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What I've Learnt - Katie Noonan · WHAT I'VE LEARNT

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_00: Katie Noonan's pure angelic voice makes her one of Australia's most versatile and beloved vocalists.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: A mother, singer, producer, songwriter, pianist, and businesswoman, this Aria award-winning and platinum-selling songstress first received widespread praise as the angel voice songstress of indie pop band George.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Since then, she's taken audiences on sublime excursions through jazz, pop, and classical music.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: Named one of Australia's most regarded singers of all time, the Herald Sun has referred to her as an extraordinary talent.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: Katie has performed by invitation for Australian and international prime ministers, members of the royal family, and His Holiness the Dalai Lama.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: With a buttery velvet voice that can transform almost any song into a melodic lullaby or soothing soulful rendition, her 20th album, The Sweetest Taboo, released this year, has given Katie's listeners a taste of their younger years.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: With unique covers of iconic 1980s pop songs.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: Get ready, you'll be dancing in your bedroom, hairbrush, mic in hand, to Katie's renditions of classic Whitney.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: I Wanna Dance with Somebody, transformed into a sultry, soulful sound.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: Or her cover of Crowded Houses Don't Dream It's Over is honestly one of the best versions I've heard.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_02: Hello, Hayena.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: We know the day.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: So sit back, relax with a tea or a G and T, and let's get intimate.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: So Katie, welcome to the What I've Learned podcast.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: We are thrilled to have you on the show, and we want to chat to you about so many things it's hard to know where to begin.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, well, thank you for your beautiful um intro.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_03: That's beautiful.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um, just before I start, I just wanted to acknowledge that I'm coming to you from um Gubby Gubby Country on the Sunshine Coast, and I just wanted to pay my respects to the elders of this country and um pay my respects to the elders past, present, and emerging.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um beautiful, beautiful.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm glad you did that.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I think it's um I've been lucky enough to be working with First Nations artists for well, my whole life, and music's been a beautiful portal into that magic ancient world.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_03: And um I just yeah, it's it's just a really nice thing to try to realize where you are and just acknowledge the history of the country that we're on.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and it also, when you do that, when you think that way, it enables you to meet lots of new people, which is awesome.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: But um I love that actually, yes, because it's interesting you say that because it's actually on one of my questions I wanted to ask you.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe we should just talk about that because you are a supporter, a huge supporter of indigenous music and culture.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm interested um, you know, what you've learned from both of those.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, clearly they inspire you.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I know that I noticed that you actually posted something um in response to the Uluru statement from The Heart released by Midnight Oil.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: And um, there's that beautiful saying, to our father's father, the pain, the sorrow, to our children, the glad tomorrow.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: Can you talk to that a bit for me?
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: Because I found that quite quite special.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, well, those words are by Uduru Nunaku, um, who is basically, oh, she's just an amazing Australian woman, uh First Nations woman from Kwandamuka Country, which is uh just off the Bay of Brisbane, otherwise known as Strabrock Island, North Strabbrook Island.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_03: And it's yeah, yeah, it's where I've spent a lot of time.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_03: I'm actually going there next week to reconnect with hopefully my writing muse.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um uh because I've written most of my songs there, actually, and I got married there, and I've had my first holiday.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like it's just a it is a magical piece of country.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_03: And um it's also the birth and and resting place of Woodrun Nunakle, who was one of my heroes from a young age.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, pretty little.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_03: I remember doing a school assignment on her and her poetry when I was like seven or eight.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember reading her words and thinking, wow, she's amazing.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_03: What a strong woman, and just getting fascinated by this ancient culture from a young age.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and then uh I actually Udru used to run camps over on the island where she'd just invite young, you know, non-Indigenous kids to come over and just learn about indigenous ways of life.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I think if you spark that interest at a young age, it's just part of your thinking.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_03: So, and because I live in Queensland, which has the highest population of First Nations people by quite a long way, um, you know, because we have all our Torres Strait families as well.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, I just have, I don't know, I feel lucky to have just met beautiful people and been welcomed onto country and been to some very special ceremonies and yeah, just had a glimpse into this very special sacred world.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I think the two, well, there's so much that I love about Indigenous culture, but the two main things that I take away, well, there are many, but um the main thing is family.