Latest / Between the Headlines: Columbus / College Street Collision Scandal Deepens, a Jailed Prosecutor, and a Teen with a Gun

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College Street Collision Scandal Deepens, a Jailed Prosecutor, and a Teen with a Gun · Between the Headlines: Columbus

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: From the opinion page of the Commercial Dispatch.
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: This is Between the Headlines.
• 0:12
  Speaker 2: This is Peter Imes, publisher of the Dispatch.
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: One of our hosts of Between the Headlines is the managing editor of our newsroom.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: Typically we try to keep news and opinions separate, but reporters have a unique insight into the workings of local government and their analysis can be helpful for readers and listeners.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: The dispatch remains committed to journalistic integrity and our reporting will always reflect that.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: And now Between the Headlines.
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: Episode 27 on Between the Headlines.
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: This week, mayor Jones slithers his way into what appears to be the law enforcement scandal of 2025.
• 0:52
  Speaker 3: And clink gets the clank.
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: Courtroom misconduct gets our city prosecutor a field trip to the county pokey.
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: Field trip to the county pokey and prosecutors gather in response to a horrific video of a Caledonia teenager who threatens and beats a 13-year-old with a handgun.
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: The suspect will face a grand jury.
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: Action-packed episode today, for sure.
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: Yes, indeed, but first.
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  Speaker 3: This episode of Between the Headlines is brought to you by Bank First, the locally owned bank that makes decisions right here at home, by people who understand the needs of our community.
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• 2:45
  Speaker 3: You are listening to Between the Headlines with a man who can pass a drug test any day of the week.
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: Just ask the fire ants in his garden.
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: Managing Editor of the Dispatch, mr Zach Player, and my name is David Chisholm.
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: Top headline today the College Street Collision gets uglier by the day.
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: Let's recap oh my gosh.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: So we all know the original reporting in the report, where the police officer reaches speeds of 77 miles an hour in response to a call to the jail to assist another officer, loses control over the railroad tracks and hits this family of five in a car that stopped at 22nd Street South, we've got all kinds of things that happen after that.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: We have claims that we have the victim that was drug tested at the hospital before he was flown out for a brain bleed and could have died.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: And then we have the officer who is not tested at the hospital.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: Ok, so he's tested the next day at the city crime lab.
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: Now we know all of this.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: The sheriff's office report from the investigation that's now complete, notes that CPD canceled the drug test on the officer involved in the crash, which violates city policy.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: City policy saying that you've got to do it within an hour for a city employee involved in a vehicle crash where that city employee could have contributed to the wreck and I say 77.4 over the railroad tracks definitely calls for thinking he might have contributed to the wreck.
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: So with that fresh on everybody's mind, on Monday Mayor Jones releases a statement that, among other things that among other things, talks about a conversation that he and City Attorney Jeff Turnage and Sheriff Eddie Hawkins had at the railroad track the day after the collision when they just happened to bump into each other.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they happened to bump into each other.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: Jones and Turnage say we've got body camera footage that shows that the officer might have had more to do with this than we thought.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, send us that body camera footage.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: It becomes part of the investigation.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: So the implication in Mr Jones's press release on Monday is one we had the investigation reopened, which turns out not to be true.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: But the more egregious thing in this statement that he gives is that Baptist Hospital who could somehow successfully drug test Bankhead?
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: There was confusion over how they were going to drug test the officer.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: Then the officer ends up not getting drug tested.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: Somebody on the Baptist staff that quote usually does it has died.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: There's mass confusion.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: Somehow or another.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: Harris leaves the hospital without this being done.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: A day later Daughtry finds out oh my God, you didn't get your drug test, so let us, Supposedly he finds out.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: So let us take you to the crime lab and get your drug test.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: And oh, it came back clean.
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: Do we know it came back clean at last.
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: I had read uh, the sheriff's office sheriff's office still doesn't have the results of that test okay, so there is a lot to unpack here, um, let's start at the beginning.
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: Um, for those of our listeners who would like a visual uh recap of this story, there's a beautiful timeline of these events in Friday's edition of the Dispatch.
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: I encourage you to look at that.
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: But Thursday's edition, that is Thursday's edition.
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: So the first thing that jumped out at me on that timeline, to be honest, is Bankhead spent 11 days in the hospital.
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: Is Bankhead spent 11 days in the hospital and a brain bleed can be no big of a deal, precautionary, or it can be this, or you could die from it.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: So 11 days highlights how serious this act is.
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: It was very serious, and so serious, in fact, that the sheriff is on the record saying that they were getting ready to convert this into a criminal manslaughter investigation if Bankhead had died.
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: So my first question is on this.
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: It is considered a personnel matter by the city of Columbus Police Department.
