Latest / Optometrists Building Empires / The Partnership That Lasted 23 Years and Counting - Kerry Giedd - Episode # 091
Transcript
- OBE_Kerry Giedd === Kerry Giedd: [00:00:00] no partnership is perfect, but, uh, You know, having someone to, to go along the, in the, You know, on that road with has been wonderful. we had some massive hurricanes came through our, our first office was essentially destroyed. Ankit Patel: All Wow. Kerry Giedd: we had barely just started taking a paycheck and then we ended up sort of having to put more money into our business and relocate. I don't know, like a, as a 50 something year old, I, the, the. To think about doing it again. It was a hard, it was a long, hard road This is Optometrist Building Empires, and I'm your host. I'm Kit Patel. Each week we'll explore the journey of practice ownership and leadership in optometry. Join us for insights and strategies from the top minds in our field. This show is sponsored by my business care team. My business care team helps your office increase revenues, reduce costs, and reduce staffing headaches. Let's build your empire together. Ankit Patel: Today's guest is someone I'm excited to have on the show. She's an optometrist business owner, contact lens specialist, and nationally [00:01:00] recognized speaker, researcher, and consultant. She co-founded and led a private optometry practice focused on specialty contact lens and eye eye disease. She's a fellow of the American Academy of Optometry and she served in many leadership roles within the organization. She leads Optometric services for Grace Medical Home, which is a nonprofit organization providing healthcare services to the working poor in her local community. She's owner and optometrist at Ola. Eyes in Orlando. Please welcome Dr. Kerry Gid. Kerry, welcome. Kerry Giedd: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. It's such a really a privilege and an honor. I have admired you from afar for a long time and the work that you've done on behalf of, uh, optometry and. And, uh, seeing you at meetings, especially idoc, and it's so cool to be on, on the podcast with you. Thank you for the invitation. Ankit Patel: Well, flattery will get you everywhere, right? Is that what they say? So, well, thank you. I appreciate those kind words. Well, uh, so with that. You know, you've got a really impressive background and you've developed a [00:02:00] really impressive community. tell us a little bit about what, what was the most important thing that helped you grow your empire? Kerry Giedd: Yeah. Well, uh, in interesting question, right? I, I know, uh, there's a little tongue in cheek with the empire term in your podcast, and, and, uh, many of us who own a an independent practice probably didn't, uh. Think of it setting out that way. But when I look back and reflect, You know, when I graduated from optometry school at Ohio State in 2000, I moved to Florida with my husband, who's also an od. and his career was kind of going a little bit different direction. And, and met, uh, who's now been my business partner for 23 years, a, a fellow female doctor. That, uh, we just met in the community and, and, uh, You know, optometric conferences and meetings And so forth and kind of befriended each other and we're both, uh, really proud of ourselves for landing these really great jobs and these really high profile successful sort of legacy practices in our community. And so we worked in these practices for about a year and then kind of realized that [00:03:00] maybe there was some smoke and mirrors there, and it wasn't all we thought it was gonna be. And, and what we thought was our dream job was kind of, You know, sort of. Crashing down around us and we thought, well, what, what do you do from here? Like, these were supposed to be the, the great practices to work for. And behind the scenes there was just a lot of, You know, practice, culture, politics, You know, EPT promises with exit strategies and, opportunities to, to be an owner. And, we got to talking and we said, well, we're just gonna do it ourselves. And so we started a practice together. we co-founded the, our practice named after, uh, a landmark lake in the center of Orlando Lake Eola. So our practice is Eola eyes. You know, we started with the end in mind. I think one thing we really did well and that, that I think has led us through a lot of. Just a lot of things over the last 23 years to really achieve what, You know, what has been just such an incredible ride, a, a wonderful road. I feel like optometry has blessed me in more ways than I could ever count. but in, in [00:04:00] specifically, what I think we did in doing that, that was, uh, so helpful was. For us, the partnership, which I know is not always the path of, uh, success for, for people, but for us, partnership really represented the opportunity to, to share a practice, to, You know, divide and conquer, share the, the, the responsibility, the risk, and then, You know, have time for a family and, and other things. And, and, I think doing that intentionally, so early in our careers, has just played out in ways. that have just been, been really wonderful and like a marriage, no partnership is perfect, but, uh, You know, having someone to, to go along the, in the, You know, on that road with has been wonderful. We now have a third partner and an associate, and there's four of us. And, You know, you, you can, we can dive into that to the extent that you want, but I think, You know, designing that practice that we could share and grow together, and still leave time for the other things and the balance between practice and personal. Uh, [00:05:00] endeavors has been wonderful. Ankit Patel: Let, let's dig into that a little bit. I'm curious, what does it mean by design? Because it could mean a lot of different things, right? Did you start with financials? Did you design with patient care? Uh, we alluded to a little bit on the, in the