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ep15 Arlo Maverick planting seeds · Almost Famous Enough

• 0:24
  In 2023, NPR produced a feature article in preparation for celebrating 50 years of hip hop called All Rap is Local.
• 0:32
  It was exploration through the formation of identity of hip hop artists and their communities, city by city in America, with the premise that while hip hop was a global phenomenon, its true impact needed to be measured in how it lives.
• 0:45
  City by city, and despite browsing this case study in the not so distant past, I found myself still operating on assumptions about rappers in hip hop in Canada, in western Canada.
• 0:57
  In my own backyard, a middle class white male observing hip hop culture from predominantly rural blue collar Canada is bound to get it wrong, right?
• 1:07
  Well, I did.
• 1:08
  I assumed that the need and the desire to escape with your music or to use your music as an escape was even stronger in this musical culture.
• 1:18
  There were few inherent opportunities in contrast to a glaring and obvious promise land out east, and you know what they say about assuming Arlo Maverick, the mc handle of over 20 years from Marlon Wilson, was kind enough to correct and erase my assumptions very quickly.
• 1:35
  His stories of developing skills, finding an audience, and staying in the city he creates in.
• 1:40
  Were affirming of the premise of this NPR article.
• 1:44
  The way the hip hop community supports and champions itself creates identity that always includes the place with the person.
• 1:51
  Marlon himself is perhaps the best symbol of this premise, always creating, always planting seeds.
• 1:58
  Marlon Wilson is an incredible community builder and artist.
• 2:01
  His artistic career spans over two significant stretches with the group politic live from 2002 to 2012, and then as a solo artist from 2016 to present day.
• 2:12
  He's a prolific grant writer.
• 2:13
  He's assisted in almost a million dollars of funding.
• 2:17
  He's a fantastic mentor to other artists in the city.
• 2:20
  He's a burgeoning filmmaker, bringing his passion and purpose to every creative outlet.
• 2:25
  He is a true local hero behind the mc.
• 2:29
  And you know what?
• 2:29
  I've known this since 2007 when Marlon needed our nonprofit music board to reschedule our meeting because taking care of his grandma was his priority.
• 2:40
  And you know what priorities are, what heroes are made of.
• 2:45
  My name is Glen Erickson.
• 2:46
  This is Almost Famous Enough.
• 2:48
  Thanks for spending your time with us.
• 2:50
  This is Arlo Maverick.
• 3:05
  Glen Erickson: Marlon Wilson, thank you so much for joining me.
• 3:07
  Glen Erickson: Marlon Wilson known to your.
• 3:10
  Glen Erickson: Family and friends and maybe employers, but, community at large Edmonton and further known as Arlo Maverick for probably well over 20 years now.
• 3:21
  Glen Erickson: Would you say?
• 3:21
  Glen Erickson: Over 20 years.
• 3:23
  Glen Erickson: Arlo Maverick.
• 3:24
  Arlo Maverick: Uh, probably, yeah, early two thousands.
• 3:26
  Arlo Maverick: Early two thousands.
• 3:27
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 3:27
  Glen Erickson: from the first time I knew you and watched like you're one of the best community builder people in the industry that, uh, I've met.
• 3:35
  Glen Erickson: well let's just start there and say like, there's a lot of people I talk to.
• 3:39
  Glen Erickson: In industry or community builders who end up in different roles that the artistic dream dies either suddenly or just tapers off slowly and painfully.
• 3:49
  Glen Erickson: And then they keep their, they wanna keep their foot in it so they move into other areas where they developed skills while they were pursuing artistic dreams.
• 3:58
  Glen Erickson: Right.
• 3:59
  Glen Erickson: You are this different exception who has just continued both things and developing, which I find fascinating.
• 4:06
  Glen Erickson: So I'd love to just go backwards, uh, if that's okay, Marlon, and then sort of trace our way through and, and, and learn some things about what, what that's been like for you, if that's all good.
• 4:15
  Arlo Maverick: Yeah.
• 4:16
  Glen Erickson: And also, you were in the stu I tried to get you a few nights ago and you said you were in the studio.
• 4:21
  Glen Erickson: So I need to ask right off the bat, or is this like just, you know, just putting in the time studio or helping someone else?
• 4:27
  Glen Erickson: Or are you working on something new?
• 4:29
  Arlo Maverick: Working on,
• 4:30
  Glen Erickson: Yourself.
• 4:30
  Glen Erickson: That was my first, yeah.
• 4:33
  Arlo Maverick: on something new.
• 4:34
  Arlo Maverick: it'll be somewhat of a follow up to the last album, blue Collar.
• 4:37
  Arlo Maverick: with that, uh, just exploring a different side of the working class.
• 4:41
  Arlo Maverick: So there's a lot of, uh, fresh and different topics that are gonna be explored on this one as compared to the last one.
• 4:47
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 4:47
  Glen Erickson: let's just dive in right there.
• 4:49
  Glen Erickson: 'cause I, I'll get, I'll go all the way back to the beginning in a little bit.
• 4:53
  Glen Erickson: But since we're here, like you said, your last full length album, it's called Blue Collar Exploring Certain subject Matter obviously related to that.
• 5:02
  Glen Erickson: So what was sort of, what were the sort of the key elements that you feel were part of Blue Collar that are different to what you want to explore now?
• 5:11
  Glen Erickson: 'cause that's an interesting choice to keep a thematic progression
• 5:14
  Arlo Maverick: Uh,
• 5:15
  Glen Erickson: through a couple records.
• 5:16
  Arlo Maverick: most of my projects are tied thematically.
• 5:18
  Arlo Maverick: with this latest one, as I mentioned, it's exploring more, more things related to the working class, but with blue collar, the, and it still carries like a through line for it, where essentially the album begins with a convocation speech, and the convocation speech speaks of all the.
• 5:35
  Arlo Maverick: opportunities that are added to your doorstep and how all these great things are gonna happen.
• 5:39
  Arlo Maverick: And then the song right after that, is a song that you get hit with the reality that sometimes the thing you go
• 5:45
  Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.
• 5:46
  Arlo Maverick: is not what you end up having the ability to work.
• 5:49
  Arlo Maverick: Uh, you don't get a chance to work in that field.
• 5:51
  Arlo Maverick: So having to work a job that doesn't reflect your education, doesn't reflect your, what you may feel to be your merit, but you still have bills to pay.
• 5:59
  Arlo Maverick: And so the album then goes down this, uh, road of like realizing that there are some people who, go to school for one thing.
• 6:06
  Arlo Maverick: Have bills to pay, have family to feed.
• 6:08
  Arlo Maverick: So they go down this path.
• 6:09
  Arlo Maverick: And so what explores the working class, like, whether it be having to work a night shift, which was one of the songs on there.
• 6:15
  Arlo Maverick: Um, it also looks
• 6:16
  Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.
• 6:17
  Arlo Maverick: responsibility and the, the role of fatherhood as it relates to providing for a family.
• 6:21
  Arlo Maverick: You know, it even deals with, looking at your employer and just the fact that some of us are literally giving ourselves to a job in order for them to possibly get rid of us because we're nothing of value to them, you know?
• 6:33
  Arlo Maverick: And so with this new
• 6:34
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 6:35
  Arlo Maverick: it transitions from working in a more blue collar job to working in a more white collar job, but still looking at, some of the, obstacles that come along with that.
• 6:44
  Arlo Maverick: You know, and it's still, it's not an album that is like so heavy with the, the message and so dense, like it still has the ability to, uh, make you dance, make you reflect.
• 6:54
  Arlo Maverick: Um, Bob Marley has always been one of my favorite artists in a great inspiration in the sense of how he's able
• 7:00
  Glen Erickson: Hmm.
• 7:00
  Arlo Maverick: Take regular everyday topics, whether they be, about struggle, whether they be about love or anything like that.
• 7:06
  Arlo Maverick: And just make it accessible and make it still danceable.
• 7:08
  Arlo Maverick: So with this album here,
• 7:10
  Glen Erickson: Yeah,
• 7:11
  Arlo Maverick: collar, you'll still be able to like enjoy it, but it's not like I'm beating over the head with a message saying that, uh, you know,
• 7:16
  Glen Erickson: yeah, yeah.
• 7:18
  Arlo Maverick: yeah.
• 7:18
  Glen Erickson: Well that's always been the challenge, right?
• 7:21
  Glen Erickson: For songwriters to be like, how do I, uh, if I'm gonna lean heavily into truth telling.
• 7:26
  Glen Erickson: how do I walk that line where it's still not like you just described either beating you over the head or making you feel like that's, uh, solely what is going on.
• 7:35
  Glen Erickson: And I mean, you always kinda walk a line.
• 7:37
  Glen Erickson: I feel a little bit in the, like, the storytelling, truth telling, they aren't necessarily the same thing all the time, uh, in songs and in music.
• 7:45
  Glen Erickson: But you, you do seem to like to walk the line.
• 7:48
  Glen Erickson: I'm just curious, maybe then tell me a little bit about your own style, like how you've sort of developed your own style of being able to do that.
• 7:55
  Glen Erickson: Like when you write these songs, when you want to sort of move thematically a little bit through and you're a point to get across, but you're not just saying it, you're sort of telling it through the picture or the image of somebody you're talking about or a situation.
• 8:08
  Glen Erickson: And so how, what's your approach?
• 8:11
  Glen Erickson: How, how have you sort of worked that out over the years?
• 8:13
  Arlo Maverick: well, it's, it's funny because as hip hop has progressed over the years, it's become more about the self.
• 8:19
  Arlo Maverick: Where a lot of the hip hop artists that I grew up listening to in my earlier years, like whether it be, Tupac, public Enemy, Chuck D, CS one, like a lot of these guys were telling stories where they were talking about specific subjects or, um, a specific individual or a situation, and they found a way to tell a story to make it more accessible to people.
• 8:38
  Arlo Maverick: Because at the end of the day, like there's a reason why we have these, uh, blockbuster films that do well or Netflix does well is because as human beings we are drawn to a narrative.
• 8:47
  Arlo Maverick: And so finding ways to, connect that story, whether it's my story or the story of somebody else to a, a, a larger audience for them to be able to see themselves in a lot of these stories.
• 8:56
  Arlo Maverick: Like when I look at a song like Night Shift, like it's literally looking at the fact of like, you're making these sacrifices for your family and doing horrible damage to your body by going from like, uh, a night shift to a day shift, doing shift work.
• 9:10
  Arlo Maverick: But
• 9:10
  Glen Erickson: Hmm.
• 9:10
  Arlo Maverick: same time though, like you understand that you are.
• 9:13
  Arlo Maverick: You are a provider, you're a protector.
• 9:15
  Arlo Maverick: You have to meet these obligations in order for your family to thrive, in order for you to get outta the situation you're in.
• 9:20
  Arlo Maverick: So being able to, take my own personal experiences, but also be a, a listener to other people who are saying that, Hey, like this is what I'm going through, so on and so forth.
• 9:28
  Arlo Maverick: And, a lot of music that I make, it tends to come from conversations I have with people where I'm just like, that should be a song, you know?
• 9:34
  Arlo Maverick: And so once
• 9:36
  Glen Erickson: Hmm.
• 9:36
  Arlo Maverick: bulb goes off, I'll pull up my notepad and I'll start writing down ideas, or I'll be driving my car and just put on a beat and then just start possibly freestyling coming over the ideas.
• 9:46
  Arlo Maverick: And then once I get those ideas, I'll either work on them myself or bring them to my collaborators and be like, Hey guys, like, here's some ideas.
• 9:52
  Arlo Maverick: And the great thing about where I'm at in my career now is that, Edmonton as a city as it relates to hip hop music didn't necessarily have, We've always had great MCs.
• 10:02
  Arlo Maverick: We've always had, uh, great producers, but now I feel like a lot of us have learned so much and we have access to so much information that allows us to become better at what we do.
• 10:11
  Arlo Maverick: And so now I have people I can lean on in a way that I wasn't able to in the earlier years of possibly politic live or anything like that.
• 10:18
  Arlo Maverick: So, that process then, uh, will be me bringing ideas to them and then like shooting some of those ideas down and saying, no, that's not a good idea.
• 10:27
  Arlo Maverick: Or having them saying, Hey, why don't we
• 10:29
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 10:30
  Arlo Maverick: Why don't we try that?
• 10:30
  Arlo Maverick: And then we, work at it to, to the point that it's something that can be shared with the world.
• 10:35
  Glen Erickson: Well, I mean you mentioned in there your influences, you mentioned politic lives, so you sort of, the first thing that I guess gets on the radar for most people.
• 10:43
  Glen Erickson: 'cause we all have things we're dabbling in when we're young, but then there's the first thing that really gels and starts to take off and people respond to you.
• 10:51
  Glen Erickson: So for you, it seems like that was politic live.
• 10:54
  Glen Erickson: Which, you know, if Wikipedia is right, 2002 seems like that was the start.
• 10:59
  Glen Erickson: And that was a, a gelling between you and some cousins and a friend who was a DJ and, and getting all that going.
• 11:06
  Glen Erickson: And you obviously had your influences and I think regardless of genre, like this is a pretty common denominator of we start to try to recreate our influences in our first version.
• 11:16
  Glen Erickson: So maybe you could,'cause that's where I first knew you, you were in politic live right at the time when I first ever met you.
• 11:22
  Glen Erickson: So, how was that?
• 11:23
  Glen Erickson: 2002, 2012?
• 11:25
  Glen Erickson: The journey in that group from when it started trying to recreate your influences?
• 11:31
  Glen Erickson: Like, I'm wondering how that sort of played out for that group for you at that time.
• 11:36
  Arlo Maverick: well, we were heavily influenced by our West Indian background.
• 11:39
  Arlo Maverick: Um, so that was something that was always present.
• 11:42
  Arlo Maverick: but we were also influenced heavily by a lot of, like New York based MC so it was very much, much more bar heavy as far as like, you had to like, come up with this rhyme that was gonna be like this deep double entendre.
• 11:54
  Arlo Maverick: But at the same time though, you had to also
• 11:56
  Glen Erickson: Hmm.
• 11:57
  Arlo Maverick: that would allow your music to possibly get onto the radio, possibly get into the nightclub, because those were the outlets before Spotify or YouTube.
• 12:04
  Arlo Maverick: and, and even much music to an extent, right?
• 12:06
  Arlo Maverick: And so for us, we were inspired by so much because of the fact that we were kids who grew up on hip hop, like in Edmonton, Alberta, of all places.
• 12:14
  Arlo Maverick: So, um, we had.
• 12:15
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 12:16
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 12:17
  Arlo Maverick: Which is weird because there's been a long, uh, scene here.
• 12:20
  Arlo Maverick: It's been, it's gotten bigger, but it started out quite small.
• 12:22
  Arlo Maverick: But we, um, had access to hip hop magazines.
• 12:25
  Arlo Maverick: We had access to people like, master T from much Music and Rap City.
• 12:30
  Arlo Maverick: We had access to, um, what was coming out of the US through, uh, whether it be records.
• 12:35
  Arlo Maverick: We had radio here.
• 12:36
  Arlo Maverick: So all of these things, and even like, again, much music was probably like the biggest factor because that's where we got to see the culture and hear the culture all within one.
• 12:45
  Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.
• 12:45
  Arlo Maverick: and
• 12:46
  Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.
• 12:47
  Arlo Maverick: so on and so forth.
• 12:48
  Arlo Maverick: So all of that begins to, impact our, our style and also the scene around us as well too.
• 12:52
  Arlo Maverick: Because there were hip hop MCs, there were, DJs as well, two producers who some actually took, took us underneath our, took us under their wings and kind of showed us the way.
• 13:03
  Arlo Maverick: So as we're beginning to form this thing called Politic Live, this is after years of kind of being in an incubator.
• 13:09
  Arlo Maverick: What possibly the most, important, person to that time period would've to be a gentleman by the name of Ock.
• 13:16
  Arlo Maverick: 'cause he literally like put us into like a bootcamp where we were like learning how to write rhymes or we're learning how to write rhymes better, I should say.
• 13:24
  Arlo Maverick: Um, also learning how to be better performers.
• 13:26
  Arlo Maverick: And so that ends up impacting our styles to the point that when we went into the studio, or even when we're writing now, we're cognizant of how is this song going to be performed, you know?
• 13:36
  Arlo Maverick: we're also
• 13:37
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 13:37
  Arlo Maverick: of, what is the format?
• 13:39
  Arlo Maverick: 'cause I remember when I first started out, the typical hip hop hip structure for a hip hop song was three 16 bar verses, but we didn't understand how to count bars whatsoever.
• 13:47
  Arlo Maverick: So we had like verses that went on for like 32 bars and like, there was like a chorus that would maybe be like four bars.
• 13:54
  Arlo Maverick: And it's just like, no, that's not gonna work.
• 13:56
  Arlo Maverick: You know?
• 13:56
  Arlo Maverick: So having.
• 13:57
  Arlo Maverick: OGs in the scene to help us and like give us guidance was so important.
• 14:01
  Arlo Maverick: Kada, pinoc was one of those people.
• 14:02
  Arlo Maverick: And so as we move into, um, creating our music and also performing, because as you know, at that time period, like studios cost so much money.
