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She Still Knows Your Name, But Look Closer, Says Elaine Poker-Yount · A Place for Seniors

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to a place for seniors, where we share the real truth about what seniors need.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast features honest, heartfelt conversations, the ones we don't always have, but matter the most.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Here we share real stories and simple insights about aging with dignity, choice, and autonomy.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: Together, we bring what we've learned from over 20,000 conversations with seniors and their families, guiding you through some of life's hardest decisions.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: We invite you to listen, learn, and prepare with us because these conversations matter and the choices we make today shape our tomorrow.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, and welcome to a Place for Seniors podcast.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Alison Carmen, and today I have Elaine Poker Yaunt.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: And Elaine is, I've been wanting to have her on as a guest for a long time.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: We met probably two years ago at a spotlight event, right?
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: And um, but Elaine is well known in our industry as being a dementia care specialist as well as a uh family consultant, right?
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: And we know from in this industry how important that is, how we run into it all the time.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and working with people that might have some dementia but are still making their own decisions is one of our um situations that we run into a lot, that it's a tricky place to be.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so I really want to welcome you to the podcast.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so tell me a little bit about yourself.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: How did you start in this industry?
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: How did how what drove drew everybody has a story of why we did what we're why we're doing what we're doing?
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: My story's very strange and um circuitous, but thank you for having me.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: You're welcome.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: My original career was food service.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's and um at the I worked for a private dorm at this particular time in life, and every summer we had 325 to 350 seniors that came to a program called Senior Summer School.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: And we they they had college and um college and university programs all across the country where they would go for two, four, six, up to twelve weeks each summer.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so as a food service director, I had them in my food service.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so I've been working in the senior industry for about 30 years.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: I stayed with that company for a number of years and I ended up running the company before I left.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then I was tired.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and um and home care, a home care agency, one of the visiting angels franchises said, I want you to come work for me.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: You've got you've got the jam for people, and I want you to get in touch with older adults.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, No, I'm it's it's a new world, it's time to do something different.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, No, no, no.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: I said, I don't think I'm that good with this crowd.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: And they said, No, I've just listened to you over the years at networking.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: You've got the, you've got it.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: So anyway, I started with home care and I found watching, observing, learning, uh, that the more educated people were, the easier they were as clients because people just weren't tuned into a lot of different kinds of things.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I started a program called the Sandwich Generation.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: Oh.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I started doing conferences and talks, and I was blessed.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: The second year ASU hosted me, and we had about a hundred people at ASU, and it just kind of started.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: So you started educating the sandwich generation, the daughters' daughter-in-law's sons that are taking care of their aging parents.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then people started coming, and I just started I knew how people learned because I had worked for 18 years with this other company.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I knew what was important to them and I knew what held their attention.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so I took the educational piece and I just started making all different kinds of classes and then putting together seminars, sometimes half days, sometimes whole days, sometimes just a lecture at a time.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: Or interactive, because I really don't just lecture, I really try to engage the audience, especially when we're talking about teaching dementia.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: That's critical.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_01: And um, that's just how it came into being.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: And a few years ago, I said, All right, we're done with this angle.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: I want to just kind of full force go and start working with families.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and working with families.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I gave up.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: I was the director of dementia care and um um care management for visiting angels.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: But then I just roles I just gained additional skills and that made sense.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: I know that um, you know, we were talking before in all the years I've been doing this, and I've been doing it 16 years.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: We uh and and people that come to me through an advertising way or how they hear about me.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care how they hear about me.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: They either through an advertise, through a word of mouth, through a community that sends me somebody who can't afford their community, but they think that I can help them.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we often run into either a daughter or son or daughter-in-law who is not educated uh about dementia.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so they don't they they'll I'll say, well, is I used to say, is there any dementia?
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: I don't say that anymore.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: I say I ask questions so that I can understand if there's memory loss at any stage, right?
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: And and because if I said, is there any dementia, well, no, no, she still knows my name.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's what that they would say.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's pretty standard.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's like well, and really so many people just think that of dementia is memory loss.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: They don't look at the fact that we're late to where we're going or we're not going to the right place, or maybe we got lost somewhere.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: They don't equate that with dementia.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh or losing your car, losing walking in the grocery store and not knowing where you are.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: I have that story all the time.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: Even as simple as putting the cup down and drop, you know, not not visually getting things where they need to be.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because your vision has changed.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: Your vision changes from going 35 on the highway or 45 in the neighborhood.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: All of those things come into play.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I always focus too on those questions, the curiosity questions.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: What changes?
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: Do you are you seeing any changes?
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: What's worrying you?
