Latest / The BioHub - by Avetix / Episode 232 - Alan Bash - President Legend Biotech

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Episode 232 - Alan Bash - President Legend Biotech · The BioHub - by Avetix

• 0:06
  So welcome back to another episode of the Biohub and
• 0:09
  Avetics podcast. Today, I'm joined by Alan Bash,
• 0:13
  interim CEO of Legend Biotech. Alan joined Legend in 2024 to
• 0:17
  lead the Car Victory franchise after a career spanning biotech
• 0:21
  leadership and more than two decades at BMS, where he helped
• 0:25
  launch and grow some of the industry's most important
• 0:27
  oncology products. He now steps into the CEO role
• 0:31
  at a pivotal moment for Legend as the company looks to build on
• 0:34
  the success of CAR Victi and shape the next phase of its cell
• 0:38
  therapy journey. In this conversation, we
• 0:40
  discussed why Alan joined Legend, what has made the
• 0:43
  company successful, the recent leadership transition, scaling
• 0:47
  cell therapy manufacturing partnerships, and where Legend
• 0:51
  goes next. Pleasure to have you, Alan.
• 0:52
  How are you? Great to meet you, Max.
• 0:54
  Thanks so much. Now it's, it's really a pleasure
• 0:58
  to have you on. Honestly, it's it's been a while
• 1:00
  in the making as well, this one. So it's really good to finally
• 1:04
  get it get you here. So like, like I just said, you,
• 1:08
  you joined in 2024 to lead Carbitti.
• 1:13
  What was it about the company and the opportunity that made
• 1:15
  you want to join in the first place?
• 1:18
  Yeah. So Legend biotech is an
• 1:19
  incredible story. It was built out of some
• 1:22
  innovation, specifically looking at CAR T autologous CAR T
• 1:27
  targeting BCMA for multiple myeloma.
• 1:30
  And as many might recall, once that data was first presented at
• 1:34
  an ASCO in 2017, sort of the the entire audience was, was, you
• 1:42
  know, so excited about the potential for long term
• 1:45
  remissions and strong efficacy for patients who had run out of
• 1:49
  other options. And many pharma companies looked
• 1:52
  at the data from Legend Biotech. The biotech started in China and
• 1:56
  and said this is a product we'd love to bring globally to the
• 2:00
  market. And Jay and Jay partnered with
• 2:02
  Legend and here we are several years later, Carvicti is the
• 2:07
  number one car tea, the best selling car tea of all time.
• 2:10
  We've treated over 13,000 patients.
• 2:13
  So when I joined, it was really an incredible opportunity to
• 2:16
  take this wonderful technology that was Carvicti, continue to
• 2:20
  grow it around the world and further develop an even even
• 2:25
  earlier lines of treatment, try to help more patients with
• 2:27
  multiple myeloma as well as build the next generation of
• 2:31
  cell therapies. And that's exactly what Legend
• 2:34
  is doing. So the company is on is on a
• 2:37
  wonderful trajectory and that's that's changing patients lives
• 2:41
  with the car T car Victi, but also with the next wave as well.
• 2:46
  Yeah, I think it's a really cool story for sure.
• 2:48
  I mean, even like the rate of growth that you've had as you as
• 2:52
  you started came from China to the US and and then the
• 2:55
  commercial success it's been. Yeah, I mean, one of the
• 2:59
  standout stories in In Cell Therapy, right?
• 3:03
  Yeah. And cell therapy is not for the
• 3:05
  faint of heart as we all know. And I think a couple of things
• 3:09
  were the key to the success. Number one was the partnership
• 3:11
  with J&J. Number 2 was the dedication to
• 3:15
  building a world class manufacturing network that would
• 3:19
  enable us to take patients cells, bring them to our
• 3:23
  facilities and then you know turn them around.
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  And in the early days obviously like many, many other
• 3:28
  manufacturers and innovators, that was a learning curve.
• 3:31
  But I can very confidently say today where we are as we as we
• 3:35
  look back on, on that history today we have the best
• 3:39
  manufacturing network in the world.
