Latest / Claymore: Become Who You Are / #484 Confronting the Rainbow Wolves, Even In The Church, Who Are After Our Children on the 3S Highway (Self, Sex, State) To No-Where.

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#484 Confronting the Rainbow Wolves, Even In The Church, Who Are After Our Children on the 3S Highway (Self, Sex, State) To No-Where. · Claymore: Become Who You Are

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Become who you Are podcast, a production of the John Paul II Renewal Center.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: I'm Jack Rigg, your host.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Hey, thanks for joining me today.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: St Catherine of Siena said that if you become who you are, that you would literally set the world on fire.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: And St Athanasius, an early church father and a doctor of the church, said the son of God became man so that we might become God.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: You know I make a wild guess at this, but I bet you, most of us, are a bit disconnected from this divine life that these saints are pointing us to.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Yet Saint John Paul II said there's an echo of the story of this divine life that we're created for, inscribed in each human heart, in your human heart.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: And if you put on the proper lens if I put on the proper lens we can get in touch with this echo within us in such a way that we have that aha moment.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: See, that's the genus of St John Paul II's theology of the body.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: It connects our lived experience of life to the gospel in such a way that our life takes on a whole new meaning and helps us answer those big questions that our whole culture is so confused about today meaning and helps us answer those big questions that our whole culture is so confused about today.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: Who am I?
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: What's my purpose?
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: Why were we created male and female?
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: How do I find happiness here on earth?
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: How do I find love that satisfies forever?
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: Hey, glad you're with me, I'll be.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: We are back for audience number 86, which John Paul II recorded on July 21st 1982.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: And, like Linda and I say often, john Paul II could have written this yesterday or this morning.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: He saw all of this coming and he wrote his theology of the body, man and woman.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: He created them because he saw what was happening in the sexual revolution.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: He saw the twisting and distortion of the truth and made in the imago Dei and the image and likeness of God, and that we're going somewhere.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: This place had a beginning, this story that we came into, it has a historical dimension where we're sitting in right now and it's going someplace.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: And if we don't keep that all in mind, then we fall into this concupiscence, into this selfishness, into seeing the whole world as something we just want to take into ourselves and grasp, because we don't really don't see the vision of how we're created.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: So, with all of that said, linda, good to see you.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: Good to see you, jack.
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: Great introduction.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: It is both a summary of everything we've been talking about and also kind of like an action-oriented let me get this so I know what to do.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: I think we see so much that's going on in the world.
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: I think our listeners understand, you know.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: There's all the political upheavals, there's the wars overseas they're just just you name it it's happening.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: Our sexuality, the transgender, the total confusion.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: All of these things.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: For a person who maybe isn't experiencing firsthand most of them, you kind of sit back and say what is going on, and John Paul, too, has the answers to what is going on, why it's going on and what we need to do to change it all.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, in a way it's an old story and in a way it's a new story, and you know it's new.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: It's literally new because this is the first time in history, linda, that man meaning men and women have forgotten God, totally forgotten God.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, those of us that grew up in the 60s and the 70s and beyond we almost grew up, and obviously those younger people that came after us have made a disconnection between our desire for God, a desire for eternal life, desire and understanding our own hearts that there's something more.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: We had this story, this echo of the story, written into us.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: I remember as a child, knowing that there was a God out there.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: I didn't understand everything, but that there's a call in my heart to be good.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: Not that I was all the time, obviously, but there was a call, there was an echo in my heart that this story is bigger than me, that I came into a story and it was my job as a young person I remember this distinctly to figure it out, to walk into a bigger story.
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: Now we don't even realize there's a bigger story and we just think it's us and we're supposed to create our own value system.
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: It's all about my feelings now my emotions, totally disconnected from reality of science, reality of natural law, of nature, and so I'll just say one more thing that's been on my mind.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: We see, even in the church now, this attack, twisting and distortion.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: We see even in the church now, this attack, twisting and distortion.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: We have New Ways Ministry, which is a ministry that's always been described as a Catholic outreach, that educates and advocates for DEI, basically LGBTQ plus persons and builds bridges of dialogue within the church and civil society, and in real speak, that just means bringing the culture into the church, which is an acceleration of everything that's been going on since the 1960s, right Since after.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: Vatican.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: II.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: I don't blame Vatican II for the changes, it's the so-called spirit of Vatican II, which New Way's ministry is that spirit.
