Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #624 The Right One with Dr Andrew Leech

Transcript

#624 The Right One with Dr Andrew Leech · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers Now.
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: This month is Mental Health Awareness Months. Good it's doctor
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: Justin Coilson here. And one of the things that has
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: been coming through our emails podcasts at Happy Families dot
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: com dotu and is a regular question that I get
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: from parents who are stressed out, tired out, exhausted, burned
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: out and worrying about their kids or their own mental
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: health is.
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  Speaker 3: How do I get help?
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  Speaker 2: It's really hard to get into a doctor. Getting into
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  Speaker 2: a psychologist is almost impossible, and even when you can
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: get in, the costs are enormous. How do we get
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  Speaker 2: the help that we need? All this month, as part
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  Speaker 2: of Mental Health Awareness Month, Kylie and I have been
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: talking about topics related to our kids and ourselves and
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: mental health. And we've had a handful of really interesting
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: conversations with experts who can guide this conversation.
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: Around mental health.
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  Speaker 2: But today a discussion with a GP from WA, a
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: man by the name of Andrew Leach. Andrew Leach is
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  Speaker 2: a GP, a general practitioner in Perth, Western Australia. He's
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  Speaker 2: been a GP for ten years and his specialty focus
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  Speaker 2: is consulting with families around issues of family health and
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  Speaker 2: mental health. It's been working with Emerging Minds upskilling GPS
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  Speaker 2: in this area and also the Royal Australian College of
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  Speaker 2: General Practitioners the RACGP, and he joins me now on
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  Speaker 2: the Happy Families podcast. Andrew, it's so good to talk
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  Speaker 2: to you. Thanks for taking some time out of your
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  Speaker 2: busy schedule to help us out with some mental health
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  Speaker 2: challenges for families.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: Thanks Justin, It's great to be here and be part
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: of this podcast series.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: There's a handful of questions that I want to approach
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: with all once, so I'm going to try and curb
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: my enthusiasm and just ask them one at a time.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: Let's say I'm struggling with my own mental health, or
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: I have a child and I'm pretty sure there's something
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: that's just not developmentally where it is supposed to be.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: Maybe I've got some concerns about ADHD or autism or
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: oppositional behavior. How do I get the help that I need?
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  Speaker 2: The advice consistently is go talk to your GP, and
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  Speaker 2: your GP will tell you what to do. Is that
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  Speaker 2: the right thing for me to be saying? And if
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  Speaker 2: that's the case. What happens when somebody gets in to
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  Speaker 2: see you.
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  Speaker 3: It is the right thing to be saying, justin.
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  Speaker 1: But it's just not as simple as that, is it,
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  Speaker 1: because it is so hard to get the GP to
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  Speaker 1: see you in the first place. I guess gps are
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  Speaker 1: all very busy now, and the GP that you need
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  Speaker 1: to listen to, so the GP that sort of has
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: that understanding of what you might be going through. You know,
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  Speaker 1: we all have different interests in general practice, and I know,
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  Speaker 1: you know, whilst I'm really passionate about this area, there'll
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: be other gps that are more interested in skin or
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  Speaker 1: you know, women's health or men's health and might not
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  Speaker 1: be as attuned into what ADHD or autism is. So
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: it's getting that first point of call you're finding. That
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  Speaker 1: first sort of step is finding the right GP for
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  Speaker 1: you and your family. I don't think gps would be
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  Speaker 1: offended by you trying a couple just to get the
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  Speaker 1: right one for you and your family often helps if
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  Speaker 1: the GP does have children themselves as well, and that's
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  Speaker 1: not that's a very generalized statement, but I know the
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  Speaker 1: gps have got children often have that sort of bit
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  Speaker 1: of life experience behind them where they've had those challenges
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  Speaker 1: with parenting, where they've seen it and they know the
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  Speaker 1: developmental milestones and they and they've to me that was
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  Speaker 1: such a big education to have that.
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  Speaker 3: Parenting life background.
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  Speaker 1: But it's not just that. You know, some gps have
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  Speaker 1: done extra training in pediatrics and they might have done
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  Speaker 1: a child health diploma, and that can be a bit
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  Speaker 1: of a clue that they have an interest and that
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  Speaker 1: they usually put that on their website, on the clinic website.