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: But to me, Zach, if I look at you and I see that you're driving 70 plus miles an hour down College Street, what's going to happen to you, sir?
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: Well, you know what's going to happen to me, especially if I hit somebody.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: You know what's going to happen to me.
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: So I understand that officers of the law have a special privilege.
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: You know if they're in pursuit, there are things they can do with their lights on that you and I cannot.
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: However, I do know that they are still supposed to take basic precaution to some extent, obey traffic laws and look out for the well-being of the public.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: Yes, a couple of things on this statement from Jones, and that's really.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: Rather than rehashing just the investigation that we talked about at length last week.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: I want to look at this statement from Jones and this is a textbook case of what my father's always called somebody climbing a flagpole to tell a lie when you could tell the truth standing on the ground.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: So the conversation at the railroad tracks with Stephen Jeff Turnage and Eddie Hawkins I can understand all three of them have confirmed that that conversation happened.
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: I can see where the mayor walked away from that, thinking I've gotten this investigation reopened.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: Okay, that's not exactly true, but certainly letting the sheriff know about the body camera footage assisted in that investigation coming to an accurate conclusion.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: So I can see where he left there, thinking okay, they were going one way with this investigation, now they can reopen it.
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: And look at something else.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: I understand why he feels like that happened that way and I don't fault him for his interpretation of that event.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: However, looking at this drug test, even if everything they say happened is true, even if they go there and there's big confusion at Baptist and somebody's died, that's supposed to be doing it and the city doesn't know whatever, and then it's a day later and he's like I never did get drug tested at the hospital and the doctor is like, oh my, that's terrible, we've got to get you drug tested now.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: Even if all of that is true just exactly the way that the mayor's statement says, it is Whose responsibility is it to enforce city policy or ensure that city policy is enforced?
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: Is it Baptists?
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: It's not Baptist policy.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: It's the city's responsibility to make sure city policy is enforced, and Jeff Turnage said it.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: Jeff Turnage said as much.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: Okay, so that's one element of this.
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: A couple of things stick out before we move on.
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: Had Eddie Hawkins not showed up and had that not just come a topic of conversation, would we even be talking about body cam footage?
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: I dare say the city had not given them that body cam footage and hadn't given them any of the rest of the body cam footage that they had requested up until this point.
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: Should have been turned over on day one.
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: It sounds like.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: But again I want to go back to the Baptist thing.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: Baptist is a large conglomerate.
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: It's not the radiator shop that works on city vehicles.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: Baptist wasn't going to take this lying down.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: They weren't just going to accept a theory of shoulder liability in the coming lawsuits just because the city Columbus wanted to look good.
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: They weren't just going to be like, oh okay, we understand.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: So you know we'll be a co-defendant in the lawsuit so you can look good.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's nonsense.
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: So one of two things happened here.
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: If I'm going to release a statement that's going to say Baptist is to blame for this, they've apologized, they're going to go through training and it's just unfortunate, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, then I'm at least going to talk to Baptist before I release that statement.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: So he either did talk to Baptist and then made it all up, or and this is more likely he's taken all of this information secondhand from the police chief, from whomever else, and after he gets that secondhand information, puts out a statement parroting this secondhand information that he has not verified with Baptist, that he has not verified with Baptist.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: So I want to make a point here that.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: Stephen Jones has sat as a Ward 5 councilman last term at that council table and has eviscerated the packet for writing stories about him where they didn't call him to get a comment, where they didn't check with him on the validity of any of the things that they were writing.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: And you know I'm not jumping into whether they did that.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: I'm saying that he has made that accusation of them in public more than once.
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: So he either talked to Baptist and then made the entire thing up, or he took it all secondhand and pushed out a statement without verifying it with Baptist, which is the same thing that he has accused the packet of doing to him before.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: So you know, if a principal is a principal, then it's a principal all the time.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: Meanwhile, baptist comes back and says we don't know what you're talking about.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: First of all, we've had no staffing changes.
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: We don't know who you're talking about has died and we tried to drug test both of them who died.
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: Mr Mayor who died, Give us a name Baptist has no idea what you're talking about, and is on the record saying this who is this nurse that has apparently had a monopoly over that department for so many years?
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: That is the only one capable of carrying a tune in a bucket, medically speaking, or for a police officer because they clearly didn't have any trouble getting one from Bankhead.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: That's another element of this that nobody wants to talk about.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: But Baptist comes back and says, yeah, none of that is true, that didn't happen that way, and it makes you look really, really bad and it's an unforced error.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: It's just silly and it's beneath Stephen's potential and it's beneath his capabilities.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: He should not have done this.
