Latest / CEOs and ABCs / Charisse Hughes (Estee Lauder, Pandora, Kellogg, Kellanova) A Conversation on: Alignment in the Workplace, The Relationship Between CMO & CFO & Choosing Presence #029

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Charisse Hughes (Estee Lauder, Pandora, Kellogg, Kellanova) A Conversation on: Alignment in the Workplace, The Relationship Between CMO & CFO & Choosing Presence #029 · CEOs and ABCs

• 0:00
  Speaker A: I felt like I was just on this hamster wheel and that I needed to kind of have more balance in my life. Family and friends alike told me that this was, of course, career suicide, that you just don't leave a good job before you have another. But I knew in my soul that this was something I needed to do, and staying out of fear was going to be a much bigger risk. Nobody's going to hand you the clarity or the balance or the presence of. You just have to choose it.
• 0:28
  Speaker B: Welcome to CEOs and ABCs. Real stories from execs who lead at work and show up at home. Career moves, parenting wins and fails, and everything in between. I'm your host, Kevin Rice. Here's today's episode. Welcome back to CEOs and ABCs. Our guest today is Shareese Hughes. Shareese has led marketing and growth at some of the world's most iconic consumer brands, from Estee Lauder to Pandora, and most recently, Kellogg's. She served as chief Marketing officer, sat on the board of Crocs. She's been recognized by Forbes and was named CMO of the Year by Consumer Goods Technology in 2022. This conversation is not just about career success. It's about the choices behind it. Shareese talks about being raised by a single mother and how it shaped her values of education, independence, and the power of community. She shares what it felt like to be on the fast track, getting promoted, traveling the world and. And realizing that achievement had become her whole story. She talks about the decision to step away, create some space, and come back clear about what really matters. We also talk about family, becoming a bonus mother to twins, leadership under pressure, and why presence is something we have to choose. And just in the short amount of time I've gotten to know her, she's a very amazing, inspirational woman. So, Shareese, thank you so much for being here.
• 1:44
  Speaker A: Kevin, thank you so much for having me. I am so excited to have this conversation.
• 1:49
  Speaker B: Well, if. If you don't mind, I'd love to just start at the beginning, because I know you grew up in Chicago. You were an only child, you were raised by a single mother. And I'm just always interested to know, how did that early environment shape the woman that you've become today?
• 2:04
  Speaker A: Well, that's such a great question. And I have to give a lot of love and energy to my mother, but also to my grandmother. So my grandparents raised nine children. Uh, my grandmother was a homemaker. She never had a formal education, but she was very focused and clearly communicated to me the importance of education. Throughout my life. Um, but also the importance of. Of faith and being true to who I am. And that carried through to my mother. Uh, my mother, she was a bookworm. She's a self professed bookworm. She graduated from college in three years, and then she moved Chicago as an independent woman, as one does, and took on the beginning of her career as an educator. For 33 years while she raised me. She went on to get two master's degrees. And then her life culminated in sort of what I like to call sort of your third act, which was she became the first African American woman in the history of the Illinois State Commerce Commission, so the 98 year history, to be nominated and to be confirmed in that role. And so she did that at maybe it was 2005 or something like that. So those kind of. Through lines around faith, around education, around lifelong learning, around family and the importance of family all sort of shaped who I am and independence. I forgot about independence because she certainly was an independent woman. And I view myself as being that even though I now am married and, you know, have two children, Independence is a state of mind.
• 3:49
  Speaker B: I. I like to say that's amazing. You. I can just hear the pride coming from you as you talk about your mom and your grandmother. And it seems like you also learned or maybe they fostered a sense of, like, ambition with you. Like when you were growing up. What. What did you learn about achievement and like, what was expected of you? Like, what was kind of your vision for life or dreams when you were younger and that kind of materialize into who you are today?
• 4:20
  Speaker A: Yeah, that's a really good question. And funny enough, my mother, being an educator, she wasn't like the type of parent who was like, oh, I need to see your homework, or, you know, you need to get all A's on your test. She. Her mindset was 1. To thine own self be true. You know, be your. And be your best self. So show up and be your best self at every turn. And I think naturally, because I'm an only child and because my mother had achieved so much, that the expectation was that I would also do the same. I didn't really know what that looked like, frankly. So I knew I would go to college. And the expectation was that I was gonna go to a historically black institution. Cause my mother said, that's the only school I'm gonna pay for. And so I. I knew I would go there. And I didn't know which one. There were, you know, many, many to choose from. And I decided to go to Howard University in Washington, D.C. and, and coming out of Howard, I actually did not have a job. I actually went in as an engineering major, but then shifted my major to, to finance. And I came out and I didn't, I didn't have a job. So that was a moment of confusion and challenge. This spirit of sort of leveraging your network and connecting with people, knowing that you may not start in the perfect role, but you start somewhere and you make progress. Every single day was a part of that mantra. So I went to work at Northwest Airlines and I worked in financial planning and analysis. And I would say the airline industry and actually finance wasn't necessarily what I saw myself doing coming out of college and certainly wasn't even when I got into the role. But I learned a ton and I was exposed to some really cool and interesting people who all had MBAs. And so I thought, hmm, that could be a path for me. But I think what she really instilled is be open minded, learn from those around you, continue to challenge yourself and raise the bar, but keep being experimental. And I, I really, I really think that has stuck with me.