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: What's worrying you?
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: And then of course, uh I would get calls like, um, well, she's going out at midnight and knocking on the neighbors' doors, and um, she she's convinced there's somebody gonna kill her, or they're coming out of the lights, or they're, you know, now we're in hallucination and delusions and things like that.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: So we're way past.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: Now that could be a UTI too, right?
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: That even a tooth infection.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, right.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: I yes, yes.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: Who was it that I was talking to the other day that was talking about the teeth?
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it was a lady that I placed her husband, very sad, um, Parkinson's um dementia.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: And not so much dementia, but the Parkinson's was really getting bad.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: But the teeth were such were causing all kinds of UTIs.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: And it was uh because he wasn't, he couldn't, he shook so bad he couldn't uh brush his teeth well.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's just it's fascinating, all the little things that interplay together that we never really consider.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: But those are the kinds of things that when you're knowing what to look for, you can take those threads and start piecing the reality.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: And and we are detectives.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's what we have to be is detectives.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: And at the same time, not alienate them and not have them put their, you know, hang up the phone or not want to talk to us.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: We we want to necessarily much necessarily help and try to understand where we are in this whole spectrum of a dementia diagnosis, if even if we don't have a dementia diagnosis.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because right.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: So what's the statistic?
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: Half the people that get diagnosed get diagnosed by this about mid-stage, and the other half of the people are not getting diagnosed at all.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I I I'm a I watch for the isolation where they've been living in their home too long.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I do a seminar as well, where uh one of the main things I open up with is isolation, because isolation is a 50% increase in dementia.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I worry so much when people say, Oh, she's 88, she's doing fine, she's in her home.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: What is she doing during the day?
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: What is she, who is she interacting with?
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: Where is the socialization?
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: Because you do not respond to a television or a radio show or whatever.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: And that lack of response gives such a leg time in how our processing works, and it slows our processing down even more.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: Even more.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: It slows it down even more.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that by having a conversation, even if it's even if it's, I always say, even if your parent is an introvert and they just want to go down and have a cup of coffee and sit by themselves, having people walk by and say hello, they have to recognize who they are.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: They have to look at their face, they have to rip say, oh, that's a familiar face, just that little brain.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: And then even verbalize, even with the verbalizing of the hello or the nod of the head.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's a back and forth interaction.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why socialization is so important because you really do need two to tango.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: Even just a nod of the head.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that a lot of the um sandwich generation, the children, and I'm really focusing on them right now because we've got the baby boomers turned 80.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: We've got this huge tsunami of people that are, you know, we've got a workforce that is trying to work.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: They're trying to take care of their children, possibly, a significant other, and now an aging parent.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: And that aging parent, I think one of the things I'm I have a question for you.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: So one of the things that I have started to notice was where the they're telling me, well, she's calling me five or six times a day.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: Well, uh obvious, you know, then there's an issue there.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: Your mom never used to do that.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: She was busy or your dad, they were busy, you know, or they go and visit on the weekend and then you watch their face just drop because they're not um, they're so unhappy, uh, they're so sad that you're leaving because you're their focus.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: Well, too.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then when we do those short visits, we really need to stay in the home.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's something that's really critical.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because if we're staying at a hotel and we're only seeing them for little snippets at a time.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: Oh.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're visiting, you should be staying.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: To kind of see what the changes are.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: Because our amygdala, our little lizard brain in us will say, Oh, we're seeing so-and-so.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna make you look so good.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: And and they won't see the reality of what's happening.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: But when you are watching them in their home, seeing the way they deal with the refrigerator and the coffee pot and the medications and the routines, you will see so much more than just when you're meeting for lunch or going to the museum or spending the afternoon shopping.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: There were a couple signs for me with my mom.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: I shared with you that I t took care of my mom.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I was working at at a big bank at the time.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: I was had a pretty high-powered job.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I went to visit her over the weekend.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: Now, my mom was a real estate agent.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: She'd been a real estate agent for 45 years.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and she always did this little marketing thing where she had these little square uh calendars, and she would put them, you know, the label on, the stamp, the return address of everything, right?
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: So she had it all laid out on her table.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I had never helped her with anything.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: Growing up, my mom was just, you know, absolutely constantly busy.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: She was always doing her own thing.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: And and she said, Allison, can you help me with this?
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Help you?
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: I said, What do you need me to do?
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: And um, well, she said, these things.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I she had it all laid out, which was interesting.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I put the envelope, I put it in the envelope, I put the label on, I put the stamp on and everything.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: I said, Is this what you mean?
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: And and she said, How did you do that?