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: But remember, the hallmark of his campaign was the view and narrative of Columbus needed to change.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: His campaign was the view and narrative of Columbus needed to change, and we asked him on this podcast and talked about it on this podcast several times with each other.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: You know, when protecting aesthetics runs afoul of telling the truth and owning the reality of a situation, what are you going to do?
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: And if this is an example of what he's going to do in those cases, it's going to be a long four years.
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: Well, I think you're 100 percent correct.
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: The stinkiest part about this is the erosion of public trust.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: And if you look at Keith Gaskin's campaign, oh my goodness, I can't imagine what he's thinking about this.
• 14:46
  Speaker 3: Because he campaigned and won as an independent candidate on the idea that the people of Columbus want more accountability and more transparency, and right here we have the opposite of transparency.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: We have revisionist history.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: We have revisionist Secondhand information.
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: And yeah, and we also have this unanswered question that everybody who's paying attention to this wants answered, and that is why was he not tested at the hospital?
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: Look at that video Let me throw this in there On the YouTube video, of the officer of the sheriff's office going in there and getting a statement OK, officer Harris has an IV in his arm and I didn't see a bag hanging and I'm nota nurse.
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: Was blood drawn?
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: I mean, could there have been blood drawn?
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: And let me get to the meat of the matter.
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: Ok, who specifically specifically canceled this test and how was it canceled?
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: Did they bring the cup into the room and said no sir, no, ma'am, he doesn't need that, ok, or did Officer Harris say no, I'm good, or I mean, that's what I want to know?
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: No matter what happened, why didn't the city ensure that its own policy was followed?
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: And how do you think that's going to look in the?
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: And what if the guy had died?
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: What if the guy had died and this had converted into a manslaughter investigation and there's no drug test from the hospital, because of whatever reason?
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: Well, whose responsibility was it to make sure that that evidence existed?
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: But see the city.
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: It sounds to me like the hospital was on their way on their way to make it happen that's correct.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: Somebody that is what?
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: yes, somebody proactively went in there and canceled verb actively canceled made this thing disappear that's what that is true, that is obstruction of justice.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm not going to go so far as to say that, but I will say this bankhead, uh, or the sorry the, the, the medical records on harris from the hospital say that CPD canceled it.
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: The sheriff's office final investigative file says that CPD canceled it.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: The only people who are saying that CPD didn't cancel it is Daughtry and Jones, and even if they're right I mean, all signs point to even Baptists just saying, well, we were ready to do it and then we didn't do it.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: So it wasn't our fault that we didn't do it.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: And then all of the records say CPD canceled it.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: You've got Daughtry over there saying, well, I didn't know until the next day, so we had it done immediately the next day.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: No matter what, the city is responsible for making sure that its policies are followed.
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: The city should have an infrastructure for having people in the room that are with hey, it's, it's coming up on an hour.
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: Are we going to?
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: Are we going to take this urine test or not?
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: Because we must so, and that didn't happen.
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: No matter what did happen, that didn't happen.
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it looks a little more proactive than just didn't happen to me.
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: Oh, I agree with you.
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: I'm just making the other argument and saying that even their argument is bad Now for those of us out here, myself included, that are looking to Stephen Jones and the police chief wanting to give them a nice honeymoon phase and give them the benefit of a doubt.
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: It's over now.
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: It's over, it is, and that is most unfortunate and we got to do better.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: And one thing that should be noted here this is an opportunity for the council to show us who they are too, because they haven't really had a voice in this yet.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: They will.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: They'll have the final voice in what happens to these officers.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: They'll have the final voice in how this particular statement misstep is viewed by the legislative body of the city.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: The legislative body of the city, and they have an opportunity here to establish themselves in a very positive way here, or go in lockstep with somebody who will release statements without verification.
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: Well, you have to look out for the people.
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: It's not about looking out for your own, it's about looking out for the people.
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: And I would take this to so far, and you know I kind of dramatize things, but I sincerely feel that this is to the level that that MBI could jump in here and just look at it, give some kind of investigation, because it really stinks and the people that want Columbus to be a more transparent town, they're not getting what they want and it looks bad.
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: One thing that I want to throw in there is that as I reviewed the footage, it occurred to me that Officer Harris was very, very, very relaxed when he was traveling at that high rate of speed and then, when he was lying in that hospital gurney, he was very, very, very not relaxed.
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: His feet were jittering around, and that's just something that I noticed.
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: And you know, look, I want to give the guy a benefit of a doubt, but, in the words of reagan, you've got to trust and verify.
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: I'm not saying something was in his system, but what I am saying is we don't know that nothing was in his system, and therein lies the problem I'm not going to go so far as to even imply that we don't know.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: That's the point.