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: And so, Linda, again, without worrying about my neighbors who are, say, gay, that I can love and I'm called to love, I'm talking about a movement that actually invites the culture, and all the distortions and the twisting and here's my main concern is the stolen innocence of children.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: I really feel it's an injustice what the culture is doing, what the schools are doing to children.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: I see it every day in our apostolate with the John Paul II Renewal Center the anxiousness, the depression, the suicidal tendencies, the unhappiness in young people, and it's amazing.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: And now these people that call themselves Catholic are coming in with the blessings of even Pope Francis, all the way up the ladder.
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: And just a reminder that he just pushed through a fiducial supplicants which gives blessings or allows the church's teachings to be twisted and distorted in a way that we now give blessings to same-sex couples.
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: And so this is not to condemn every single person out there.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: So many people have been raised, abused and used, and without the Gospels, but they have to have a truth.
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: Something has to stand for the truth somewhere, and it was always the Catholic Church.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: You could reject it.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: But now we have actually accepted and not when I say we that the Vatican itself and so many of the bishops and cardinals have accepted just the ways of the world and have thrown basically Jesus' teachings out of the church, and we're going to be unpacking that today.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: What are Jesus' teachings?
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: This chapter is called the Redemption of the Body.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: It's the final conclusion of the whole first part of John Paul's work, and now we're going to be going into the dimensions of the sacrament, which is the whole second part.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: It's really good, but here we have the reality of the redemption of the body to be able to overcome sin and death and how that works within our body.
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: It's so beautiful, linda, and if you reject it, you just you're stuck in this temporal world which is, you know, our end.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: Without God it's just sin and death right, it's our default position.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so many thoughts going through my head as you're speaking there, jack.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: You know, one of the things is we've rejected the truth about who we are in, rejecting of God, and so we're left with this void, if you will, of trying to understand who we are and what it's about.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: What it's about and what we have gravitated to because of that is this description you've given before of building a city of man versus the city of God, and so all that you're seeing I see what New Ways Ministry is trying to do is another iteration, if you will, of the city of man.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: Within the church right of the city of man Within the church, right, yes, and what it has to eliminate is the truth of who we are as we were created, because you can't do it any other way.
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: And further, with the children, and what is being thrust upon them?
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: The stolen innocence.
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: It's not only stolen but it's killed.
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: So you said earlier that story written in our hearts, it's written in each of our hearts, these newborn babies that we have on the farm here.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: You know it's there, and yet the culture, the city of man tries to kill that all the time.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: Kill that story, you know, kill the truth of it.
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: And that's why the Pope said we are in a culture of death, because we really are taking those children's innocence, wiping it out and trying to substitute our city of man, our thoughts, with our feelings being the main tool, I guess you would say.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: And so it all just makes sense.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: What we're seeing is the really bad fruit of having rejected God and the truth of who we are.
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: And again theology of the body is trying to bring us back to that.
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, human dignity comes from theology, by the study of God within the human person.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: Take that out and we don't know who we are anymore.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: We lose our human dignity.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: Not to just berate the point on New Way's ministry, but they are also advocates for abortion.
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: And it doesn't surprise me, because usually what you'll find with all these gender ideologies, um, that are, you know it by their nature, most of them are what they're, um, you know, they're lifeless, they don't bring new life into the world, right?
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: So they're all different, uh, iterations of death.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: You know this culture of death.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: So these unions, um don't bring life.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: It takes a man and a woman to bring new life.
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: So what you see, when I always ask people, when they're pushing these ideologies, I'll always try to get back to the foundation and I'll say let me explain to me where you stand on life, and they'll say you know they'll try to stay away from that.
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: You know, and say what do you mean by life?
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: You know, blah, blah, blah.
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: We want life in us, you know.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: And blah, blah, blah and I said, no, where do you stand on abortion?
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: And I've never had anybody, and I don't know if you have.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: You know, when you're speaking about these things, anybody that's ever been pro-life, it's always pro-choice.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: And you say, well, why is it so important for somebody that's pushing trans ideologies on young people to put them on puberty blockers and render them sterile?
