Latest / When Killers Get Caught with Brittany Ransom / A match made in hell: Paul Bernardo and Karla Hamolka

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A match made in hell: Paul Bernardo and Karla Hamolka · When Killers Get Caught with Brittany Ransom

• 0:21
  Hey there, everybody in serial killer country.
• 0:22
  My name is Brittany. Ransom, and my name is Brian
• 0:25
  Joyner. And this is when Killers get
• 0:28
  caught, a podcast devoted to deep Dives.
• 0:30
  Into the lives and psyches The Killers.
• 0:31
  We love to learn about every week.
• 0:33
  We discussed something new and interesting in the serial killer
• 0:35
  world and then we discuss one, well-known or lesser known
• 0:38
  killer, and go deep into their childhood lives methodology.
• 0:41
  And most importantly how they got caught.
• 0:44
  And then because most of your killer fans, love to get a
• 0:46
  little spooked, Brian will lead us down the road of the
• 0:49
  Paranormal or just something that he found to be particularly
• 0:52
  creepy this week. So in the Name of Love this
• 0:55
  February, I'll be speaking only about couples this month.
• 1:00
  My first couple are the notorious Ken and Barbie killers
• 1:03
  from Canada, Karla Homolka and Paul Bernardo and are topical
• 1:09
  situation this week. Is that New York City just
• 1:12
  discovered a new serial killer. Yay.
• 1:16
  New serial killers, not really new or more, so they found
• 1:20
  someone they were looking for and it's pretty ridiculous
• 1:25
  because he lived in the same building as his victims.
• 1:29
  And it's been going on for a couple of years now.
• 1:33
  It's crazy. All right.
• 1:35
  Oh wait first. Then we just yeah.
• 1:41
  And if anyone notices that, there's anything different this
• 1:44
  week, it's because we are both snowed in and central
• 1:47
  Pennsylvania. So we're recording this remotely
• 1:50
  and hoping that it comes out, all right?
• 1:52
  Hopefully the and as far as Brian talks about, you know, he
• 1:57
  likes to keep that from us until it's time to spring on The
• 2:01
  Spook. Yes.
• 2:03
  So you're not getting that until the spook time but Guys, name
• 2:09
  was Kevin? Yeah, Kevin Gavin, Gavin, Gavin.
• 2:14
  All right, and he killed three to four different, elderly
• 2:19
  women. Great.
• 2:20
  So, there are three that they know of already, but they're
• 2:24
  looking into a fourth victim as well.
• 2:28
  So, yeah, he killed. Oh, and he's elderly to, he's 66
• 2:32
  surely. Also, this, his whole building
• 2:35
  was an elderly community, so, Okay, that makes a lot more
• 2:40
  sense now. Yeah, so he killed them all in
• 2:43
  his own building. Do we have explanations for the
• 2:47
  why yet? Um, not at this moment though.
• 2:52
  I think it's still an ongoing investigation but Well, from
• 2:57
  what I've read it started in 2015 and the most recent one
• 3:00
  happened, Friday, that would be January 29th, right?
• 3:05
  Yesterday night. Yes, right.
• 3:07
  This and the victims are all between 78 and 83, so that's
• 3:11
  pretty intense. I did read that.
• 3:13
  The one woman who they're not sure whether it was murder or
• 3:19
  not. Well, okay.
• 3:20
  So the coroner said, it was a heart attack will correction.
• 3:22
  The police said, it was a heart attack.
• 3:24
  The coroner said she had broken ribs.
• 3:26
  Abs and have been hitting the chest.
• 3:29
  So her daughter is like yeah, that's definitely murder but
• 3:33
  nobody else really listen to the kid so that's why she thinks
• 3:36
  he's part of the so that might be a little Force
• 3:39
  wonder-working. Answer you then.
• 3:40
  Yeah. That's the one they're looking
• 3:42
  into because I feel like how does an old lady get, you know,
• 3:45
  a broken chest wall. I mean, yeah.
• 3:49
  I was going to say, Well they're old but you know, still No, I
• 3:54
  understand people they do have brittle bones as you get older
• 3:57
  osteoporosis and things of that nature.
• 3:59
  But, mmm, an interesting thing that I saw from people who were
• 4:03
  upset about this is that people had been asking for cameras at
• 4:09
  the facility for a really long time and they believe that they
• 4:12
  would have been able to catch him a lot sooner.
• 4:15
  Had they had some level of security at the building.
• 4:19
  Well, yeah, it says that they're adding 65 more cameras, there's
• 4:23
  a building. So So maybe they had cameras are
• 4:25
  ready but they didn't have enough.
• 4:28
  Yeah, I guess they only had four, I'm guessing probably just
• 4:36
  unlike the front door the back door that sort of thing.
• 4:39
  But they need cameras in on every floor.
• 4:44
  I mean, I know in my apartment building there are cameras at
• 4:46
  every elevator. Yeah.
• 4:48
  And the all the entrances as well.
• 4:52
  So That way. At least they can have a visual
• 4:56
  of seeing where someone came into the building and what floor
• 4:58
  they got off on. Right?
• 5:00
  Yeah, that makes sense. So apparently mr.
• 5:03
  Gavin was supposed to be like some type of handyman around the
• 5:07
  building as well, which is, which explains why he would have
• 5:10
  access. This is true.
• 5:13
  So his first victim wasn't the one.
• 5:15
  In 2015 said, he's stabbed her in the neck with a steak Knife.
• 5:21
  That's I guess using what you have around, And you.
• 5:24
  Yeah like I think I think every all his murders were reusing
• 5:30
  stuff that he found in the apartment or their their houses
• 5:34
  and you told me when we were first just discussing, bring
• 5:37
  this up this week that these had to do with some sort of scam or
• 5:42
  money. Okay.
• 5:43
  So no, he's actually besides from being a murderer, he is
• 5:49
  also his scam orders. Okay.
• 5:53
  So did that you think maybe they found out about the scams and he
• 5:56
  took them out? Maybe no.
• 5:58
  I mean, no, not at all. I think that was just his have
• 6:01
  nothing to do with a murder. That's exactly.
• 6:04
  Uh-oh. Listen, it comes up all the
• 6:08
  time, think of all of the different murders I've discussed
• 6:11
  so far, so many of them have ties to like ride.
• 6:15
  It's crazy. I don't, I don't know what this
• 6:18
  connection is but it's a weird one.
• 6:20
  But either way, this is an ongoing investigation.
• 6:24
  And it fits the definition of a serial killer.
• 6:26
  That's for sure. Absolutely.
• 6:28
  I mean, I mean he does have that age that your Gap, so he has 12
• 6:32
  2015. Well, he has won or 2019 as
• 6:35
  well, and another one, I guess 2020.
• 6:37
  So he still has that. Yeah.
• 6:41
  At least a year at least a month cooling off in between every
• 6:44
  killing though I suppose technically it counts at a
• 6:47
  different place since it was in a different apartment each time.
• 6:50
  But that's cutting that rule kind of clothes.
• 6:53
  I think there's a gray area somewhere.
• 6:56
  Yeah they're always has but what a weird thing and that's not
• 7:00
  even counting the fact that I mean there's an unsolved serial
• 7:03
  murder situation going on on Long Island in New York.
• 7:07
  Oh what? I don't know about that.
• 7:09
  No about that. Yeah.
• 7:10
  They were looking for a missing woman and they found a mass
• 7:14
  grave a couple of years ago, and they have now reopened those
• 7:19
  cases and they're trying to figure out like who killed all
• 7:21
  these women on Long Island so they're still trying to figure
• 7:24
  out I guess it's kind of a Cold Case situation now because and
• 7:28
  at one point they got a phone call that named one of the women
• 7:33
  that was in the mass grave, who knows?
• 7:36
  Now they were buried at a beach in Long Island.
• 7:38
  So that's an ongoing thing, New York's, got a lot.
• 7:40
  Going on for it, going on in it, lovely.
• 7:47
  I guess you got a ton of 8 million people.
• 7:49
  A lot of stuff pops off. But in regards, like I said, all
• 7:55
  this month, I will only be discussing couples and not just
• 7:57
  people who kill together couples, but in actual romantic
• 8:01
  Partnerships and I actually need to give a little bit of a
• 8:04
  trigger warning. Before I jump into this, the
• 8:07
  content today is going to contain discussion of sexual
• 8:10
  assaults against children and I perfectly understand if that
• 8:13
  crosses the line for you and you don't want to listen, I will
• 8:16
  attempt to discuss it without going into any graphic detail,
• 8:19
  but I do think it's just responsible to give everybody a
• 8:21
  heads up. Underneath the info section.
• 8:24
  On this podcast, we will give you the time stamps so you can
• 8:27
  skip over any discussion of Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka.
• 8:33
  If this is just one of your limits, right?
• 8:36
  Right, right. Right.
• 8:39
  So for anybody who doesn't know or this is the first time you've
• 8:41
  ever heard of them, the Ken and Barbie killers were a couple
• 8:44
  from Canada who assaulted and killed at least three different
• 8:47
  miners between 1990 and 1992. They were described this way in
• 8:51
  the newspapers because they were to platinum blond standardly,
• 8:55
  Attractive people. And the world was really
• 8:57
  confused as to why they would do crimes like this on his own.
• 9:01
  Paul, Bernardo was also known as the Scarborough rapist and to
• 9:06
  gather their crimes were known as the schoolgirl killings.
• 9:08
  Because all of them were teenage high school girls.
• 9:11
  Oh my God. So, he has three different
• 9:13
  names. He does have multiple names a
• 9:16
  bus for I discussed this monstrous couple that they were
• 9:19
  together. I kind of want to dive into, who
• 9:22
  they were before, they were serial killers.
• 9:24
  So Paul Bernardo was born August 27th, 1964 and Toronto, Ontario.
• 9:29
  He was born into a very wealthy and very dysfunctional.
• 9:32
  Family, his mother had been adopted by a wealthy Toronto
• 9:36
  attorney and given a relatively good life.
• 9:38
  Her name was Arlen. His father, Kenneth Bernardo was
• 9:41
  born to an English and Italian immigrant who created a
• 9:44
  successful marble and tile business.
• 9:47
  But his father was horribly abusive and then Kenneth
• 9:50
  Bernardo left that family business and became an
• 9:53
  accountant. So like his own father, Kenneth
• 9:56
  Bernardo within abuse, his wife, Marilyn struggled with
• 10:00
  depression from that abuse and she would begin having an
• 10:02
  extramarital affair with an old boyfriend.
• 10:05
  It would be a, it would appear that Kenneth tolerated, his
• 10:08
  wife's Affair and we can't entirely be sure of Paul
• 10:12
  bernardo's parentage but Kenneth is listed as the father on a
• 10:15
  birth certificate Marilyn would have two children and then begin
• 10:19
  to withdraw from the relationship actually sleeping
• 10:21
  in the basement away from her family.
• 10:24
  Wow damn. Yeah.
• 10:26
  See every other statement, the Apple doesn't fall far from the
• 10:29
  tree? Yes, Kenneth Bernardo would get
• 10:33
  charged with child molestation in 1975 for touching a local
• 10:37
  child and Lee and his own daughter admitted that he had
• 10:41
  assaulted her and her childhood as well.
• 10:44
  This is more than likely. The reason Kenneth didn't mind
• 10:47
  his wife being with somebody else great because he had other.
• 10:51
  So you sir preoccupy them? Yeah.
• 10:55
  Pretty much. Despite the tumultuous childhood
• 10:59
  Paul initially seemed unscathed by it in the book called lethal
• 11:03
  marriage. By Nick prawn, it said that Paul
• 11:05
  was a really happy child. He was a young boy who smiled a
• 11:08
  lot. But they said he was very cute.
• 11:10
  He had little dimples and that, you know, everybody who saw him
• 11:13
  just wanted to pinch them. He was the perfect child.
• 11:15
  Always polite, well-mannered did well, in school.
• 11:18
  He was a boy scout, that was until he was about 16.
• 11:23
  Paul's parents had a really terrible fight and Marilyn tells
• 11:28
  Paul. Kenneth isn't your real dad?
• 11:32
  Oh oh, drop it like that. Oh my God.
• 11:35
  No, from that point on Paul is repulsed by his mother and
• 11:40
  refers to her as a slob and a whore.