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_03: Everyone is family.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_03: So you're one big mob, you're one big family.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um and when I've been on country and community with my kids, you know, all the kids are just running around and everyone's looking out for the kids.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_03: It's not just you only looking out for your kids, it's just one big family.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_03: That's the feeling, and it's a beautiful feeling.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um very special.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_03: And respect for elders.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's something that we non-Indigenous people have really stuffed up.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we kind of put old people away in homes and think that they're not worthy of our time and our love and our respect.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_03: And oh, you know, our elders are our teachers.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_03: And so I find that just bizarre that we the people that have lived longer than us aren't given the respect they deserve.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_03: Whereas in First Nations culture, the elders are given the respect they deserve, which is something that I think we could really, really, really learn from.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_03: And then, of course, connection to country, so just their profound understanding of this country and the way it works with the seasons and the plants and the, you know, the the respect for the environment.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um there, and of course, then of you know, the beautiful rituals and traditions and the incredible music.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um, some of my favorite voices that I've ever heard, ever, you know, um Underway Unipingu, um Guru Moore.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: Gurumor, yeah, I was fantastic.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_03: Emma Donovan, the late great Arnie Ruby Hunter, Tidis, you know, Frank Yammer, I mean, the Stiffjins, that's just off the top of my head.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_03: Amazing voices that I've heard, Thelma Plum, you know, Senator Briggs.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_03: They just all are such amazing voices.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um do you think those voices are being heard more than they were being heard?
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: Or do you think, do you think there's a change, or do you think there's a an increased awareness?
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: Are we learning?
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: Are we actually learning from the past?
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: And is, you know, when I look at uh so many of the things that you've outlined are so fundamental, it's hard to see how we can't resonate those lessons.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think um I think there's a I have faith in my fellow non-Indigenous Australians that there is a desire for true reconciliation and true recognition of the fact that sovereignty was never ceded.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, we are the only Commonwealth country that doesn't have a treaty with its First Nations people, which is an international disgrace.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_03: So I I I have I believe that my fellow Australians are um open to change, but we've we just haven't seen any leadership on a federal level that's been, you know.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, the last yeah, I mean, you know, Whitlam was one of the first people to really bring about systemic change, obviously with Marb, you know, and then leading on to Marbo and of course.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: I do I know Marbo very well.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because I yes, um, I know somebody who was very involved with that, and it's a pretty powerful story, and at least it it's being taught in schools to kids now.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but I mean if you look at so, you know, for example, if we compare ourselves with our counterparts across the ocean in New Zealand, I mean, we are deck we're long, long, long, long, long way away from that level of respect where basically, you know, the Maori language is taught to every New Zealand child.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_03: And um, you know, uh all the the the profound respect for the Maori culture is so beautiful.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_03: And um they're very, you know, it's very, very, very different.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but it's um it's beautiful to observe and learn from.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, the last federal government kind of I guess the Uluru statement from the heart, I remember reading that at the time and thinking, what a beautiful piece of writing that is, you know.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: I thought so too.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_03: And so and fortunately Turnbull just it just seemed to become a thing and then it just went away.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_03: It you know, it just didn't seem to have the yeah, that look, there hasn't been leadership that's been able to navigate that space.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and the last thing really was a symbolic thing, which Kevin Rudd did with the sorry, the apology for the stolen generation, which of course was beautiful, but was symbolic.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_03: It wasn't legislative, it wasn't constitutional.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't at the core, yeah, it wasn't constitutional.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: But this is interesting because you, you know, you're often very vocal about things that matter to you, and I really respect that about you, whether it's on QA or radio, you know.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about also the power of music to transform and to.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: So if you look at Midnight Oil, putting it back on the agenda again, um you know, that's pretty powerful.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: And that image of that cover, you know, is really strong and yes, so beautiful.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: So the album cover I'm referring to, obviously.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: But um, but tell me about, you know, you clearly use your platform um in a way to to transform and to maybe transcend some of the bureaucracy and to try and engage awareness and the community around these issues.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: What's your thoughts on that, the power of music to transform?