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, this is weird.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: But in my little brain, I just shoved it back.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: I just ignored it because I just thought, well, that's not rationalized.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's very normal for all families.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know that.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: But right, right.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: Design that.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: I I just didn't realize that how significant that was, that sequence of not being able to do that sequence.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: Or how did you do it so quickly?
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: How did you do it so quickly?
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's another one.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: She just couldn't believe my mom was, you know, she was just like, Oh, Allison, how did you do that?
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and I was like, What are you talking?
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: It was like a big deal.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I was like, You taught me.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: I watched it.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: You taught me.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you put something in an envelope, you put a label on it.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: Mom, this is not rocket science, right?
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: And then I, as hindsight being 2020 over the years, I thought, well, how should was she cooking?
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: If she couldn't do that, how was she putting a meal together for herself?
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: How was she driving?
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: How was she, you know, what were the other things?
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: And there was one other sign.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: This was probably another six months later.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we were gonna have some people over to the house and we were gonna get um, we were gonna uh do a little makeup demonstration.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: And she was supposed to have all the jars open and it all laid out.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I it nothing was done when I got there.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: And the ladies are sitting in the living room, and I go in their back bedroom, I go, Mom, what are you doing?
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: Why don't you have this already?
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: And there was no answer.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: She didn't have an answer for me.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I could just see this like um confusion, not really confusion, but just like I blank, I blank.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: She couldn't answer, but she kept working with the jars, you know, like she kept pretending she was doing something, but she really wasn't doing anything.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: It was so subtle.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: Initiation is one of the things, you know, initiation, follow through, completion.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: Those steps are also something that are clues.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but when people don't know to look for that, right?
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: You don't think about it, and you're in an off situation.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's a room full of people, you're not looking to evaluate right now.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: You're just thinking, huh?
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: Let me help.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: Let's get it done.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: Let's get it done.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe just we're overwhelmed.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: And we don't go back and assess or put the pieces together.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, and I shared this with you too.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think one of my biggest regrets was yelling at her when she when I did finally bring her home and had her just my knee-jerk, right?
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: Which is grab mom, bring her to my house because there were five kids.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: We couldn't decide on what to do.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: Everything was too expensive.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody was really looking at what things cost.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: We just all assumed it was too expensive.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: So that's one of the areas I really like to focus on is like family management or you know, family cohesion.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that's always one of my happiest places.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: If I can get the entire family on Zoom and at the kitchen table and together, we can I can do kind of a short class because being an educator is really my happiest place because if we we can't do better until we know better.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: And there are some really basic things that nobody teaches in a general sense.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: We just don't get that.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so getting that information into people's headspace for them to be able to process and getting them to really understand what their loved one is going through.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I have some different exercises where I can do that, and it's pretty startling for families to kind of understand this is why.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, not only is the brain changing, but this is how the what the effects are of those changes, right?
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: So if I can get everybody on the same page to understand some of the basics, we can assess how everybody who's interested in helping can help the situation because a lot of times people criticize how you're doing things, or even how you know mom or dad is doing things because they should try it this way.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: But those people are in the trenches and they know every day how to connect with their people and what they need to do.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: And they work very codependently.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: Very codependently.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: And even people with very late-stage dementia, Alzheimer's, whatever kind of dementia you have, they can be very in tune and very capable of things that have been routine for them for a long time.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: Routine is one of the ways we learn.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: So if we've been doing this for a long period of time, muscle memory keeps us going in that direction.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: If especially they look like they're okay.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think that I um I I end up guiding, not not necessarily counseling, but guiding people through all different phases.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the phases that um myself and a another really close friend of mine with her mom, um, she had like a hematoma.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: She was in a memory care facility.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: She had a hematoma on her chest.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so she uh the daughter was convinced that she needed to take her to get a MRI and and you know, all these tests and everything.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: But she was in pretty advanced stages of Alzheimer's.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: And we had to have a discussion about whether we really want to take mom out of her environment into a hospital environment where nobody knows how to work with somebody with dementia.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: They don't know how to manage her feelings or or go slower because they've got another patient right behind her or something like that.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: So we had to really talk about is what is the result?
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: If there is a result of the test, are you gonna have her operated on?
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: Are you going to have, you know, if it's cancer, are you gonna have chemotherapy?
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, what is the result of understanding this?
