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: and the crosshairs, that's when the safety is coming off.
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: Now I'm not putting my finger on the trigger until
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 1: obviously the animals where I wanted to be and I'm
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: lined up and ready to shoot. UM. But but yeah,
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: clicking that safety off, and you know I I forgot
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: that even as I was describing this process, so you know,
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: it's happened to the best of us. I think where
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: we forget to flip that safety off? H spencer, what's
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: your process look like? I think one of the number
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: one things you need to remind yourself if you're gun
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: hunting um or deer is that you can take your time.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: If if you're an archery hunter, who is um getting
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: into gun hunting. You're probably familiar with how it could be,
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: you know, the middle of November and you're hunting a
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: funnel during the rout, and an entire encounter with a
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: deer can happen in like ten to fifteen seconds, and
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: that's it, and that's your only chance. Um. With gun hunting,
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 1: it's it's rarely that quickly. You can take your time
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: and like calm yourself down, um and get a good,
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: steady rest rather than a mediocre one, um, because a
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: lot of times that deer probably doesn't even know that
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: you exist, and and there isn't like a real threat
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: of you moving your knees a little bit or bringing
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: your gun up higher on your shoulder because the thing
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: is a hunter and fifty yards away and doesn't know
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: that you're there, which isn't like, uh, it's not something
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: that really translates to archery. If you're familiar with you know,
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: the intimate and counters that you have with deer. The
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: other thing is um ahead of time, knowing the zoom
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: of your scope. It can be common for you to
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: like go out to the range right and the last
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: shot you take is at six hundred yard and you
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: hit steel and you're feeling real good, and that's the
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: shot that you end on. And then you go hunting
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: opening day and and you pull up your scope um
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: like when it matters, and you realize that you have
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: your zoom turned up to like fourteen or something, and
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: then all of a sudden you're dialing back and you're
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: you're adjusting your clarity and and things like that. So
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: ahead of time, whenever you sit down, we're like, you
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: think you're hunting, and you have your your gun on
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: safe um, sit down and look around through the scope
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: and figure out, you know, what you want the zoom
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: to be if the things that three fifty yards or
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: if it's at seventy five yards UM. And then you
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: should also, just like when you're our tree hunting range,
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: things ahead of time. And so if you're sitting in
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: a tree stand and you know that this uh trail
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: is eight, you know ards in that trail is nineteen
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: and this tree is twenty four, you should do the
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: same thing. When you're gone hunting. You should know like roughly, okay,
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: that tree is a hundred yards and uh, the top
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: of that hill is two hundred um and things like that,
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: you'll likely have enough time to range deer and get
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: a precise range, because, like I said, the gun encounters
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: aren't as quick or immediate um as our tree encounters are.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: But it's it's something else that you should be doing
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: out of time, just like when you're hunting with the bow. Yeah.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: So does your process look any different though as far
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: as like the actual steps are taken than Jordan described, No,
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: I think I think it's pretty well the same. Um.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: Like you acquire your target, like you you bring your
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: eye to the scalpe. That's when I flip flick off
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: the safety. Um. So I think it sounded very similar
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: to you know, what Jordan does when he's gone hunting deer.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: Do either one of you guys have any kind of
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: internal monologue or mantra or words that you're repeating yourself
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: to try to help focus on these important things? You
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: know that's a big thing in the archery world. Um.