• 3:41
  We are supplying over 19 markets and we have really lowered any
• 3:47
  of the add the spec issues or any of the issues that that had
• 3:50
  maybe played the industry earlier.
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  We have a very short turn around time.
• 3:54
  We're now under 4 weeks. And so we are delivering for
• 3:58
  patients when we when they want themselves back, we're giving
• 4:01
  them back their cells. So that's one piece of it.
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  The other, the other one I'll just mention is the really the
• 4:07
  the commitment to the science. We invested behind clinical
• 4:10
  studies to look at earlier lines of treatment.
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  So now we are approved and we've demonstrated overall survival in
• 4:16
  second line plus and we can talk more about that.
• 4:18
  And we also have studies enrolled for the front line.
• 4:21
  So I think it's the clinical and the manufacturing and the
• 4:23
  commercial capabilities all all together.
• 4:26
  Yeah. And you mentioned that J&J
• 4:28
  partnership and how critical that was and you know, in in the
• 4:33
  growth. Can we just talk about that a
• 4:35
  little bit more about, you know, why so how it came about and how
• 4:40
  important a partnership like that is when you're you're
• 4:43
  scaling a product globally? Yeah, J&J is the leader in
• 4:48
  multiple myeloma. And So what better partner for
• 4:51
  Legend to have than the company that knows multiple myeloma the
• 4:55
  best? And so that was very attractive
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  to Legend. And I think conversely, J&J
• 4:59
  found Legend very attractive because of the novel platform
• 5:04
  and the novel technology and the potential to cure patients with
• 5:09
  multiple myeloma that Carvic tea provided.
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  So it, it was a partnership that really has has worked and
• 5:15
  importantly we built on each other's strengths.
• 5:18
  I I think for a smaller biotech like Legend, you really have to
• 5:21
  leverage the capabilities and the scale of a big pharma while,
• 5:25
  you know, doing what we do best, which is speed and science and
• 5:29
  then, you know, building our capabilities on the, on the
• 5:31
  commercial manufacturing front. I think that's a really good
• 5:34
  point. When you have a partnership like
• 5:36
  that with a big pharma company, how do you keep that culture,
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  you know that that speed and sort of smaller biotech feel
• 5:43
  about it, especially when you're growing and your partnership
• 5:46
  partnering with one of the big giants like J&J?
• 5:50
  Yeah, I mean, it's, it's part of the DNA of legend, which is, you
• 5:54
  know, we try to work quickly because we know that there's a
• 5:57
  patient waiting on the other end and you know, that that animates
• 6:02
  everything we do. We don't we don't forego quality
• 6:05
  and we don't, we don't take shortcuts.
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  But we, we are nimble enough to say, let's get the right people
• 6:10
  in the room to make decisions. That's very important to me.
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  I know it's very important to the current leadership team,
• 6:15
  which is that we absolutely retain that even as legend
• 6:18
  grows. And, and, and right now we are,
• 6:19
  you know, we're, we're 3000 plus employees around the world.
• 6:23
  So we're not a small company. And you know, we're, we're a
• 6:28
  midcap, you know, biopharma at this point, $4 billion market
• 6:32
  cap. You know, however, we want to
• 6:34
  operate as as as quickly as any of the small biotechs.
• 6:39
  Yeah, I want to say Steve Jobs, who said Apple was the biggest
• 6:43
  startup in the world. That sort of mentality is is
• 6:47
  really. Cool mentality, absolutely.
• 6:49
  Yeah. How do you keep that though?
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  You know, is like as a company that is growing like that,
• 6:55
  that's the challenge, right? I suppose it's a culture around
• 6:58
  behaviours and the leadership team and all those points.
• 7:02
  Just are you constantly repeating those messages to make
• 7:06
  sure that you're operating in that way or is it sort of come
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  more naturally? We, we have a lot of focus on
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  our leadership values, on our core values.
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  We, we, we get a lot of inspiration from patients.
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  You know, we're, we're continuously speaking to
• 7:20
  patients, to customers, meeting with them and understanding
• 7:24
  their needs. And we're also built in a way
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  that allows us to just have, you know, very efficient
• 7:29
  conversations and decision making at the management level.