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, well, music's been transforming humans for millennia.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, whether it be back to Gregorian chant and the profound place of music in uh spirituality and religion, you know, um, music usually accompanies the greatest, the most significant moments of your life.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, getting married, burying a loved one, you know, happy birthday is accompanying, you know, like music is so transformative.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and and it has this ability, it's the great equalizer, um, because the language doesn't actually matter.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, I listen to Bach and it's in German, and I don't need to understand what's being said, but I can feel it.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_03: And the same with Gurumul when he sings in language, you know, I don't need and Emily Wormara, for example, a beautiful, um, young, gorgeous young artist.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_03: When she sings in language, and as Emma Donovan does on her new album, Crossover, which by the way is a masterpiece.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I'm gonna listen to that.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, it's so good, it's so good.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_03: It's so, so, so good.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_03: I can't stop playing it.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um, when yeah, language doesn't matter, so it's the great equalizer.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_03: And half the time when you're listening to music, you've got your eyes shut.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_03: So it doesn't matter what you look like, it doesn't matter what your religion is, what gender you are, what your sexual preference is, just nothing matters in the moment of music other than connecting to yourself and connecting to something bigger than ourselves.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_03: So I guess I agree with that, yeah.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's a very good point.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: And and you really do um use that to its full potential, I can see, to to inspire, engage, and just to be honest, to soothe.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, speaking of that, you know, during lockdown, obviously we were all pretty uh um the the the access to things was pretty well, yeah, pretty, pretty limited.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so you you you did that innovative um lockdown live stream concert, you know, with the last Friday on each month.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I just thought it was brilliant.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: How did you come to that?
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: And and was that something that you weighed up carefully, or did you think, what the hell, I'm just gonna put it out there and and speak to my listeners?
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_03: I just needed something, you know, like music without an audience is like oh, it just feels weird.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_03: It's you know, like we made of communion, you know, it's about the communion, it's the communion of spirits.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_03: And um, so yeah, I just thought, well, who knows how long this thing's going to last.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, even recently with the hot spots in Adelaide, this is going to be a thing that's with us for many years, and it's frighteningly contagious and blah, blah, blah.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_03: And it's there are so many unknowns, it reacts with different humans, differently, you know, it's it's it's certainly one of the biggest challenges that the human race, you know, has faced in recent times, and it's affected every single human on the planet pretty much in some degree.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_03: So um that's huge.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_03: And so, um, but for me, I need that communion and without with with other people, and without it, I've been pretty lost.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_03: So I thought most of the artists, yeah.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, we'll take that into our own hands and also provide meaningful experiences for my fellow musicians.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um, my husband's been amazing at kind of transforming into an engineer and videographer, you know, like a huge learning curve there.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so it's been good to have, you know, humans need purpose.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um and connection.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_03: And connection.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if I'm obsessed, I'm a little bit obsessed with the Netflix series The Crown.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah, totally get that.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_03: It's amazing.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but there was this, I didn't remember because I was too young, but in the early 80s, this guy broke into the palace to talk to the queen, and he managed to get into her bedroom, and they had a very, you know, they had a chat.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but basically he said, I need a purpose, you know, I need a purpose.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_03: And he'd been unemployed.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_03: He was a painter decorator who'd been unemployed, and you know, this was the Thatcher era.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_03: And just hearing him say that, I was like, it's so true.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_03: We need a purpose.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, and so for me, I needed a purpose, and that monthly concert kept me busy with rehearsals and you know, programming and putting it together, and yeah, so it's been this beautiful sense of um connection again.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's interesting you say that because uh I've done that with the podcast, and it's actually been the best thing I've ever done, which is you know, interviewing and meeting the most extraordinary people um through this time.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, but it's interesting, you clearly love your family and you work closely with your mother as well and and Zach.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: So how how um is that did you grow up in a musical environment or was it something that you and you know, not everybody necessarily, even if they do, want to, you know, play music with their husband or with their mother, but you clearly have a beautiful connection there.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: So talk to me a little bit about that.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well, look, I come from a long line of museos and carnies, actually.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_03: My my grandfather was a clown, a singing clown, quite literally.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um I love that.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_03: On the Tivoli circuit.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um, to be honest, I'm not sure if he was the best dad to my dad, but he was a great entertainer.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_03: And um, I mean, that was a different era.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_03: Parenting was much, much, much less hands-on, shall we say.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_03: But um yeah, so my grandfather was a singing clown, um, and he actually was in some of the original Ma and Pa Kettle movies and uh children.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_03: That's extraordinary.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I'm kind of old school Aussie Carney folk, really.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um, my grandfather, whenever we went to the ECA, which is what Brisbane people call the Royal Show, the Royal Exhibition Show, um, when we'd go down Sideshow Alley, you know, with all the dudes who, you know, had the um, well, basically the carney folk.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_03: My granddad, everybody.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_03: He knew everyone.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_03: He was like the the it was awesome.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_03: I loved going to the Echo with my granddad, and he'd um give us an exorbitant amount of money to like go on rides, and that was a big anyway.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_03: That was so he was a beautiful man.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um, he was a singing clown.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_03: My grandmother was an opera singer, they were on the Tivoli circuit in the 30s, 40s.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um, then my dad was a jazz crooner, so he used to do six o'clock rock uh, you know, on local television and toured with Johnny O'Keefe and all of that stuff.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_03: And then my mum's an opera singer, my my mum's mum was a pianist, my mum's sister was a musician.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_03: So it's kind of in our, you know, it's in your blood, it's in your veins.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: You're literally in your veins in more ways than one.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: But it is interesting that concept of enculturation versus like it's interesting whether, I mean, clearly you have a core, beautiful biological talent that is, you know, you can't create that, it's there.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: So so it's just interesting about the notion that whether you were because you were surrounded by all of this, would this would this have um cultivated this in you, or do you think you would have done it no matter what or how or where you were?
