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Road Rambles: Co-Captaining Roy Farms · No Dirt No Flowers Podcast

0:00
Hello everyone and welcome back to another episode
0:02
of No Dirt, No Flowers. Today's episode is a
0:05
literal on -the -road episode as Mike and Drew
0:08
drive to a sales trip and record. While they
0:12
avoid trying not to get in accidents, they discuss
0:14
what it's like to co -captain the ship that is
0:17
Roy Farms Hops. They go into what it's like to
0:20
share responsibilities and what it is to be an
0:24
energy vampire and... many, many other side tangents
0:28
that they go on as they drive down the road to
0:31
destiny. On a side note, I am mentioned as having
0:35
been an energy vampire at one point or another.
0:39
Personally, I cannot recall when this may have
0:42
happened, but I'm sure it did and it was probably
0:45
well -deserved. I will be sure to follow up with
0:48
Drew to get comments and feedback and will let
0:50
you know as soon as I do. Enjoy the episode.
1:07
once and then like clip it on geez there's nothing
1:12
safe about this what we're just setting up a
1:15
mobile podcast studio yeah we're live criminy
1:19
yeah you don't even know what we're talking about
1:22
yet i don't that's what i was going to ask about
1:24
is so we have this idea about trying to we've
1:27
had this idea for a while it's been your idea
1:29
of recording on our sales trips or on the way
1:33
somewhere just live from the road and what could
1:36
possibly be better than driving through central
1:39
oregon this is true on the just even decibels
1:42
where you have zero i don't know not zero decibels
1:45
zero negative negativity zero negativity perfect
1:51
all right yes we're driving down to bend oregon
1:55
right now you know i think our listeners really
1:58
may want to know What does co -captaining mean?
2:04
You had no idea what I was going to say. I know,
2:06
and it's not surprising, given where I thought
2:09
you were energetically five minutes ago. Okay.
2:13
So, background. We're sitting here trying to
2:17
discuss how each of us thinks about different
2:21
things, and then it turned into a full analysis
2:22
of each other's mental... Mental stability? No,
2:27
I wouldn't go. That was only you. Mine's fine.
2:32
Just thought it'd be fun to talk about this.
2:35
Well, you got to rewind and go all the way back
2:37
to the beginning about when we were talking about
2:39
titles and roles and responsibilities, when we
2:43
first started working together and then that
2:45
evolved into co -captain. So I think you have
2:47
to start there. Yeah. When we were talking about,
2:49
does it make sense for us to work together? Obviously
2:53
there was shared interest and some shared outcomes.
2:57
Caught each other's side eyes. Walking down the
3:00
hallway. That happened long before that conversation.
3:04
Well, logically, you start working for a company,
3:07
there's going to be some sort of talk about titles
3:11
and roles and responsibilities. You and I are
3:13
not really title guys, but that made the conversation
3:19
even harder, I think. In some regards, it's made
3:22
it easier, too. In some regards, it's made it
3:24
easier. So, yeah. Are you CEO? Am I CEO? Are
3:32
you president? I'm CEO. What does that even mean?
3:37
What does that even mean? Like, you know, and
3:39
then what types of decisions would we be making
3:42
that would potentially pressurize either of those
3:47
scenarios or all the things? Yeah. Well, it effectively
3:52
turned into, I don't really care as long as...
3:58
On certain topics, my voice is heard, and in
4:05
many regards, I have final say. And in certain
4:07
topics, your voice is heard, and you have final
4:09
say. There's a lot of drift over these two things,
4:13
you know, where we're friends, we're partners
4:20
in a business sense. And then we have this business
4:26
with different skill sets and things like that.
4:28
And one day I showed up in my office and got
4:31
a stack of business cards that you had ordered
4:35
that said co -captain on it. Well, because you
4:38
mentioned that at one point and I was like, I
4:39
think that's perfect. Like, cause we are co -captaining
4:42
this thing. Let me just unpack that a little
4:45
bit. Yeah. Do we start with the need for a voice
4:50
to be heard or individual skill sets? Cause those
4:53
are two unique buckets. One probably has more
4:57
to do with the individual, like, at an emotional,
5:04
spiritual, et cetera, level. And then the other
5:08
one has to do with, you know, like, the experiences
5:13
and the skill set that you've gained in life.
5:15
And there's obviously overlap in there, right?
5:18
Because you want your skill set to be applied
5:20
within strategy and decision -making. I'm kind
5:25
of a believer that if someone, and I do it equally
5:29
as much, wants their voice to be heard, it's
5:32
about something else. Oh, this is the direction
5:36
you want to go. No, try now. Okay, okay, I see
5:41
that. Yeah, I mean, there's probably truth to
5:43
that. There's probably truth for that in everybody.
