Latest / Bucco Territory: A Pittsburgh Pirates Podcast / Stay or go: What should the Pirates do with Mitch Keller?

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Stay or go: What should the Pirates do with Mitch Keller? · Bucco Territory: A Pittsburgh Pirates Podcast

0:09
Speaker 1: What's up, everybody?
0:10
Speaker 2: Welcome back to another episode of Buco Territory, part of
0:14
Speaker 2: the Foul Territory Network. I'm Noah Hiles and joining me
0:17
Speaker 2: as always are my two wonderful co hosts, Josh Harrison
0:21
Speaker 2: aka j Hay and Platinum Key aka Mark Fellas. Week
0:26
Speaker 2: three of the show. It's still going. We're growing. Want
0:32
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Speaker 2: the middle of the street and yell hey, subscribe to
0:53
Speaker 2: Bucko Territory. That's what we need from you all. And
0:57
Speaker 2: we also need to just talk some baseball. It's been
1:01
Speaker 2: too long I missed not recording with you guys. How
1:04
Speaker 2: first off, casual talk. How was everyone's weekend?
1:06
Speaker 1: Good?
1:08
Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah? We had our third basketball game coaching sixth
1:12
Speaker 3: grade basketball head coaching my daughter's sixth grade basketball team.
1:16
Speaker 3: We had two games this past week, so we're off
1:19
Speaker 3: to a three o start. The girl's been playing hard.
1:23
Speaker 3: That's all I can ask for is they play all?
1:26
Speaker 2: How's the press working out? We were talking Free Show
1:28
Speaker 2: last week about the press. How are they running it?
1:31
Speaker 3: Well, oh yeah they are. It's called a few teams
1:35
Speaker 3: by surprise. The game on Sunday was definitely a test
1:39
Speaker 3: because the team pressed us as well. So it's kind
1:42
Speaker 3: of you know, like the Spider Man meme where you're
1:44
Speaker 3: pointing and you know it took us, you know, a
1:48
Speaker 3: half to get adjusted. But fourth quarter we went on
1:51
Speaker 3: the thirteen oh run to close the game out. We
1:53
Speaker 3: were losing about four going into the fourth quarter and
1:56
Speaker 3: went on the thirteen oh run and that pressure warmed down.
1:59
Speaker 1: That's how you think it's the game day.
2:01
Speaker 2: What's the game day fit for coach Harrison is it?
2:03
Speaker 2: Is it a suit and tie or you sweatsuit?
2:06
Speaker 1: Do you have powl? Like Big John Thompson, Like, what
2:08
Speaker 1: are we looking like here?
2:10
Speaker 3: So that we have polos with the school name on
2:13
Speaker 3: it month you know, like it says basketball and you know,
2:17
Speaker 3: I just wear some black sweats and you know match
2:20
Speaker 3: it with uh, you know, some type of dunks or
2:22
Speaker 3: something that matched the blue in the black because the
2:25
Speaker 3: school colors are like blue and white. So you know,
2:28
Speaker 3: I'm trying to be color coordinated like I was on
2:30
Speaker 3: the field.
2:31
Speaker 1: I like that, Mark, How was your weekend?
2:33
Speaker 4: It was awesome. Went down to Beaver County, Pennsylvania. So
2:36
Speaker 4: I was there for a sixtieth birthday party. So I
2:39
Speaker 4: was all family stuff. Couldn't see anyone, very quick trip. Yeah,
2:43
Speaker 4: I know, I felt that I was like shore, let
2:45
Speaker 4: anyone know, and you just be like, well, I can't
2:47
Speaker 4: hang out, but I'm here, I'm close, could wave to you.
2:50
Speaker 4: Uh But yeah, So doing a bunch of family stuff
2:53
Speaker 4: like it was awesome. So how about you know?
2:56
Speaker 2: I mean, I was in Annapolis Saturday, Friday and Saturday
2:59
Speaker 2: for story and then I covered the Steelers Sunday.
3:03
Speaker 1: Interesting Steelers game, say the least.
3:06
Speaker 3: I uh.
3:09
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, Well there's a video on my x account
3:13
Speaker 2: of me interviewing a certain Bengles wide receiver who spit
3:17
Speaker 2: on someone and it's like the biggest story in sports
3:20
Speaker 2: right now, and I'll be getting Twitter notifications for the
3:23
Speaker 2: next thirty years because of it. But yeah, an interesting weekend,
3:27
Speaker 2: seemingly for all of us.
3:28
Speaker 1: But let's get into some interesting.
3:31
Speaker 2: Baseball topics now Fellas the topic of this episode pertains too,
3:37
Speaker 2: none other than Mitch Keller. We've kind of hinted at
3:40
Speaker 2: this topic in recent episodes, and this has been a
3:43
Speaker 2: discussion if you followed the Pirates this past year, really
3:47
Speaker 2: the past year and a half or so, when are
3:50
Speaker 2: they going to trade Mitch Keller. The speculation of Keller
3:56
Speaker 2: getting moved actually dates back almost a year to this day,
4:01
Speaker 2: almost a year.
4:03
Speaker 1: It started in the winter meetings this past year.
4:05
Speaker 2: Myself and Andrew Deston, my former co worker at the
4:08
Speaker 2: Post Gazette, learned this at the winter meetings, that they
4:11
Speaker 2: were shopping him, that they were listening on offers for
4:13
Speaker 2: Jared Jones. They ended up trading another pitcher, Luis Ortiz,
4:18
Speaker 2: who we talked about a ton last week. That's when
4:21
Speaker 2: the Mitch Keller trade speculation, the trade rumors really started
4:26
Speaker 2: heating up after he signed that extension in twenty four.