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  Speaker 1: So it is challenging, it's not easy. And often the
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  Speaker 1: ones that are good at pediatrics or good at mental health.
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  Speaker 3: Are the busiest ones as well. They're the ones that
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  Speaker 3: are hard to get into because a lot of their.
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  Speaker 1: Consults are longer and they then sort of have a
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  Speaker 1: longer wait time to get in. But you know, it's
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  Speaker 1: that's that's the system that we have to deal with.
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  Speaker 1: What I always suggest to parents is right down your concerns.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: So do a little bit of background work before you
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  Speaker 1: come in. Write down what's going on for you. It's
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  Speaker 1: really good for parents to list the problems send them
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  Speaker 1: into the doctor before you go in, and that way
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  Speaker 1: we have a bit of a heads up as to
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  Speaker 1: what might be going on. The parent then has an
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  Speaker 1: opportunity to outline their concerns without the child in front
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  Speaker 1: of them. So there might be things they really don't
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  Speaker 1: want to mention in front of the child, and we
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  Speaker 1: don't want the child to feel this is all about
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  Speaker 1: the problems that they're having. We want the child to
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  Speaker 1: feel there might be some challenges, and I'm very open
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  Speaker 1: with talking with children about some of the challenges, but
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  Speaker 1: some of these issues are far more complex than what
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  Speaker 1: the child needs to know.
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  Speaker 3: So list the.
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  Speaker 1: Problems send them in. That might prompt the GP to say, look,
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  Speaker 1: you need to come in earlier. The other thing with
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  Speaker 1: finding a GP is find the GP.
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  Speaker 3: That likes to include the child in this process.
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  Speaker 1: I'm really big on training gps to make sure the
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  Speaker 1: child is included, and that means they are the center
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  Speaker 1: of the console.
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  Speaker 3: They are the patient.
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  Speaker 1: That's the reason that the parent is in is because
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  Speaker 1: of their child, the concerns about their child. So quite
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  Speaker 1: often I'll spend the first ten minutes just talking to
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  Speaker 1: the child. And this is obviously age dependent, depends on
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  Speaker 1: how shy the child is when they come in.
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  Speaker 3: It might take a lot of report building.
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  Speaker 1: We often just talk about the fun stuff first, what
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  Speaker 1: they like, their interests, their school friends, you know, what
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  Speaker 1: they play outside school. But it takes that extra effort
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  Speaker 1: for us, but it is worthwhile doing, is including the child,
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  Speaker 1: because then when you've opened up that rapport, you can
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  Speaker 1: delve into some of the deeper, more useful information. Quite
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  Speaker 1: often when we're just talking about those general things as well,
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  Speaker 1: like friendships, like school, we hear clues about what might
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  Speaker 1: be going on that are difficult for the child. You know,
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  Speaker 1: I don't have any friends, or I don't like school.
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  Speaker 3: I hate school. That's a good clue for me. You know,
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  Speaker 3: why do you hate school? What's going on?
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  Speaker 1: What's going on at school that you hate about it?
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  Speaker 1: So it's just that chit chat, that early report, or
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: hearing a bit about the journey and listening the GP
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  Speaker 1: who listens to the parent is such a good GP.
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  Speaker 3: It's just listening the feedback. I gad is.
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  Speaker 1: All I wanted was just to let all this information out, just.
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  Speaker 3: To let it off my chest.
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  Speaker 1: I've really struggled for so long and not really been
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  Speaker 1: able to know who to talk to.
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  Speaker 2: So as you're answering that question and sharing those ideas,
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  Speaker 2: I'm imagining a lot of parents are going, yeah, my
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  Speaker 2: GP's never done anything like that. Let me ask you
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  Speaker 2: a provocative question around this topic, Andrew, I would imagine
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  Speaker 2: that from time to time, maybe even frequently, as you're
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: talking with the parent, talking with the child, trying to
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  Speaker 2: understand really what's at the heart of the challenge, you
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  Speaker 2: might feel you might discover that the child would probably
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: be doing better if there was more effective parenting happening.
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  Speaker 2: That is, the child probably doesn't have autism, probably doesn't
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  Speaker 2: have ADHD, probably isn't dealing with anything that's diagnosable.