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: We don't know, we don't know that the test that was done at the crime lab the next day, we don't know what it says.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: Sheriff's officer, that's a problem for me.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: As far as relaxed while you're driving, I mean, that could be overconfidence.
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: That could be a number of things I'm not going to.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to accuse this guy of something, but I will say that the sheriff's office should have the results of the drug test that was allegedly done at the crime lab.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: And if they don't have results of the drug test, that's a problem.
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: You know who's sitting back and saying see, I told you so.
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: You remember the baby boomers who taught sunday school and they said you know, you don't need to be playing these first person shooter games and these uh, let's say, grand theft auto, yeah, just saying they're like, yeah, you should have laid off of that stuff because that's what I know well not on college played is it ever play?
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: Is it too soon?
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: Sorry, mr Bankhead, I hope that didn't hit too close to home.
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: Oh man You're listening to Between the Headline Next up.
• 21:47
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• 22:27
  Speaker 3: So, zach, I was not there to witness the confrontation of sorts between city prosecutor Klink Scales and the Honorable Gary Goodwin who was presiding in the courtroom at the time that this happened, but it was apparently quite ugly and it ended in the what's the word?
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: The suspension of the.
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: Help me out.
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: He recessed the court and then went home, thought about it and said you know, she needs to go to jail for a day and pay a fine.
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: And so here we are.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: All right.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: So this spawned from an argument I think the argument was 24th of July between Nicole Klinkscales, the city prosecutor, and a defense attorney on a particular case, rod Ray.
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: They got in an argument over whether they were going to proceed with the case.
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: It got into a shouting match where they were interrupting each other.
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: This is according to Gary Goodwin's version of events, which is in a court order signed by him which will come up in a moment.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: But they get in this argument.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: The judge calls them down, tells them to quit interrupting each other, tells them that they owe an apology to the court.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: Rod Ray complies immediately and just reading Gary Goodwin's court order or the contempt order where he's going through the narrative of what happened, it looks like what Nicole Klinkscales did sort of devolved into like a scene from the movie Idiocracy, like, have you seen that movie?
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: In the court scene from that movie?
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: Well, I was thinking more liar, liar well, she evidently uh yells at the judge, mutters unintelligibly to herself and to some police around, and then starts talking to the gallery, turning her back on the judge and saying I have nothing to apologize for nothing, I'm not gonna apologize for anything, or whatever well, that's, hollywood, though right and gets gaveled down and the court went into recess.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: A week later he came in and sentenced her to a day in jail a hundred dollar fine.
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: She's to serve that day in jail, barring an appeal on september third.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: So I'll be looking for that booking shot on septemberrd.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: Okay, oh, another part of this is that she's applied to return to the bench as a city judge.
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: She used to be a city judge and she's applied to return to the bench as a city judge and before we proceed, it's worth noting that this is not the first time that she's got out of hand.
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: Um, she's been disciplined in the past, if I recall the state of Mississippi.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, all right, let's talk about that.
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: At the recommendation of the Commission on Judicial Performance, she was reprimanded by the state for misconduct in 2016.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: This is misconduct from when she was a city judge.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: She did a variety of things, among them throw people, direct people involuntarily into a drug court program that was supposed to be voluntary, and then you know making false statements or misleading statements to the newspaper about criminal cases where she was the defendant.
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: It was just a whole lot of things, there was also some political endorsements on Facebook, oh yeah political endorsements on Facebook.
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: There was just a long list of things that she oh yeah political endorsements on Facebook.
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: There was just a long list of things that she got reprimanded for in public by the state.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: Why are we even talking about her returning to the bench?
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: And why is she even the city prosecutor?
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: That continues to confuse me.
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: And okay, so her performance in the courtroom on the day in question.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: It's egregious, if you take Judge Goodwin at his word.
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: Now she refutes his version of events, and this is in an email that she sent to me.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: Generally, how arguments go Right, she refutes this version of events multiple fronts.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: She claims that she never got a chance to apologize.
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: She claims that she's being bullied.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: She claims that she's going to file something with the Commission on Judicial Performance against Gary Goodwin and that she's going to file all of these things with the city that she has yet to file.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: And that's where the rubber meets the road here.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: She hasn't filed anything with the city.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: She's just talking about it.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: She's just talking about her version of events.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: City, she's just talking about it.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: She's just talking about her version of events.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: Meanwhile, Goodwin's version it's on court documents bearing his signature.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: He's legally accountable for their efficacy and their accuracy, and so I want you to think about the coordination that he would have to undertake to safely lie about this.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: You know there's a court reporter in there.