• 6:29
  Speaker B: Isn't it so funny we expect college students to declare their majors at the beginning of their university. I was a agricultural business major.
• 6:38
  Speaker A: Wow.
• 6:38
  Speaker B: And all my peers were going to run dairy farms. I thought I was going to go into like renewable energies. And then I did absolutely nothing with that major. I started a tech company.
• 6:50
  Speaker A: Yeah, look at that. I mean, renewable energy would be interesting right now, wouldn't it?
• 6:55
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 6:56
  Speaker A: We all have to find our path.
• 6:59
  Speaker B: I'm curious, in those early years, because you, you were in finance and then you went into corporate development at Sara Lee, did you have an idea of where you wanted to go or like, what version of success were you chasing at that point?
• 7:12
  Speaker A: I think that's a really provocative one. In fact, when I talked to you and we talked about my grandmother and beauty and how every single day she would get up and put her makeup on, whether she was going to the grocery store or she was going to pay a bill, she just always looked like really put together. And the other sort of moment in my, in my upbringing that comes to mind is that my very first language that I took was French. And so When I turned 15, my mother and my aunt took me to Paris. And that was my first sort of trip abroad. And as I reflect upon it now, I can see that those types of refinement and that luxury sort of cachet is a part of. I didn't realize it at the time, but Certainly it became a part of what resonated with and how I, you know, and what I aspire to, frankly. So when I was at Sara Lee and I had the opportunity to go from corporate development to my first marketing role, it happened to be in New York with Ralph Lauren Intimates. So there was already sort of this luxury essence there. I thought, ooh, that's very mysterious. And, you know, what could I learn from working with Ralph Lauren? And so I had the opportunity to do that. It was a licensed business that we were developing in intimate apparel. And I had an opportunity to be in New York and to go into Ralph's office to learn from their merchandiser and their designers. And I think that all of that was a part. Was a part, was shaping me into this ultimately this beauty and luxury marketer. And so those are some really fun memories that I. You are bringing back and that I'm actually going to. Taking my, my kids for the first time to Paris Memorial Day weekend so they'll get a chance to see what I, what I saw and what I've experienced over the years as I've traveled there.
• 9:19
  Speaker B: That's amazing. I. I didn't travel at all as a kid, and now that I have my own children, travel has become such a big part of our life. I feel like it's a gift that we can give to our children to help them just have a bigger view of the world and realize that, you know, their community is really important. But there's such a bigger world out there and people do things so much differently.
• 9:40
  Speaker A: I love that. You know, one other thing that comes to mind that I think you should know is that while my mother was teaching, she taught in the south side of Chicago. But there were housing projects at that time, and they had schools in the center of those projects. So essentially, you were just in your environment and you never left. And one of the things that my mother would do on occasion is bring her girl student, her female students over to our house to spend the night. So she was essentially pulling them out of their environment to expose them to our environment, which was, you know, middle class environment. But on the, on the other side of that, she was showing me that, you know, even though I was an only child and arguably, some might say, a spoiled kid, that there were other kids who looked like me that had very different experiences and upbringing. And so that also, you know, instills in me, which is why I'm really focused on my community and giving back and making sure that, you know, my legacy is, is one of community and, and thinking broadly about people who look like me and, and other underserved groups is because I live that.
• 10:55
  Speaker B: That's a really special, like, memory.
• 10:58
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 11:00
  Speaker B: I'm curious because you made the move from finance and M and A into marketing and like business growth. What did that early experience in finance at M and A teach you about business that made like, gave you the foundation to be a really incredible marketer later in your career?
• 11:20
  Speaker A: Yeah, I, I actually love the fact that I started my career in finance. It is, it gave me two things. One, just a con. Commercial sensibility, like knowing that you gotta tie your actions and activities to outcomes because that's what everybody in the C suite is thinking about and looking for. And that's what makes businesses thrive and grow. So that's number one. But it also taught me the language of the cfo and I think that has helped me throughout my career in terms of being able to connect with those finance professionals, those CFOs and those business leaders as I translate what we're doing in marketing into sort of real outcomes for the business. And just creating that connection is so critically important. You know, you probably read a million articles a year about how CMOs and CFOs just aren't speaking the same language. And that is, I think, to me, an incredible unlock. And you know, one of the things that I often reflect on is my time at Estee Lauder. You know, very early days, brand builders didn't really have a lot of data or, you know, insights or tools to even measure, but we were pulling those together regardless. So I wanted to run a test, a cut test, a product and use test, or I wanted to make sure that I did a focus group, you know, doing all the things that you can to bring some data and some insight and some information to your decision making for me was really, really important. And so when, frankly when analytics and all of the digital and data that was being kicked off from digital and social, that got me really energized and excited because I knew that this was the beginning of sort of this data driven path for marketing. And so I, you know, it, it was the impetus for me to take the opportunity that I did at Pandora.
