Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / Career Accelerator For Financial Planning - Part 1 of 4

Transcript

Career Accelerator For Financial Planning - Part 1 of 4 · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so welcome everybody to our brand new series here at the Financial Planner Life.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_02: I'm joined by Charlie and I'm joined by Elena and myself, obviously Sam Oakes.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_02: And this is the Career Accelerator Podcast Series.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're new to the financial planning profession, if you're currently in the financial planning profession and you want to get ahead in your career, this podcast is all about helping you make the right decisions in your financial planning career.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: So I hope you enjoy it.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: Cool.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: That's a little enjoyed.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: That was that was great.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_02: Right, should we just stop there then?
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_02: We've done it.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_02: We've nailed the podcast.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: Right, okay.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: Excellent.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_02: So, right, ladies, today we are going to talk about um a career within financial planning.
• 0:49
  unknown: Yeah.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: This is our brand new series, right?
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: Exciting.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_02: But we need to break down that series because it isn't simple changing jobs.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of things that come up, there's a lot of emotions, there's a lot of stress that can be involved.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's a bit like moving house, which I've just recently done.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_02: Very, very stressful.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_02: Changing from one job to another, or even one career from another, and that's what we do when we help people with the Financial Planet Life Academy, it can be incredibly stressful.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: So we're going to break the process down for all of our listeners.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: We're going to give them an insight into what we do as well as recruitment consultants and how we can massively help them get ahead within their careers.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: So I think the first place we should start is so you are thinking about leaving your current company or your current career to become a financial advisor or a power planner or an administrator.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe you're looking to step up from admin to power planner, power planner to advisor.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_02: But we need to establish the reasons why.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah?
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_02: Because there is absolutely no point in leaving somewhere if it's on the back of a resentment, false evidence, if you think you're being hard done by.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: So we're going to help people really discover why they should leave their current employer.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_02: So, Elena, why don't you kick things off?
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_02: What do you think?
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: I definitely think if you're looking for a new job, whether that is because you're looking for a new career or you're looking for just a different role within the industry, definitely involves a process of self-reflection.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: As you've just touched on there, there's loads of different factors on why you might look for something else.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: It might be career progression, it might be salary, it might be better work-life balance, but you need to sit down and really have a deep conversation with yourself to think about these factors and really understand your drivers and your motivators before you look for something else.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: What do you reckon, Charlie?
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: Any examples of that you've come across working in recruitment within financial planning?
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_03: Massively.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_03: You can have people who, you know, I recruit within Scotland, and you get people who commute from Glasgow to Edinburgh every day, and then three months in, that commute is famously bad.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_03: So they quit their job, and then they're stuck with three months of one job on their CV, still wanting to get into the profession, but not off to a good start.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_03: And it's disheartening.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_03: It's hard for them when they're in that position where they obviously everyone goes in with good intentions.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_03: You want to do the commute, you want to make this a success, but you've got to be realistic.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_03: Is a commute something you want to do?
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, great.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: All very, very good points.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I think we should dig deep a little bit on this because nobody has a crystal ball, right?
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_02: No, we've got no crystal ball.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: No, sadly.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: We wouldn't be sitting here, we'd be sitting sitting on a beach in Bali, yeah.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_02: So we got no crystal ball, and nobody out there has a crystal ball.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_02: And when you do change from job to job, you are essentially taking a risk, you're taking a gamble.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: So you can understand why people might be anxious around it.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so let's break that down.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: Let's get people making the right decision for the right reasons.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, cool.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: So we looked at things like salary.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: I think salary is a major motivator for somebody when they're looking to change job.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: But what can somebody do whilst they're in their current role to establish whether or not money is the main driver for them?
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: And should they leave their job because they're not, say, being paid enough?
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_02: Perhaps they're not um uh earning enough bonus, perhaps their basics too low, perhaps their percentage split, if they're self-employed, isn't enough for them?
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_02: What can people do to actually establish if that is actually true?
