Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to the glorious Ross Aitken about his choice of The Crimson Horror

Transcript

Talks to the glorious Ross Aitken about his choice of The Crimson Horror · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:23
  None. Hamster with a blunt pen knife
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  for doing quicker, quicker, quicker.
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  Welcome back to Hamster with a Blunt pen Knife, the Doctor Who
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  Commentary Podcast. I'm Ross Hakin and I'm here with
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  my guest, Joe Ford. Oh, hello.
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  I'm absolutely delighted to be here.
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  Thank you for having me. Thank you.
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  It's been a long time since we chatted.
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  Last time we chatted was Fugitive of the dot of The
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  Fugitive of the June, which is still one of my favorite one of
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  my favorite podcasts I've ever been on, including all of my
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  hundred 200. Jeff might be listening to this.
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  You know, he was Joe. He was pissed.
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  He was like, oh, you got that one?
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  I went. Excuse me, he's done resolution.
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  He's done. He's done, yeah.
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  He doesn't have anything he, but he's the go to for Jody.
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  He's a go to for Jody. Well, well, he did my Power of
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  the Doctor as well, but I've actually just had somebody on,
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  you know, doing all six episodes of The Flux.
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  He did all of them. And yeah, it's a massive bumper
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  recording, split over time, of course.
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  But yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a lot to talk about in
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  one sitting. I don't want to hear that
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  because I am. I'm a big fan of that here, of
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  that, that whole Jody here, I think.
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  I think it was refreshing. Great.
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  Ross, what's happening in sort of your podcast here at the
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  moment? What are you recording?
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  So for gala phrase, I'm just doing the gala phrase Most
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  wanted. I don't do the presents or the
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  run. Some reports right now because
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  it's just me. Victoria is taking an extended
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  break and I've been lucky to have some great guests.
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  I've had Marvin, Melvin Pena, come on and talk 8th Doctor.
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  He's really good. Mark introduces because I came
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  on one of theirs on a trap one, and he's just.
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  He lives in North Carolina, my wife's home state just South of
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  me, and I've just said, guess my wife was just guested on.
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  We did Impossible Planet and the Day of the Moon, Possible
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  Astronaut Day of the Moon, and I've got plans for the woman who
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  fell to Earth. Oh, you do.
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  Yes. Yes, Yes.
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  So I'll say. That, hey, you've got a very
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  handsome, charismatic guest coming on.
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  Yeah, I'm looking very forward to have.
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  I'm looking forward to him being on the podcast.
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  It's a get for me, that's a get my wife because you're really
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  excited, said oh, I love his show.
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  It's like I always like to get someone great.
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  And there's one thing I can talk about is Jodie Whisker as the
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  Doctor in that episode. I rewatched it just for shits
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  and giggles a couple weeks ago and went this is so much better
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  than so many First Doctor stories.
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  Well then, can I ask you a question?
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  Why are we watching a Jodie Whitaker episode today?
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  Well you because I wanted to do a a Matt Smith one because Matt
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  is my doctor and there are a couple you This was the third
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  one. It was my third choice because
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  the other two had already been done and we're going to do we're
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  doing the one we're doing today because I love most Margatus
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  episodes. I'm a Margatus fan.
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  I I like. That can't explain that, all
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  right? When he hits, he hits to me
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  because it is just a love letter to the show and don't try to do
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  anything other than that. I think Empress of Mars.
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  I loved it. Really fun.
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  Yeah, it was fun. And it was just you could have
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  put Jon Pertwee in it, you could have put Tom Baker in it, you
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  could have put anybody from. You see, Peter could pulled his
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  hair. John Perry was in it.
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  Yeah, we are. Yeah, that is just an
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  uncontrolled Bush on the top of his head.
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  But you know what I mean. It it's it's keep it simple,
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  stupid. But I really don't like victory
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  of the Daleks. I find it spunky. the United
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  Benetton of the Daleks. Is he really?
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  God no. That that's to me is missed
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  potential 'cause that's a great idea.
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  It's a brilliant idea, but yes, it doesn't.
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  It doesn't land. There's some characters that are
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  kinda shoehorned in and just uneven and just uneven.
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  And what's it? There's another one I really
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  don't like of his that I really doesn't land for me, but.
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  I really like the Idiot's Lantern.
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  I think that's really strong. It's one of my favorites.
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  And Victoria, it's one of Victoria's absolute favorites
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  because it is a really good. There's some great moments.
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  There's something about I'm not the biggest tenant fan and I
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  think it's just I get snobby with over.
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  It's like Tom Baker in America. It's over familiarity.
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  Everybody else likes it. So I'm gonna be a Scott and not
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  like it. I absolutely get that the yeah,
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  yeah, it's just. You know I do it.
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  And it's like, you know, when something's popular and I'm
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  like, well, I'm not going to watch that.
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  Then everyone's forgotten about it and then I'll watch it.
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  The only person that's missing out is me.
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  Yeah, And I. But can I go back?
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  And I went, you know, there's a reason David Dennett is
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  incredibly popular because he's an incredibly good actor and he
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  understands what he's doing. And I, as much as I am a Moffett
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  fan and I do think he has a weakness at Davies doesn't.
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  Davies was a control freak, and it helped.
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  The massive rewriting that he did was helpful.
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  It was sort of consistent, wasn't it?
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  It was to make it consistency. It was make it a house style.
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  It was to keep down on the clunkers that he knew were
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  coming. And you know, and that said, if
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  you read anything that Davey says is the only person he
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  didn't rewrite was Moffett. And there's a reason, because
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  when Moffett's focused on a great story, they're great.
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  My favorite Davey's here is ones are blank.
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  You know the ones he's done, I think.
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  I think Silence in the Library is a masterpiece.
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  I think, I think Moffett's Moffett's stories in Davis's
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  time are probably the best new series episodes, Some of them.
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  Some of them, yeah, they are. They are.
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  Bennett shows that when he is free of ego and free of control,
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  which is painful and he doesn't, and be honest, he doesn't have
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  his wife producing him because there's a level of quality to
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  the shows that his wife is in charge of.
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  Yeah, their The Dracula was consistent, was pretty good.
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  I enjoyed it and I like Sherlock, especially the ones
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  written by Gatiss. OK, but his wife's a better
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  producer than he is. Does that make sense?
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  So. Terrific.
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  I, I, I I'm never entirely sure that he is a successful
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  showrunner. But I think he at his on form,
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  he's one of the best writers we ever has.
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  Yeah Yeah, I think I agree with that.
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  He's not the show. The way we do it in this country
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  now is similar. It's the we I call it the weed
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  in model because it's really coming after that writers strike
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  right before Buffy came out when writers would own their
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  material. I mean Weeden doesn't own, but
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  he owns 49% of Buffy. 2 Dry Cleaners own 51%.
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  I found out. But my buddy Steve Moore, he's a
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  stand up comic. He's he's no longer with us.
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  He. But he did.
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  He was the the opening person at the sitcom for Roseanne where
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  someone keeps the audience occupied.
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  He came to Virginia to get HIV treatment here at the hospital
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  where I work, 'cause they were the first with a cocktail.
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  And he talked about it, 'cause there's a comedian, she's in a
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  first season episode, She plays the mom, she's this brash.
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  She's comedian only, but they're best friends.
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  And she got the gig. It's because the two people
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  owned the dry cleaner were also our agents.
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  So when you see produced by these two weird names you've
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  never heard, they owned a series of dry cleaners in LA, and they
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  own, they are at 1.151 above it, but back to that.
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  But the model is you have a writing producer, but in America
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  you also have a director who's a producer.
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  Yeah, and then you have the producer.
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  That's telling them is you're out of your damn mind.
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  I can't get you the money producer.
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  Associate producers. I mean, it goes on and on and
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  on, isn't it? Yeah, and they break it.
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  It's just one. It's one person's vision, but
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  what hits the screen? It's a big group effort and it
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  and it really works. I'm a big Supernatural fan.
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  You have Bobby Singer, who's a character, but he's also the
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  dead director. And then you had Kripke and then
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  other people. Aaron Sorkin, when he did West
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  Wing, his other producer was a guy named Tommy Shalomi.
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  And you just you, it balances everything out, 'cause you got
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  someone going, these are the good words.
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  This is someone going you need to cut it, 'cause I can't cheat
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  that. And then you got someone going.
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  I can't get you money to do that.
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  Oh, I don't think there was anyone powerful enough to say to
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  Steven Moffett. Is this a good script?
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  Is this any good? Should we be doing this?
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  Like, you know, and we know that he had arguments with producers
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  and there's that famous story, isn't there, about Caroline
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  Skinner and him screaming at her.
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  You're going to be erased from Doctor Who because I think maybe
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  she did have the cajones at one point to say this isn't what we
• 9:31
  should be doing. Yeah, I think.
• 9:33
  I think he needed a Phil Collinson or he wasn't going to
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  say anything like that to Julie Gardner.
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  Oh Jesus Christ, you'd have whipped his balls off quicker
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  than you can say wrestle on his rod.
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  She had, yeah, she had a cup, something really hard.
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  And he had just dropped his knees and said, yes, ma'am.
• 9:49
  What's interesting about Gates is obviously everybody was
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  saying that, oh, he'd be the next showrunner.
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  You know, he I don't think he wants the gig.
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  He's got the TV chops. I think you're right as well.
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  But there's enough episodes of Gates's new series Who now that
• 10:04
  you could almost put them all together and see roughly what a
• 10:08
  Mark Gatiss show. Rather the season of Doctor Who
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  would look like and it's very idiosyncratic like he can turn
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  his hand to a lot of different things.
• 10:17
  Yeah, it's all over the place. He's gay and but I think what
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  the the luxury he has is he's only doing one every couple
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  years and the one we're about to talk to was a little more
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  planned out in a way because he was it was written for the star
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  of it. Oh, the star of it.
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  Well, she is the star of. It we haven't even mentioned
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  what we asked about. We're going to be talking about
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  The Crimson Horror today. Crimson Horror.
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  I can't do it. Nothing.
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  The. Crimson Horror, which is, I
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  think it's a pretty celebrated episode in an uncelebrated
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  season. That fair?
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  Really. I I think people.
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  Maybe it's because I'm so used to people hating on the gayest
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  ones. I just felt and I hate them.
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  I mean, I don't hate, but there are some greatest ones I don't
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  like, you know? I just don't think they hit.
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  But I think when he nails it, he nails it.
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  And you know what? And with this one as well, like,
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  he makes a really savvy decision for me.
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  And I know we're going to talk about Matt Smith, but he
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  basically writes Matt Smith out at the 1st 15 minutes of this.
• 11:24
  I'm in absolute heaven. You know, we've got the
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  Paternoster Gang in Victoria in London with all this crazy
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  macabre comedy horror schlock that is perfected in the League
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  of Gentlemen. And no, this is what I've
• 11:37
  figured his Doctor Who would look like from the start.
• 11:40
  And when it wasn't that, I was really baffled.
• 11:42
  So when this hit finally, this sort of really weird horror
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  comedy Doctor Who, I was like, yeah, this is his wheelhouse
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  baby. Like, this is what he does
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  really, really well. Oh yeah, I mean he did a .3 part
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  documentary on the history of horror and film.
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  I don't know if you've ever seen it.
• 12:01
  It's worth Googling. It's on YouTube.
• 12:03
  It's great, 'cause he does universal.
• 12:07
  He he no, he does like black and white and then he does universal
• 12:11
  and then he does John Carpenter era and it's really enlightening
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  and I know this horror. He knows his stuff.
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  He's like me. I grew up reading Star Log and
• 12:24
  Starburst and all the science fiction movie once he was
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  reading Fangoria and stuff like that.
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  So he knows his stuff and he knows how to you know, there's a
• 12:36
  this one has got a little just enough creepy in it and it's got
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  that horror kind of villain cause Diana Riggs Oh my God man,
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  she's a fucking genius. It's she's just amazing because
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  she is just absolutely, gloriously evil.
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  Why don't you know what? She's not afraid, but like we
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  used to die in a rugby and very glamorous, aren't we in the 60s?
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  She's not afraid to be just utterly grotesque in this issue.
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  No. And to embrace it that no, that
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  you can't. I have no morals for you to kind
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  of my the the the the great, the great line in it.
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  What are these the wrong hands? A bit I love is just where she
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  pulls her shawl away and that. Horrible little creatures there
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  in her chest. And I was like, oh God, I read
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  go for it. But you're amazing.
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  Oh my God, I I sent you this, but I watched.
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  It was an interview with Charles Dance and Mark Gatiss talking
• 13:33
  about her after she died, two of her friends and someone in that.
• 13:38
  In the interviewer, I asked Charles Dance what he thought of
• 13:41
  her and he said she's just an old broad and.
• 13:47
  That in some circles would be you can't call her that.