4:30
Speaker 2: It carried over into this twenty twenty five season. I
4:32
Speaker 2: learned from sources that they were having conversations about trading
4:36
Speaker 2: Mitch heading into spring training this past year, and then
4:40
Speaker 2: the trade talk obviously intensified a lot. In July at
4:46
Speaker 2: the trade deadline. He was one of the big pitching
4:48
Speaker 2: names that was up for discussion. I reported a ton
4:51
Speaker 2: on it back then ended up playing out where you know,
4:57
Speaker 2: teams weren't willing to give up what the Pirates were
4:59
Speaker 2: looking for. Pirates are looking for an established big league hitter.
5:02
Speaker 2: Teams who are looking to buy at the deadline typically
5:05
Speaker 2: aren't willing to give that away mid season. But now
5:08
Speaker 2: we're in the offseason and the Pirates are looking to
5:11
Speaker 2: change up their lineup, added some offense, and they have
5:14
Speaker 2: pitching to trade away. And it makes the most sense,
5:18
Speaker 2: or does it that they trade away their highest paid
5:21
Speaker 2: player who happens to be one of their better pitchers.
5:24
Speaker 2: That's the topic of the show, So fellas, I want
5:27
Speaker 2: to open up the floor for questions.
5:29
Speaker 1: Josh and and Key and Mark.
5:33
Speaker 2: I'll ask you both flat out, do you trade them or.
5:37
Speaker 1: Do you keep them?
5:38
Speaker 2: We don't have to go any further than that, but
5:39
Speaker 2: just say why you think yes or no.
5:41
Speaker 1: We'll start with you, Josh.
5:44
Speaker 3: You trade them?
5:47
Speaker 1: Yeah?
5:48
Speaker 3: Just listen to everything that you just broke down. One
5:52
Speaker 3: highest paid player doesn't necessarily mean you need to trade them,
5:56
Speaker 3: but his name has been circulated over the past year,
5:59
Speaker 3: and pitching is something that the Pirates seem to have
6:02
Speaker 3: a plethora of, and we already know skeins and being traded.
6:08
Speaker 3: But honestly, if you're trying to make this team better,
6:11
Speaker 3: and as you hint it to Noah at the deadline,
6:14
Speaker 3: teams aren't really willing to trade, you know, a big
6:17
Speaker 3: league hitter at the time. Now's the off season and
6:21
Speaker 3: hitting is something that the Pirates need. And if you're
6:24
Speaker 3: not gonna go get it in free agency, which we
6:26
Speaker 3: don't know if they are, trade are another way that,
6:29
Speaker 3: you know, open up the avenue. So with that being said,
6:33
Speaker 3: I think you trade them to see what you can
6:34
Speaker 3: get back to help with the offense, especially if you
6:36
Speaker 3: have some pitching.
6:39
Speaker 2: Mark, I'm gonna ask you now, and I'm not going
6:42
Speaker 2: to ask you if they should or shouldn't. I'm going
6:44
Speaker 2: to task you with saying, why shouldn't they trade Mitch Keller?
6:47
Speaker 2: Tell me play Devil's advocate to Josh Harrison. Why should
6:52
Speaker 2: they hang on to Mitch Keller?
6:54
Speaker 4: I mean, he's the second longest tenured Pirate behind Brian Reynolds.
6:58
Speaker 4: He's going to bring leadership to a very young team
7:01
Speaker 4: and quality leadership too. This guy's been through every aspect
7:05
Speaker 4: of MLB where he's been one of the worst pitchers
7:07
Speaker 4: in the league. All the way up to an All
7:09
Speaker 4: Star and now he's proven to be one of the
7:11
Speaker 4: most consistent pitchers. This is a guy who has pitched
7:15
Speaker 4: top ten in innings since twenty twenty two. He eats innings.
7:19
Speaker 4: He's a reliable guy, he's durable, he's available constantly. He's
7:24
Speaker 4: a guy that you put into this starting five rotation
7:28
Speaker 4: and forget about he's there whole year. He'll be there.
7:31
Speaker 4: He'll eat probably one hundred eighty ms for you and
7:34
Speaker 4: do it well. And that's a tough, tough commodity to
7:38
Speaker 4: just part with. So I think also you have to
7:42
Speaker 4: look at his contract too. He's only set to make
7:45
Speaker 4: sixteen point five million next year. If you look at
7:47
Speaker 4: comparable pitchers that are being signed in free agency, nearly
7:51
Speaker 4: double that I saw. The Athletic reported that Zach Allens
7:56
Speaker 4: might get a contract around like five years, one hundred
7:58
Speaker 4: and thirty five million, which would be like twenty seven
8:01
Speaker 4: million for your AAV. That's a similar comp to Mitch
8:06
Speaker 4: Keller and almost twice the price. So you're getting an
8:11
Speaker 4: absolute steal as far as talent. You want the Pirates
8:13
Speaker 4: to spend money, you got to also right here, ready, go, ready,
8:17
Speaker 4: help this team win, So that's why I would keep him.
8:21
Speaker 1: So we've heard both sides. I'll just say this.
8:24
Speaker 2: I think it's a shame that they can't do both right,
8:29
Speaker 2: that they can't improve the team and hang on to
8:33
Speaker 2: a pitcher who is an all star, who has rattled
8:37
Speaker 2: like what Mark just rattled off, all those accolades, all
8:40
Speaker 2: those achievements.