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I don't know because all I know is my life, which has been intrinsically musical since the beginning.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_03: So, but I mean, my husband, for example, he's an amazing musician and in many ways, much stronger.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_03: Like when I moved from the opera degree to the jazz degree, he had a much, much, much deeper understanding of harmon harmony and um, you know, the jazz world than me.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_03: And he is an amazing composer in a way that I really admire and to be honest, sometimes don't understand.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I really respect his deep musicianship.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_03: Whereas he comes from a long line of sugarcane farmers and chippies and teachers.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_03: So his dad's a builder, his mum's a teacher, his, you know, there are no artists, you know, no, no, certainly no professional artists, but not even really um hobby artists in his family.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_03: So he's kind of the black sheep.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_03: His sisters are both very much in similar roles to their family, you know, one's a nurse, one's a teacher, very practical essential services, you know.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and for example, like in the lockdown, the enormous difference between us and them, for example, just you know, non-essential workers and essential workers, it was like, wow, it really is different.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_03: You know, their life didn't really, I mean, everyone's life changed, but yeah, but they hadn't stop immediately.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I know exactly what you're saying.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's a very, I mean, I've got musicians in my family and I've got med students in my family, and it's all very it is a completely different journey, but it's interesting because I think what you're saying is is really fascinating.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: That I suppose if you want to, you'll find it, whatever your purpose is.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, and his mum is his mum did play the saxophone when she was little, and he found her saxophone in a cupboard.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_03: So that's where his beautiful saxophone started.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_03: He still has that original alto.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_03: He doesn't play alto really anymore.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_03: He plays tenor and soprano, which is you know different.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but yeah, so he's really the the black sheep, and that happens, you know.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_03: People just and unfortunately, our poor kids, they've just pretty much got no hope of not being artistic in some way because they're both their parents full time artists, and um, and they're both amazing musicians.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_03: Our son Dexter.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: Lucky them.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me about Dexter, he's a drummer.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, he's a drummer, and he's a he's amazing, he's a drummer and a filmmaker.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_03: That's what he is all about.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_03: And Jonah is an amazing.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: Singer and an actor.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_03: So they're the they're the two, they're their pursuits that they seem to be, you know, going with.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, yeah, Dexter is truly extraordinary at drumming, and Jonah is truly an extraordinary singer.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_03: They're very special young artists.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: So well, what a great opportunity to be surrounded by such music.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it will cultivate that growth for them and allow them to go on their journey, but with your sort of lens behind them.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting too because a lot of people say, Oh, you know, look, do like I know for a fact, people um in my family, for example, I mean, there's some musical talent, and a lot of the response is that's wonderful, that's great.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: Now, what are you really going to do?
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, people have a cynicism around it.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: And ironically, when people are successful like yourself, actually they are held up to the highest regard in our community, whether it's a writer, a musician, an actor, an artist, all of the arts are actually revered.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: But when people when young people are on that journey, it's really challenging for them to be supported, I think, in communities often.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: What's your what's your take on that?