• 13:24
  Speaker B: Yeah. Which data analytics became a really important part of the role. And that's right. Career as well. But when you made the move from finance to marketing, you also made a move to New York. Right. What, what gave you the courage to make such a big transition both in your career and physically where you were living?
• 13:44
  Speaker A: You know, it's interesting, the woman who I had worked with in corporate development. She was Argentinian, and she had taken the role first. And she called me nine months after taking the role, and she said, you know, Shareese, this role is going to be available because I've decided to go back to my home country, and I really think you should consider it. And I would say that I didn't immediately respond in a positive way because I just bought a little, cute little condo in Chicago. But I was seeking an opportunity in marketing, and so I decided to take the leap. It was a. It was a difficult choice, but for me, the opportunity and seizing upon opportunity was something that I've always done. I always wanted to kind of try something new and get that. That unique experience that would shape my. My path. Remember, I didn't know exactly where I was going. I knew I wanted to be in marketing, but I didn't really know why or what it would be like to work in marketing. So I had to experiment. And so I said, okay, I should try this. And what I found over the course of my career is by sort of taking those opportunities that may not have been how I designed my life, quote, unquote, they unlock and open, you know, other doors that help shape. Shape my path.
• 15:09
  Speaker B: Well. And that decision launched, really, a period of your career that I assume you feel was probably a pinnacle moment in your career. When, when you did make the move and you started at Estee Lauder, did you ever have the feeling of, oh, no, what did I get myself into? Or was it more of like, this is where I'm meant to be?
• 15:30
  Speaker A: I would say I said to myself, this is where I'm meant to be. Because, remember, right before that, I worked at Avon and I learned a ton. So foundational understanding around mass beauty really focused on the P and L and costs because it was a. It was an affordable brand. But I said to myself, because another friend, once again, another friend, had gone to Estee. And I thought to myself, you know, if you're really going to be in beauty, and you need to be in prestige beauty, because that's where true beauty is done. And so when she called me and said, I think there are other opportunities over here, I don't know if you're interested, I started to explore what those were. And I met my very first boss, who remains an incredible mentor of mine today, and he hired me. And so when I got there, I thought, you know what? I. This is where I'm supposed to be. This is the flagship brand in the portfolio. It's got skincare. I've worked on skincare. It's got makeup, which, you know, I want to develop in a better understanding. I had worked in fragrances at Avon, so all of that sort of seemed to come. Came to life for me in a very sort of powerful way.
• 16:41
  Speaker B: Right. Because at Estee Lauder, you were promoted, like, every two years, Right? I was. You were leading the flagship brand, and that's. I mean, they have, what, 30 brands in their portfolio, probably 40 years now.
• 16:55
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
• 16:55
  Speaker B: And you were leading the flagship. Take me into that season of. Of maybe not necessarily just your career, but, like, what did your personal life look like during that season for you?
• 17:06
  Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, this is the tough part as I reflect on that time, because it was an amazing time for my career. So, you know, I'm getting promoted every two years. I am traveling like crazy to Asia and to Europe and doing sales meetings in the US So I'm just flying and it. Just living the life of a beauty exec and, you know, fashion and all of these. These fabulous things. But when I sort of really think about it beyond the professional, there was not a whole lot happening. I was single, I would say. I wouldn't even say that I was just single. I was. I would say that I was. I had blinders on, frankly, that I was completely and utterly focused on my career, like, with a laser. And so everything else was white noise, if you will.
• 18:00
  Speaker B: Sure. I mean, I. I can relate to that. Put 100% of my energy into my career for many years. And, you know, during that period, I did have kids, and I felt like at one point, I'm giving everything to my profession and there's just nothing left for myself or for my children. I just felt like I was sacrificing so much. But for me, it was very conscious. For you, was that like a conscious decision where you thought, okay, this is the period where it's my working years, and then later I'm going to take care of myself. Or was it more of. You were just kind of on autopilot?
• 18:39
  Speaker A: I think I was on autopilot and I was. I don't know, maybe it was a bit of a drug that I was, like, getting promoted. I mean, frankly, it had to be something like that where I was just like, oh, my God, I'm getting promoted. And, you know, I'm being seen and I'm growing and like, just. I was just flying from that standpoint. And I worked, like, ridiculous hours. I worked every Sunday. As I told you, I found this journal from 2009 where I wrote that I was going to leave work at 6:30, two nights, at least two nights a week. And I was only going to work one Sunday, you know, a month so that I could.
• 19:16
  Speaker B: I'm only going to work 80 hours this week. Right. That's my cut off period.