8:41
Speaker 1: He's super consistent. Is it Mitch Keller an ace? No?
8:45
Speaker 2: But you get to the playoff by having a guy
8:48
Speaker 2: like Mitch Keller in your starting rotation. When you have
8:51
Speaker 2: a guy on a team full of young arms, half
8:55
Speaker 2: of whom have already had Tommy John or have had
8:59
Speaker 2: some sort of arm or elbow operation, when you have
9:02
Speaker 2: a guy who has not had any injury history really
9:07
Speaker 2: and who can consistently log one hundred and eighty ish
9:13
Speaker 2: innings a year, that's insanely valuable. But when you're in
9:18
Speaker 2: a spot where you have to get rid of them
9:20
Speaker 2: in order to make your team better, I don't think
9:23
Speaker 2: you have a choice. And that's that's the big shame here.
9:26
Speaker 2: So two guys who I think anyone would trade for
9:32
Speaker 2: are our pals, aj Prazinski and Scott Braun.
9:35
Speaker 1: I don't know if.
9:36
Speaker 2: They would bring back a Mitch Keller, but they would
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Speaker 2: All right, big thanks to our sponsors as always. All right, guys,
10:49
Speaker 2: back to the Mitch Keller discussion. So they're going to
10:54
Speaker 2: trade this guy. They probably shouldn't, they shouldn't have to,
10:58
Speaker 2: but they're going to. Now the question becomes, what can
11:03
Speaker 2: you get for Mitch Keller realistically? I mean, Pirate fans
11:06
Speaker 2: they would love if they would love for Mitch Keller
11:09
Speaker 2: to bring in a thirty home run back, a five
11:12
Speaker 2: war everyday player up the middle. That's not probably realistic.
11:19
Speaker 2: So I'll ask both of you, I mean, Josh, what
11:22
Speaker 2: are you hoping to see?
11:23
Speaker 1: It might not be.
11:24
Speaker 2: We'll get into the specifics later, but what what would
11:29
Speaker 2: be a win in your opinion if they could turn Mitch,
11:32
Speaker 2: if they could turn Mitch Keller into something else, What
11:34
Speaker 2: would that something else have to be for it to
11:36
Speaker 2: be a win in your eyes?
11:39
Speaker 3: Everything that you talk about miss being a leader, everything
11:42
Speaker 3: that he's been for the Pirates over to however long
11:45
Speaker 3: he's been there. Mitch's guy has been around, and if
11:48
Speaker 3: you're going to trade him, you have to bring somebody
11:50
Speaker 3: in that is going to be able to make an impact.
11:53
Speaker 3: And an impact isn't always being a thirty home run guy.
11:57
Speaker 3: It could be somebody, as you said, that can be
11:59
Speaker 3: a leader that clubhouse for various reasons, but also showing
12:03
Speaker 3: up that it's showing winning ways. If you want to
12:07
Speaker 3: get back to winning, you have to have winning players,
12:08
Speaker 3: and not saying that Mitch isn't one, but if you're gonna,
12:11
Speaker 3: you know, trade Mitch to get something back that's going
12:14
Speaker 3: to make an impact, you better make sure that somebody's
12:17
Speaker 3: going to make an impact, and that is a winning player.
12:20
Speaker 3: And winning players aren't always thirty home runs guys. It's
12:22
Speaker 3: somebody that can link in the lineup, that can you know,
12:25
Speaker 3: bounce around, whatever the case may be, that adds value
12:28
Speaker 3: to a team that you know is lacking in a
12:31
Speaker 3: lot of different areas. Because Mitch, as you said, has
12:34
Speaker 3: been very consistent since he's been you know, in the
12:38
Speaker 3: big league. So when you get the player back, you
12:40
Speaker 3: want somebody that's gonna be consistent, that's going to be
12:42
Speaker 3: able to produce.
12:44
Speaker 2: Now, Mark, I want to go to you now, question
12:48
Speaker 2: Josh is seemingly pro veteran, you know, essentially get the
12:53
Speaker 2: hit or equivalent of Mitch Keller is what he just said,
12:57
Speaker 2: And in a way, I think that makes a lot
12:59
Speaker 2: of sense. But would you rather do that or would
13:02
Speaker 2: you rather maybe trade him for a couple of one
13:06
Speaker 2: one for one, veteran for veteran, or one for maybe
13:11
Speaker 2: two younger guys guys who are pre are with a
13:15
Speaker 2: lot of years of control, who haven't maybe proven in
13:19
Speaker 2: the big leagues, but have a higher stealing of potential
13:22
Speaker 2: and come with a lot more club control.
13:26
Speaker 4: Yeah. I mean, if you're getting offered like a proven
13:29
Speaker 4: guy like Jaron DuRane one for one, I'm going for it.
13:33
Speaker 4: That's easy. I think that should be like a number
13:36
Speaker 4: one priority. But who knows if that's going to be available.
13:39
Speaker 4: Who knows if the Red Sox are willing to give
13:42
Speaker 4: up a five plus war outfielder, maybe they would be
13:46
Speaker 4: for will You or Brady, but who knows how if
13:48
Speaker 4: they feel one of those is better than the other,
13:51
Speaker 4: or even worthwhile for Mitch Keller. So it at a
13:54
Speaker 4: certain point if you need to trade him and you're
13:56
Speaker 4: not finding those one for one type MLB caliber proven
14:01
Speaker 4: veterans already men all start team or two. Possibly it
14:06
Speaker 4: does make some sense, as much as it pains me.