• 14:11
  Arlo Maverick: And so,
• 14:12
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 14:12
  Arlo Maverick: performances where we really began to understand, what worked and what didn't work, and also how to put together songs.
• 14:17
  Arlo Maverick: Because if you're losing an audience, that means there's something wrong with the writing.
• 14:21
  Arlo Maverick: There's something wrong with the, the structure of the song.
• 14:23
  Arlo Maverick: Because if you're performing,
• 14:25
  Glen Erickson: Hmm.
• 14:26
  Arlo Maverick: you are verse going on for 32 bars, then trim it down.
• 14:29
  Arlo Maverick: So understanding the 16 bar format, understanding what a bridge was, understand'cause these are things that, that we're not being taught.
• 14:36
  Arlo Maverick: We're listening to our,
• 14:37
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 14:38
  Arlo Maverick: who we idolize and the people who we see as icons, but we're not fully understanding the science behind what they're doing until we had someone step in to be like, Hey, this is what you guys should be doing.
• 14:47
  Arlo Maverick: This is how it's done.
• 14:49
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 14:49
  Glen Erickson: That's, so that's kind of amazing.
• 14:51
  Glen Erickson: 'cause like I said, like common denominator.
• 14:53
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 14:53
  Glen Erickson: Most of us are just listening and trying to replicate our idols or, you know, and, and drilling down further and further as we get better and understand more, right.
• 15:01
  Glen Erickson: Like to song structure and all this kind of stuff, and realize that like, oh yeah, pop music does this all of the time.
• 15:08
  Glen Erickson: Right.
• 15:08
  Glen Erickson: And, and you know, and for me it would be like, this version of indie rock specifically does the opposite for a reason or something like that.
• 15:17
  Glen Erickson: But you figure that out.
• 15:18
  Glen Erickson: It's the path you wanna follow, but.
• 15:20
  Glen Erickson: Not very often does someone say, I had a mentor or a person come along.
• 15:24
  Glen Erickson: You know, like, uh, so you said he gave you like a bootcamp.
• 15:27
  Glen Erickson: I'm just curious, like, what did that literally look like?
• 15:30
  Glen Erickson: Is the guy like pulling together like Marlon and his two cousins and saying, I want you to do this, and then you're coming back on Friday and you're doing your rhymes for me.
• 15:39
  Glen Erickson: Like what does,
• 15:40
  Arlo Maverick: did
• 15:40
  Glen Erickson: what did that look like at that time?
• 15:42
  Glen Erickson: What he was doing to try to help and, and shape you and what you were working on?
• 15:46
  Arlo Maverick: part of that, and it's interesting because it's, um, good friend Fabian Meyers, his, cousin, Kada Ock was the guy who mentored us.
• 15:54
  Arlo Maverick: So we essentially school's done, we go over to Kato's Place and it was either, we were, one of the things that was important for, for him to communicate to us, and this is something I don't think happens as often as it should, is that he was someone who was maybe about four or five years older than us, right.
• 16:12
  Arlo Maverick: So he would actually like sit us down and play us records, or show us music videos and like.
• 16:18
  Arlo Maverick: us like, do we understand what's going on?
• 16:20
  Arlo Maverick: Do we, do we hear this?
• 16:21
  Arlo Maverick: Do we hear that?
• 16:21
  Arlo Maverick: And all of a sudden now we're beginning to understand, okay, that's what production is.
• 16:24
  Arlo Maverick: That's how you make a good music video.
• 16:26
  Arlo Maverick: 'cause I remember had a music video, I can't remember which one it was, but it was one where we were just like blown away by that.
• 16:33
  Arlo Maverick: And it's just like we're asking him, how do you come up with these concepts?
• 16:36
  Arlo Maverick: And so he's allowing us to better understand what that all looks like.
• 16:39
  Arlo Maverick: Even Alberta music, the first time I was ever told about Alberta Music or Factor was courtesy of this gentleman here.
• 16:45
  Arlo Maverick: And so he was teaching
• 16:46
  Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.
• 16:47
  Arlo Maverick: the, um, artistic side, but also teaching us the business side.
• 16:50
  Arlo Maverick: And so even when he came to performances, like he would make us run through performances like two or three hours.
• 16:56
  Arlo Maverick: And like all of our friends who were into music, like they were just like, why are you guys doing that?
• 16:59
  Arlo Maverick: And it's just like, but then when you saw us on stage, it began to make sense because he was teaching us
• 17:04
  Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.
• 17:05
  Arlo Maverick: an audience.
• 17:05
  Arlo Maverick: Like making sure that we had enough movement on stage, making sure that we understood mic technique.
• 17:10
  Arlo Maverick: 'cause rappers we have horrible mic technique.
• 17:12
  Arlo Maverick: We just wanna look cool.
• 17:16
  Glen Erickson: Well, I mean, like, that's amazing kind of, right?
• 17:19
  Glen Erickson: Because, like now there's, I think we can agree there's a lot more people like that around, or at least people who have tried to create some programs or structures and get funding so that artists might have access to somebody.
• 17:31
  Glen Erickson: Who does that, right?
• 17:32
  Glen Erickson: Who can point you in the right direction.
• 17:34
  Glen Erickson: Like you even said, like if Alberta Music and in Canada, really all the provincial music associations have been very good at, trying to provide opportunities, even if it's just meet and greets or programs to uh, give people the opportunity to get some of those real basic low hanging fruit answers that they need just to start moving.
• 17:53
  Glen Erickson: But to have a, a person like that, uh, is pretty significant.
• 17:57
  Glen Erickson: Um, so the other thing you also said, by the way, which was like in Edmonton, you felt like you had access and you started naming some things, but you, because we obviously we had, you know, radio that was tapped into all the radio across the country in the same way.
• 18:11
  Glen Erickson: And like, in Canada we're still considered a major city.
• 18:14
  Glen Erickson: So, but it's still, Northern Alberta, Western Canada, So for a guy like me on the outside of, of hip hop, right, and, and both like music culture and culture in general, right?
• 18:26
  Glen Erickson: I'm an observant only at that time especially, I would never make the assumption that you would have felt like you had access.
• 18:32
  Glen Erickson: I, I get that much music was a North star for sure in our country and maybe, especially coming outta the nineties into the early two thousands.
• 18:40
  Glen Erickson: That totally makes sense.
• 18:41
  Glen Erickson: So I'm just, I, I'm really curious about that because I think I would've had the complete wrong assumption that Edmonton was an absolute desert wasteland
• 18:51
  Arlo Maverick: it
• 18:51
  Glen Erickson: for your aspirations as an artist, and it wasn't.
• 18:55
  Glen Erickson: So, uh, I'm just really curious if you could just tell me a little more of what that looked like when you were starting out, what, what the scene looked like, and even compared maybe to what you feel like it looks like now.
• 19:04
  Arlo Maverick: well this is what's so fascinating is that like when I look at the scene back then, compared to now, I feel like, and this is just pretty much something that's happened all across the board because of social media.
• 19:15
  Arlo Maverick: Like people don't go out, people don't actually go to hip hop nights or even just music nights period.
• 19:20
  Arlo Maverick: Like, open mics or
• 19:21
  Glen Erickson: Hmm.
• 19:21
  Arlo Maverick: just going to shows was so important.
• 19:22
  Arlo Maverick: 'cause that's where you met people, that's where you connected and said, Hey, like, who are you?
• 19:26
  Arlo Maverick: So on and so forth, you know?
• 19:27
  Arlo Maverick: But if I'm going back to that time period, like we had, this is what's so fascinating about Edmonton, is that we've always had a small burgeoning hip hop scene, that goes back to like this, the late seventies, you know?
• 19:39
  Arlo Maverick: Um, with the documentary
• 19:40
  Glen Erickson: Hmm.
• 19:40
  Arlo Maverick: been uh, doing over the last few years, I've been able to uncover a lot of this stuff.
• 19:44
  Arlo Maverick: So when it came to radio, we had CGSR, which was.
• 19:47
  Arlo Maverick: they had T-E-D-D-Y who had the, the black experience in sound.
• 19:51
  Arlo Maverick: We had DJ Roach, and when I was in junior high, I was introduced to 88.5, as we called it, which was CJSR.
• 19:58
  Arlo Maverick: And so they had
• 20:00
  Glen Erickson: Yeah, campus Radio for those listening, like, which, you know, has a pretty significant place in a lot of cities across Canada.
• 20:07
  Glen Erickson: Sorry, continue.
• 20:08
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 20:08
  Arlo Maverick: the US as well too.
• 20:09
  Arlo Maverick: But in Canada and more specifically Edmonton, we had.
• 20:12
  Arlo Maverick: Shows in which people were finding ways to get the music.
• 20:15
  Arlo Maverick: And I tip my hat off to them because at that time period, like we don't have Spotify, we don't have, Torrance.
• 20:22
  Arlo Maverick: We don't have Napster.
• 20:23
  Arlo Maverick: We have people who actually just love this music and love this culture and say, I wanna make sure this is President Edmonton.
• 20:29
  Arlo Maverick: People need to hear this.
• 20:29
  Arlo Maverick: And so, we have that, plus we have a lot of, like have a lot of like, team parties going on at that time where people would allow us to get up on the mic and, and do our thing.
• 20:40
  Arlo Maverick: 'cause we're seeing what we're seeing coming outta Toronto.
• 20:42
  Arlo Maverick: We're seeing what we're seeing coming out of, the us.
• 20:44
  Arlo Maverick: But at the same time, the, we're also seeing people from our scene who actually are creating songs like, uh, 1993, um, the Maximum Definitive, which was like the first breakout hop ad from Western Canada.
• 20:55
  Arlo Maverick: Not just Alberta, but Western Canada.
• 20:57
  Arlo Maverick: They end up getting a much music award for their music video for Jungle Man and getting a juvenile nomination.
• 21:03
  Arlo Maverick: So at that point in time.
• 21:05
  Arlo Maverick: There's things that are happening.
• 21:06
  Arlo Maverick: And so because these things are happening and we have record stores, were a big thing as well too.
• 21:11
  Arlo Maverick: Like, people would go and communicate and understand the culture.
• 21:13
  Arlo Maverick: And before, before my time, you had roller rinks where people would actually go and they'd have B-boys and B girls who'd be breaking.
• 21:21
  Arlo Maverick: But you also had the music that they needed to break too, being played at these locations.
• 21:26
  Arlo Maverick: And so there's always been things in our city, but the unfortunate thing is that it's always, you always had to know what was going on.
• 21:33
  Arlo Maverick: 'cause if you didn't know what was going on, then you were completely left out of it.
• 21:36
  Arlo Maverick: And for me, I've just always been someone who, has wanted to create.
• 21:41
  Arlo Maverick: Right?
• 21:41
  Arlo Maverick: And so eight.
• 21:43
  Arlo Maverick: I throw my first concert ever in my drama room.
• 21:46
  Arlo Maverick: I convinced my drama teacher to let me throw a concert at lunchtime, and I didn't know what I was doing.
• 21:53
  Arlo Maverick: And I think it just came from me, like just, just watching all these guys who were in these magazines, like they were entrepreneurs.
• 22:00
  Arlo Maverick: I'm just like, yeah, I'm gonna throw a hip hop concert,
• 22:02
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 22:02
  Arlo Maverick: the concert.
• 22:03
  Arlo Maverick: We had rehearsed for like almost two weeks, but I had, I understood promotion as much as a a, a great eighter could.
• 22:10
  Arlo Maverick: And I understood putting together a show as much as a great eighter could.
• 22:13
  Arlo Maverick: But I didn't understand like, the technicality of like actually like putting on a show.
• 22:17
  Arlo Maverick: And so luckily my, uh, drama teacher like helped me because he played in a band when he was younger and so helped me put on the show and the, the whole school was just like, wow, like you are a rapper.
• 22:28
  Arlo Maverick: It was just like so crazy.
• 22:30
  Arlo Maverick: 'cause like I on this show that allowed for people to see that hip hop could exist within our school and let alone our city, you know?
• 22:37
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 22:38
  Glen Erickson: That, uh, I mean that validation, right?
• 22:40
  Glen Erickson: Isn't that the thing that, like, that that's fuel for like years.
• 22:44
  Glen Erickson: Like I.
• 22:45
  Glen Erickson: Like, you do that one thing and everybody responds well and then says, oh, you're a rapper.
• 22:50
  Glen Erickson: Well that, like all of a sudden you got to hang your hat on an identity that you wanted.
• 22:56
  Glen Erickson: that definitely carries us through.
• 22:58
  Glen Erickson: I think it's funny, like if we go back, we can start to draw threads in our life between people or experiences like that.
• 23:04
  Glen Erickson: Like even from that to, you know, to the, to the people that you said were sort of mentoring in the early two thousands and in the scene.
• 23:12
  Glen Erickson: Anybody who steps up and sort of is willing to sort of put that check mark on your efforts and give those validation marks or sort of feel like, like the little signposts that we hit along the way that kept us going.
• 23:25
  Arlo Maverick: a hundred
• 23:26
  Glen Erickson: Um, I don't know if that's has been your experience all along.
• 23:29
  Arlo Maverick: Yeah.
• 23:29
  Arlo Maverick: No, I would say, um, because what's interesting is that, I get introduced to the idea of writing rhymes in church, um, when, uh, she was a girl at the time, but she's an older woman now by the name of Debbie Carpenter.
• 23:43
  Arlo Maverick: Um, her family was like the coolest family in the world.
• 23:47
  Arlo Maverick: And so one day we're in the back of church and she's writing a rhyme and I never saw anybody do it before in my life.
• 23:54
  Arlo Maverick: And so me seeing her go through the process of writing the rhyme and like, she's literally like scribbling things out and like saying, nah, I'm gonna say this, and so on and so forth.
• 24:03
  Arlo Maverick: And I'm just like, wow.
• 24:03
  Arlo Maverick: Like this is how it's done.
• 24:05
  Arlo Maverick: So me seeing how that process is done, I went home and wrote something and I.
• 24:10
  Arlo Maverick: That kind of starts the whole thing.
• 24:12
  Arlo Maverick: But the thing about though is that, as you said, those, those, uh, the validation you get on the way of you're doing the right thing.
• 24:18
  Arlo Maverick: And like having people like Kada Pennock, having people like Don Joyce who played a big role in the sense of giving us like multiple opportunities to fall on our face.
• 24:27
  Arlo Maverick: Like we would as politic live at that point in time, we were known as straight lac.
• 24:32
  Arlo Maverick: And so we're doing these shows in which like, we're now taking what Cada has taught us and we're living it out in real time.
• 24:40
  Arlo Maverick: And sometimes it's working, sometimes it's not.
• 24:42
  Arlo Maverick: And then we have to go back to the drawing board and figure out, okay, what didn't work, what did work?
• 24:46
  Arlo Maverick: But every time you got that validation, as you, as you mentioned, like all of a sudden it's just like, I'm doing something right.
• 24:52
  Arlo Maverick: So then you, like, you continue to build on that and that, does give you fuel to keep going because at the end of the day, like there's so many people who give up along the way because, uh, and it's not to say the validation is the only thing that motivates you, but.
• 25:05
  Arlo Maverick: That can help you, and reassure you that you're on the right path, that you're doing something right, and sometimes in life we
• 25:11
  Glen Erickson: Yeah,
• 25:12
  Arlo Maverick: You know?
• 25:12
  Arlo Maverick: Doesn't matter who you are.
• 25:13
  Glen Erickson: yeah, so politic live.
• 25:16
  Glen Erickson: Obviously didn't stay regionally landlocked.
• 25:18
  Glen Erickson: You guys started to find some opportunities.
• 25:21
  Glen Erickson: You got to open for some tours, you know, getting past and out, you know, we have our heroes.
• 25:27
  Glen Erickson: We sort of talked about that really quick, that inspire you to do the thing.
• 25:31
  Glen Erickson: But I, I've learned in my life that it's often seeing, like you had already, alluded to a somebody local who has done it.
• 25:38
  Glen Erickson: Like you saw somebody who got a Juno nom, you know what I mean, from Edmonton.
• 25:43
  Glen Erickson: Like, am I bound to stay in Edmonton, forever?
• 25:47
  Glen Erickson: like how many places were there to play?
• 25:49
  Glen Erickson: Like how quickly do you need to start trying to get outside of Edmonton, to be able to do what you want to do?
• 25:55
  Glen Erickson: Like how soon did that happen?
• 25:57
  Glen Erickson: How easy were those opportunities for you?
• 25:59
  Glen Erickson: cause you, you need to get out of Edmonton and then get some of those validation pieces back to say, oh yeah, this works somewhere else too.
• 26:06
  Glen Erickson: And that's a huge step in a career.
• 26:09
  Glen Erickson: How, how does that happen for you trying to get out of Edmonton?
• 26:12
  Arlo Maverick: oddly enough, our first out of town show, was in with Task Win.
• 26:16
  Arlo Maverick: And us piling into a car, driving out to Aquin and performing to, uh, the place was called Club 1 4 7 Billions, if I'm not mistaken.
• 26:25
  Arlo Maverick: Uh, it was run by a gentleman by the name of, uh, Clark, and Don Joyce was one that connected us with those shows.