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: There's so many different facts in this, because as you said, you know, you're thinking about your salary.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: If you want a large increase from what you're on now in your next position, you know, why is that?
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: What benefit is that going to add to your life?
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: Are you saving for a house?
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: You've got a young family and you really need to and you really need that increase in income.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: You need to think about the reasons why you want that salary increase and is it a justifiable jump?
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: If you're on 40,000 and you're looking for your next role at 70, you know, why is that?
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's a steep increase.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: But I think if your main driver is salary, and that's the really the one key thing that's pushing you to look for a new role, I would always say to candidates, have a chat with your current employer.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, we know in recruitment we make a whole business because firms are looking for individuals that have experience within financial planning, and it's very likely that your current employer doesn't want to lose you, especially if it's solely a salary thing.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: So broach that conversation with management, tell them that you want an increase for X, Y, and Z and how this would really benefit your life.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: And if salary is your main motivator and your current firm can increase your salary, you don't have to go through all of this stress that we're talking about.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: You can remain comfortable.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: So, especially on a salary element, if this is your only driver, you can eliminate this whole process by having a discussion with your current employer.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's bang on great advice.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: You know, as a business owner, I want to hear from my staff if they feel undervalued.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: Now, one of the things I definitely would want to see also as well is look, if you want a pay increase, why do you want a pay increase?
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: You know, what's your reasons for wanting a pay increase?
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_02: Have you got some evidence that the profession is paying the salary that you are looking for?
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_02: And we can get onto that about how you actually get that evidence.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_02: But one of the most obvious things you can do is log on to our website and download a 2022 salary guide, new one coming out soon as well, where we cover admin, power planning, financial advisor, what salaries are being paid out there.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: And when people download it, sometimes they're hugely shocked.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_02: But others turned around to me and said, Thank you so much for putting that salary guide out there because I did take it to my employer and they did change my salary.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: You touched on this, right?
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_02: Employers do not want to lose their staff, especially within the financial planning profession.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: Good administrators, good power planners, good financial planners, rare as rocking horse shit.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_03: Basically a unicorn.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_03: Gold dust.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_02: Basically a unicorn.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_02: Charlie, how about that feeling of uncomfortableness around talking about money?
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_02: Why do we feel that way?
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_02: What can people do to avoid that?
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_03: I think naturally I think British people are quite introverted.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_03: And I think there's also a confidence thing.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_03: If you go and talk to your employer, like, oh, I want to get paid a bit more, it's asking for something which it's just a difficult conversation to breach sometimes.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_03: And I think the salary guide, I'm so glad you brought it up.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_03: I send it to everyone.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_03: It's so good.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_03: It talks, it just shows you, like, you know, when you do your level four and you open up those doors for yourself, it shows you the salary increase.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_03: And I hope it gives people the confidence to go in and go, actually, I know my worth.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_03: And it also will reveal to you if you go in and you have that conversation and they turn around and go, No.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_03: Well, okay, now's time to start looking for a new job.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_03: And it's about having that confidence.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_03: If you don't ask, you don't get.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks, Mum, for sharing that with me.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: I think as well, you know, don't be afraid to reach out to others within the profession as well.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_02: There are lots of communities out there.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: You've got Octo members, you've got the financial planner life.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_02: Although we don't have a community per se, we have a huge amount of people that follow our company who are interested in accelerating their career.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_02: And the one thing that I know from talking to financial planners, talking to power planners, talking to administrators, they're very happy to share what they're earning and what they love, value, and enjoy about their jobs, but also what they dislike about it.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_02: So they're always looking to compare.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: I know Chantel Patterson's got a group set up, isn't she?
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_02: For women within the financial planning profession.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I've heard that's quite a good group where people do share things like salary, things like responsibilities, how much they're getting paid, what career progression looks like within those firms.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: So don't be afraid to reach out to other people within the profession.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: And here's a huge tip, right?