14:08
Speaker 4: They maybe go for multiple guys, some guys with like
14:12
Speaker 4: team control left. You look at teams that need more pitching,
14:16
Speaker 4: like the Orioles, Like maybe a Dylan Biever's a guy
14:19
Speaker 4: who just got his feet wet, who does everything well
14:23
Speaker 4: in the outfield, young guy with team control, but he
14:26
Speaker 4: hasn't really proven himself in MLB. So I think, obviously
14:29
Speaker 4: you want to go for the MLB caliber talent that's proven,
14:34
Speaker 4: but I don't know how much of that's going to
14:36
Speaker 4: be available.
14:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think what the pirates are probably
14:43
Speaker 2: looking for is something in the middle. They want a
14:45
Speaker 2: guy who's had success but is still probably pre arc.
14:50
Speaker 2: Good luck finding that in a lot of places, right,
14:53
Speaker 2: because it's tough. It's tough to find someone who is young,
14:57
Speaker 2: who's established, also someone that you're willing to part ways with.
15:04
Speaker 2: You have to find a team that's maybe desperate for pitching.
15:06
Speaker 2: You have to find a team that has a lot
15:09
Speaker 2: of depth in certain other areas, and it makes the
15:13
Speaker 2: shopping a lot more difficult. If you are the Pirates.
15:17
Speaker 2: I think another thing that also makes things more difficult
15:21
Speaker 2: for the Pirates is where they stand as far as leverage.
15:26
Speaker 2: Everyone pretty much knows that they're looking to get rid
15:29
Speaker 2: of this guy, right. That's been the talk surrounding Mitch
15:32
Speaker 2: Keller's name since Winter meetings of last year that he
15:35
Speaker 2: is open for business. That teams, if you want Mitch Keller,
15:39
Speaker 2: you got to pay the right price. But the Pirates
15:42
Speaker 2: are willing to part ways with them. And when this
15:45
Speaker 2: discussion goes on long enough, and when you have a
15:47
Speaker 2: reputation like the Pirates where you're not necessarily known to
15:51
Speaker 2: be big spenders, other teams know, hey, this is your
15:55
Speaker 2: only way.
15:55
Speaker 1: To make your team better. You have to get rid
15:58
Speaker 1: of this guy.
15:59
Speaker 2: If he's on your opening day roster in twenty twenty six,
16:02
Speaker 2: you're probably not gonna feel good about the rest of
16:04
Speaker 2: the team around him.
16:06
Speaker 4: So in my response to the Pirates would be, look
16:10
Speaker 4: at the starting pitcher free agent market. You're just as
16:13
Speaker 4: desperate as us to make your team better and also
16:16
Speaker 4: have limited options.
16:17
Speaker 1: I mean, I think you can get this guy for cheaper.
16:19
Speaker 4: Yeah, and so you have a top five. If Mitch
16:22
Speaker 4: Kellor was a free agent among the starting pitching pool.
16:25
Speaker 4: I'd say he's probably top five in that list. I mean,
16:31
Speaker 4: just looking at it, there's like Dylan Ce's Franber Valdez,
16:34
Speaker 4: Ranger Suarez, and like Brandon Woodriff Michael Kinge maybe showeda
16:40
Speaker 4: like He's in that latter range of names. And those
16:46
Speaker 4: guys aren't going to be signing for sixteen and a
16:48
Speaker 4: half million. So you're looking at teams saying you want
16:52
Speaker 4: a guy you can plug into your rotation that you
16:54
Speaker 4: can count on. Well, we want a guy that we
16:56
Speaker 4: can plug into our outfield that we can count on.
16:58
Speaker 4: Give it to us, and that's the only thing we're
17:00
Speaker 4: gonna take. And I think at a certain point that
17:02
Speaker 4: some of these starting pitching picture free agents start coming
17:05
Speaker 4: off the board, you're gonna start getting better and better
17:08
Speaker 4: offers for Mitch.
17:09
Speaker 3: Caller, Oh, I would think. So. I mean they've held
17:14
Speaker 3: on and I don't want to say held on to them,
17:16
Speaker 3: but obviously they haven't gotten, you know, the offers that
17:20
Speaker 3: they have liked from the beginning. But something about baseball
17:24
Speaker 3: pitching is always gonna be at a premium. And guys
17:28
Speaker 3: like Mitch that eat innings but also have done what
17:31
Speaker 3: he's done. I mean, somebody will pay the right price
17:34
Speaker 3: if they want them. It's just a matter of as
17:36
Speaker 3: you said, sometimes you just might have to wait a
17:39
Speaker 3: little longer because you know, it's nobody's willing to sit
17:42
Speaker 3: here and say, oh yeah, we're just gonna trade you
17:43
Speaker 3: flat out. But sometimes you got to play the long game.
17:46
Speaker 3: And as you said last this past you know, trade
17:50
Speaker 3: deadline and stuff, didn't really get what they were looking for.
17:53
Speaker 3: And who's to say that they don't get what they're
17:55
Speaker 3: looking for going into spring training. Things happen during spring training,
18:00
Speaker 3: but who knows. They said they're going to spend more money.
18:03
Speaker 3: Who knows the plans could be to keep Mitch and
18:05
Speaker 3: dip into a little bit of the pocket. So with
18:08
Speaker 3: you saying that they could be optimistic, I'm just firing
18:10
Speaker 3: all angles. But realistically, he's a guy that pitching is
18:15
Speaker 3: going to be at a premium. And with the names
18:16
Speaker 3: that you've named, as those continue to come off the board,
18:19
Speaker 3: there's going to be somebody that possibly missed out on
18:21
Speaker 3: one or two targets. It's like, okay, let's circle back.