• 11:45
  Yeah, so that relationship there is completely dead.
• 11:48
  He graduates from Sir, Wilfrid Laurier, Collegiate Institute
• 11:52
  and he goes to work for Amway which has a very tough sales
• 11:56
  culture and it's believed that that really had a large effect
• 11:59
  on him and has you know early adult years he bought every Book
• 12:04
  and Tape that he could get his hands on from those You Know
• 12:06
  Rich and Famous experts. And also those guys that teach
• 12:09
  you like how to get girls right. Yeah.
• 12:12
  You remember those being very popular in the 90s?
• 12:15
  Oh yeah. Yeah, of course, those lovely.
• 12:18
  How to get a girlfriend book or how to get pick up, you know,
• 12:22
  pickup artist. Stuff.
• 12:24
  This is what he was indulging in these kinds of books.
• 12:27
  How to make money and get hot girls, things of that nature.
• 12:32
  I know. I know it's funny, but it's not
• 12:35
  funny because he used these techniques in a really bad way.
• 12:37
  Yeah, that's it's terrible, apparently, Paul.
• 12:42
  And his friends from Amway would practice these techniques on
• 12:45
  young women, they met in bars and they were actually really
• 12:48
  successful. And you see, the time by the
• 12:51
  time, he attended the University of Toronto and Scarborough Paul
• 12:55
  had developed these very dark sexual fantasies and he was
• 12:58
  getting off on humiliating women in public, and he this Point.
• 13:02
  He had a physically abused. Every woman he had dated So when
• 13:07
  he meets Karla Homolka and October of 1987, the two of them
• 13:11
  are immediately sexually attracted to each other and
• 13:14
  unlike every other woman, he dated Carla actually encouraged
• 13:18
  the sexual sadism on the women around him.
• 13:26
  Speaking of Carla hurt Early, Childhood wasn't as dramatic as
• 13:30
  Paul's. She was born, Carla, Leanne
• 13:33
  Homolka, and to Dorothy and Carol Homolka May 4th 1970 in
• 13:38
  Port Credit, Ontario. She was the eldest of two
• 13:42
  siblings are actually has three siblings her, other two siblings
• 13:45
  were named Logan and Tammy, her father was a Czechoslovakian
• 13:49
  immigrant and traveling salesman with A serious drinking problem
• 13:53
  and he was indeed abusive to both his wife and his children,
• 13:57
  the sisters of originally kind of banded together through that,
• 14:02
  but I'm not entirely. So sure how close they were
• 14:06
  because of something that goes on later and I'll explain when
• 14:09
  we get to it. But regardless of that, she had
• 14:12
  a pretty normal childhood. When she was young, she liked to
• 14:14
  draw. She was thrilled to be bright
• 14:16
  and very popular. She loved animals and she would
• 14:19
  go into working with animals as her career.
• 14:22
  So the two of them meet at a Scarborough restaurant, October
• 14:27
  17th 1987, and they were both attending a convention in
• 14:30
  Toronto. She was 17 years old and he was
• 14:34
  23. The age of majority in Ontario
• 14:38
  is 18 very similar to the United States and the age of consent
• 14:43
  was 14. Now they met in October, he
• 14:46
  proposed to her December 24th of the scene year and Justin heads
• 14:52
  up just in case you're still listening.
• 14:54
  I would say this is the part of the podcast where things are
• 14:56
  going to get a little sad and definitely very gross until
• 14:59
  Paul, and Karla break up. It's pretty much like this for
• 15:02
  the rest of their relationship. Okay, I would say yeah let's
• 15:08
  give you a heads-up. Let's the skin to it.
• 15:11
  I'm not ready. But you know you know how some
• 15:15
  people get together and it just makes them better.
• 15:18
  Yep, I would say that Paul and Karla meet each other worse.
• 15:22
  Carla encourage, Paul's sadism and Paul was just enthralled
• 15:26
  with how much the stuff seemed to kind of turn him on, or turn
• 15:29
  her on. So the two of them very much fed
• 15:31
  off of each other in this way. So they both met each other's
• 15:34
  toes. Sick at Tendencies.
• 15:36
  Basically, exactly now from 1987 to 1990, they're just a regular
• 15:42
  couple and they're dating, you know, he's working in the
• 15:45
  finance field and sales field and she's working as a, she's
• 15:49
  working in a pet, like a vet clinic during that time, Paul
• 15:53
  sexually assaulted 11, women and attempted to assault several
• 15:57
  others, most of them, he met stalking them when they got off
• 16:01
  of public transportation, late at night, I'm sure to this girl,
• 16:04
  Will residents, it would seem like they're police weren't
• 16:07
  doing a whole lot, but there were a couple of times that Paul
• 16:10
  actually almost got caught after the third attack, the local
• 16:15
  police issued a public warning to all women traveling at night,
• 16:18
  especially those on buses. And then in May of 1988, he was
• 16:22
  hiding under a tree near a bus shelter, and a local cop, who
• 16:26
  was set to patrol, the area saw him and chased him, but Paul was
• 16:31
  able to evade capture then on October. 8888 October of 1988,
• 16:41
  one of his victims started screaming and he got chased by
• 16:44
  some of the neighbors. Because what he would do is he
• 16:47
  would see the girl at the bus stop and he would follow her to
• 16:51
  her home. And most of the assaults happen
• 16:54
  either in the girls. Front yard or backyard of their
• 16:58
  own homes. Wow.
• 17:00
  What? Wow.
• 17:02
  Yeah, I'm sorry. Sorry that I hate me.
• 17:04
  Like it took me a second to day, they hit me but oh my God, and
• 17:09
  they would last from anywhere, from like, 30 to 60 minutes.
• 17:13
  So extra traumatic. It happens at your own house.
• 17:16
  I can't imagine feeling safe in your neighborhood after that,
• 17:19
  right? And you're like, so so close to
• 17:21
  being like safe, like being into your own house, but and then
• 17:26
  someone grabs you, right before you get home.
• 17:27
  Yeah, it's my God. Yeah, it's every woman's
• 17:31
  nightmare. The her.
• 17:32
  And the thing is they they normally tend You, you know, o
• 17:36
  stranger danger? Is it a big thing?
• 17:38
  But in this case, it definitely was, he was not attacking women.
• 17:42
  He knew in real life, he was getting off on the fact that he
• 17:44
  was making these people feel unsafe, right?
• 17:47
  Just picking a random people and just, just causing her life
• 17:51
  stare. Uh-huh.
• 17:52
  All right. Sorry, it's okay between May and
• 17:55
  September of 1990. The police had submitted roughly
• 17:59
  130, different suspects samples for DNA testing, and they will
• 18:04
  receive Of to reports that the person they were actually
• 18:07
  looking for was Paul. Bernardo the first one in June
• 18:12
  was called, in by a bank employee and I don't have a lot
• 18:15
  of details about this. I just wonder what he was doing
• 18:17
  at the bank that made somebody go.
• 18:20
  Hmm. They did have a composite sketch
• 18:23
  from some of the victims. So I wonder if the bank teller
• 18:25
  just called it in based on the fact that he looked like the
• 18:28
  composite maybe now the second one is really interesting, so
• 18:33
  the second call was from a woman named Miss Myrna sand.
• 18:35
  She is the wife of one of Paul's close friends.
• 18:39
  Now, Tina tells the detectives that Bernardo had actually been
• 18:43
  called in on a previous rape investigation, one in December
• 18:46
  of 1987, but he had never been interviewed and she told him
• 18:51
  that he previously like he constantly bragged about his sex
• 18:54
  life to her husband and how much he liked.
• 18:58
  Analingus, rough sex and anal, sex things.
• 19:02
  I never thought I'd say on the podcast.
• 19:03
  But here we go. Well, will you send them
• 19:05
  correctly and very scientifically?
• 19:08
  So hopefully nobody gets the tubes.
• 19:11
  Yeah, now because with Tina making this phone call, they
• 19:16
  bring in Alec stubbornness and this dude is super awkward.
• 19:21
  Like during the interview his phrasing is weird, has its
• 19:25
  tilted and it actually left the detectives kind of unsure if
• 19:29
  they could take him seriously. But after cross-checking several
• 19:33
  different files that Detectives decided to bring in Paul.
• 19:36
  Bernardo, anyway, they interviewed him on November 20th
• 19:39
  1990 and it lasts about 35 minutes and Bernardo actually
• 19:43
  voluntarily gives them samples for forensic testing.
• 19:47
  No, when the detectives asked, Bernardo, why do you think
• 19:50
  you're being investigated for these rapes?
• 19:52
  He goes. Yeah, I guess I do look like
• 19:54
  the, you know, Composites and the detectives after that thirty
• 19:58
  five minute interview conclude that he is just too well
• 20:03
  educated, well adjusted and congenial of a young man.
• 20:07
  He couldn't possibly be responsible for such vicious
• 20:11
  crime. And this is a direct quote, he
• 20:14
  was far more credible than Alex. Smyrna says, who with his
• 20:17
  awkward strange way of speaking, might be trying to collect the
• 20:21
  reward? God what what?
• 20:24
  You know, it's all listening, always happens, isn't it?
• 20:28
  Police always have the guy and then they let him go, I know,
• 20:31
  but he had waited another person.
• 20:33
  Tell him that. Yeah, this is the guy you're
• 20:35
  looking for is a bank teller, right?
• 20:37
  Mmm. And you just are just like, no,
• 20:42
  no, no. You guys aren't right?
• 20:44
  No, no, look at this guy. This guy.
• 20:47
  No, right so well they brought in I guess they brought in the
• 20:50
  wrong Smyrna this because Tina was the one who was like yeah
• 20:54
  that dudes a creep but they broke and her husband instead
• 20:57
  and her husband's like I don't know like maybe I don't want to
• 21:00
  tell him. My friend.
• 21:02
  Was he dead? I mean so he's just weird and
• 21:04
  awkward and so the police just assume that the smartest is are
• 21:07
  trying to collect the reward for information about the rapist.
• 21:11
  So they think that they're just lying.
• 21:12
  Why would you bring in there? The husband's Soul winning the
• 21:16
  way. Wife is the one who told you
• 21:17
  about this. I don't know.
• 21:20
  Oh my God. We'll get into the, the inquiry.
• 21:24
  That happens about this, okay? Okay, at the end.
• 21:27
  But Paul is released the next day.
• 21:31
  Well, he's released. And then the next day, he takes
• 21:35
  a trip with Carla and he promises her.
• 21:37
  That he is not the Scarborough rapist.
• 21:42
  So we move into the next chapter of their lives, which I would
• 21:45
  say, which are then when they begin victimizing, people
• 21:48
  together in 1990, Bernardo is spending large amount of time
• 21:53
  with the Homolka family and they liked him very much.
• 21:56
  He's engaged to the oldest daughter but he flirts
• 21:59
  constantly with the youngest one, who's 15.
• 22:03
  He has not told anyone in the family that he lost his job as
• 22:06
  an accountant. And instead has been smuggling
• 22:09
  cigarettes across the u.s. Canadian border to make.
• 22:12
  Money. I mean, well, at least you're
• 22:15
  making some type of money, I guess.
• 22:18
  Just, you know, violating a whole lot of laws just
• 22:22
  illegally. So, you know, you could, you
• 22:24
  know, throughout the whole time we could have got a legit job
• 22:27
  but, you know, it's whatever I guess, mmm-hmm.
• 22:31
  Exactly. So, but during this time and
• 22:33
  he's living with the mocha family, the two of them are
• 22:36
  living together and they're engaged.
• 22:37
  You know, he's kind of obsessed with Tammy Homolka to the point
• 22:41
  where he is looking at her window entering her room to
• 22:44
  masturbate while she sleeps. Oh my God Carla even helps him
• 22:49
  peep by breaking the blinds to her sisters window so that
• 22:53
  Bernardo can see when he walks by and what the fuck.
• 22:58
  I'm the heck I'll gets worse, it gets worse in July of 1990, he
• 23:04
  takes Tammy across the border to get beer for a party and then
• 23:08
  when they come back, Bernardo tells Carla that they got drunk
• 23:14
  and began making out when they were across the border.
• 23:18
  And over that summer, he supplies Tammy and her friends
• 23:23
  with gifts food and sodas. That is the direct quote to had
• 23:29
  a film, and a few white flecks on the top.