• 7:32
  Yeah. The other point you mentioned
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  right was the the manufacturing side, which has always been one
• 7:37
  of the biggest challenges in in cellular therapy.
• 7:40
  How? How has Legend done that, and
• 7:42
  why have you been so successful on the manufacturing front in
• 7:45
  comparison to others? Well, right now we have 4
• 7:49
  commercial nodes in our network, 2 supporting the US market and
• 7:53
  two supporting the primarily Europe, but but all of the ous
• 7:57
  markets, the two in the US are both in New Jersey.
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  We have the Raritan, New Jersey facility on the campus of the
• 8:05
  J&J Raritan site. It's the largest single cell
• 8:08
  therapy manufacturing site in the world just given the volume
• 8:12
  of patients that we've now supplied and and supported.
• 8:15
  And then we also have a secondary manufacturing site in
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  the US through a contract arrangement with Novartis who
• 8:21
  had you know previously done is currently doing some of their
• 8:24
  cell therapies there as well. So that's on that's for the US
• 8:27
  market. And then outside the US, our two
• 8:30
  facilities are in Ghent in Belgium.
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  And, and you know, the partnership selected that
• 8:35
  location because of the access to, you know, highly skilled
• 8:39
  talent that was there coming out of the university there, but
• 8:43
  also throughout Belgium. And we are very thrilled with
• 8:46
  the, with the production of that facility.
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  It's, it's ramped up very nicely.
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  And now we have, we're supporting, you know, all the
• 8:53
  other 18 markets around the world through our, our Ghent
• 8:56
  facilities, which are known as Obelisk and Tech Lane.
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  And, and it's a great story because, you know, and again,
• 9:02
  this predated me, but what I heard was that when, when the
• 9:05
  original, you know, team went to look at it, it was, it was just
• 9:08
  a field, you know, only a few short years ago.
• 9:11
  And I think it was through the, the commitment of both companies
• 9:14
  to invest and to, to drive the project to completion.
• 9:19
  You know, I, I think it's a great story in, in, in, in
• 9:22
  working hard for patients. Yeah, I that is a really cool
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  story because like, like we said, the manufacturing part is
• 9:29
  one of the more challenging parts of cell therapy.
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  I think you guys must have just really run with it.
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  It's like we're bringing manufacturing insight, we're
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  going big with it. We're going to build to scale.
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  Is that right or? Yeah.
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  And it was also based on the conviction of the clinical data.
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  I think that's important because if you're, if you're sort of in
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  the middle place in, in, in your clinical development and you're
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  not sure what you have and you're not sure if you have
• 9:54
  something very differentiated, it is hard for any company
• 9:57
  large, medium or small to commit the dollars.
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  But we had a lot of conviction based on the clinical data that
• 10:03
  we had a highly efficacious product or therapy that was
• 10:07
  going to then, you know, translate into overall survival
• 10:12
  in the label and translate into long term survival as we looked
• 10:15
  at 345 years. So that's exactly what's
• 10:18
  happened. So I, I, I really think that the
• 10:20
  storyline for Karvikti is mostly about the clinical data and the
• 10:25
  impact it's having. And then as a result of that,
• 10:27
  that allows companies like Legend and J&J to get there and
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  say we need to do everything we can to make sure that this
• 10:33
  clinical data becomes a reality. Earlier you you mentioned those
• 10:39
  Chinese roots that legend have as well.
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  How did that really help you build as a as a company and
• 10:48
  affect you in in whatever ways? Well, again there's there's
• 10:54
  excellent innovation coming out of China and we still continue
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  to have our early research programs starting in, you know
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  much of the work starts with China based investigator trials
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  and that enables us to look at data rather quickly and then
• 11:15
  make decisions about how we want to continue to develop programs.
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  So I think it's a great model. We we've certainly you know,
• 11:24
  our, our take is that the US and the US patients and patients
• 11:28
  around the world have benefited from this model and benefited
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  from this technology. So you know, we have, we've
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  treated now you know, over 10,000 US patients and 13,000
• 11:40
  patients globally. So we are really in a point
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  where where this innovation, which has been kind of legends
• 11:47
  model has now helped, you know, if you want, if you will,
• 11:51
  citizens around the world. I agree.