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  Speaker 3: What we're really dealing with.
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  Speaker 2: Is a parenting issue. How do you communicate that with
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  Speaker 2: a parent and in a way that makes them responsive
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  Speaker 2: and receptive to you actually continuing to work with them
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  Speaker 2: and guide them.
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  Speaker 1: First of all, holding no judgment and letting parents know
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  Speaker 1: there is no perfect way to parent and that we
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  Speaker 1: all make mistakes. And I love normalizing it. In fact,
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  Speaker 1: I love bringing in some of my own examples of
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  Speaker 1: when I've had a difficult moment with my daughter. You
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  Speaker 1: know how I sometimes get overwhelmed, and how I sometimes
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  Speaker 1: snap and react, And it's human. It's a very it
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  Speaker 1: can be very intense at home. Sometimes it can be emotional,
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  Speaker 1: and I think just normalizing it and also letting parents
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  Speaker 1: know I'm seeing this every day. I'm seeing parents who
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  Speaker 1: are struggling and having those moments of you know, despair
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  Speaker 1: on a daily basis, you are not alone. And then
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  Speaker 1: also I like to ask, in sort of a general way,
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  Speaker 1: how do you react when your daughter or child's is screaming, angry, agitated,
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  Speaker 1: melting down in the shops or at home or school.
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  Speaker 3: How do you react?
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  Speaker 1: I just want to know what sort of way you
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  Speaker 1: deal with that, and that then helps me to understand
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  Speaker 1: is that an effective method or can we work on
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  Speaker 1: trying some other strategies. Now, gps are not typically trained
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  Speaker 1: in parenting psychology, you know that sort of CBT cognitive
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  Speaker 1: behavior therapy, but I think we can offer some pearls
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  Speaker 1: and little tips and I think we're pretty good at
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  Speaker 1: picking up when things aren't going well. And that's the
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  Speaker 1: other thing is we often know the whole family. So
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  Speaker 1: we often then see dad, or we see Mum, or
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  Speaker 1: we see the siblings, the grandparents even and we get
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  Speaker 1: to know that whole family unit, which is really helpful
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  Speaker 1: because we know if Mum has some mental health challenges,
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  Speaker 1: and we know if dad's really struggling with his emotions,
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  Speaker 1: or he's working away a lot, and you know the
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  Speaker 1: challenges that brings. So we can then start to help
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  Speaker 1: the family as a whole and follow them up over time.
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  Speaker 2: Andrew, when you sit down with a parent, you discover
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  Speaker 2: that there is definitely some additional assistance and support required.
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  Speaker 3: What's the process?
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  Speaker 2: So let's say we're talking to a family and you
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  Speaker 2: think this kid definitely needs to have some diagnostics carried out,
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  Speaker 2: or this parent needs a level of support for their
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  Speaker 2: own mental health issues, or they're just their parenting challenges.
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  Speaker 2: What happens then, because most parents will say I can't
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  Speaker 2: afford one hundred and eighty or two hundred and twenty
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  Speaker 2: bucks every fortnight to go and see the psychologist. And
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  Speaker 2: the reality is sometimes psychology work takes a while. I mean,
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  Speaker 2: this can be a really expensive exercise. How do you
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  Speaker 2: guide a parent to the support that they need. What's
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  Speaker 2: the mental health plan process?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah?
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  Speaker 1: So it is costly and it is time consuming. I
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  Speaker 1: would say that if the GP is concerned about a diagnosis,
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: to ask them to help you do a mental health
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  Speaker 1: care plan that does provide some funding. There are gps
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: out there, and I understand this that might be hesitant
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  Speaker 1: to do a mental health care plan on a child
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  Speaker 1: because they're not certain about the diagnosis or they think
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: there might not be a diagnosis. But just keep explaining
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: that the challenges are ongoing, and as I said earlier,
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: you find the GP that will help you with this
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  Speaker 1: process because it can be done, and it should be
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  Speaker 1: done if you need that sort of also financial support.
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  Speaker 1: But the other great thing about that mental health care
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  Speaker 1: plan is that provides that link then to the psychologist.