• 23:33
  Oh my God. So you just have to decide what
• 23:37
  drug you think? That is, he was supplying these
• 23:40
  children with, but mind you Tammy and her friends are all 15
• 23:43
  years old. And this man is now in his, he's
• 23:47
  Almost 30. So, what could come on, dude?
• 23:51
  Okay. All right.
• 23:53
  All right, not like this. I know, I know, six months
• 23:56
  before this Carla had stole an anesthetic agent called
• 24:00
  halothane from the clinic that she worked at and the issue here
• 24:05
  was that apparently Paul was kind of hung up on the fact that
• 24:09
  when he met Carla, she wasn't a virgin and so Carla decided that
• 24:14
  she was going to give her sisters.
• 24:17
  Need to Bernardo for a Christmas present, how kind of her she's
• 24:22
  such a sweet. Loving girlfriend to do such a
• 24:26
  lovely, lovely thing. Oh my God.
• 24:30
  So one, December 23rd. They plied the sister with
• 24:35
  sleeping pills and alcohol and when she was unconscious Tammy
• 24:42
  then also administered the halothane on her sister's nose
• 24:47
  and mouth. So they like triple got her
• 24:51
  sedated and with their parent like the parents upstairs.
• 24:55
  They videotape themselves. Raping the girl and her baby.
• 24:59
  Basement bedroom, God sometime during the event Tammy began to
• 25:03
  vomit and aspirate it on it and they tried to revive her.
• 25:09
  And then they called 911 but not before hiding the evidence.
• 25:13
  They read rest her and moved her back into her bedroom and a few
• 25:17
  hours later she was pronounced dead at st.
• 25:19
  Catherine's General Hospital, never regaining Consciousness,
• 25:22
  my God. Now, here's another part where I
• 25:25
  kind of poke at the, the police here and everyone else in the
• 25:29
  Because they call 911. And of course they alert the
• 25:33
  family to it and they also vacuum and wash clothes in the
• 25:40
  middle of the night. And despite the presence of a
• 25:43
  chemical burn on Tammy's face, the Niagara Regional corner and
• 25:48
  the Homolka family except the couple's version of events,
• 25:53
  which is that it was an accidental death.
• 25:56
  She choked on her vomit after consuming too much alcohol.
• 26:00
  Oh really. Yes.
• 26:03
  And I'm what? Nope, no one looks into that
• 26:06
  one. Further closed case, move it on.
• 26:11
  Here's a fun and not fun. Fact, apparently Carla would
• 26:18
  make other videos of her wearing her sister's clothes and
• 26:23
  pretending to be her. Oh my God, they found those
• 26:26
  videotapes at the end. So That's also pretty grotesque
• 26:31
  night, I'm sorry. But after that, they move out of
• 26:37
  the Homolka house to a house in Port to Lucy to allow her
• 26:43
  parents to cope with their grief Port Port de Luci is a, like, a
• 26:49
  neighborhood in the city of st. Catharines and almost instantly,
• 26:54
  as soon as they are permanently, moved into st.
• 26:57
  Catherine's Paul rapes. Another girl and this time she
• 27:01
  was 14 and it happened during the daytime.
• 27:04
  So it was almost like he was trying to do something, not
• 27:08
  typical that he did in Scarborough, right?
• 27:14
  I know this is yeah. When he claims to his girlfriend
• 27:18
  that I'm not the rapist, believe me.
• 27:21
  Well, I think at this point, it doesn't matter.
• 27:24
  This is true. She is 100% in on that.
• 27:27
  Yeah. Today's episode of when Killers
• 27:36
  get caught, is brought to you by the magic claps Boutique which
• 27:39
  happens to be company owned by a very own Britney.
• 27:42
  Ransom, if you seen Brittany and her live streams, she's always
• 27:45
  rocking some awesome earrings. That she herself makes from cute
• 27:49
  ice cream earrings, too spooky mermaid earrings.
• 27:52
  She even makes self-defense keychains so you can look
• 27:54
  stylish and protect yourself. At the same time, the magic
• 27:58
  class Boutique is going to release some special jewelry for
• 28:00
  a podcast next month. So keep an eye out for that as
• 28:02
  well to learn more. More go to
• 28:05
  www.michelintransport.com. So, the two of them, get
• 28:19
  married, and while working at a pet shop, in this new city,
• 28:23
  Carla meets a 15 year old girl and on June 7th, 1981, Carl
• 28:27
  invites the girls her home to hang out.
• 28:29
  They go shopping, they have dinner and then she gives her a
• 28:32
  drink lace with a drug called Halcyon that she's stolen from
• 28:36
  her job. She then calls, Bernardo, and
• 28:38
  tells him. You're writing present is ready.
• 28:43
  They also film themselves. Assaulting this girl.
• 28:47
  And when she only, she doesn't die, she wakes up and she just
• 28:50
  believes that she's hungover because it's the first time she
• 28:52
  ever had alcohol. She'd actually realized that she
• 28:55
  had been assaulted. This happened several more times
• 28:59
  and actually one night Carla, almost kills her, by giving her
• 29:02
  too much of the drug. And she calls 911 and then she
• 29:06
  calls them back and it's like, okay, never mind.
• 29:08
  We're good. Oh my God and they don't I show
• 29:10
  up at the house. They don't show up the house.
• 29:12
  Nope, they do. They do not send 911.
• 29:17
  One Night in December mind you. She met that girl in June.
• 29:20
  So in December, while they're all sober, Carla, tries to
• 29:24
  pressure, the team to have sex with her husband and a teen girl
• 29:28
  just gets upset and leaves and stop speaking the color from
• 29:31
  that point on they don't ever mention her name.
• 29:33
  Any news articles because she was underage when it happened
• 29:37
  and I believe under age when they got caught so they
• 29:39
  protected her identity. Okay, so we move into the next
• 29:43
  victim Paul. All would be driving through
• 29:47
  Burlington and run across a 14 year, old girl named Leslie
• 29:54
  mahaffy. And she had been locked out of
• 29:56
  her house after missing her curfew, and he makes a joke
• 30:02
  about breaking into her neighbor's houses and she asks
• 30:06
  for a cigarette and he says, sure I have them in my car.
• 30:09
  And when they get to the car, he blindfolds her and forces her
• 30:13
  into the car and drive, Is home to tell his wife, they have a
• 30:17
  new playmate. They again take turns torturing
• 30:21
  her and filming it and assaulting her there too.
• 30:24
  And there's even one moment during the video, something that
• 30:27
  they actually showed during the trial where Paul says the next
• 30:31
  two hours are going to determine what I do to you.
• 30:34
  Right now, you're scoring perfect.
• 30:37
  Mmm. Yeah.
• 30:41
  Okay, the direct the, the quotes just Unfortunately, for Leslie,
• 30:52
  it would escalate when her blindfold slipped and it would
• 30:55
  seem that. That is when they decided to
• 30:58
  kill her, Bernardo claimed that Homolka gave her a lethal dose
• 31:02
  of Halcyon. The next day, Homolka claimed
• 31:05
  that Bernardo strangled the girl, regardless, they put her
• 31:09
  body in the basement and then planned for karla's family to
• 31:13
  come visit for the day. God this school or normal lives.
• 31:19
  Yep. Her mom dad and other to sit
• 31:22
  well, one other sister at this point because the other ones
• 31:24
  gone visit for the day, then later on that night, the two of
• 31:28
  them, decided the best way to handle, this would be to
• 31:32
  dismember her and put her pieces in cement.
• 31:35
  And then Carla makes multiple trips to Lake Gibson, which is
• 31:40
  very close to the house. We're talking about like less
• 31:43
  than 5 kilometers. I believe it said it's very
• 31:47
  close to their house. So not only did she do.
• 31:49
  That she dumped it somewhere. Absolutely too close and she
• 31:53
  wasn't the smartest because the thought process here is, if
• 31:57
  you're going to dump like a body with cement, you can't do it on
• 32:00
  the side of the lake. You probably need to like, take
• 32:03
  a boat out in the middle or something.
• 32:05
  Yeah, regardless two weeks later, a father and son are
• 32:07
  fishing and see the pieces of cement resting against the
• 32:10
  shoreline and they report it and the police take it and they're
• 32:16
  able to verify Leslie's. Leti, because she had an
• 32:21
  Orthodontic Appliance in her mouth, which usually have serial
• 32:26
  numbers. All right, so within two weeks,
• 32:30
  they already know that this one girl has been killed.
• 32:34
  And I have to wonder because maybe they were just scared or
• 32:37
  maybe having the videos, they took somehow sated, their weird
• 32:41
  desires temporarily, but it's almost a year before they kill
• 32:45
  again. They go out this time on
• 32:48
  purpose. Looking to abduct someone, it's
• 32:52
  April 16th 1992, just before Easter.
• 32:55
  They see a 15 year old girl. She's leaving Catholic School,
• 32:58
  most of the, actually things, the Thursday before Good Friday.
• 33:02
  So it's like the last day of school before the long weekend.
• 33:06
  and they pull ahead of her into a Parking lot, and Paul Heights,
• 33:13
  and Carla looks at a map. And she's, you know, pretending
• 33:17
  to be very confused. And when the 50 year old girl,
• 33:19
  Kristen French, Tries to help Carla Paul ambushes her and they
• 33:26
  throw her into the car. Over the next three days they
• 33:30
  take themselves assault and Kristin but unbeknownst to Karla
• 33:34
  and Paul Kristin's parents knew right away that something was
• 33:37
  wrong. They knew that her route home
• 33:39
  from school was only 15 minutes. She was not the type of girl to
• 33:43
  just walk off and go somewhere without letting them know.
• 33:46
  And so they did not wait long at all before calling the police
• 33:49
  and the police and unbeknownst to Paul and Karla they had left
• 33:53
  witnesses to the abduction. On top of that, her shoe.
• 33:58
  Who was left at the site where she was grabbed.
• 34:00
  So, within 24 hours, they have a very good picture.
• 34:03
  The police have a good picture of what happened here, that it
• 34:06
  was very serious. And they mobilize a task force
• 34:09
  to begin looking for her. Also, also write this is when
• 34:13
  police are actually doing what they're supposed to do.
• 34:16
  So it's April 18th and Paul is out buying pizza.
• 34:20
  And one of Paul's previous victims named Carrie Patridge
• 34:24
  saw him and report him to the police, they had previously by
• 34:28
  Her case. But it put Paul on alert because
• 34:31
  I think the two of them saw each other and they would decide to
• 34:35
  kill Christine the following morning before going to Easter
• 34:38
  dinner at Carla's family's house.
• 34:39
  Oh my God! I know it's so nice.
• 34:45
  Police would find Kristen's body in a ditch on April 30th 1982 in
• 34:50
  Burlington, which is about 45 minutes from st.
• 34:53
  Catherine's and strangely close to the cemetery where Leslie Lee
• 34:58
  Mahaffey was buried, and I don't think that was accidental.
• 35:02
  Her hair had been cut off, and her body had been washed as a
• 35:07
  forensic countermeasure There are many other situations where
• 35:13
  Carla encouraged Paul as the Scarborough rapist.
• 35:17
  Originally, it seemed like she didn't know but in my opinion I
• 35:20
  don't know. There wasn't a way that she knew
• 35:23
  like when they were going through the house and I'll
• 35:25
  explain it was incredible. The process.
• 35:28
  The police took to go through the house but they found
• 35:32
  clippings of a sexual assault that happened in Hawaii, when
• 35:38
  Paul and Karla, On their honeymoon.
• 35:41
  Like he kept all of the news clippings and it fit his General
• 35:45
  Mo so he raped someone right after they got married.
• 35:51
  Oh my God, just how atrocious. So so lovely, the police
• 35:58
  ultimately only confirmed, 13, sexual assaults and at least six
• 36:01
  attempts, but I think that there were a lot more.
• 36:06
  Now, we kind of get into sort of the aftermath of the situation
• 36:09
  with the two. Teen girls at this point Homolka
• 36:12
  and Bernardo have been questioned by the police.
• 36:14
  Several different times first in connection with the Scarborough
• 36:17
  rapist investigation, than with Tammy Homolka, is death with,
• 36:21
  Bernardo stalking, three, different women and that's all
• 36:24
  before the death of Kristen French.