• 19:21
  Speaker A: And I would accept more invitations to go out, you know, to events with my friends. Like I was, I feel unconsciously or not consciously choosing to do those things, but I clearly was choosing. I was choosing. Right? Yeah, I, I just, I wonder if I, I really don't know why I was so obsessive about it, but I felt that the opportunity was one that I couldn't pass up and that I just was so hungry to, to be the best and I couldn't see another way of doing it.
• 20:04
  Speaker B: I definitely feel that sense of like, it was kind of like a drug for me. It was a lot of external validation and it was just like constant hits of dopamine. And then I would come home and I would get none of that because like kids don't do that. Right. Like kids aren't telling me, like, dad, thank you so much for making me dinner. Like, you did a great job listening to me today. No, so it pushed me back into the career and it was just this like external validation factory which is kind of a double edged sword because it helped me develop the career that, you know, I aspired to have. But I certainly like you feel like I sacrificed a lot during that period of time.
• 20:44
  Speaker A: Yeah, I think the external validation is a really good point. You know, being a single kid, you know, my mother was busy so she didn't really have. And she generationally, they didn't really heap a lot of praise, you know, so I think she wasn't patting me on the back. It was sort of these things that I was expected to do because I was her child number one. Because she had provided me with all of the means and the access and the opportunity to do things and so I should just do them. And I think that your point about just wanting to have praise and wanting to be acknowledged for what you're doing and it does become a bit of a, a bit of a drug.
• 21:28
  Speaker B: It's kind of like a double edged sword, right? It is. There's pros and there's cons. It's like everything in life, there's duality to it, 100%. Hi, Kevin here. If you're enjoying this conversation and you know someone else who's working to grow in their career while staying present at home, I'd really love it if you could share this episode with them. It's one of the best ways to. You can help us and help more leaders build their careers in a way that they're proud of without missing the moments that matter most. If. If you could go back and speak to kind of that younger version of yourself who was just getting started at Estee Lauder, what. What would you tell her? What advice would you prevent her from? Maybe some of the Mrs. That you had in your career, or would you just let her have it because all of those misses led to growth? As you reflect back, what would you share with that younger version of yourself?
• 22:19
  Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I think one. The one biggest piece, and you and I kind of talked about this, was when I had to take time off for surgery. I think the one piece of advice which I give to women, every one, Every woman that I mentor that is on a fast track in her career, I tell her, make sure you save your eggs. You freeze your eggs. And, you know, that could be controversial, but from. From my standpoint, it's optionality because if you don't necessarily have a partner at the time or you're really focused on your career, it gives you that option later on in life. And I still give that advice today, and I will give it to my daughter as well. So that's number one. Number two is, I think, trying. Trying very, very hard to have more clarity around what you value, what matters to you. I think that might be tough, you know, as a young person, because, yes, you kind of want to do all the things right. You want to get out and have a great job. You, you know, you want to date and experiment and have fun. But when the rubber starts to meet the road and when things are moving fast, you sort of have to have to step back and recalibrate. And I think that's really important, whether it be annually. And it's funny enough, Kevin, I used to do this and sort of still do at the end of every year, I write this list of, like, things that I loved and things that I didn't love so much, but I do it more related to career than I do it to my personal life. And I think that type of reflection on an annual basis could be really insightful for a young person because you're, like, really recording, like, okay, what worked here and what didn't, and what am I missing from what I really care about that I should be prioritizing. And so those would be two pieces of advice. Um, I think the other really big piece of advice is when opportunity knocks Whatever that opportunity is. I do believe in trying, you know, and experimenting and stepping in. But you don't have to feel beholden to that experience and that opportunity. And you don't need to stay there if you figure out that it's not right for you. I think that's critically important because oftentimes we feel like locked in because we took a path. And you don't need to be locked in. Your life is your own, you are in control of it. And so do what you think is right. And that will, I think, help to eliminate any regrets you might have.
• 25:05
  Speaker B: Yeah, that's great advice. I appreciate the tactical advice of just, you know, freezing your eggs. I imagine that was something that like, did you, did you growing up or later in life, like, did you always think that you were going to have children biologically? Because today you have two amazing children who are in college through marriage. Right. What, what has been your experience in motherhood? Being a. I like the term bonus mom versus step mom. But what is putting your experience of motherhood like.
• 25:40
  Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, so just to answer your question about childhood, I said I was going to have four kids, or maybe it was three. Three or four kids I said I was going to have because I was an only child and my friends were like my family. So I always wanted to have lots of, lots of folks around. But you're right, I have the great fortune of having two amazing bonus children. I married wonderful man who was raising twins. So they're 21 year old college students. Our daughter's in D.C. and our son is in Atlanta. So they are doing great. But I will tell you that it is a wonderful and probably one of the most fulfilling experiences of my life. And I say that because it. They're like your reverse mentors. They're constantly telling you like what you're doing. You kind of get like nice accolades here and there. You'll get like a thank you. Those things are great. But you also get a reminder of when you're like not your, your outfit isn't so cute or you're not dancing so well, or you're doing things that are corny. It just keeps you incredibly grounded. And I find that moment or that sort of essence of who they are to be so wonderful, so honest and so true and it's just really, really sweet.