• 26:30
  Arlo Maverick: He was a promoter for that, that event.
• 26:32
  Arlo Maverick: And now we were performing in front of an audience of people who we did not know in a, in a city that was like 45 minutes away.
• 26:41
  Arlo Maverick: Right.
• 26:41
  Arlo Maverick: And when you're in your teens, that seems like a big deal, right?
• 26:46
  Arlo Maverick: And then from there, from there, Kelowna, Victoria, and all of a sudden Toronto and Winnipeg, and we started doing all these things.
• 26:55
  Arlo Maverick: And it's like the need to be able to, and this is where, where it's tough for, Canadian hip hop in the sense that still till today there's not enough outlets and venues for us to be able to go into other markets.
• 27:08
  Arlo Maverick: And so you're kind of.
• 27:10
  Arlo Maverick: limited to the point where sometimes you have to go overseas or go to the us, so on and so forth.
• 27:14
  Arlo Maverick: But, we did have the opportunity to go into other markets, where we were able to not only just represent for ourselves, we represent for Edmonton as well too, because most people don't think there's a hip hop scene in Edmonton.
• 27:25
  Arlo Maverick: So we became ambassadors or flag
• 27:28
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 27:28
  Arlo Maverick: you know, and as we're going to these
• 27:30
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 27:30
  Arlo Maverick: we're getting people who are saying like, yo, that's, you guys are pretty good, or, like your music, or whatever the case may be.
• 27:36
  Arlo Maverick: Now it's just like, okay, cool.
• 27:37
  Arlo Maverick: But then there's still those people who aren't one over it.
• 27:40
  Arlo Maverick: And then you're just like, okay, again, back to the drawing board, how do we win over the, these people?
• 27:44
  Arlo Maverick: You know?
• 27:44
  Arlo Maverick: And slowly but surely
• 27:46
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 27:46
  Arlo Maverick: building your body of work to the point that when you go into these markets, people have heard about you through something else that you've done or, and keep in mind, like, and this is what's so.
• 27:58
  Arlo Maverick: and you could probably relate to this, is that as your career is growing and ascending, so is the world of the internet.
• 28:07
  Arlo Maverick: And so with those,
• 28:09
  Glen Erickson: Hmm.
• 28:09
  Glen Erickson: Hmm.
• 28:10
  Arlo Maverick: you are seeing the growth in yourself, but you're also seeing the growth of the internet.
• 28:13
  Arlo Maverick: Because I remember when we had, uh, launch Star first website, politic lab.com, we had, uh, a movie player on there.
• 28:20
  Arlo Maverick: We had we had a message board on there.
• 28:22
  Arlo Maverick: Um, we had our news, we had photos, like we went all out.
• 28:26
  Arlo Maverick: 'cause it was just like we had been studying websites for years and we're like, we want this websites to be amazing and like that.
• 28:32
  Arlo Maverick: In itself became a validation piece.
• 28:34
  Arlo Maverick: 'cause now people took it seriously in the sense of like, wow, these guys have a website, they have their music in much, uh, in HMV, and they're going and doing these shows in different markets and so on and so forth.
• 28:44
  Arlo Maverick: And as
• 28:45
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 28:45
  Arlo Maverick: shouldn't be what gets people behind you, things like that, get people behind you because everyone's trying to set up a band, everyone's trying to do music.
• 28:52
  Arlo Maverick: So when you start showing that you're actually serious about it, people start to take you more seriously.
• 28:58
  Arlo Maverick: You know?
• 28:58
  Arlo Maverick: Well, that's,
• 28:59
  Glen Erickson: Well that's, that's been part of the thing all along, right?
• 29:01
  Glen Erickson: Like you've been long enough for this career and I don't know if people always realize just that that's been the same story, just a different version.
• 29:10
  Glen Erickson: Like, it's funny to me that you said that about the website, like now.
• 29:13
  Glen Erickson: We've already, I think we've already gone through it and we're probably moving past it, maybe we're not.
• 29:17
  Glen Erickson: Where, like bands or artists that were quote unquote blowing up, uh, for one reason or another, like you couldn't get signed for.
• 29:25
  Glen Erickson: It felt like the last six, seven years, or the story goes unless you like, had like this massive influencer like following on social media, right?
• 29:34
  Glen Erickson: Like all of a sudden that became more important than other factors in the music.
• 29:39
  Glen Erickson: Sometimes even probably true.
• 29:41
  Glen Erickson: So it's funny that you said like a website would like tell people that you had, that you meant business, that you were actually for real.
• 29:48
  Glen Erickson: Because, because the, the gatekeepers, right?
• 29:51
  Glen Erickson: You run into'em and you would keep hearing the rhetoric.
• 29:54
  Glen Erickson: This is one of the hard things about an aspiring artist is the, the kind of, the version of, it's not just no, right?
• 30:01
  Glen Erickson: Like I think the whole world knows like.
• 30:03
  Glen Erickson: The artist has gone through this life of hearing a thousand million nos, but it's, it's what kind of No.
• 30:10
  Arlo Maverick: yeah.
• 30:11
  Glen Erickson: That we're talking about here, right?
• 30:12
  Glen Erickson: We're talking about, the, no, like I don't think you're for real.
• 30:17
  Glen Erickson: Like if for someone to actually say, I don't think like you're actually, For real or taking it seriously.
• 30:23
  Glen Erickson: that's a hard one.
• 30:24
  Glen Erickson: That's a really hard one to hear.
• 30:25
  Glen Erickson: And so, but the website one's funny to me because like, we're talking early two thousands and so you're right.
• 30:31
  Glen Erickson: Like most bands didn't own their own domain name.
• 30:34
  Glen Erickson: That's the point.
• 30:34
  Glen Erickson: Like most band websites were something geo cities maybe still are.
• 30:39
  Glen Erickson: Or some, some like, like version of somebody that started like, yeah.
• 30:46
  Glen Erickson: Where you could do some free website builder and it was, and it was awful.
• 30:49
  Glen Erickson: So any band that looked like they had the know-how or the time or investment to have like even their own domain name felt,
• 30:57
  Arlo Maverick: here's the,
• 30:58
  Glen Erickson: felt like huge.
• 31:00
  Arlo Maverick: We actually changed our group name because we couldn't get a.com.
• 31:04
  Arlo Maverick: 'cause dot coms is what, ma, what made people take you seriously?
• 31:07
  Arlo Maverick: I.
• 31:07
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 31:07
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 31:08
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 31:08
  Arlo Maverick: we could.
• 31:09
  Arlo Maverick: I'm just like, we need to get a.com so we end up changing our name in order for us to get a.com.
• 31:14
  Arlo Maverick: how important like
• 31:15
  Glen Erickson: Wow.
• 31:16
  Arlo Maverick: at that time, you know?
• 31:17
  Glen Erickson: It's funny how that shapes stuff too.
• 31:20
  Glen Erickson: That's crazy.
• 31:21
  Glen Erickson: 'cause now it doesn't really matter.
• 31:22
  Glen Erickson: But you're right.
• 31:22
  Glen Erickson: I, I've mean that's how I've paid my bills for my life, is learning how to build websites for people.
• 31:27
  Glen Erickson: And that was the issue forever.
• 31:28
  Glen Erickson: Right.
• 31:29
  Glen Erickson: It is like, it's like, yeah, you're, if you don't, if you can't buy a.com, you're not like, it's really kind of stupid.
• 31:34
  Glen Erickson: It's like how I was telling this story to somebody else.
• 31:36
  Glen Erickson: Like when I tried to release, I went to release a solo EP under the name Glenroy.
• 31:41
  Glen Erickson: And what I wanted to do was remove all the vowels so that like the brand right, would just be like these big, bold, just consonants.
• 31:50
  Glen Erickson: And when I tried to submit it to Spotify, because I'm not a proven artist, they refused it.
• 31:56
  Glen Erickson: They refused it because my name's Glenroy.
• 31:58
  Glen Erickson: But I was showing something different in the brand on the, on the cover art.
• 32:02
  Glen Erickson: They were denying the cover art.
• 32:03
  Arlo Maverick: crazy.
• 32:04
  Glen Erickson: I, I wrote back and I'm like, but what about MGMT?
• 32:07
  Glen Erickson: And they're like, well, they're MGMT.
• 32:09
  Glen Erickson: And I'm like, well, they weren't always MGMT.
• 32:12
  Glen Erickson: Uh, yeah.
• 32:14
  Glen Erickson: Anyhow.
• 32:14
  Glen Erickson: So it's funny how stupid things like that happen.
• 32:17
  Arlo Maverick: We had shot a music video for a song off of our first album.
• 32:21
  Arlo Maverick: Uh, the album was called Notoriety.
• 32:22
  Arlo Maverick: And the song was called Precise.
• 32:23
  Arlo Maverick: And it was like the song that when people heard the album, um, this is back in the days of CDs, people would skip to number 10 or they would get to number 10 and they'd be like, oh my gosh, and just repeat the song, right?
• 32:34
  Arlo Maverick: So it became as song, it became so like, so popular to the point where people would be like, yeah, song number 10.
• 32:40
  Arlo Maverick: They didn't know the name of the song, right?
• 32:41
  Arlo Maverick: It's just like, oh, precise.
• 32:43
  Arlo Maverick: So we shoot a music video for it.
• 32:45
  Arlo Maverick: Uh, teaming up with, a couple students from NAIT.
• 32:47
  Arlo Maverick: And in hindsight, the video wasn't really the best.
• 32:51
  Arlo Maverick: But at the same time though, we're just like all excited.
• 32:53
  Arlo Maverick: We're like, yo, we're gonna have a music video and we're gonna put on much music.
• 32:55
  Arlo Maverick: 'cause that's how big music videos were at the time, right?
• 32:58
  Arlo Maverick: And so we submit
• 32:59
  Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.
• 33:00
  Arlo Maverick: and it gets denied, right?
• 33:01
  Arlo Maverick: And then we're just like, wow.
• 33:02
  Arlo Maverick: So we shoot two more of the music videos with, um, NAIT students as well too, get denied.
• 33:06
  Arlo Maverick: They're not accepting it.
• 33:08
  Arlo Maverick: So then we team with, um.
• 33:10
  Arlo Maverick: Michael Maxis and we film a music video which we shot in LA where I saw the matinee off of our second album, adaptation.
• 33:18
  Arlo Maverick: And after we shot that video, like the music video did really well because it was shot on 35 millimeter film.
• 33:24
  Arlo Maverick: And so it's getting and medium rotation on much vibe and light rotation on much music.
• 33:28
  Arlo Maverick: So people are seeing it pretty much almost every single day.
• 33:30
  Arlo Maverick: And that gave us so much validation'cause people were just like, you have a music video on much music, you know?
• 33:36
  Arlo Maverick: And like, because at that point in time, like most artists, let alone hip hop artists from Edmonton didn't have music videos.
• 33:42
  Arlo Maverick: 'cause that was
• 33:42
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 33:43
  Arlo Maverick: was reserved for artists who had labels or people who understood the video facts system.
• 33:47
  Arlo Maverick: And that changed so much for us.
• 33:50
  Arlo Maverick: And it's interesting now because now music videos are things that people are like, don't waste your time on them.
• 33:54
  Arlo Maverick: You know, it's like the art of creating music videos has been completely lost.
• 33:58
  Glen Erickson: It's too high a cost.
• 34:00
  Arlo Maverick: Wait and no one, like, because of the fact that we don't have to sit down and wait for.
• 34:04
  Arlo Maverick: Music videos to come on.
• 34:06
  Arlo Maverick: Our lives are so different now.
• 34:07
  Arlo Maverick: I still believe in, in music videos and I still think that artists should create them, but I do understand why artists don't want to make them anymore because it's just like, you know,
• 34:18
  Glen Erickson: Well, I mean, it's, it's a promo.
• 34:20
  Glen Erickson: It always was just a new way to promote the artist, right?
• 34:23
  Glen Erickson: Like as soon as the format came around and somebody was willing to, you know, create a channel, so to speak, in the only place you could see the format, well record labels and, and the marketing departments were all like, we have to do this.
• 34:39
  Glen Erickson: And then of course it became a race to the top of like, who could have the most crazy wild.
• 34:44
  Glen Erickson: Investment videos to, but the payoff was there, right?
• 34:47
  Glen Erickson: Like the payoff was there.
• 34:48
  Glen Erickson: And, and I agree with you.
• 34:51
  Glen Erickson: I still think it's important, but we have all these other video formats now that people consume and it's in a different way, like you said, it's more immediate.
• 35:00
  Glen Erickson: It doesn't feel like, you know, like why would you, you know, invest$45,000 in producing, you know, a three and a half minute music video the way they used to.
• 35:13
  Glen Erickson: When people are getting way more engagement with people in, in very organic means through the various platforms that we all carry on our device.
• 35:23
  Glen Erickson: But the principle is I think very much the same.
• 35:26
  Glen Erickson: Right?
• 35:26
  Glen Erickson: Like, so you politic live about 2002, 2012.
• 35:32
  Glen Erickson: You guys go through that.
• 35:35
  Glen Erickson: That's a certain, like everything you've been describing, that was a certain era.
• 35:39
  Glen Erickson: Right.
• 35:39
  Glen Erickson: And everybody listening, and you and I talking both know that the era is different now, right?
• 35:45
  Glen Erickson: Like, so you release your first own own album as Arlo Maverick in 2016.
• 35:50
  Glen Erickson: So 2016 to 25 whole new era.
• 35:54
  Glen Erickson: Like, like, so you're basically, you're living in two different versions of what it means to aspire, and the artist.
• 36:01
  Glen Erickson: So let me, let me ask you first the question, like in between those two, like, and I know the dates that we can see aren't always the exact dates.
• 36:10
  Glen Erickson: So however politic live kind of wound down and shifted to you pursuing your continuing your pursuits, just under Arlo Maverick.
• 36:24
  Glen Erickson: Was that, was that for you even playing?
• 36:31
  Glen Erickson: Were you still just I'm still moving along.
• 36:33
  Glen Erickson: I'm still chasing the same thing or.
• 36:36
  Glen Erickson: Was that a dip?
• 36:37
  Glen Erickson: Was that a, I don't know if I have another chance at this.
• 36:42
  Glen Erickson: I don't know if I should keep going.
• 36:43
  Glen Erickson: I don't know if anybody wants me to keep going.
• 36:45
  Glen Erickson: Like what were you going through sort of between those kind of major pursuits for you?
• 36:50
  Arlo Maverick: Okay.
• 36:50
  Arlo Maverick: So I personally did not want political at the end.
• 36:53
  Arlo Maverick: my cousin, um, had recently gotten married was having a second child.
• 36:57
  Arlo Maverick: And, being a parent and being an artist is not an easy thing because you have to give up a lot, on one end in order for you to, uh, be successful
• 37:06
  Glen Erickson: Yep.
• 37:06
  Arlo Maverick: end, you know?
• 37:07
  Arlo Maverick: Um, and so with The Politic Live, uh, with Politic Live, uh, gritty, gave up a lot, and wasn't able to spend as much time with his, his son as he wanted to.
• 37:18
  Arlo Maverick: His son was always around, but at the same time though, there'd be times where, be on the road or now we're focusing on recording, so on and so forth.
• 37:25
  Arlo Maverick: So, as, we began to work, work on Ellipsis, which was the final politic lab project, he was about to have a, a newborn.
• 37:33
  Arlo Maverick: He had recently gotten married, and so for him, he's like, I think you should be a solo artist.
• 37:38
  Arlo Maverick: And I never wanted to be a solo artist.
• 37:40
  Arlo Maverick: If you look at the.
• 37:42
  Glen Erickson: Mm.
• 37:42
  Arlo Maverick: from 2002 to 2012.
• 37:45
  Arlo Maverick: we released politic lab albums.
• 37:47
  Arlo Maverick: We also released like, uh, collaboration albums with the, with the label and Big and
• 37:52
  Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.
• 37:52
  Arlo Maverick: solo projects.
• 37:53
  Arlo Maverick: But I was the only one who didn't have a solo project.
• 37:56
  Arlo Maverick: And so he's like, I think you should pursue this as a solo artist.
• 37:59
  Arlo Maverick: And I'm just like, okay.
• 38:02
  Arlo Maverick: And then so I start creating this album and just my doubts and my fears anyone would want to listen to an album of me by myself.
• 38:12
  Arlo Maverick: Like it really, plagued the album.
• 38:16
  Arlo Maverick: Um, we also had some other things happen as well too that kind of just led to the album taking longer to come out because the album was supposed to be released, 2014.
• 38:25
  Arlo Maverick: but yeah, there was just like a lot of things going on.
• 38:26
  Arlo Maverick: And then,
• 38:27
  Glen Erickson: Hmm.
• 38:28
  Arlo Maverick: because I have a background in marketing, I wanted to make sure the album was right and applying the funders to make sure we can get the proper, like marketing budget, get videos, get uh, virtual performances, ads, and so on and so forth.
• 38:40
  Arlo Maverick: Like that took some time in itself.
• 38:42
  Arlo Maverick: And, 2016 when it dropped, this is what's so fascinating, is that it drops and it's having all this success as an independent artist, but there's still a lot of things that a lot of the goals that I had set weren't actually coming to fruition.