• 36:27
  And every time they brought Paul in previous cops, just thought
• 36:31
  he was such an unlikely suspect. He's just so well, well spoken,
• 36:36
  well that all changes May 12 1992, a sergeant, and a
• 36:39
  constable interview, Paul again and then three days later, a
• 36:42
  green ribbon task force is created to investigate the
• 36:45
  murders of Leslie, mahaffy and Kristen French Paul, and Karla
• 36:49
  must have sensed the walls or kind of closing in on them
• 36:52
  because they applied to have their names changed legally from
• 36:56
  Bernardo and Homolka. Teal, which Paul Bernardo got
• 37:01
  from the movie from a movie from, in 1988, where the villain
• 37:06
  was a serial killer. So it wasn't even that clever.
• 37:12
  But regardless, we did. You steal.
• 37:15
  Did you get the movie? What it was, it was it was
• 37:19
  called criminal something. Ah, I didn't write it down the
• 37:22
  way I apparently. Missed.
• 37:23
  One of the words. Give me a second.
• 37:24
  I'll find it. I'm sorry.
• 37:26
  No, no, it's fine. It's called criminal law.
• 37:30
  Oh yeah, never seen it. Okay.
• 37:32
  No, it's a, it was filmed in Quebec, so it's a friend, it's
• 37:35
  probably in front. Okay.
• 37:37
  But it's a movie called criminal law and it's about this attorney
• 37:42
  who defends a wealthy, man, I guess, yeah.
• 37:46
  No, actually, the wealthy man is Kevin Bacon.
• 37:48
  Maybe we would have seen this week.
• 37:50
  Hey, Kevin Bacon, it's the Kevin Bacon movie.
• 37:53
  Oh, my goodness, I did not see it.
• 37:55
  But either way, he gets that name.
• 37:57
  Name from the villain who is played by Kevin Bacon at the end
• 38:01
  of May and 1982 a man by the name of John modal and
• 38:06
  acquaintances of Paul. Bernardo also reports Bernardo
• 38:09
  as the possible murder suspect. Oh my God, they're coming for
• 38:13
  you buddy. They're coming in early,
• 38:16
  December 1992, the Centre of forensic science.
• 38:19
  Finally begins testing DNA samples, provided by Paul
• 38:23
  Bernardo three years earlier. I can only get mmm-hmm, I can
• 38:29
  only assume that Paul was starting to feel the stress
• 38:32
  here. He's being interviewed
• 38:33
  repeatedly and he makes I would say a pretty big mistake.
• 38:38
  Because on December 27 1982, he would be his wife.
• 38:42
  Karla Homolka with a flashlight hitting her on the arms, legs
• 38:46
  head and face. Initially she claims she was in
• 38:49
  a car accident and went back to work on January 4th but Carlos
• 38:53
  coworkers are skeptical and someone actually called her
• 38:55
  parents. And her parents show up at her
• 38:57
  house on January 5th, and physically remove her from home.
• 39:00
  They take her to the local hospital st.
• 39:02
  Catharines General Hospital, her injuries are documented, and she
• 39:06
  gives a statement to the police claiming.
• 39:08
  She's a battered spouse and files.
• 39:10
  Charges against Bernardo. There you go.
• 39:12
  He's a rest. Hmm, he's arrested and later,
• 39:15
  released on his own, recognizance and Homolka moves
• 39:18
  in with her aunt, uncle and Brampton.
• 39:23
  I can only say, the next section, I would call the net
• 39:25
  begins to close in twenty six months after the samples have
• 39:30
  been submitted Toronto. Police are informed, that Paul
• 39:34
  barnardo's, DNA matches that of this girl, bro, racist, and the
• 39:38
  immediately placed him on a 24-hour surveillance, I see
• 39:43
  match. Hmm, the Metro Toronto Sexual
• 39:46
  Assault Squad investigates, they interview Homolka and that
• 39:52
  happens. 1983, despite telling them despite the Despite telling
• 40:01
  her their suspicions about Bernardo Homolka, only
• 40:05
  concentrates on the fact that he abused her, then later that
• 40:08
  night after the interview, she tells her aunt and uncle that
• 40:11
  her husband is the Scarborough rapist.
• 40:13
  And that she was also involved in the rapes and murders of
• 40:16
  Leslie, mahaffy and Kristen French, and that they recorded
• 40:20
  them. Hmm, the police simultaneously
• 40:24
  decided to reopen the investigation into Tammy Homolka
• 40:26
  is death. On February 11th 1983.
• 40:31
  Carla meets with the a Niagara Falls lawyer named George
• 40:34
  Walker. Seeking full immunity from yes.
• 40:40
  In exchange for cooperation and she gets placed under 24-hour
• 40:43
  surveillance to on February 14th.
• 40:46
  George Walker meets with Maurice, de Gaulle, who's the
• 40:49
  director of What's called the crown criminal law office in
• 40:52
  Canada. He tells Walker tells
• 40:56
  essentially the equivalent of like America are DEA about the
• 41:02
  rapes and the videotapes and Seagal says, there's absolutely
• 41:06
  no way we can offer this girl full immunity that's outrageous.
• 41:11
  Yeah. Like, I mean, I don't blame him
• 41:12
  like she was involved in all those.
• 41:15
  He's absolutely. So the Metro Sexual Assault
• 41:19
  Squad and the green ribbon task, force arrest, Bernardo on
• 41:22
  numerous charges on February 17th 1933 and they obtained a
• 41:26
  search warrant. Now the Cuz bernardo's links to
• 41:29
  the murders are very weak. The warrant contains limitations
• 41:33
  so no evidence. That was not explicitly listed
• 41:37
  in. The warmint, on the warrant
• 41:38
  could be removed from the property and any videotapes.
• 41:41
  The police found had to be viewed in the house.
• 41:45
  Damage to the house would be kept to a minimum.
• 41:48
  The police were not allowed to Tear Down the Walls to look for
• 41:50
  the tapes. The search of the house
• 41:52
  including updated, warrants lasted 71 days.
• 41:59
  And the only tape they find is a very small segment of Karla
• 42:05
  Homolka. Performing oral sex on the young
• 42:09
  girl that she took out that one night, the Jane Doe that they
• 42:12
  were, they didn't mention in the papers.
• 42:15
  So, I'm a fifth 1993. Her lawyer is informed that the
• 42:20
  governor is going to offer for the government is going to offer
• 42:24
  her. A 12-year sentence.
• 42:25
  Plea bargain. And she has one I'm weak to
• 42:28
  accept it if declined, they would charge her with two counts
• 42:31
  of first-degree murder and one count of second-degree murder
• 42:34
  along with other climes, her attorney with the wisdom that
• 42:39
  only you get from an attorney, he accepts on the spot and then
• 42:43
  Homolka later agrees to it smart, smart, because he
• 42:47
  recognized this was the best deal.
• 42:49
  She was gonna get. Yep, Evergreen, get into better.
• 42:53
  Let me 14th, the plea agreement is signed and she begins giving
• 42:57
  her statements. To the investigators about Paul.
• 43:01
  This plea bargain is been really criticized by many Canadians
• 43:05
  because Paul barnardo's, first defense lawyer whose name was
• 43:08
  Ken, Marie withheld, the videotapes for 17 months.
• 43:13
  Apparently, when Paul knew they were coming for him, he removed
• 43:16
  them from the house and gave them to his lawyer.
• 43:18
  Really? Yes.
• 43:20
  These were considered crucial evidence and prosecutors say
• 43:23
  that they would have never agreed to a plea bargain, if
• 43:27
  they have been able to see those tapes in the beginning.
• 43:31
  In fact Murray was later charged with obstructing justice and
• 43:34
  face a disciplinary nari hearing, with the Law Society of
• 43:37
  Upper Canada, like he almost lost his ability to be an
• 43:41
  attorney. I mean, get because of that.
• 43:42
  Yeah, like why would you even, why would you even think that
• 43:45
  was an okay thing to do? He was defending his book as a.
• 43:50
  Yeah, put little jerk-off know even as a regular like a lawyer
• 43:54
  you cannot do that. You're not supposed to and Yeah,
• 44:01
  Carl, testifies against him to get that 12 year sentence.
• 44:05
  Paul is given a life sentence with possibility of parole after
• 44:08
  25 years. But a year later, he was deemed
• 44:12
  a dangerous offender which is apparently a very serious title
• 44:16
  given to certain criminals in Canada.
• 44:18
  He is still in jail and despite being kept in isolation in every
• 44:22
  prison that he's ever been in. He is not that the best time and
• 44:26
  any time he's been around other inmates, he gets attacked, I can
• 44:30
  see why I'm me too. I'm not entirely surprised now
• 44:35
  in 2006 Bernardo would admit to ten additional sexual.
• 44:40
  Assaults that happened in 1986 before he even met Karla
• 44:44
  Homolka. So that time period where he was
• 44:47
  out there humiliating women and you know using his pickup artist
• 44:51
  techniques he was also raping women too.
• 44:55
  Interestingly enough, the gall he was eligible for parole, I
• 44:58
  believe in the early 2000 watts and he applied for parole in
• 45:02
  both 2015 and 2018, and who has denied.
• 45:06
  When, yeah, his lawyers. Don't think he'll ever actually
• 45:10
  get out of prison because of that dangerous offender title
• 45:13
  that's been added to his name. I hope he doesn't an interesting
• 45:17
  fact is when he was given these psychopathy checklist the same
• 45:20
  one that they gave to Aileen wuornos in the states, he scored
• 45:23
  a 35 out of 4. Be getting a 30 would deem you a
• 45:27
  psychopath. So he almost answered all of the
• 45:31
  questions, like, someone who is a psychopath, would know my God.
• 45:34
  So yeah, no, no, that's okay. You just stay where you're at.
• 45:39
  As for Carlos, family after learning that their eldest
• 45:43
  daughter was, the reason why their youngest daughter died.
• 45:47
  It would believe. It's a Carlos mother would have
• 45:51
  to be hospitalized roughly every The year around between
• 45:56
  Thanksgiving and Christmas time which is the time period that
• 45:59
  her daughter was murdered. Her family has not done well
• 46:02
  with this, as for Carla before. She did her 12 years, they
• 46:07
  evaluated her extensively by professionals, and they've come
• 46:11
  up with more questions than answers.
• 46:14
  One of her therapist said, she remains something of a
• 46:17
  diagnostic mystery despite her ability to present herself very
• 46:21
  well. There is a moral vacuity in her,
• 46:24
  which is difficult. not impossible to explain which to
• 46:27
  me sounds like Karla Homolka as a bit of a sociopath Apparently
• 46:33
  trying to dig into this really highlighted the complexities and
• 46:38
  challenges of Behavioral Studies on women suspected of
• 46:41
  Psychopathic, Straits, because so many of those traits are
• 46:44
  related to masculinity and maleness the various different
• 46:48
  masks that the Fimo psycho the female Psychopathic killer
• 46:51
  displays have to do more with the audience and the
• 46:54
  manipulation happening at that moment that will benefit the
• 46:58
  psychopath. Then the true nature of the
• 47:00
  person. So they Were really get a full
• 47:02
  scope of who she is, essentially, depending on who
• 47:05
  Carla is talking to, she is a completely different person, not
• 47:11
  in a sense that she has multiple personalities, but that she sort
• 47:13
  of bends her her will and her morality based on who she's
• 47:17
  talking to Great. Okay.
• 47:19
  So she's which makes her hard diagnose.
• 47:23
  I kind of want to say she's kind of like code switching a little
• 47:25
  bit, not quite, but a little bit.
• 47:30
  I think that's a really interesting thing to see. think
• 47:31
  about somebody who You don't really ever know where you stand
• 47:36
  with that person, right? Yeah man, by the name of dr.
• 47:40
  Graham Clancy. He's a forensic psychiatrist who
• 47:42
  was hired by Paul bernardo's defense lawyer.
• 47:46
  Offered an alternative Theory, which I think you'll find very
• 47:48
  interesting Brian. Okay.
• 47:51
  It's listen, his book called invisible darkness, which is
• 47:54
  about this case and he says, direct quote.
• 47:58
  She appears to be a classic example of hybristophilia and
• 48:02
  individual sexually. Caused by a partner's violent
• 48:05
  tendencies. Come on boy it's funny how these
• 48:09
  things keep it's just lying around for us this is lining up
• 48:14
  it is oh my God. Like so serendipitous so a
• 48:19
  different psychiatrist thinks that Carla was aroused and
• 48:24
  turned on by the fact that her husband was a murderer and a
• 48:28
  rapist and it seems like she was I definitely don't buy that.