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: Those are big family conversations that absolutely had to be had.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um to find out, especially when you've got people that are all weighing in to make decisions.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because everybody feels vested in some way.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: And everybody has different decisions.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, everybody thinks differently.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh a lot of times I run into families where one sibling is taking care of the mom or dad, and the other siblings are criticizing.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: And they don't really they think that, you know, I had one lady that I she was at her wit's end.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: But her uh and we found a great place that was affordable.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think her mother was in her 90s, and the other daughter said, no, we can't afford it.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yet they were gonna let this other daughter who needed to go back to work.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: So you've pulled somebody out of the workforce, first of all, for years sometimes.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: That's some of the biggest costs of caregiving of the people that don't get paid.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: I know, that are losing wages and challenging their own family situations.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: Well, then how do you go back to work after you've been out of work for five years or six years with technology and everything advancing?
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: How do you now face, you know, now you've used up all your resources, you have no resources, and you have no way to uh make a living, you know?
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: So that's where that education piece really comes in.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: There's so many different levels, and even about finding resources and things that people don't understand.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: And when does veterans aid and attendance come into play?
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when is Medicare appropriate?
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: When, you know, what are the other people?
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: What are the changes in Medicare?
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: What will work consistently?
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: What does home care cost?
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: Is that the best solution?
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: And even the new guide program, the guide program works for people who have regular Medicare.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: And people aren't aware of that.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and it can give you some assistance in home care, paying for home care, but people on advantage plants don't have that as an option.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: And and finding good sources of information.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's the hardest thing.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: Most people just don't know what they don't know and they don't know where to start.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: They don't know how to get a hold of us.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and a lot of times I feel like the uh I'm working with if we're dealing in a crisis, it's like trying to educate like in minutes, you know, and it's very um, I'm pretty good at it, you know, and I but you have to walk a line that you don't want to upset them.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: You can't blame in any way, right?
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: You have to educate very quickly and try to use very key words that they can understand, and then they have to make a decision.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: And you need to lead them to um, you know, you need to give them options so that they can make decisions with the right information.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: With the right information.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I do these seminars, um and the the spectrum of information goes from what's your plan B to how to advocate for yourself when you're in the hospital, the rehab, right, you know, and even the doctor's office.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: How do you have conversations with doctors?
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we just had a big conference this weekend, and all of those components that you have just mentioned, we had resource partners in the room to be able to discuss those things.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: And we had speakers to talk about what are the things we need to really look at proactively so that when we are in crisis mode, we already have a plan.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh those are the things that I learned in home care.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: What we have, if we can get those things in order ahead of time, then when the crisis happens, we've got somewhat of a plan, or at least having a conversation with our family members of how do you want it handled when?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: And they don't want well, it's not, I don't know that it's like they don't want to talk about passing away, which I don't want you to talk about passing away.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to talk about when I fall and break my hip.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: When there's not enough money to stay at home, when we find all the food in the refrigerator expired.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: Expired.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: When you're not able to drive anymore, but can't see that that's happening anymore.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: And we don't want to be the bad guys.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: How do you do you want care in your home?
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the the classic comment is there will be no strangers in my home.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm not moving anyone else.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: But it you know, it doesn't matter.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: And getting it.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think even people know the amount of money it costs to have somebody in your home.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: So no, not nobody who's the a lot of people don't even understand the concept of home care.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: Much less what it is and that there's over 400 of them.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, to to be able to go in there.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: But so all these educational pieces, that's the part that I really focus on when I'm looking at being in community to people.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I I think that just naturally I'm the same way.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: I um have worked with uh, well, when I was an escrow officer, I was educating people on how what was happening on the closing of their house.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: I was constantly walking them through all the pieces of buying this house and having them sign big notes of and deeds of trust because of huge, it was the biggest decision anybody makes, other than married, marriage, divorce, and child, having a baby, uh, is buying a house, right?
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I was through that.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I learned to educate through that.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: Then I was an engineer and I was educating again.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: I was educating executives and everything.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: And then I got into this and I realized how serious it is.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's well, well, first of all, we're always dealing with life and death.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: We're dealing with, and I I all I say that easily, but it's true.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm dealing with people's last years of their life in many, many ways.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: None of us think we're gonna die, though, right?
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: So everybody thinks they're gonna live forever.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really hard to make decisions around that when you you say, you know, I kind of have to bring it home.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: This this is probably our, you know, we want to make these last years the best years, right?
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh a hundred percent.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: I I've had personal experiences even with family when they signed on to hospice.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: But that doesn't mean that they're dying.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: That just means they're getting a little bit of a lot of people.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people don't understand that.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, what do you mean, hospice?
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it means you can be on hospice for two years or more sometimes.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: They re-evaluate every six months.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: But if you've got a terminal disease, you can be on hospice or whatever the situation is.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: Dementia can be a hospice-related reason or a reason for hospice, I would think.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah, I think it's fascinating.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think that um when I talk to a dementia specialist, um I think that um we need to have a really good understanding and a really good education out there.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you're excellent.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: I've I've read through all of your website.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: Your website is wonderful.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: What is the name of your website so people can go?