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_02: We are a recruitment agency.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_02: There are a number of recruitment agencies in the financial planning space, and we're the best.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_02: So when you're in that situation, right, and you feel alone and you feel isolated, and all you're doing is thinking in your head, am I being paid enough?
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not being paid enough, I'm not being paid enough, and you're sort of getting neggy, neggy, neggy, and those thoughts are going around in your head, right?
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_02: Turn to us and ask us.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_02: We are talking to the market, we're talking to candidates, we're talking to companies, we're aligning what salaries are up against role responsibilities.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: And you know why it's really then good to reach out to that fine uh to that recruiter?
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's because you are then building a relationship with that recruiter.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_02: That recruiter understands what your aspirations and goals are, what your career expectations are and your earnings throughout your career, they can correct your thinking if it's wrong.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, but if it's not wrong, all of a sudden you've got a trusted recruitment consultant that's in your back pocket that you can turn to, because we're gonna go on to the next stage.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_02: Because if you're not gonna get what you want from your current employer and they're not willing to put your salary up, and you know that evidence suggests that you should be on a higher salary, that's when you turn around to that recruitment consultant.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_02: And we will go on about how to best work with a recruitment consultant, how to best market yourself for those new job opportunities a bit later on.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: But salary expectations, you know, we want to cover that, we want to talk about that.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: It is uncomfortable talking about money.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_02: We know that, financial planners know that because they find it very difficult sometimes to get clients to open up themselves about it.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_02: There's a huge emotional attachment to that.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: But be brave, be courageous, change comes from that.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_02: Step up, ask for that meeting.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_02: But when you go in there, don't go in with anger, don't go in there with judgment, comparing yourself to others in a negative way of self-pity.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_02: Go in there with evidence.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_02: Go in there with what you have done.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_02: Now, this works incredibly well as well, and it will lead on to other things that I want to talk about when it comes to finding a new job opportunity in financial planning, right?
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_02: Competency framework, right?
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: So we here at Recruit UK have a competency framework.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody knows exactly what they need to do to trigger salary increases to earn higher levels of bonus because there's a level of role responsibility.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_02: And again, it's not just about comparing the salary, it's about comparing your experience against that salary.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_02: What are you doing day in, day out?
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: Does your job title reflect the level of actual work you do?
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_02: How many senior administrators do we come across that are actually power planners?
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: Loads.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_02: Getting paid like 25k for a 45k job.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: You're an admin doing a suitability report, you're a power planner, really.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: But I think the fear thing is so important because, as you say, you've got to step up and you've got to be brave and you've got to have that conversation.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: But even if you do it at the point where you've accepted a job and you're, you know, you're gonna hand in your notice, you're still gonna have to broach that conversation.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just about using it to your advantage to something that can accelerate your career, rather than we see counter-offers as recruitment companies pretty much for 75% now of the candidates that are deal with get a counter-offer.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: And loads of candidates are inclined to take them.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: So you're just broaching a conversation that you could have had before, and you're using fear then as something to stop you.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: So ultimately, you know, step up, have that conversation because it can save you, the recruiter, other employers, so much time, so much energy.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: One of the things I would say as well, like you're almost putting your employer on the spot, right?
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_02: And a really good employer who's innovative, who wants to change with the times and make their environment, their workplace environment, uh fair, competitive, inclusive, all of those typical types of things.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_02: I love hearing that feedback.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: Now, if you sit down and that individual's like, whoa, I give you all of that, I give you this, I give you that, I give you that, and it's almost kind of like you should be grateful.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_02: Alarm bells for me are ringing because really they should be thinking, thank you for telling me, thank you for letting me know that we're not quite hitting the mark here in respect of your role responsibility and your salary expectations.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: And thank you for bringing the evidence to me so I can make those changes.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: Because the positive impact that's going to have on the growth of that business is absolutely huge.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: So put your employer on trial in a nice way.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_02: Please don't put me on trial.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_02: Put them on trial, you know, because how they react to that meeting will show whether or not their values are in place.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: And just going back to that competency framework thing, right?