• 38:59
  Arlo Maverick: I'm just like, maybe it's time to just like, just stop.
• 39:05
  Arlo Maverick: And I remember, um, I was out in, Toronto for an aunt's uh, birthday.
• 39:10
  Arlo Maverick: The whole family had like a huge reunion and my cousin Chris was dropping me off at the airport and I actually went to his place and had a writing retreat to create maybe tomorrow.
• 39:19
  Arlo Maverick: And so he asked me, so what's going on with music?
• 39:22
  Arlo Maverick: And I'm just like, uh, well, I.
• 39:23
  Arlo Maverick: Maybe tomorrow's out now it's done good, but it hasn't done what I expected it to do.
• 39:28
  Arlo Maverick: And I'm kind of in a place where I'm not sure where I want to go.
• 39:31
  Arlo Maverick: I'm like, there's an opportunity that's supposed to be coming up and I'll, if it happens, then that'll kind of dictate where things go.
• 39:38
  Arlo Maverick: Lily, as I got back to Edmonton, within like maybe two weeks or so, found out that we had, or that I had been accepted to, uh, do a third party showcase, uh, that was attached to Madam, I got accepted to play Sundari Festa in South Korea, uh, up and downtown festival.
• 39:55
  Arlo Maverick: and, north Country Fair.
• 39:56
  Arlo Maverick: There was just like all this stuff that just like came in like shortly after that.
• 40:00
  Arlo Maverick: And I'm just like, okay.
• 40:02
  Arlo Maverick: And we just powered through that whole summer.
• 40:05
  Arlo Maverick: And that was my, again, the validation that you need.
• 40:08
  Arlo Maverick: And it is, I don't think I would've stopped entirely, but I think that I would've possibly just moved into more of a mentorship role and teaching what I've learned.
• 40:16
  Arlo Maverick: But when those things began to happen, I'm just like, okay.
• 40:19
  Arlo Maverick: And then.
• 40:20
  Arlo Maverick: So summer 2017 was just like so busy for us.
• 40:24
  Arlo Maverick: Um, and then going into 2020, uh, sorry, 2018 again, we started getting more notifications about festivals and overseas stuff, and it's just like, okay, this album is finally doing what it needs to do.
• 40:37
  Arlo Maverick: And I think that if there's anybody out there listening, I think they have to be mindful of the fact that, you're planting seeds and you're watering them.
• 40:44
  Arlo Maverick: So give them time to get to where they need to be.
• 40:47
  Arlo Maverick: Because if this would've been 2002, I wouldn't have questioned.
• 40:53
  Arlo Maverick: I like the album had only been out for a year, right?
• 40:56
  Arlo Maverick: I know that was, uh, like, no, what was it?
• 41:00
  Arlo Maverick: Yeah, it hadn't even been out for a year.
• 41:02
  Arlo Maverick: And, and like I was now having these, these, these doubts where it's just like.
• 41:07
  Arlo Maverick: And maybe it could be age, maybe it could just be the time period I was in my life.
• 41:11
  Arlo Maverick: but had it been earlier in my career, I don't think I would've had those doubts.
• 41:15
  Arlo Maverick: 'cause it would've been like, okay, cool,
• 41:16
  Glen Erickson: Hmm.
• 41:16
  Arlo Maverick: we're planting the seeds.
• 41:18
  Arlo Maverick: Let's see what happens.
• 41:19
  Arlo Maverick: Let's keep working.
• 41:19
  Arlo Maverick: And it's like, it's not to say you stop working once the album drops,'cause that's when you're in overdrive, right?
• 41:25
  Arlo Maverick: the
• 41:25
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 41:26
  Arlo Maverick: it was getting was great chart activity in Canada and the US for campus Radio.
• 41:30
  Arlo Maverick: It was doing really well.
• 41:31
  Arlo Maverick: But we got to, but certain again, just goals that I had set and bench and like, uh, benchmarks or whatever you wanna call them, those weren't coming through.
• 41:42
  Arlo Maverick: And at that point in time I'm just
• 41:44
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 41:45
  Arlo Maverick: did I fail?
• 41:46
  Arlo Maverick: But I,
• 41:47
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 41:47
  Arlo Maverick: you know, but.
• 41:49
  Glen Erickson: But, but you, you, it's funny'cause you just offered some advice in there, which is because literally in my mind, I was gonna ask you the question, what, what do you,'cause you spend a lot of time mentoring people now in the city.
• 42:03
  Glen Erickson: I think it's like, uh, it's, it's really.
• 42:06
  Glen Erickson: Really cool.
• 42:07
  Glen Erickson: And you've like, you've been a, a really great influence on a lot of people that I've just seen.
• 42:12
  Glen Erickson: I've watched their careers and I've always known that you're attached to a lot of people in, in certain ways.
• 42:19
  Glen Erickson: so you're a big part of being able to offer really great advice and perspective.
• 42:22
  Glen Erickson: So I was gonna ask you the question, like, what do you tell people now when they're in that moment of doubt, as you said, when they're not so sure because you always have some voices around you, like even people very close to you right?
• 42:36
  Glen Erickson: Will be telling you like, maybe it's not your thing.
• 42:39
  Glen Erickson: Like you had some fun for a while.
• 42:40
  Glen Erickson: Maybe you need to do your thing.
• 42:42
  Glen Erickson: And like, even specifically to how you sort of told that story.
• 42:47
  Glen Erickson: Relatable for me.
• 42:50
  Glen Erickson: You know, my band, the conversation.
• 42:53
  Glen Erickson: Around pizza the night we were pretty sure we were done.
• 42:57
  Glen Erickson: One of the predominant sentiments from one of the members was like, I don't think it's gonna happen.
• 43:02
  Glen Erickson: Like, if some, if they were going to latch onto it, they would've latched onto it by now.
• 43:07
  Glen Erickson: And, and, you know, but you're talking about believing in the seeds that you were sowing, right?
• 43:13
  Glen Erickson: So I mean that's, is that, uh, is that sort of the common way you would approach somebody who's unsure whether they should, and I'm not talking about people who are just starting out and they've like, had two gigs and they're asking your advice.
• 43:27
  Glen Erickson: I'm talking about somebody who is like, tried to go through an album cycle, has tried to like do the whole thing, right.
• 43:35
  Glen Erickson: And feel like, is it, is it catching any traction?
• 43:40
  Glen Erickson: Uh, is there a next level or not for me?
• 43:42
  Glen Erickson: Like, is that, is there other aspects of advice you give to artists like that?
• 43:48
  Arlo Maverick: one of the things that I'm, I'm very adamant on all artists doing is documenting their journey.
• 43:53
  Arlo Maverick: Um, necessarily have to document it through video, but at least document it in the sense of what shows have you done, what songs have you released, what successes have those things had, so on and so forth.
• 44:05
  Arlo Maverick: Because there's gonna come a time, and it happens to everybody.
• 44:08
  Arlo Maverick: Even the most successful person who will sit on a panel and be like, if you ever have to question whether or not you should be doing this, you should not be doing it like that.
• 44:15
  Arlo Maverick: To me, that's, that's, that's complete bs, right?
• 44:18
  Arlo Maverick: Because as human
• 44:20
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 44:20
  Arlo Maverick: are going to have those moments where we're just like, should I be doing this?
• 44:23
  Arlo Maverick: Right?
• 44:23
  Arlo Maverick: And when those moments come, encourage artists to reflect upon what, on what they've been able to achieve, and just look back at that stuff and be like, okay, like I've come this far.
• 44:35
  Arlo Maverick: Why am I, why am I quitting?
• 44:37
  Arlo Maverick: And then also look at it from the standpoint of who in the marketplace do you most identify with?
• 44:44
  Arlo Maverick: And look at their trajectory, look at what they're doing and see if there's ways that you could say, okay, hey, like they have accomplished this.
• 44:53
  Arlo Maverick: What are some things within their journey that I can, take and apply to my journey to make sure that I can keep going?
• 45:02
  Arlo Maverick: Right?
• 45:02
  Arlo Maverick: Because sometimes it's a matter of not necessarily just giving up, but just tweaking certain things, you know?
• 45:08
  Arlo Maverick: And so, yeah,
• 45:10
  Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.
• 45:11
  Arlo Maverick: yourself with people who are going to, to encourage you and'cause that team becomes so important.
• 45:15
  Arlo Maverick: Like, if you have people who are always trying to find ways to get you to stop doing what you're doing, then you shouldn't be around them.
• 45:21
  Arlo Maverick: And I, and I get it because they're looking out for your best interests.
• 45:24
  Arlo Maverick: But at the same time though, like maybe looking out for your best interest is them saying, Hey, you know what, like next time you have a show, I'll be your birth person.
• 45:32
  Arlo Maverick: I'll help you promote the event, so on and so forth.
• 45:34
  Arlo Maverick: Like, things like that, that encouragement helps you go so much further.
• 45:39
  Arlo Maverick: But most people.
• 45:40
  Arlo Maverick: sometimes I feel like it's, it's like a guilt thing for most people where it's just like, well, I don't want to go to the shows because I'll have to like, hear you sing this song.
• 45:48
  Arlo Maverick: It's just like, then just don't show up to the shows.
• 45:51
  Arlo Maverick: But don't discourage me from doing what I need to do.
• 45:54
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 45:55
  Glen Erickson: Like I don't want to come and hear that song for the 10th time.
• 45:58
  Glen Erickson: but I'm, yeah, I totally get you.
• 46:00
  Glen Erickson: So, while you were talking about your own release, I.
• 46:04
  Glen Erickson: The 2016 and everything that you said was going on, you kept using the word we, which I think is really cool because we were talking about you in a, in a group setting, politic live, towards the encouragement for you to step out on your own.
• 46:20
  Glen Erickson: Like others have their own sort of like mc, creative like direction and they, and they take it.
• 46:27
  Glen Erickson: And so finally you do, and then you describe it to me, always using the word we, which because you obviously just.
• 46:36
  Glen Erickson: Stayed in the, I'm doing this as a collaboration mindset with people.
• 46:41
  Glen Erickson: I mean, that's been pretty obvious.
• 46:42
  Glen Erickson: I mean, if people don't know, one of the unique characteristics about Arlo Maverick is you have live band shows, which is still not, you know, characteristic of a lot of hip hop acts and especially, you know, like the, they more rely obviously on the mc, DJ sort of live combination.
• 47:01
  Glen Erickson: Right.
• 47:01
  Glen Erickson: And format.
• 47:02
  Glen Erickson: So, but you've chosen not to, so I was wondering if you could just tell me for you,'cause that's just a unique version of collaboration.
• 47:11
  Glen Erickson: I'm just wondering why that has been a big part of, of you and how you've chosen to grow your artistic career.
• 47:19
  Arlo Maverick: Yeah.
• 47:19
  Arlo Maverick: okay.
• 47:19
  Arlo Maverick: So the, we is actually a lot more expansive than just the band itself.
• 47:23
  Arlo Maverick: Um, when I think about Arlo Maverick as a brand or as an entity, there's so many people that play a role in this thing moving forward.
• 47:33
  Arlo Maverick: I just happen to be the face of it, right?
• 47:34
  Arlo Maverick: So whether it's the people who help with production, whether it's the people who help with, uh, video, um, in the by Natalie, my publicist, Juliana Capone, like there's so many people who are, are helping move this thing forward on a daily basis.
• 47:48
  Arlo Maverick: Then as it relates to the band, it's interesting because of the fact that I.
• 47:53
  Arlo Maverick: It all comes back to Edmonton.
• 47:55
  Arlo Maverick: and those earlier years just being at Cato's place, um, there's a gentleman by the name of earl.com, he now goes by the name of ott, just released a new project.
• 48:03
  Arlo Maverick: Amazing.
• 48:04
  Arlo Maverick: he was part of a group called City of Champs.
• 48:06
  Arlo Maverick: And so in City of Champs they had, um, OTTs or earl.com touch who was like a, a, a God to me Mc when I was coming up.
• 48:16
  Arlo Maverick: 'cause like, just the way he rapped was just like so amazing.
• 48:20
  Arlo Maverick: And, uh, Angeline Ted, who's now part of CBC, uh, and they were back by live band.
• 48:25
  Arlo Maverick: And at that point in time, the roots were beginning to change the way people saw hip hop.
• 48:31
  Arlo Maverick: they played with
• 48:32
  Glen Erickson: Mm.
• 48:32
  Arlo Maverick: band and because they played with a live band, it gave a different energy and feel to the music they were making and made for a more dynamic show.
• 48:41
  Arlo Maverick: And so.
• 48:42
  Arlo Maverick: We had dabbled in playing with a band back in, uh, this would've been as early as high school.
• 48:49
  Arlo Maverick: Yeah, high school.
• 48:50
  Arlo Maverick: some friends of mine, one of my friends, Jeff Aba, uh, was just like, you rap, but you should have a band behind you.
• 48:56
  Arlo Maverick: And he was big into funk.
• 48:57
  Arlo Maverick: So he like introduced me to Parliament, uh, Funkadelic and everything like that.
• 49:01
  Arlo Maverick: So we played a couple Battle of bands with them as a, as a band behind us.
• 49:05
  Arlo Maverick: But it wasn't until seeing what Earl was doing that I'm just like, yeah, like, we can make this thing happen.
• 49:10
  Arlo Maverick: And then shortly after City of Chance kind of, uh, dissolved, but then they morphed into the Hi phonics and, uh, Curtis Santiago was a huge hip hop fan.
• 49:21
  Arlo Maverick: So for him, he had, he was a singer, but he also rap way before Drake, and had a live band behind him.
• 49:29
  Arlo Maverick: And so this, shows were like, so dynamic and like, so, uh, engaging for an audience.
• 49:37
  Arlo Maverick: And so we see this and.
• 49:40
  Arlo Maverick: They, they kind of like come to an end around 2001 or so, right?
• 49:46
  Arlo Maverick: And Sun Tribe is the next actor we see with a band, and they're playing with super band at this time.
• 49:53
  Arlo Maverick: And she's like, okay, cool.
• 49:54
  Arlo Maverick: But it was the ellipsis release party that, that whole band element was brought back to us and someone said, yo, why don't you play with the band for the release party?
• 50:03
  Arlo Maverick: We're like, okay, cool.
• 50:04
  Arlo Maverick: So from that point there, the way that those rehearsals felt, the way that the, live show felt, and the feedback we got from that, I was like, I need to make this just what I do.
• 50:16
  Arlo Maverick: And so from that point forward, I've worked hard at trying to create a band.
• 50:20
  Arlo Maverick: And as you know, working with, with a, a band in itself, like it's for an mc who is able to like hire musicians.
• 50:30
  Arlo Maverick: I've tried to create like a collective where it's just like, these are my players, but sometimes that's not possible.
• 50:34
  Arlo Maverick: But, As you probably know, when you're trying to get multiple people to believe in something, it can come with a lot of like headaches and a lot of stresses because there's always gonna be those people that in a band who are going above and beyond because they see the vision, they see what's possible.
• 50:49
  Arlo Maverick: Then there's other people in the band who are just like, Hey, like I'll, I'll do this for as long as like, I feel like I feel like doing it and I enjoy it.
• 50:56
  Arlo Maverick: You know?
• 50:57
  Arlo Maverick: Which it's not
• 50:58
  Glen Erickson: Yeah, there's a big difference between the hired gun and someone like to cross over into the belief thing.
• 51:06
  Glen Erickson: Like you use that word like for someone to like believe in the bigger picture where they wanna buy in, where they're not gonna look for a paycheck.
• 51:14
  Glen Erickson: Every single gig necessarily.
• 51:15
  Glen Erickson: Um,'cause, because the, the cuts get really small if you try to keep divvying'em out every time.
• 51:22
  Glen Erickson: Um, yeah, that's a big difference to find somebody like that for sure.
• 51:25
  Arlo Maverick: So the, the, the
• 51:26
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 51:27
  Arlo Maverick: now, and it's interesting because I've got an Edmonton based team of musicians who, um, believe in what I'm doing and see themselves as all of MAs band.
• 51:37
  Arlo Maverick: But I've also started to develop something in Calgary as well too, with it, with some guys who, believe in what I'm doing.
• 51:42
  Arlo Maverick: And so, that in itself makes it a we thing because, uh, obviously again, I'm the face of, of this.
• 51:49
  Arlo Maverick: I'm the one spearheading it.
• 51:51
  Arlo Maverick: I'm the one doing most of the heavy lifting, but I can't dismiss the lifting that's done by other people who don't have to be doing this.
• 51:58
  Arlo Maverick: And sometimes they're doing it just outta the love.
• 52:00
  Arlo Maverick: Like obviously
• 52:02
  Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.
• 52:02
  Arlo Maverick: something that allows you to compensate people for their time, but sometimes what you're able to pay them is not, doesn't reflect what they're worth, but you know that they're worth more than that.
• 52:12
  Arlo Maverick: But the to stay along the path and stay on the journey hopefully gets this thing to a point where it's just like now.
• 52:21
  Arlo Maverick: They're like, yeah.
• 52:22
  Arlo Maverick: Like it all made sense, you know?