18:23
Speaker 3: And you know we weren't willing to, you know, trade
18:26
Speaker 3: so and so, But now that you know, we missed
18:29
Speaker 3: out on who we thought we might have gotten. Hey,
18:31
Speaker 3: let's let's let's go back to the table and revisit
18:33
Speaker 3: this talk.
18:34
Speaker 2: I think treating Mitch Keller helps the Pirates spend more
18:38
Speaker 2: when you look at it, I think getting his salary
18:41
Speaker 2: off the books, it would take their committed payroll down
18:44
Speaker 2: to like thirty million or something like that, somewhere around there,
18:47
Speaker 2: definitely under forty million. So then they could spend fifty
18:50
Speaker 2: million dollars in the off season and be like, hey, look,
18:54
Speaker 2: we've spent fifty million dollars and sixty million dollars, and
18:57
Speaker 2: it gets them right back to a round where they've
18:59
Speaker 2: been the last couple of years. And I think that's
19:03
Speaker 2: why it makes a lot more sense for them. I mean,
19:06
Speaker 2: I personally think it makes more sense to do exactly
19:09
Speaker 2: kind of what Josh like laid out, like go go
19:12
Speaker 2: find someone who is making similar money to Mitch Keller,
19:16
Speaker 2: who can provide similar value, but just on an everyday
19:19
Speaker 2: position player role.
19:21
Speaker 1: And do that. That's how you make your team better.
19:24
Speaker 2: But I think what they'll try to do is probably
19:26
Speaker 2: find someone who's pre art so it's it's basically like
19:29
Speaker 2: you cleared that salary, you address the need, and now
19:32
Speaker 2: you have more money to spend. That just kind of
19:34
Speaker 2: aligns with how this organization does business. So with that
19:39
Speaker 2: being said, I will say I know a couple of
19:43
Speaker 2: teams who were interested in Mitch Keller. I can't say
19:46
Speaker 2: that they still are, but from my reporting and covering
19:50
Speaker 2: this team, I know for a fact that the Red
19:53
Speaker 2: Sox looked into Mitch Keller. I know that the Yankees
19:55
Speaker 2: looked into Mitch Keller, and I know the Orioles looked
19:58
Speaker 2: into Mitch Keller.
19:59
Speaker 1: I know the some other teams as well.
20:01
Speaker 2: But the two teams that I really think are going
20:03
Speaker 2: to make a push for Mitch Keller just based off
20:06
Speaker 2: of prior interest are Boston and Baltimore. And I would
20:11
Speaker 2: honestly say Baltimore has probably had the longest standing interest
20:16
Speaker 2: in Mitch Keller. From conversations that I've had, people have
20:21
Speaker 2: told me that the Baltimore front office has had an
20:24
Speaker 2: interest in Keller well before he was even on the
20:27
Speaker 2: trade market. And I've reported all of this, so some
20:30
Speaker 2: people watching this probably already know that. But he's someone
20:35
Speaker 2: that they've definitely kept tabs on, someone that they're interested in,
20:39
Speaker 2: and someone that after every other team seemingly cooled off
20:44
Speaker 2: on their pursuit toward Mitch Keller, when the Pirates basically
20:46
Speaker 2: set their price and said this is what we're asking for.
20:50
Speaker 1: It was Baltimore still making phone.
20:53
Speaker 2: Calls in the final couple of days of the trade deadline,
20:56
Speaker 2: after everyone else backed off and said we'll circle back
20:59
Speaker 2: in these So I can almost I can confidently say
21:04
Speaker 2: that I think Baltimore is going to be a big
21:06
Speaker 2: player in the Mitch Keller sweepsticks. I don't know if
21:08
Speaker 2: that's where he's going to end up, but you look,
21:11
Speaker 2: and Mark pointed this out, they make a lot of
21:15
Speaker 2: sense when you look at what Baltimore has. They're like
21:18
Speaker 2: the opposite of the Pirates. They have a whole bunch
21:21
Speaker 2: of young position players. Where where do you play everyone?
21:25
Speaker 2: What do you just paid your young catching prospect all
21:28
Speaker 2: this money? What are you going to do with Attlee Rushman?
21:31
Speaker 2: You have Dylan Beavers who was crushing the baseball? Well,
21:34
Speaker 2: what happens with Heston Kurstad? Now what do you do
21:37
Speaker 2: with Kobe Mayo? Do you play them at first? You
21:39
Speaker 2: play them at third, d at dhum? I mean, what
21:41
Speaker 2: are you doing with Mount Castle? Like there's so many
21:45
Speaker 2: guys there, and we don't know how good any of
21:49
Speaker 2: them are going to end up being.
21:51
Speaker 1: Aside from their short stop, he seems like he's gonna
21:53
Speaker 1: be all right.
21:54
Speaker 2: But I mean the rest of these guys are either
21:57
Speaker 2: very young and unproven or guys that haven't necessarily amounted
22:02
Speaker 2: to being.
22:03
Speaker 1: The player that you thought they'd be.
22:06
Speaker 2: And it makes you wonder, could you get a two
22:09
Speaker 2: to four for Mitch Keller there?
22:11
Speaker 1: Or do you go to the other side of the fence.