• 13:50
  And I'm like going my mom was a little broad.
• 13:53
  My my, my wife wanted to meet, was about to meet my stepmother.
• 13:56
  And she said, what's your stepmother like?
• 13:58
  She goes, oh, she's a classic broad from Pittsburgh, born in
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  the 50s. She's awesome.
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  She's hard as nails. And I went, that's a great
• 14:07
  description for her because I've never heard anyone who acted
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  with her didn't just say the best things about her, and that
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  she was just a regular sweet person and could tell a body
• 14:17
  story. And you know, just like any
• 14:19
  actor, they talk. You know, they sit around bored
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  half the time and tell crappy stories about each other.
• 14:24
  And she worked her whole life, right up to her death.
• 14:27
  And she was working on all the prestige shows.
• 14:30
  Game of Thrones Doctor Who, right up until the end.
• 14:32
  You know. Well, she's probably one of the
• 14:34
  greatest. I went down this Sondheim rabbit
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  hole recently because I'd heard, Oh my God, I'm forgetting her
• 14:43
  name. She's an English actress and she
• 14:45
  did. They did a revival of Follies,
• 14:50
  which has some great songs for women.
• 14:52
  And there's this actress who had played Judy Garland.
• 14:55
  Oh my God, I can't remember her name.
• 14:56
  But she was also on Cory at 18 and became famous later.
• 15:00
  OK, OK, but she sang the song I'm still Here.
• 15:03
  It's just about an old actress. He's going.
• 15:05
  I'm still here. I did this, but I'm still here.
• 15:08
  And I was going, I want to see how Ellen Page did that, all
• 15:11
  these songs, because I like that version.
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  And then I went. Diana Riggs was in Follies.
• 15:17
  Wow. And she sang.
• 15:19
  I went fuck me. She can sing.
• 15:23
  I didn't realize it. I didn't realize that she had.
• 15:25
  She sang, She sang song time I went.
• 15:28
  People think she was just that Avengers go.
• 15:30
  And don't get me wrong. Well, see, in America, that's
• 15:32
  all we remember. Yeah.
• 15:33
  She defined that bloody role. As The Avengers go, she Yeah,
• 15:36
  she's like a powerhouse. It's amazing.
• 15:39
  And or she's the ultimate Bond girl, 'cause she's just such a
• 15:42
  better. I mean, and sometimes I'm saying
• 15:44
  all the Bond girls were bad actresses, but she made more out
• 15:48
  of a role because I think the director and the producers are
• 15:52
  going, this guy Lansby is OK. She's amazing.
• 15:57
  You got to lift him up. You and Telly Savalas got to
• 16:01
  kind of walk him through stuff because you guys are pros and
• 16:04
  he's an Australian model. I wasn't in tears at the end,
• 16:07
  'cause he was sad. I was in tears at the end
• 16:09
  because we'd lost Diana Rigg, you know, my God.
• 16:13
  And she did everything I didn't. I never watched Game of Thrones,
• 16:15
  but I've seen some of the scenes where she's with people.
• 16:18
  Really. She is running that show and
• 16:21
  that's what him and she, Charles Dancer was like going.
• 16:24
  We were no, we both were having a ball because we were just
• 16:27
  playing such evil people and they're the best roles.
• 16:29
  And we just sat there and talked, enjoyed it.
• 16:31
  So she, I mean that she did a doctor.
• 16:33
  I was like, why? And then that was 'cause they
• 16:35
  had been on stage together, the three of them.
• 16:39
  Rachel Sterling, I. Know.
• 16:42
  I mean, she's brilliant in this as well and it's, I think that's
• 16:45
  what it is, is they really give the show over to them.
• 16:50
  She's taken over, you know, from Sold Deed for me.
• 16:53
  Sold, Sold deed. That line in the horns of Neymar
• 16:55
  where he goes, you meddlesome hussy.
• 16:57
  Now I say, you perfidious hag. You know, I, like you ended up
• 17:03
  conversation in a message in Twitter message with that and I
• 17:07
  don't you didn't respond to my response was how did you know my
• 17:09
  safe word. But no you're right.
• 17:15
  She does. She just she steals the scene.
• 17:17
  And I think it's the reason Matt's missing it later and
• 17:20
  Clara is in it even further is. Yeah, We haven't even touched on
• 17:25
  Clara yet. Haven't we?
• 17:28
  I'm of a mixed I I defend Jenna Coleman and people go she.
• 17:33
  You know my problem with people. I get real defensive like
• 17:36
  people. When the anti Jody people were
• 17:40
  attacking people online, I felt that as a Moffett fan I took
• 17:44
  some hits and. There was a, there was, there
• 17:48
  was a everybody. There's a viciousness in the
• 17:50
  Internet and it's like, and I took it personal and I realized
• 17:53
  like, you know, it doesn't change that.
• 17:54
  I like it. What's that bizarre thing of
• 17:56
  someone coming at you going? How dare you enjoy this.
• 18:00
  Yeah, I do the. Only response you should have is
• 18:03
  while I'm winning at life because I am enjoying it.
• 18:05
  I'm enjoying it. I'm at you know and some of the
• 18:07
  stuff that you watch, I might think it's terrible, but I've
• 18:09
  been enjoying it When I watch it, it's Doctor Who.
• 18:11
  Why it's it's no bad. Doctor Who is sometimes better
• 18:15
  than good. Doctor Who creature from the pit
• 18:19
  that me and Jeff covered that season.
• 18:20
  That was our number one. That was our number one story.
• 18:24
  I love that one. I do too.
• 18:26
  It's even with some of the anti-Semitism stuff in it, it's
• 18:29
  so it's so over the top and that Baker's just leaning into this.
• 18:34
  There's a cock and balls in front of me.
• 18:36
  He's. Diana Riggs villainous Turn in
• 18:38
  this. You know it's the most over the
• 18:40
  top female villain we've had since Lady of Astro.
• 18:43
  Yeah, it is. But you never it.
• 18:45
  It doesn't feel over the top, does it?
• 18:47
  I mean, it's feels like the perfect choice every time.
• 18:50
  She oh, she's she's so good. And I can't literally just spend
• 18:53
  the next hour saying how wonderful she is, but let's
• 18:57
  press play on the thing, because I know.
• 18:59
  We're going to have plenty to say.
• 19:01
  Do you want to count as in yeah, hold on, what are you?
• 19:03
  I'm on the DVD so and I've got the pit play on the Crimson Hard
• 19:08
  in the episode selection or will that work or how you watching it
• 19:12
  so? I'm watching it on the iPlayer
• 19:14
  and I've got it paused on the 1st frame.
• 19:16
  All right. So hold on.
• 19:18
  It's a fellow walking up the street.
• 19:22
  All right, I'm paused on that, too.
• 19:24
  So 123 and. You're still the only guest that
• 19:32
  that counts in that direction. Everybody else counts down.
• 19:38
  Really done for being unique? Well, sorry.
• 19:41
  It's, you know, it's a I'm an astronaut nerd.
• 19:44
  You think I'd be counting backwards?
• 19:48
  I do like this. I like the title cards.
• 19:49
  What do you think about the title cards?
• 19:51
  Because people complain to Jody. Why are they telling us where
• 19:54
  they're at? Oh no, I don't mind that,
• 19:57
  though. I like it.
• 19:58
  In a lot of those Jodi stories, we're all over the bloody place.
• 20:00
  I'll need the direction. Yeah, and I kind of liked that
• 20:04
  this is a period piece and we jump.
• 20:06
  Oh, here she is. We've come back to your husband.
• 20:09
  A tragedy, your late husband. My husband's quite well.
• 20:16
  Look at that glowing rigged door behind her there, OK?
• 20:18
  There's got to be something sinister going on there.
• 20:20
  Oh yeah, yeah. And then the screen, and she
• 20:23
  almost smiles when she hears a scream.
• 20:27
  I'm so sorry for your loss. Actually, you are right, she is
• 20:31
  almost playing it straight, isn't she?
• 20:33
  Oh yeah. It is a oh, this.
• 20:36
  Do you know what? Even this mortician, He's
• 20:40
  creepy, isn't he? It's all the the accents I get
• 20:44
  that I these are pretty thick and I like that they're leaning
• 20:48
  into it. Do you think he picked Yorkshire
• 20:50
  because Matt Smith from Yorkshire?
• 20:54
  Maybe because he does a really bad.
• 20:58
  It's so refreshing because we are going in Lassa Moffett and
• 21:01
  then Jody, we're going into unrepresented parts of England.
• 21:04
  Oh, I think it's great. You know, it's it's like in
• 21:08
  America, everything's LA or New York or Chicago.
• 21:10
  And it's like, well, this is giant country and people do.
• 21:15
  And I hate it when we get fake Southern accents.
• 21:17
  I live in the South and I don't have a Southern accent, but I
• 21:20
  hear some and I go, that ain't a Southern accent.
• 21:22
  Where are you? Where is that person from?
• 21:25
  But I do like all these. I OK, I want to ask you, are you
• 21:28
  a fan of the pad in Oscar gang? No, I have now.
• 21:31
  I wasn't at the time. I really didn't like it at all
• 21:34
  at the time. I'll tell you for why it's I I
• 21:36
  do obviously like gay representation in television.
• 21:39
  I don't think there's enough of it and I don't object to it at
• 21:42
  all being inducted. But man, oh man, the amount of
• 21:44
  time, as Jenny said, you know. I'm your wife and they were
• 21:47
  banging on about the fact that they were married.
• 21:49
  I'm like, I'm in a relationship and I don't go on about it this
• 21:52
  much, you know, you know, around people.
• 21:54
  However, I have since, upon rewatching a lot of this stuff,
• 21:59
  it's a really fun, colourful trio.
• 22:01
  It actually does get stories going, like they get this story
• 22:06
  going because they're investigating and I think
• 22:08
  they're all really well acted as well.
• 22:10
  So yes. And they like each other.
• 22:11
  You can tell that they're they're because I like the
• 22:13
  Patanastra Big Finish for the most part.
• 22:17
  I mean, any any of those sets will have a good one, a bad one
• 22:20
  and a mediocre one. But they're they're good actors
• 22:22
  together. Yeah.
• 22:24
  And what I like about this one, it's Jenny centric, yes.
• 22:28
  Yeah, I love that. Beautiful.
• 22:31
  Fun Excuse me, can we talk about these titles please 'cause
• 22:33
  they're terrible, Very busy. They are busy.
• 22:36
  I was when I first popped this in a couple days ago to watch it
• 22:39
  and went, oh, I remember these, I don't like them.
• 22:42
  I want to have tequila fuelled weekend, you know, and I brought
• 22:46
  up everything I'd eaten for about 3 days and it looked a
• 22:49
  little bit like this title sequence sort of yeah I you
• 22:52
  know, I there are some really bad title sequences and kinda
• 22:58
  and as. Well, yeah, I, you know, I think
• 23:02
  the one I really the one I like the best and I don't, is the
• 23:06
  Capaldi 1. What the the all the clocks?
• 23:11
  Yeah, yeah. I kind of like that one.
• 23:13
  I can't handle the music though. It's like a whining in my ear.
• 23:16
  Yeah, that no, no, no. The the the Rock and rolling
• 23:19
  sometimes of the theme. Isn't it right?
• 23:21
  Because we all come to this so differently, don't we?
• 23:24
  The things we like and we don't like, Oh yeah, it's.
• 23:27
  And it's every everybody has a different set of aesthetics and
• 23:29
  you know, I'm a, you know, I'm a rock'n'roll guy, so I like
• 23:34
  rock'n'roll normally. But when I heard it as a added
• 23:36
  all the guitar, I didn't doctor anything.
• 23:38
  I was like, can you stop that? You like Capaldi on that tank,
• 23:43
  then rocking away? No, no, no, not really.
• 23:50
  There were some. There were some moments in that.
• 23:54
  There were some moments in Capaldi's era.
• 23:57
  As much as I love him and there are good ones, I think his first
• 24:02
  season is just all over the place and bad.
• 24:05
  It's my least favorite Doctor Who of modern Who.
• 24:08
  Is it really? Really.
• 24:10
  It has it just it's all over the place.
• 24:12
  Danny and Clara have no chemistry and that's that's on
• 24:16
  the producers Kill the Moon is my just.
• 24:23
  It plucks my nerve. I talked to my brother about it
• 24:25
  and he goes 50 years of watching Doctor Who and the moon is in
• 24:29
  eggs when your suspension of disbelief ends.
• 24:33
  You're like the only one. All right, I'll have a lot of
• 24:37
  issues with that. And then I've had people on the
• 24:39
  site. You know why It's fun.
• 24:40
  Like, just go, Yeah. You know, I, I, we when we
• 24:42
  finally covered it on my show, it's like, OK, they're bits I
• 24:46
  like. And I don't mind Clara.