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  Speaker 1: It can also be used for an OT with a
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  Speaker 1: mental health background or a social worker. A lot of
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  Speaker 1: gps don't know that, So find the right person for you.
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  Speaker 1: Get the mental health care plan done. That then provides
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: some funding for six sessions to start with to one
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  Speaker 1: of those allied health providers. It can then be extended
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  Speaker 1: to ten. It doesn't cover the entire cost, as you said,
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  Speaker 1: justin some psychologists will charge two hundred and two hundred
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  Speaker 1: and fifty dollars. It might mean that you have to
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: do some research on more affordable psychologists, and they.
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: Are out there.
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  Speaker 1: There are a few, but they're often busier. But the
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: mentalth plans a good starting point. Once we've got that link.
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: Then I often get feedback from the psychologists about how
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: things are going, and we get a letter back, and
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: we can then open that communication and keep working on
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  Speaker 1: and refining if there is a diagnosis, if there is
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: a neurodevelopmental disorder going on as well, you know that
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  Speaker 1: we might be starting to think about referring on to
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  Speaker 1: a pediutrician.
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: Andrew.
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  Speaker 2: When I listen to this process, it all sounds seamless,
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  Speaker 2: it all makes sense, but we know that life's kind
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: of messy.
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: We know that it's.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: Really hard to get into a GP, let alone quote
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: unquote the right one. Then you get these six visits
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: to a psychologist. But one thing that we know from
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: research is that the therapeutic alliance, that is the relationship
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: between the psychologist and the client is one of the
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: biggest indicators of how will that client works through managers
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: and even recovers when we're talking about their mental health challenges,
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: those difficulties that they're experiencing. If I go and see
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: a psychologist and I've got to wait three months to
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: get in, if I'm lucky, it's probably going to be
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: more than that. But let's say I geting because of it,
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: says Oh, this one's great, and it just doesn't feel right.
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  Speaker 2: Am I now down to five with the next psychologists?
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  Speaker 2: Or does it revert to six so that I can
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: try again? You're down to five, right, And so the
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: idea that and this is where it starts to get
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: complex because long wait times, you don't really know what
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: you're getting. Just because everyone else said he or she
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: is great doesn't mean that they're going to be great
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: for you. What's safety in there? What support? What other
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: advice can you offer? When a parent tries maybe two
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: or even three psychologists to get the right relationship, the
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: right alliance, to get the right opportunities for progress, how
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: do they get there?
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: It's a really great question justin the challenge there is
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: you are using up the sessions on the mental health
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  Speaker 1: plan for each psychologist that you visit. It's not uncommon
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: for parents to find the first one is not the
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: right one. And I tell them not no one's offended
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  Speaker 1: by that. That it's okay to say, look, we're just
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: not clicking, or this psychologists just doesn't have the interest
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: area that we were seeking.
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: And so hard to know after like an how long
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: visit as well.
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  Speaker 1: It's so hard to know and often that first session
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: is just taking a history, so there's not much therapy
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: going on in that first session or even the second session,
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: and so parents will come back to me saying, you
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: just spent an hour talking to me about what was
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: going on, which is what you did, and I will
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: say they needed to.
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: Find that out.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: So oh, look, I actually think it's good to give
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: them a go, give them a chance to connect. I
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: find it hard to connect in half an hour or
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: even fifteen minutes with the child. Give them a chance
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: to build the rapport. And if that five six sessions
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: is not working out, look it is tricky. There's no
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: way around Medicare to try and reset that except to
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: say that it resets each year, so it'll start again.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: There are a further four sessions, so that takes you
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: up to ten. During COVID, we were really lucky to
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: have twenty sessions that we could use and they can
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: be changed between psychologists. But I have a feeling that
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: funding is about to be cut unfortunately, so it's going
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: to come back to ten sessions. Look at private health
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: insurance options. If you do have private health insurance, some
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: will fund part of that amount. But look, it's not
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: just the psychologist. It's not just the GP. There are
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: other supports that you could be seeking in that time
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: that you're waiting to get the right help. And I
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: tend to get that pediatric referral early. If I think
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: there is a neurodevelopmental disorder in wa, we're having a
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: real issue getting a pediatrician for children. It takes a
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: long time. It can take parents twelve plus months to.