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_03: Well, when you say artists are revered, I do agree, but I also kind of still kind of don't, because Australian, you know, we do, we don't, I don't think we show enough.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_03: I I don't think we really understand how intrinsic the arts are to our lives.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um, COVID has helped a little, um, but I don't think people realize how truly desperately unhappy they would be without the arts in their life.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: I agree.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_03: They would have no gigs, they would have no books, they would have no plays, yeah.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_03: They would have no theater, they would have no plays, they would have no Netflix, there'd be nothing to watch.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, it's I think it's we uh again, I s uh coming back to you know, federal leadership, I don't think there's been a true um appreciator of the arts at a federal level since Paul Keating.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and in fact, policy that he started in the 80s, you still see the effects of it 40 years later, um, in how it has created generations of, you know, like for example, a small example.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_03: He helped um Arthur Boyd turn his property down in near Nara into an artist in residency program, a place where I've been three times and written the bulk of three records, you know, and extraordinary, yeah, like really extraordinary.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_03: One tiny example, you know, and and yeah, like even though I do think, see, yeah, it's a weird thing because I'm not interested in in the idea of fame at all.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_03: I don't find that I just don't, I'm not interested in that at all.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_03: And unfortunately, in the last 15 years, um, there's there's been the advent of reality TV shows um as uh as the gate into the music industry, which has obviously worked for a few amazing artists like Guy Sebastian, um, Casey Donovan, Jessica Mowboy, you know, a Matt Corby.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_03: There's a handful of them that have come through that machine and have emerged the other side as true artists.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_03: I think they're all amazing musicians.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_03: But then you don't, sorry to say, but you don't really remember the other 10 or 15 that were on.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_03: I mean fame is not like anyone, like for example, all the artists that I admire, Tom Waits, Björk, Jeff Buckley, Aretha Franklin, Stevie Wonder, you know, whoever it is, they'd never win one of those shows because they're too weird.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: Imagine Tom Waits.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_00: Tom Waits would have got up and sung, um, it's um, you know, it's the piano that's been drinking, not me.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: Can you imagine?
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like and it's no, and I understand that people I look, I I sound like a snob, and I shouldn't, because you know, I was a bloody sloth this year.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_03: So it's not like I haven't done TV stuff that's been silly and fun, but um when uh anyway, fame is not what uh any true artist is interested in.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_03: So recognition is different.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_03: I think recognition you know is different.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, obviously you want an audience because as I said before, music without an audience is it feels without, you know, it that's you make it for the purpose of connecting and communion with other people.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, but just quickly, what was I gonna say?
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I have I do feel that this year most artists have felt that they are entirely non-essential and they're not respected or understood or valued, honestly.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I've felt that, and I think every it's been it's been yeah, an Armageddon, actually, is what it's been for a lot of people that I've spoken to.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and within you know, a month of um COVID, you know, all of us obviously had lost 100% of our income, but I think you know, 60% of our major arts organizations had all just shut and gone, you know.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_03: So we were the worst affected and will be the last to recover.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and you know, we've seen a package that was announced months ago, which none of the actual money has actually gone anywhere yet.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_03: Umrageous, really.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_03: Well, no, look, it's great.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_03: Look, the any support is awesome.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_03: So you don't want to.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_03: Unless it gets through, we just get through.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: Through to the people that need it.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, yeah, look, it has been tough.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: I and I hear you.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: And and it's a it's to be honest, it's quite a universal experience.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: I do think though, we do at this time, it's actually the one thing that people need, though, is the healing and the arts often provide that.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: And as you said, if you speak to anybody, what do they do?
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: They go, Well, I've been listening to podcasts, I've been watching Netflix, I've been listening to music.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's actually where a lot of people find solace.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_03: So great thing, um emergency department nurse.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_03: I saw it on socials a while back in England.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_03: You know, there was um some horrible ad in the UK.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_03: I don't really know much about it, but it was a picture of a ballet dancer putting on their point shoes, and it said, you know, she'll have to think about a new career now, or something like that, basically just totally disregarding the art form of dance and you know.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_03: And an emergency department nurse did a video that went viral.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_03: I can't really remember it, but basically she said, Look, when I get home from my eight days saving people's lives, if I didn't have music, I couldn't cope.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_03: I have to put music on.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_03: And how dare you, the arts minister, I think it was, you know, say that my job is more important than that person's?