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: Think about that again, what I just said.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: So render them sterile.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: So all these unions are sterile.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: Now we render children sterile and even mutilate their very bodies and then, if you ask them, they will be against the life in the womb or at least the right to murder that child.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: And you see how all this works together.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: Again, ask people that stand up for all these ideologies and the querying of, of of the world, uh, where they stand on life.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: And they're, they're going to be inevitably against life again, this, this culture of, of death yeah, yeah, it's a good way of looking at it.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: You know what is the foundation and I would add then, what is the fruit?
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: What is the fruit of this ideology and these actions, this path that you're taking?
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: And that would be a good discussion for people to see.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: What is it really that I am supporting here?
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: And I think all too often it it's again back to the feelings.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: You know, it's like, oh, I'm so wrapped up in the particular issue of this particular woman and her right that I don't think through any of the other elements of it.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: You see, and I think there are many people out there who are totally confused and have never thought it through all the way.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I would add that you know.
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: So I call it.
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: You know, again, we're a body and a soul.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: Our default position without God, without the Spirit, is sin and death.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: That's just reality, you know.
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: Gk Chesterton would say hey, you know, I always like to start a discussion with the facts.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: You know, let's lay out some facts.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: And there's no more clear, visible fact than the fact of sin, he said.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: It's as clear as a potato sitting on the plate in front of you.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: So let's start out with that sin.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: And the second thing is you're going to die.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: Sin and death.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: That's your default position.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: And these people are grasping and taking in this life because that's all they see.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: They don't even want to talk about those.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: So I call that the 3S highway to nowhere.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: It's the 3S, and what does that mean?
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: So the 3Ss?
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: So self sex and state, self sex and state.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: So when you talk about feelings, which you just did, which is true, it's all about me, my feelings.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: Where does this come from?
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: P-r-i-d-e, p-r-i-d-e, pride, parades, pride.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: I'm this, I got the pride flag out.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: It's all pride and it's in your face, linda.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: And the number one deadly sin is pride.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: So that's self right.
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: So we take it upon ourselves.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: I will be like God.
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: I'll decide what is good and what is evil.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: Then sex.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: The second one is lust now.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: So I have taken the beauty of sexuality and the beauty of the spousal meaning, the body have turned into selfishness and lust, even to the point where, if the child comes out of that, I will destroy that right.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: Mother Teresa, it's a poverty to decide that a child must die so that you can live as you wish.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: And then, finally, I've taken God out and I ask the state now to be my God and to bring laws and to protect me from what From Christians.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: Think about it.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: You know, I want the right to kill my own baby, I want the right to marry LGBTQI SS, plus, you know, a tree if I want to, or you know whatever I want.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's absurd.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: Now, a man can be a woman, a woman can be a man.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: So we're going down.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: We've taken science out, we've taken nature out, we've taken everything out and we should be able to figure this out.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: But I want the state now to come in and protect me.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: And where does that all lead, linda?
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: You know Jesus calls that the wide road, the wide road, and it leads to perdition, it leads to nowhere.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: Or he said very simply that you can take and walk through the narrow gate, and the narrow gate is the truth of who I am and who I reveal myself to be.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: And so the Pope talks about the redemption of the body as being that element of accepting the fulfillment that Christ has already completed in his body the redemption of the body.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: And as followers of Christ, we have the hope that that will be our destiny as well.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: But he also says that to make it happen here in the now, it's that overcoming of that concupiscence so we could take your first S self.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: How do we overcome that pride of I will be the one to decide the right and wrong.
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: I need to develop my moral conscience by learning what did God say about what is right and wrong?
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: And I have to recognize I'm not God and I can begin to work on that pride and work on that first S of self.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: And actually, what theology of the body brings us all the way to the end is that it goes from myself and it's all about me to I give myself away as a gift, like we have said many, many times.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: And Linda, you know just when we were saying that it really starts on your knees with humility.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: Right, it starts with humility, so it's the opposite of pride.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: So.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: I think you know.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: Think about that for a second while you're unpacking this.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: You know you have to be humble, you know, that's what Christ did on the cross he humbled himself and took on our flesh.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's a classical way of trying to grow in holiness.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: If you're looking at the sin, at the vice, in this case pride then you have to look at the corresponding virtue, which is humility.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: So we could take the next one, jack, where sex has deteriorated to lust, you know, in a way, look at that strong connection, because if I'm lusting, I'm thinking about how am I going to satisfy myself?
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: I'm still wallowing in myself right.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: It's the opposite of what you were bringing up just earlier.