5:45
Yeah. But I think at the end of the day, we just
5:47
kind of landed on here's where your skill sets
5:51
are. Strong. Here's where my skill sets are strong.
5:55
And here's where there's overlap. And we can
5:58
just work through those ones. What are my skill
6:02
sets? Well, first of all, you are one of the
6:07
best phantomers I've ever met in my entire life.
6:10
Although you haven't used that skill in a while.
6:13
I might be losing that skill. For those of you
6:16
that don't know what phantoming is, this is a
6:18
phrase that I learned from Mike Roy. No... less
6:21
than 10 years ago, I believe at a hop convention.
6:25
Oh, I'm sure it was at a hop convention. But
6:27
I've seen this happen many times where we have
6:32
a meeting or a plan to go grab a cocktail or
6:38
a beer and then I show up and there's no mic.
6:44
Where are you at? Well, then his phone's off.
6:47
About a week later, I'll find out that he got
6:49
on an airplane and decided to go back home. Or
6:53
go wherever it is. So you are excellent at phantoming.
6:57
You're a hell of a rock climber. I was thinking
7:00
more business skill set. I know. I know. Exceptionally
7:06
good at brew relationships. You've got to be
7:12
one of the best farmers in the whole valley.
7:17
unfathomable amount of information about farming.
7:22
Pretty good at water. Probably better than the
7:25
best I know. Which makes sense because it's your
7:28
love language. A good dreamer. Really good at
7:32
that. And a visionary. Communication is not maybe
7:39
as strong. Punctuality. But those are all. Those
7:45
are all soft things that aren't necessary. My
7:47
communication isn't all that great either. Yeah,
7:50
I think that's a fair assessment. I would say
7:53
that punctuality and communication are being
7:57
worked on rather heavily because they are needed,
7:59
especially in this environment that we're in.
8:01
So pause for a second. What I'm wondering right
8:04
now, what's going through my mind is how many
8:07
people listened to the first five minutes and
8:10
were like, I don't want to listen to these jackasses
8:12
driving through Central Oregon. But you know
8:15
what? For those of you that stayed with us, buckle
8:19
up. Buckle up. What do you think your best skill
8:23
sets are? When you think about your Mike -ness,
8:27
where you have the most value, where is that?
8:36
Oh, I mean, yeah, for sure farming, relationships.
8:42
And I think customer relationships probably more
8:45
appropriately. I've had some comments that have
8:49
surfaced recently. Not really recently. It's
8:52
not recent, it's a theme. Okay. I've been digesting
8:56
the comments recently. You could argue that they've
8:59
built up over the years and I'm currently digesting.
9:02
Yes, yes. That maybe I'm hard to work with sometimes.
9:07
I mean, relationships is a broad category. If
9:10
you look at... like relationships with merchants
9:13
or relationships with distributors or relationships
9:17
within the supply chain outside of breweries.
9:22
I think that has some validity. I also challenge
9:28
that a bit because there's always two sides and
9:31
like a marriage, there's always two participants
9:35
and two people that are responsible and the focus
9:37
seems to be more on. what I'm doing wrong as
9:41
opposed to what they're doing wrong, but that's
9:44
fine. I can only take responsibility for my piece,
9:47
so. Yeah. Yeah, it takes two to tango, I think
9:50
is what you're saying. Yep. And so, yeah, farming,
9:53
relationships, yeah, vision. I do think that
10:00
I'm good at looking at large amounts of... data
10:06
or a large landscape and distilling it down to
10:10
a direction, a vision. I don't know that I go
10:17
back and forth whether that's a skill or not,
10:22
because, you know, you have to be able to execute
10:25
on that to actually, I think, be successful.
10:28
You can't just have the vision. Sure. So when
10:33
you're looking at large landscapes, taking it
10:37
all in when you look out the window right now
10:40
tell me what you see uh i mean the first thing
10:47
that comes to mind i have no idea whether this
10:49
hits the mark in terms of what you're asking
10:53
but what i see is a lifestyle that i fear is
10:58
becoming less and less viable which is you know,
11:06
large, open, farmable acreage. These homes that
11:13
you can tell that have been on those properties
11:16
for a long time, potentially multi -generational.
11:19
And it's a lifestyle that I've always gravitated
11:23
towards and I'm very grateful that I grew up
11:26
in. But I don't know if that's... a real viable
11:35
way to to live these days if you want to have
11:40
some sort of security and raise a family unfortunately
11:42
that that's my first thought the loss of the
11:46
independent farmer yeah and i i think that you
11:51
know we've talked about this from time to time
11:53
on the podcast and so i don't want to go too
11:55
deep down the rabbit hole of you know how that
12:00
relates to the hop industry but it obviously
12:03
relates But, yeah, that's my thought. And how
12:08
I kind of long for a simplified life. As you
12:13
know, my energy management system tells me certain
12:17
things. And when you drive into Madras, Oregon,
12:21
it tells you... It tells me I wouldn't want to
12:24
live in Madras. Although Smith Rock is right
12:29
over there. I could probably do it for Smith.