• 27:03
  Speaker B: So our kids, our children, at least I'll speak for myself. My children are definitely my greatest mirror. They reflect back to me so much, whether it's explicitly like telling me, dad, you're on your phone and that's something that I try so hard to not be on my phone. I try not to be distracted. I try to be present in the moments I have with my children. But if I'm not and I get distracted, like, they'll call me out on it. But I also see it in their behaviors. Right, because they're learning. Like, yes, society has an influence. Their friends have an influence, but my kids are still young. I'm the primary influence on them. And so if they start picking up behaviors, I only have one place to look. Like they're getting it from me. And it makes me think about, like, shoot, am I raising my voice? Because they're running around yelling to get each other's attention. That was something I had to reflect on a couple years ago was like, the house just started becoming loud. And I was like, well, where is this starting? Oh, yeah, starting with me. And so, you know, just observing their behaviors gives me a lot of feedback into how I'm carrying myself as a father.
• 28:15
  Speaker A: 100%. My. My husband probably has a lot of those sentiments as well, because they've been so close to him. You know, I have this unique experience of coming into their lives at 8 years old. So I would say they are. I'm starting to see aspects of that where, you know, maybe something I would wear or something I would say they would reflect to me. One thing that is happening is my daughter is, is going to do an internship in beauty this summer, which is a little bit of a tug at my heartstrings, if you will. And my husband's in the biopharma space and our son is a pre med major. So to your point about a bit of a mirror, that is, that is something that we're experiencing. We try not to make too big a deal of it because we don't want them to roll their eyes and say, oh, I'm going to do something else now.
• 29:17
  Speaker B: Yeah, right. Then they're like, oh, no, I don't want to be like my parents. I got to go do something else. What was, what was your dynamic like with your kids? Was it, was it an easy transition to step into that role? Did it take time? What was your experience moving into being a bonus mother?
• 29:36
  Speaker A: Let's say it was. It took time and it was very. It was challenging because there were three of them who had a routine. I actually moved into the house that they, you know, were born and, and grew up in to drive that consistency and continuity. My husband is really, really. It was such a smart choice for him to think about. And prioritize them in that way to make sure that they just had stability. And so me moving into the house and, you know, becoming a part of their routine every day, it was, I wouldn't say it was easy, frankly. And, and they, and they know and they hear me talk about those moments, but they are a very open children. And so I remember the day that we told them that I was moving in and um, they said the first question they asked me was like, what do you want us to call you? Because I think they were like, wait, we don't want to call you Mom. Because that would not be right. So of course I'm like, just call me Shareese. And I do believe that sort of, that approachability and my personality is what created the connection. It took time. It took time because for them, they're eight years old when I started dating their dad and when we got married we, they were 12 and I moved in when they were 11. So it took, it took time for them to sort of build trust and build connection and get to know me and for me to get to know them. And I think that my personality, I'm very calm, very sort of easy, mellow person. I remember we, we taught them how to drive. So I, I would teach them sometime if I were going to the store, they could jump in the car and drive me or you know, other times they, they drive with their father. But of course I was the preferred person because I'm very calm and I'm not going to scream and yell. So I mean, all of these different experiences have built our connection and our relationship. And I think they know that I love them deeply and that they've been a real, real, just a highlight in my life.
• 31:43
  Speaker B: That's very special. You learned a lot from your own mother. Independence and the value of education. And I'm certain you got a lot of your ambition from her. What values did you want to help instill in your children as they were growing up?
• 32:04
  Speaker A: Yeah, I think there are a few. I mean, for me, resourcefulness is a really big one. And so really be thinking about how you want to solve a problem and really thinking it through and, and not just sort of complaining or, or whining or crying about it. I actually remember our daughter wanted to have a phone and so she had been campaigning is what I'm going to call it.
• 32:31
  Speaker B: I'm already getting that from my 9 year old, by the way, so painting
• 32:34
  Speaker A: for a phone for more than a year. And so I think we got it at 12 or 13. But she, I mean, she did everything she even wrote out. Ultimately it was like a PowerPoint slide on the pros and cons of and it was drawn out. Like it wasn't like, you know, done in the computer. Like it was drawn out with visuals on.
• 32:55
  Speaker B: She got poster boards.