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: Maybe you want to now segue into that, which is the spousal meaning of the body right.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: So with that spousal meaning, that's where I understand my dignity and giving myself away.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: Oh, my goodness.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: It's really related to what the Pope talks about the hope of everyday life, in that in our everyday world, opportunities sometimes knock us over with how we can give of ourselves to others, in our real life situation of what's going on with my spouse, my children, my grandchildren, extended family.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: We talked earlier about my son having a health issue.
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: Now I will mention he had a stroke at the age of 48.
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: He's 49 now and a shock in many ways.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: But when we looked at lifestyle and stress and those things, you know, not that shocking.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: And so we look at what is the ramification of my son, the extended family.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: He has four children, a beautiful wife, and what does that mean for all of us?
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: Well, god kind of hit us all in the head with a two by four and said here's an opportunity now for all of you my son in his own humility, accepting his situation as he's working through recovery and all the rest of us seeing.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: You know, how are we giving of ourselves to help him and to help the whole family?
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: You know that's kind of dramatic but we have that in everyday situations all the time, with little bits and pieces of somebody needing a cup of sugar at the most inconvenient times.
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: I mean, we can go for those little things all the way up to the more major traumas that we experience, and it always, always, always comes back to how am I going to respond to this, based on who I am and how is God calling me to give of myself?
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: Now, if I reject all of that, it's because hey, I can't deal with you, I've got my own stuff to worry about.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: I've fallen right back into that pride, right?
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: So I guess my point is this is as practical as we can get to consider, you know, the abstract ideas behind the everyday experiences that we have.
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and think about what we do.
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: You take your example of your son.
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: Let's say, you know, you see so many people in old people's homes now that have had strokes and similar things.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: And what happens now?
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: Now think about this self, sex and then the state.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: So what do we do?
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: We are the younger generation, and many of them boomers too have given up into the socialistic type mentality where we say, well, that's up to the state.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: Why should I give up myself to my spouse, to my son, right, that had a stroke?
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: Why should I help my parents who are getting very old?
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: No, I'll leave it to the state, let the state take care of them.
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: So you see that we can abdicate our responsibility to be the spousal meaning of the body, to be in humility and to be filled with Christ, and then to turn around and say this is my body, given for you.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: Well, we have to take that in.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: Well, where does that power come from?
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: But do you see how that twists everything, linda?
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: Now.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: I abdicate our whole nation to politicians.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: I don't care, I don't care.
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: I need to interrupt, sorry here, but think of where the state takes us.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: What is coming out about euthanasia now in the kids?
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: now there are European countries now I think the Netherlands being one of them, there are others that if a child, if a young person is depressed, they can now ask to be euthanized for depression.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: And so if I was born in this crazy world like this without God, I'd be depressed too.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, you'd be taking me out for sure, because, again, the hope of everyday life is when you're connected to Christ.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: This is a practical thing, linda.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: We all stand in the sense that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, now the fall, came.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: And what is?
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: John Paul points this out in 86.3, right away.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: Christ therefore speaks in the name of that hope that has been implanted in the human heart.
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: This is that echo we were talking about earlier.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: Already in the proto-evangelium the proto-evangelium right where our blessed mother has already crushed his head, we see that, right after the fall, that God is already bringing a plan into fruition and he will bring a woman in right.
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: And then, this brings the son in.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: Thus the redemption of the body has already been completed in Christ.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: So this has been done, we live, and it's so important to point this out to the New Ways ministry and all these people trying to twist and distort these young people.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: John Paul makes it so clear in here, the world is passing by, the world is passing by, and we're in here for a very short time and the world is passing by and the lusts of it.
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: You know, I really like you know the way St Paul says this in Romans 1.
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: And then he says, claiming to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images.
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: Therefore, god gave them up to the lusts of their hearts, to impurity, to dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the creator, who is blessed forever.
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: For this reason, god gave them up to dishonorable passions.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: The women exchanged natural relations for unnatural.
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: The men likewise gave up natural relations with women, were consumed with passions for one another, et cetera, et cetera.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: And it just goes on and on, and on.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: And then he says this leads to all kinds of other wickedness and evil covetousness, malice, envy, murder, strife, deceit, and he goes on and on.