• 24:51
  I think Claire is better with Capaldi than she is with Matt.
• 24:54
  I do. I agree.
• 24:55
  I. Just feel like there's a bit of
• 24:57
  weird sexual tension between Matt Smith and Jenna Coleman.
• 25:02
  You don't. You know it doesn't work.
• 25:04
  I agree. I don't.
• 25:05
  Think it's a bit icky. It's a bit icky.
• 25:08
  He's River, I get that and that works.
• 25:11
  I like that he is a bit more asexual as a Doctor, you know?
• 25:18
  But oh, I love she's up here singing hymns and Jenny's like,
• 25:23
  what's with these religious freaks?
• 25:26
  The London girl up north with the your country, it's north.
• 25:30
  We look South and where I live. And at the deeper S you go,
• 25:33
  you're like, Oh my God. But do you know what they're
• 25:37
  doing here? They're absolutely proving how
• 25:40
  they spun this off into a show of its own.
• 25:43
  I think it might have had legs. What Pat and Ostracan?
• 25:46
  Yeah, I think it would have worked.
• 25:47
  I think it one the BBC dust period, like no one else.
• 25:52
  I mean, and they've got warehouses full of this stuff,
• 25:55
  man. And you got old hounds that you
• 25:57
  can go film in. You know, we don't, you know
• 25:59
  some of the art of recycling. And the glass?
• 26:04
  I would have rather they done 10 episodes of Pat and Oster just
• 26:07
  to see what they would have done with it.
• 26:09
  I I just don't understand why. Why Moffett?
• 26:12
  And then even Shibno was just. I mean, the one thing I'm
• 26:17
  looking forward to Davies is coming back is we're gonna get
• 26:19
  merch. Yeah, we're gonna get spin offs.
• 26:22
  We're gonna get an engaged showrunner.
• 26:25
  He is. But by all accounts, like
• 26:28
  Chippers has said he wanted to do spin offs and he wanted to do
• 26:31
  more merch. There just wasn't any money for
• 26:33
  it. They they wouldn't give him the
• 26:34
  money for it. Yeah, that that.
• 26:36
  We're screaming poverty. We're the BBC.
• 26:38
  It's like you guys sell so much crap, I don't wanna hear it.
• 26:40
  And then Bad Wolf comes in with, you know, with their massive
• 26:43
  thumbs and their BBC are like, yeah, go on, go ahead.
• 26:46
  Well, I think I was. I think it's not a bad idea.
• 26:50
  I think having Disney beer delivery system everywhere else
• 26:53
  in the world but the UK is a genius idea.
• 26:56
  SO1 Streaming service Me and my wife won't turn off.
• 26:59
  Oh Oh my God, this fellow that keeps fainting every time he
• 27:02
  sees going on. I love this guy.
• 27:05
  I do too. I do.
• 27:06
  I want to know why didn't he pass out?
• 27:09
  You could have told she was a lizard to the veil.
• 27:11
  Dude I love. Jenny Jenny in behind the scenes
• 27:18
  is a really clever act because as there's suddenly there states
• 27:21
  because she's in danger. Oh yeah, and and that I that's
• 27:25
  what I like about Jenny being because Jenny gets kind of
• 27:27
  shunted to the back. She's always complaining about
• 27:30
  you don't treat me right, I'm your wife, blah blah blah.
• 27:33
  They give all the funny lines to Dan Starkey and the good comedic
• 27:37
  moments when he hits Claire in the face with the.
• 27:39
  Newspaper. I love that baby.
• 27:42
  I can watch that over and over again.
• 27:44
  But Jenny is so good in this. It's because we're How far in
• 27:48
  Are we? And it's all about the Pattern
• 27:51
  and Oscar gang. And then it's going to be all
• 27:53
  about Jenny and then Matt Smith comes in about a what a third of
• 27:58
  the way in. And a lot of it's not even been,
• 28:00
  like, too madly grotesque yet, is it?
• 28:03
  There's just a big mystery. These people are going to work
• 28:05
  here and they're going missing, but all of a sudden, isn't it?
• 28:08
  We go into that empty room with the the factory machinery noises
• 28:13
  pumping out, but no itinerary. And that's when you go, Oh my
• 28:16
  God, what is going on here? Yeah, we have to.
• 28:19
  We see it with Jenny. I, you know what I mean?
• 28:22
  I did sometimes in TVI. Don't want to see it from the
• 28:25
  villain side. You know, I want to see it from
• 28:29
  I want to have discovery. I want to have my eyes and this.
• 28:32
  And in this episode it's Jenny. And when I was doing my
• 28:35
  homework, I didn't realize this is the only paternoster episode
• 28:39
  not written by Moffett. Every other time they appear
• 28:44
  written by him. Did you read the target book of
• 28:47
  this? No, I didn't get.
• 28:49
  Didn't I get that one? I haven't gotten them all
• 28:51
  because I've had, you know, is it any good?
• 28:54
  I read. The only part from the list.
• 28:57
  I've read a couple of those and I do think they are great, sort
• 29:00
  of padding out and adding detail and depth and stuff.
• 29:03
  So I bet he. I bet he went to town on this.
• 29:06
  Oh yeah, she's so good. I like the woman Swoon.
• 29:12
  No. Here where she goes in and you
• 29:14
  suddenly realize shit, she's in a lot of trouble.
• 29:17
  Nothing is what it appears to be here.
• 29:20
  Oh yeah, Oh yeah. Those big the, the big speakers
• 29:24
  that just look like the Trolla speakers.
• 29:26
  They look the tech is right and just that's the whole set.
• 29:33
  Yeah, like she she's looking in this.
• 29:35
  There's a great the great shot of her entering and the cat.
• 29:37
  It's on the camera and you see how empty the room is.
• 29:44
  Yeah, can I ask you a plot related question then?
• 29:48
  Please. Because I I don't think you're
• 29:49
  really supposed to think about the plot too much.
• 29:51
  Just look at all the grisly images and laugh at the right
• 29:53
  moments and then just enjoy the atmosphere of it.
• 29:56
  But so people are being dunked in this red primordial goo.
• 30:01
  Yeah, and that's The Crimson Horror.
• 30:05
  Why? Oh, because people that survive
• 30:12
  that don't turn red are quite in suspended animation for after
• 30:16
  they because some people are have an immunity to it and the
• 30:21
  others die. So she's picking, she's picking
• 30:26
  the perfect people. Remember, she goes, I want only
• 30:29
  the most perfect. So anybody who can survive the
• 30:31
  Crimson Horror she keeps and puts them under glass like her.
• 30:34
  She didn't. She wasn't.
• 30:36
  She didn't kill her. Why?
• 30:40
  I don't know. I mean, I really don't know.
• 30:43
  I mean, that's the explanation they kind of give you.
• 30:46
  But why did you one? Because it's a Doctor Who
• 30:49
  monster. They don't need to explain it.
• 30:51
  There's this evolved by this thing used to be a microbe in
• 30:54
  millions of years ago, and now it it's a Muppet.
• 31:00
  He is a Muppet as well. The Muppet attached to the teat
• 31:03
  of Diana rings. I mean, I don't care because you
• 31:06
  know what? I didn't even know it's
• 31:08
  commentary recently. Yeah.
• 31:09
  And we decided none of the plot makes liquor sense.
• 31:12
  But the whole thing? Oh no, no.
• 31:13
  Oh, entertaining. Who gives a shit?
• 31:16
  I know. Like what?
• 31:17
  OK, why are you testing Jamie with the big mute black dude?
• 31:22
  How do you send out this human factor as steam like?
• 31:27
  But it's the same with this, isn't it?
• 31:28
  Like, who cares? Just enjoy it, you know.
• 31:31
  Oh my God, I love the scene when they're eating.
• 31:33
  She is such a horrible piece of. Person awful to her daughter,
• 31:38
  isn't she? And Oh my back.
• 31:39
  I think that's done really well. That sort of toxic relationship,
• 31:42
  the pair of the mat. I want to know how a real mother
• 31:45
  and daughter who love each other.
• 31:47
  Play this. I think it's just because
• 31:50
  they're both such good actors, because this is how do you, how
• 31:55
  do you take someone who is classically trained, has done
• 32:00
  Shakespeare big films, All this stuff had ups and downs in her
• 32:04
  career. You know, how do you get her to
• 32:09
  do this? And she treats it like like a
• 32:11
  great, great actor. You treat it like any other job.
• 32:15
  I go there, I give an honest performance.
• 32:18
  I make choices and I commit. And she is.
• 32:25
  She. And I know by looking at her
• 32:27
  that she knows when she's being funny.
• 32:30
  She knows when she's being scary.
• 32:32
  She knows when she's just being a horrible person.
• 32:35
  But she's consistent. You know what I mean?
• 32:38
  The performance is strong and steady and to the point.
• 32:41
  She doesn't go all over the place, except that she's got a
• 32:44
  great punch line. Essentially, Ross is a bit of a
• 32:47
  femra. She doesn't have to be as good
• 32:49
  as she is here. I mean, look at what's his name
• 32:51
  from Power of Three. What's the fact?
• 32:53
  Steven Berkoff. Let me basically walked off the
• 32:55
  set, didn't he, And said oh I'm I'm not doing this, this
• 32:58
  rubbish. She could have been that
• 33:00
  arrogant here and just sort of phoned it in and had a reason to
• 33:03
  because he doesn't have a reason to be that arrogant.
• 33:05
  That was just a twat, yeah. But you know, no, because she'd
• 33:08
  won. I think there's a lot of
• 33:10
  reasons. And I talked, I've talked about
• 33:12
  this on my podcast is these people, you know?
• 33:16
  It's not. This is a collaborative art
• 33:19
  form? Jadis asked Rachel Sterling
• 33:21
  while they were working together.
• 33:22
  Because do you think your mom would do a Doctor Who if I wrote
• 33:25
  it for you? And she's like, Oh yeah, because
• 33:27
  they're friends. Hey, I've written you this part.
• 33:30
  It's in Doctor Who and you know Diana Riggs is a bridge.
• 33:34
  Oh, Doctor Who? Yeah, I'm going to do it.
• 33:37
  It's like someone over here, if you ask them if they wanted to
• 33:39
  do Star Trek, an American actor is going to go I don't want to
• 33:42
  do it. I want you to.
• 33:43
  Be kid probably said. How's it taking you this long to
• 33:46
  ask me? Because I, you know, do you
• 33:48
  think they're afraid to ask big stars, maybe.
• 33:51
  Yeah. I mean, look, I don't.
• 33:52
  But see what friends will do is look, Kate Winslet is doing Big
• 33:55
  Finish. That was like going that man.
• 33:58
  What do you? Have What do you have over?
• 34:01
  Her. What the fuck?
• 34:03
  I know. It's like, what does he know
• 34:05
  about you? Yeah.
• 34:06
  Did you go some bar and do something really bad with him
• 34:09
  when you were younger? No, I just think they want to
• 34:11
  have fun with these. And I think it is and I think it
• 34:13
  is. They're actors.
• 34:14
  They they they want to do everything.
• 34:16
  And I think she is so good in this.
• 34:18
  And is it Kate? How does Jenny Caitlin.
• 34:23
  Yeah, is it Kate? Kate Stewart.
• 34:24
  Is it Stewart? Yeah, yeah, she is so good in
• 34:27
  this. She's I'm not sure about the
• 34:31
  fella she's saddled with in this scene with Sorry I'm not going
• 34:34
  to be made about that OK I I love his energy I think 11th he
• 34:39
  is he from the minute he starts he's made a choice he's 26 years
• 34:43
  old hadn't had a big gig and he made a choice that he it's kind
• 34:48
  of like what I what what gets me is because I complained about
• 34:51
  Tom Baker being all over the place being out of control.
• 34:56
  Especially when you get to season 16 and 17.
• 35:00
  Someone needs to rein him in and I think John Nathan Turner and
• 35:04
  Christopher Bidney do, because I think that his final season's
• 35:07
  magical, but Matt Smith does all the same things where he's over
• 35:11
  the top, he's fast, he's weird and I love it on him.
• 35:17
  I I think he's amazing in five. I think 6.
• 35:23
  The plot just takes over and the characters get lost and all of
• 35:26
  them are dead. All of them.
• 35:28
  The regulars are not the moment. He is.
• 35:31
  He has some good moments because he's a good actor, but he's kind
• 35:35
  of reduced to a series of quirks a lot of the time.
• 35:38
  And I'm just like, what happened to that?
• 35:40
  Fabulous, Eccentric. That was in season five.
• 35:43
  That kid who was the old man in the tweed jacket with the weight
• 35:47
  of the universe on his shoulders, but sort of throwing
• 35:50
  it off and and absolutely loving it.
• 35:52
  I don't think he's a terrible actor by any stretch of the
• 35:55
  imagination. Oh no.