• 52:25
  Arlo Maverick: I think that that's,
• 52:26
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 52:26
  Arlo Maverick: that most people, give up on before they get there.
• 52:29
  Arlo Maverick: and it's not to say that you can't find ways to, create what you're doing and, and enjoy what you're doing,
• 52:34
  Glen Erickson: Yeah,
• 52:35
  Arlo Maverick: to be like this world famous person because there's a lot of artists who are able to tour throughout the year and they're living a modest life, but they're able to do what they love.
• 52:43
  Glen Erickson: yeah.
• 52:44
  Glen Erickson: I mean, collaboration from an outside perspective has felt like it's a primary ingredient in hip hop from the very beginning compared to maybe some other genres like where it happens, but not what I would call, I.
• 52:57
  Glen Erickson: Like a primary ingredient in the same way.
• 53:00
  Glen Erickson: is that, I guess I, I can't ask, is that accurate?
• 53:03
  Glen Erickson: 'cause you've pretty much just answered that question by the way.
• 53:06
  Glen Erickson: You've sort of talked about your own, history, but I guess it sounds like you're saying like Edmonton wasn't a hard place to find collaborators for you either,
• 53:17
  Arlo Maverick: Um,
• 53:18
  Glen Erickson: which is pretty cool.
• 53:19
  Arlo Maverick: the thing that's so cool about Edmonton is that, so the city, for those who aren't familiar with it, is essentially divided in into three quadrants.
• 53:26
  Arlo Maverick: You know, so we have north side, west end, and south side, right?
• 53:30
  Arlo Maverick: There is, normally it talks about the east, right?
• 53:32
  Arlo Maverick: Mm-hmm.
• 53:34
  Arlo Maverick: And you're from Edmonton.
• 53:35
  Arlo Maverick: You just know that, and it's not, it's not sectioned off like Calgary is where they have like their four quadrants and you could literally like not leave your section and still like live your day, day-to-day life, right?
• 53:48
  Arlo Maverick: With Edmonton,
• 53:49
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 53:49
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 53:50
  Arlo Maverick: kind of forced to interact with, with everyone.
• 53:52
  Arlo Maverick: And that that forcing is not necessarily a bad thing because I remember being in high school and taking the train from.
• 54:01
  Arlo Maverick: We'd have to take the bus all the way down to, university, then take the train from there all the way down to Clearview.
• 54:07
  Arlo Maverick: And once we're in Clearview, it's like now we're meeting a whole new section of people and uh, this is all courtesy of uh, my friend Fabian, who had formed a crew called The Juveniles.
• 54:17
  Arlo Maverick: And so with that, we're meeting new people, we can collaborate.
• 54:21
  Arlo Maverick: Then we go over to the south side and all of a sudden we're there a guy by the name Dwayne Ricketts was like this ultimate like mc, freestyle battler guy, right?
• 54:29
  Arlo Maverick: So now we're connected with him.
• 54:30
  Arlo Maverick: And so the ability to connect with people and meet new people and collaborate was never anything that we found difficult.
• 54:36
  Arlo Maverick: Um, there was also, there's a gentleman by the name of Stress who had a studio called Smash Bands, and with that he would produce music by artists and then feature them on his website.
• 54:48
  Arlo Maverick: And this is.
• 54:49
  Arlo Maverick: Somewhat ahead of his time when you consider the fact that this is like late nineties, early two thousands.
• 54:54
  Arlo Maverick: And so just by virtue of that, we were now able to hear, artists from our city over really amazing production.
• 55:04
  Arlo Maverick: the mix and the master is, is on par for that time period.
• 55:07
  Arlo Maverick: And so now we're able to hear them in the light that we need to be able to hear them in, to be like, Hey, let's collaborate and do a song.
• 55:13
  Arlo Maverick: So if you look at it from live up until now, of work that has been released has had a minimum of like four features on there, right?
• 55:24
  Arlo Maverick: And this could be someone who's
• 55:25
  Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.
• 55:26
  Arlo Maverick: could be someone who's rapping, someone who's doing reggae on there.
• 55:29
  Arlo Maverick: that's just how, and even musicians as well too, coming into play and different producers where I think that, hip hop in itself is very much about forming a community to create the music.
• 55:40
  Arlo Maverick: and Edmonton is no exception because even
• 55:43
  Glen Erickson: Hmm.
• 55:43
  Arlo Maverick: project, blue Collar, like had artists from Calgary on there, I had artists from Edmonton on there.
• 55:50
  Arlo Maverick: I had artists from Atlanta on there.
• 55:52
  Arlo Maverick: So the, obviously the internet has made it easier for us to be able to create where you don't have to
• 55:57
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 55:58
  Arlo Maverick: the same space at the same time.
• 55:59
  Arlo Maverick: But,
• 56:00
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 56:01
  Arlo Maverick: collaboration is, is, is vital because in my opinion, I learned so much from working with other artists and even being in the studio with them.
• 56:09
  Arlo Maverick: And I always say that a city, when we're creating music, we need to have the best minds in the room, right?
• 56:16
  Arlo Maverick: And that spans over every project I've ever done.
• 56:20
  Arlo Maverick: whether it's politic,
• 56:21
  Glen Erickson: Hmm.
• 56:21
  Arlo Maverick: to now trying to get the right people in the, in the room.
• 56:25
  Arlo Maverick: Because if you have a, have an idea that is okay if you have the right people in the room.
• 56:31
  Arlo Maverick: There's a gentleman by the name of Uzi LA who has been a collaborator with me for a number of
• 56:35
  Glen Erickson: Mm.
• 56:36
  Arlo Maverick: He could take an idea that I have and make it so much better.
• 56:39
  Arlo Maverick: You know?
• 56:39
  Glen Erickson: Great voice too.
• 56:40
  Glen Erickson: Great voice.
• 56:41
  Arlo Maverick: voice.
• 56:42
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 56:42
  Arlo Maverick: voice.
• 56:42
  Arlo Maverick: And so when you, if I was of the mindset of I have a monopoly on ideas, I don't need to get anyone's feedback.
• 56:50
  Arlo Maverick: And sometimes it could be a, sometimes it could hinder you'cause you're like, you want, you want to get everyone's opinion.
• 56:57
  Arlo Maverick: But at the same time though, it's like, having the right voices in the room, having the right ears in the room can
• 57:03
  Glen Erickson: Yeah,
• 57:03
  Arlo Maverick: from an idea that was okay to being something where it's just like, I think we've got something here.
• 57:07
  Arlo Maverick: You know?
• 57:09
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 57:09
  Glen Erickson: And I, I like the way you described that, uh, Marlin, because I think outside.
• 57:15
  Glen Erickson: Observations sometimes, especially in more current days, the use of the feature on tracks felt like influencer culture sometimes, right?
• 57:24
  Glen Erickson: Of just, I'm putting this person on because they have some clout right now.
• 57:28
  Glen Erickson: Or they have, you know, some kind of currency with their name and, um, that misinterpretation like could possibly erase what really is going on, which is what you just described, which is people in, in geographical areas, finding each other, subcultures, finding each other, like putting each other on things and sharing all of that space, not just for what you described on how the right person can actually, artistically.
• 57:59
  Glen Erickson: Take what you're doing to another new place, which is, I think the most underlying amazing part about collaboration period, right?
• 58:08
  Glen Erickson: As artists, is how that can happen.
• 58:10
  Glen Erickson: But in a bigger picture about community, the way you're talking about, how I think like hip hop's been doing that way before everybody else of like giving everybody a leg up by participating and collaborating.
• 58:25
  Glen Erickson: I did wanna ask you actually, because I've alluded to this a number of times about my assumptions have been wrong, and I've been a guy who's been like waist deep in the music scene in my community for a long time in Edmonton and then beyond over the last 25 years.
• 58:44
  Glen Erickson: So I would probably, you know, overzealously go a lot of places and say like, I know.
• 58:51
  Glen Erickson: Everything that's going on, or I know a lot of what's going on, or I'm, I'm at least in touch and yet I'm not in, I'm clearly not in touch.
• 58:58
  Glen Erickson: So, so I wanna ask you a couple questions just because what we've alluded to, Edmonton actually was a place of opportunity was, you know, um, was hip hop a strange thing to pursue here?
• 59:12
  Glen Erickson: Did you feel like you had to go to Toronto?
• 59:13
  Glen Erickson: There's all those kinds of typical questions, but I'm a little bit curious.
• 59:19
  Glen Erickson: I, I think it's important for me to ask because just the way I've been talking about is a little symbolic of, like privilege and the, the way that you don't know privilege, meaning.
• 59:34
  Glen Erickson: That you don't know, you have the blinders on when you are the one who is assigned privilege.
• 59:40
  Glen Erickson: There's just the very fact about it until you finally have somebody show you.
• 59:45
  Glen Erickson: Um, and I know like you released a song in, in 2021 called Black Every Day, and you had a pretty potent line in it about your privilege as a weapon.
• 59:56
  Glen Erickson: And it's killing us, man, like I think is how it went.
• 59:59
  Glen Erickson: Um, which is pretty incredible now.
• 1:00:02
  Glen Erickson: I mean, anybody could be like, there's a lot of obvious like, uh, fodder for material to write that song that you wrote.
• 1:00:11
  Glen Erickson: It's just in the world around us.
• 1:00:14
  Glen Erickson: But I'm curious what it was happening particularly for you to write that song, because you've wrote a, a lot of songs with a lot of subject matter that one got really potent and I it's powerful and I'm curious, you know, beyond just.
• 1:00:31
  Glen Erickson: The things that are, don't touch us.
• 1:00:34
  Glen Erickson: Exactly.
• 1:00:34
  Glen Erickson: Personally.
• 1:00:35
  Glen Erickson: What were the things that were actually touching you to write that song?
• 1:00:39
  Arlo Maverick: Well, if you look at the, again, just like politic lives till now, like as it relates to racism are something I've never shied away from.
• 1:00:50
  Arlo Maverick: I try to approach'em in a way that that allows for people to understand the black experience, especially being black in Edmonton.
• 1:00:56
  Arlo Maverick: you had mentioned the need to leave and go away, for the genre that we create for, and that was something that, that had, crossed my mind when I was younger.
• 1:01:05
  Arlo Maverick: What made me stay was the fact that I didn't want, didn't want a generation coming up after me to have to go through what we had to go through in the sense that
• 1:01:14
  Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.
• 1:01:15
  Arlo Maverick: no infrastructure, there was no, industry that was built for hip
• 1:01:19
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:01:19
  Arlo Maverick: r and b or reggae, which are traditionally black genres to be, to have success in Edmonton.
• 1:01:24
  Arlo Maverick: And I'd seen artists have to leave the maximum definitive, had to leave, quick trouble, had to leave.
• 1:01:29
  Arlo Maverick: quick trouble.
• 1:01:29
  Arlo Maverick: Uh, when you talk with some of the guys from that, that group, they said that there would be, banners around the city that would say, no rap, no crap.
• 1:01:36
  Arlo Maverick: You know, and this is, this is Edmonton.
• 1:01:37
  Arlo Maverick: Which is so weird in the
• 1:01:39
  Glen Erickson: Mm.
• 1:01:40
  Arlo Maverick: we have, are good and are bad.
• 1:01:42
  Arlo Maverick: Right.
• 1:01:43
  Arlo Maverick: and so as it relates to being an artist, there have been cha challenges.
• 1:01:47
  Arlo Maverick: There have been hurdles, and I'm aware of them.
• 1:01:50
  Arlo Maverick: I try not to make that the.
• 1:01:55
  Arlo Maverick: Be all, end all.
• 1:01:56
  Arlo Maverick: I try to look at it from the standpoint of there are those challenges, but how do we, how do we change things?
• 1:02:02
  Arlo Maverick: How do we find, how do we change things on our own, but also find allies who can help us change those things, right?
• 1:02:08
  Arlo Maverick: So as we fast forward to black every day, climate of what was going on right during the black square time period and everything like that, and that's what essentially
• 1:02:17
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:02:17
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:02:18
  Arlo Maverick: in a sense that I've seen a lot of people who were posting black squares.
• 1:02:22
  Arlo Maverick: I'm just like, but I know this is not who you are.
• 1:02:24
  Arlo Maverick: I understand that there's something that's going on right now, and we were all moved by it.
• 1:02:28
  Arlo Maverick: The whole fact of like the George Floyd situation, and many people have said that he would've died
• 1:02:33
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:02:33
  Arlo Maverick: so on and so forth, but we all saw someone have.
• 1:02:37
  Arlo Maverick: A knee on their neck as they're like crying out for help.
• 1:02:41
  Arlo Maverick: And the po, the police officer had no care whatsoever.
• 1:02:44
  Arlo Maverick: And there the lack of humanity in that, I think moved a lot of people to be like, okay, well what can I do differently?
• 1:02:51
  Arlo Maverick: But the unfortunate thing is that it shouldn't have to take a, a scene like that.
• 1:02:56
  Arlo Maverick: And the theme was that because it happened during the pandemic and we were all forced to like be aware of what was going on, a lot of people were just like, okay, well we need to make a change.
• 1:03:04
  Arlo Maverick: But the, I have another line in that song where I said, guilt is an emotion that you can't trust.
• 1:03:10
  Arlo Maverick: 'cause it comes and goes like a man's lust.
• 1:03:12
  Arlo Maverick: And so a situation like that, it's like we can't just be this moment saying, okay, we're gonna do something.
• 1:03:19
  Arlo Maverick: But then two months later, all of a sudden we're just like, well, I, I did my part because this is a lifelong that whether it's black people or Arab people or whatever, people have to go through.
• 1:03:32
  Arlo Maverick: This is a lifelong thing.
• 1:03:33
  Arlo Maverick: And it's not to say that white people don't have.
• 1:03:36
  Arlo Maverick: Hardships or anything like that.
• 1:03:37
  Arlo Maverick: But there is, again, as you said, a privilege that comes along with not having to face certain things or being at least aware that like, hey, like this person here, this police officer when they're pulling me over is,'cause maybe I was driving bad or maybe I was doing this, but in a situation which black person, like it might be because I was driving bad.
• 1:03:58
  Arlo Maverick: It might be because I forgot to hit my signal light, but it might be for something else.
• 1:04:02
  Arlo Maverick: And I don't want to judge every cop as being someone who is racist.
• 1:04:07
  Arlo Maverick: But, but for me to say that it doesn't cross my mind when a police officer pulls me over and all of a sudden it's just like, where can this possibly end up?
• 1:04:15
  Arlo Maverick: those are real things that go through your head, right?
• 1:04:17
  Arlo Maverick: And so,
• 1:04:18
  Glen Erickson: That's the exact thing.
• 1:04:19
  Glen Erickson: Right.
• 1:04:20
  Glen Erickson: I'm never, ever gonna have to, that'll never cross my mind.
• 1:04:25
  Arlo Maverick: Yeah.
• 1:04:26
  Glen Erickson: Right.
• 1:04:26
  Glen Erickson: Like that's the difference clearly.
• 1:04:28
  Arlo Maverick: I.
• 1:04:29
  Glen Erickson: Like on that point.
• 1:04:30
  Arlo Maverick: percent.
• 1:04:30
  Arlo Maverick: I think that having these conversations are always tough.
• 1:04:34
  Arlo Maverick: There's a, there's a song that I have on, um, soul Merchant called Colorblind, and in the last verse it talks about an interracial relationship where the, the couple is now about to have a child.
• 1:04:46
  Arlo Maverick: And the man is now like, we've never had the conversation about race, I've been afraid to bring that conversation up because I wasn't, I didn't want to offend you and I didn't want you to, to see it as just
• 1:05:00
  Glen Erickson: Mm.
• 1:05:00
  Arlo Maverick: it off.
• 1:05:01
  Arlo Maverick: But in those situations, you have to have those conversations because we may see the world from a colorblind lens, but that, that doesn't mean that the world is gonna see this situation from a colorblind lens.
• 1:05:12
  Arlo Maverick: Right.
• 1:05:12
  Arlo Maverick: And so if we're not
• 1:05:14
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:05:15
  Arlo Maverick: at, at least, Having that dialogue, um, because there will be differences.
• 1:05:18
  Arlo Maverick: There will be things that, that people don't understand.
• 1:05:20
  Arlo Maverick: And that verse was actually inspired because I was dating this, this, uh, Italian woman.
• 1:05:24
  Arlo Maverick: And when I, when I brought up the whole thing, and we were dating around the same time as Trayvon Martin.
• 1:05:30
  Arlo Maverick: And so I was talking about,
• 1:05:32
  Glen Erickson: Mm.
• 1:05:33
  Arlo Maverick: talking to her about the whole Trayvon Martin situation and saying that, well, if we ever had a child, like these are realities that we'd have to talk about with our child.
• 1:05:41
  Arlo Maverick: she had rolled her eyes and I was just like, I was just like, oh my gosh, you don't get it.
• 1:05:47
  Arlo Maverick: And after that, after that, like she saw like how much that affected me, and she was just like, wow.
• 1:05:51
  Arlo Maverick: Like I, I apologize.
• 1:05:52
  Arlo Maverick: And she did the work, as they say, in the sense of trying to understand and do reading and so on and so forth.