• 48:32
  She was a battered woman who was forced to do this.
• 48:34
  No, she definitely helped him. She wanted to see that stuff
• 48:36
  happened. So she was released and she
• 48:41
  relocated to Montreal and 2006 she tried to change her name and
• 48:45
  they decline that and 2007 she had a baby and moved to MTS in
• 48:49
  the Caribbean. So her child could have a normal
• 48:52
  life and she had two other kids and she got married.
• 48:54
  She moved back to Canada and ended up in Quebec and 2016
• 48:58
  where any attempts to talk to her about that time in her life
• 49:02
  are met with just straight anger, she will not talk to
• 49:05
  lawyers. She is not having it parents of
• 49:09
  the The chill of parents with children who are attending the
• 49:11
  same school as her kids actually tried to stop her from being
• 49:15
  able to even go to the school or attend even PTA meetings.
• 49:19
  But the school board, ultimately supported Carla.
• 49:22
  I mean, as of January 2020, she lives in salaberry Diwali field
• 49:29
  alone without her children, or her husband.
• 49:32
  And interestingly enough when Canadians were pulled 63% of
• 49:36
  them believe that they have the right to know where Carla
• 49:39
  Homolka is living 18 percent. Say she should get some kind of
• 49:43
  anonymity and 18%. Pretty much said, maybe offer
• 49:47
  her some anonymity in about 50 years.
• 49:49
  I mean that's that's what. Yeah.
• 49:53
  Sorry go ahead. I just thought it was funny.
• 49:55
  I mean I mean that's kind of she's kind of like a predator
• 49:59
  though. Right?
• 50:02
  I wouldn't trust her around each other exactly, especially not
• 50:05
  teenagers. So, what you, what do you do
• 50:07
  with Predators? You get to know where the hell
• 50:08
  they live. So I agree with people thinking
• 50:11
  that they should know where she lives, so they can stay away
• 50:13
  from where she's at. So, you would be part of the 63%
• 50:17
  game, right now, the last thing I want to discuss is just what
• 50:20
  happened to the cops. So after barnardo's 1985
• 50:24
  conviction, the Ontario lieutenant governor appointed a
• 50:27
  man by the name of Archie Campbell to review the roles.
• 50:30
  Played by the police during the investigation, a year later, he
• 50:34
  released a report and he said that the lack of coordination
• 50:38
  cooperation and Communications by police and other elements of
• 50:41
  the judicial system, contributed to a Serial Predator falling
• 50:45
  through the cracks. And this is actually, I guess a
• 50:48
  really positive thing that came from this horrible, horrible
• 50:51
  situation because he recommended they an automatic case, an
• 50:56
  automated case management system for the Ontario Police, Those to
• 51:00
  use in investigations like these with homicide and sexual
• 51:04
  assaults. So Ontario happens to be the
• 51:06
  only place in the world with this type of computerized case
• 51:10
  management system and it's called Power case.
• 51:13
  And since 2002 all Municipal Police Services in the Ontario
• 51:18
  Provincial Police have access to it, which allows them to access
• 51:22
  anything from any case that has happened in Ontario, wow.
• 51:27
  It's the kind of thing that we are trying to do it.
• 51:30
  America and failing miserably at it.
• 51:33
  One day, one day, maybe one day we can learn from our neighbors
• 51:37
  to the north, you know? Because that would be a really
• 51:39
  useful tool to essentially, link up all United States police.
• 51:45
  Right? Yeah, but as of right now, only
• 51:49
  Ontario has it. That is where I leave you with
• 51:53
  my story. Oh, wow!
• 51:56
  I know you. It was a horrible, horrible
• 51:59
  story. But Trot it so great.
• 52:02
  Oh, you're very nice. This was really, this was really
• 52:05
  hard for me. This was hard for me to
• 52:06
  research. This was hard for me to write.
• 52:08
  I pushed it off as long as possible.
• 52:11
  I didn't even finish it until halfway through the day.
• 52:14
  Children being harmed, just hits me so deep.
• 52:17
  I work with kids. I've worked with kids for most
• 52:19
  of my life. I can't imagine doing the kinds
• 52:22
  of things or harming kids in this way.
• 52:25
  Yeah, I feel you want to percent there because I do have
• 52:29
  children. And yeah, and it's just, it's,
• 52:33
  it's scary like to think about that kind of stuff.
• 52:37
  And anytime you do anything, I I think about the fact that all of
• 52:43
  the children who I work with their parents have to put their
• 52:45
  trust in a bunch of strangers. Exactly watching their children
• 52:51
  all the time. And this case these, I mean,
• 52:54
  this case he was attacking teenagers and young adults when
• 52:57
  they were just walking home. But I mean, Teachers have
• 53:01
  background checks to though. So we do we do.
• 53:05
  But unfortunately, that doesn't stop people who never harmed
• 53:09
  before. You can only the background,
• 53:11
  check only exposes people who've gotten in trouble.
• 53:14
  So it's, it's still it's an unsteady connection for both of
• 53:18
  us. We're worried about the parents
• 53:21
  and the parents are worried about us.
• 53:22
  And everybody is trying their best to make sure we do right by
• 53:25
  the kids right here, which we trust each other.
• 53:27
  But we're like I got my eye on you buddy.
• 53:30
  Oh yeah, because part of my job is also monitoring the children
• 53:35
  and making sure nothing bad is happening to them at their
• 53:38
  homes, right? So it's vice versa there,
• 53:41
  keeping an eye on us and we're keeping an eye on you, so
• 53:44
  hopefully the checks and balances, make sure that nobody
• 53:46
  ever falls through the cracks and kids don't get hurt.
• 53:48
  Yeah, that's true. But maybe you can turn the tide
• 53:52
  and make the rest of this podcast, a little less sad
• 53:56
  bright. I'm hoping this story helps
• 53:59
  everybody. Buddy, get through what they
• 54:01
  just listen to because I'm I think it'll help a little bit.
• 54:20
  It'll give you I'm here for you. Okay?
• 54:25
  So this story is a branch off of my story last week about the
• 54:29
  Mothman. So can you guess what?
• 54:32
  This story is about, is this going to be about the cool sheep
• 54:35
  thing? The Sheepsquatch?
• 54:38
  Yeah. No, Sheepsquatch.
• 54:39
  Today, what were the other ones we talked about?
• 54:43
  We talked about a Sheepsquatch, we talked about it, we talked
• 54:45
  about the chief squats, the Grafton monster, the Flatwoods
• 54:48
  Monster, Oh yeah. The big thing that looks like a
• 54:51
  giant sludge Monster. Not this.
• 54:54
  That's not we're not talking about this.
• 54:55
  No. No we're not talking about
• 54:56
  those. Those are cool though.
• 54:59
  I know. Are we talking about more stuff
• 55:01
  from West Virginia? The sort of yes, okay, okay.
• 55:07
  Get a little closer. I don't know a lot about
• 55:10
  Cryptids though, that's really your area of expertise, okay?
• 55:13
  So what if I sing a song to you, are you gonna sing?
• 55:19
  But yeah, just give you just fill in the blanks and what you
• 55:25
  think is that the so this is like a little game show, okay.
• 55:29
  Okay. Are we ready?
• 55:31
  Okay. here, come the You said here, come here, come the right.
• 55:40
  Here comes the Keep going. Galaxy the fenders.
• 55:48
  Oh, here come the Men In Black. Yeah, there we go.
• 55:59
  It took me a moment. There had to dig back to like
• 56:02
  nineteen ninety four or five 1997.
• 56:05
  Was it 97? I thought it was weird earlier
• 56:07
  than I thought it was little when I came out.
• 56:09
  Okay. Yeah.
• 56:12
  This is horrible Men In Black or scary.
• 56:16
  It's better than what you were talking about.
• 56:19
  Give me one sec. I actually, hold on a sec.
• 56:21
  That's right. I'm talking about the Men in
• 56:23
  Black. All right?
• 56:27
  And no I'm not talking about the the hit movie from 1997 starring
• 56:32
  Will Smith and Tommy Lee Jones, I'm talking about.
• 56:35
  It's a fantastic movie. I love that movie so much.
• 56:41
  I'm talking about the Real Men In Black even though that song
• 56:45
  is still really good and like I said, it's been In my head.
• 56:53
  So, is this what you're telling about the other day?
• 56:56
  Like it's so hard. It was so like it was so hard
• 57:00
  not to sing it because it's been stuck in my head all week and it
• 57:02
  was like, I just want to sing it so bad.
• 57:05
  Oh, oh, I love it. Okay.
• 57:11
  So this is also not a like a type of scary story but it's a
• 57:15
  but the Men in Black are so creepy.
• 57:17
  That, you know, I found it interesting.
• 57:18
  So I had to cover it. Hmm.
• 57:21
  All right. So remaining bet the Men in
• 57:25
  Black or supposed to be, you know, men and dressed in black
• 57:29
  suits who claimed to be some type of government officials or
• 57:32
  government agents, who try to cover up UFO, sightings by
• 57:36
  harassing or threatening the witness is, you know, to keep
• 57:39
  quiet About what they've seen. Well, you said last week that
• 57:43
  certain people who said they saw the Mothman also meant Men In
• 57:46
  Black. This is true in a ho get to that
• 57:49
  later. I'm remembering I'm remembering.
• 57:53
  Okay good. So a little description, a
• 57:56
  little, are you tiny description about the Men in Black?
• 57:58
  Any, there's not really much to go off of, so they're always
• 58:02
  dressed in a black suit actually sometimes, they are dressed in
• 58:06
  like a military. Where as well.
• 58:13
  They lack human emotion in the one YouTube video.
• 58:18
  I saw that supposedly had Men In Black.
• 58:21
  They were like, real, big like, tall taller than everybody else.
• 58:25
  Yeah, yeah, they were like walking into a building and I
• 58:28
  like the other people that were near them were much shorter.
• 58:31
  And I'm just so, so mostly at everage their Heights or about
• 58:37
  like six foot. Okay.
• 58:39
  So you and Tom Taller. Yeah.
• 58:42
  Okay and they're always there, mostly always mail but there are
• 58:48
  some cases of females as well. So women in black, I've never
• 58:54
  heard of that. Yeah.
• 58:55
  And they have pale skin and exotic facial features.
• 59:00
  So, there are like, I remember there was a case of one that was
• 59:04
  like Asian men in black. So, That's the thing.
• 59:12
  Okay. Yeah, so before I go ahead, go
• 59:16
  ahead. No no I just never heard of a
• 59:18
  woman in black, that sounds weird.
• 59:25
  All right, so before I truly get into this, I'm just going to say
• 59:30
  that topics like men in black there.
• 59:33
  It's there is hmm. Like so little on the web about
• 59:38
  them so I can look them up. So I had to, you know, Do a
• 59:42
  really deep deep dive into a really great book.
• 59:46
  So you have later analog. Yeah.
• 59:50
  So I had to get into like a nice book, just to get some
• 59:53
  information about it. So what I'll be telling you for
• 59:58
  my segment or basically Men In Black encounters, you know,
• 1:00:05
  accounts from people who have met them in Black.
• 1:00:10
  So that's hopefully Lee that is good enough for you guys and
• 1:00:16
  hopefully you guys enjoy it. There's also some theories about
• 1:00:20
  who the Men in Black are and I'll be getting to that later as
• 1:00:24
  well. So without further Ado, let's
• 1:00:29
  get into our first story. Give us a lot of pages.
• 1:00:37
  Yes. Okay.
• 1:00:40
  So let's start our stories off with this is basically like the
• 1:00:44
  first reported or recorded information about the Men in
• 1:00:49
  Black, okay? Okay.
• 1:00:52
  So what was this is actually the first person who may have seen a
• 1:00:55
  man, a man in black, or Men In Black part of Cisco back.
• 1:01:00
  So this goes back to the 1940s But I do believe that they have
• 1:01:09
  been around much longer. Okay, so, so let's talk about a
• 1:01:15
  man named Albert Bender. This is 1940s.
• 1:01:20
  This guy was into stranger paranormal stuff, like he
• 1:01:23
  probably fit in who at this time period, like he was into, I
• 1:01:29
  thought you were gonna say he fits in with us, he does.