• 35:56
  I mean, and I get it. I think I don't.
• 35:59
  As much as I love watching him, I can't disagree with you that
• 36:02
  there are problems in this year because it we were talking
• 36:06
  before about, you know, the consistency of Davies, 'cause he
• 36:09
  was a control freak. Moffitt's not, as it doesn't
• 36:13
  contain other people or the writers.
• 36:16
  It's all over, I think as much as I like Jenna Coleman and
• 36:20
  there are parts of Clara I like, I think she is better served
• 36:25
  with Peter Capaldi. They have a better chemistry and
• 36:31
  I just, I get what you're saying and I think there's some episode
• 36:33
  stories he's not as good in. I need to speak to you about
• 36:37
  this kiss that he just gave her unnecessary, and I'm glad she
• 36:41
  hit him. She should have punched him.
• 36:42
  She should have really punched him out.
• 36:45
  Yeah 'cause, but that's the thing in modern Who you got to
• 36:48
  have him kiss? Stop it.
• 36:50
  You don't have to have I. Prefer it when it's a consensual
• 36:53
  kiss, you know? Yeah, it's, you know it.
• 36:55
  That doesn't hold up. I watched it.
• 36:57
  And. But she hits him.
• 36:59
  So he wrote into it that it was, you know?
• 37:02
  Oh bro. This.
• 37:04
  This. Method of using this jukebox
• 37:07
  music and these sort of quirky old fashioned film tapes,
• 37:11
  exposition scenes of showing how the Doctor and Clara arrived.
• 37:15
  This is so visually invented. I remember watching this and
• 37:17
  going, yeah, we could do that bit more of this.
• 37:20
  This is really great. Oh, I forgot all about it when I
• 37:22
  watched it. I went what the.
• 37:24
  Oh my God, this is amazing because especially goes, you
• 37:28
  know, I'll make it quick, you know, I don't know.
• 37:33
  It's a long story. I'll make it quick and then it's
• 37:36
  just you get to see the whole what would have taken 30 minutes
• 37:39
  of this episode? Of the episode.
• 37:41
  Yeah, in 3 minutes on the sepia tone.
• 37:45
  I like, you know. And I like the the at the end of
• 37:49
  each scene you get the photographs, snapshots, Oh yeah.
• 37:53
  It's really nice. Oh, I love the line about the
• 37:55
  Gabi. That was a Gabi Australian.
• 37:58
  And then he goes Braveheart, yeah.
• 38:00
  Well, now we've seen her back, haven't we?
• 38:02
  Oh, and then the the news We're getting mailed back.
• 38:06
  Yes. But I'll tell you what the
• 38:09
  economy of the writing in this how quickly he tells the story,
• 38:14
  I think, yeah, he does. I think he times himself.
• 38:18
  I think he's one of those writers.
• 38:19
  Probably got a stopwatch when he's reading it aloud and he's
• 38:22
  going, how much time do I've got to fill?
• 38:24
  And you guys, your TV can be different lengths.
• 38:31
  When we had commercial TV until recently, you for every hour you
• 38:35
  only got 42 minutes. It's down to 38 minutes.
• 38:42
  I'm a big Supernatural fan. They end up being about 38
• 38:44
  minutes of of actual plot. And that's setting it up, having
• 38:49
  some fun with the idea, and then doing a conclusion as well.
• 38:52
  I mean, that's Oh yeah, I do. I do love all this stuff.
• 38:56
  And you know, it's and you get to see who the guy at the
• 39:00
  beginning is. You know, you get to see who the
• 39:02
  reporter is. I think visually, we've never
• 39:05
  seen anything like this in Doctor Who before.
• 39:07
  No? And what, 55 odd years later?
• 39:10
  No, not 50 years in. That's impressive.
• 39:13
  Yeah. And I don't know why they never
• 39:14
  kind of did it again. I didn't.
• 39:17
  Is this Mendelsohn's the director of this 10?
• 39:21
  Is it Douglas McKinnon? I can't remember.
• 39:24
  I can't remember. I'll have a look while we're
• 39:26
  talking. All right.
• 39:27
  Yeah, I was setting the volume on my TV.
• 39:29
  Turned out on its own. But so this is how good I think
• 39:34
  Sleep. The more could have been if he'd
• 39:37
  had more fun with the premise of like the found footage thing
• 39:40
  then you that it could have been really visually inventing.
• 39:42
  Yeah, that's see, that's it. I'm not a big fan of the The
• 39:45
  Blair Witch thing because most people do it badly.
• 39:48
  Yeah. I've seen too many found found
• 39:52
  footage horror movies set in insane asylums.
• 39:55
  You know, I absolutely agree with you.
• 39:57
  It's it's it's done 99% of the time.
• 40:00
  It's done badly. Do it when you need to do it.
• 40:02
  This is directed by Soul Met Met Sign, Met scene.
• 40:06
  Met Scene OK And I can't remember what else he's done,
• 40:09
  'cause I don't really think I want to say that the really good
• 40:14
  directors kind of came later like Rachel Tolali.
• 40:18
  Amazing. I saw her, I I got to see her
• 40:22
  talk about the Capaldi hell bent and how she and I'm sitting
• 40:32
  there with Victoria and they go, well, I took this off from
• 40:34
  Sergio Galloni's The Good Bad and the Ugly and Victoria went
• 40:38
  how did you not catch that? And I said I feel like an idiot,
• 40:40
  cause how did I not catch that she stole from Leoni?
• 40:44
  Oh look, listen to this. You said you weren't sure which
• 40:46
  episodes he directed. I think these are all very well
• 40:49
  directed episodes he did on a spaceship.
• 40:52
  I loved that one. A town called Mercy the Snowman.
• 40:56
  I love this, this and Name of the Doctor.
• 41:02
  They're all pretty well directed episodes.
• 41:03
  Pretty well directed, and I I think that town Called Mercy is
• 41:08
  a pretty bad western. Oh, I love that one.
• 41:11
  Right? Every time you do something, I'm
• 41:13
  like, I love. It is it because of Ben Browder?
• 41:17
  Come on, be honest. It doesn't hurt, you know.
• 41:21
  I'm a big Far Escape and Stargate fan, so I was happy
• 41:24
  that Ben Browder was in it. And he's from North Carolina.
• 41:27
  He's, he's he's from my wife's upstate, OK?
• 41:29
  The last couple of years, wasn't he?
• 41:31
  Oh yeah, him and the woman. Oh God.
• 41:34
  See Black. Whatever, Claudia.
• 41:37
  Black. Yeah.
• 41:37
  Claudia Black, they both came over.
• 41:40
  And replaced it. Took both of them and replaced
• 41:42
  Harry Dean Stanton. You know what's the shame here?
• 41:44
  And I don't think it's sabotages yet so, but it's a shame because
• 41:46
  now the doctor's involved, it's all about his investigation now,
• 41:50
  and it's all a kind of about him.
• 41:51
  And it's less about Jenny and it's less about the Patanoso
• 41:54
  gang. Yeah, and it should be more
• 41:56
  about Ada. This is where it should have
• 42:01
  transitioned because I like that Ada goes into the room and is
• 42:06
  having a conversation with him. But we don't know it's him until
• 42:10
  now, yeah. That he's the monster.
• 42:13
  Oh 'cause she's stupid, Isn't she?
• 42:15
  Is she's? Kept him his mom.
• 42:16
  Her mom doesn't know she's done that because he's he's the only
• 42:19
  one who survived, didn't go into suspended animation, and didn't
• 42:23
  die. Oh my God, he's talking to the
• 42:27
  horse and saying you'll have a summary execution and he pulls
• 42:32
  out a massive gun. Oh, I want to ask you something
• 42:36
  about the little kid is yours. Go on, go on.
• 42:40
  One, It's annoying of course, but is your really your mapping
• 42:45
  system called Tom Thomas Thomas? Now it's called TomTom.
• 42:49
  Tom-tom Yeah, you have Tom, Toms and cars.
• 42:53
  Why is it called? Is that a brand name?
• 42:55
  Yeah, it was cars versus catchy. I don't know.
• 42:58
  Oh my God, I didn't get the joke.
• 43:00
  But I got more of the Yorkshire jokes, and there's one at the
• 43:04
  very end, and I think you're going to be surprised that I, as
• 43:06
  an American, get it, OK? OK, 'cause I went down a rabbit
• 43:11
  hole during the pandemic of 70s British camp comics.
• 43:17
  Oh, wow. OK, I worked for a gay theater
• 43:20
  company for 25 years. I can.
• 43:21
  I can hold my own in camp and it was quite a few in the 70s.
• 43:25
  You. Know.
• 43:26
  Oh, no, no. Oh my.
• 43:27
  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's actually someone's cast
• 43:30
  trays. I went wait a minute, is that on
• 43:32
  purpose? I don't know.
• 43:34
  Do you know what I'm talking about?
• 43:36
  I don't know. I can't wait till you tell me.
• 43:37
  Oh, OK. I'm sure Gate is new because
• 43:41
  he's been watching TV and paying attention to all this.
• 43:43
  Stuff. Oh yeah, because these aren't
• 43:44
  guys, are all TV guys. That's what I like about Davies.
• 43:46
  And I like about Moffett and I like about Gatus.
• 43:49
  Is there TV or guys? Yeah.
• 43:52
  Does that make sense that there is a different love affair with
• 43:55
  television? And I would put Davies on the
• 44:00
  level of Potter. Is it Potter?
• 44:02
  Dennis Potter. Yeah, Dennis Potter, who's a
• 44:04
  genius. And I would put them on the same
• 44:06
  level as Sterling Sterling, Rod Sterling, the creator of
• 44:12
  Twilight Zone, who also wrote some very famous dramas.
• 44:15
  Do you know Paddy Chayefsky? Do you know that name?
• 44:17
  No, he's. Not he wrote a lot of TV in the
• 44:20
  50s. He also wrote some screenplays.
• 44:23
  He did Altered States, the science fiction movie.
• 44:25
  But he was like when TV was still a play.
• 44:29
  And he is considered one of the great TV writers and a guy named
• 44:33
  Richard Matheson who wrote science fiction novels.
• 44:36
  It did I Am Legend. That's his most famous novel.
• 44:38
  But they all wrote TV and they're all of these guys that
• 44:42
  are icons. And I think Davies is is equal
• 44:45
  to Potter. Could you know why anybody and
• 44:48
  and and Davies are so studied in TV?
• 44:52
  It's because they watched so much television.
• 44:54
  You know, they literally studied David, spent his chartered
• 44:58
  watching soap operas and things like that.
• 45:00
  And I'm just understanding the medium of television.
• 45:03
  Yeah, and I and I think they get it.
• 45:04
  There's something the one reason I'm a big Moffitt fan is I'm a
• 45:07
  big Aaron Sorkin fan and a big Whedon fan, other than the fact
• 45:10
  that he's a prick. But you know, there are a lot of
• 45:13
  bad people in this world who are just bad bosses.
• 45:16
  He's a horrible boss, but unfortunate thing is he's
• 45:19
  talented. He's talented.
• 45:21
  And you know, sometimes arrogance goes with it and I can
• 45:24
  get away with anything because I'm talented and they're not.
• 45:26
  Athletes. Get it?
• 45:27
  It's like you got to tell them no people.
• 45:28
  You got to learn that you know you don't let the hen house hens
• 45:31
  run the hen house. But look how old Jenny is here.
• 45:35
  Look in her lever, beating everyone up.
• 45:38
  People complained about that and I went.
• 45:40
  It's a love letter to Diana Riggs.
• 45:42
  Yeah, of course it is it. Is and she looks good in it.
• 45:46
  Absolutely. Rig wears that in a in Avengers
• 45:48
  episode. She's she's always in a cat.
• 45:51
  No. Is she in?
• 45:52
  Always in a cat suit? Kinda, yeah.
• 45:55
  She and kicking ass as well. Oh, my God.
• 45:58
  The one where she's in the Hellfire Club.
• 46:01
  Oh, my God. Big King.
• 46:03
  You know that one? Oh yeah, yeah.
• 46:04
  And they used they stole it in the X-Men comics and in the 80s.
• 46:10
  John Byrne was the artist and they wrote a plot where one of
• 46:14
  the characters becomes Phoenix Whatever the Terrible in the
• 46:17
  movies. But she's in that suit and it is
• 46:20
  drawn one. They draw the villain to look
• 46:24
  like the villain in that Avengers, Peter Wingard, and
• 46:27
  they the actor Peter Wingard, and they even named the
• 46:29
  character Peter Wingard. It's their love letter to that
• 46:32
  episode. You was going to make a a link
• 46:34
  then, between Aaron Sorkin and Steven Moffett and I.
• 46:37
  It's a rhythm. It's a there's a meter, Yeah,
• 46:39
  yeah, yeah, there is a meter. There is.