• 1:05:58
  Arlo Maverick: And trying to be more empathetic because it affect her.
• 1:06:03
  Arlo Maverick: But if she were to have a child, that'd be something that would affect their child.
• 1:06:07
  Arlo Maverick: And like telling her child that like, racism doesn't exist or anything like that, like.
• 1:06:12
  Arlo Maverick: all of a sudden you have a, a child who's both black and white now looking at their mom saying, you don't get it.
• 1:06:18
  Arlo Maverick: You know?
• 1:06:18
  Arlo Maverick: And that's the worst thing in the world that
• 1:06:19
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:06:20
  Arlo Maverick: happen if your parents don't understand what you're going through, you know?
• 1:06:25
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:06:26
  Glen Erickson: Uh, well first of all, I appreciate you sharing all of that.
• 1:06:29
  Glen Erickson: and those are absolutely killer lyrics by the way.
• 1:06:32
  Glen Erickson: It kills.
• 1:06:33
  Glen Erickson: Like it just kills me how well those land so perfectly.
• 1:06:37
  Glen Erickson: and, uh, you know, like, I guess why I had an interest in asking about this, a because like Edmonton just seems like a unique place to talk about.
• 1:06:47
  Glen Erickson: You know, trying to pursue hip hop to me in general.
• 1:06:50
  Glen Erickson: And then I realized that part of that, like how much of that is just my unfortunate lack of perspective and, and insight and vision to what is literally around me and in my backyard happening.
• 1:07:04
  Glen Erickson: Because, just because of those things.
• 1:07:07
  Glen Erickson: And, but I grew up like so uniquely, like I grew up feeling like racism was an American thing, right?
• 1:07:16
  Glen Erickson: Like I grew up, like the first time I had to be confronted with like, some serious questions was like on Fresh Prince of Bel Air type thing, you know what I mean?
• 1:07:24
  Glen Erickson: Like, like that's like, it was, but it was framed in Hollywood, right?
• 1:07:29
  Glen Erickson: So however deep it was or however, whatever version of that is, however much impact we were gonna be shown, like that was a Hollywood, that was an American
• 1:07:39
  Arlo Maverick: Yeah.
• 1:07:40
  Glen Erickson: thing that didn't feel like it was our backyard, I thought.
• 1:07:43
  Glen Erickson: Where I grew up in Western Canada, I'm like, I think we're tolerant.
• 1:07:47
  Glen Erickson: I think we're not racist.
• 1:07:49
  Glen Erickson: Like I, I had never was brought up, ever being told I had to feel a certain way about any color.
• 1:07:55
  Glen Erickson: Right.
• 1:07:56
  Glen Erickson: So, but I also grew up not having a single black person in the town I lived in for the first 12 years of my life.
• 1:08:04
  Glen Erickson: So
• 1:08:05
  Arlo Maverick: You've never
• 1:08:05
  Glen Erickson: it takes me until I'm in my f until I'm in my forties to understand how deep that is in blinding me from seeing what reality was.
• 1:08:16
  Glen Erickson: I had no idea.
• 1:08:17
  Glen Erickson: So me just being able to be comfortable saying I'm not racist was still a massive blinder.
• 1:08:24
  Glen Erickson: I felt.
• 1:08:25
  Glen Erickson: I think one of the things I, it's, I can't call it a regret because I don't have any specific thing to hang it on, but realizing later in life that the younger version of me probably missed opportunities to be an ally.
• 1:08:37
  Arlo Maverick: Mm.
• 1:08:38
  Glen Erickson: Right.
• 1:08:38
  Glen Erickson: And be supportive because.
• 1:08:42
  Glen Erickson: I was comfortable in my privileged version of, of things and I, I guess so.
• 1:08:49
  Glen Erickson: And realizing that it exists in Canada, it exists in Western Canada.
• 1:08:52
  Glen Erickson: It exists big time in Edmonton.
• 1:08:55
  Glen Erickson: so I guess one of the questions I do have,'cause I would love to know personally and I would want other people to realize is like, where, where does that kind of gatekeeping still exist in the music industry?
• 1:09:08
  Arlo Maverick: Wow.
• 1:09:09
  Arlo Maverick: I, that's a loaded question because there's,
• 1:09:14
  Glen Erickson: You don't have to name names.
• 1:09:15
  Glen Erickson: I'm not trying to put your career at risk.
• 1:09:17
  Glen Erickson: I swear
• 1:09:18
  Arlo Maverick: and I, I don't think
• 1:09:19
  Glen Erickson: I
• 1:09:19
  Arlo Maverick: I think you are, but it is, it's one of those things where the question becomes, where do I start?
• 1:09:24
  Arlo Maverick: Right.
• 1:09:24
  Glen Erickson: Mm.
• 1:09:25
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 1:09:25
  Arlo Maverick: many years ago, wow, where do I start?
• 1:09:30
  Arlo Maverick: Consider this, there's opportunities that have helped develop, artists, from the, from folk to rock to pop.
• 1:09:41
  Arlo Maverick: And typically the people who are fronting these genres are not black people in this city or in this province.
• 1:09:48
  Arlo Maverick: And so the level of support that is, uh, and opportunities that are provided to those artists, are ones in which, you know, that there's gatekeeping ha gatekeeping happening.
• 1:09:59
  Arlo Maverick: Right.
• 1:09:59
  Arlo Maverick: the unfortunate thing is that there's a, a lack of infrastructure that allows for, um, black artists to be able to have the, the accolades or the accomplishments or, or the success that we see our white counterparts have.
• 1:10:14
  Arlo Maverick: Right.
• 1:10:14
  Arlo Maverick: And so for many years, the, it has been the topic of discussion and some organizations have, have done.
• 1:10:23
  Arlo Maverick: Things to, to help improve that.
• 1:10:25
  Arlo Maverick: Right?
• 1:10:25
  Arlo Maverick: I know Alberta Music, I work closely with them, um, in order to like help, here's the thing, if you are an artist who is in the rock genre, there's a good chance that you will have access.
• 1:10:38
  Arlo Maverick: If you have talent and someone's able to notice that there's going to be someone who is a manager who's gonna come along, who's gonna be like, okay, let's take you from here to where you need to be.
• 1:10:48
  Arlo Maverick: Right?
• 1:10:49
  Arlo Maverick: And that person there is gonna have a whole ecosystem that's surrounding them, allows them to take your career to where you need to be, right?
• 1:10:57
  Arlo Maverick: they're gonna have access to grant funding, they're gonna have access to information that allows them to, uh, navigate your career, so on and so forth, right?
• 1:11:06
  Arlo Maverick: is based off of systems that have been in place that have allowed for, these things to exist, right?
• 1:11:11
  Arlo Maverick: And so I.
• 1:11:13
  Arlo Maverick: There's again, just that infrastructure that's already in place as it relates to someone who's creating black music, infrastructure is not in place.
• 1:11:22
  Arlo Maverick: Because if, my publicist right now is Juliana Capone led of the publicity, right?
• 1:11:27
  Arlo Maverick: I, she is a Jewish woman.
• 1:11:31
  Arlo Maverick: She is amazing, right?
• 1:11:32
  Arlo Maverick: she has helped me grow this thing here and I consider it to be part of my team, right?
• 1:11:37
  Arlo Maverick: However, other hip hop artists reggae artists or r and b artists, she's one person, right?
• 1:11:45
  Arlo Maverick: How many of them are going to have the access or the ability to get someone on their team that's gonna be able to elevate
• 1:11:51
  Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.
• 1:11:52
  Arlo Maverick: where they're at, right?
• 1:11:53
  Arlo Maverick: Or even have a booking agent.
• 1:11:54
  Arlo Maverick: You look at most of the, the booking agents across Canada, like they're becoming more diverse.
• 1:11:58
  Arlo Maverick: But at the same time though, they've also not tried to look for, Hip hop, r and b or reggae or black artists per se.
• 1:12:05
  Arlo Maverick: Right?
• 1:12:06
  Arlo Maverick: And part of that comes from the fact that there is no or ecosystem for them to actually be able to help that artist develop their career.
• 1:12:15
  Arlo Maverick: And that comes from a system that has long said, we're gonna get behind rock artists.
• 1:12:20
  Arlo Maverick: We're gonna get behind pop artists, we're gonna get behind folk artists.
• 1:12:22
  Arlo Maverick: We're gonna get behind country artists.
• 1:12:23
  Arlo Maverick: Like there's so much funding that's put in the country.
• 1:12:27
  Arlo Maverick: And I know I'm gonna ruffle feather when I say this, but, there was an initiative a few years ago that was based around helping develop, uh, based artist that all of a sudden decided they were just going to go to country music.
• 1:12:41
  Arlo Maverick: Right.
• 1:12:41
  Arlo Maverick: And with that, a lot of artists, not just black artists, but a lot of artists, period, were just like, wow, like how much more funding do we need to put into country music?
• 1:12:49
  Arlo Maverick: And that's why country music thrives here in this country and in this province, you
• 1:12:53
  Glen Erickson: Well, Marlon, let me say, because what I was thinking just before you said that, which it usually still always comes down to the excuse and the reality, and I don't know where that line is blurred of where the dollars come from.
• 1:13:08
  Glen Erickson: Right.
• 1:13:08
  Glen Erickson: And that's what I always heard my whole life, right?
• 1:13:10
  Glen Erickson: So it's like, why does someone keep building or why does someone keep pouring into and pumping into the rock or the folk or the country, like, uh.
• 1:13:22
  Glen Erickson: Like, yeah.
• 1:13:23
  Glen Erickson: Like they do it because they're like, well, we're pretty sure
• 1:13:26
  Arlo Maverick: gonna win.
• 1:13:27
  Glen Erickson: we can create success and, and there's gonna be dollars.
• 1:13:29
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:13:29
  Glen Erickson: We're gonna win on the other side.
• 1:13:31
  Glen Erickson: And they're not willing to take a chance.
• 1:13:34
  Glen Erickson: Or they're like, and so the, the gatekeepers are the ones who aren't willing to take the chances.
• 1:13:38
  Glen Erickson: And you, you just identified the specific one, which I literally led the charge on, which was the Project Wild, the Peak Performance Project, I'm assuming you're probably referencing, which again, went back to the fact that this was a radio funded initiative because, uh, radio stations who needed, to start a new station in Canada, you had to make a seven year commitment of what's called CDC funding.
• 1:14:05
  Glen Erickson: Canadian content, CCD, sorry, Canadian Content Development.
• 1:14:08
  Glen Erickson: And it was a.
• 1:14:10
  Glen Erickson: And what I learned through it is how much radio stations resented having to spend 700 grand a year for seven years.
• 1:14:18
  Arlo Maverick: On
• 1:14:19
  Glen Erickson: Um, you know, on local, on local content development in where they are as a part of the agreement to giving them a license in a city.
• 1:14:27
  Glen Erickson: and so in Vancouver, they developed that.
• 1:14:30
  Glen Erickson: They turned it into a contest to satisfy the radio people.
• 1:14:35
  Glen Erickson: Uh, so they gave away all those big dollars, which was awesome for the artists who won it.
• 1:14:39
  Glen Erickson: And then we tried to the, sorry.
• 1:14:41
  Glen Erickson: We, the, the, provincial Association tried to turn it into a, also a development program.
• 1:14:46
  Glen Erickson: So you're right, all this opportunity.
• 1:14:49
  Glen Erickson: So it comes to Alberta and it was all a radio and dollars choice.
• 1:14:54
  Glen Erickson: Peak performance project was based on the peak, which was, AAA format.
• 1:15:00
  Glen Erickson: It was called out of, uh, that they had been successful in Vancouver.
• 1:15:04
  Glen Erickson: They tried it in Calgary.
• 1:15:06
  Glen Erickson: They didn't get through 18 months, I think before they did what radio always does when they are all of a sudden at the bottom of the rankings and not making advertising dollars.
• 1:15:16
  Glen Erickson: And they flipped a format almost overnight to country, which in turn flipped our development program to country.
• 1:15:24
  Glen Erickson: And you're totally right because I mean, uh, he's not a black artist, but Transit from Calgary who is a rapper and, actually finished in the top three and earned the money in the second year when it was Peak performance project.
• 1:15:38
  Glen Erickson: and he was an outlier to, in that genre, even to get in.
• 1:15:42
  Glen Erickson: so you're absolutely right and it's money driven, right?
• 1:15:47
  Glen Erickson: The gatekeeping seems to still come down to money and whether people are willing to bet outside of what they're used to.
• 1:15:57
  Arlo Maverick: here's the thing though.
• 1:15:58
  Arlo Maverick: last 2023, in Kelowna, there was, a panel that was held in regards to breaking out racial barriers, which is the organization that, works with different, provincial music industry associations across Canada to help them with, anti-black racism, so on and so forth.
• 1:16:14
  Arlo Maverick: Right.
• 1:16:14
  Arlo Maverick: now a conversation was had about the Rascals because the rascals in the late nineties and the early two thousands was producing numbers that we had never seen before coming outta Western Canada and even outta Canada as well too.
• 1:16:27
  Arlo Maverick: And they were a hip hop act that was, uh, on BMG.
• 1:16:30
  Arlo Maverick: They're, they're managed by Saul Guy and they're doing amazing things.
• 1:16:34
  Arlo Maverick: Touring, like just really making some headway.
• 1:16:38
  Arlo Maverick: And you would assume that companies would be like, okay, there's a market for this.
• 1:16:43
  Arlo Maverick: Let's start investing more money into this.
• 1:16:45
  Arlo Maverick: But they don't fast forward to Drake.
• 1:16:48
  Arlo Maverick: Drake comes along and completely, uh, becomes this mega star is a hip hop artist and is from Toronto, we still have yet to see.
• 1:17:00
  Arlo Maverick: labels, or even just Canada as a whole, say, okay, let's find ways to develop more of this talent within hip hop.
• 1:17:07
  Arlo Maverick: Then you look at, we've had Julie Black, we've had Deborah Cox, we've had countless artists of different genres that, again, would be considered to be black genres, and yet there's no funding put into it.
• 1:17:17
  Arlo Maverick: And if we want to look at Edmonton Cadence Weapon, 2005.
• 1:17:22
  Arlo Maverick: Kfab
• 1:17:23
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:17:23
  Arlo Maverick: a international success, yet there was no
• 1:17:27
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:17:27
  Arlo Maverick: put into developing, Canadian content within the city.
• 1:17:30
  Arlo Maverick: Here you fast forward to day.
• 1:17:33
  Arlo Maverick: We have Arden, who is a hip hop mc, originally from Beaumont, but now living in Edmonton, he's signed to a label underneath TDE, which is Kendrick Lamar's former label.
• 1:17:44
  Arlo Maverick: This is a big deal.
• 1:17:46
  Arlo Maverick: Yet there's been no effort to actually say, Hey, let's put more resources here, because there's something happening forever Friday.
• 1:17:53
  Arlo Maverick: Uh, that was huge doing tracks with artists who are.
• 1:17:57
  Arlo Maverick: Are assigned to big labels in the us.
• 1:17:59
  Arlo Maverick: He was doing this back in 2000 and uh, 2022, and yet we don't see more funding being allocated or more resources being put into this.
• 1:18:09
  Arlo Maverick: And so the, I hear what you're saying in the sense of like them saying, well, we have to invest in what's gonna be successful, but there's been countless prea, Turner, Ruth, b Noella, Charles, uh,
• 1:18:22
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:18:23
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:18:23
  Arlo Maverick: like the list goes on of artists who have actually done great things.
• 1:18:27
  Arlo Maverick: And yet, it was here, here's, here's one thing that's that's interesting is that you could have a white artist who could have more success doing black music in Canada than a black artist will ever have outside of Drake, outside of the weekend, so on and so forth.
• 1:18:45
  Arlo Maverick: But see this happen.
• 1:18:47
  Arlo Maverick: Especially in Western Canada over and over again, where if it's a black artist, not
• 1:18:54
  Glen Erickson: Hmm.
• 1:18:54
  Arlo Maverick: the time or effort or resources put into developing them.
• 1:18:57
  Arlo Maverick: And even if we wanna talk about CCB funding, back when you and I were back on Albert of music on the board there, that's what I realized and found out that the balance had money that was earmarked for developing, hip
• 1:19:12
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:19:12
  Glen Erickson: Local talent, they had to, yeah.
• 1:19:14
  Arlo Maverick: of that was communicated to the whole community.
• 1:19:16
  Arlo Maverick: So here we are.
• 1:19:18
  Arlo Maverick: Most artists weren't applying
• 1:19:19
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:19:19
  Arlo Maverick: because they weren't aware of that.
• 1:19:20
  Arlo Maverick: And so that is another form of gatekeeping when you hire people to be in these positions that are supposed to develop the talent.
• 1:19:27
  Arlo Maverick: But those people don't care about developing the talent.
• 1:19:30
  Arlo Maverick: And then people just assume that there's nothing going on here.
• 1:19:32
  Arlo Maverick: But we often put people who don't care about the culture of the music or the, the, the, the lifespan of the music.
• 1:19:41
  Arlo Maverick: In order in places that, that will then dictate the lifespan of the music.
• 1:19:47
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:19:47
  Arlo Maverick: So like
• 1:19:48
  Glen Erickson: So like, that's a really, that's a bunch of really good points.