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: Slanders, haters of God, insolent, boastful inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithful, faithless, heartless, ruthless, I mean, you know.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: Think about all that.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: I mean this is nothing new.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: What makes it new, though, linda, is we've totally lost the idea of that our bodies can be redeemed and we've overcome.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: We can overcome concupiscence.
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that is our only hope.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: I was thinking cupisans.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that is our only hope.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: I was thinking everything you just read.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: If one asked, well, what do you mean by city of man?
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: I'd say, okay, let's go right to that passage, and there it is right.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's many others like that.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: You know St John talks about this, you know.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: So, to understand John Paul says that the redemption of the body implies, according to Romans, an authentic theology of the body is necessary.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: We have attempted to build one, appealing first of all to the words of Christ.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: So here's Jesus again takes us into this big picture, to the beginning and the indissolubility of marriage.
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: So where do we get the power right?
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: People, just like in Jesus' times, they said, well, maybe it's better we don't get the power right.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: People, just like in jesus times, they they said, well, maybe it's better we don't get marriage.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: We won't get married.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: Right, if you want to stay together, again, because we don't have the power of christ, you know, we've disassociated ourselves from that power.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: This is what jesus brings us back in.
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: And then the second one.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: He talks about concupiscence and appeals to the human heart, again on the Sermon on the Mount.
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: This is where he says you know, if you even look at a woman lustfully, you know, right, you've already sinned in your own heart.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: You know he's saying let's get to the roots of this.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: Not only do you have to stay together if you get married.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: And why is that, linda, because it's a reflection of the covenant of God.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: God reaches out to you and he's not going to divorce you, right.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: He says oh, you're my people and I want to bring you into this.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: Can you imagine if God would just disown us every time he found something else to do?
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: This is not God's heart yeah.
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: And Jack, it's not that hard to understand if we're looking at the aspect of the indissolubility of marriage, meaning when I speak those wedding vows, this is till the end of our lives together.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: That lusting in the heart that Christ describes for us is a surefire way to cause issues in the marriage and go down that road of dissolving the marriage.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: And it's not really that hard to make that connection or understand it.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: But we look away because again my feelings get in the way and you're not making me happy and I've got to find somebody who makes me happy and all those things.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: So, yes, he's making it so very clear to us.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: And then, finally, his appeal to the resurrection.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: So what are we talking about here?
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: That triptych where we began from the very beginning with original man and the way it was in the beginning, and then where we began from the very beginning with original man and the way it was in the beginning, and then where we are now and where we're headed, our destiny, and it's all come together in this final summary that we're looking at.
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, yes.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: And in his everyday life, john Paul says 86, 7, man again.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: Men and women must draw off the mystery of the redemption of the body, the inspiration and strength to overcome the evil.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: Listen to this to overcome the evil that is dormant in them in the form of the threefold concupiscence.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: So when we rejected God, the threefold concupiscence comes in, as St John talks about right Concupiscence.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: So the first one pride, pride of life, pride of life Right.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: The eyes, the concupiscence of the eyes.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: What does that mean?
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: I look out into the world and I lust after everything.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: This is materialism, consumerism.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: My neighbor has a nicer car than me.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: You know this, that we always want something right.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: And then concupiscence of the flesh, which is what we're really more talking about here today.
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: But they all and I shouldn't say today, but just the last couple minutes when we're talking about concupiscence in marriage right, that I want my wife to be a certain person, a certain thing, this pornographic culture we do.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: We lust after our wives.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: It's not until men and women learn to see the other person with the spousal meaning of the body that I can be kind to my wife, even if she's not going to be kind to me that day.
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: You know what I mean.
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: I mean this is a battle of the heart.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: This is why Jesus talks about this in the Sermon on the Mountain in Matthew 5, 27, 28, because he knows that if you're going to overcome this, you're going to have to allow him into your heart.
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: It took a long time and almost getting divorced myself before I started to really realize this and complaining to God one day in a chapel on my knees, looking up at Jesus on the cross.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: To my left was the statue of Mary, to the right was the statue of Joseph complaining to them about my lack of sex and intimacy.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: And I look up at three virgins and I'm complaining about sex, you know.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: And then you know right away they point to right this eschatological vision.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: No, this all points to bringing God into our heart.
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: This is where we're going, you know, to share in that eternal exchange of love.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: So I said, okay, well, how do you do that?
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: You know, can I really do this?