• 46:42
  It's almost musical. Sorkin is you're going to say
• 46:45
  every word exactly the way I said because it's a rhythm.
• 46:47
  Yeah. Bump, bump, bump.
• 46:49
  Bump. Bump.
• 46:49
  Bump. Bump.
• 46:50
  Bump. Bump.
• 46:51
  It's and it's flawless. It's no coincidence in all those
• 46:54
  W wings. They're all kind of on the move,
• 46:55
  are they? Like they're walking from room
• 46:58
  to room. It's like they're dancing.
• 47:00
  It's like they're dancing. I'm giving you a rhythm, and
• 47:02
  Moffett's talk has that pace as well, doesn't it?
• 47:05
  When he's when he's nailing it and he needs to give somebody a
• 47:10
  a special speech it's almost you can count it in four, four time
• 47:15
  and that's why I think. Even in a bad Moffat episode
• 47:19
  when the Doctor speechifies, I think his speeches are better
• 47:22
  than some most. I think the one in Doctor
• 47:27
  Dances, Everybody Lives, Yeah. And I think in Pandorica opens
• 47:35
  whereas with with Gates, I don't think he he has that sort of
• 47:39
  rhythm about his daughter. No, no, look it's frequently
• 47:42
  very good. But what you said at the
• 47:43
  beginning of the episode, what he understands is Doctor Who.
• 47:47
  He does, and he knows that we're going to lap this stuff up.
• 47:51
  Victoriana, you know, grotesque horror.
• 47:57
  That's his strength. That's.
• 47:58
  His Well, why do you mean? We talked about earlier that I
• 48:00
  think Empress of Mars is one of my favourites of his.
• 48:04
  It's set in Victorian times when the best Tom bakers during the
• 48:08
  Hinchcliffe Homs era, when they're set in Victorian times
• 48:11
  or Edward times early 19th, early 20th century.
• 48:14
  Throw in the Ice Warriors and Alpha Centauri, you know.
• 48:17
  Oh yeah, yeah. And and and tie it all up in a
• 48:20
  bow and make it fun. Yeah, because this is Horror
• 48:24
  Story, but it's not too horrific.
• 48:26
  No, this is brilliant fun to watch.
• 48:28
  Well, it's full of gags, isn't it?
• 48:30
  Oh yeah, yeah. He knows when to put the joke
• 48:32
  in. And you know what?
• 48:35
  I've turned a bit of a corner with the last sort of 3rd of
• 48:37
  this, because I used to think the whole thing about the
• 48:40
  bloody, you know, the rocket and all that.
• 48:41
  It's just absurd. And where this story starts and
• 48:45
  where it ends are two very different places.
• 48:48
  But now I'm just like, no, he's doing Doctor Who, of course, is
• 48:51
  a bloody space. There's all this stuff hidden
• 48:53
  and you know, it's like, well, I watched this one.
• 48:56
  Oh, I when I did The Runaway Bride and when.
• 49:04
  Going to ask 10th Doctor, there's a secret base hidden
• 49:07
  under a London landmark and he goes, never happens you know so
• 49:12
  there's a rocket hidden in the tower.
• 49:15
  So I want to ask because this is one of these utopian country.
• 49:19
  Did you guys have the This is based on loosely on one we had
• 49:22
  one over here, the guy that owned Kellogg's in the early
• 49:27
  20th century in Battle Creek, MI, where everybody had to be
• 49:31
  celibate and eat cereal. Really.
• 49:34
  It's really weird dude. You need to Google it.
• 49:36
  It it actually, it was a Kellogg and it was all about celibacy
• 49:40
  and purity and eating grains and stuff, and it was all in Battle
• 49:44
  Creek, MI. In this workplace, you just have
• 49:46
  to be dunked in red goo and survival.
• 49:48
  You have to. It's a it's one.
• 49:49
  It's white supremacy. She wants perfection.
• 49:52
  She does, yeah. So and you know, she's dipping
• 49:55
  them. So if you don't survive this,
• 49:57
  this is really, you know, and look at her daughter, imperfect,
• 50:02
  but she's just so. Terrible to her, like when she
• 50:05
  tells her that she had had the, you know, she had kept the thing
• 50:08
  and she's just you're the you're the darkness.
• 50:11
  But she's sort of listened to the dogma, hasn't she, and
• 50:13
  started to believe that the doctor saying here is just it's
• 50:16
  stupid nonsense, don't listen. And it's actually really nice to
• 50:19
  have an element of tragedy within this sort of madly over
• 50:24
  the top story. Oh yeah.
• 50:25
  And then the moment where he asks her to to betray her
• 50:28
  mother, and she goes, I still can't do it, yeah.
• 50:31
  Because she's still my mother. It's like, wow.
• 50:34
  Well, until she realises her mum's going to betray her in the
• 50:37
  the ultimate way, and then she just goes out and stick, doesn't
• 50:40
  she Like? Oh Oh yeah.
• 50:43
  Oh, and when she kills Mr. Mr. Sweet.
• 50:47
  Do you know what? I I grew up in a house where my
• 50:51
  sister and my mother, it was very like this.
• 50:55
  It was a very toxic relationship, you know, and I'll
• 50:58
  tell you what, there was a few times where that stick came out.
• 51:01
  So when I was watching this, I was going, oh God, this is a bit
• 51:03
  too close to home. You know, I I know the situation
• 51:06
  is absurd, but the sort of the mother daughter toxicity that
• 51:12
  feels very real. You know, and I think he, he,
• 51:15
  he's telling them I'm writing this into it and then being
• 51:18
  such, you know? Great actors and I think Gaydis
• 51:22
  is a great actor. I think he's in.
• 51:24
  I would love to see him. I'd love to see him on stage.
• 51:26
  I've I've got to watch a video of him in The Madness of King
• 51:31
  George with Louise Jameson where Louis Jameson played male and
• 51:35
  female roles that they didn't. I mean, she's incredible as
• 51:37
  well, so. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 51:38
  But he played George and it was just, it's like really.
• 51:41
  And then and my wife was like, what else has he done?
• 51:44
  I said, well he's got a Olivier, which is better than a Tony for
• 51:48
  doing Corleones, which is. A bleak, horrible shake.
• 51:52
  I love Shakespeare. And that's one I'm like, why are
• 51:54
  we doing this one? It's awful bleak.
• 51:57
  Can you know, Can you tell me the three roles that Mark Gates
• 51:59
  has played in Doctor Who? Doctor Lazarus, the Viking that
• 52:05
  gets electrocuted. You got it.
• 52:07
  I wonder if you get that one. No.
• 52:09
  No, no. Oh, and the Brigadier's
• 52:12
  grandfather, Alistair, which I? OK, I want to ask you something.
• 52:16
  Your geek credentials, There's your badge.
• 52:18
  There you go. Yeah.
• 52:19
  I I he's I my, my Doctor Who here is a lot of ways, are
• 52:23
  Nicholas Briggs and Mark Davis, more so than anybody else.
• 52:26
  Because they're dorks. They're me, and they succeed.
• 52:30
  They got to do what they dreamed of doing just by being nerds.
• 52:37
  And they did it. They must pitch themselves
• 52:39
  everywhere they go. And then so I was explaining the
• 52:41
  history of Modern Who to my wife.
• 52:42
  It's like these guys were all in one social circle.
• 52:45
  These are friends. The guys in season.
• 52:48
  I said she goes, I really liked Davies's first season.
• 52:51
  She's that's the only season she's watching the time she
• 52:52
  goes, Why is it so good? And I said he rewrote
• 52:55
  everything. And everybody who wrote it had
• 52:57
  written Doctor Who in some other form and they were all personal
• 53:00
  friends. He was careful.
• 53:04
  I'm only gonna hire people I know understand the character.
• 53:07
  Even though I'm giving them a new version of it, they all do
• 53:12
  really good episodes, remember. I mean, Cornell and Dalek is a
• 53:16
  great episode. I think the other greatest one I
• 53:20
  think is is great is his fart. His fart, Monsters.
• 53:23
  Just what I refer to the Dickens story.
• 53:26
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
• 53:29
  That's that's probably one of the best Christmas that you
• 53:32
  know, 'cause I find the Christmas specials, I find the
• 53:35
  holiday specials kind of. Painful at times because it's
• 53:38
  either you've run out of ideas or you're killing the Doctor.
• 53:41
  What's so interesting about season one is obviously
• 53:45
  everything was fresh and new. Everything felt original then.
• 53:49
  We're in Season 7 now. They're struggling so well,
• 53:53
  they're struggling to find anything really fresh and new to
• 53:55
  say. But this does feel fresh and new
• 53:57
  to me, because I don't think we've had an episode quite like
• 54:00
  this before. No, I don't think they had
• 54:02
  really leaned into the into horror.
• 54:06
  Gothic horror. I think they do it a couple
• 54:09
  times in this. This Hydes is a 70s version,
• 54:11
  like a Hammer movie. I kind of figured it felt like a
• 54:14
  Hammer movie to me. And this is more like weird
• 54:17
  creature out in the woods in hives.
• 54:19
  Yeah, and then this one. These are very British horror.
• 54:23
  Oh God, here we go. She's she's just finding out the
• 54:26
  truth now. Oh my God, I love this bit.
• 54:29
  I love this bit perfidious hack. You are happy she goes well in
• 54:37
  terms of our acting. Oh no, no they're not.
• 54:41
  They're not phoning this in. They're taking courses, she's
• 54:46
  bugging, whacking her on the. Bike.
• 54:49
  Oh my God, I love this bit. Hang on.
• 54:52
  I got a Scrooge over. Yeah, I got a chair.
• 54:55
  I do love. I love Jenna Coleman.
• 54:58
  And I love Claire when Clever. This is a good Claire episode.
• 55:01
  They're not. People used to go.
• 55:02
  She's a plot device. Well.
• 55:05
  Every character in a television show is a plot device.
• 55:08
  Like I've I've got more issues with the character.
• 55:10
  I don't really ever have any issues with Jenna Coleman.
• 55:13
  I think she's it's annoying because I think she's probably
• 55:16
  the best actress in the new series to have played a
• 55:19
  companion. I just don't think the role that
• 55:21
  she was given. I don't think they were all over
• 55:25
  the place with her. It's on.
• 55:26
  It's on Moffett. It's on Moffett.
• 55:27
  Like you say, when she's at her best, it's incredible.
• 55:31
  I know you don't like Kill the Moon, but that scene at the end
• 55:34
  where she goes? She's fine.
• 55:35
  She she's fine. I have the problem with the
• 55:37
  moon's an egg. I'm just screw it.
• 55:39
  But oh, my brother had a roommate who'd never watched
• 55:43
  Doctor Who you'll like this joke.
• 55:45
  And they're watching it. And they did that a that
• 55:48
  original who lean against the wall as someone passes them in a
• 55:52
  corridor and he goes, so this is a universe with no peripheral
• 55:56
  vision. No, no.
• 55:59
  It's a frequent complaint. I'll make anything, you know.
• 56:03
  Look behind you. Oh.
• 56:05
  My God. You see, Mrs. Gilliflower, then
• 56:09
  she's like, oh, I don't know, you know, I would never do this
• 56:12
  to you. And it's just so she could get
• 56:14
  hold of her, put the gum to her head.
• 56:16
  Oh my God, she's smile. And look at these, these
• 56:20
  horrible Nazi followers of her. And she just tells him you oh,
• 56:24
  did you put the stuff in the thing?
• 56:27
  Well, you've gone slightly redeeming about her.
• 56:30
  The mom? Yeah, no, she says.
• 56:33
  You're you're going to go to heaven.
• 56:35
  Because you're not. You're going to die.
• 56:38
  She's all there. I'll tell you what's redeeming
• 56:41
  about her. Is that fabulous puppet on her
• 56:43
  breasts? Oh my God.
• 56:44
  She just she doesn't care. It's a great puppet.
• 56:47
  It is a great puppet. There's not enough puppets.
• 56:49
  You know, Ross is not fiction. No, no, no.
• 56:51
  I you know, I I like a practical monster.
• 56:55
  I think it works better. Did you ever see him with the
• 57:02
  Henson people, with nuts, with Browder, 'cause he started
• 57:05
  touching the puppets. Oh really?
• 57:07
  Especially the guy in the floaty thing.
• 57:09
  And he goes, I'm acting with that.
• 57:11
  I gotta be able to touch it. So if it's if I'm going to break
• 57:14
  it, yeah, would he? I'm going to break it.
• 57:16
  You make it better. He's I'm going to touch it, but
• 57:19
  the way they would animate Rigel, I mean, I absolutely
• 57:22
  believe that was a person and not.
• 57:24
  Oh no. And it a lot of it comes from
• 57:26
  that that Browder and the other actor says we have to have
• 57:29
  physical contact. If we have to stand away like
• 57:31
  he's a hand puppet, they're going to think he's a hand
• 57:34
  puppet. You have to allow us to
• 57:37
  interact. Just make him more durable.