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, we've put a competency framework within our business here at Recruit UK.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's on my wall there.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's the first thing that someone sees when they come in for an interview because I want to show them that when you join the business, this is the path you can go on, this is what you can earn, and this is the expectations that we have on you, and you can have those expectations upon us as an employer about how we support you.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: Charlie, something like that, right?
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: How has that helped you in your career here as a recruitment consultant?
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: And how is that transferable then to financial planning?
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: And how is that a I I personally think, do you think as well that that is a massively important factor in then choosing another company to work for?
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_03: Massively.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_03: I think having framework generally, you've got clear-cut goals.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_03: You know you need to do X by this amount of time to be able to unlock the next level almost.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_03: And it gives you something to aim for, it motivates you.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_03: And you can also, in the office, if you've got everyone on the same framework, you get like a healthy competition, but you also support each other through it and you're helping to lift them up.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_03: Like, yes, you're this amount of money away from hitting your next promo.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_03: Like, come on, you can do it.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_03: Even earlier, we were sat in here preparing for this, and we heard someone hit lunch club, and everyone in the office was cheering, it's so supportive.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_03: And I think when that translates to financial planning, people are going through an admin, maybe they're a trainee paraplanner, getting you a level four.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_03: If everyone's in that together, like, right, you do one RO exam, you get a salary uplift.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_03: You're gonna start seeing the benefits of what your work is doing, the same way the framework here for me does that, because once you hit that certain threshold, salary uplift, bigger package for your in your job package.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_03: And it's the same in financial planning.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_03: Once you get that level four, those doors open, the salary comes through.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_03: But having that framework, people need that.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_03: Otherwise, you're just, you know, they don't know what the profession is like.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_03: They need that structure because it's like the scaffolding they can climb on to get to the top and then understand it.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_03: Otherwise, they're just going in blind.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: Are you an experienced financial planner, power planner, administrator, perhaps or a compliance manager, or even working in marketing?
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_02: Whatever you're doing within the financial planning profession, if you're looking for a career change, check out Recruit UK, where we have all the leading financial planner job opportunities at your fingertips.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: Need to speak to somebody in a bit more detail about your career aspirations and what you're looking for, reach out to one of our consultants who'll happily help you today.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: So that's recruituklimited.co.uk.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: Career progression, I think, is a major why.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_02: Huge.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah?
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_02: So at that point, we've we've covered salary.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: Now we're sort of talking about career progression here, aren't we?
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_02: Because if I'm sitting there and I'm actually quite happy with my salary, perhaps I'm happy with my salary, but I'm not fulfilled in my ambitions.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: And we're talking about healthy ambitions.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: How many times have we come across administrators that have been promised that they're going to be a financial planner?
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: Expectations have not been set by the employer to show them a time scale of coming from administration, working, say, through to PowerPlan, maybe becoming a financial advisor, unrealistic expectations, overpromising, underdelivering.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: Now, at what point should someone go, enough's enough?
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: You know, because you can go and join an academy and get through an academy in 12 months and become a financial advisor with client leads, M and G, by the way.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: Come and apply.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_02: You can apply and apply on our website.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_02: But that's true, isn't it?
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and there's a lot of loyalty, more often than not, from individuals that join firms.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I wholeheartedly respect that.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: There's this idea that you should stay with a company because it's going to ruin your CV from jumping from one company to another and to another company, right?
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_02: But this is a big why for me.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_02: Why you should put on trial again the evidence.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_02: Am I having my ambitions met within the company that I'm in?
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: Are they training me?
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: Do they have a clear career progression plan?
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_02: How many conversations have I had?
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_02: How many times have I been promised?
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_02: How often does this thought come into my head?
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: How many times do I minimize it?
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: Someone comes over, puts an arm around me, I feel better for a few more months, but it comes back again.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_02: People often sit in their shit for too long when if they can put a hand out and again ask for that advice, am I in the wrong job?