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: Successful aging a Z.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: Successful Aging A Z.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not just about um dementia, as I read through it.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: I I work with families.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I I have a whole system for families who are long distance caregivers.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, really good and how to be careful.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: How to be a caregiver long distance and what are the kinds of things that you need to do, and what kind of ducks do you need to have in a row, and how do you stage it?
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, even those kinds of things.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because a lot of people don't even know the names and phone numbers of their parents, most commonly, you know, hung out with contacts.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: Who their friends are and having their emails and who's going to the doctor with them.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: And getting them to understand.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's really important to go to the doctor with them.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: That um so even before my mom, 10 years prior to that, my dad and mom had been going to the doctor by themselves.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I didn't know none of us, five kids, knew that he had terminal cancer.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't understand what stage four meant.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't understand anything until my mom kind of raised a warning flag.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I was in between projects.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I said, Well, I'll go to the doctor with him.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'll find out what's going on, right?
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'll I'll be the person that walks in.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: And at that point, the doctor had her back to him with a very thick um East Indian accent and was saying, the kidneys are failing, this is failing, this is failing.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: I just watched his eyes get bigger and bigger, and I thought, wait, stop right there.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: First of all, you're gonna turn around and talk to my dad, you know, and you're gonna go a lot slower.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: And we're I'm gonna start taking notes here.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: And in 13 days, he was he had passed.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: So it was like a huge, big deal.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I still think about that.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: And that was 20, 2012.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: Those are little skills that people don't even think about, but those are the greatest gifts that we can share with a family member when you're doing things.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: And the eye contact thing is nuts to me.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: Because it happens all the time.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: All the time.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: And then they say, Oh, I've been in the hospital with people who haven't had dementia, and they're like, Oh, they have dementia, they're not answering.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, they don't have their hearing aids in because it's quarter to midnight, and they don't have their glasses on, and we hear better with our glasses on because our eyesight validates what we're hearing.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, those kinds of things.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: And you have to sit there and be the person who advocates and says, no, no, no, we need to deal with it a little bit differently.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: That is so huge and so common.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: And things are getting a lot better.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: But I do also believe that we need a system in hospitals that has maybe the Alzheimer's forget me not flower on the door.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: So they know they're walking into a room that's some level of brain change.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: Are they are they uh that would be a good question?
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: I have a really good question for you.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: So so many times um we have people that are strapped down in beds and things because they're uh they're they call it behaviors, but that's not what what's happening.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: They're being approached incorrectly.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: And and so why don't they why aren't they trained in dementia when we've got such a huge geriatric population?
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I can't answer that, but the I will tell you, ERs are getting my the ERs are really doing well in that realm compared to how they used to.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: And when you get to the floor, you might have one or two people who've got a a good clue about what's going on.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: But my personal experiences in the last, I'm gonna say 10 years have not been particularly great in that capacity.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: So teaching families, you need to be there.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: You need to be there.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: Somebody needs to be there 24-7.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: I say that.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: I say that over it.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: It is my mantra.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: If your parent, if your parents going to skilled nursing rehab, somebody needs to be there 24-7.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: Our personal experience was my father-in-law was in the hospital, and if we didn't have somebody there 24-7, he would have died three different times.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, yeah.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it there's just so much, there's so much need here.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: And staff is over because I've got a lot of good friends that are nurses, and what they're needing to be able to accomplish, you know, staffing is hard everywhere.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's very hard.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so if everybody were to work together to share that information, it really makes a big difference in the outcome for what we're having to deal with.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well, people are scared.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: And people are scared.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really, really hard to make a decision when you don't know what you don't know and you don't know where to turn, you don't know who to call.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: So you can always um go to um Elaine's website, which is Successful Aging Successful SuccessfulAgingA Z.com.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: Successfulagingaz.com.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: You can also go to a placeforseniors.org.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's my website.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: Elaine, I really thank you for joining us today.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: This has been wonderful.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's important to have you back on so that we can do another deep dive into this because it's so important for people to be educated and know not only be educated, but know where they can turn if they need answers.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: And anybody who connects with me looking for assistance, everybody gets a free 30 minutes of time.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: Wonderful.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: So we can kind of get get the big stuff out of the way.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: And um they can understand what I can do for them.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: Perfect.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: Perfect.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you so much for joining us today.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: And again, you can go to a placeforseniors.org, and I look forward to talking to you next time.