• 57:40
  And I think it's right. And I think that's why this
• 57:42
  work. Look at it stroking him.
• 57:46
  She's going. The whole world is shaking his
• 57:48
  own Mr. Sweet as we speak. Oh my God.
• 57:51
  And she's going. The world will feel your kiss.
• 57:54
  It's like, now, now, come on, the world will feel your lethal
• 57:58
  kiss. Oh my God, she's been waiting
• 58:00
  our whole life for these dark, for these lines of dialogue.
• 58:04
  Oh yeah, She's eating this up. She's like, thank you, Mark.
• 58:07
  I get it, you know, because actors want to play.
• 58:09
  She's, you know, she's just a woman who's done that.
• 58:11
  Lady Macbeth, you know, that's got to be a hard evening.
• 58:15
  Well, I think, I think you're right.
• 58:16
  I think these prestige actors, man, when I get a chance to play
• 58:20
  something totally quirky. Yeah, because, you know, they
• 58:23
  could pigeonholed. It's like, you're a dramatic
• 58:24
  actress. It's like, yeah, but I'm going
• 58:26
  to be the bad guy. I rather have this little puppet
• 58:29
  with sucker teeth attached to. My horse you know and and actors
• 58:33
  are are have dirty mouths like truckers.
• 58:37
  And they sit around, they tell bawdy stories.
• 58:39
  They tell off colored jokes. It's like, you know, when you
• 58:42
  hear about people's bad behavior backstage.
• 58:45
  I was like going, I was doing theater in the 80s, man.
• 58:47
  There was a lot of bad behavior backstage that would not be
• 58:51
  acceptable. Now what about theater?
• 58:54
  Let's say I don't know why I feel really sorry for her as Mr.
• 58:57
  Sweet's like, well, I'm off and she's going sweet, come back.
• 59:03
  Oh, I love this. So when she calls her Ada, give
• 59:07
  me my child. Never good.
• 59:11
  Yeah, that's the that seals the deal, didn't it?
• 59:15
  She she don't forgive her and she's happy about it.
• 59:18
  Oh my God, we're seeing. Imagine her as the Master.
• 59:21
  Oh, it would be gold. I want another woman, Master.
• 59:26
  Oh, I'd have her and Gomez going up against each other as two
• 59:29
  separate masters. Oh my God, I I I think I prefer
• 59:34
  Michelle Gomez. I'm my fellow countrymen now in
• 59:40
  the audios. She is terrific in the audios.
• 59:44
  The ones where it's her, Gemma Weyland and Rufus Sewell.
• 59:49
  When is Rufus Sewell gonna play the mast?
• 59:51
  Play the Monk on TV, please. She's just like Bash Mr., Sweet
• 59:55
  to death. This is my favorite moment of
• 59:58
  Matt Smith in this whole episode Go.
• 1:00:00
  On. Where he's like on the other
• 1:00:02
  hand, but we don't get enough goop, you know, in Doctor Who.
• 1:00:08
  No. And it's, you know, and it's a
• 1:00:10
  very Red Dwarf. It look, it look like a monster
• 1:00:13
  on Red Dwarf. I like his little bowler hat and
• 1:00:18
  he looks so cute, yeah. I like that they have, you know?
• 1:00:21
  I like that he's changing clothes.
• 1:00:23
  It's his sort of trampy looking. It's sort of trampy tweed he had
• 1:00:26
  in series five. I thought he looked a bit too
• 1:00:28
  tailored in seven, but that I do too.
• 1:00:30
  Nice outfit he's wearing. That's a great doctor outfit
• 1:00:33
  though. I like that.
• 1:00:34
  That it changes. I've got really 10.
• 1:00:39
  It only had one suit. That thing had been honking.
• 1:00:42
  Come on, you know, hurt. We had a different suit every
• 1:00:44
  episode. Does he say now?
• 1:00:47
  He does. Doesn't he?
• 1:00:48
  He says. About Oh yeah, I need to sort
• 1:00:50
  out the mystery of Clara and this was one time where I was
• 1:00:53
  like, don't you don't need to add that into this.
• 1:00:56
  I know reminders of the arc, but and then there's this tag at the
• 1:01:00
  end setting. Up the next episode was this
• 1:01:02
  thing short? It's so out of place.
• 1:01:05
  This isn't the one that ends with Angie and Arcy, is it?
• 1:01:08
  Yes, it is. Oh no, that's been.
• 1:01:11
  Oh, it's so. Bad.
• 1:01:13
  It should have been the tag at the beginning of the next
• 1:01:15
  episode. Ross.
• 1:01:16
  OK, we're getting back in there. I've been looking for the
• 1:01:18
  history books, all right, And I've seen you all through time,
• 1:01:21
  and I know that you're a time traveller.
• 1:01:23
  How easy is it to find the Doctor?
• 1:01:26
  You better take me through time or I'm going to tell your mom
• 1:01:28
  and dad, All right? It's so.
• 1:01:31
  And I like the next. Episode.
• 1:01:34
  No, no, no, no. I like the gay.
• 1:01:36
  I like OK, I've just, he's just done the wiped his finger on the
• 1:01:41
  TARDIS and he says, how about the Muckaneer?
• 1:01:45
  It's Larry Grayson. It is.
• 1:01:49
  When he would touch his chair, he would run his finger.
• 1:01:51
  Goes oh the muck in here. That is deliberate.
• 1:01:54
  Absolutely. Delivery It's got to be.
• 1:01:56
  It's got to be and that the. American found it.
• 1:01:59
  I do love Larry Grayson. I watched him about camp
• 1:02:02
  comedians in the 70s, but he was a genius, I mean to.
• 1:02:06
  Be a big star and do what he did.
• 1:02:08
  The Generation game. I'd I'd know what it is, but I
• 1:02:10
  have no idea why people would watch it every weekend.
• 1:02:13
  Do you know what? I was just having so much fun
• 1:02:15
  with this episode and then this parakeet came up.
• 1:02:17
  So the beginning. Is so good.
• 1:02:21
  It's good that we don't. Have them they come.
• 1:02:23
  In It's all about the kind of Nostra gang, the mystery, the
• 1:02:27
  villain. Then you know just you know
• 1:02:33
  what. But it's not really detract from
• 1:02:35
  the main story though, does it? It's just a scene, I know, but
• 1:02:39
  it's so out. Of place it really.
• 1:02:41
  I forgot it was here. I kind of went.
• 1:02:43
  I thought this was the beginning of the next episode 'cause this
• 1:02:46
  is not A tag, this is a. This is a prelude.
• 1:02:51
  It's just very old, isn't it? But he did this a lot.
• 1:02:55
  Moffett did this a lot to. Kind of connect things, and I
• 1:02:58
  don't think you need to connect like this.
• 1:03:00
  Would not encourage me to watch the next episode.
• 1:03:04
  Yeah, there are other ways to get the.
• 1:03:05
  Kids into that. Story.
• 1:03:06
  And I think the kids need to be in that story.
• 1:03:09
  I don't have a problem with that.
• 1:03:11
  You know what would have encouraged me to be watch the
• 1:03:13
  next episode? If it was just this episode
• 1:03:15
  without the tag. And I go, wow, that was amazing.
• 1:03:17
  Let's see if it sounds good next week.
• 1:03:19
  Yeah, when I see, I like that. I like.
• 1:03:22
  I'm AI don't think the the the it's the greatest episode of
• 1:03:28
  Doctor Who but Warwick Davis is so good in it.
• 1:03:32
  Oh, he's very sweet. I mean, especially when he
• 1:03:34
  doesn't want to be the emperor, 'cause I don't.
• 1:03:36
  Want to be in charge? I'm not exaggerating when I say
• 1:03:40
  nightmare and Silver is where I almost considered stopping
• 1:03:42
  watching. Really that bad.
• 1:03:45
  Really. And I really dislike Journey to
• 1:03:47
  Standardize and Time with the Doctor.
• 1:03:49
  So this period was like, yeah, it was.
• 1:03:53
  It was the way you you talked about Series A earlier.
• 1:03:57
  That's yeah, see, the middle of series eight really gets.
• 1:04:01
  Me is the moon the forest? One?
• 1:04:05
  What's the what's the missing sister doing in a shrub?
• 1:04:08
  Oh, Forest of the night. Yeah, Forest the night.
• 1:04:10
  What the? You know, but that's actually.
• 1:04:12
  Danny has got some moments and when I rewatch it, when we
• 1:04:15
  covered it, me and Victoria covered it.
• 1:04:18
  Sam Anderson's a good actor. Danny's not a bad character.
• 1:04:23
  Him and Jenna Coleman. I didn't see any chemistry with
• 1:04:26
  them. But I do like.
• 1:04:29
  His interaction? With the Doctor and I think.
• 1:04:33
  I've heard people say they have a bit of trouble.
• 1:04:35
  With because the doctor's always been hanging out with soldiers.
• 1:04:37
  Why has he suddenly got a problem with it?
• 1:04:39
  Because the doctor's a little bit better.
• 1:04:40
  And it's this. It's jealousy that.
• 1:04:42
  It's more jealousy that that. She's my best friend.
• 1:04:45
  Why would she be with the PE teacher?
• 1:04:48
  Because he looks like Samuel Anson and you look like Peter
• 1:04:50
  Capaldi, that's why. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:04:53
  But I do like when he goes yes or.
• 1:04:55
  No, Sir. You're a Lord of time.
• 1:04:57
  Oh. See, I was, you know, I'm
• 1:04:59
  military brat and my dad was an officer, but he had started as a
• 1:05:02
  private and retired as a general, so you know.
• 1:05:07
  We always had enlisted men. Around the house, he liked
• 1:05:09
  sorry. He preferred what in the Marine
• 1:05:11
  Corps, top sergeants called a gunny.
• 1:05:13
  He liked gunnies more than he liked officers because he was
• 1:05:16
  blue collar. My dad was really just, you
• 1:05:18
  know, he grew up poor on the streets of Brooklyn during the
• 1:05:20
  Depression. So, but, so I kind of got that.
• 1:05:24
  And I like to see a soldier tell someone.
• 1:05:26
  It's like, you know, I did more than killing that speech with
• 1:05:29
  her. Why?
• 1:05:29
  Why don't you ask Maddie Wells? I dug, you know, so I kind of
• 1:05:33
  like that. But you know, but see, that
• 1:05:35
  season's all over. I want to ask you something
• 1:05:37
  because Jeff hates Listen. Hates it.
• 1:05:42
  What do you take of it? I really like it.
• 1:05:44
  I. Think there's I really like it
• 1:05:45
  as well. I I, I I like the ambiguity of
• 1:05:48
  it. I, I I think people missed the
• 1:05:50
  point when they say they want to know what that creature was
• 1:05:53
  banging on that and they want to know what that thing was on the
• 1:05:56
  bed. Now the whole point is you'll
• 1:05:57
  never don't know. And that's what's scary.
• 1:06:01
  I I think it's some people hate it because it.
• 1:06:03
  Why is she in that barn on Gallifrey and touching it?
• 1:06:06
  I've got a few issues with that, but you know, you know well that
• 1:06:09
  I think. Where Davies had no Gallifrey,
• 1:06:12
  Moffett just leaned into it. I'm more of the thing of it's
• 1:06:16
  there, and he's running from it. Why don't we do that?
• 1:06:19
  You bring up a plot. Stop making everything the end
• 1:06:23
  of the unit. That my prop biggest problem
• 1:06:24
  with Modern Who. And to be honest, I don't watch
• 1:06:26
  a lot of Modern Who. I have not since the pandemic.
• 1:06:31
  I only watch it when there's new ones.
• 1:06:33
  Or I'm covering it for your show.
• 1:06:35
  For this show or my show. I don't seek out Modern Who.
• 1:06:40
  I think part of it is when it came back, every time the new
• 1:06:43
  season would come, I'd watch it all over.
• 1:06:45
  I'd get to it getting to know people.
• 1:06:49
  During the pandemic like. You and Matt, Mark and Jeff and
• 1:06:53
  all that. Jeff made me go back and watch
• 1:06:55
  season 18, which I used to bash on, and I went, you know what?
• 1:07:00
  I'm wrong, It's a really good season.
• 1:07:02
  It's an incredibly good season. You know, it's as, what did Jeff
• 1:07:06
  say? Math.
• 1:07:06
  Magic. It's math.
• 1:07:08
  Magical. Math.
• 1:07:10
  Magical. Well, it's a great line and it
• 1:07:12
  is and. I watch Season 17, which I think
• 1:07:15
  is an atrocious train wreck, but I can watch Horns and Naiman.
• 1:07:19
  It's. I bet.
• 1:07:20
  I'll tell you what I think of that one.