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: Is that something that's ever played into firearms for you,
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: Spencer or Jordan's for me? Um? Not very much? Um.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: But but I also kind of choose to haunt with
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: a caliber that doesn't have as much recoil for that reason,
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: and I think people it probably happens to and they're
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: not even aware of it that they're like bracing themselves
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: if they're shooting a two seventy um that they're they're
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: shooting a large bullet out of um, that they have
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: to like kind of choose to think about the recoil
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: that's about to happen. That's one of the reasons I
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: love to shoot with a gun like a six five
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: creed More is that never crosses my mind as far
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: as like what's going to happen to my shoulder after
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 1: I pull a trigger. I think some people do have
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: to think about that if they're shooting a thirty ot
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: six or seven mm um. But as far as it
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: goes um pulling the trigger. I don't have any mantras
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: or anything like that, but I wouldn't be surprised if people,
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: you know, have that without even realizing it when they're
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: shooting a gun, that that really kicks them. Yeah. Yeah,
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: I don't have anything specific. I think just I try
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: to breathe and control my breathing and then just focus
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: on that trigger. I mean I might I might even
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: think that in my head focus on the trigger, uh,
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: just because that's that's what I That's all I tried
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: to think about as hard as that is when I'm
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: when I'm in that situation. M Yeah, I think new
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: shooters um probably wouldn't even recognize like what a good
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: trigger pole feels like. And I'm specifically talking about the
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: weight of the trigger poole. I've only had one rifle
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: in my life that I considered to like be inaccurate,
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: and it was because the trigger pole was wildly be
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: And I even took it to like a gunsmith to
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: to get it addressed because I couldn't get it taken
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: care of UM and he ran into the same issues
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: where he couldn't get it any lass. But I'd be
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: curious to wordy to hear your thoughts on on like
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: the weight of a trigger. I think ideally you're in
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: like the four pound range or five pound range. UM,
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: a really heavy trigger pole could be like almost double digits,
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: and it's like replicating a handgun at that point. That's
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: not ideal. You you want a trigger pole it's not
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: so light that it's gonna go off if you bump it.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 1: But also UM like light enough that you don't have
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: a long trigger pole where you're really thinking about it
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: or you're unsure when it's gonna go off, or you
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: have to think about how much emphasis you're putting on
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: on your finger pulling the trigger. And it's probably like
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: one of the cheapest, cheapest ways to just make it
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 1: a rifle more accurate is getting a trigger pole that's
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: right for you. It's something you can probably address after
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: watching like a YouTube video or just taking to a
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: gunsmith and they'd probably do it for free and just
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: ask you to like next time you got a more
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: serious matter you're bringing your business. Yeah, yeah, no, Uh,
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: A trigger is is one of the easiest things and
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: a lot of rifles one of the easiest things you
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: can swap out. UM. A lot of aftermarket trigger companies
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: make drop in triggers for the most popular uh, you know,
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: both action hunting rifles. So it's just a matter of
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: taking that action apart, you know, UM, taking out a
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: couple of screws and putting the new trigger in UM
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: and it can make a world of difference. I mean,
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: it's it's not gonna make the gun more mechanically accurate,
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: but it's gonna make you more accurate with the gun
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: without question, especially if you're going from a trigger like
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: Spencer's describing to a really nice trigger. Um. A lot
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: of them are also adjustable, so uh, pretty common. It's
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: pretty common to be able to adjust them between two
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: and a half and five pounds. And I would say
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: any anything in there that you're comfortable with is going
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: to be a great trigger. And it it's really about
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 1: it's about the trigger weight, right. You don't want it
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: to be too heavy, but you also want that break
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: to be really consistent, so it's breaking at the same
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: weight every time. Uh. And then you also want the
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: break to be Uh. It's described in a number of ways,
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: but usually it's like you describe it as a crisp break. Right.
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 1: It's not mushy, it's not gritty. It's like you're just
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: pulling back, applying that consistent pressure and then all of
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: a sudden bang. Right, it's like kind of like glass breaking. Um.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: That's a really good trigger that you're going to have
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: success with. And the nice thing is that a lot
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: of you know, if you're buying a new gun that
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: was manufactured within the last few years by one of
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: the big gun companies, it's probably going to have a
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: really good trigger in it, and it's probably going to
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: be adjustable. Um. And that's great. I mean, you may
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: not need an aftermarket trigger, but if you have an
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: old gun, um, that's definitely a great upgrade you can make.
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: So would you spectrum, George, what's the spectrum of like
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: weights that you're pulling on your triggers, even for guns
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: that you're not using to hunt with? Yeah, I mean
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: so I think the like the military, that's the mill
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: spec weight for like an a r I think is
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: like eight pounds UM. And that's you know that's a
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: decently heavy trigger is eight pounds um double digits is
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: incredibly heavy and incredibly long. Uh that you're gonna find
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: maybe in like um, like a revolver, right, like a
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: like a double action revolver, where it's just super long
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: and super heavy. Um. For for handguns, I mean even
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: handguns these days, you can you know, uh, five six
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: pounds is pretty common for for a new handgun. Um.