intro with the contact lens and disease, but tell, tell us a little bit about the design process. Kerry Giedd: Yeah, I think specifically we, we it from the get go designed what would've been a one full-time equivalent practice that we shared the hours and the coverage and in the Ankit Patel: Right. Kerry Giedd: Days we. We each worked in separate practices to kind of get our practice off the ground and still make a paycheck and be able to pay rent and buy groceries and all. So, You know, in, in the beginning we were working full-time hours, but as our practice grow grew, and of course there were some bumps in the road as there often are, and we had some hurricanes in Orlando and some other. Setbacks. But, uh, along the way we, You know, our practice grew and we, You know, could scale things where we were sharing, You know, our, we both built patient bases through our own networks of people and, And so forth. So the design, I, I really mean is that, by [00:06:00] sharing the risks and. Responsibilities of practice ownership, You know, just allowed, You know, for, for that balance that so many of us, uh, You know, try to achieve. And, and, uh, sometimes it, it, it plays out better on paper than in reality. But overall, the, the design of, of sharing, the, the practice from the start has really worked well for us, and has played out over 23 years to be, You know, so much more beneficial than, than any, uh, You know, drawback. Ankit Patel: Gotcha. And, and it's interesting, um. That's, uh, so, so I, You know, I think it's, uh, it's amazing being able to sit back after having some success be like, oh yeah, that's exactly what we did. It was easy. Tell me about a time it wasn't so easy. Like, what'd you run into that you didn't expect? Kerry Giedd: Yeah. And, and that is a great point. I mean, I think the ref, the reflection that the, the rear view mirror is, is definitely different. And, You know, I, I, I think. There were some major hurdles in 2004, which was a year and a half after we had [00:07:00] opened. we had some massive hurricanes came through our, our first office was essentially destroyed. Ankit Patel: All Wow. Kerry Giedd: we had barely just started taking a paycheck and then we ended up sort of having to put more money into our business and relocate. so we had some pretty, You know, major setbacks early on. 2008. You know, the economy was pretty rough back then. And, um. You know, we, we continued to grow through that. But, You know, it took a, I think it took some, some sacrifice. I think it was, it was definitely trying to keep our eye on the prize that the long game of practice ownership was, was gonna be worth it. Because for us it really was a pretty slow start because of some setbacks and, You know, the, the, the, You know, there were points where we, You know, went a really long time without a paycheck and, and especially when. New grads today might be graduating with, You know, a, a lot more debt than we had, by, by proportion. I know that's a really hard sacrifice to make. we did both have student loans and, and significant ones for the time, but still manageable in a way. So, [00:08:00] You know, I, I think powering through some of those hurdles and being able to, kind of scale back your personal life in the short term in terms of the. Materialistic things that you, you think you need and want, to, to kind of let that long game play out, Ankit Patel: Yeah. Kerry Giedd: Great. I Ankit Patel: What. Kerry Giedd: Other things in consulting and clinical research and stuff like that, that had different revenue streams. Ankit Patel: Well, that's interesting. So, You know, you, you, you got, uh, how many partners do you have now? Kerry Giedd: Two, I have Ankit Patel: Two. who I founded the practice with, and then another one that joined us a few years later. Interestingly, she had taken over my original partner's position in the practice. She left and, uh. Realized early on that that was also what she thought was her dream job wasn't, and, and approached us and said, Hey, can I I came back. Kerry Giedd: And, uh, so anyway, it wasn't really us looking for a partner, but, uh, it, it just sort of evolved that way. So, we, we ended up relocating and growing further, know, in terms of the, the scale and size and scope and of course, as cold starts do. But, [00:09:00] anyway, so now we're up to four docs. Ankit Patel: So tactically, how does that look from a partner? And you don't have to share that, you don't want to, obviously anything that's confidential, uh, but like how do you work that financially? The working hours, compensation. Why'd you decide to bring, you kind of hinted the partner side, but You know, would you do it again, right, like kind of talk me through some of the details and the nitty gritty and the, how you made it work. Kerry Giedd: Yeah. You know, I, I think we, we're very symmetric in our schedules and our. Kind Ankit Patel: Okay. Kerry Giedd: And, and ability and capacity from the get go. So it worked out very organically for us that there wasn't, You know, this partnership that had this great disparity in, in, in anything and productivity and hours of work and, and. It all just sort of enmeshed that way, which I realized. I don't know that that was super intentional. I think there was some planning in that, but I think it just, we were the same age, the same stage of [00:10:00] life. there was just a lot of, parody in what our, know, our situations. So we didn't have to, and even to this day, haven't had to really navigate a lot. You know, oh, I wanna work twice as much as you. And what does that look like in compensation? You know, we've, we've kind of talked through if that, how that plays out. We, You know, obviously the, the, the compensation that goes from production versus distributions and how we figure all that out. I, I think the intrinsically, there's still, the math would still work out that if we decided to do a