• 32:58
  Speaker A: She, she really went above and beyond. But I do think that ultimately that was like this, that was that she, we were sold. You know, her arguments were really powerful and strong. So being resourceful was one I would say work, working hard and having a work ethic. And so every summer in high school they, they became lifeguards. They started working so really just kind of making sure that they knew that they had access to things that maybe others didn't. But they also needed to work at it and work consistently and work hard. And so that that is really important. They always had to do chores. So they knew, you know, they, they had to keep their room clean, they had to fold their laundry, sort their laundry. Like they always, they, you know, they had dish weeks, you know, everything. So they've always had those. And I believe that chores are really important for children just to set that foundation. So I think it's carried through in terms of their responsibility. And then I think the other thing is I probably was a little bit serious so trying to be a little bit more light hearted in life and not take things too seriously. Like there's always redemption if you will, there's always a new path. Mistakes happen. Failures are teachers. And really leaning into that, that spirit of experimentation I talked about, that is, that is a through line in my career. But it's also in like how you learn with data and analytics and how you understand what works in marketing is because you test and learn and you fail. You fail fast, you fail cheap and you move on to the next. Having that and as a learning for them I think is really important. And then the other one and the last one is just continue to think about others who may not have what you have and access to what you have access to and think about how you can help others, help and support others.
• 34:56
  Speaker B: That's amazing. Yeah, I think we spend a lot of time thinking about like values in business, corporate values. Like that was something that was really important to me running my company. But it wasn't until recently that I consciously started thinking about personal values and just in life and how I kids to think about these things and inherit them. And you mentioned resourcefulness. And I think between resourcefulness and resilience everything in the world is changing so fast. But those are the two things that are going to allow you to keep up with the pace of change. Those are just the, the innate skills in us that are so important to develop.
• 35:35
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. You spoke about resilience. Boy, that is, that is probably number one in this environment. Adaptability and resilience. Like how do you survive the last, whatever years?
• 35:46
  Speaker B: It's been, man, the last couple of years have been pretty wild in the corporate environment. Yeah. So you're, you're on a little bit of a break right now, but let's go back because I think when you may met your husband, you were on a leave of absence. Is that right? Did I have the timing right?
• 36:03
  Speaker A: Yeah, you have it right. I. In 2015, I decided to take a break from Estee Lauder. Quite a moment in my, I would say it is one of the most pivotal moments in my, in my life. 1 of 2. And it came on the heels of this surgery that I had in 2014 where I had to take six weeks off. And during those six weeks, I really was very, very reflective on, you know, kind of all the things that I had that we talked about as it relates to just how I was sort of one dimensional in my life and I wasn't really building out the rest of my Life. So in 2015, in July, right before Memorial Day weekend, I went in and told my boss that I was going to resign. And she was kind enough to say to me, I understand why, why you're doing this. I explained to her that I felt like I was just on this hamster wheel and that I needed to kind of have more balance in my life. And she said, well, why don't you take, take a leave of absence and then, you know, you'll get some time to decompress and then you can come back. Of course I took the leave of absence, but I knew in my heart of hearts that this was a, you know, this door was closing versus being a two way door, if you will. And so, you know, people, family and friends alike told me that this was of course, career suicide, that you just don't leave a good job before you have another. But as I said, I knew in my soul that this was something I needed to do and staying out of fear was going to be a much bigger risk. So I did what many would say is unthinkable. I took six months off. I worked out every day. I meditated with Deepak Chopra and Oprah. I painted. I took a painting class on the Upper east side of New York. I traveled with my friends, I mentored, I volunteered at my church. And I had meetings with my network and I really just enjoyed my time off. And that sort of led me ultimately to Pandora. But that was a real moment of freedom and just really being able to like decompress and flush my brain out and just almost like drain it and then sort of rebuild my Persona, my values, my. Remind myself of my values and sort of get back to a more sort of familiar self, if you will.
• 38:37
  Speaker B: It's. It's been a consistent thing. So over the course of some of the episodes, many of my guests have shared a kind of reset period and how they were able to kind of reorient their lives in a way that felt more sustainable and fulfilling. And I just wish there was more professional acceptance in our culture of those kind of break periods, because it's not like we're just going to go like, watch Netflix. It's really an amazing period to create space for kind of refining ourselves and finding the things that bring us joy and passion. And after you do that, you bring a new version of yourself into the next position that you take. So if you think about that kind of break period of who you were before and then who you were going into this new. And I think it was your first true C level role at Pandora. How did you become a different person after that period?
• 39:39
  Speaker A: I would say that I was incredibly confident. Like I was confident at Este, but I don't think that I was nearly as confident and had as much strength of conviction and belief in what I knew and what I could contribute and what impact I could make. It was almost as if I was on like an autopilot there and I didn't really know myself and what I was gaining in terms of skills and experience and leadership. And so I was able to put all of that to work. But on the other side of it, from a personal standpoint, I was able to kind of create more space in my life. And I don't want to say balance, because balance is a misnomer, but I. I would say that I just was clearer on what mattered and where I would make those. Those trade offs in my life. So, for instance, if, you know, one of the kids had a lacrosse game, you know, that I wanted to attend, then I was going to make sure that I was able to attend that lacrosse game versus in the past. I would have just been like, oh, you know, I can't really be there. I have this thing. But you know what? This thing is probably able to be moved. You know what I mean? Like, you just, you know, what you think is possible and what you can shape. I, I didn't have as much confidence in that until after I, I worked at Pandora. So I think that I really was just had more belief in myself and I just was creating the space to make sure that I protected what was important to me.