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: But yeah, if you're looking at at at a new
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: hunting rifle, three and a half to five pounds is
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: is probably what you're gonna be looking at. I'm gonna
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: guess that my nineteen seventy two semi auto Winchester does
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: not have a good trigger. Poll that was. That was
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: the first rifle I used in I remember I tried
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: to site that in at long ranges to take to
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: Mexico for cou'se deer hunt, and I could not understand
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: why the lead was flying all over the place and
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: couldn't group well. It. Uh, it was pretty obvious once
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: I started thinking about that. Um, speaking of the bullets
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: going all over the place, the last thing I want
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: to cover is shooting the elements and how that stuff
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: can affect your accuracy. Um in a white tail scenario
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: at least. So Jordan, what about the wind you talked
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: about earlier? How you know maybe you need to count
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: for wind in certain situations and what ranges? What I
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: actually have to think about wind at all? Knowing that
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: in a lot of white tail scenarios now I'm not
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: shooting that far out. Do I need to care about wind?
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: How do I count for wind? Should that factor in it? All? Yeah?
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: I mean I think within about three hundred yards unless
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: you're talking about like a gale and you're shooting a
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: very slow round. UM, probably not uh past three yards,
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: you're gonna want to be thinking about it. And the
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: problem with making wind calls is that it's very difficult. Um.
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: It's it's tough to judge if if you are in
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: a stationary position, what the wind is doing four hundred
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: yards away. Um. And that really goes back to just
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: having experience with that rifle and with that caliber and knowing, um,
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: what you want to do. And I mean me personally,
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to take a shot if I feel
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 1: like the wind is so strong and I'm making a
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: very you know, a longer distance shot, um, just because
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: I don't I don't know enough about the situation to
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: to make what I think is is ethical shot. Um.
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: But yeah, go ahead. I was just gonna say, what
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 1: do you consider a gale force wind? Like, what's that
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: number for you? Yeah, I mean obviously it's not actually
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: gale force, um, but anything above and and it depends
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: to on the direction of the wind. Right, Like if
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: it's a tail wind coming from straight behind you, or
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: if it's a wind coming from straight in front of you, Um,
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 1: that's not going to affect the bullet whole lot. But
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: if it's coming from ninety degrees you're on your left
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: or you're right, Uh, that's gonna push it quite a
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: bit more. Um. If you want, like uh uh more
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: of a range of a lot of the well, all
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: of the um like ballistics calculator apps will make those
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: calculations for you, so you just plug in. Here's here's
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: my my cartridge. Uh, here's how fast it's going, and
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: you can see and you can play with those wind
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: numbers to see. Okay, at three yards the wind is
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: coming from directly on my right. Here's how much it's
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: gonna push the bullet um and that could be revealing,
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: but again it's gonna affect you a lot more if
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 1: you're making long distance shots within a couple hundred yards,
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: you know, it's probably not going to matter a whole lot. Okay,
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: Spencer year out there on the Great Plains a lot
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: South Dakota, Montana, Wyoming, it's windy as hell out there,
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: has this factory in at all for you in the field.
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: Um now, and when you're talking about heavy winds, it's
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: not so bad if it's like a consistent heavy wind.
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: But as like more experienced shooters than me I pointed
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: out to me, if you're hunting in a Western state
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: and you're shooting across like three or four different coolies
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: um to your target, all those coolies can have different
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: like different thermals, and one can have the wind just
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: ripping through it and the next one may not have
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: much winded. On the other one, UM may have like
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: a medium amount of winded and just having inconsistent winds.
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: I think UM is like even a bigger problem than
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: having just a nine d degree wind that's like fifteen
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: or twenty miles an hour, but it's still not enough.
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: That's going to affect UM most shooters, I think the
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: bigger thing in in nasty conditions, whether it's like wind
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: or rain or snow, UM are your optics and you
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: can have it's really cheaped by scope covers, UM, and
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: you don't need them for every hunt, and not every
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: hunter needs them either if they're like shooting from an
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: elevated blind or something like that. UM. But if you
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: are just sitting on the ground a lot or leaning
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: against a fence post and you hunt in an area,
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: UM that's going to get rain or snow, get yourself
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: some scope covers, because you can have snow that totally
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: like fills up the front of your rifle scope and
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: you not even realize it, and then when it comes
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: time to shoot, you're trying to clean it out. And
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: then you're just smearing it um. And that's an idea,
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 1: So some cheap scope covers, uh could prevent that. Also,
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: just like putting a piece of tape over your rifle barrel,
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: I think Jordan could speak to the specifics of that.