shift, even, even now, uh, we could do that. But from the beginning it was a pretty equally shared, um. You know, workload and, uh, we kind of fell into like, oh, she would do payroll and I would, You know, do the accounts payable and accounts receivable or You know, you name the task. We kind of divided and conquered and, and largely we still do that. Obviously we delegate a whole lot more. We resource things in ways we didn't even think were gonna exist, You know, 20 years ago. But, You know that that's still the case. Mm-hmm. Ankit Patel: so I think you hit [00:11:00] something really interesting, like the division of labor. I think I hear so much, so many times, a lot of partners, they're like, they get jealous or upset because they feel like they're doing too much work. How'd you all prevent that? What, what, what was the Yeah, did it come up even? Were you just so like amazing? They'd never happen. Kerry Giedd: Yeah. You know, I, I, that is a fair question. I'm sure that that does happen, You know, whether it's personalities or even just life events, You know, somebody's family has certain needs or just, You know, whatever. And, and, and, and. The, the design can fall apart pretty quickly. You know, there, I think we've gone through seasons, we've been through a lot together in 23 years as far as, You know, having kids and families and moves and, You know, now we're in the stage, the sandwich generation of aging parents and kids going off to college. And, so through those seasons I think we've, You know, kind of, kind of found the balance and navigated that to a point where we've never really reached a. You know, a a a point where we think, gosh, I [00:12:00] really, You know, I'm doing too much, or she's doing too much. but I think that's, You know, again, kind of like a marriage, you show up for each other, you realize that, You know, this is a season and, and it's not gonna last forever. And, so I, I think we haven't really talked about it so directly, but I would say from my perspective, it's, You know, the net net of that has been, been pretty even. So, uh, You know, not that there Ankit Patel: Hmm. Kerry Giedd: Challenges, but I think it, it just, the division of labor, I, we talk about who's gonna do what. You know, it's, there's, there's stuff to do or are we gonna delegate it? now with three partners that, You know, it's easy to have a vote, You know, it's, there's always, even if it's, You know, there's no direct split. So, so there are definitely times where I think we all have faith in each other that, Hey, this is not a hill I'm gonna die on. If the two of you think this, I'll agree. If there's something that somebody's so passionate about. They're gonna die on that hill. You know, we're, we're open to that too. So Ankit Patel: Yeah. Kerry Giedd: Have pretty different personalities and different, a [00:13:00] lot of different dynamics in our, our personal lives. but it's, again, I think you realize, especially as you get older, like life isn't perfect. You know, per perfect is the enemy of good. You know, how can we, how, how can we make this work and is the alternative better? You know? Ankit Patel: Yeah. Kerry Giedd: And I think in every season, in every situation, the alternative. never seemed better Ankit Patel: Hmm. Kerry Giedd: To to do it alone or do it a different way. Ankit Patel: Sounds like you all have some level of understanding or communication or automatically natural personality fits that, that seem to mesh well or combination of uh, yeah. Kerry Giedd: You know, I think, uh, not be, uh, sexist in a statement, but I think, You know, women as you kinda learn to balance motherhood and dynamics and, You know, again, what hills you're gonna die on and, um. You know, you just, with with age maturity, you just kinda, I think, work through those things and, not that everybody does, uh, Ankit Patel: Yeah. Kerry Giedd: Thank, thank [00:14:00] goodness. It's, it's been a good balance and I've probably been the partner that's the most active, You know, in the profession outside of the practice and, You know, doing things, whether it be for the academy or consulting or whatever. And so. If we all had those same desires, that probably would be tough. But my partners really, You know, they, they really love to be engaged in the practice and that's not really their strength or, or their passion. And, they have other great strengths. So they cover me when I, You know, do things I, You know, include them in, in research. And we've all been able to, You know, have separate revenue streams from clinical research, which is a thing that I kind of pursued, but, You know, has benefited the. The partners as a whole. So, yeah, so now, I mean, now we're to the point, starting to think about exit strategy. Not too, too seriously, but thinking that way. But it's like, wow, You know, 23 years, no one's divorced. Nobody's, You know, we're, we're still here. Ankit Patel: Yeah, that's good. That's amazing. And, And so, if you were to give some, and, uh, [00:15:00] You know, based off your experience. If someone was considering a path to ownership, but You know, they have loans or they wanna try to do it, someone else they don't know. Uh, how would you suggest approaching the partnership angle? Like find a friend, find someone else? Like how, how, how would you, based off your experience, how'd you do it? Kerry Giedd: Yeah. You know, I think, You know, into the profession, which, You know, when we did it, there was, You know, very little internet and, You know, just the, the ways of connecting with people were different. And we, You know, found each other through the local community. But, You know, whether it be, You know, it. If you're in interested in private independent practice, You know, engaging in a, in a group, whether that be an IOC type thing, which I know you and I have, Ankit Patel: Yeah. Kerry Giedd: Crossed paths at paths at and, You know, or