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and it only takes one or two letters testamentary from people that were in the room Right right, and that's another one of my points.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: So you've got to get the court reporter to, who already has to do plenty of work doing the right version of it to falsify, or get a second version, cook the books if you will.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: So you've got to have her doing that or the court reporter, whoever it was doing that.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: Um, and then you have to sell it with this room full of witnesses, and I just don't think that happened.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: If, if goodwin coordinated with a court reporter to falsify the history that unfolded in a room full of witnesses, I'll eat my hat.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: When all you've got is your claims that you're not willing to back up with your signature, and it's refuting a court order by a judge that has his signature, I'm going with the guy who's put himself out there and his name out there and made it into a public document.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: That's who I'm going with on that, especially when the other person has the reputation that Nicole Klinkscales has.
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: I think your hat is perfectly safe.
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: I've talked about this before with you and I've said that we're starting to lose a sense of decorum as a society.
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: You know, even within our city council I don't like when they show up to work wearing jogging pants.
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: You know there's that kind of thing.
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: This mentality for this particular story has made its way into the courtroom and, whether you like it or not, court itself is not a democracy.
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: When you're in that room it is a dictatorship.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: When the judge tells you to apologize, you apologize.
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: You better do that.
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: And so if Ms Klinkscales wanted to write a complaint to the Commission on Judicial Performance, she should have done that after the fact and just said hey, she says she's still going to.
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: We'll see.
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean, but maybe apologize under your breath, get that over with and and then talk to the bar and if you're real fancy about it and really uptight about it, the Mississippi Supreme Court will take cases for a hefty fee, I mean.
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: So there's avenues that are more appropriate than just sounding off within the court, where people are looking for a sense of stability.
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: So that's very, very disappointed.
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: And you know, as far as Judge Goodwin goes, he could have put her in jail that day.
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: He could have said there's the door, bailiff, take her out of here.
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: But he didn't do that.
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: He put it in recess, he thought about it, and that tells me that this was not just some emotional response.
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: This was a thought out deal.
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: And you know, officers, I'm sorry, you're fine and, and, and you know, I think she just I hope I don't have to stand before this lady, but she probably, you know, just needs to take a note here, eat lunch in the cafeteria when she gets there and and just learn from it, learn what people are going through, and you know we all have humbling life lessons.
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: I think this is one of them.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: Now she may not have to serve that day in jail if she appeals successfully to circuit court.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: It may be a different day, or she may get the thing thrown out, and that's her right and she can do that.
• 30:50
  Speaker 3: And I imagine she will still have to pay court cost if she does that Right.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: Yes, probably so.
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: It's a punishment nonetheless.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: And she's going to have to prove in that circumstance to the circuit court that she didn't have to follow the judge's order to apologize for some reason.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: This is just piggybacking off the point that you made.
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: Officers of the court have certain expectations Officers of the court, especially, who are being paid by the taxpayer.
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: This is a city employee who doesn't feel like any of those rules apply to her when she doesn't like it.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: In Goodwin's narrative of what happened, he adds in there that this is a pattern, that she routinely turns her back to the judge and appeals to the gallery.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's like if you feel like that's an appropriate thing to do in a courtroom, then you don't need to be in a position where you are an officer of the court If you're going to thumb your nose at it.
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: Too much Matt Locke or Perry Mason or something.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: When you're going to thumb your nose at just general court procedure when it suits you.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: You don't need to have that job and you certainly don't need to be a judge.
• 32:05
  Speaker 3: Let me ask you a question about Jones's statement about this.
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: This was something Jones our mayor who, by the way, has one hundred and forty five days left to get that amphitheater finished Just saying.
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: He says, quote the next judge will be in line with the changes I want to make.
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: I'm starting to get the impression that Mayor Jones is a meddlesome mayor, head of the city, but when he starts really sticking his neck out there into judicial affairs and, as we talked about earlier, covering for the police department, this is a problem, Zach.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: Well, as mayor, it's his right to make recommendations for personnel.
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: He's going to be the one making the recommendation for who is appointed judge and for him to want that person to be in line with his vision for that court.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: I you know, I don't think that's any different than something Keith would say, or Robert would say, or anybody would say the thing that bugs me is he said that he does.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: he's not sure that Nicole Klinkscales did anything wrong here, that he doesn't think that her behavior should affect her job as city prosecutor, that he doesn't think that her behavior should affect her job as city prosecutor and he doesn't think it's disqualifying for city judge.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: And I mean, okay, so this isn't disqualifying for city judge.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: If her previous reprimand by the state isn't disqualifying for city judge, what does she have to do to be disqualified to be a city judge?
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: She has to absolutely piss off the powers that be to the point that they abandon her, which apparently is a very high bar, and I do not know that I could ever reach that bar.
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: All right, so that's that.