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: And really, with St Joseph looking at him, had the same dreams, the aspirations, and overcame that and said, no, I become a gift to others, this is our real job in life.
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: So it was just when I started to look at my wife as you know, talk about human dignity again all of a sudden I mean really, I mean all of a sudden I said no, there, you know, god loves her like a child and she's got her own issues and and, and you know what I?
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: I have to get over everything we just talked about and become a gift, and this is this almost uh is like a dagger in in my.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: I mean, it was so painful to overcome, but it took a while.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: It took a long time and finally I started to come around.
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: Well, our Lord took a dagger to his heart too.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: Yes, he did.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: Blood and water flowed to give us the grace.
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: What a moment of grace for you, jack.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: But your heart was already softened, it was already open, it was looking for that, something more that you knew was there, and we're called all of us to do this.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: Let me read the next sentence in 86.7, from where you left off.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: How do we do this?
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: The Pope says man and woman, bound in marriage, must daily undertake the task of the indissoluble union of the covenant they made with each other.
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: Okay, daily, every element of what happens in our day-to-day life as husband and wife is that challenge for us.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: For me, a simple thing when I get annoyed by something that is really no big deal and my son's stroke has helped me see that so many things I was thinking were so important really are not.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: So if this is a little habit that my husband has that is annoying, you know, I can overlook it and I can say, okay, I'm not going to say anything about this and we move on.
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: And I find myself dozens of times a day having to think about these little things, about you know.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: Do I need to address this or can I let it go?
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: Can I pick up after him, whatever it might be.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: Where we don't look at it that way, the resentment begins to build and we say you know, you're just annoying me, I can't take this anymore.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: And we move in that opposite direction and it happens to everybody in relationships, and this becomes very important when you have that thought come in your mind, your first reaction should be to open that up to Christ.
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: This is how.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: So whether you're going to address it or not to your point you said sometimes, should I address it or not, you know?
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: After a while just say, honey, pick up your socks, right, but you can do it in a way.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: Right, If you pray on this, if you offer that up, that means you can still act, but you're going to act it with a different tone and a different manner.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: My mom could say to my father you know you're spilling food on the tray and you know, be careful, or let me help you with that.
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: Or she can say you're such a slob, right, You're such a slob, you do this all the time.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: That's who you are, and so there's different ways to do this and so open those up to prayer, and that's so much what he means by daily take up the task.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: What's the Our Father Give us this day, our daily bread.
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: The other thing that you said how do you do that?
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: And you just said it again and you hear this over and over that we have to unite ourselves to Christ, we have to take Christ on.
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: You said that my heart I mentioned my heart was bleeding and you mentioned Christ.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: And that's exactly what we do.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: We have to take our pain and suffering, unite it to his pain and suffering, these little pains and sufferings that we go through every day, sometimes big ones, and we have to unite that.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: So I have to pick up my cross and follow him.
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: That's exactly what that means, linda.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: That's exactly.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: That was a great analogy and I don't know if you want to address this.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: But going on to 86.7, where he says these tasks and difficulties of human life help us to overcome.
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: Listen to this, and this is exactly what we're talking about evil with good.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's totally that battle evil against good, lies against truth.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: We're we're in the battle, jack, whether we want to be or not, because that's the reality of life after sin.
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: And so we have to decide, you know, are we going to fight the battle or not?
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: Are we going to fall on the side of truth?
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: And I think that goes back to what we said about the foundation and the fruit.
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: You know, if I'm not really happy with things going in my life, I need to think what is the fruit of an action I've been taking?
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: Was it good or was it evil?
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: And we're not talking grand evil, sometimes, just something that is what we would call a venial sin.
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: I just said something that was unkind, didn't need to do that, or I gossiped about somebody that I didn't need to do.
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: Just bring it to consciousness.
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: What is the fruit of my having said this or done that?
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: And I can begin to understand that, okay, I'm in this battle every day and I need to be more conscious of how I'm fighting the battle towards good or evil.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: And if you allow those evils, those small evils, to build up, those venial sins will no longer be venial sins.
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: So how do you overcome evil with good?
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: This is action.
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: So, again, if you get back to that body-soul that I talked about before, the default position being sin and death Now body soul filled, like it should be, with supernatural grace, with the Holy Spirit, who takes what is mine Christ said and gives it to you Well, what is that?