otherwise, You know, there's, there's lots of ways to find your path and lots of people who are looking for an associate, if you're looking to be a practice owner, but don't really wanna do it from the start. Um. know, I, I love a lot of your guests that you've had on here and, and one other fellow friend of ours and iot guy that we [00:16:00] both know, Larry Golson, who's, Ankit Patel: Oh yeah. Kerry Giedd: Just a, just a great human and, and great to listen to and learn from. I, I, I think of him because he, You know, he's built not only a great practice, but, but really a, You know, a business and a consulting. But, but when you hear him talk, he's so humble, You know, he, he'll tell you like, it's not like he got it right the first time and, and. Ankit Patel: Yeah. Kerry Giedd: None of us got it all right. The first time, You know, you figured it out. You hired some duds. You, you, you kept them too long in the beginning, and then you realize you need to fire faster. So there's a lot of bumps in the road. and, and I think even Larry recently said on one of your shows, like, I don't know that I'd do it again. You know, and, and, and I don't know, like a, as a 50 something year old, I, the, the. To think about doing it again. It was a hard, it was a long, hard road and especially the, You know, the income deprivation and, and You know. all the things you have to do. And but at this stage, You know, if you can power through that, if you wanna find your, your person, I, I think you've gotta be committed to that. [00:17:00] And, and if you want to have a partnership or you want to be in a practice, the opportunities are there. And, I think in our community, which is representative of a lot of communities and practice, geographics and, so forth in the country, so much has gone to private equity, and different practice models that none of us saw on the radar 20 years ago. And that has really, Almost reinvigorated us or renewed our passion for private independent practice and patients are finding us seeking that out. we had a patient come in and say, I, asked ChatGPT to find me an independent optical, and, You know, they led me to you or it led me to you. You know, that I couldn't have been my wildest dreams predicted, years ago. So, um. I, I think there's still such an opportunity for that. and as a, as retiring, You know, ods, I'm hoping that I, I understand why [00:18:00] private equity is appealing and, and there's lots of dynamics there, but I hope that, that we'll all be able to, You know, for those of us who want to be able to, to sorta, You know, coach, mentor, the, that younger generation of people who want to become practice owners. Um. uh, I, I, we're busier than ever. The demand is greater than ever, and, and I don't think we really have a magical recipe. You know, I think we take care of people the way we would wanna be treated. And when people come in, they're like, family. We ha when we do have new hires, come aboard, it's usually the first thing they, they will comment like, gosh, everybody, like, You know, some, sometimes You know your exams, if they take long, it's because you're, you guys, just, everybody loves you and, and. I know that's not always a scalable thing, and it's not always desirable to have that, You know, that practice built too much around anyone personality, and I don't, I don't necessarily think that's our case, but we just all, You know, want people to come in and, and, and feel like they've had, know, the [00:19:00] best experience they could have had. Ankit Patel: Yeah. Yeah, I think, uh, that's an interesting take because, You know, it's, it's almost like a pendulum every. One is like, I wanna get outta this business. It's terrible. And now it's like, okay, You know, it's not so bad. You know, now that the private equity's buying up all the other places, there's more unique environments with private practice. So it's kind of. Kerry Giedd: Yeah. And, and I, You know, I think for, for, for me and many of my colleagues that I know that you, You know, the, their burnout is a real thing, right? and in our profession and in many, You know, healthcare professions and many professions in general, and, and seeing patients full-time, five to six days a week, as, as some people do, I think is, is really a recipe for that. we all know we make the most money. We're all driving revenue, we're in the exam room, and there's a lot of other stuff you can delegate outside of that, but, but it's exhausting to talk to patients all day and solve their problems all day and chart. And, You know, obviously there's things you can, can delegate even within that of course, but it. I really think [00:20:00] that, You know, for, for as many people that are coming into this profession seeking, You know, the, the balance that optometry has had to provide, designing a, a practice that allows you to see patients, whatever, two to three days a week. I've been two and a half days a week for 20 years, seeing patients, and of course I work a lot more hours than that, but You know, I can, I can do that on my own time. I can pick up my kids, I can go on field trips, I can take 'em to college and, and somebody's always there to have my back at the practice. Ankit Patel: Yeah. That's nice. Uh, and, You know, as, I would, I do wanna touch on the, you, You know, you're doing stuff with speaking, you're, you're doing things with American, uh, a OA, uh, you're doing things with local community. That's a lot. Right? And so tell us about how that has, was that more just for you personally or was that for the business or A little bit of both? Kerry Giedd: You know, I, I think for me, I, I went to Ohio State and I, I don't know how other schools necessarily compare. I only know what I know, but I Ankit Patel: Yeah. Kerry Giedd: master's while I was there and, [00:21:00] and got, You know, really, brought into a family of research based Optometrists there at Ohio