• 41:16
  Speaker B: Yeah, the confidence to say no to things so that you could keep space open to say yes to the right things, the more meaningful things.
• 41:24
  Speaker A: That's right, yeah.
• 41:26
  Speaker B: And during that time you met your husband. So that was a pretty important period of your life.
• 41:31
  Speaker A: Exactly. Pretty important. That one worked out.
• 41:35
  Speaker B: Tell us about Pandora. Because when you came in there it was a somewhat antiquated organization, maybe like no E Commerce, not much digital capabilities, lots of opportunity that it seems like you kind of saw that. And is that what drew you to this new opportunity?
• 41:53
  Speaker A: Yeah, there were, there were a few things, you know, I felt that being at Pandora based upon what I saw in my interviews and some of the people I met was going to bring this brand building experience that I had and fuse it with this data driven sort of marketing future that is be that was being shaped and being created in the function. So when I joined Pandora they had been very, very promotional. It was a business that was very tentful focused. So it was focused on Valentine's Day, Mother's Day and holiday. So the business throughout that would have just really deep dips. It was only a gifting business. So there weren't really any sort of self purchasers and you know, women buying for themselves. And to your point, there was no E Commerce, there was very limited owned and operated stores, um, and there was really no business outside of North America. A little business in Brazil. And so all of that was an exciting challenge for me because the Americas region, despite the fact that it was only the US and Canada was you know, the biggest region and the most mature essentially. So the opportunity was just across like every single aspect of the business. So making the brand more relevant to a new population. Charms and bracelets, it's 10% of the jewelry market and there's 90% to be had. So how do you, you know, shift or evolve and, and make the brand more relevant to a broader population that maybe wasn't necessarily focused on charms and bracelets first? You know, how do you make it a self purchase brand? How do you smooth out those tent poles so that you're the consumer is buying, you know, on an always on basis? And then how do you use this incredible wealth of data to just get smarter about how you talk to the consumer, what channels you use to talk to them, what type of collaborations and partnerships that you're doing that are resonant to that, that audience. And all of that was one of the most impactful transformations that I've had the opportunity to work on in my career. So very, very fruitful and just a real pivotal moment from a career standpoint.
• 44:10
  Speaker B: Sure. And. And the results for the organization were tremendous. Right. Pandora's like number one jewelry brand in the world. That's right.
• 44:19
  Speaker A: That's right. That's right. We put the, we put the business on that trajectory and it has, you know, really sort of stepped in to this, you know, global jewelry business, like full jewelry universe versus just a charms and bracelets player.
• 44:36
  Speaker B: Doesn't it feel so rewarding to like, know you played such a big role in that? When you kind of step back and look at it, it is.
• 44:43
  Speaker A: And I still look and I still pay attention to what is being done at Estee Lauder. I still pay attention to what's happening at Pandora. These are like, you know, babies of mine to some extent that I have a lot of pride around. So incredibly prideful.
• 44:58
  Speaker B: Amazing. And yeah. So at Pandora, you were able to really, you know, connect marketing and data and analytics and all of this kind of digital transformation that was happening. And I imagine those skills kind of carried into your next role, which was even bigger as the, you know, CMO and growth officer of Kellogg.
• 45:20
  Speaker A: That's right.
• 45:22
  Speaker B: What did kind of stepping into that broader growth role teach you about kind of what it takes to be a modern marketer and leader today?
• 45:30
  Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, what I would say is that leadership is everything. I am always excited about. A new opportunity, a new role, a new moment to make business impact. But what we are dealing with when these moments of inflection and disruption and challenge are happening, what we really need is leaders. So people who are poised and calm under pressure, who can be adaptable and know when it's time to pivot and, you know, go from that sort of single door decision to that double door decision, as some might talk about. Folks who have clear values and can communicate those in a way that is inspiring to the people who they lead. Being able to tap into the latest resources and knowledge, to sharpen your pencils and sharpen your skills so that you're getting better and better. Like, those are the types of skills that are needed. And it's all about leadership. And what's interesting to me, every turn I think about this. When we go to school, we're taught, like, functional skills. We aren't taught about what it takes to lead. And those are the skills that are enduring. Those are the ones that, you know, allow us the comfort and the confidence to sit in tape, you know, at tables that we never thought we would sit at and to do so and to really, you know, contribute and. And make impact. And that's what I feel like I've. I've learned throughout this. That's kind of been the through line, but that's what. What's gotten me to where I am today.
• 47:08
  Speaker B: Yeah. So for maybe somebody who's younger in their career and they want to develop as a leader, what are some of the things that they can be doing to develop the skills that you just talked about?