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  I think if you look at the landscape of the whole market,
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  that's sort of where it's going as well, where you have these
• 11:59
  early discovery innovative parts in China and then, you know,
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  development through the USI think the the way the market's
• 12:07
  going is quite interested in that respect.
• 12:10
  Yeah, I think, I think it's, you know, it has to be done right.
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  And not everyone can, you know, can, can bridge all of the
• 12:16
  different, you know, business, business differences and
• 12:20
  cultural differences. But Legends found a way to do
• 12:22
  that, I think very successfully. Yeah, I agree.
• 12:26
  And you obviously just stepped into this interim CEO role,
• 12:31
  pretty significant time for you guys.
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  What does this moment mean for Legend, and what are your
• 12:37
  priorities as you lead the company through this transition?
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  Well, this is an important moment because we want to
• 12:45
  continue to execute on our priorities.
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  And so my role here as the interim CEO is to make sure that
• 12:51
  we continue to deliver on our strategic priorities.
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  And in fact, we've had this leadership transition, but it's
• 12:56
  not been a transition at all in the strategy of the company.
• 12:59
  We are full steam ahead on our strategic priorities,
• 13:02
  specifically in two areas. One is with Carvicti.
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  We believe that there's significant more room for growth
• 13:07
  for Carvicti. Both Legend and J&J have talked
• 13:10
  about this becoming a $5 billion plus asset and that's because if
• 13:18
  we look at the market for multiple myeloma, we only have a
• 13:21
  small share today of all the patients who are treated for
• 13:24
  multiple myeloma. And so there's significant
• 13:26
  upside and headroom for for carving to continue to grow,
• 13:30
  especially in the earlier lines. The second key priority is
• 13:34
  developing and accelerating our pipeline.
• 13:37
  We've had a number of programs in place, but really the
• 13:40
  exciting milestone for Legend came this past June at the
• 13:45
  European Hematology Association meeting in Stockholm, where we
• 13:49
  presented for the first time clinical data for our in vivo
• 13:53
  pipeline and our in vivo platform in non Hodgkin's
• 13:56
  lymphoma. And so that's really the next
• 13:59
  leg of the journey for for Legend, which is to accelerate
• 14:03
  the in vivo program. Yeah, that's exciting.
• 14:05
  And I like how you're sort of building on all fronts now,
• 14:08
  aren't you? You've got that discovery side,
• 14:09
  the commercial side. You just go into a little bit
• 14:13
  more detail about what else is to come the next chapter.
• 14:16
  Where do you want to take the technology and and the company
• 14:19
  from here? Sure.
• 14:21
  Well, well looking ahead, we're very excited about it in vivo.
• 14:24
  And the reason is because in vivo CAR T is essentially
• 14:27
  opportunity for the body to be the manufacturing plant.
• 14:33
  Meaning that as we, as we provide the therapy directly to
• 14:37
  a patient, all of the transduction of the T cells and
• 14:41
  the change in the T cells to make them CAR T cells so that
• 14:45
  they can then recognize cancer or or other other target
• 14:49
  antigens. All that happens without us
• 14:52
  having to take the T cells out of the body, do the re
• 14:54
  engineering and manufacturing plant.
• 14:56
  It all happens inside the body. And because of that, there's no
• 15:00
  turn around time, there's no wait time, there's no apheresis
• 15:02
  cell collection, there's no lympho depletion.
• 15:06
  This is essentially an off the shelf therapy much like any
• 15:09
  other biologic. And so we we believe that within
• 15:12
  vivo with success this can be administered very easily in the
• 15:17
  community practices closer to patients with no wait time, you
• 15:23
  know, no authorized treatment centers.
• 15:25
  This becomes a normal way that we treat cancer, specifically
• 15:29
  myeloma and non Hodgkin's lymphoma and potentially others.
• 15:32
  And we could potentially be curing patients with a one time
• 15:37
  infusion of an vivo CAR T That's the promise.