State. And, You know, the, the people that have been deans since And so forth, and that community really. Built just a, a passion for me for the Academy of Optometry and, and doing things like incorporating clinical research into my practice and, You know, that all that stuff's kind of peripheral to my, my main life. I'm, I, I'm not, You know, doing the research all the time or, or whatnot. But, um. You know, I just really, from my infancy and my career, I, I, I really just developed a passion for being involved in other things. I think it's just true to my family and who my husband and I are as people in terms of giving back, I think we've been, You know, we came from families that were very, uh. You know, we didn't, we didn't go on vacations. We, You know, a, a special trip was like, You know, going to a hotel an hour away with a pool. You know, like there's, Ankit Patel: Yeah. Kerry Giedd: Just didn't have any extras. We were well cared for. We had what we need needed. We had parents who loved [00:22:00] us, but we had no extras. And optometry has blessed us so much that like, at least I can do is, You know, help help people out that, that have, You know, been on a different path. You know, there's people that work way harder for me. Than me for way less. And, and, I just truly, it is my faith. It's, it's just a lot of things, You know, but, You know, giving back personally, professionally is, is important to me. So finding time for that. It, it, it's true. Like, it, it's that work life balance thing on paper sometimes looks better than it is and, and, there's peaks and valleys in that, but, You know, you, you make time for what's important and. You know, you figure it out. You know, my kids are grown and flown largely, so now I've, I've got, You know, more of that, those di those things have grown into my, my free time as well. Ankit Patel: Yeah, I like that. and, And so what, um. Well, how are you all dealing with like staffing challenges with insurance reimbursement? So those are some common [00:23:00] challenges across the board, like how are you dealing with that? Kerry Giedd: Yeah. You know, I, we, we, we went through COVID and we were really fortunate. Like, I feel like we, we had this great team, You know, we, we really bonded through COVID. We didn't fire anybody or furlough anybody. Nobody missed a paycheck. It, and it just was. A terrible time that we weathered that storm pretty well as a business. And, and, and then, You know, as the Great Recession came and just, You know, life, life happens, You know, working as a tech and optometry practice is a, is a bit of a dead end job. You know, there's not a lot of room for growth and, and opportunity. So people. You know, pass through and, and move on. So anyway, You know, as, as the years have followed since COVID, I, I think we, there were, we were a little bit of a delayed, realization of these challenges that people had been facing a little bit sooner than us. But, it's hit, You know, we've, we've been trying to, to fill a position or two on and off a year or two, and, and the applicant pool is different. The, the. Just the, the capacity to, to [00:24:00] manage things and multitask within the office. It's, it does seem like it's a different workflow, so, You know, we're, we've had to adjust accordingly. we have done some, uh, You know, resourcing outside the office and, and, uh, You know, I'll give you a plug on that, on it. We've used my business care team and have a great virtual assistant who, uh, You know, helps us with a lot of different things, administratively that don't need to happen in our practice. and that covers things from filing, insurance and vision plan claims, uh, or, or apply applying EOBs, managing appointment requests online. Um. A lot of patient communications through email or, uh, text. and, and, and we can just delegate whatever. I can send her a task through my EHR, and say, Hey, just can you do this for me? And, and, and she'll do whatever. And, that's been been a great thing. We're still building her skills. I, I do think, You know, as, I don't need to tell you, [00:25:00] but for people that have been on that path with. Virtual assistants and are considering it. I think you have to realize, like you, you have to put the work in. They don't come in knowing, You know, how your practice operates and they have a foundational knowledge a lot of times, and ours did, and she's great with the English language, even though it's not her first language. And, and that's all wonderful, but it's. They're, you have to pour into them a lot. And she's not in our office to see our culture daily. And so, so there's some work on that. But, but for the affordability as well as the way you can preserve the culture and the capacity of your onsite team, You know, their, uh, mental, You know, health or whatever you wanna call it, as best you can, where they're, You know, running, running themselves, spread thin, You know, outsourcing some things that way has been opportunity. Ankit Patel: Yeah, that's good. Kerry Giedd: in terms of, yeah, the reimbursements, we've cut, we've cut vision plans. We only take VSP at this point, You know, uh, we've never taken too many of the lower [00:26:00] level ones. We don't take imed, we use Anagram, and Ankit Patel: Mm-hmm. Kerry Giedd: Anagram has, um. For us, it's been a great thing. we've been on that a long time. As for, for, just for recap, for those who don't know that, but that allows you to pretty seamlessly file outof network benefits. you can use the term open access provider with patients. And so for that patient who calls and says, oh, You know, do you take Davis? Oh, You know, good news, Mrs. Smith. You can still use your re your, your, uh, benefits with us. We're an open access provider. You'll come to us, you will pay us as a private pay patient, but we're gonna do all the legwork. You're gonna get some reimbursement from Davis in the mail, and we'll