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: Am I having my ambition met within this current job?
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: So come on, what can they do?
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_02: What can they do to bring that to life, to put those challenges there, to put it on trial, to evidence is this my reason why, and is it justified?
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: Ultimately, going back to what we were saying before about salary, if you are really set on you're an admin and you want to step into a trainee power planner role, you're a power planner and you want to step into a training advisor, you touch on it then, but have you had this conversation with your employer?
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you're sat there, well, I know we keep talking about it, but if you're sat there and you're an admin and you're there like, I really want to become a power planner, and you've had this ambition for six months, but you've not actually expressed this to your managers, they're not mind readers.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: You might have this conversation and they go, Oh my god, excellent.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, we'll get you on this training plan, we'll get you on this exam journey.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: And fair enough, it might not manifest in the long run, but still, hiring managers aren't fortune tellers, and you need to be brave enough to have that conversation and broach that ambition.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Because, again, you know, you might be in a firm which are actually able to offer you that.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: They just aren't aware of where you want to go.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: So, again, I would definitely say have the conversations with the people around you to see if they are able to support that progression because finding trainee and junior roles can sometimes be a bit more harder to find externally.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_00: Because from what I find, firms do want to nurture their talent from within, and they'd prefer to go internally rather than, you know, recruit for that externally.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_02: We've got a couple, well, we've got quite a fair few firms within the financial planning profession that tend to be small to medium-sized firms, and then we've got these larger firms.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_02: Charlie, you do a lot of work with some of these larger organizations.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_02: I do, I do.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_02: You do a lot of work with some of the smaller organizations, right?
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: Now, a smaller organization might not have the career framework in place as much as, say, a Bruin Dolphin.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah?
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_02: An Evelyn Partners, okay, where the career progression is clearly tends to be like, you know, outlined, right?
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_03: Clear cut, clear cut.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_02: And outlined.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_02: But we often see in a smaller firm, you can go from zero to hero in a couple of years.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_02: I was thinking to a girl a couple of days ago.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_02: She joined as a power planner and now she's the operations director of a business.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, wow.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: So there are these opportunities within these smaller firms, right?
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_02: So then it comes down to again, you.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_02: It comes down to whether or not you're willing to wait or how involved are you in that smaller firm?
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_02: Is your voice being heard?
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: Are you confidently raising your voice to talk about the things like training and development, the needs that you have?
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: Are you doing the research into the right ways of how you can progress within a company?
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_02: Because again, if you're not doing that within a smaller firm where a business owner could well also be the financial advisor and they are wearing multiple hats, are you stepping up enough?
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_02: And is that environment the right environment for you?
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: Perhaps you don't belong in a smaller startup style business.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_02: And in fact, you belong in one of the larger type firms where there is this clear-cut career structure, this kind of cookie-cut mould type approach to progression of individuals.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, what do you think of that?
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_03: So I always say to people when talking about smaller firms, I'm like, look, small firm, big impact.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_03: And it's so interesting you brought it up because I did a poll literally yesterday on LinkedIn asking what do people within the prep profession prefer?
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_03: Do they prefer small, which is like up to 50 people, medium, which is up to 250, or large?
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_03: And I think over 50% said small.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_03: So being in that smaller environment, but I think I've worked, particularly on the trainee side, with the bigger companies, you know, they've got like an 18-month plan that you come in, you get six months your cash status, you get your salary uplift with this, and that to people, when they want to become a financial advisor, particularly when you look at the advisor gap, so appealing, so attractive.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_03: But then I also have smaller clients who say, Look, we'll we'll hire you as a trainee power planner.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_03: You can come in, you've got a year where you understand the business, and then you start doing your level four.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_03: Because it's also testing commitment from the hiring manager's side.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_03: Like, are you willing to sit in this role for a year before you do your qualifications?
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_03: Is this what you want to do?