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: Get a pediatrician.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: So get that referral early and get in the wait
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: lists of the pediatricians. I really love to involve the teacher.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: The teacher is spends half the time with the child.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: So how do I involve the teacher. I'll send them
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: an email, say, look, little Johnny's having trouble with his feelings,
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: his emotions. I am wondering about also ADHD or I'm
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: wondering about a mental health disorder. Can you just keep
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: an eye out for him and maybe have a look
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: at some ways around supporting him in the classroom. You know,
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: I don't like telling teachers what to do, because they
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: know the children best and they know what works well,
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: and they're busy too, But just letting them know, just
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: flagging it with them.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I love I love it because parents probably don't
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: usually know that they can ask the doctor to give
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: them some kind of information to pass on to the tea.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, and I will get a letter back from
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: the teacher saying thank you, thank you for raising this.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: I'm going to keep you in the loop about how
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: how this child is going. And I love that because
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: then we're sort of starting to create a little team
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: around the child. There's there's other ways as well. You know,
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: it might be it might be getting the child to
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: enroll in a in a social group or a sports
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: program or something that helps build their social skills and confidence,
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: and that is therapeutic. Enrolling in your program, Justin. I
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: tell them all all in Justin's program. That is a
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: nice bridge towards towards that psychology appointment that you're waiting for,
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: or in between psychology appointments. And there's a few other
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: online cognity behavior programs like the Brave program that is
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: really great for anxiety in children, which is online. So
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: just just little things on the way and keep coming
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: back to GP.
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: I encourage parents to book in at least once a
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: term for a long appointment to touch base and let
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: me know how they're going, and if they're really struggling
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: with that psychologist or finding the right person, we'll just
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: keep working on it. That's all we can do, really,
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: and looking for alternatives that might help with that child's journey.
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: I like that. Just keep working on it. It's kind
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: of the mantra for life, isn't it so, Andrew? If
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: I was to summarize, basically, when you're worried about your
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: own mental health or that of your children, get in
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: see the GP to the extent that you can find
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: a GP who's going to be trained in mental health
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: or pediatrics, or a combination of the two. Get on
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: the mental health care plan. Hopefully find a psychologist. Hopefully
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: find a psychologist that you can have a good relationship
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: with as well, so that you just it's not about
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: just finding a site, it's about getting the relationship right.
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: And then continue the communication, continue the progress. Talk to
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: the teacher, bring that alliance of people together, the occupational
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: therapist or the social worker or just somebody else. And
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: I love what you said right at the end. Get
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: the kids outside, get them involved in sports, get them
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: being physically active, get them doing the stuff that we
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: know is associated with great health.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: One of my biggest tips is turn off the screens
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: and go outside and play and go back to sort
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: of the basics good sleep, eating well and play and
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: social skills and getting them you know, get invite a
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: friend over. You know, some of those basics are so
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: powerful for child mental health that you know, we often
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: end up not needing that extra support because we're figured out.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: It's made it a lot easier. I know it's not
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: that simple, but it's just just those practical things that
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: sometimes we forget as parents because we are also overwhelmed
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: and busy and just to finish. Also, Justin, parents can
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: also access the mental health care plan for themselves if
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: they are also struggling with a mental health diagnosis or illness.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: So you know, it's not uncommon for me to get
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: the parent back for them to also referred on to
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: a psychologist, and I think that is really important that
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: they are supported as well, and that helps with the
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: whole family network.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: Terrific Andrew, great talking to you, Thanks so much.
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: Thanks Justin. Great to be part of the program.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: Andrew Leach is a GP based in Perth, Western Australia.
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: I kind of wish that he was just down the
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: road from me. I think it'd be handy to have
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: a GP like Andrew around if you'd like more information
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: about the things that we've talked about, heaps of information
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: you'll find that in the show notes. We'll link to
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: all of the different resources that Andrew has highlighted as
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: we've discussed things throughout this podcast. And if you like
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: more information about me your family happier. We love it
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: when you check out Happy families dot com dot au.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Ruland from
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer.
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: Tomorrow, on the podcast book Club
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: We only get to do it once a month, and
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: Tomorrow it's the day Kylie and I are going to
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: let you know the best stuff we've read over the
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: last month