• 1:19:51
  Glen Erickson: I, just to be clear, I, in case it came across wrong, I wasn't defending, I don't want to defend that, that flip.
• 1:19:59
  Glen Erickson: No, no.
• 1:19:59
  Glen Erickson: I know, I know.
• 1:20:00
  Glen Erickson: I just, I'm, I'm choosing to be clear.
• 1:20:03
  Arlo Maverick: I
• 1:20:03
  Glen Erickson: I, I know, you know me.
• 1:20:05
  Glen Erickson: I'm choosing to be clear that that flip to that country thing was like a radio station doing what a radio station always does, that they didn't, they didn't care about the development.
• 1:20:16
  Glen Erickson: I.
• 1:20:16
  Glen Erickson: Program, they cared about flipping their thing, and if we were gonna continue the development program, you got, we had no choice.
• 1:20:24
  Glen Erickson: Like, it's like you're hand handcuffed, which is one whole thing in the industry that you could, like rabbit hole on and talk about.
• 1:20:33
  Glen Erickson: But the way, but your response by the way, was fantastic and eye-opening for me because I haven't thought long enough about the fact that there have been incredible groundbreaking things that have happened in our country for black music that have not seen the ripple effect to support and to funding and to the removing of gatekeepers and to the actual investment, across the board That you're right, that you would see if it was a different kind of artist right.
• 1:21:05
  Glen Erickson: Doing some of these things.
• 1:21:07
  Glen Erickson: And there's just a history to, to obviously prove it.
• 1:21:11
  Glen Erickson: And I just hadn't thought about it.
• 1:21:12
  Glen Erickson: So, And my door just flew open like a ghost.
• 1:21:16
  Glen Erickson: Um, that was weird.
• 1:21:18
  Glen Erickson: So, know, I appreciate you giving me that insight.
• 1:21:21
  Glen Erickson: I told you at the beginning, I don't expect you to have to step up and be the spokesperson, uh, in this way.
• 1:21:29
  Glen Erickson: I don't think that's a fair expectation.
• 1:21:31
  Glen Erickson: I'm always sensitive to asking that question, but I appreciate it because like I said, you've been in this for over 20 years, not just as I'm trying to make it as an artist or get my music out there, but you've, as you've clearly shown, invested in the community around you and building it and had the opportunity to see not just your own roadblocks that you've had to encounter, um, but you know, the heartbreak of seeing people around you who perhaps deserve a better shot or misunderstood or not given opportunities that.
• 1:22:06
  Glen Erickson: It should be given or appear to be given.
• 1:22:09
  Glen Erickson: And you know, and as quickly as you're telling me all that stuff, Marlon is, as quickly as my brain is doing the math and saying, you're right.
• 1:22:18
  Glen Erickson: I can't think of how many initiatives I know have popped up.
• 1:22:23
  Glen Erickson: You know, very specifically in the last 15 years.
• 1:22:27
  Glen Erickson: Like, I, like you, you mentioned, I'm sitting on the board, like I remember being on the board with you.
• 1:22:32
  Glen Erickson: It is maybe 2008, 2009.
• 1:22:35
  Glen Erickson: We take this initiative in Alberta because maybe it was 2007 even.
• 1:22:39
  Glen Erickson: 'cause people were still thinking these download cards was like the way to promote your music.
• 1:22:44
  Glen Erickson: If you remember, like you would digitally put your MP threes on a a card that then, I can't even remember how that would get read onto your computer or something to listen.
• 1:22:53
  Glen Erickson: Phones weren't the thing even yet to listen to all your music.
• 1:22:56
  Glen Erickson: So we were going to make a compilation of Alberta artists, like I think we had made CDs before now we were gonna make these download cards to promote Alberta artists.
• 1:23:06
  Glen Erickson: You know, as a, a provincial association, and I remember Dragonfly Empire from Calgary was like really busting out at the time, and it was important.
• 1:23:17
  Glen Erickson: We wanted to get them on there.
• 1:23:20
  Glen Erickson: And, and here's what I can remember about that.
• 1:23:22
  Glen Erickson: And, and sincerely, I probably should also frame it this way.
• 1:23:25
  Glen Erickson: Sincerely, I look back at that as one of my first experiences to having my blinders getting taken off.
• 1:23:32
  Glen Erickson: And maybe that's why I hold you in such high esteem.
• 1:23:34
  Glen Erickson: 'cause I, I tie that all back to you, Marlon, like your, your gentle, like this sounds almost very Canadian, right?
• 1:23:44
  Glen Erickson: Your humble tenacity in, in being a presence and a voice and saying the right thing.
• 1:23:51
  Glen Erickson: I think from that point on in my life, I always was empathetic.
• 1:23:55
  Glen Erickson: The fact that we need to have all the right people around a table.
• 1:24:00
  Glen Erickson: When we make decisions, right?
• 1:24:02
  Glen Erickson: That it wasn't just, that was long before the diversity inclusion rhetoric, became sort of commonplace.
• 1:24:10
  Glen Erickson: Like that was long before that.
• 1:24:12
  Glen Erickson: But, you know, you were, you were an influence on that at the time of how we promote and include that.
• 1:24:18
  Glen Erickson: And I'm a little disappointed and I'm probably gonna have to go back and do a lot of Googling now to, to look more into just how little has happened despite, you know, people making great waves.
• 1:24:30
  Glen Erickson: And, and this kind of just goes back to me saying that it felt way too easy when I thought about it to realize that, you know, I can think that we're doing okay and that it's not a problem as much here as in other places in the world.
• 1:24:45
  Glen Erickson: and then I hear things like that and I'm like, yeah, that's not true.
• 1:24:48
  Glen Erickson: I gotta stop.
• 1:24:49
  Glen Erickson: I gotta stop believing what.
• 1:24:51
  Glen Erickson: You know what I think I'm seeing and start listening.
• 1:24:54
  Glen Erickson: So I appreciate you putting all that out there and sort of laying down that sort of, yeah, laying all that down.
• 1:25:01
  Glen Erickson: It's like this, it's really good.
• 1:25:02
  Arlo Maverick: no,
• 1:25:03
  Glen Erickson: Appreciate you.
• 1:25:04
  Arlo Maverick: man.
• 1:25:04
  Arlo Maverick: Thank you.
• 1:25:04
  Arlo Maverick: Um, I think that in situations like that you do have people who are trying to become more involved in what's going on and like, um, Alberta Music, um, may have been like their first like black board member, right?
• 1:25:19
  Arlo Maverick: And so from that point on, they've had other people who are a part of it.
• 1:25:23
  Arlo Maverick: Right now, Noella, Charles and and Rochelle are part of the, the board.
• 1:25:26
  Arlo Maverick: So
• 1:25:26
  Glen Erickson: Uh.
• 1:25:27
  Arlo Maverick: to like be that perspective, especially with them being black women because that in itself, that whole inter intersectionality right there does present, uh, challenges as well too.
• 1:25:36
  Arlo Maverick: But we as diverse communities have to be included, in order for, and we have to like.
• 1:25:48
  Arlo Maverick: Play a role in and take the, take the step to be included.
• 1:25:50
  Arlo Maverick: But at the same time though, like we can't just be token people.
• 1:25:53
  Arlo Maverick: And so when I was on the board for Alberta Music, it wasn't a matter of being just, Hey, he's a token black guy.
• 1:25:58
  Arlo Maverick: Um, it was a matter of me like finding ways to, fight for, uh, hop r and b reggae, you know, because, if I'm in the room and I'm just like, there just to be a body, then there's no point in me being there, right?
• 1:26:11
  Arlo Maverick: And so,
• 1:26:12
  Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.
• 1:26:14
  Arlo Maverick: yeah, the, whether it's that or other initiatives,'cause even with the, the whole CCD funding, with the bounce like that, that doesn't happen when you have a black person or a person of color involved in the decision making who then says, oh,
• 1:26:33
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:26:34
  Arlo Maverick: much
• 1:26:34
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:26:35
  Arlo Maverick: for artists from Alberta with Factor.
• 1:26:38
  Arlo Maverick: And I know that these guys are making music and need to get that out there.
• 1:26:41
  Arlo Maverick: That's not gonna happen.
• 1:26:42
  Arlo Maverick: But when you have someone, whether they're a white person or a person of color who doesn't care about artist development, because if you don't make good music, people will tell you to go back to the drawing board.
• 1:26:54
  Arlo Maverick: And sometimes you don't have the
• 1:26:56
  Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.
• 1:26:57
  Arlo Maverick: to make the music that is able to compete.
• 1:27:00
  Arlo Maverick: But then when the same radio station is denying you from getting radio play is also the gatekeeper for the resources that you need for your music to actually become better.
• 1:27:12
  Arlo Maverick: Then that's the problem.
• 1:27:13
  Arlo Maverick: Because if
• 1:27:15
  Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.
• 1:27:15
  Arlo Maverick: concerned about developing a scene or developing the artist from the scene, then they shouldn't be the ones responsible for communicating that message.
• 1:27:22
  Arlo Maverick: And that's, that's the thing that's probably the most disturbed thing is that that is simply communicating, to the people who you know, are, key people within that community being, or even just going to Alberta music and saying, Hey guys, like.
• 1:27:37
  Arlo Maverick: We've got the CCD funding, we're not connected with the community.
• 1:27:40
  Arlo Maverick: can you help get this message out to artists from the community who would actually fall under these guidelines so that they could apply for the funding?
• 1:27:48
  Arlo Maverick: The Bounce didn't do that.
• 1:27:49
  Arlo Maverick: The person who was in charge didn't do that.
• 1:27:51
  Arlo Maverick: And so I remember, I think it was year six and it was a seven year, uh, promise, and by year six, no hip hop artists in the city had applied because at that point in time, if you were a hip hop artist applying or reggae artists or RB artists from Alberta applying for Factor, likely you weren't gonna get approved because either gonna go to Toronto or Vancouver.
• 1:28:15
  Arlo Maverick: But it was earmarked for us and not, that was not communicated to us.
• 1:28:20
  Arlo Maverick: And that was a huge travesty.
• 1:28:21
  Arlo Maverick: And, and to me that is a reflection of the system that's in place that is not doing what it needs to'cause reverse the rules.
• 1:28:29
  Arlo Maverick: Okay.
• 1:28:31
  Arlo Maverick: And you have money that's earmarked for country music artists in Alberta.
• 1:28:36
  Arlo Maverick: That is going to be communicated to managers, artists, radio, so on and so forth, because they want to see that
• 1:28:41
  Glen Erickson: Oh, they all know it.
• 1:28:42
  Glen Erickson: They all know it.
• 1:28:43
  Glen Erickson: For sure.
• 1:28:44
  Glen Erickson: I know them all.
• 1:28:44
  Glen Erickson: They all, they're all well aware where all of that is coming.
• 1:28:47
  Glen Erickson: You're right.
• 1:28:48
  Glen Erickson: Yep.
• 1:28:48
  Arlo Maverick: to, to
• 1:28:49
  Glen Erickson: Yep.
• 1:28:50
  Arlo Maverick: r and b or reggae, it's just like, well, if they find out, then they find out and it's up to them.
• 1:28:54
  Arlo Maverick: And, and to me, that's, that's not the right attitude to have because it, it's no different than elections.
• 1:28:59
  Arlo Maverick: When people want your votes, they'll show up to your, to your churches, they'll show up to your barbershops, they'll show up to your, to everything possible, your school,
• 1:29:07
  Glen Erickson: door.
• 1:29:07
  Arlo Maverick: and they will communicate with you, Hey, we need
• 1:29:09
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:29:10
  Arlo Maverick: But when you need something from them or if they're supposed to communicate something to you that once they have your votes and have their position, all of a sudden they see it as well.
• 1:29:18
  Arlo Maverick: If they really wanted it, they would've found out about it.
• 1:29:20
  Arlo Maverick: It's just like, no, that's, let's not do that.
• 1:29:23
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:29:25
  Glen Erickson: Well, let's, let's be really clear about the landscape.
• 1:29:27
  Glen Erickson: 'cause I, I, I wanna be really clear about it and I think everyone listening should be clear about it.
• 1:29:32
  Glen Erickson: There's one entire conversation we could have about, with something that's wrong in the industry between a, a place like radio is still has a very large part to play in artists and they've, it feels like almost all but completely disassociated themself from the local scene being a part of local exposure development, anything.
• 1:29:54
  Glen Erickson: Right?
• 1:29:54
  Glen Erickson: Because as I was told with the country, radio and state and Calgary, after it flipped within a year, the agreement where they would play those top 12 artists in the program on the air, they stopped playing'em on the air because they didn't want to risk someone changing the station, overhearing an unknown.
• 1:30:15
  Glen Erickson: Calgary country artists even once during six to six or even six to 11, I think the primetime reporting hours.
• 1:30:21
  Glen Erickson: So,
• 1:30:21
  Arlo Maverick: That's crazy.
• 1:30:22
  Glen Erickson: but, but here's, here's the fact.
• 1:30:25
  Glen Erickson: Like, so that's one whole problem we could just talk about that has never been dealt with.
• 1:30:29
  Glen Erickson: And I know people at the very top of these radio stations, uh, like the radio companies who don't love, they have to continue to fund factor like long after, apart from C, c, D, they have to, they pour money into factor and stuff, and they feel like they don't even know what that money's doing.
• 1:30:47
  Glen Erickson: They have no say in it and they don't like it.
• 1:30:49
  Glen Erickson: Now, based on all the things we've been talking about, I don't know that I want their say in it.
• 1:30:54
  Glen Erickson: But the other part of the landscape I wanna say, and it's sort of what you were alluding to is like in Edmonton and other places may have done this like for a while.
• 1:31:04
  Glen Erickson: Some of the stations had this program, remember it's called the 10 K 20,
• 1:31:07
  Arlo Maverick: yes,
• 1:31:07
  Glen Erickson: and it was like they were gonna get 2020 artists were gonna like get 10.
• 1:31:11
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:31:11
  Glen Erickson: Roco 10 K towards recording a record for like 20 different artists that supposedly fit in some format, of course, that they would play on their stations.
• 1:31:20
  Glen Erickson: And, and like you said, project Wild was a country, it flipped into a country base, but before that it was AAA format.
• 1:31:26
  Glen Erickson: That's like an adult contemporary like, uh, alternative, uh, adult alternative kind of station format.
• 1:31:34
  Glen Erickson: So someone could easily try to draw this line right between, well of course they're in their own best interest and survival, which is all of this.
• 1:31:43
  Glen Erickson: It's not the CBC, right?
• 1:31:45
  Glen Erickson: It's not public money.
• 1:31:46
  Glen Erickson: It's like private money.
• 1:31:48
  Glen Erickson: It's like we have to win, we have to succeed.
• 1:31:50
  Glen Erickson: These grants, if they're gonna support our local community, also have to reflect us.
• 1:31:56
  Glen Erickson: So the first argument you would think is like the bounce, like how many stations at a certain time were playing.
• 1:32:04
  Glen Erickson: Like black music playing hip hop or anything.
• 1:32:06
  Glen Erickson: But let's take a look at that now.
• 1:32:08
  Glen Erickson: Like, like black music is driving so many stations, right?
• 1:32:13
  Glen Erickson: Like, and so many formats and that that hasn't really changed, like take apart the side that almost no stations wanna get involved in local development.
• 1:32:24
  Glen Erickson: But the, it's such a bullshit argument because yeah, they're not like the, like the music's there.
• 1:32:34
  Glen Erickson: Like they, you know, they should be developing and funding the thing that's giving them success, I guess is what I'm trying to say.
• 1:32:42
  Glen Erickson: And they're not.
• 1:32:44
  Arlo Maverick: if I were to look at, the success of Drake the Weekend Lanes, just to look at those three artists there, right?
• 1:32:55
  Arlo Maverick: I would try to repeat that on multiple locations, and if three of those people came from one country, I'd be trying to scour to find more of those artists.
• 1:33:05
  Arlo Maverick: When I look at something like
• 1:33:07
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:33:07
  Arlo Maverick: b,
• 1:33:08
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:33:08
  Arlo Maverick: okay, where are the artists from that, like 2008 REIA Turner had, if I'm not mistaken, the most played song in either Canada or North America with, don't Call Me Baby.
• 1:33:24
  Arlo Maverick: why would you, as a industry, whether you wanna look at it from the, uh, radio stations or the labels, why would you not be trying to do more of these contests?
• 1:33:34
  Arlo Maverick: To try to find more artists like Turner who half black, half white?
• 1:33:43
  Arlo Maverick: Ends up competing in this, in the Bounce Showdown, ends up creating Bounce would be, which became a huge hit.
• 1:33:49
  Arlo Maverick: And then she had multiple hits after gets signed to a record label.
• 1:33:53
  Arlo Maverick: Like to me, it should have been a no brainer in the sense of like, let's find more talent.
• 1:33:56
  Arlo Maverick: But when it happens within the
• 1:33:58
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:33:59
  Arlo Maverick: or the country genre, the labels, the radio stations, they go to find the next, the next one when it happens
• 1:34:06
  Glen Erickson: Wait, Seattle, Seattle in the nineties, right?