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: But that will keep moisture out of your rifle barrel.
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: I think it's been proven that that doesn't affect accuracy
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: at all. It's not going to change the ballistics of
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: your bullet um. But it's just like a good practice
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: to to keep your barrel from you know, rusting out
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: or or getting moisture in there. But I think like
• 1:16:30
  Speaker 1: the biggest thing when we're talking about the wind and
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: rain and snow is just making sure that you're comfortable.
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 1: If if you can't like feel your fingers um or
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: you're distracted because sleet is hitting you in the face,
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 1: and uh, you can't like focus on your trigger pole
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: or acquiring um, you know, the target in your scope.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: That's a way bigger problem than it actually like affecting
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: the performance of your gun. So just make sure that
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: you know you're dressed for the conditions and you don't
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: get swear be on the walk in um or that
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 1: your toes aren't freezing, and you're thinking about those things
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: because again, like Jordan said earlier, uh, your rifles are
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 1: gonna outshoot you. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's that's a great
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: point about making sure you are comfortable in the weather. Um.
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: And yes, I I believe that, I've I've I've seen
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: guys use electrical tape, um, the black electrical tape for
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: to cover your your barrel and that's not gonna that's
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: not gonna do anything. Um in terms of your shot.
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: You shouldn't worry about that, but it could affect your
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: shot if you get rain in there or or dirt
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: or something. Um. So yeah, the tapes a good strategy, Jordan.
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: Is there anything with snow or rain that would impact
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: or that would influence accuracy so much so that you know,
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: you would say, well, because of this, you know, all
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: the snow coming down and because of this cold rain,
• 1:17:57
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to shoot as long of a shot
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 1: as that would or wise, is there any kind of
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: ballistic impact that we should think about, you know, outside
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 1: of just wind. Yeah, now that's a great question. I
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: I feel that probably, Um, the rain is the rain
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: your visibility before they're gonna affect the bullet um. So
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: you know, if it's if it's pouring down rain or
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 1: the snow is really coming down hard, you're not gonna
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 1: be able to see that far out anyway, And so
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: it's not really going to be a question. Um. I
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 1: don't know specifically how much, like you know, a moderate rain,
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: it's going to impact the flight of a bullet. I
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: I would suspect very little. Um. But again, like with
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: everything else, it's gonna impact it more at longer distances
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 1: because that and everything affects it more when it's going slower.
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: So yeah, I think that that's probably not a situation
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 1: you should worry too much about in terms of your bullet,
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: but just make sure you can you can see your target. Yeah,
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 1: fair enough. I guess I got one final question, and
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 1: maybe you know your answer. You can repeat something we've
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: already talked about. But let's just say we have a
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: listener here who is a long time hunter, a good hunter.
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: He or she feels comfortable and confident out there. They've
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: killed a lot of deer with the bow, they've killed
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 1: plenty of deer with a gun, but they've always put
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 1: more of their time and emphasis and energy and getting
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: better at the bow hunting side. But this year, they
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 1: really they really want to give that extra love to
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 1: firearm season. If you could give them just one thing
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: out of the million things we talked about today, or
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: or something else entirely, if you want to give them
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: just one marching order, one takeaway, one action you want
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: them to take this year that's going to help them
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 1: be a more accurate, effective shooter of their firearm when hunting.
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 1: What would that one thing be that you want to
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 1: leave that person with a Jordan, I'll make you go first. Sure, yeah,
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: I would say, um, pick three field positions and just
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: get really good at it. Uh, get get really good
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: at at shooting from those three positions. UM. Do more
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: dry fire and shooting with you know, a bolt action
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 1: twenty two than with your actual hunting rifle. But certainly
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: don't ignore shooting with your hunting rifle. UM. But just
• 1:20:31
  Speaker 1: every time you go to the range, work on those
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 1: three positions and get really confident. Start at a hundred
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 1: yards or fifty yards and work your way out to
• 1:20:41
  Speaker 1: three or four yards. Um. And it's it's it's gonna
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 1: make you a better hunter. But it's also just kind
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: of personally fulfilling to to develop a skill like that. Um,
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: it's just a lot of fun. Yeah, Spencer, about you.