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_03: That's just not true.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_03: You know, she said, I couldn't do my job without that, without that solace.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: Really special that, yeah, that she said that and she said it publicly.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's um, I think so.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: Just on that note, can you talk to me a little bit about what's what's one or even two of your favorite songs, things that move you, other than obviously your beautiful album, which is which pays homage to some of the great songs of the 80s.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'd be interested to hear for our listeners what what um music really you know it's very special to you.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, gee, that's like asking to pick your favorite child.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um, or if I had two dogs, like you do, my favorite dog, that would be very hard.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I've only got one, so it's easy.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um if anyone hasn't heard Joni Mitchell, I would just agree, very recommended.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, buying her record blue.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_03: It's a masterpiece.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_03: Favorite album.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, I love that album.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: I can't believe you just said that.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_03: Because I actually it just I remember the first time I heard it.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_03: I just was like, oh my god, what who is this woman?
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_03: Her storytelling is so amazing, her voice is extraordinary, you know, all that stuff.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_03: But just yeah, her perspective on the world is very beautiful.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_03: And um the song, well, blue is an amazing, I mean, they're all beautiful, but my probably my favorite album, a song on that album is Little Green, which is an achingly sad song because in the 60s you couldn't be a mother and have a full-time career.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it was very, very difficult to be.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_03: Well, she was a single uh yeah, anyway, it was very hard to be a mother and be an artist.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and thank God for the feminists of the 60s and 70s that helped change that so people like myself can do both, but for her, she couldn't.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_03: And Little Green is a beautiful song about the daughter that she gave up um at that time.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, it's a it's very beautiful.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, um, but talking of I would have to say um Let Love Rule by Uncle Archie Roach, which came out, and I remember it came out the week that Trump was elected.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: Oh ironic!
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my god, can we please let love rule?
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I needed that album because I was so scared for the future of you know the the As we all were.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and it's been a pretty weird year, uh four years.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but Let Love Rule by Lunk by Uncle Archie Roach is an incredible body of work, and uh really from a masterful songwriter, he's probably he'd have to be in his 60s, maybe even early 70s, but a man that's lived a big, beautiful life, and a man that's filled with love and magic.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_03: So, and then the new generation of First Nations amazing artists, Emma Donovan's new record, Crossover, is so great.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my god, it's so good.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_03: So if you haven't heard that, it only came out um I think two weeks ago, and it's you know, she's amazing.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_03: The band, the putbacks are amazing, and I hope it makes her world famous because she deserves it.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and she's super talented.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and just finally, another quick reference because we we love getting an insight into the guests by what they read and what they listen to.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: What would be your favorite book at the moment, or a book that you know that you've loved from the past?
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_03: Well, um the beautiful Melbourne artist Claire Bodic, who I love and adore, um, she wrote a book last year called Be Your Own Kind, Your Own Kind of Girl.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_03: Your Own Kind of Girl, yeah, it's a great book.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: I've read that, yeah.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I just needed that book at that time.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um, it's a very, very honest, beautiful, well written, um, true, honest memoir of someone's journey with well, mental health.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_03: And basically, you, you know, without giving too much away, she had a significant, you know, um, well, pretty much kind of like a nervous, you know, basically a sort of nervous breakdown or whatever you call it, a major moment in her young, you know, about 20 years ago.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_03: And it's just a beautiful, honest um uh reflection of um mental health and how to look after yourself and self-care.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, it's beautiful.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_03: I cried a lot reading it.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_03: I read it in like a day and a half.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_03: I just read it almost in one sitting, I couldn't put it down.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_03: So um, yeah, that would be one of my big recommendations.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_03: And I recently just was recommended a book by two extraordinary women who I really admire, and I haven't read it myself, so there's that.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_03: But um, and I noticed the other day that apparently Adele um said, Oh, you've got to read this book.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_03: So anyway, I know what it is.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's called Untamed.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: Stop pleasing, start leaving.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it is amazing.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: I've literally sent it to every single one of my girlfriends and my daughters.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, well, I'm saving it for next week.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_03: You'll love it.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_03: But when I saw the front, Brini Brown saying, Some books shake you by the shoulders while others steal your heart.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_03: Untamed does both at the exact time.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_03: Wake up and love you.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, holy crap, I need to read that book.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: You really do.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: You'll love it, Katie.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's very, very powerful, and you'll probably read it similarly in one or two days.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's a pretty powerful, yeah.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's really quite um and brave, which is great.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's like she really takes you on the journey.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: But that's so exciting.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: I love that you first of all, I'm very excited that you've highlighted Blue, one of my all-time favorite albums, Joni Mitchell.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and Court and Spark is another beautiful one in that song.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: I bet you could sing that.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: Love came to my door.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: I bet you could sing that beautifully.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: I would have loved to you do that.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_03: Court and Spark is that caught in morning, Mom, I can tell.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my god.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_03: And what's the other one?