22:13
Speaker 2: Do you go to Boston and you say, look, you've
22:16
Speaker 2: got like seventeen outfielders. They're all really good, but you
22:21
Speaker 2: can only play three of them. Them's the rules. You
22:24
Speaker 2: flirted with getting rid of Duran before William or Bray
22:27
Speaker 2: You sure as heck would look really good in a
22:29
Speaker 2: pirate's uniform. Or maybe Rafaela the gold glover in center
22:33
Speaker 2: field who can also play a whole bunch of other
22:34
Speaker 2: positions and who has some pop in his back. Guys,
22:39
Speaker 2: I'll ask you between those two teams, who makes more sense.
22:41
Speaker 1: We'll start with Mark.
22:43
Speaker 4: I absolutely love the Orioles fit. If you could get
22:48
Speaker 4: like a Beaver's in Kobe Mayo and address like left
22:51
Speaker 4: field and third base with team control and high upside,
22:56
Speaker 4: two guys that were both you know, top one hundred prospects.
22:59
Speaker 4: I think Beaver's still might be. Yeah, but that's that
23:03
Speaker 4: makes me feel good about the return because there's so
23:07
Speaker 4: much potential there. It might not work out. It might
23:09
Speaker 4: be another case of the Pirates trade away and Ulcer
23:12
Speaker 4: and getting scraps in return that never pan out. But
23:16
Speaker 4: that's two big holes right off the bat there field.
23:19
Speaker 4: I mean, if you can get Jared Duran or will
23:21
Speaker 4: you R Brady, hell yeah, But I'm skeptical Boston's going
23:25
Speaker 4: to part with that just for Mitch Keller. What about you,
23:28
Speaker 4: Josh no spot On.
23:31
Speaker 3: I agree with you Duran or will your will your
23:35
Speaker 3: bra You would be you know, a nice acquisition. But
23:39
Speaker 3: as we kind of alluded to, that one for one
23:42
Speaker 3: is gonna be a little tough. But I also look
23:45
Speaker 3: at the ballparks. I think Baltimore is very intriguing with
23:48
Speaker 3: Mitch and the Sinker and pigeonto that ballpark. Not that
23:53
Speaker 3: Boston isn't. I mean, they're in the same division, so
23:56
Speaker 3: there's no way around it. But I just Mitch with
24:00
Speaker 3: I mean, Baltimore is very similar to p and c
24:03
Speaker 3: uh you know the way that especially with the new
24:05
Speaker 3: dimensions too. But I just think, as you said, even
24:10
Speaker 3: the bunch of outfielders prospects that they have, granted we're
24:14
Speaker 3: not looking to do to to one, but at the
24:16
Speaker 3: same time, they have had a lot of the young
24:18
Speaker 3: guys come up that have been able to play. But
24:20
Speaker 3: it's only so many spots on the field to where,
24:24
Speaker 3: you know what, at some point one of these young
24:26
Speaker 3: guys or two of these young guys may need a
24:28
Speaker 3: change of scenery just you know, not that you know
24:31
Speaker 3: it didn't work out here, just hey, that's the that's
24:34
Speaker 3: the name of sports. And so Mark, I think you
24:38
Speaker 3: hit it pretty much head on, because I would think
24:40
Speaker 3: Baltimore makes a little bit more sense because I see
24:42
Speaker 3: a little bit more of you know, two for one
24:45
Speaker 3: as opposed to one for one. But you know, we
24:47
Speaker 3: can still dream big because you know, the off season
24:49
Speaker 3: is where crazy things happen.
24:51
Speaker 4: Hey, crazy been made. I was thinking, sorry to go ahead,
24:58
Speaker 4: go ahead, go Another team similar to Baltimore is the Athletics,
25:04
Speaker 4: where they have an abundance of young position players and
25:10
Speaker 4: not so great rotation. I mean twenty seventh in starter
25:13
Speaker 4: eu A and eighth and OPS last year, where you
25:17
Speaker 4: flip flop with the Pirates and top ten and OPS
25:20
Speaker 4: or top ten in ERA for starting pitchers and thirtieth
25:24
Speaker 4: in MLB for ops, would you see that as a
25:27
Speaker 4: possible fit?
25:28
Speaker 2: Now, I wouldn't wish that upon mitche Okay, yeah, I mean,
25:33
Speaker 2: like candidly, like going from Pittsburgh to now Sacramento.
25:40
Speaker 3: Where is it that this year?
25:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're still in Sacramento. I I would hope the
25:46
Speaker 2: Pirates wouldn't do that. To Mitch, that was yeah wrong.
25:48
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean it's.
25:49
Speaker 2: Like they get performed, sure, But like I was actually
25:53
Speaker 2: going to suggest, well, I'll say this, I think I
25:57
Speaker 2: think Baltimore is probably the most realistic. I think Boston
26:01
Speaker 2: is probably your best case scenario, especially if you can
26:04
Speaker 2: get a Bray or Durant. I'm probably more trending toward
26:09
Speaker 2: a Bray than Durant. I don't know if Duran would
26:12
Speaker 2: be what this team needs in the clubhouse right now,
26:16
Speaker 2: and I'm just there. But I think there's another way
26:21
Speaker 2: you could go about maximizing Keller's value. I don't think
26:24
Speaker 2: Keller alone brings in a difference maker. You also have
26:28
Speaker 2: one of the best farm systems in baseball, and you
26:31
Speaker 2: have some guys who are very high rated prospects who
26:37
Speaker 2: aren't gonna be able to help the team win this
26:40
Speaker 2: year or next year at the major league level. I
26:42
Speaker 2: look at guys like Seth Hernandez, I look at guys
26:45
Speaker 2: like Edward Florentino who are eighteen years old, and I
26:50
Speaker 2: think both of those guys are going to be absolute studs.