• 1:01:35
  So he like he he would look out into the sky with his telescope
• 1:01:41
  trying to like catch a glimpse of a flying saucer.
• 1:01:47
  So, his obsession began with a disappearance of Flight 19.
• 1:01:52
  They have you know a flight 19 is no I don't think I've heard
• 1:01:55
  of it. Okay, Flight 19, so so goodness,
• 1:02:00
  what years, okay? It's 19 1945, December 5th,
• 1:02:03
  1945, five Avenger class bombers, they were leaving.
• 1:02:08
  I think it was a Florida and they had disappeared over the
• 1:02:14
  Bermuda Triangle. Okay, okay, so one of those.
• 1:02:18
  Yeah. So this is like, the, I guess
• 1:02:19
  one of the first case of planes disappearing above the upper M
• 1:02:23
  triangle, and that's another story altogether. a triangle
• 1:02:31
  stuff is very Yeah, that's it's all it's all just oh my God.
• 1:02:37
  Is it a portal is? It's a reporter was some where
• 1:02:39
  the planes just lose, you know, whatever.
• 1:02:42
  We're gains at some other time, okay?
• 1:02:46
  So he even like he hadn't addict with his, I guess he lived in
• 1:02:51
  his stepdads house so he lived in the Attic.
• 1:02:54
  So This is where he would look out into the sky with his
• 1:02:59
  telescope. So he painted the walls of his
• 1:03:03
  room, with faces of creatures, like horrific nightmares
• 1:03:07
  creatures, the no don't like it. So he made it his little, his
• 1:03:12
  little room of Horrors. So in just in December of 1950,
• 1:03:19
  he starts getting really really into flying saucers.
• 1:03:23
  He even gets human, got a group of people to create a network of
• 1:03:27
  UFO investigators. It's called a net, the
• 1:03:30
  international Flying Saucer Bureau or the ifs.
• 1:03:35
  Be okay. No, the ifs be blew up so
• 1:03:42
  eautiful. Oh my God, I'm sorry.
• 1:03:46
  I can't right now. So UFO disciples from all over
• 1:03:50
  the world started sending in reports of sightings to be, you
• 1:03:54
  know, to the you to, the is a Thai FSB and a ton of people.
• 1:04:00
  Hmm. So I ask you a question.
• 1:04:03
  Yeah. Are you a Believer like the ifs
• 1:04:06
  be absolutely of UFOs? Yes.
• 1:04:09
  Absolutely. Do you believe it's like them
• 1:04:12
  like little green man and flying saucers do.
• 1:04:14
  I think it's a little different. I think it's different, I mean
• 1:04:17
  this it can't, it can't. They can't all be the same.
• 1:04:19
  I mean, we're not all the same. Yeah, I think they'd be
• 1:04:22
  different to. I'm just really freaked out by
• 1:04:24
  the whole concept of the little gray men.
• 1:04:27
  Like if I saw like a little gray person with the big head and the
• 1:04:31
  weird arms I'd probably freak out, okay, you know, you're
• 1:04:34
  being a racist right now to aliens.
• 1:04:37
  It's just those aliens, I like all the Star Wars aliens.
• 1:04:40
  They're all very unique and interesting people who wouldn't
• 1:04:43
  have nobody look. Smoove.
• 1:04:44
  No Other alien looks like them. That would be great.
• 1:04:49
  I don't know where the gray man idea came from but it's creepy.
• 1:04:54
  Yeah. Sorry to interrupt you.
• 1:04:57
  I don't think I was like how much do you believe in this?
• 1:05:00
  You know, I really dive into it. Okay where was I adds?
• 1:05:09
  Oh yeah. So a ton of people want to join
• 1:05:11
  as well but ifif, SB is big news.
• 1:05:17
  Yes, so Albert, Benders stain. Is I FSB guy came to say I
• 1:05:24
  spelled it out so many times so he's, they wouldn't last long
• 1:05:28
  and it's believed that. The next next account is the
• 1:05:32
  beginning of the end for Him. Oh, so yeah, so July 30th 1952
• 1:05:42
  bender gets an anonymous call. When he picks it up, the phone
• 1:05:45
  there is no answer but you can tell that there's someone on the
• 1:05:48
  other line. He needs those calls are the
• 1:05:54
  worst. Yeah, I know great.
• 1:05:56
  You just hear someone like you can just tell someone's their
• 1:06:00
  breathing. Yes.
• 1:06:02
  Or maybe not even breathing, you just sense that someone's there.
• 1:06:05
  Don't like it. So his head starts to hurt and
• 1:06:08
  he gets like a dizzy spell so he has to bed after like this.
• 1:06:12
  Is him on the phone. Him being on the phone made his
• 1:06:14
  head hurt. So is this like from the movie?
• 1:06:17
  They had like the little. What's the word they have?
• 1:06:20
  The little thing that messes with your eyes.
• 1:06:22
  Only, this was his ears. You're talking about the nor
• 1:06:25
  eliezer's. Yes.
• 1:06:26
  Like an ear neuralyzer? Mmm.
• 1:06:29
  Not really. Okay.
• 1:06:31
  Because I makes you forget this one.
• 1:06:33
  Just wanted to call some pain. Okay.
• 1:06:39
  So after after this event Days Later, he's heading home from
• 1:06:43
  the movies. It's late at night and he has
• 1:06:46
  this feeling that something malicious is following him.
• 1:06:50
  Oh no, he makes. He makes it home fine though.
• 1:06:54
  So he like nothing happens on his way home.
• 1:06:57
  So he's heading to his room in the attic and he noticed he
• 1:07:01
  notices, a weird glow coming from underneath the door and his
• 1:07:05
  room. What.
• 1:07:07
  Yeah, so please he didn't go in there, right?
• 1:07:12
  He just turned around and walked away.
• 1:07:14
  Hid in the bathroom or something?
• 1:07:18
  No no he didn't do that. Okay so he flings the door open
• 1:07:25
  and is greeted to this view so it automatically like as soon as
• 1:07:31
  he steps in and gets the smell of sulfur and he sees a bright
• 1:07:35
  shimmering object like of whirring in his room.
• 1:07:39
  So let me just note that this man has OCD.
• 1:07:44
  He's really OCD about things, okay?
• 1:07:47
  Hmm, I'm just going to what that rate, right?
• 1:07:50
  Real quick. So do you mean he actually was
• 1:07:53
  OCD or he is really particular know?
• 1:07:55
  He's I'm guessing he's really particular but the book noted
• 1:07:59
  that he may have OCD as well, okay.
• 1:08:05
  Okay, so Let's see. Let's see, let's see.
• 1:08:10
  Okay, so as soon as he like opens the door, you see is the
• 1:08:13
  object, the object starts hurting his eyes.
• 1:08:15
  So, and I guess some reason this made sense to him and his head,
• 1:08:20
  he turns on his room light instead, and the shimmering
• 1:08:25
  object just disappears. So I mentioned he was OCD right?
• 1:08:32
  Hmm. So when he was in his room, he
• 1:08:36
  noticed that someone had been going through his eye FSB files
• 1:08:42
  mmm-hmm and like he could he could just tell that someone was
• 1:08:46
  going through them because they were not where he had them last
• 1:08:49
  time. Like I said it was CD.
• 1:08:51
  So he's like I know what, I had this at their should, like there
• 1:08:55
  should be nobody going in my room and touching my stuff.
• 1:08:59
  Right now. Gotcha.
• 1:09:01
  So do you think Albert? Let these strange things?
• 1:09:04
  Stop him from Living his life. Probably not.
• 1:09:07
  No no. But that would just mean that
• 1:09:11
  they were coming to bite him in the butt later.
• 1:09:15
  Okay, so he goes to the movies again.
• 1:09:17
  So he had a thing for sci-fi. He love Sci-Fi movies.
• 1:09:21
  So again, it'll double feature on.
• 1:09:23
  Yeah, of course, I'm not sure. He can't.
• 1:09:25
  What was out at this time? It's there was a say 1950.
• 1:09:28
  So whatever. Awesome.
• 1:09:30
  Sci-Fi movies were out at that time.
• 1:09:33
  Here I saw Mama. Yeah, he's home.
• 1:09:35
  You bet, he's all more So, you sit and chill.
• 1:09:41
  Enjoy the movie when you feels a strange dread and that he's
• 1:09:46
  being stared at. So after corner of his eye he
• 1:09:49
  spots a figure materialize near him.
• 1:09:52
  It's a guy dressed in dark clothes and Arthur's, I keep
• 1:09:59
  saying Arts, that's a l. Have insane or sir Albert.
• 1:10:02
  Okay, good, his name is Albert. So so Albert's head his starts.
• 1:10:08
  I don't know why. I thought, I just thought a said
• 1:10:10
  our Surfer like as quick second. You're good.
• 1:10:13
  No, no. Okay.
• 1:10:13
  You, you need to get back on the point that he saw something
• 1:10:16
  materialize because I didn't think the Men in Black had magic
• 1:10:20
  powers. And so, I'm very unsettled right
• 1:10:23
  now and I need you to continue where you were, okay?
• 1:10:25
  Okay. So his Albert's head, it starts
• 1:10:28
  feeling dizzy again like today before like the a few days back
• 1:10:31
  when his, you know, when he answered the phone, You remember
• 1:10:36
  that? And he's and he's feeling
• 1:10:37
  nauseous, just like the old Uncle.
• 1:10:39
  So he closes his eyes to relieve the stress and her pain.
• 1:10:43
  And then when he opens them, the man is gone.
• 1:10:47
  Anybody sees the man for a second time at the movies and at
• 1:10:53
  like at this point he just freaks out when leaves he just
• 1:10:56
  like I'm done I'm getting out of here.
• 1:10:57
  I'm going home no more movies today for me, please.
• 1:11:02
  This is I don't like it, so just I thought they were real people.
• 1:11:09
  Now they this, they can materialize, you don't know, or
• 1:11:14
  you don't even know you can't, I'm gonna get into it.
• 1:11:19
  So he would continue to see suited men for the next few
• 1:11:22
  months, and also continue to have dizzy spells as well.
• 1:11:28
  So reportedly, there was a poetic if there was Poltergeist
• 1:11:34
  activity and that sulfur smell came back as well.
• 1:11:39
  So dropped these once, he had Poltergeist activity and he
• 1:11:44
  could still smell the sulfur. I'm just saying.
• 1:11:47
  You said this wasn't going to be scary, but I'm spooked right
• 1:11:50
  now. It's not that scary.
• 1:11:53
  It's just very educational and very interesting. so, So this
• 1:12:01
  guy he was going through a tough time at this point and it will
• 1:12:05
  only get worse from there. So every time I stop at like a
• 1:12:08
  section, it only gets worse after that.
• 1:12:12
  Poor Albert. Yeah.
• 1:12:14
  So one day Albert is visited by, not one, not two, but three men
• 1:12:21
  in black. So this guy is going through,
• 1:12:24
  hell ready? So the heat are really need to
• 1:12:26
  see the all these motherfuckers that all these guys showing up
• 1:12:30
  at his house. They knocked on the door, they
• 1:12:32
  show up. Okay?
• 1:12:33
  So they knocked you know they basically not last time the one
• 1:12:40
  time they were in his bedroom. Okay.
• 1:12:43
  Well that wasn't a man in Black. That was shimmering object.
• 1:12:49
  I don't know, I don't know either.
• 1:12:51
  So maybe just time days wanted to confront him you know, men to
• 1:12:55
  men. Okay.
• 1:12:57
  Yeah. So they tell him all, they tell
• 1:13:02
  them to dark proof of the of the UFO presence in our world.
• 1:13:07
  Now, why would he tell him this? So they cannot murder them.
• 1:13:11
  We got the so close. So they could threaten his life,
• 1:13:15
  of course. So they warned him like every
• 1:13:20
  good bad guy in a movie. Yeah, I know.
• 1:13:25
  So they warned him not to tell anyone what he was towed under
• 1:13:28
  any circumstances. Has a less.
• 1:13:31
  He quote had some say to see. Why is it so funny to hear?
• 1:13:39
  I don't know. It's just I'm really giggly
• 1:13:41
  right now. I'm sorry.