do that for you. So, know, things like that, know, for us. think that's been a, a great avenue and, and other people have different beliefs on that, but I think that's what, You know, makes small business, small business, You know, is, is we find our way. And, and, uh, I know even, even Nathan Hayes, our friend from IOC and otherwise has, You know, he'll, he'll sometimes, uh, [00:27:00] comment even in a room full of people that, uh, he doesn't agree with some, some of the, some of the unconventional things that maybe we've done and, and, and, You know, design our practice. But, um. But it usually does give us credit that it's worked out really well for us. So, You know, you gotta find your way. I, I, I know like many of us, and I, and you included, You know, we, we love business books, we love business podcasts. We love, You know, learning and, and, You know, outside of optometry and one, one book that came way too late in my career, probably five to 10 years after I opened Optometry practice. That I always still reference to people nowadays when they're opening a business is the E-Myth and, and just that concept of like, you could be the best doctor. I don't care if you graduated first in your class, you did all the things, you were a valedictorian of everything. That does not mean that you are gonna run a successful optometry pla practice or that you're gonna like to run an optometry practice. And so that, know, the pie store analogy is the one in the, in the book, but I think that just really resonates. And when, when. [00:28:00] You think about your, You know, what you want your day to look like, what do you enjoy doing? do you hate doing the books? Okay? You can still be a really successful private practice owner because you can certainly outsource that to another individual. You delegate to someone like Nathan and his team at Books and Benchmarks. You know, you, you name it, you, You know, you don't have to do that, but if you really don't like. Managing people. you don't wanna, You know, deal with the operations. You know, that's probably not for you. Right? Ankit Patel: Yeah. Kerry Giedd: I think really discerning that. I, I think I, I loved that book just 'cause it just articulated so concisely and directly. You know, that, that difference And, and when you're discerning, like, do you, you really are is business ownership. Even if you love to, to make pies or love to do optometry, that doesn't mean you're gonna love, Ankit Patel: Yeah. Kerry Giedd: Practice. Ankit Patel: Yeah, I think, I think that's, yeah, I like that book too. It's a good book. So especially if You know someone who doesn't know anything about business, it's a great place [00:29:00] to start. So, Kerry Giedd: Yeah. Ankit Patel: Um. So what are you excited about looking in the future? We kind of touched on it with your private ownership, but you, either you personally or the industry or You know, I'll let you kind of take that question wherever you you want, but yeah, what are you most excited about? Kerry Giedd: Yeah. Ah, good question. You know, I, I am excited that optometry is, I really, truly believe alive and well, You know, in, in the future forecast, even with ai and even with ways that'll hopefully make our jobs easier. I think that's. My greatest hope, um. You know, I, I think that one thing that I've continued to struggle with is, and, and many have mastered this so much better than me, so I, I have many people to learn from, in the profession, but just, know, charting the way that I want and getting that done, whether you're delegating that to scribe, delegating that to some. Version of AI that really hasn't been perfected yet. You know, that's just the, that's the, the part I hate, You know, the most about my day and, and sometimes the thing [00:30:00] that slows me down. And so I look forward to things like that where I can really engage eye to eye one-on-one with my patients even more, and not have some of that, that stuff. So I'm excited and just a basic practice functionality level for things like that. Um. You know, I, I, I'm excited for the next chapter of, of my life to get to, to hopefully we're, You know, we'll bring in perhaps a young associate or two, or, You know, look to that next chapter to, You know, continue to practice. I love that optometry allows you to practice indefinitely, perhaps, You know, as long as you want years and years down the road, but still have the, the, You know, the shared, You know, continuing to share that with others. You know, I, I'm trying to think. 'cause I, it's, I. I don't know that I've been as forward focused as to say what I'm excited about, but I've continued to enjoy the ride. Ankit Patel: Yeah, that's a good, that's, that's, uh, that's really good to hear. I think, You know, it's, it's nice to hear an optimistic tone. with. Kerry Giedd: You know, well, You know, it's [00:31:00] not always, You know, there, there's always something, but, and I, and I don't wanna be, You know, I don't wanna mislead people, right? Like there's, there's stuff every day that's, that's going down and, and, uh, there's always a fire to put out, You know, surrounding yourself with great people, uh, which is easier said than done, of course, because like we talked about, the applicant pool and the job market is harder than ever. But, You know, I've got an awesome office manager. Awesome. Staff, uh, You know, and we've been really fortunate. Despite, You know, the, the, the trends, You know, finding those needles in the haystack, and, and taking care of your people. You know, they Ankit Patel: Hmm. Kerry Giedd: Building a culture that they wanna come and they wanna stay, You know, that's when people struggle with that turnover, right? Like, there, there's definitely some self-reflection in that, that should come. Of course, You know, well, how can you, how can you make it a place where you're not hiring all the time? You know, if you're, if