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_03: And it tests the commitment from both sides, I think.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: Fab, great.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: So look, it's about you understanding again what the career and what your career ambitions are, the firm that you are with, regardless of the shape or size of it, are you aligned to that firm's core principles, values, training and development plans?
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_02: Is there anything in place?
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: Or are you literally banging your head against a brick wall, hoping for something for to change that isn't going to change, right?
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_02: Have you had a go at Changing it?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Have you have you have you stepped up to do it?
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: Do you want to be that person who steps up the deal?
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: Or do you just want to go to work and just be part of a system that actually works?
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_02: These are all great whys as to why you should change, but you need to question it because you need to bring it, as I always say, bring the evidence to in front of you.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_02: Put it on trial.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: Is it right?
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_02: Is it wrong?
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_02: Is what you're telling yourself true, or is it false evidence appearing real?
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: And often we get into that state because there's things in our personal life that can also twinge away at how we feel.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_02: Perhaps we're in financial difficulty.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um perhaps we all of our friends have got much better jobs than us.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it can always make us feel really less than, doesn't it?
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and so be aware of that.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: Am I moving for the right reasons or am I trying to keep up with the Joneses here?
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that's another area we've got to look at.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_02: And that's it leads me on to some other things as well, because you know what I'm like around mental health, right?
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know what I'm like around mental fitness, and you know what I'm like about building a brilliant business that's inclusive, but also allows people to uh be themselves, right?
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: And is supporting them as well if they are suffering from mental health problems, if they're having difficulty, if their parents for crying out loud, male or female, can they go and see their children's Christmas play?
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: Can they go and pick them up?
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: Can they drop them off at school?
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_02: Do they feel guilty and ashamed to be doing it?
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_02: Is this is there a toxic culture?
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_02: That to me is another massive why you should actually potentially leave a business because your environment, right?
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_02: If it's toxic, guess what's gonna happen?
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's gonna make you toxic.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, a beautiful flower growing in a toxic dump isn't a beautiful flower anymore, right?
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's dying, right?
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's gonna kill you.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_02: So toxic environments are no good for anybody.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_02: If you think you're in a toxic environment, maybe it's time to get out.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: So let's talk about that, right?
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: What would we consider?
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_02: Charlie, what would we consider a toxic work environment?
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_03: I think it does depend.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, there's obviously big things which are flat out toxic, but it also depends on the individual and their values and what their non-negotiables are.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_03: Because say that, you know, you can't go see your kid, that to me, I don't have kids.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_03: I've got a cat.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_03: But if I had kids, I'd be pissed off.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_03: I'd be like, let me go see my kid and it's Christmas play.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_03: Like, this is a non-negotiable.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_03: So I think working in an environment, toxicity for me is a closed-door policy when they say it's an open door policy, it's a manager who won't listen, it's you know, empty promises coming through, it's okay, you came in 10 minutes late, you need to stay 10 minutes later.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like things can happen outside in your personal life which will impact your work.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_03: And it needs to be an understanding that it's a little bit of give and take sometimes and toxicity.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_03: You know, for example, say you've got an employee that you don't get on with and you lodge a complaint, and then the manager does nothing, and then you lodge another complaint, and they still do nothing, and you're stuck in this situation where that person's making you feel like crap, that's gonna edge away at your mental health, and then you're just gonna say, Do you know what?
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe I don't want to do financial planning, I'm out.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like I learned this, right?
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_02: We were a small business, and toxicity crept into our business.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: Now I'm absolutely one to put my hand up and say that I ran a business in a way before that was very I was unclear about how I ran my business, right?
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't know what to do.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_02: I was wearing multiple hats, and um, sometimes I came across as quite demanding, high expectations.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_02: I had to put the mirror, I had to get the mirror and I had to take a good look at myself, right?