26:53
Speaker 2: But if I'm Ben Sherrington, I'm sitting here wondering, well,
26:56
Speaker 2: are they gonna help me win games at the major
26:59
Speaker 2: league level? Am I gonna be here to see either
27:01
Speaker 2: of those guys? And it makes me wonder what could
27:06
Speaker 2: you get for an Edward Florentino and a Mitch Keller?
27:11
Speaker 2: Could you get a Kateel Marte from Arizona? I don't know,
27:14
Speaker 2: I mean you could you do something like that? And
27:17
Speaker 2: is that worth it? When you look at like a
27:19
Speaker 2: guy like Marte, there's just so much to like there
27:24
Speaker 2: for me. And this isn't me reporting. I don't know
27:27
Speaker 2: if the Diamondbacks have any interest in Mitch Keller. What
27:29
Speaker 2: I do know is that Arizona's pitching rotation stinks. That
27:33
Speaker 2: the guy that they just spent a ton of money
27:35
Speaker 2: on will miss all of next season due to Tommy
27:38
Speaker 2: John Corbyn Burns, and if they just had a couple
27:41
Speaker 2: more Mitch Kellers this past year, they probably get that
27:45
Speaker 2: final wild card spot over the Cincinnati Reds. I know
27:49
Speaker 2: that the Diamondbacks have a jam in their infield. They're
27:53
Speaker 2: looking for a place to play Lawlor. They signed Perdomo
27:57
Speaker 2: to that contract and then he turned into like a
27:59
Speaker 2: set even war player and already already way exceeded the
28:05
Speaker 2: value that contract.
28:09
Speaker 1: MVP voting.
28:11
Speaker 2: And you look at Totel Marte, who I believe still
28:14
Speaker 2: has more control on his deal than Mitch Keller. He's
28:17
Speaker 2: getting paid more money, but if you're actually looking to spend,
28:23
Speaker 2: I don't know if you could find a better addition
28:26
Speaker 2: in this offseason than that guy. I think he's the
28:29
Speaker 2: best second basement in baseball. I think whenever the glove
28:32
Speaker 2: goes away, you can find another spot for him to play,
28:36
Speaker 2: be it first base, be it designated hitter. And there's
28:40
Speaker 2: just nothing in his body of work that suggests that
28:42
Speaker 2: that bat is going away anytime soon. He's someone that
28:46
Speaker 2: you could write in sharpie, not in pencil, not in
28:48
Speaker 2: pen in sharpie. Batting third to tell Marte and if
28:53
Speaker 2: it means you have to sacrifice a couple of prospects.
28:56
Speaker 2: And when I say a couple, I mean I would
28:59
Speaker 2: consider moving. I wouldn't do Hernandez and Florentino, but if
29:03
Speaker 2: it was Keller, Florentino and maybe Valdez or.
29:09
Speaker 4: Valdez, come on, come on.
29:11
Speaker 3: Well, I was gonna say, uh with with teams like obviously,
29:17
Speaker 3: organizations like the Pirates really don't like trading away top prospects.
29:21
Speaker 3: So there you have another hurdle, I would say, because
29:25
Speaker 3: I mean, if you want to win at the big
29:28
Speaker 3: league level, sometimes you have to be willing to trade from,
29:32
Speaker 3: you know, the plethora of prospects that you have. Yes,
29:35
Speaker 3: you may be kicking yourself, you know, in a tail
29:38
Speaker 3: if you feel like Dame Man, that's that's one that
29:40
Speaker 3: we probably shouldn't have traded, you know. But you're not
29:42
Speaker 3: gonna know until the future plays out.
29:45
Speaker 2: You know.
29:45
Speaker 3: But the objective is the win now. And I'm not
29:47
Speaker 3: saying trade every prospect because I know you have to
29:50
Speaker 3: have a form system. But if you have a plethora
29:52
Speaker 3: of prospects, sometimes you can get a little creative and
29:55
Speaker 3: be willing to part ways with one. If you're gonna
29:57
Speaker 3: lump it into as you all are saying. I'm I'm
30:00
Speaker 3: not opposed to that either, because I'm about winning at
30:02
Speaker 3: the big league level.
30:03
Speaker 4: And I think if you told fans, would you trade
30:06
Speaker 4: Edward Florentino for a playoff berth in twenty twenty six
30:11
Speaker 4: while you have Paul Skins, I think every single fan
30:14
Speaker 4: is going to say, Yeah, I love like Florentino's great,
30:17
Speaker 4: completely came on, has a bunch of potential, but I'll
30:21
Speaker 4: risk trading a future All star to get to the
30:24
Speaker 4: playoffs and go from there to.
30:28
Speaker 2: Get to the playoffs with Paul Skins, Yeah, is what
30:30
Speaker 2: you're trading for. Yeah, you're not getting to the playoffs
30:33
Speaker 2: without him. I mean, Edward Florentino might be able to
30:35
Speaker 2: get you to the playoffs, but by the time he's
30:37
Speaker 2: here and gets you to the playoffs, you're not going
30:39
Speaker 2: to have the best pitcher in baseball to just hop
30:42
Speaker 2: on his back and carry you. Yeah, moving someone like
30:45
Speaker 2: that packaging you know, a Blanco junior, a lower rated
30:50
Speaker 2: guy in the system with a top one hundred guy
30:53
Speaker 2: and Mitch Keller And again, I don't know if that
30:55
Speaker 2: gets you can tell Marte and I don't know if
30:57
Speaker 2: they would want to take on that payroll commitment is
31:00
Speaker 2: probably not.
31:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, but that's the type of move I'd be making.