you're actively hiring, because you always wanna look for those, those gems that might be hiding, but that's one thing. But if you're always hiring because you're always short staffed, Ankit Patel: That's another, [00:32:00] yeah. Kerry Giedd: Than a, than a than a applicant problem. Um. You know, I, I think in terms of doing business with your patients, and another thing I'm just really passionate about is, is You know, patients want, right? Don't they want to be easy to do business with you? Like, anybody wanna have to call you and wait for the phone to ring and hope somebody get answers and be put on hold and be transferred? No, I, I don't even wanna make a nail appointment. By calling a human being like, I, I don't wanna call my doctor. but I wanna go. And so I think there's, a lot to be said for, for that and, and, and our success as a practice and, and things that patients really love about us outside of the. Personal component. And not to be sounding like I'm tooting my own porn or whatever, but the, if, if, if someone's out there not really engaging, You know, with two-way texting and online scheduling and, know, a somewhat up-to-date website that allows. You know, you had to do [00:33:00] business and sell contacts and, You know, pay bills either through text or online. You know, just some of those basic things that I don't think any of that's particularly, You know, not, You know, but that, that's all should be kind of the, the bare minimum at this point. But I still feel like there's a lot of opportunity for a lot of practices. Out there to, to, to be attractive to patients in that way and, and be easy to do business with and say no with a yes. You know? Yes, Mrs. Smith, You know, I know you'd love to see Dr. Gee on Wednesday. How does Thursday work? I never see patients on Wednesday. You're never gonna see me on Wednesday. It doesn't matter if you're gonna wait six months, I'm not gonna be there on a Wednesday to see you. Uh, obviously we don't tell our patients that, but You know, how do you phrase that to the patient? Building your culture around that, where the people are happy to come see you and you're, you're, you're kind of getting ahead of the problems. I mean, it, it makes for a, a, a culture that people wanna be a part of. Ankit Patel: I love that. That's, there's a lot of gold in what you just said. I think so with the, with the culture, with the, uh, say yes. For, for the, no, that, that's, that's really, really insightful. I, I, [00:34:00] so I think, uh, we could probably talk a couple more hours just on that. Uh, maybe want to back, back, have you back on at some point to dive deeper into that, that culture piece. Kerry Giedd: Sure. Ankit Patel: So I'm gonna shift a little bit. Uh, can you share with us a story that was formative for you? Someone, something that made you who you are today. Kerry Giedd: I'm kind of winging it here, thinking about what, what just, You know, charted my course, changed the trajectory, that, that kind of thing. my first job in optometry, when I was in an undergrad and, and I worked for Tom Quinn, who's kind of a, a legend and our profession in, in Athens, Ohio. I went to school there and, uh, You know, working with Tom and his wife Susan, and, and their team there was so, uh. It was just a place that I admired so much. I had been pre-med and thinking I was gonna go to med school and kind of discerning where my path was and, and, [00:35:00] and I got into their practice. And, and at this point I had kind of thought about optometry. It wasn't, it wasn't like, it wasn't not on my radar, but I had worked with a lot of MDs who were NDOs who were just, not really recommending that as a career path and, and. And I think of that experience and, and Tom's been a mentor to me. We actually do a mentorship module for the Academy every year together. And, and, You know, he is not somebody I call every month to even talk to or, or get advice from. But having someone early in your career, and if you don't have a mentor and you don't have someone you can ask, seeking that out I think is, is really important. Someone who's, who's not just in your backyard necessarily, or even in optometry necessarily. Um. I, I think of how he shaped my view of what the potential for private practice and incorporating clinical research into your practice and still loving your family so well, and, and showing up for your kids. You know, he, he just modeled that for [00:36:00] me early in my career in ways that I, I saw, You know, very directly and intimately when I worked for him. So, um. I don't know if that's a, a one one event or one, one set of, You know, token words, but that, that always, I always remember my time in their office And so there's that. You know, when I had my first job this practice that I thought I scored this amazing job and I was gonna own this practice, and it was, You know, making all this money and all this stuff and, and, uh, saying anything to, uh, harsh to the, to the doctor that owned it, I just kind of realized, clinically how much. Lacking There was and, and there was just so much missing from the depth of knowledge. I think it's one thing when you can be, um. Loved by your patients and, and her patients really did love her, but also you, you, you need to balance that with, with the, the clinical acumen [00:37:00] and the knowledge to back it up and, and treat disease the right way or know your limits and refer it when you don't billing ethically. things like that and, and. You know, I, I saw a model for me in that job. Some things that were, just not what I wanted to be. You know, on, on the surface it looked like a great job and there was just, a lot of things behind the scenes that were not, not doing business the right way. So, You know, that those kind of things are really shaped me and then led me to say like, Hey, You know, like, I'm just gonna do this myself and, and got a, You know. I found somebody