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_02: I had to take a good look at myself, uh, you know, and I lost staff in the process of this on this learning experience.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_02: So sometimes, again, we go back to this larger corporation, smaller corporations.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes smaller corporations from the get-go put in really good um employee well-being programs, you know, people to talk to, they put down, uh they credit themselves with B Corp, for example.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, there's a thousand companies in the UK that are B Corp, but I think there's probably one or two financial planning firms, a couple of recruitment companies, of which we nearly are, by the way.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we are nearly B Corp.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I've learned from my mistakes.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: So things like that toxicity within the workplace, right, can happen sometimes in a small environment where there's huge amounts of pressure financially for the directors, for example, and top down, it can come down in a really negative way.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: My advice to that, if those individuals are willing to change and they show that they're willing to change, right, and they listen to your feedback again.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_02: Feedback, feedback, feedback's important for the growth of the business, and they're taking it on board, then I think that's a really, really positive thing.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: But in small businesses, sometimes there could be a couple of breadwinners in there that are earning really good money, big egos, right?
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_02: And perhaps they might not be um being as supportive to anybody else within the business.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_02: The business owner's thinking, I don't want to lose those two, therefore, I'll ignore the toxic environment that's being created, this egocentric environment.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I think I've come across lots of people who are sitting in those types of businesses that feel that way.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_02: My advice in those situations look, feedback, do you have a policy there to listen to what it is that you're actually talking about?
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_02: Can they are they taking on board the impact that it's having on you emotionally?
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_02: If not, get out.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_02: Go and find a company that's going to invest in it.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_02: Because I changed, man.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_02: You know, first, and I don't think I'm the only businessman who's ever done that.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: I changed.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I put so much stuff now into mental health, well-being, um, uh positive impact socially, getting everybody responsible, getting everybody involved, you know, and firms can do it.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: So thoughts on that?
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_03: I think, in terms of putting things into your business which support people, we're both mental health first aiders now.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we have five paid hours a month where we can do volunteering.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_03: And I know that if I had a problem, I could go talk to anybody in the business.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I think encouraging that culture, which is nice and open, some people just don't have that.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_03: And some people have never worked in that environment.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_03: They've always worked somewhere that's toxic and they've always had this shit to deal with.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_03: And like, you know, particularly even talking to family members where they just can't quite recognize it.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_03: They're working in an environment where they're kind of being taken for granted, they're working and doing uh, you know, they've been on the same pay grade for seven years.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_03: No, like you're not being valued, you're not being looked after.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_03: And I think an employer does have a duty to look after you.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_03: And we feel so looked after here.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_03: And I've definitely worked in places where it's not had that energy, it's not had that mantra.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_03: And it's so important because otherwise, you will lose people.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_03: You'll lose really good workers who could actually be huge transformational people in your business, so key to the growth that you want.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_03: And also think about what kind of business you want.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_03: Think about what kind of business you want to work in.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_03: Do you want to work in somewhere where, you know, Debbie on a Friday went home crying and no one said anything?
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_03: Like, do you want that?
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_03: And then Debbie comes in on a Monday and no one says anything, and then it's just and it perpetuates itself.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_03: You want to work in an environment where it's like, oh, okay, like we need to look at what we're doing here, we need to have an open door policy and look at the mental health because it's so important, more now than ever, I think, to really give the support to people.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I think particularly the work we do here is championing mental health always.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_03: Everyone experiences it.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_03: Everyone, anyone listening right now knows that they've had a time in their life, it knows people in their life who've struggled, and it's about bringing that to a workplace because think of how many more people you can access through a job.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_03: It's not just going out into the, you know, with a charity, into the public.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_03: If you focus on that within your business and every other business focuses within that, the impact you have will be so big.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think company culture itself is something that I am so, so passionate about.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so passionate and like being a part of Recruit UK that has an absolutely amazing culture down to its core.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's something that I'm really, really passionate about.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there's lots of things here that I've said, you know, if you're struggling, like go and speak to your employer, but especially in a toxic environment, if it does cover a lot of the points that Charlie mentioned, you can go speak to your employer, but it's a transitional change.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's never something that, like a career framework structure or a salary uplift.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I always say if you're really struggling with the culture of your business, down.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: Because there are so many companies that have such amazing cultures that if there's something that's lacking within your business, go find someone that does.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: Especially when we're talking about like, are you where you want to be?