12:31
Oh, yeah. That's another one of your great skill
12:33
sets is the energy management system, which I
12:36
am sure we all have. But you have named it. You've
12:41
identified it. I, to be perfectly honest, I don't
12:45
understand the rules and the algorithms that
12:47
it follows just yet. But like yesterday, say,
12:51
here's another thing about I don't know if this
12:53
is a co -captaining thing. Yeah. But it pertains
12:56
to your energy management system. True or false?
12:59
Yesterday morning, before you walked in the office,
13:01
before you were in the building and I hadn't
13:03
talked to you at all that day. And I told you
13:07
I would have bet a thousand dollars. That was
13:10
the exact look on your face when you walked in
13:11
and I hadn't even talked to you. Yeah. I'm wondering
13:15
if that's not your energy management system sending
13:18
out beacons. Like it's a warning thing that you
13:24
can blast out across some area of. I just knew.
13:32
So true or false, was I sending out a warning
13:35
signal to stay away from me? Oh yeah, I screwed
13:37
that up. Yeah, true or false, I said, and I hadn't
13:40
even seen you, I would have bet a thousand bucks
13:42
that you were going to have that look on your
13:45
face. And also, when you... Is the jacket zipped
13:53
all the way up part of the energy management
13:55
system? Is that like kind of keeping heat in?
13:57
Or what's the story with that? Because when it's
14:02
really bad, there's a hood on. Yep. If it's really
14:04
bad, there's a hood up. I don't know how this
14:08
turned into a me thing. We're talking about co
14:10
-captaining. That's fine. We'll turn it around.
14:12
Because your energy management system is like
14:15
the force. It's with all of us. We just need
14:18
to learn to harness it like you have. Well, you
14:22
mentioned phantoming. This is all a way of, I
14:26
guess, preserving energy because, man, life just
14:30
sucks it out left and right. And so, yeah, there's
14:35
a threshold. I think I have a high threshold,
14:38
but there's a threshold. And the other day I
14:40
came into the office and the threshold had already
14:43
been exceeded, I think, before I stepped foot
14:46
in the door. But sometimes, like at a hop convention,
14:48
that threshold gets hit an unexpected time, which
14:52
means that I may not show up for a meeting with
15:00
you. Yeah. Depending on the subject matter, right?
15:04
I mean, in fairness, you haven't phantomed me
15:07
in quite some time. Not a long time. A couple
15:10
years? No, I don't think it has anything to do
15:13
with heat. I think it has to do with... Like
15:18
I'm going into my cave for a while. And that
15:21
cave in an ideal state is maybe it's an actual
15:26
rock cave, like out rock climbing somewhere.
15:28
Or maybe it's hanging out in my house. I don't
15:36
know. But sometimes that cave is, if I have to
15:39
be out in public, sometimes the cave is the hood
15:42
or like the zipped up jacket. Like I'm like going
15:45
inward. Okay. Yep. There you go. That's great.
15:48
That's my best explanation. So anyhow, so that's
15:54
part of co -captaining too because we have to
15:56
understand we have to be a live working unit.
16:00
Uh -huh. And when you're phantoming or in your
16:03
cave or your metaphorical cave, which also might
16:06
look like a jacket or a real cave. Yeah. What
16:10
do you think my energy management system looks
16:13
like? See, I'm trying to figure out this energy
16:17
management system, which is why I've named it.
16:20
I'm trying to breathe life into it so that it's
16:23
more of a daily energy management system. My
16:27
take on your energy management system is that
16:29
it hasn't been named yet. It operates at unpredictable
16:36
rates in the background. It's like RAM? Like
16:41
when you look at your laptop, like it's overloaded,
16:44
but you never really know. Yeah. And you're like,
16:47
why is my computer being so slow right now? Yeah.
16:51
Yeah. But it's just still right there. Yeah.
16:55
That's, I think, what your energy management
16:56
system is to date currently in its evolutionary
17:00
process. I mean, I'll tell you what, I made a
17:02
really great decision for mine. Which is. Which
17:08
was born out of my. Which was born out of yours.
17:11
When you came in and said, I am approaching burnout
17:14
right now. I was like, damn it. Actually. I am
17:19
too. The hop industry sucks right now. I'm going
17:24
to go away for a week. So I called my wife and
17:26
said, you can pick any of the next four weeks.
17:30
I'm taking you to a beach somewhere. And if you
17:32
don't say yes, I'm going by myself. And she said.