• 1:13:44
  So he has he has somebody unless he had some quote, say this wish
• 1:13:52
  to incur their immediate and deadly wrath, which he certainly
• 1:13:57
  did not. So how do we know about what
• 1:14:01
  happened here? Obviously, he wasn't that
• 1:14:04
  scared, so but Bender is scared for his life at this point.
• 1:14:10
  So he quits the ifs. I f SB and leaves his members
• 1:14:18
  with this meshes, We would like you like to print the full story
• 1:14:25
  in the space review, which was a little Zen, they had for a
• 1:14:28
  further members, but because of nature of the info, we are sorry
• 1:14:34
  that we have been advised in a negatives.
• 1:14:38
  So, we advise those engaged in saucer work to, please be very
• 1:14:43
  cautious. So, basically, he's giving out a
• 1:14:48
  warning to know all the members that, hey, there are guys out
• 1:14:53
  there, they are tried to stop you, they will threaten you,
• 1:14:57
  they will follow you around. Be careful, right?
• 1:15:05
  And this, this would be the first of many of the MIB
• 1:15:10
  stories. And I'd like to say miv, but the
• 1:15:12
  Men in Black stories So there are many encounters like this
• 1:15:18
  one, but I have two more I want to share it.
• 1:15:21
  They're my favorites. Today's episode of when Killers
• 1:15:31
  get caught, is brought to you by the magic claps Boutique which
• 1:15:35
  happens to be company owned by a very own Britney.
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• 1:15:41
  rocking some awesome earrings. That she herself makes from cute
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  ice cream earrings, too spooky mermaid earrings.
• 1:15:48
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• 1:15:50
  stylish and protect yourself. At the same time, the magic
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  class Boutique is going to release some special jewelry for
• 1:15:56
  a podcast next month. So keep an eye out for that as
• 1:15:58
  well. To learn more.
• 1:16:00
  Go to www.michelintransport.com. Okay, so so wait, yes, do you
• 1:16:17
  talk about the Dan Aykroyd situation?
• 1:16:20
  No, I should should look more into that one, but that's a good
• 1:16:24
  one too. It was, it was pretty simple.
• 1:16:26
  He was doing a TV show for like one of the Network's, you know,
• 1:16:29
  one of those real true life you know Supernatural shows right.
• 1:16:34
  And he noticed like a car black car with the people in it and
• 1:16:39
  then like a day later he got a phone call from the network
• 1:16:42
  saying can't show no one's in like no one's going to cover it,
• 1:16:46
  and I just such an interesting thought process that like
• 1:16:50
  Somebody somewhere made a phone call and went, he's on to us.
• 1:16:55
  Well you know, he's a ufologist, right?
• 1:16:57
  Yeah, he's really into it. So I assumed that like maybe he
• 1:17:01
  was onto something where he was recording or whatever, they were
• 1:17:04
  filming at the time and they just told him and they shut it
• 1:17:07
  down, it's done. I mean no funding, there's no
• 1:17:11
  nothing you're done, which is wild because he's a
• 1:17:14
  well-respected well-known actor. So I can't imagine telling him.
• 1:17:17
  No. And that's another facet of that
• 1:17:21
  story that I find interesting. You right about that.
• 1:17:23
  You're right about that. Okay, so remember the Mothman,
• 1:17:29
  you know? Absolutely from last week.
• 1:17:32
  Okay? So I told you to MIB is the Men
• 1:17:37
  in Black were there to keep things hush-hush as well, right?
• 1:17:43
  Well, this is one of my favorite ones that I read from.
• 1:17:45
  The book is one of the counters Turn My Page, get to my analog
• 1:17:50
  stuff, okay, so it's Jan the January 1967.
• 1:17:57
  So this is a few. This is like a year after year
• 1:17:59
  before a small family counter their first public Mothman
• 1:18:04
  encounter. That went says this before,
• 1:18:06
  everything went the, the bridge smushed, no afterward.
• 1:18:11
  I think this is absurd. Actually no because it said the
• 1:18:17
  Mothman was there between 1966 and 1967 so I'm not sure, I
• 1:18:24
  don't have the date in my God. I have it in my notes but I just
• 1:18:28
  don't know where have it. This is still before that before
• 1:18:32
  the the big catastrophe happened, just kind of given up
• 1:18:36
  trying to get a frame of reference in my head, right?
• 1:18:37
  Okay. so, Mary hyre. A journalist in Point, Pleasant
• 1:18:45
  gets to have to strange encounters with the Men in
• 1:18:49
  Black. Alright.
• 1:18:52
  Alright, the first one is now this one is a rarity among men
• 1:18:57
  in black. It's a five foot tall, man has a
• 1:19:02
  bowl, cut and hypnotic eyes. And there wasn't much about this
• 1:19:09
  encounter with him except for The fact that he was very
• 1:19:14
  intrigued by her ballpoint pen and, you know, before their
• 1:19:20
  interaction and it she gives she gave her ballpoint pen to him
• 1:19:26
  because she saw how interesting he was in it.
• 1:19:29
  And once he got it, he gave out his, like, cackle like a laugh
• 1:19:34
  and ran out the door. That doesn't sound like she met
• 1:19:38
  a man in Black. This is like, she met an alien.
• 1:19:41
  He's some was like a look at this technology fun.
• 1:19:44
  It's like, oh, what is this strange object?
• 1:19:46
  You have here. What is this?
• 1:19:47
  Yeah, yeah, so that's the first encounter.
• 1:19:53
  So fun, a little madcap. Yeah, the second encounter.
• 1:19:59
  Well, the second weird one because I guess she had multiple
• 1:20:04
  encounters. This just is the second weirdest
• 1:20:06
  one that she had. Okay, so there are two men in
• 1:20:11
  black that looked Asian and they looked like they were twins as
• 1:20:15
  well. So they came to the newspaper
• 1:20:18
  offices where she worked at. So they started talking about,
• 1:20:21
  you know, UFOs and stuff. And one of them was like a lot
• 1:20:25
  of saucers things in the sky, huh?
• 1:20:27
  And I was like, yep. And and I imagine a my be going.
• 1:20:32
  Haha. Gotcha, we know, you know about
• 1:20:35
  the UFOs. So So then they begin to ask her
• 1:20:45
  things like, has anyone asked you to not publish the details
• 1:20:50
  of of the activity? And she said, no.
• 1:20:55
  And then they're like, okay, well, what if you were warned
• 1:20:59
  not to publish the details of this activity and she goes and I
• 1:21:05
  quote, the straight from her lips straight from the book.
• 1:21:09
  It says, I tell them to go to hell.
• 1:21:15
  So is she for a moment? She looks down at her paperwork
• 1:21:19
  and and she looks back up to see that they're gone.
• 1:21:22
  So I guess they took her seriously and they went to hell.
• 1:21:27
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:21:30
  At least we just more perplexed than anything else.
• 1:21:32
  Yeah, it's just like the old always the counters of strange.
• 1:21:38
  so, if you think the Men in Black are only men.
• 1:21:44
  Well, I had to say that's backwards, thinking.
• 1:21:47
  How dare you get the hell out of here?
• 1:21:50
  They're people in Black. Okay, there are indeed women in
• 1:21:54
  black suits encounters as well. And I swear, this one is the
• 1:22:00
  best one. This is like my the best
• 1:22:02
  encounter I've read. Okay, so it's the year 2000 and
• 1:22:09
  I did not look this up. I'm Sure.
• 1:22:10
  I got their pronunciation. Correct.
• 1:22:12
  Anyway. Glastonbury England.
• 1:22:17
  A man named Colin Parks is obsessed with finding King
• 1:22:22
  Arthur's remains and just I guess it's it's consider our
• 1:22:28
  sorcerer Aryan studies. Okay.
• 1:22:33
  He gets a call from a woman who wished to meet and speak with
• 1:22:37
  him about his Arthur area studies.
• 1:22:40
  He thinks himself. Hmm, that's strange because I
• 1:22:44
  haven't told a lot of people about this.
• 1:22:47
  Maybe like, yeah, two or three people about my research.
• 1:22:51
  So why is why is this random women calling me out of nowhere?
• 1:22:59
  So they agree to meet at his place, 7:00 p.m. she arrives
• 1:23:05
  with a loud. Knock on a door, he opens the
• 1:23:07
  door to see a beautiful 6-foot pill skin, possibly 40 year old
• 1:23:13
  woman in a black suit. Okay.
• 1:23:16
  So he was a Shucks. Yeah.
• 1:23:21
  Oh He invites on that booty, though.
• 1:23:24
  What happened? Sorry.
• 1:23:26
  I said, but do she got a booty do?
• 1:23:28
  Oh, that's a good question. I'm probably going to say she do
• 1:23:30
  she did. No, no, it's okay.
• 1:23:41
  Tell major Ally with my debauchery.
• 1:23:45
  So he invites her in and it get down to business.
• 1:23:48
  She says she and her colleagues have been following in his
• 1:23:52
  research for years. Poppycock he says I haven't
• 1:23:56
  published anything and no one knows of this.
• 1:24:00
  And with the cruel smile, she says I do know all about you.
• 1:24:08
  So he's toad, like, she even, like, goes back and tells him
• 1:24:13
  all of his research that she knows about, and this man is
• 1:24:18
  Circus. So, See, how is he safe?
• 1:24:23
  Is he okay for now, for now, for now?
• 1:24:26
  So he's told that he must stop his research, King Arthur's,
• 1:24:32
  resting place is also a doorway to a realm with nightmare
• 1:24:37
  creatures. So I don't know if you know
• 1:24:38
  this, but I'm pretty sure you might.
• 1:24:42
  King Arthur's remains have not been found.
• 1:24:48
  I didn't realize that do we think this is like a so he The
• 1:24:51
  resting place like the there's like a memorial site doesn't get
• 1:24:56
  like, there's a, there's a resting place.
• 1:24:59
  It's in. It's in vertical displays
• 1:25:02
  Glastonbury. Glastonbury.
• 1:25:04
  Yeah. Okay.
• 1:25:05
  So it's in England isn't UK and any of our UK listeners can
• 1:25:11
  confirm or refute this I'm not sure but I'm pretty sure his
• 1:25:16
  remains have not been found. I did read an article that was
• 1:25:19
  from April 1st so I'm Is April Fool's joke that his remains
• 1:25:24
  were found by a plumber, that that kind of stuff does happen.
• 1:25:31
  You know, when it comes to geological digs and things of
• 1:25:33
  that nature? They do.
• 1:25:34
  I remember at some point in England, they were taking up a
• 1:25:36
  car park and they found a whole host of really important
• 1:25:40
  archaeological finds, but I feel like we would have heard if they
• 1:25:44
  had actually found King Arthur. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:25:47
  Okay. So she says to him, this is.
• 1:25:52
  His location is a, I'm sorry, and entry a portal to nightmare
• 1:25:58
  laughs. Yeah, basically.
• 1:26:01
  It's a. And what does he say when she
• 1:26:03
  tells us so? Well she says it can't be open
• 1:26:07
  and if he continued to do his research, he'd have another
• 1:26:11
  visitor and he definitely did not want to upset this visitor.
• 1:26:16
  So do you think what do you do? You think he stopped his
• 1:26:21
  research after she had told him and warranty and gave him this
• 1:26:24
  morning. No, but he should have.
• 1:26:27
  Yeah, he didn't stop. He's like this is not what he
• 1:26:31
  said but this is what I speculate that he was saying
• 1:26:33
  I've come too far now to stop. Okay.
• 1:26:39
  All right. Okay I'm sorry God.
• 1:26:42
  Okay no no I'm just thinking about this.
• 1:26:46
  It's 9 p.m. on a Saturday night, he's driving home.
• 1:26:50
  There are no cars on the road, which is particularly strange
• 1:26:54
  for this area. Because this you, this is the
• 1:26:56
  busy busy area, but there is someone in the Roseau or
• 1:27:04
  something. It looks like a man from From
• 1:27:08
  where he's at. But as he slows down, he's like
• 1:27:13
  that ain't no man. It was a tall pale skinny
• 1:27:18
  bat-like creature. Oh no.
• 1:27:22
  It's the Mothman not quite. It's like a more like a Batman.
• 1:27:27
  But like a new and Batman. So is a is a bat-like creature.
• 1:27:32
  So it had wings and everything so it was one of the night.