• 47:18
  Speaker A: Yeah. You know, at Kellogg and ultimately at Kellanova, we had these things called employee research groups, resource groups. So, you know, these are like affinity groups that you could step into. Those types of organizations and communities and networks. Those are moments where you can demonstrate your leadership skills or even develop leadership skills. Right. So you were. Whether there was an African American one. There were. There were many. But based upon what you like, and you can start to demonstrate what it's like to influence people or to problem solve when you know that there are differences of opinion or to get people to rally behind a specific idea or perspective. Like, all of those things, I think should be nurtured, you know, as younger people in your careers, joining a trade organization and getting involved in a committee and being, you know, and attempting to lead in those, and maybe if you aren't successful at the first go, you know, you keep attempting. I think it's really important that we encourage our young, you know, folks entering the workforce to lean into that leadership, develop leadership skill development. What does it mean to encourage people, influence people and help them, you know, pick up your mantle and drive it forward.
• 48:46
  Speaker B: Yeah, that's great. I mean, there are so many resources out there and organizations and networks. Right. For. For women, like the chief network.
• 48:55
  Speaker A: That's right.
• 48:55
  Speaker B: There's a great organization called Virtuosi Leap that does leadership development.
• 49:01
  Speaker A: I'm a mentor. Virtuos Elite.
• 49:04
  Speaker B: Good. Awesome. Another great one.
• 49:05
  Speaker A: Thank you for mentioning it.
• 49:06
  Speaker B: There's a few other guests that we've had on that have been mentors as well. I think part of it is just taking the initiative. And, you know, if you do have a, you know, somebody you report to is like communicating. I want to develop my leadership skills. There's this program I want to do. And if you're in a group where there is no clear leader, there's the opportunity to kind of lead Horizontally. Right. You don't need people to report to you to be a leader. It's more like an authentic way of leading.
• 49:33
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
• 49:36
  Speaker B: When you. Now, because just chronologically, we're kind of talking about your time at Kellogg. It seemed like Kellogg was really a vehicle for you because at the beginning, you talked about community and giving back. So could you share how Kellogg as an organization gave you an opportunity to kind of give back to your community?
• 49:57
  Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, so the. One of the reasons why I joined I left Pandora after six years, which was great. I felt that I had done all that I could do in that role there, and it was time for me to move on to something new and different. And it was 2020, and it was a really difficult time, as we all know. And so I wanted to be in and around a community and an organization that was committed to underserved, underserved people and communities. And I found that in. Kellogg has a mission around giving people a seat at the table. And I really. That really resonated in terms of my values. And as we. We talked about how I grew up and welcoming a diverse community. So I. I just. I was thrilled to be there. And as we talked about, you know, Maslow's hierarchy of needs around food and food being so important to underserved communities, I thought this is an opportunity for me to kind of live my values every day and work at a company that is showing up for my community. But I learned so much. And I would say that my leadership skills, as we talked about influence and working key commercial leaders and really compelling them to make some of the transformational change that we needed to change to make. My leadership stepped up exponentially at Kellogg and at Kellanova, and I'm really grateful for that experience.
• 51:26
  Speaker B: I think your story has a lot of messages, but one of the messages is that, like, success on paper is not always the same as success in pain, in alignment with who you are and what's true for you. So for somebody who's listening and, you know their career is ascending, they look successful on paper, but maybe they feel a little disconnected from what's really important to them. Like, what should they be asking themselves first? And, like, what's one small step they can take to start realigning?
• 52:01
  Speaker A: I think you have to ask yourself, am I making the choices that are right for me at this time? And what am I not choosing? And do I feel okay with it? And if I'm okay with it, then we keep going. But I think you have to ask that quite frequently, once or Twice a year you have to ask yourself that question because, again, like, we are all responsible. We're each responsible for our own lives. And nobody's going to hand you the clarity or the balance or the presence. You. You just have to choose it and really getting clear on your. Your values. And. And you talked about stillness. And I do think that in this world of busy distraction, shifting your attention, you know, every, you know, three seconds, you gotta kind of pull back and say, I need to have a little peace, a little quiet, a little stillness, because that's when you really get clear on what matters. And, you know, choices, I think, become much more obvious. And the opportunities also, whether it be to say yes or to say no, and I think they become easier because you're leading from what is core to who you are.
• 53:29
  Speaker B: Well, Sharice, thank you so much for joining us today and just sharing so many, just like pearls of wisdom. I genuinely appreciate you being on the podcast. What I think is really going to stick with me is just a reminder that nobody's going to hand us the clarity that we're looking for, the balance in life or the presence that we're striving for. We really have to choose it in work, at home, in those moments where the sacrifices aren't all that obvious. I have no doubt our listeners are going to take away a lot from all that you've shared with us today. I'm really grateful to have had you here, and we'll be sure to link to the communities and mentoring programs that you referenced in the show in the notes below for our listeners.
• 54:13
  Speaker A: Thank you, Kevin.
• 54:14
  Speaker B: If you're enjoying this conversation, make sure to hit subscribe so you don't miss future episodes. CEOs and ABC is all about helping you grow in your career and show up at home. We've got many more amazing guests coming up, so tap, follow, and stay tuned.