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um, um oh the um, you know, oh crap, the one where the wheels, cartwheels turning and the wheel, yeah, and the wheel that go around and turn and go upside down.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_02: Upside down.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_03: Holy moly, what a song.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_03: What a song.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: Oh please do it.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: Please do a Joni Mitchell cover album.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_03: I'll I'll it would just I'd be too scared to write my own songs.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, the other so she's been smoking uh since she was eight or something.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_03: So when she was younger, as you know, she had this very pure bell-like soprano, crazy awesome instrument.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_03: And now she has this gorgeous kind of velvety, raspy kind of voice that's lived a big life.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_03: And I actually love both voices, but I actually prefer her older voice because it's just got so much life in it.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_03: And Tratilogue is basically her re um interpreting, you know, the amazing songs of her album with an amazing jazz band with Wayne Shorter, Brian Blade, I think it's Patatucci on double bass, and Herbie Hancock on Keys, and then a full symphony orchestra as arranged by amazing composer Vince Mendoza.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_03: So it's just this crazy awesome record.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, and I'm just going to recommend one more record, an album called Scratch My Back by Peter Gabriel.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_03: Holy moly, that's one of the best.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_03: Basically, oh, it's amazing.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_03: If you like, I mean Peter Gabriel's voice, obviously, but it's him doing songs that he admires, completely reorchestrated by John Metcalf, who's a New Zealand, quite young New Zealand composer.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um, it's just mind-blowingly awesome.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_03: Is it Scratch My Back?
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_03: Scratch My Back, yeah.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: Just checking, I got the title.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_03: It came out about, I'd say, 10 oh at least 10 years ago.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and it's him doing songs that he admires, like songs by Lou Reed, Elbow, Gina Spectre, The Magnetic Fields, Bat Bowie.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_03: And some interpretation of them all posturally.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_03: It's mind-blowingly amazing.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_03: Beautiful.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's on my list too, and all our listeners will be thrilled to have access to some of your beautiful recommendations.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I want to thank you so much for coming on the What I've Learned podcast.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: You've been an absolute gem and a pleasure to interview.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I look forward to coming to see you live as soon as possible, once we're out in the world.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, where are you based?
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: We're Melbourne.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we're a bit slower than everybody else, but you're Queensland performing.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, just thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, Melbourne, for working so hard.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_03: At, you know, you guys really took the brunt of the nation's, you know.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_03: Uh you guys were I was in Melbourne only for two weeks, and my God, it was depressing.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_03: Um, it's pretty tough.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_03: And full of down the eight o'clock curfew, the one hour a day thing.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_03: I was there and it was only two weeks, and I was like, wow, this is so challenging.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um you guys did it for months.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_03: So I just thank you.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_03: And now obviously we have to send the same love and solidarity to Adelaide to get through this thing.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_03: And and we'll all I think I'm not to be negative, but I think we all should be prepared that we'll all have to go through probably some measures in the next certainly once the international borders are open, we're gonna have this kind of wave for the next year or two.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and that's okay.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_03: We just have to succumb to it and and and do what we need to do, you know.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so just finally, do you have faith that that the arts are going to reboot, recalibrate, restore?
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, particularly like I know some musicians, uh a few that I've interviewed, have moved to Sydney to so that they can do gigs.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um what's your thinking around that?
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: Are you feeling hopeful?
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_03: I'm always hopeful.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I'm not feeling particularly hopeful that there's a deep understanding of what we do, and I'm not feeling that there's a cultural advocacy voice at a federal level that is loud enough at the moment.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um but, you know, uh it's such a bizarre time in the world that to be suddenly going, hey, what about the arts?