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: This is the redemption of the body, this is to be redeemed on the cross gives that to you Now that, in conjunction, body soul plus the Holy Spirit, plus plus grace, gives you the potential only equals the potential for human freedom, the potential for human flourishing.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: So how do you do that and how do you make it efficacious In the visible world, which is our job?
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: You have to overcome evil with good, and that's what we've been unpacking.
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: You have to do those small good things and over time the light will come into your heart.
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: And now we have to push back against things like this new wave ministry, all these ideologies that are destroying the lives of young people, and say, hey, you know, new wave ministry and Sister Janine Gramick, if you want to destroy your own life, you want to twist and distort christ teachings, then then you know you're free to do that.
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: But you're not free to come into our church and destroy the lives of our children, and that's a big deal and and, and so many people are too afraid to stand up.
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: We have to do that and then finally he in fact, in hope we have been saved.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: The hope of every day shows its power in human works, even in the very movements of the human heart, clearing a path in some sense for the great eschatological hope tied to the redemption of the body.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: So as I walk into the story, as I overcome evil with good, as I do my human works, it changes my heart and clears a path for our eternal life.
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: That's what he's saying there in that sentence.
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's beautiful, isn't it Jack?
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it is beautiful.
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: We need to become whole again.
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: That integration of body and soul is what we need to all work on.
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: Soul is what we need to all work on.
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: If you don't mind, Linda, if you could close this out here by finishing, if you just start to read 8, which is the closing section of this, it kind of sums this up.
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: It's really beautiful.
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: It does Okay when it meaning the redemption of the body penetrates into daily life with the dimension of human morality.
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: The redemption of the body helps man, above all, to discover the whole good in which he achieves the victory over sin and over concupiscence.
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: Christ's words, which flow from the divine depth of the mystery of redemption, allow us to discover and strengthen the bond that exists between the dignity of the human being and the spousal meaning of the body.
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: On the basis of this meaning, they allow us to understand and bring about the mature freedom of the gift which you just talked about, jack which expresses itself in one way in indissoluble marriage and in another, by abstaining from marriage for the kingdom of God.
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: In these different ways, christ fully reveals man to himself and makes his supreme vocation clear.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think we can almost, yeah, I think we can almost end with kind of with that.
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: So what you just said there, you know, here's Christ comes into the world, linda, making a supreme vocation clear, which is what To give my life over to you, right To become a gift to others.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: And there's two ways to do that.
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: I can be married right and make the inner life of the sacrament, this inner life of God, visible in marriage and the family.
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: Or I can skip this marriage, this earthly marriage right, and go straight into the marriage of the kingdom, right into the marriage of.
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: God.
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: And so, again, think about new wave ministry.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: You know they don't see this.
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: This is so clear.
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: Right, here's Jesus comes into the world and that's what our church proclaims.
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: And these people come in with these twisted ideologies.
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: And here's Christ.
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: Very clear Either be married man, woman and able to produce a child right, this is the Trinitarian image in the world.
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: Or if you do choose not to do that, then follow me and give up this earthly right, this earthly marriage, or the dream of union and communion here, and do what?
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: Go right into the marriage of the Lamb, go right into marriage of God.
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: Yet then I turn around and I become a gift to spiritual children.
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: That's what a priest does.
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: That's what Janine Gramick, as a nun, should be doing turning around, being filled with divine life and love and then pouring this out and protecting all of God's children.
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: You know it doesn't take long in Scripture to find a couple of spots where Jesus talks about protecting the little children.
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: And if you don't, it's better than a millstone right be put around your neck and you're dropped to the bottom of the ocean, because you will see in the eschaton what this is going to mean.
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: And it's not going to look pretty, is it?
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: And so to understand the words of christ has its definitive foundation in the mystery of the redemption of the body.
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: How do I know that this is real?
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: you got to step into the story, linda you got to listen to that echo in your heart that is still there, and recognize that battle that we're fighting between good and evil.
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: That line goes right through the human heart, so yeah.
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it does, and we lose hope without that.
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: So God bless you, linda.
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much.
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us everyone.
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: Thanks, jack.
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: Good to be with everybody.
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: That's a lot to digest today, so I might go for a long walk and play this over again, Linda, I think it was really good.
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: And the reality of the power of Christ, the power of Christ Wonderful Thanks Jack.
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: All right, Bye-bye everyone.