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: Next we'll talk about the Caledonia team that brandishes a gun and proceeds to beat a 13-year-old with it and creates this horrific video.
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: Everybody's been talking about it.
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: Stay tuned.
• 34:07
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• 34:24
  Speaker 4: The Good for Business podcast features interviews, tips and tricks from owners, operators and innovators.
• 34:29
  Speaker 4: Hear the inspiring stories of growth and life lessons from guests in Mississippi and around the world Hosted by entrepreneur, fundraiser and real estate broker Colin Krieger.
• 34:38
  Speaker 4: The podcast is based right here in the Golden Triangle community.
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: Okay, next we're going to talk about that video, One of the most upsetting things that I've seen in a very long time.
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's right on up there with the George Floyd deal and just take it away, Zach.
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: What are we up against here?
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: I mean you've got a 16-year-old white kid that goes up and in this 13-year-old black kid's driveway videos himself pointing a gun at him, threatening him, calling him racial slurs at him, threatening him calling him racial slurs, telling him that he's doing all this because I know you've been talking to my girl or whatever do jumping jacks just a real dehumanizing experience for this 13-year-old.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: Just really sad and really unacceptable.
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: And the fact that this has become a topic of discussion, I think very, very obvious reasons why it has.
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: Well, it sets us back, you know, for those of us who are in the fight to, you know, make race relations better and and make everybody feel that they have a sense of equality.
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: This right here.
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: It's a demonstration of why the minorities continue to fight and continue to talk about this because of instances just like this.
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: Something in that child that pointed the gun at this other child made him feel entitled to do this, made him feel empowered to do this, and that comes from somewhere, and I think that's the greater conversation we've been talking about.
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: I do want to say this for the parents of the perpetrator here Good on them for responding the way that they have, or at least the way that they've seemed to.
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: You know they found out about it.
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: They called the police.
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: They found the gun in the house.
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: You know they made sure he got arrested and they've made sure he stayed in juvie until he's ready to get out.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: And you know whatever happened before this point.
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, their response to it has been responsible, or at least so it seems, and and and again.
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: Good on them for that again.
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: Good on them for that.
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: Um well, could you imagine being your dad, being the parent, and and then seeing this video of your own offspring and then having to make that phone call and say, yeah, he's here.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah and you know, I've told my child I've got three children and I've told them all that if they ever commit a crime, especially one that dehumanizes someone, I ain't bonding them out.
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: But you know, I say that you don't know what you're going to actually do until you're faced with a tough situation like this.
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: These parents were faced with a situation like this and they responded, you know, seemingly responsibly to it.
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: Well, let me lighten the mood for just a second and bring up a contrast.
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: Okay, on the Internet about two years ago, and this kind of came to mind when I first saw this video do you remember the Twisted Tea guy?
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: There was this kid that was in a store store and he was talking smack to a big black guy and, uh, the the big black guy had enough of it and he picked up a twisted tea and he delivered that tea to the guy's noggin and it was a beautiful um video and the kid deserved it.
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: He did, uh.
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: The difference here is that, um, you know, even though, uh, on a similar level, it it felt like this kid's elevator just did not go all up to the top.
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: Okay, there's, which kid are you talking about?
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: The perpetrator, the perpetrator, uh, here, um, but the difference is this wasn't just talking smack, this was an assault and this was a threat.
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: It was on a life and I'll tell you if, um, if that, we'll call him the victim.
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: If his mother was there, um you know, she would have been in the right to shoot him, to put him down you know, so you know, locking him up is part for his safety.
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: I mean, this is, this is about as rough and ugly as it gets.
• 39:25
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean.
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: OK, what happens next?
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: Ok, so first of all, I just want to say and maybe this isn't the appropriate thing to say, but when are we appropriate If you're a 16 year old and you're this messed up about a 13 year old talking to your girl.
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: I think that's a you problem, buddy.
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: No question.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: And secondly, I mean I appreciate the part of the outrage here is that he's going through youth court.
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: As of right now he's going through youth court.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: It's being treated as a misdemeanor.
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: The DA, and you know sheriff's office, is talking about where this is going to be presented toa grand jury and the grand jury will decide whether it's upgraded to a felony.
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: But and they've done a good job and I appreciate the explanation of why they're okay, so we take this step, we take this step, we've got to, we've got to prove bodily harm.
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: It doesn't reach a felony unless but you know, the grand jury will ultimately decide this.
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: Well, it's unsatisfying.
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: If the rolls would have been reversed, let's be honest if the rolls would have been reversed here, would this have gone the same way?
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure.
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: If the rolls were reversed here and it was the black kid pointing the gun at the white kid in his driveway, that he wouldn't have got popped with a felony that day and booked as an adult in the adult detention center.