31:04
Speaker 2: That's rather than going one for one or whatever, like,
31:07
Speaker 2: because I know they're looking to trade prospects as well
31:10
Speaker 2: this offseason.
31:11
Speaker 1: Okay, I don't know what level of prospect.
31:14
Speaker 2: I would probably say, like the ceiling would be more
31:16
Speaker 2: like a Tamar Johnson type.
31:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, but.
31:21
Speaker 2: Man, if you want to make a splash, like that's
31:24
Speaker 2: the way to do it. And Josh to kind of
31:26
Speaker 2: circle back to what you said and we can kind
31:28
Speaker 2: of wrap it up on this point. Like when you're
31:31
Speaker 2: a player in a major league clubhouse and you keep
31:34
Speaker 2: reading about how great these prospects are, just from conversing
31:39
Speaker 2: with other players, you think one of two things. All right, well,
31:42
Speaker 2: where the heck are these guys? Why aren't they helping
31:44
Speaker 2: us win games now? If they're so good, or if
31:46
Speaker 2: they're not ready, how about we trade them for someone
31:49
Speaker 2: that can help us win now? Is that kind of
31:51
Speaker 2: the vibe you think that a lot of these guys
31:52
Speaker 2: are having this offseason.
31:56
Speaker 3: I can't speak personally for them, but I know that's
31:58
Speaker 3: a conversation that can be add just because you know
32:02
Speaker 3: at one point guys in the big leagues, majority of
32:04
Speaker 3: them were prospects, so they understand, you know, the need
32:08
Speaker 3: for prospects. But once you've experienced playing in the big leagues,
32:11
Speaker 3: playing at the highest level and knowing the in between
32:14
Speaker 3: the lines, how small the margins are to play in
32:16
Speaker 3: the playoffs, you understand like, hey, man, I want to
32:21
Speaker 3: plan a postseason. You know, once you've tasted it, you
32:24
Speaker 3: want to continue to go back. And that's not saying
32:26
Speaker 3: get rid of prospects, but sometimes you might have to
32:29
Speaker 3: give up a little bit to gain something and you know,
32:32
Speaker 3: sometimes that might be a prospect here there. And that's
32:35
Speaker 3: not to say that we don't care about the future,
32:36
Speaker 3: because you cannot deplete your system. We understand that. But
32:40
Speaker 3: there are certain things when you get pieces in place
32:42
Speaker 3: and you might be able to add to it to start,
32:45
Speaker 3: you know, somewhat of creating an identity, creating you know, expectations.
32:50
Speaker 3: Sometimes you might have to make a move that may
32:52
Speaker 3: be a little bit unfamiliar or uncomfortable, but at the end,
32:57
Speaker 3: you know, Indian it can end up being a bonus.
32:59
Speaker 3: And also, you know, be kind of a you know,
33:03
Speaker 3: a joke to the clubhouse, like oh, Okay, you know
33:06
Speaker 3: they're trying or we're trying.
33:09
Speaker 1: All right, guys.
33:10
Speaker 2: Before we conclude the show, I want everyone to make
33:13
Speaker 2: their pick. What team does Mitch Keller make his first
33:16
Speaker 2: start for in twenty twenty six.
33:18
Speaker 1: We'll start with Mark.
33:21
Speaker 4: Let's go Orioles. I, Like you said, most likely, I
33:24
Speaker 4: think there's just so many avenues to get a deal done.
33:28
Speaker 4: We're both teams walk away feeling like they improve so Orioles.
33:34
Speaker 3: So we're not all gonna have the same team. So
33:37
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna go Baltimore, although that would be my
33:39
Speaker 3: first choice, and I'm not even gonna go Boston, that
33:42
Speaker 3: would clearly be our second choice. But there's a name
33:44
Speaker 3: that you threw out there, Noah, And just from familiarity
33:47
Speaker 3: with the organizations with a lot of trades, I'm gonna
33:49
Speaker 3: go New York Yankees.
33:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, they do a lot of business with the Pirates.
33:56
Speaker 2: That business hasn't always gone well, but they do a
33:58
Speaker 2: lot of business with the pirates. I'm going to go
34:01
Speaker 2: outside the box as well. We haven't talked about this
34:04
Speaker 2: at all to my knowledge, I don't think they have.
34:09
Speaker 2: I don't think i've heard that they're interested, or if
34:11
Speaker 2: they've ever been, but I'll throw them out there. Philadelphia Phillies,
34:17
Speaker 2: I think could make sense. They might be shopping Boem
34:21
Speaker 2: over at third base. They might be losing a member
34:24
Speaker 2: of their starting rotation. Their team could look a lot
34:26
Speaker 2: different depending on where Schwarber goes. You know, they'll have
34:29
Speaker 2: some money moving around if they're looking. I mean, they've
34:32
Speaker 2: already got their ace, right, They've got multiple aces. But
34:35
Speaker 2: if they're looking to stabilize the back end of that
34:37
Speaker 2: rotation at an affordable price for their standards, you could go.
34:42
Speaker 1: You could get rid of Boom.
34:44
Speaker 2: And sign Alex Bregman and still have some Mitch Keller
34:46
Speaker 2: money left over. Thirst rate, So that would be my
34:49
Speaker 2: pot I'm gonna say Phillies and again that's w Yeah,
34:53
Speaker 2: but I.
34:54
Speaker 1: Think that that could be an interesting fit.
34:56
Speaker 4: So I see it.
34:57
Speaker 2: To remind everyone to subscribe. Hit subscribe button if you
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35:25
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35:29
Speaker 7: Yeah.