• 1:07:21
  Then what? Do you hate it?
• 1:07:23
  Do you love it? Don't you?
• 1:07:24
  I. Freaking Love Season 17.
• 1:07:27
  You know what? The only one I really did still.
• 1:07:29
  Dislike is Nightmare Eden. I love that one Big red button
• 1:07:36
  next to the elevator. Why is there?
• 1:07:38
  A4 foot big red button. Well, look.
• 1:07:44
  There's. Something you and I've got to do
• 1:07:46
  OK, if you recall what happens. At the end of an episode, do you
• 1:07:49
  remember? Not really.
• 1:07:52
  Well, we need to. Name three reasons a piece.
• 1:07:54
  So start with you. Then back to me as to why we
• 1:07:57
  would recommend The Crimson Horror.
• 1:08:00
  Oh, OK, you're kind first. The setting.
• 1:08:08
  The setting. It's gorgeous.
• 1:08:09
  It's. I believe you're in the 1800s or
• 1:08:13
  late. Is it 18?
• 1:08:14
  Late. It's 1890s, right?
• 1:08:16
  I believe it. I don't see anything modern in
• 1:08:18
  it. It is all well disguised and
• 1:08:20
  sometimes you can. All right.
• 1:08:22
  No, that's not. See a creepy sign or a modern
• 1:08:26
  car? They miss a security lamp on a
• 1:08:28
  building. Three stories up because they
• 1:08:30
  weren't paying attention. I just felt I was in.
• 1:08:33
  In the past, the sepia tone, in the flashback, I felt I was I I
• 1:08:38
  want more. What I hated in sometimes in in
• 1:08:40
  Doctor Who is when they stop going backwards in time.
• 1:08:44
  Yeah, that's what I loved about Jodi.
• 1:08:46
  I I love those serious historicals again.
• 1:08:48
  I thought, I do, too. I'm a history.
• 1:08:50
  I'm a history nut. I'd love them.
• 1:08:52
  So 3 now hang on, hang on. Sorry, my first one is.
• 1:08:59
  I'm going to say the flashback because I think it does
• 1:09:03
  something so clever, so visually interesting and economic.
• 1:09:07
  I know those were words I used in the episode, but it is just
• 1:09:10
  it's it's a great way of catching us up without a long
• 1:09:14
  laborious sequence. Yeah, or having the beginning of
• 1:09:17
  the episode. I agree, and I agree that it's
• 1:09:19
  in a different tone. To show age and vintage, I did
• 1:09:23
  theatre sets and I would do. If we had a flashback, I would
• 1:09:26
  tell the lighting designer. I think I've painted the set so
• 1:09:29
  when you turn. Those lights yellow.
• 1:09:32
  It looks like a CP tone photograph and oh good.
• 1:09:34
  OK And I like that that you're really.
• 1:09:37
  It's a moving picture. Yeah.
• 1:09:39
  So OK you're second. I kind of want to say the big
• 1:09:48
  rocket in the the hidden rocket in the city.
• 1:09:51
  You know it was OK. You had done.
• 1:09:53
  You know it's. I kind of liked it.
• 1:09:56
  It's very old. Who?
• 1:09:58
  It's This is. I felt like I was watching an
• 1:09:59
  old doctor. Old Who?
• 1:10:02
  I'm going to say for my second. One, I like the fact this is a
• 1:10:04
  bit gross, so I like the fact we're dunk dunking people in
• 1:10:09
  goop. I like the fact that when Mr.
• 1:10:11
  Sweet is killed, you can see bits flying everywhere.
• 1:10:14
  The doctor's reaction and that horrible image of him clamped
• 1:10:18
  onto her chest and poor aid of the scratches all over her face.
• 1:10:23
  It's a bit of a Protesco episode.
• 1:10:25
  I don't think we do it enough in No, I think you should scare the
• 1:10:28
  shit out of the kitties. I.
• 1:10:29
  Mean, I really think Hinge, Cliff and Holmes work for a
• 1:10:32
  reason. Yeah, Well, yeah, exactly.
• 1:10:34
  A lot of stuff they did that they wouldn't do now.
• 1:10:36
  That's why I love that beating Planet of the You where the
• 1:10:38
  fella peels his head off at the end.
• 1:10:40
  Oh, he deserves it. You know, it's a horrible death.
• 1:10:44
  He deserves it. I love it.
• 1:10:45
  It's gross. I love it.
• 1:10:47
  Oh, yeah. All right, so.
• 1:10:51
  So my second one. No, no, my third one.
• 1:10:55
  Oh, my third one. The fact that I'm going to say
• 1:11:01
  the fact that the. The pad of Nostrogen get a carry
• 1:11:05
  a big chunk of the story. I forgot how much this was their
• 1:11:09
  story for a long period of time, and I think sometimes they're
• 1:11:14
  there just for the joke and. I don't like him as much when
• 1:11:19
  they're just. Part of the joke I prefer when
• 1:11:22
  they're. And a good man goes to war where
• 1:11:25
  he's crossed the line. And they are, you know what I
• 1:11:28
  mean? And they say.
• 1:11:29
  Don't do this this. Isn't you?
• 1:11:31
  I like them when they're that that they're heroes in their own
• 1:11:37
  right, and I like it. They.
• 1:11:39
  Specifically, Jenny. Deep breath.
• 1:11:42
  I don't like everything about Deep Breath, but I do like their
• 1:11:44
  involvement in it and how they're used to help that
• 1:11:47
  transition from Matt Smith to Peter Capaldi.
• 1:11:51
  Just having familiar figures around us that we.
• 1:11:54
  Yeah, I kind of like Deep Breath.
• 1:11:55
  I like the. Monster in it.
• 1:11:57
  I think he's a bit of a prat. Love that bit at the end where
• 1:12:00
  you're not sure whether he threw him out of the air balloon or
• 1:12:02
  not. I see.
• 1:12:04
  I liked it because my big. As much as I bash that season, I
• 1:12:09
  do think that Moffett. And Capaldi had a plan for that
• 1:12:13
  three years am IA Good man. I will try to be a good man.
• 1:12:18
  I am a good man. Well, I'm doing my best.
• 1:12:21
  I'm doing my best when that's all you can do.
• 1:12:23
  I'm a big fan of a. Comic called Star Man and I'm
• 1:12:25
  covering it on my other podcast and it's about a guy who
• 1:12:27
  inherits his father's title as Star Man and he does it.
• 1:12:31
  He wanted his brother to. His brother was Star Man for a
• 1:12:34
  day and was murdered by his dad's biggest enemy.
• 1:12:38
  And this guy owns a. Curio shop he wants.
• 1:12:40
  He's a nerd. He just wants to be the hipster
• 1:12:43
  dude. And it's it's a with a specific
• 1:12:46
  finite run over five years and it's do I want to be a hero.
• 1:12:49
  Kind of like being a hero. I am the hero of my city, and
• 1:12:54
  then I have to choose between being a hero and being a husband
• 1:12:57
  and a father. And I kind of like.
• 1:13:01
  That hero's. Journey.
• 1:13:02
  What does he choose? He gives his staff the star
• 1:13:05
  girl. And gives her the mantle and
• 1:13:07
  walks away. The girl.
• 1:13:08
  That's his choice. He does.
• 1:13:10
  It's not, you know it's. It's not even his girlfriend's
• 1:13:13
  child. It's his.
• 1:13:14
  He's drugged and he's the his dad's arch enemy's daughter,
• 1:13:18
  who's now taking on his mantle, gets impregnated by him and our
• 1:13:23
  our family was complicated. It's Superman.
• 1:13:26
  They wear capes and fly. Over the cities?
• 1:13:29
  Oh, so what's your third one? Yeah, well, I was going to
• 1:13:32
  choose the past Nos gang, damn you.
• 1:13:35
  But instead I am going to say, Oh yeah, do you know what I'm
• 1:13:40
  going to say? I'm going to say no.
• 1:13:42
  I can't say the direction because that's kind of ties into
• 1:13:44
  the first one, although the direction is fantastic.
• 1:13:48
  I'm going to say that this is a really intriguing way to do a
• 1:13:52
  doctorless story for the first half, and I think this is
• 1:13:59
  effectively. A backdoor pilot for the
• 1:14:02
  potential of the Paternoster Gang as ATV series.
• 1:14:05
  I I think think it's was. This a Doctor Light?
• 1:14:08
  Because Moffitt didn't really do Doctor Light.
• 1:14:11
  Not really. I'm guessing he was written out
• 1:14:14
  for a reason. You know, they're double
• 1:14:17
  banking. You know.
• 1:14:18
  It's it's hard, man. I don't know how they, you know,
• 1:14:21
  people complained about Chidnall.
• 1:14:23
  Whatever it's I think you're not getting it.
• 1:14:27
  He's just, he's just simplifying the process and he also had to,
• 1:14:33
  I don't, you know, you know, they don't have that.
• 1:14:36
  Much time and money. And BBC was the longer shows on
• 1:14:42
  The more you have to? Pay your regulars.
• 1:14:45
  And your union people the. Crew.
• 1:14:47
  You mean some of? These guys, there's a guy named
• 1:14:48
  Hugh Thomas is a there's a Hugh Aiken in the credits.
• 1:14:52
  He's a prop master, and it's spelled the way my father's felt
• 1:14:56
  it. He said he was you and so is his
• 1:14:58
  father and so is my brother and I saw it and he's and it spells
• 1:15:01
  Aiken the as my grandfather would say it the correct way but
• 1:15:06
  you know they that's why it happens.
• 1:15:08
  I had heard, I was reading that because of the writers strike,
• 1:15:10
  the writers are going, this happens because every year we
• 1:15:13
  get a raise and that's why they start.
• 1:15:17
  Cutting stuff because they. Have to give us the raise.
• 1:15:20
  Well, and as well, I know for a fact, because I know someone in
• 1:15:23
  the industry, that doctor whose budget was reduced again and
• 1:15:27
  again as the series went on. It was at his zenith, I think,
• 1:15:31
  when Davis went out during the specials and then there was an
• 1:15:36
  increased budget during the Day of the Doctor.
• 1:15:37
  But then during Capaldi's time, and certainly during the
• 1:15:40
  Whiskers time, the fact that those episodes look as good as
• 1:15:42
  they do with less money, because I think the Jodi episodes look
• 1:15:47
  as good as the show's ever I I I think it is down.
• 1:15:51
  And I don't want to be down and do any bad way, but it is there
• 1:15:54
  one they hired really good. I think the quality of direction
• 1:15:58
  and I love the direction. A lot of the directors are
• 1:16:01
  crazy. I don't want to know why Graham
• 1:16:03
  Harper has not been asked back since Davidson.
• 1:16:05
  I did ask him that in the convention, but did he, Kay?
• 1:16:08
  He's a polite man and he. And those would be quite right.
• 1:16:11
  Russell James just got my number is what he said.
• 1:16:14
  I I, I, you know, I think he's winding.
• 1:16:16
  Down as well. Now he's all He's my he's older
• 1:16:19
  than me. So he's got to be in his 80s,
• 1:16:22
  he's got to be in his 80s, so, but you know, he was a Crip.
• 1:16:26
  But you know when you had to have those big finales with all
• 1:16:29
  that over way too much action, who did you hire?
• 1:16:32
  You hire, you brought in him because this guy could do action
• 1:16:35
  with three Cam cameras and inside.
• 1:16:41
  And now he does just soaps, Yeah, which is kind of a shame.
• 1:16:45
  But he's got an impressive body. No, no, he's good.
• 1:16:47
  But see, but you got. Magnuson.
• 1:16:50
  Is it Magnuson? Who did Jamie Magnus Stone?
• 1:16:53
  Oh my God, he's so good. Yip.
• 1:16:56
  Is it this last name? Really.
• 1:16:57
  Yip? Yeah.
• 1:16:58
  Did Resolute. He's on American TV and they
• 1:17:01
  also did and. Also, Rachel Tolali does.
• 1:17:04
  She works in LA, Vancouver and in London.
• 1:17:07
  She's not back for the specials, isn't he?
• 1:17:09
  There's a reason she's doing the Beat the Meep episode.
• 1:17:11
  Oh my God, it's. Gonna be me and Mark did an
• 1:17:14
  episode about Beat the Meep. On Gallifrey on I did a
• 1:17:17
  Gallifrey's most wanted Proof of sense because we had to talk
• 1:17:20
  about beat the Meep because we but we he comes.
• 1:17:23
  On and we talk, doctor. Comic books and Oh yeah, yeah,
• 1:17:27
  yeah, yeah. And Kennett was here in Richmond
• 1:17:32
  and. Kingston and.
• 1:17:34
  And Kate were supposed to be here.