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: I'm just not sure and I'm going to tell you first of all I know you're going.
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: Where do I get that from?
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: You know, first of all, if you think the justice system in Mississippi deals fairly and equitably with black defendants.
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: You've got to be getting your history from books written by Mike Huckabee, like just period.
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: I like Mike Huckabee though 60%, or more than 60%, of the prison population in Mississippi is black, even though less than 40% of the state's population is.
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: And I've got another example that hits a little closer to home.
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: And to be fair to Eddie Hawkins in this case, this was not his sheriff's department that did this.
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: But you may remember, 10 years ago there was a black athlete at New Hope High School.
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: He played football.
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: He was an honor roll student.
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: He, you know, generally stayed out of trouble.
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: He was in a relationship with a girl a little younger than him and there was some dissatisfaction over this.
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: So the sheriff's office goes and deputies arrest him in front of his classmates, perp walking through the hallway, and put him in a cop car.
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: He's got a mugshot, he's accused of statutory rape, he's expelled from school and he doesn't get to attend his graduation.
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: This happened the last semester of his senior year.
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: Well, you say okay.
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: Well, what of it?
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: Well, there was a problem.
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: The deputies that made the arrest and the judge that signed the warrant forgot to do the math before they signed it.
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: And before they did it it didn't meet it.
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: There needed to be a 36 month gap for it to qualify age wise between the two of them for it to qualify for statutory rape and it did not meet that requirement.
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: They didn't count to 36 before they did this to this person.
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: Now you know I may be, you may think I'm out of line here, but what could possibly have distracted the judge and the deputies and the justice system in whole from being able to temporarily being able to count to 36.
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: Wonder what that possibly could have been.
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: Well, I know where you're headed, but I think you're fine there.
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: I can't speak to 10 years ago.
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: I'll speak to today the sheriff's office.
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: They had the job of getting this kid locked up.
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: Okay, get him away and then let the grand jury decide.
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: Now, if you were to say, let's put the felony stuff on the front end of it, I'm okay and I agree with that.
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: I mean, and that's fine.
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: And if they want to follow I mean, following the law is following the law and explaining it They've done a good job with that, I don't have a problem with it.
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: I just think that the argument from the other side here is they don't believe that this would have happened the same way if the roles would have been reversed, and I'm not sure it would have.
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: And I think that their demonstration is going to possibly beautifully translate that point or make that point.
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: Well, I may join them Saturday.
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: I mean, honestly, it's so disheartening and folks like myself, we often don't know what to do.
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: But I look at this and I know that the state of Mississippi has a statute enacted in 1994.
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: Statute enacted in 1994.
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: This is a hate crime.
• 44:35
  Speaker 3: I think it became a hate crime when he told the kid to do the jumping jacks.
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: That told you what was going on here and it is what it is.
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: And if you don't enforce the hate crime laws, why have them on the books?
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: I agree 100%.
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: What do you think about this demonstration that they're planning the family of the victim?
• 44:56
  Speaker 3: I think that's fine, like I said, I may join in on it, but let's be careful with the gun rhetoric, because there was some talk about, you know, open carry and that kind of stuff.
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: Let's please, please, stay the friendly city and behave, make our point known.
• 45:13
  Speaker 3: That's perfectly fine, but let's not get out of hand with this, because otherwise we turn an incident which is a crime and a horrible thing into something that could potentially be much, much worse.
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: So that's my thought on that.
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: Before I leave the segment, though, I want to point out that I did not like the fact that this kid had tattoos of the cross of Jesus Christ on his arm.
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: You know, you think about, and I know this is religious talk to some of our listeners, but to me that's the Lord's name being taken in vain in a very, very ugly way.
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: That kid's just my opinion here not worthy to bear the symbol of the Lord on his arm, doing something so horrible as that.
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: Well, look, so we talked about you know this demonstration?
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: I think the and the.
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: So we talked about you know this demonstration?
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: I think that.
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: And the guns make me nervous too.
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: Open carry laws just generally make me nervous, I'll be real honest with you.
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: But the disparity in how certain things are viewed, I think may be what this demonstration is trying to point out, and with the open carry rhetoric it's sort of a brilliant, if not unsettling, currency to do it.
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: So let's do a word association exercise.
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: I don't want the name of the person, I just want you to think I'm going to get in trouble here the first person that you think of when I say open carry laws, don't name them Slim Smith, oh God.
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: Really no.
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: Randy Robles say open carry laws, don't name them slim smith, oh god really no, uh, randy robles, okay, all right.
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: Well, I didn't want you to name them, but sorry, see, I've already got in trouble, all right.
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: So let's back up first person that you think of.