to do it with me and, and, and, uh, we decided that over sushi one night, we were, uh, we had a tech who worked for, with both of us in different situations and was going off to optometry school and we were taking her off, out to sushi. that sushi restaurant is still, You know, down Ankit Patel: There. Kerry Giedd: My house Ankit Patel: Yeah. Kerry Giedd: To this day. And, and, and we got to talking about how much it sucked in these places we were in. And we decided right then and there, Hey, hey, let's just, [00:38:00] let's just do this together. Let's figure this out. Ankit Patel: I like that. I like that. Uh, so knowing what You know now, what would you give to yourself as advice one week after graduating OD school from Ohio State? I. so a, a week after I graduated OD school, I'll give you a little, a little bit quick sidebar, is, I got married to someone who also graduated from Ohio State. That same. I did. So, and we, the next week picked up and moved to Florida. I had, uh. Been born and raised in Cleveland, didn't necessarily have a distinct plan to stay there, but, uh, didn't necessarily have a plan to, to, to not stay there and met who, You know, was then my husband, who had, had lived in Florida for a while. Kerry Giedd: And I thought, gosh, Orlando sounds a little nicer than Cleveland. Let, let's try that. So, You know, we packed up our bags. I had. job. No. Very unsure of what I was gonna do. And so when I look back at those days, I was young, I was excited, I, You know, was in love. I was, You know, all, all the things. [00:39:00] But I really didn't at all know what was gonna happen. And, and, You know, I, I, I. Didn't know, seeing what Tom had modeled for me at, in his practice, his wonderful successful practice with his family and everything looking also so desirable. The gap between what I saw there and me just picking up and leaving a thousand miles and not knowing where I was gonna go and go. I, I, I really didn't know how I was gonna get from A to b. I didn't even know how I was gonna get a Florida license 'cause that was known to be really, really tough. and I would say, You know what? You know, you've got the grit. You, you've got the, You know, you've got the desire and it's gonna all work out. Don't live beyond your means. Pay your debt, You know, start slow and, and the long game, is great. And, and optometry is, is a unique profession and how we can change lives, very directly, oftentimes, very quickly. You know, it, the. [00:40:00] The opportunity to own a business and have the retail and the fashion component and, and the medical, for me was really exciting then. And it's still really exciting now. yeah, I, I would just say, You know what? Do follow your heart, follow your passion. Don't compromise your integrity. Um. If you, if you take a job you don't like, just like my own employees that now I would say I should hire, You know, hire slow, fire fast. Ankit Patel: No. Kerry Giedd: Should leave fast if it's not right. Ankit Patel: Okay. I like that. I like that. So, uh, Carrie, if people wanna reach out to you, where can they, where can they find you? Kerry Giedd: Uh, know, they can connect with me. you can put. Gmail, Carrie gee, at gmail on the show notes if you want. they can find me through my practice. Uh, You know, I don't mind if people have my cell number. I'm not always the fastest texter to reply, uh, if it's not urgent. [00:41:00] But, uh, yeah, I go on LinkedIn, not every day. You know, those, those, those, uh, those notifications stack up. Ankit Patel: Yeah. Kerry Giedd: But I am on social media if you wanna find me any of those channels. or, uh, Carrie Gita Gmail. Ankit Patel: At Gmail. Okay, gotcha. We will, we'll put that in the show notes if you're okay with that. So, Kerry Giedd: Yeah. Ankit Patel: oh, excellent. So, well, thank you again, Carrie, for being a guest on the show. Kerry Giedd: Thank you. Thanks for having me. I really appreciate, uh, the opportunity and, and it's been great getting to know you over those last few years and seeing you at ioc and appreciate again, You know, the, the connections and, and, uh, resources you've brought our practice and to many others through my business care team and, and, uh, love, love what, uh, that's done for us. So thanks for everything. Ankit Patel: No, thank you for those kind words. And, You know, one of my takeaways, uh, from this is, You know, uh, it's almost like there are business models that work, even though it may not be conventional wisdom. You almost did everything [00:42:00] exactly the opposite of what people say as conventional wisdom and had a very successful career and lifestyle because of it. It's amazing to see that. And so I think there are ways, finding the right partners, finding the right channels, finding the right mentors to help guide that are really critical. So thank you for sharing that. Kerry Giedd: Thank you. Ankit Patel: and thank you audience. If you learned anything or laughed or please share the podcast with a friend. Uh, and if you hit the subscribe button, you won't miss an episode. And there's a meeting link in the show notes, and if you book that, I'll send you a free copy of my book. Optometry Redefined. Uh, thank you again, Dr. Gid, and this has been another exciting episode of Optometrist Billing Empires. We'll see you next time. That's a wrap on another episode of Optometrists Building Empires. Thanks for joining. For show notes and more Visit Building Empires live. This show is proudly sponsored by my business care team. My business care team was born out of staffing challenges. My wife and I faced together managing multiple optometry locations. We refined our approach at classic vision care and now offer our expertise [00:43:00] dollars. If you're experiencing challenges with staffing and you'd like to set up a discovery call, we'd be happy to help you and connect you with the right resources. We'll see you next time.