• 1:34:09
  Glen Erickson: Like the whole thing.
• 1:34:11
  Glen Erickson: And then like, look at, at, uh, indie Rock and Canada outta Montreal, uh, arcade Fire and a whole bunch of the bands and Wolf Parade and stuff coming out in the two thousands.
• 1:34:21
  Glen Erickson: Like, you're right.
• 1:34:22
  Glen Erickson: People were like, oh, like all of a sudden anybody who was playing the same
• 1:34:26
  Arlo Maverick: So
• 1:34:27
  Glen Erickson: genre out of those geographies, you're right.
• 1:34:30
  Glen Erickson: Like it totally happened.
• 1:34:32
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:34:32
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:34:34
  Glen Erickson: okay.
• 1:34:34
  Glen Erickson: Well that's, uh, I appreciate that.
• 1:34:37
  Glen Erickson: I know that that's, uh.
• 1:34:39
  Glen Erickson: Obviously, probably close to your heart also requires a little bit of vulnerability.
• 1:34:43
  Glen Erickson: Uh, I appreciate your trust in talking to me about that, knowing that I'm also gonna broadcast this obviously to a lot of people.
• 1:34:52
  Glen Erickson: this is what I've always really appreciated, uh, about you, Marlon, like, so I love the work that you do.
• 1:34:58
  Glen Erickson: I already alluded to in community building, either whether it's you've, like, you sort of hinted towards like you've gotten into filmmaking and even documentary and use that as a, a platform and a and, and an artistic expression to draw proof telling out in your own way and those things, which is amazing.
• 1:35:17
  Glen Erickson: you've been like, uh, a grant writer who's probably pushing close to a million dollars of, of people who you've written grants and helped, uh, grant writing to access funding over this career.
• 1:35:30
  Glen Erickson: Like that's an incredible number.
• 1:35:33
  Glen Erickson: incredible success.
• 1:35:34
  Glen Erickson: In building support, like an artist who I think, uh, I've been watching for like four years out of Edmonton Moraine, who is so, so good.
• 1:35:44
  Glen Erickson: And just seeing, and just knowing the work that you've, like, the support that you've given a person like that.
• 1:35:50
  Glen Erickson: And then see their, career takeoff, just all these great examples.
• 1:35:55
  Glen Erickson: I, I think that probably if I did this in every major city in Canada, we'd probably find the community builders.
• 1:36:03
  Glen Erickson: And I just really appreciate, I think that I know you personally, I know Edmonton's Community Builder.
• 1:36:11
  Glen Erickson: I didn't say at the start, I'm wearing your hat.
• 1:36:13
  Glen Erickson: Um, um, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm repping the only way I seem to be able to know how on this thing is wearing your hat, but, uh, I remember even when I got it, it was important to me.
• 1:36:25
  Glen Erickson: I.
• 1:36:25
  Glen Erickson: Anyhow, uh, we've gone way over the time that, uh, I had expected to, but I just wanna say how much I appreciate you and all the work you've done, because obviously anybody who's been listening to my podcast, it just can't help but be very Western Canadian, uh, themed and perspective wise and particularly, I've decided to spend some time with people who I think are in my own backyard, who are incredible career artists.
• 1:36:53
  Glen Erickson: and you're one of those guys.
• 1:36:54
  Glen Erickson: So I appreciate the time that you've taken to kind of talk about your career and some of these different, uh, particular aspects of it.
• 1:37:01
  Arlo Maverick: No, thank you.
• 1:37:01
  Arlo Maverick: Thank you.
• 1:37:02
  Arlo Maverick: we definitely went way over, but at the same time though, it's a good conversation and I appreciate you, uh, touching on subjects that might make, whether it's your audience uncomfortable or just people hearing it uncomfortable.
• 1:37:13
  Arlo Maverick: But I think that we need to have these conversations and I think that there are, we're at a time period where, we can't just say things.
• 1:37:21
  Arlo Maverick: We have to actually, do things to create change.
• 1:37:24
  Arlo Maverick: And that's for people of color, that's for, for women, that's for just this whole music industry.
• 1:37:29
  Arlo Maverick: Because at the end of the day, like the best thing we can do is create those opportunities for, allow us for.
• 1:37:36
  Arlo Maverick: That allow us to have the best music out there and having gatekeepers, having roadblocks, having people not have access to information or opportunities, doesn't do us anything good in the long run.
• 1:37:47
  Arlo Maverick: So, yeah.
• 1:37:49
  Glen Erickson: yeah, yeah.
• 1:37:49
  Glen Erickson: It would be really easy for me to have a podcast full of guys that look exactly like me, like I know a lot of them, but, um, it, it's not, yeah, it, it really matters to me, uh, to not be.
• 1:38:05
  Glen Erickson: That person or that podcast.
• 1:38:07
  Glen Erickson: so, you know, but the more important and next thing is like to have to actually get to have this conversation.
• 1:38:15
  Glen Erickson: So, yeah.
• 1:38:16
  Glen Erickson: Sincerely, again, I appreciate it and, uh, I'm looking forward to new music.
• 1:38:21
  Glen Erickson: Uh, I'm glad we started there talking about you in the studio and the next album.
• 1:38:26
  Glen Erickson: and just the fact that you're still doing it is so good.
• 1:38:29
  Glen Erickson: Like, a lot of people would say, I'm too old for this shit.
• 1:38:31
  Glen Erickson: And you're,
• 1:38:32
  Arlo Maverick: I got
• 1:38:33
  Glen Erickson: you aate Well, I was, I was gonna say, you look the same as, again, maybe this is again, I'm, I'm old enough that I, uh.
• 1:38:43
  Glen Erickson: I don't know, aren't seeing things straight, but you look the same to me as you did 15 years ago.
• 1:38:48
  Glen Erickson: So good on you.
• 1:38:50
  Glen Erickson: Anyhow, but I love the fact that you're still, I still love the fact that you're creating your art and pursuing it, and you've found all these different ways to keep a career in music, like, like you have.
• 1:39:01
  Glen Erickson: And, thanks for everything you're doing, bud.
• 1:39:03
  Arlo Maverick: thank you.
• 1:39:04
  Arlo Maverick: Thank you.
• 1:39:04
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:39:05
  Arlo Maverick: for this podcast.
• 1:39:05
  Arlo Maverick: Thanks for
• 1:39:06
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 1:39:14
  Glen Erickson: What are you talking about?
• 1:39:15
  Glen Erickson: You're nervous.
• 1:39:16
  Glen Erickson: What do you mean?
• 1:39:16
  alexi: I'm just playing with you.
• 1:39:17
  Glen Erickson: Oh, okay.
• 1:39:18
  Glen Erickson: What
• 1:39:19
  alexi: Mom's trying to yell at you.
• 1:39:20
  Glen Erickson: or some what
• 1:39:21
  alexi: we'll
• 1:39:22
  Glen Erickson: earth.
• 1:39:22
  alexi: out.
• 1:39:23
  alexi: Let me go tell mom.
• 1:39:30
  Glen Erickson: Oh, now, now I really have to edit it out.
• 1:39:37
  Glen Erickson: Uh, okay.
• 1:39:37
  Glen Erickson: So.
• 1:39:38
  Glen Erickson: rolling it back.
• 1:39:39
  Glen Erickson: Uh, we're talking, um, with another local hero to me, a guy named Arlo Maverick.
• 1:39:44
  Glen Erickson: the conversation went a little bit longer.
• 1:39:45
  Glen Erickson: We got into some things which I had asked him in advance if it was okay if I asked questions about, you know, where I.
• 1:39:53
  Glen Erickson: Diversity things are still not cool and evidently still out of, uh, alignment despite people's perceptions even like mine that Oh yeah, I think things are better.
• 1:40:04
  alexi: I
• 1:40:04
  Glen Erickson: And
• 1:40:05
  alexi: was,
• 1:40:05
  Glen Erickson: just,
• 1:40:06
  alexi: no, that's my comment too
• 1:40:07
  Glen Erickson: I
• 1:40:07
  alexi: like that I thought things were better.
• 1:40:09
  alexi: Um, when you kind of were saying that, and now I'm gonna interject, but I was gonna say,
• 1:40:13
  Glen Erickson: no do it.
• 1:40:14
  alexi: It was really interesting to me that it was basically like the con, the conversation in my mind, he's able, he's so thoughtful.
• 1:40:20
  alexi: He was able to identify like
• 1:40:21
  Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.
• 1:40:22
  alexi: the music scene in Canada is like evolving and I think that's what most people in or out of the music scene like can identify like,
• 1:40:30
  Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.
• 1:40:30
  alexi: it's like it's evolving.
• 1:40:32
  alexi: And then, I think it's really interesting that he's able to identify within that like where the steps back
• 1:40:37
  Glen Erickson: Mm-hmm.
• 1:40:38
  alexi: being taken.
• 1:40:39
  alexi: And so like when you guys were talking about like, country music being kind of taken more seriously and taken for, um, growth and like growth of artists and growth of like a music scene.
• 1:40:49
  alexi: yeah, I was just like
• 1:40:50
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:40:50
  alexi: with.
• 1:40:51
  alexi: His like thoughtfulness as a person and like, I'm sure it comes from his experiences, but just still like to be able
• 1:40:58
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:40:59
  alexi: everyone probably around him to be like, look at this great program.
• 1:41:02
  alexi: Look at this.
• 1:41:03
  alexi: Get up.
• 1:41:03
  alexi: Like it's evolving the scene in Canada, it's like giving opportunities and for him to be able to like identify and like call out the fact that it's like, it can be something that's like evolving while also being a step back for a different community is just like.
• 1:41:16
  Glen Erickson: Yeah.
• 1:41:16
  alexi: very like profound ability.
• 1:41:18
  Glen Erickson: Yeah, I agree.
• 1:41:19
  Glen Erickson: Which is why I felt pretty confident asking him to speak to it, you know?
• 1:41:24
  Glen Erickson: Um, the last thing I was gonna talk to you about was I feel like I'm in a, I, I don't know how this happens.
• 1:41:31
  Glen Erickson: I feel like I'm in a dry spell with new music again, it's like the second, third time already in 2025.
• 1:41:37
  Glen Erickson: Like, I've had these like, oh, this new, I don't know.
• 1:41:40
  Glen Erickson: Is there anything new?
• 1:41:41
  Glen Erickson: I'm, is there something I'm missing?
• 1:41:42
  Glen Erickson: Am I just too busy and not paying attention?
• 1:41:45
  alexi: I don't know.
• 1:41:45
  alexi: I've been
• 1:41:46
  Glen Erickson: Is it just a slow year?
• 1:41:48
  alexi: maybe it's a slow year.
• 1:41:49
  alexi: I've been in
• 1:41:50
  Glen Erickson: I.
• 1:41:50
  alexi: weird.
• 1:41:51
  alexi: Like, I don't even know how I describe the genre I'm in right now because when I get into finals, I need to listen to things that are
• 1:41:58
  Glen Erickson: Your genre has sounded like Zach Bryan
• 1:42:00
  alexi: when I cook
• 1:42:01
  Glen Erickson: all the time after school.
• 1:42:02
  Glen Erickson: When I come back after work,
• 1:42:04
  alexi: Okay, okay.
• 1:42:06
  alexi: But that's'cause there has been some new artists emerging in the kind of country pop country scene, but,
• 1:42:10
  Glen Erickson: do they all sound like Zach Bryan?
• 1:42:12
  Glen Erickson: And that's how I can't tell the difference.
• 1:42:14
  alexi: But
• 1:42:14
  Glen Erickson: Oh, okay.
• 1:42:15
  alexi: aside from that,
• 1:42:16
  Glen Erickson: the, who's the guy you?
• 1:42:17
  Glen Erickson: Who did you play 18 times in a row?
• 1:42:19
  alexi: oh, uh, Evan Honer.
• 1:42:20
  Glen Erickson: Evan Hoener.
• 1:42:21
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 1:42:22
  alexi: Because he has, um, that was the one that take me as I come.
• 1:42:25
  alexi: And then also Bo Alec, those two sound very similar.
• 1:42:29
  Glen Erickson: Well, you've talked about, yeah, you're right.
• 1:42:31
  Glen Erickson: I thought the first time you played, I.
• 1:42:32
  Glen Erickson: the Evan dude that it was the bo dude, so I, that, that says all that right there.
• 1:42:37
  alexi: know what I've gotten into, and it stemmed from finals, this playlist I made was trying to like,
• 1:42:43
  Glen Erickson: You have to say it.
• 1:42:44
  Glen Erickson: We're not a visual podcast yet.
• 1:42:46
  alexi: playlist 63, because I couldn't come up with a title.
• 1:42:49
  Glen Erickson: Oh, you made your own.
• 1:42:50
  Glen Erickson: I get it.
• 1:42:51
  Glen Erickson: Sorry, I thought you meant this playlist.
• 1:42:52
  Glen Erickson: Like, okay.
• 1:42:53
  alexi: the same.
• 1:42:54
  alexi: Like if you listened to it, start to finish the whole four hours, whatever it is, you'd be like, yeah, this is like curated.
• 1:43:01
  alexi: Well, like these are all the same, like same energy, whatever.
• 1:43:04
  alexi: But I can't place my finger like the
• 1:43:07
  Glen Erickson: I love the confidence.
• 1:43:08
  Glen Erickson: That's great.
• 1:43:09
  alexi: soul jazz, like neo soul something.
• 1:43:13
  Glen Erickson: What,
• 1:43:14
  alexi: And it's like.
• 1:43:15
  Glen Erickson: you're not even 20, I don't think you get to use the word neo in front of anything yet.
• 1:43:19
  Glen Erickson: I.
• 1:43:19
  alexi: but like what it's giving and I don't know, it's like super
• 1:43:24
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 1:43:25
  alexi: listening to, but it's something I don't wanna put you on because I know I would play it for you and you'd or
• 1:43:30
  Glen Erickson: What do you mean I scoff?
• 1:43:31
  Glen Erickson: I've never scoffed at anything you've done yet.
• 1:43:33
  Glen Erickson: Except, except that when you start listening to jazz that your boyfriend influenced you on.
• 1:43:39
  Glen Erickson: That's the only time I scoff.
• 1:43:41
  Glen Erickson: I know.
• 1:43:42
  Glen Erickson: Uh, that's fair.
• 1:43:43
  Glen Erickson: That's fair.
• 1:43:44
  Glen Erickson: But since I, I thought since I don't have any new music to push on people myself,
• 1:43:49
  alexi: to
• 1:43:49
  Glen Erickson: I should do.
• 1:43:51
  alexi: release?
• 1:43:51
  Glen Erickson: What?
• 1:43:53
  alexi: Like do you have the release.
• 1:43:54
  Glen Erickson: No, it's so, I know, but that seems so like overly curated.
• 1:43:59
  Glen Erickson: It's like listening to a, like a mainstream radio station to me of them just, here's the latest single put out by somebody's big label who's paying for all the promotion.
• 1:44:10
  alexi: what then?
• 1:44:11
  Glen Erickson: You know how, I don't know why.
• 1:44:12
  alexi: Maybe
• 1:44:13
  Glen Erickson: I'm just like,
• 1:44:14
  alexi: that.
• 1:44:14
  alexi: 'cause mine's like.
• 1:44:15
  Glen Erickson: well, that's me.
• 1:44:16
  Glen Erickson: I'm a little, that's the old jaded punky in me coming out saying I don't like anything.
• 1:44:21
  Glen Erickson: The man tries to tell me I have to listen to, but I should, I should be better than that.
• 1:44:26
  Glen Erickson: I, um, well, I thought that since yours has what?
• 1:44:30
  alexi: like it's been like popping up some nice songs for me lately that I've been able to deep dive into some new bands.
• 1:44:36
  Glen Erickson: Okay, I'll try to not like spoil that youthful enthusiasm.
• 1:44:40
  Glen Erickson: I thought since I didn't have anything that I would take the opportunity to at least remind people we're going into.
• 1:44:47
  Glen Erickson: We're in April here, we're heading into May.
• 1:44:50
  Glen Erickson: Uh, when this comes out.
• 1:44:52
  Glen Erickson: Um, that, past artists like the one you just mentioned, Robin Cizik has, uh, released another single that people could go and check out if they enjoyed her conversation and what she does.
• 1:45:02
  Glen Erickson: And going all the way back to the og, uh, Dan Mangan has been releasing a couple of singles coming out towards his, the full length album in the fall, and he will, he will be on tour around Canada and I know he hits us.
• 1:45:18
  Glen Erickson: In September, I think at some point, yeah.
• 1:45:20
  Glen Erickson: So people can pay attention and they should keep an eye out for that if they haven't already.
• 1:45:25
  Glen Erickson: So a couple, couple weeks in a row of my backyard, hometown heroes, which has been pretty cool.
• 1:45:31
  Glen Erickson: So, uh, that's it.
• 1:45:33
  Glen Erickson: That's all for tonight.
• 1:45:34
  alexi: Okay.
• 1:45:34
  Glen Erickson: Okay.
• 1:45:34
  Glen Erickson: Bye.
• 1:45:35
  Glen Erickson: Thank you.
• 1:45:35
  Glen Erickson: Love you.