• 15:40
  So we're very excited about it and we're developing it in a
• 15:43
  number of fronts now. I love that that's so hood.
• 15:47
  I mean, I mean, that was my next questions around that.
• 15:51
  You know, cell therapy has delivered what extraordinary
• 15:56
  results it's it's the access and the scalability that just
• 15:59
  remained the the major issue, which what you're talking about
• 16:02
  there. Can we just talk more generally
• 16:04
  about the the cell therapy market?
• 16:06
  Like, what do you think has to happen for cell therapy to be
• 16:08
  able to reach a much broader patient population?
• 16:12
  Sure. And it is an important topic
• 16:15
  because vivo as exciting as it is, it's still several years
• 16:19
  away from reaching patients, you know, in improved therapies.
• 16:22
  So I think for now, we really do have to invest to your point
• 16:25
  about scaling autologous Car T and we're very committed to
• 16:30
  this, we and our partners, J&J, but also other industry
• 16:33
  partners. So even though we have
• 16:35
  competitors in the marketplace, we all agree that the goal here
• 16:40
  is to bring CAR T closer to the patient.
• 16:42
  So a couple of points on this. Number one is making sure that
• 16:46
  more centers around the country and let's use the US
• 16:49
  specifically more centers around the country are authorized and
• 16:52
  approved to use the therapy. So right now we have 150
• 16:56
  authorized treatment centers, but we believe that we can
• 16:59
  continue to expand that footprint getting, getting the
• 17:02
  authorized treatment centers closer to patients.
• 17:04
  Secondly is the type of center, it doesn't just have to be the,
• 17:08
  the, the, the tertiary care or the academic centers, but
• 17:12
  actually having community and regional hospitals have access
• 17:14
  to this technology or even the local community practices.
• 17:19
  Some of them will also be able to administer CAR T.
• 17:21
  So really changing the type of of of center or site that can
• 17:26
  administer CAR T And the third one is around how, how patients
• 17:32
  will actually receive the care. Our, our product Curvicti is, is
• 17:36
  is able to be administered in the outpatient setting.
• 17:38
  So you don't have to admit patients, you don't have to have
• 17:41
  a bed necessarily lined up for their initial treatment.
• 17:45
  We can do this in an outpatient setting, wait and monitor
• 17:48
  patients to make sure that they're doing OK and if they
• 17:50
  need to be hospitalized or come in inpatient because they're
• 17:54
  having some of the common more acute toxicities that are known
• 18:00
  that and can be very easily managed, then we can admit the
• 18:03
  patient later. So enabling patients to be on an
• 18:06
  outpatient basis is also a game changer for Part T.
• 18:11
  And I suppose the issue at least why we've had this low in the
• 18:15
  cell therapy market is, is the cost of of companies getting it
• 18:19
  to that point right as well. Is that still going to be an
• 18:22
  issue when you're talking about these kind of things?
• 18:26
  It's, it's still definitely a factor.
• 18:28
  We've done a lot to make our, our manufacturing facilities
• 18:33
  and, and our programs as efficient as possible, but it's
• 18:36
  still a, you know, it's still a significant capital and, and,
• 18:39
  and ongoing expense to make sure that we can manufacture.
• 18:43
  It's, it's, it's, you know, a lot of hands have to touch the
• 18:46
  product to make sure that, that it gets handled in the right
• 18:50
  way. And we're doing all the testing
• 18:52
  and the release testing and inspection.
• 18:54
  So there's a lot that goes into it.
• 18:57
  But I would also say that from an access standpoint, you're
• 19:01
  absolutely right. You know, our goal is to make
• 19:03
  sure that we can continue to make sure that Pervicti is
• 19:08
  accessible and available to patients.
• 19:10
  So we work very closely with all of the payers to make sure
• 19:13
  there's coverage. We work very closely with the
• 19:16
  the employer groups, the policy makers to make sure they
• 19:19
  understand this is a one time treatment, right.
• 19:22
  This is a one time treatment that has a potential to cure
• 19:25
  patients. And so because of that, we have
• 19:27
  to look at the cost a little differently.