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: I think about this a lot with one of my
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: my buddies who was like the best archery deer hunter
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 1: I know, UM, and he is incredible at killing deer
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 1: at fifteen yards away, and a couple of years ago
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 1: I convince him to pick up a rifle and start hunting,
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: just because they game more opportunities and can travel more
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: and things like that. And he did that, and it
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: was super hard for him to turn off that archery
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 1: part of his brain that made him want to be
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: within fifteen yards and to perfectly play the wind and
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 1: um to like really limit your sight lines because we
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: talked about it a lot more. But when your bow hunting,
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 1: you want to be in a position to kill deer,
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 1: not not just see deer. Um. And if you're coming
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: from the bow hunting world and going to gun hunting,
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: you really have to think about how different your rifle
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 1: setups should be UM, which often means like giving yourself
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: the opportunity to see six hundred yards and and just
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 1: needing to like close the distance from that six hundred
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: to three hundred UM to make a shot. And so
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: really like, think about when you're scouting and when you're
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: looking at on X and when you're walking to your
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: tree stand to do a bow hunt, Like how you
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 1: would do this differently to kill one of these deer
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 1: with a gun, Because if you want to be like
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: a good gun hunter, it needs to be different. You
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: can't be haunting the same sort of setups and and
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: have that same mindset. Um, gun hunting is much easier
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 1: than archery hunting, but that doesn't mean that it's like
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: such a smooth transition that, um, you just take all
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 1: of your knowledge from this thing and apply to this
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: thing and you're going to kill more dear. Um. A
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 1: lot of it is just like trial and error. But again,
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: be thinking about how every gun hunt would be different
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 1: than a bow hunt when you're in those situations. Yeah,
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 1: that makes a lot of sense. Alright, guys, uh Spencer,
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: you're you're particularly good at this last thing, which is
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: plugging articles on the site. We've got a whole lot
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: of stuff. We've got a lot of stuff on this topic. Right,
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: Is there any plug you want to give for specific
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 1: articles or just you want to send them to the
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: menIt or what do you want to plug here? When
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 1: it comes to helping people learn more on this topic.
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: I was gonna bring this up whether or not you
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 1: prompted me, Mark, So I'm glad that you you threw
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: it out there for me. Our best content on choosing
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: a rifle and uh, customizing a rival and just being
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: a better, more accurate shot comes from Jordan's and so
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: the best content that we have. If you go to
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 1: the meat Eator dot com and you look at our
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: crew page, which has everybody like Steve Johannese, Mark yal
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 1: those folks, you're also gonna see Jordan's name there. Click
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 1: on Jordan's name and scroll back. He's been writing for us,
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 1: I think since twenty nineteen or something like that. Um,
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: if you're whether you're choosing a cartridge or you're trying
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 1: to be more accurate, Jordan rights the best stuff we
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: have on those topics. So Jordan's sellers on the Metator
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 1: dot com. Uh, you're gonna get more info than you
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 1: even need on this awesome Well. Uh, gentlemen, I appreciate
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 1: the time. This is good stuff, stuff that I needed,
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: and hopefully a lot of other people to thank you.
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: I like this new mark that is given John Hunters
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 1: some love and and killing four year year with a rival.
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: That's that's a lot of fun. I like it. We
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 1: gotta we gotta do a Western white tail gun hunt, Spencer.
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 1: I gotta join you in one of these and get
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: it done together. I'm into it, alright, guys. Cool, Thanks Park,
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: appreciate it all right, and that is a rap. Thank
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 1: you for tuning in. Like Spencer mentioned, be sure to
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: check out all the different stuff we've got going on
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 1: the Wired to Hunt website. Lots of great articles about
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: firearm hunting for deer and plenty others too, so I
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 1: hope you enjoy this one. Stay tuned. Next week we
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: will continue this discussion more bohoning focus, but all things
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 1: shooting and making sure we are more accurate in the field,
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 1: getting ready for our best season ever. Thanks for tuning in,
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: and until next time, stay Wired to Hunt.