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: When you are in a toxic environment, think about, you know, is it the management?
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: Is it the lack of social interaction?
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: Is it the mental health, mental health policy?
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: And moving forward, use that.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, in an interview, we'll talk about that more later on, use it as your fact-finder mission to make sure the culture aligns with what you're looking for.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we have a recruit UK Instagram, and you go on there and you see all of us having so much fun, you see how much we do get along in a like a collaborative family environment, and you know, you can take that moving forward.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: So definitely, in terms of a toxic environment, if you've if your company culture isn't hitting the mark, leave because someone's company culture will be exactly what you're looking for.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, very well said.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: I want to sum this up now, okay?
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_02: I want to leave our listeners and viewers, the watchers, I want to leave them with a tip.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: Something that they can do at this point in time to establish whether or not they are in the right place.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_02: And is their why big enough?
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_02: Because we're always thinking, is something over the fence a bit bare?
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_02: Is the grass a bit greener over the other side?
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_02: Is the why big enough, right?
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_02: And it's as simple as this.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_02: Take a piece of paper and write down everything that you love.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_02: Right, this is like the episode of Friends, isn't it?
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_02: You know when Ross wrote everything down about Rachel, just don't let Rachel, yeah, just don't let just don't let your boss find it, yeah.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_02: So you write down everything that you love about your job, right?
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_02: Write down everything that you dislike about your job and be brutally honest.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_02: This is a deep and fearless inventory.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: Write down all the things you really hate, like resent.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_02: Write down all the things you're really scared of, fearful.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_02: You know, am I gonna get that promotion?
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_02: Am I gonna earn more money?
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_02: Am I gonna lose my house?
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_02: Put all of those down on a piece of paper.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_02: Take an hour, take two hours.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_02: This is massively important in you holding a mirror up to yourself to look at the things that are really you really love and the things that really affect you.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_02: Now, what we want you to do is be massively brave and say what part of the things that really affect you is a you problem.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_03: You've got to be honest.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_03: You've got to be honest.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_03: Really honest.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_02: You've got to be honest.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_02: Am I causing my own problems?
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_02: Am I too, you know, prideful?
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_02: You know, are my expectations way too high?
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_02: Are they aligned?
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_02: Because guess what you're gonna do then, right?
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_02: You're then gonna go out, you're gonna do some research, you're gonna go onto some salary guides, you might pick up the phone and speak to Financial Planner Life, Recruit UK, whoever your recruitment contact is.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_02: You might go and join that community of Octo members, next gen planners, start asking some people what it's like on their side of the fence, right?
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_02: Because you're gonna start looking and getting that evidence.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_02: When you look around and you get that evidence, the great thing here, right, is that you are not committing to leaving that employer.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_02: All right, if you start throwing your toys out of the pram, you might be asked to leave.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah?
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_02: So have you a deep, fearless inventory.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_02: What I love, what I dislike, what I want, what I'm scared of, what I hate.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_02: What part do I play in that?
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: Have I got a responsibility here?
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_02: Is anything I need to work on?
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_02: You know, am I going out and getting pissed too much on a Friday night or a Thursday night or a Wednesday night?
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_02: Or a Wednesday night, you know?
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know, am I am I turning up to work late?
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: Have I got a bad attitude?
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_02: You know, am I in the wrong relationship myself?
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_02: Is it a me problem?
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_02: And am I taking my me problem into work?
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I think there's a big responsibility to look at yourself here, and then it's about going out and getting your thinking checked, right?
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_02: And then when you've done that, you're gonna be in the best position to know 100% what your why is when it comes to looking for a new job opportunity.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_02: There we go.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_02: Are you where you want to be?
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_02: And the next episode is all about if you're not where you want to be, how you should market yourself, promote yourself, and get yourself out there to find the right job opportunity.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you for listening.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.