• 19:29
  There might be a higher upfront cost, but there's also an
• 19:32
  incredible long term value tail that has to be captured.
• 19:37
  Yeah. What do you think about the cell
• 19:41
  therapy market as a whole? Do you see it now bouncing back?
• 19:45
  We obviously had this low, right, where a bunch of the
• 19:49
  smaller companies, they did a big fundraise and then and then
• 19:52
  what ran out of cash before that next date results or whatever it
• 19:56
  was we've had that low. What do you think in terms of it
• 19:59
  bouncing back? I think realistically the the
• 20:03
  investment in autologous Carty will continue to be more limited
• 20:08
  from here. And that's because again the,
• 20:12
  the, the investment level is, is pretty significant.
• 20:15
  And those who are kind of already on the other side of
• 20:18
  that such as the Legend J and JS and the Karvikki's I think will
• 20:21
  enjoy a stronger leadership position in auto.
• 20:25
  I think you'll probably see more investment now in the vivo side.
• 20:29
  Alo allogeneic CAR T is an interesting Side Story because I
• 20:34
  think the data is still a little bit early in terms of its
• 20:38
  clinical ability and, and, and, and the ability to manufacture.
• 20:43
  So I, I think really where the investment's going to go is in
• 20:45
  vivo. We're excited for our leadership
• 20:48
  position there. We're only one of two companies
• 20:49
  that produced clinical data in in vivo so far.
• 20:53
  But yes, many, many companies are now chasing this.
• 20:56
  Yeah, it is interesting because you sort of had 18 months ago
• 21:00
  might have been two years ago this pivot where everyone was
• 21:02
  going to autoimmune and people getting success there as people
• 21:06
  still are. Yeah, it's the cell therapy
• 21:10
  markets definitely interesting again now for sure it's.
• 21:14
  A very dynamic market and again, I think the science is leading
• 21:17
  us. I mean the ability again to
• 21:19
  produce in vivo therapies I think is really changing the
• 21:22
  story, changing the investment thesis and and changing the
• 21:26
  excitement for for the cell therapy market.
• 21:28
  Yeah, agreed. And that brings me to my final
• 21:33
  question, which is the one I ask every one of my guests.
• 21:38
  I don't know how much of a heads up I gave you on this one, so
• 21:41
  I'll see what you say, but if you could have dinner with any
• 21:44
  scientist or innovator, past or present, who would it be and
• 21:47
  why? Well, we have we have some
• 21:49
  serious heroes in in the car T space, one of which is on our
• 21:54
  scientific Advisory Board, Carl June and and doctor Carl June
• 21:58
  from Upenn is famously known to have treated the first patient,
• 22:03
  Emily Whitehead with, with car T And today Emily is a student at
• 22:09
  Upenn. So she's grown up to not only,
• 22:12
  you know, live and thrive, but she's now able to work with Carl
• 22:17
  June in his laboratory. So that's a great story.
• 22:20
  And I think it would be great to have dinner with the two of them
• 22:22
  actually, and hear their stories together.
• 22:25
  I. Didn't know that.
• 22:26
  That's unbelievable. And yeah, believe it or not,
• 22:30
  we've not had Carl June as an answer.
• 22:32
  So I really love that. Well, I think you should have
• 22:36
  him on this podcast, Max, because you know, and, and there
• 22:38
  are many others, but you know, his vision has really helped
• 22:42
  helped bring this bring this field forward well.
• 22:44
  Look, if you can help me with that, I'd be very.
• 22:48
  I've been appreciative. He also had a few messages.
• 22:50
  From us. So if Kyle's listening, you
• 22:53
  know, we're reaching out. But look, pleasure to have you
• 22:59
  on Alan. It's what you guys are doing is
• 23:02
  is really extraordinary. And hopefully we can catch up in
• 23:05
  sort of the next year or so and see where you guys have gone
• 23:07
  next. Looking forward to it Max Thanks
• 23:10
  so much for having me. Look everyone, please like and
• 23:14
  subscribe to the Bio Hub and thank you so much again, Alan.
• 23:17
  Thank you, Max.