• 1:27:37
  Monsters that they said they didn't want to take out of the
• 1:27:40
  board, awesome bleep. So perks saw this thing and he
• 1:27:45
  hit the gas. He headed straight towards it
• 1:27:48
  and but as soon as he got close enough, it vanished.
• 1:27:52
  Mmm. That's good.
• 1:27:54
  So it's about it's about a week later.
• 1:27:56
  Early early morning, perks is woken up by you guessed it.
• 1:28:01
  The monster he saw in the road, it was is in his house in his
• 1:28:06
  house. It was standing over him as he
• 1:28:10
  was in his bed. So it grabbed his hands grabbed
• 1:28:16
  his wrist, it grabbed his wrist and it got real close to his
• 1:28:20
  face. And it said in a deep booming
• 1:28:23
  voice, you were towed, that I would come the warning.
• 1:28:29
  That is a woman in black gave him if he continued his
• 1:28:32
  research, if spoke to him telepathically, so, It didn't he
• 1:28:39
  had opened his mouth like this, he gave the same warning to him
• 1:28:42
  that the woman in black gave to him.
• 1:28:49
  Thanks again. So it looks like any game will
• 1:28:55
  warning about, you know what happens next?
• 1:28:58
  Once again he gives them a warning or it gives him a
• 1:29:01
  warning about King Arthur's resting place and then it's
• 1:29:04
  gone. So he stops his research for
• 1:29:07
  now. So perks speculated that the
• 1:29:12
  woman in black in the creature was the same person claiming
• 1:29:16
  that she was a shape-shifter who was upset after perks wasn't
• 1:29:22
  heating her warning. So she stooped to drastic
• 1:29:28
  measures in shape-shifted into this bat creature.
• 1:29:33
  It's kind of cool actually. Yeah, I know, right?
• 1:29:38
  So like I said he stopped looking for, you know, King
• 1:29:41
  Arthur's resting place for a while, until he couldn't resist
• 1:29:46
  anymore. He was like, I need my drug.
• 1:29:48
  I need this, I need to go looking for King, Arthur again,
• 1:29:53
  and he was, he was looking until the day, he died.
• 1:29:58
  He died of a heart attack. Or so, we think or so, we think
• 1:30:04
  so there, there's another story about women in Black by do not
• 1:30:08
  write that down. It's the same as almost the same
• 1:30:10
  because it's about a woman in black and a fine of flying
• 1:30:14
  creature. Mmm.
• 1:30:16
  So if it's the same woman, who knows?
• 1:30:20
  I just love the idea of being a shapeshifter.
• 1:30:24
  I know, right? It's really cool, not meeting
• 1:30:27
  one like her, but it's think about Being one.
• 1:30:32
  Right. Right.
• 1:30:33
  Okay. Okay, so now those are my
• 1:30:37
  stories. Now, is there a theories about
• 1:30:42
  what these big Matic people are? They could be G-Men, you know,
• 1:30:47
  guys working with the government to keep things underground,
• 1:30:51
  which is what they've always kind of played it off as just
• 1:30:53
  some hired goons, right? But we're the weird paranormal
• 1:30:58
  connection, though, or they could be demons.
• 1:31:03
  Oh no. Right right.
• 1:31:07
  Right. Okay.
• 1:31:08
  So I only wrote down one of the series but okay, so some of the
• 1:31:14
  theories are G-Men demons they could be hallucinations They
• 1:31:21
  could be like, just civilian people dressed up like this.
• 1:31:26
  Or they could be hoaxes. Now, okay, see no one thinks
• 1:31:32
  they could be aliens, none of these theories ended up as
• 1:31:36
  aliens. I don't know why.
• 1:31:37
  I think that like, they are also, like, some of them might
• 1:31:41
  be aliens. You would think so, right
• 1:31:43
  working for us, just to keep things quiet, right?
• 1:31:48
  Okay, so what do you think there's one theory that?
• 1:31:55
  Well, I'll get to what I think later.
• 1:31:57
  Oh, there is one. In theory is that I absolutely
• 1:32:02
  love and this is actually a topic I was going to cover
• 1:32:05
  eventually some time this theory is that they're topas.
• 1:32:14
  Continue. Okay.
• 1:32:18
  So you ever wonder why the Men in Black are so I don't know
• 1:32:22
  like weird like they have like they were manifested for just a
• 1:32:26
  single purpose and that's to stop people.
• 1:32:29
  From worrying about UFOs. Okay.
• 1:32:32
  And that like they don't have common sense like that.
• 1:32:34
  Like the story I said about the one who was interested in a pen
• 1:32:38
  like you didn't know what the heck of pain was like act.
• 1:32:40
  Like you didn't know what a pain was, right?
• 1:32:42
  Like they don't have basic knowledge like Common Sense
• 1:32:46
  knowledge. They just have the knowledge of
• 1:32:48
  what they should be. Okay.
• 1:32:53
  Okay. So So they're called Tapas.
• 1:33:02
  So what the heck or topas right? So originating in Tibet the
• 1:33:09
  language is so I guess it's a bit in.
• 1:33:13
  I don't know what you would call them.
• 1:33:15
  I guess I'm Munch Munch. See ya.
• 1:33:18
  Okay so Tapas are an entity or being that attained some form of
• 1:33:26
  meaningful reality after being conjured up.
• 1:33:29
  Up solely from the imagination of The Conjurer.
• 1:33:33
  So basically, if you have enough mental power, you can create
• 1:33:40
  something from your thoughts. Two into reality, hmm.
• 1:33:52
  So imagine a my the Men in Black or taupe us.
• 1:33:55
  Now there's a case I read in a book, it's about I don't know
• 1:34:00
  the woman's name but she created at OPA.
• 1:34:05
  It was of a monk, it was a fat monkey think of Friar Tuck from
• 1:34:10
  Robin Hood. Okay.
• 1:34:12
  So she this this is how it was described in the book as well.
• 1:34:16
  So she creates this Monk topa. And he can he's basically like,
• 1:34:26
  I want to say, He's something that she can see.
• 1:34:31
  And he can I guess interact with the world around him as well
• 1:34:37
  because there, I guess she reported that, you know, he she
• 1:34:41
  could feel that he touched her shoulder at one point and stuff
• 1:34:45
  like that and horses would recognize him as well.
• 1:34:50
  And later on, she notices that he's Changing an appearance.
• 1:34:59
  He's getting a little skinnier. His attitude is changing from
• 1:35:07
  that of like, you know, quiet, monk to someone, who's sassy
• 1:35:12
  stuff like that. So she tries to get rid of him.
• 1:35:17
  Because she knows that, you know, he's changing and it's and
• 1:35:21
  he's like trying to break. So basically he's trying to
• 1:35:23
  break free from the hold. She has on him.
• 1:35:28
  Yes. Oh, he's trying to break free
• 1:35:29
  from her like, her mental space and He like he tries, he tries
• 1:35:38
  but like because he knows that she's trying to get rid of him
• 1:35:41
  now. So she eventually does this and
• 1:35:44
  she can conjure him away back into her mind and that's the end
• 1:35:51
  of that. And you know I've actually read
• 1:35:53
  like a creepypasta about something like this topaz do and
• 1:35:59
  the ending did not end well for the other person.
• 1:36:03
  So imagine that the Men in Black were topas that broke free from
• 1:36:09
  the conjurer's grip and he took on a life of their own, but why
• 1:36:13
  would they work for the government?
• 1:36:15
  So who says are working for the government who says they can't
• 1:36:18
  just be regular, like just topas out with a mission.
• 1:36:25
  To stop people from learning about UFOs.
• 1:36:29
  They're just, they're just their own, their own Society.
• 1:36:33
  I guess of tulpas. And like, Albert Bender.
• 1:36:40
  The first guy from the story. He could have planted the
• 1:36:43
  thought. And in people's heads, that
• 1:36:46
  there are men in black suits out there, who will stop you or try
• 1:36:51
  to stop you from learning about UFOs, and flying saucers and
• 1:36:56
  Paranormal Activity and stuff like that.
• 1:36:59
  And just, yeah. So just thinking about like all
• 1:37:05
  those minds thinking about this single thing, all that mental
• 1:37:09
  power that could create the Men in Black tulpa.
• 1:37:16
  I see what you're saying. Yeah.
• 1:37:20
  All right, so that's why this one is like, very interesting.
• 1:37:24
  There's also, another is also another theory that they are
• 1:37:28
  being Partners as well. Oh gosh.
• 1:37:32
  But they've been seen during the day, so I'm not sure.
• 1:37:36
  Every video I seen, they walked into a building or the daytime.
• 1:37:40
  Yeah, but yeah, then being told was is just like, it's just the
• 1:37:44
  best because Tapas are just, you know, they're fascinating to me
• 1:37:49
  and be interesting to look into more in-depth, right?
• 1:37:52
  Right. And that's all I have for the
• 1:37:56
  Men in Black this week. We'll definitely really
• 1:38:00
  interesting. Right?
• 1:38:02
  Are you kind of got really, really into it as he in there.
• 1:38:05
  Yeah, that's awesome. So, because we're talking about
• 1:38:08
  tulpas and, like, hmmm something I can create from my mind that
• 1:38:13
  could manifest if I like focus enough.
• 1:38:18
  But yeah, those I I don't think that's something people should
• 1:38:23
  be trying to do. I mean, sounds like a bad idea
• 1:38:28
  at one point. I think it was it was brought up
• 1:38:32
  that maybe I'm not going to a certain tall.
• 1:38:38
  Skinny baseless man in his suit was at OPA as well.
• 1:38:45
  Oh gosh. That's the connection.
• 1:38:49
  You were making Slender Man. Oh hey you never know.
• 1:38:55
  Hey I mean the Men in Black have been known to kidnap children in
• 1:39:00
  the forest but hey, you never know.
• 1:39:04
  Oh, dear. Well, we had a long journey
• 1:39:09
  tonight, didn't we everyone? Yeah, we had a through the awful
• 1:39:14
  mind of the Ken and Barbie killers and their reality into
• 1:39:19
  the, I don't know if it's reality or not of the Men in
• 1:39:24
  Black situation. Well, in reality are considered
• 1:39:28
  a computer, a conspiracy theory as well.
• 1:39:30
  So who knows, it's just so many unanswered questions when it
• 1:39:35
  comes to that sort of thing. NG right.
• 1:39:37
  Exactly. As for us hopefully next week we
• 1:39:42
  will not be snowed in so we'll be back together to record our
• 1:39:45
  second our Valentine's Day podcast.
• 1:39:48
  Yes, I have a good one ready for you all next week.
• 1:39:53
  I don't get I will have it. Ready once I think that's a
• 1:39:56
  little bit more on the funny side than the devastatingly.
• 1:40:00
  Sad side like this week. Yay.
• 1:40:03
  Absolutely. But on our way out I would love
• 1:40:06
  to say thank you to our sponsors.
• 1:40:09
  Which are the magic clasp who are making our serial killer
• 1:40:15
  earrings. That will be coming out soon.
• 1:40:17
  This February. And also, to Anchor dot f, m,
• 1:40:21
  for hosting this podcast, and getting us up and running with
• 1:40:25
  ease. And we also want to say, if you
• 1:40:28
  would love to send a message to us, you can just go to Anchor.
• 1:40:31
  Dot f, m / when Killers, get caught and you can leave a
• 1:40:34
  voicemail. And if we get one that we like
• 1:40:36
  and it's interesting, we will play it during We are podcast
• 1:40:40
  for you. And you can't wait like every
• 1:40:44
  week if you would like some extra content about some kind of
• 1:40:48
  killers, I have committed to discussing a serial killer from
• 1:40:53
  every state in the United States.
• 1:40:55
  So, that's another 50 videos on Tick-Tock.
• 1:40:58
  Oh my goodness. Which is called caught podcast.
• 1:41:00
  I've only posted to so far. Probably by the time this comes
• 1:41:03
  up. They'll be at least 10 to 12 of
• 1:41:04
  them. So that's something you can look
• 1:41:06
  into Nice nice. But just as signing off to
• 1:41:11
  everybody and serial killer country we hope you have a great
• 1:41:15
  week coming up and we can't wait to tell you more about where I
• 1:41:20
  can with tell you more about some of our killer couples and I
• 1:41:23
  can't wait to tell you but more creepy things.
• 1:41:26
  Good night. Good night.