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: Don't name them.
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: But when I say open carry laws, now you've got your person.
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: Is that person black?
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: He is not.
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: So I mean I can very well see that the point they're making with that open carry stuff is that that has been the currency of that sort of been, you know, white currency in the exercise of citizenship.
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: Well, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: So, let's see, I get nervous.
• 47:30
  Speaker 3: When there's a protest and there's white folks carrying it, I mean, oh, I get very nervous under all of those circumstances.
• 47:37
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying, and don't get me wrong, I'm saying that yeah, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: I'm very, very pro Second Amendment and I'm fine with open carry.
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: But when you have a big event with a lot of people, I mean let's just— Emotions and guns don't mix well.
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: They don't mix well.
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: And there's a reason, when there's a game at Davis Wade Stadium, that they make people go through the metal detectors.
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: Because when you've got that many people there can be problems Main Street.
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: Would the police and the sheriff's office treat that the same way that they will treat this demonstration?
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: It's a fair question and we will see.
• 48:38
  Speaker 3: We'll find out on Saturday.
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: Just in closing, though, I think it comes back to the enhanced penalties that could potentially become of this, because you know, I told you that looks like a hate crime.
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: If this isn't a felony, I don't know what is, but I'm not a lawyer.
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: Okay, well, that is that, and before we close the show, Zach, three things we need to know this week.
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: All right City Council on Tuesday appointed Robert G Cooper, owner of RGC Realty, to the Columbus Redevelopment Authority.
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: He replaces Jason Spears who resigned in June, before taking the Ward 6 council seat.
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: Number two, the electric bills in Columbus will rise 2% as of October 1st if the Tennessee Valley Authority approves a request from Columbus Light and Water.
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: Water bills could also go up in January, according to General Manager Angela Verdell, and those conversations on the water bills will start at this month's CLW board meeting.
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: All right, the last thing incumbent Kabir Kareem trouts challenger Pierre Beard Tuesday to keep the District 41 House seat.
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: He took almost 84 percent of the vote in the special election primary and has no opponent in November.
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: Let's talk about that last one.
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: All right.
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: 1309 to 248.
• 49:54
  Speaker 3: That is a woodshed performance.
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: It's decisive, yeah, and I suppose that Kareem's arrest record was more desirable than Beard's.
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: Okay, no response there.
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: Fair enough.
• 50:14
  Speaker 3: I think this needs to be for Mr Beard, who I do have respect for.
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: Likewise A time of reflection and focusing on his family.
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: You know he said on the record he's got a lot of folks living out there.
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: He said on the record that he's had some health problems.
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: So I hope that he takes a good four, six, ten years and just focus on his kids, because you don't get that time back.
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: And so well wishes to him personally from David Chisholm.
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: All right, so that's that Now from David Chisholm.
• 50:49
  Speaker 3: All right, so that's that.
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: Now let's look at the mail.
• 50:53
  Speaker 3: Amy from Steens writes in who exactly issued the order to cancel Harris's drug test at the hospital?
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: He was already hooked up on an IV line, so it would have been nothing for an additional venal puncture.
• 51:06
  Speaker 3: There's no reason for it to be postponed and processed.
• 51:10
  Speaker 3: Quote in-house.
• 51:12
  Speaker 3: Aj Budgins writes in I just went and filed a formal complaint on one officer doing 100 miles per hour on Main Street on Monday had it happened yesterday, but was not able to get him on camera today.
• 51:27
  Speaker 3: They were not so lucky.
• 51:28
  Speaker 3: This should make national news what they are doing.
• 51:33
  Speaker 3: And Leroy Lawler writes in hey, leroy, yeah, if the mayor doesn't nip it in the bud, this is the beginning of the downfall of the law enforcement in the city.
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: Thank God for the sheriff.
• 51:45
  Speaker 3: God bless America.
• 51:48
  Speaker 3: He didn't say that, but he did say that somehow, I think.
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: Thank you for listening, leroy.
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: We appreciate you and that'll do it.
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: We want to thank all of you for joining us today.
• 51:59
  Speaker 3: Be sure to follow the show and share our show.
• 52:02
  Speaker 3: Help us get the word out and make our hometown a better place.
• 52:06
  Speaker 3: As always, send us your comments tips at cdispatchcom.
• 52:09
  Speaker 3: You can also follow me on Facebook or X at dchism00 and leave a public comment, signing off until next week from Catfish Alley Studio in historic downtown Columbus.
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: Your host has been Zach Player and I am David Chisholm.
• 52:25
  Speaker 3: Y'all keep it friendly and we'll keep it real.
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: Opinions expressed on this show are those of the speakers and not necessarily those of the Commercial Dispatch.