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_03: When, you know, frontline, you know, when when we're just in the middle of such a hectic pandemic, um, it feels kind of selfish to kind of, you know.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_03: But I hope that once we get through this, that people do come to a new appreciation for artists and how hard they work at making what they do.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I think the time, I mean, yeah, this is a whole nother discussion, but I do think that we I don't think it should go back to the way it was, because it really was pretty dire already to be an artist in Australia.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_03: So I think we do really need to look at our cultural policy and our funding models and what the Australian taxpayer dollar funds and whether they tell Australian stories enough, because I personally don't think they do.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_03: So there are some great examples, like Ian Grandage has just announced his festival, and Wesley Enoch has just announced his festival.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_03: So that's the Perth and Sydney festivals.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_03: And they're they're amazing.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and and one of the positives is that there are no international artists because there can't be.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I think we turn things around and realize that we don't, we are, we make world-class art here, but in order for us to keep on doing it, we do need infrastructural economic support like every other industry.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_03: So it's it's time to talk about policy and um the funding models, and you know, as much because you know, fundamentally we're a Judeo-Christian European capitalist society, for want of a better over, you know, top line.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_03: And and the way that those societies measured their culture was by the existence of an orchestra, an opera company, a ballet company, and a theater company.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_03: And I love those constructs.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_03: I think they're beautiful things that we need to keep, but they need to tell Australian stories.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_03: That is such a great perspective.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_00: I love that perspective.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_03: The four pillars.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_03: Where's the innovation of that?
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_03: Where's, you know, and I've just seen Victorian Opera, who are such a wonderful opera company, you know, they're bringing back Voss, which was this amazing opera, Australian opera written in the 80s, that was written and then no one did anything with it, you know.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_03: Whereas the opera That was Patrick White, yeah.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_03: Patrick White.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_03: I think the text was Patrick White.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's based on a book by Patrick White, yeah.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and so fundamentally Australian, Australian music, Australian story, written in the 80s, and then barely done since then.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_03: Whereas each year they do Aida, they do Tosca, they do the Pearlfishes, they do, you know, such a good point, Katie.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so that's my kind of that's my take on it.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_03: And but look, it sounds hopeful, but I think what you're saying is hopeful.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_00: It just needs to be driven.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it has to be legisless, yeah, legless, well, what you know what I mean, legislated about.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, I hear you.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_03: And I've quotas have to be enforced.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_03: If we don't enforce content quotas for Australian content, I think we're really going to have many dire effects.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_03: First of all, loss of income, loss of identity, loss of art.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: Artistry, but also just, you know, helping us as a culture define who we are.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_03: That's what the arts are for.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_03: So having quotas enforced in those big, beautiful bastions of culture, you know, theatre, opera, orchestra, ballet, um, I think that's beyond uh required.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_03: And COVID should, I hope, will lead to that sort of cultural advocacy.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_03: And it won't be an easy decision, and people, a lot of people won't like it.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_03: But, you know, what's that thing that Brini Brown said?
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um, uh, what's the thing?
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_03: Vulnerable.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_03: Well, yeah, but show me the man, you show me, you know, unless you're in the ring having the fight, kind of oh, I can't remember the quote, but basically, you know, big decisions, important decisions are never easy.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's a good summary.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: Your your precy of it is perfect.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, thank you, Katie.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_00: You've been an absolute delight to interview, as I'm as I said before, and I look forward to coming to see you live as I have done on a number of occasions.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um and um yeah, and and hopefully um we'll all be out and about soon.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: It is definitely the sun is shining today.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: There is hope.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um and now I'm gonna go and listen to all that music that you've just recommended.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_03: Well, actually, um, not I'm not trying to plug my own thing, but the A Song of Hope, which is the song that I wrote of Udru Nunakle's words.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_03: She had such a hard life and fought so hard for First Nations Um rights, human rights, you know.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and she that poem, A Song of Hope, for her to have hope, um, is so inspiring.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_03: And that's her words, which finish which the poem finishes with to our fathers' father's the pain, the sorrow, but to our children's children's the glad tomorrow.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_03: So I think we're beautiful forward to a glad tomorrow.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I agree.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you, Katie.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_00: And you look after yourself and you get out there and you just sing that new album because it's beautiful.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_00: And enjoy your day.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_00: Take care.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me, lovely.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_00: Absolute pleasure.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much for listening.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you've learned as much as I have.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: The What I've Learned Podcast will now be coming to you weekly, with new episodes released every Tuesday.
• 46:22
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• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm blessed to have so many wonderful guests coming on the show, so check out my What I've Learned Instagram for updates.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: For more stories or an opportunity to tell your own, please visit my website at mindfilm and publishing dot com.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_00: Meanwhile, stay tuned, stay kind, and of course, stay curious.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_00: Love to