• 1:17:35
  They both cancelled. So me, my me and my wife and a
• 1:17:38
  friend of ours who's a Doctor Who fan, we're going to get a
• 1:17:41
  picture with. But my wife decided she wanted
• 1:17:43
  to go see Paul Mark Gossler from Saved by the Bell, so she got
• 1:17:47
  out of line. I can understand that entirely.
• 1:17:50
  Yeah. No, no, she I get it.
• 1:17:51
  She listens. She's.
• 1:17:52
  Saved by But she got during the pandemic.
• 1:17:54
  She watched every Saved by the Bell and every Baywatch.
• 1:17:58
  We had to do something in that time, all right, but we got to
• 1:18:03
  meet tenant talked. About filming and how much fun
• 1:18:07
  it was and that Dave. Gibbons, who Drew created.
• 1:18:12
  Beat to meet visually and was the artist on Watchmen.
• 1:18:17
  Came on set. Wow.
• 1:18:20
  Yeah, I would have been. I would have nerded with that.
• 1:18:22
  I'd have been like I would have brought every.
• 1:18:25
  Dave Gibbons comic We've got a big hardback.
• 1:18:27
  All of his Doctor Who's it's like giant cost me like 75
• 1:18:32
  bucks. I just he's an amazing artist
• 1:18:34
  and I just. I'm excited.
• 1:18:36
  I'm very excited. I want to ask you this.
• 1:18:37
  Are you excited for new What's coming?
• 1:18:40
  What you're seeing? My favorite era of Doctor Who is
• 1:18:44
  Rusty Davis's new series. It's my favorite of this entire
• 1:18:48
  60 years. And my favorite Doctor is David
• 1:18:51
  Tennant, and my favorite companion is Catherine Tate.
• 1:18:55
  So the fact that I'm getting Rusty Davis at David Tennant,
• 1:18:57
  well, see this, I'm a Moffett fan.
• 1:18:59
  And if I Anybody. Asked me who The best companion
• 1:19:01
  in modern era It's, it's Catherine Tate.
• 1:19:05
  Oh, she says The chemistry is perfect.
• 1:19:07
  And then I would take Pearl Mackie.
• 1:19:09
  Yeah, she's great as well. It's the one shot is just the
• 1:19:12
  one Season companions you know. Look Pearl Mackie.
• 1:19:15
  Catherine Tate, who knows it. One season, Martha, I think.
• 1:19:20
  Martha is an underrated companion because I do not like
• 1:19:24
  I really got sick of Rose. Well, then we need to.
• 1:19:28
  Get into that at some point. Maybe we should do one where
• 1:19:31
  with I would love. To talk Dave, you probably have
• 1:19:33
  covered all the Rose episodes. What's there's?
• 1:19:41
  You have not done all of Tennant.
• 1:19:43
  No, no, no, no. I've not done all of Tennant.
• 1:19:45
  No, I've done. I've got a few left.
• 1:19:48
  I'm just trying to think what there is.
• 1:19:50
  I haven't done fear. I'll be if you want.
• 1:19:54
  To just I'll have a smoke my little.
• 1:19:56
  I'll take some of my herbal anti anxiety medicine because that's
• 1:20:00
  a fucking disaster. You've just taken a Cancel axe
• 1:20:05
  from a. Cancel van wouldn't use it to
• 1:20:08
  cancel and. He can't run.
• 1:20:12
  He can't run. It runs like I do, like a But it
• 1:20:15
  would give us a chance to talk about Rose as well.
• 1:20:19
  Yes, yes. I do.
• 1:20:22
  I might. I think.
• 1:20:22
  Billy Piper Contract. I would love to do that when I
• 1:20:26
  and I. I I have nothing but respect for
• 1:20:29
  Billy Piper. I have my have some issues with
• 1:20:32
  Rose the person, and I think that's on purpose.
• 1:20:35
  I think that's not. Oh, I do too.
• 1:20:37
  I do too. I think you know me and Victoria
• 1:20:39
  got in heated discussions about we're.
• 1:20:40
  Having a long game with that character in Season 2 and you
• 1:20:44
  know, we had a long. Discussion Well, Mickey's a bad
• 1:20:47
  boyfriend. He deserves to be treated like
• 1:20:49
  that. Said No, I've been that
• 1:20:51
  boyfriend. I've been the bad boyfriend.
• 1:20:54
  Oh, she's not sad about that situation.
• 1:20:56
  I've been on both sides of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:21:00
  But I understand that. The bad.
• 1:21:01
  Behavior is hers. That moment when she runs into
• 1:21:05
  the TARDIS? That's heartless, you know?
• 1:21:09
  But what up? You know, But what about?
• 1:21:11
  What is it? What about me?
• 1:21:13
  Yeah, what about you or something?
• 1:21:15
  Something really. But if you want to do fear, I'm
• 1:21:17
  glad to come on talk about that. Well, I mean, my question
• 1:21:20
  throughout the episode was going to be where we're going next.
• 1:21:23
  Well, that's where we're going next then.
• 1:21:25
  But you and me are going next on to your podcast, Yes, to discuss
• 1:21:32
  Jodie. Whiskers like the woman Who fell
• 1:21:34
  to Earth. Oh, I can't wait.
• 1:21:36
  I can't wait. I want.
• 1:21:37
  It's a. Reason I have not watched any
• 1:21:38
  Jodie since it ended. Because I don't want to cry.
• 1:21:41
  I don't. It really it hurt with her
• 1:21:45
  leaving. I see why people who Jodi's
• 1:21:49
  their doctor and why they're grieving this is.
• 1:21:55
  Because I think she's one of those special.
• 1:21:56
  Doctors. She's amazing.
• 1:21:58
  I think she. I think she is.
• 1:21:59
  She's not my I'm. Very pleased.
• 1:22:01
  I'm still going to see David Tennant again because I love
• 1:22:03
  him, but she's my second favorite after Davidson, so I I
• 1:22:08
  got to put her up there. I mean, Matt's my.
• 1:22:09
  Doctor but I think I put her, I put her second.
• 1:22:17
  I really put her second. I really, I'd love that era.
• 1:22:20
  I just love it. I just love it.
• 1:22:22
  It had. I mean, it has its every season,
• 1:22:24
  every era has its era. It's questionable.
• 1:22:26
  There's some episodes where I'm like really.
• 1:22:29
  I still think it's pretty consistent though.
• 1:22:31
  It's a pretty well he's. I think he's a more.
• 1:22:35
  And I think he's very controlled.
• 1:22:36
  I think he knows what he wants. He's he doesn't he.
• 1:22:40
  There's not a there's not a lot of the fluff.
• 1:22:43
  There's none of that Davies and Moffatt fluff.
• 1:22:46
  He, you know, and the historicals.
• 1:22:49
  There's some moments like in Rosa when Graham says I don't
• 1:22:55
  want to be here. That's a real emotion.
• 1:22:59
  That's not ATV emotion. That's not a big grandiose
• 1:23:02
  emotion, that is. A good person hurting.
• 1:23:07
  And I just love it. And what I liked is that they
• 1:23:10
  had an old white guy. Yeah, it's like, well, you guys
• 1:23:14
  have always had representation. I said not in my life.
• 1:23:19
  There was Harry, then there was Turlo and Adric.
• 1:23:22
  I didn't Harry. I got.
• 1:23:23
  I liked her, though. Harry was in his late 30s.
• 1:23:28
  Yeah, but it's 50s? No, but see.
• 1:23:30
  She goes. As a man, you had someone to.
• 1:23:31
  Look at the doctor said. I don't see myself as a doctor.
• 1:23:34
  That's what you mean by representation?
• 1:23:36
  I didn't see myself on screen. Harry was 25 years older than
• 1:23:40
  me, and by the time Turlow and Advocate came around, I was 10
• 1:23:44
  years older than them because I was in my 20s.
• 1:23:48
  Well, so when Graham said he had a cheese and pickle sandwich in
• 1:23:51
  his pocket for emergencies, I was like, yeah, I've never I'm,
• 1:23:56
  I'm literally you. Like, you know, my wife watched
• 1:23:59
  that with me and she was like, you eat.
• 1:24:01
  Cheese and pickle sandwiches. I was like, yeah, what's wrong
• 1:24:04
  with that? Delicious, that's why.
• 1:24:06
  Oh no, no. And I'm a big pickle.
• 1:24:08
  Connoisseur she doesn't. I we have these spicy garlic
• 1:24:12
  ones that I just but I've never had an.
• 1:24:15
  English pickle, so I don't know how yours taste.
• 1:24:17
  Compared to our American ones. Delicious.
• 1:24:20
  I bet they I'm gonna have. To order some because you guys
• 1:24:21
  eat weird. Gherkins.
• 1:24:22
  Our gherkins are sweet. I know I like sweet gerkins as
• 1:24:26
  well. I do too.
• 1:24:27
  They used to be caught. My parents would have dinner
• 1:24:30
  parties and I would go and steal them in the olives under the to
• 1:24:34
  be under the table. So, well, yeah, I can't wait to
• 1:24:37
  talk about Jodi. I just can't wait to talk about
• 1:24:38
  Jodi with you. So before we before we head off
• 1:24:41
  into menu talk, OK, let me just say thank you.
• 1:24:45
  Very much for your time. It has been glow.
• 1:24:47
  Also, we get very excited when we talk about Doctor Who.
• 1:24:50
  It's high energy all the way and the love, it's beaming off.
• 1:24:54
  Yeah, I love it. I love it.
• 1:24:56
  I. Appreciate it.
• 1:24:57
  I love your show. I you have a lot.
• 1:24:59
  It's so hard to catch up on so I'm very I'm I'm.
• 1:25:02
  I'm always interested in the ones where oh someone likes this
• 1:25:06
  one and chose to do this. Let's listen.
• 1:25:09
  You realize I'm sort of in the tail end now, so I've got, I've
• 1:25:12
  got a lot of the dregs to cover. But the the one thing I've
• 1:25:15
  learned is a fan for everything. Well, I say that it's every
• 1:25:19
  doctor is someone's first. Doctor, every Doctor is
• 1:25:20
  someone's first Doctor. Every command you says you just
• 1:25:23
  can't. You don't get to judge him.
• 1:25:24
  You know, I'm my favorite companion all the time is Sarah
• 1:25:27
  Jane and will always be Sarah Jane, you know?
• 1:25:29
  But I understand why people like you know, there are other great
• 1:25:33
  ones, Leela. And you know Mel's coming back.
• 1:25:36
  Who would have thought I'd be excited that Mel was coming
• 1:25:39
  back? Always.
• 1:25:40
  Be excited to. See Mel again.
• 1:25:42
  I think she and I quickly love that.
• 1:25:44
  Character. I did.
• 1:25:46
  You know, the more I rewatch. It it's like you got screwed.
• 1:25:50
  But I love. I can't wait for him.
• 1:25:53
  Not anymore. No, I can't wait.
• 1:25:56
  Why? They're bringing her back.
• 1:25:57
  And he's not going to just bring her back, to bring her back, No,
• 1:26:00
  She looked at GOES. Am I going to be your new?
• 1:26:02
  CB Your new kid show star. Oh, you got to remember, Bonnie
• 1:26:07
  Langford is huge in terms of, like, star quality.
• 1:26:10
  Oh, no, no, no. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:26:11
  See, I knew her because. I knew her from Bugsy Malone.
• 1:26:16
  That's how my I'm the right age. She's talking about everything
• 1:26:18
  musical. She's got a team, she.
• 1:26:23
  She has been Roxy Hart in London, New York, Chicago.
• 1:26:29
  I think she may have done it in LA.
• 1:26:31
  There are certain cities in America that show was running
• 1:26:34
  multiple for years and she was oh, are Roxy's gone?
• 1:26:40
  Leaving. And we don't want to promote the
• 1:26:43
  understudy because we want to star.
• 1:26:45
  So can you fly out and do it? Because it's all the same show.
• 1:26:52
  And I can imagine she, she's, what, 60 something, Yeah. 60s
• 1:26:57
  now she still looks great. And I bet she could still do it.
• 1:27:02
  She's a job and actor, me and Victoria Respecter, because she
• 1:27:04
  is somebody who just came and did her got well.
• 1:27:06
  I loved her interview on. The Matthew Swede interview
• 1:27:11
  Where? You realize I don't.
• 1:27:12
  Know about the drama? I'm not.
• 1:27:13
  I showed up and did my job and went when my time was over.
• 1:27:17
  Were you sad? No.
• 1:27:18
  I went on to my next job. That's all my next job.
• 1:27:20
  And she never stopped working. Sadness.
• 1:27:22
  Yeah. She's amazing.
• 1:27:23
  I'm excited. I'm.
• 1:27:24
  Excited about who? Me too, Ross.
• 1:27:29
  Thank. You very much for your time.
• 1:27:31
  It's always a pleasure. And I'll see you Saturday.
• 1:27:34
  All right, All right.