17:36
I'll go with you. Take me to the beach or lose
17:39
me forever. Show me the way home, honey. So that's
17:46
blowing off some energy. That is. Yeah. To be
17:50
more specific, I think you, because you're a
17:53
optimist, which is great. Great. Sometimes like
17:59
the things that would require small amounts of
18:02
energy management get. pushed aside or suppressed
18:08
and then they build up into a bigger blow off.
18:12
Yeah, you know, it's kind of analogous to my
18:15
garage. It'll be all clean. I get it all cleaned
18:21
up and then the boxes will show up from Amazon
18:26
or Costco or wherever and they'll start piling
18:29
up in the corner and then there will be a little
18:30
project that I'll forget to clean up. And then
18:35
all of a sudden, fast forward, the thing's a
18:38
mess and you can't walk through it. And there's
18:42
mice in there. And I will just throw a shit fit
18:47
about the mess in the garage because I didn't
18:50
notice it for the previous. And then I'll go
18:52
have to just clean the whole thing out and we'll
18:55
start back at square one. But it's analogous
18:57
because if I would just put the boxes in the
18:59
recycling bin in the first place, then it would
19:03
stay clean and tidy. But I do pack things away.
19:07
Mentally. And I just shut down. I don't really
19:11
shut down. I internalize. It's kind of a shutting
19:15
down. It's not like a shutting down. You're not
19:18
going to open back up. I'm like a clam. Well,
19:26
we call my wife a turtle. Because she likes to
19:29
just suck her head right into her shell and just
19:30
hang out in there and pretend the world doesn't
19:32
exist. So I have to ask her to let me in her
19:36
turtle shell with her. Sometimes she does. I
19:41
mean, I think all this is relevant. I mean, you
19:43
know, it's humorous. But I do think it's all
19:46
relevant because whether you're a hop farmer,
19:50
a brewer, or anybody else in the supply chain,
19:53
or anybody in agriculture for that matter, I
19:57
definitely feel like we are in a time. where
20:06
it's just going to keep coming at you. And if
20:10
you don't have a way to, first of all, if you
20:14
don't accept that, if you don't have a way to
20:16
deal with it, it's just not sustainable. It being
20:21
life, work life. How do you think, this is tangential,
20:28
but actually it's not. It's kind of right on
20:32
the mind, but how do you think for the majority
20:36
of your time in a, like a real leadership role
20:41
at Roy Farms? Cause you came back when? 2005
20:44
ish. Yeah. So for like, you had your first two
20:49
years were probably just not fun. I don't know.
20:53
From a market standpoint. Well, I was kind of
20:55
a little bit, it's funny cause I remember going
20:58
on. sales trips. My dad was really good about
21:02
taking me and exposing me to these larger deals
21:05
that were happening at the time. And those larger
21:07
deals were positive and negative. And so I saw
21:10
both sides of it, but I didn't really have a
21:13
whole lot of context or kind of like how it was
21:17
impacting the balance sheet or the longevity
21:21
of the ranch. And so they were interesting to
21:25
me. And I definitely, you know, identified. when
21:29
it was negative and when it was positive, which
21:32
wasn't hard to figure out. But most of my life
21:36
was spent out in the field. So my first job when
21:39
I came back was IPM, like management, so integrated
21:44
pest management. And basically just doing what
21:47
I had done for basically four or five years prior
21:50
with a consulting company, but internally. evaluating
21:57
pest pressures and writing internal recommendations
21:59
and managing that aspect of the farm. And it
22:06
was, I mean, quite honestly, it was pretty easy
22:08
because I had so much experience with it. But
22:12
I mean, I remember when I came back, we were
22:15
in the middle of a tough time. Like we had, you
22:20
know, hop waste piled up for multiple years because
22:23
we didn't want to spread it out in the fields
22:25
because that was added cost and it wasn't, you
22:28
know, a core need of the ranch to grow that crop
22:31
at the time. And so, I don't know, continue.
22:36
But, you know, starting in 08, the hop industry
22:41
was a pretty good ride for, you know. 12 or 13
22:48
no 15 years something like that generally yes
22:53
it was not a good ride for everybody but that's
22:58
a different topic yeah but i mean generally speaking
23:03
there wasn't like massive pressure on balance
23:08
sheets and things like that correct well what
23:11
i was thinking is that you know now we're in
23:14
this situation where it's like working your butt
23:19
off to find opportunities and relationships so
23:22
it can turn to something normal. It's kind of
23:25
feeding off the point about how this is kind
23:27
of just going to be the way it is. But that also
23:31
made me think, I wonder, brewers also have kind
23:38
of a very similar trajectory where most... craft
23:44
brewers in America are 15 years old or younger,
23:46
right? The overwhelming majority of them. And
23:50
it was pretty sunshine and roses for up until
23:55
about, you know, COVID I know probably started
23:58
hitting a lot of breweries pretty hard. And it's
24:01
probably been a rough patch since then, but you
24:06
know, maybe not all of them. But now a lot of
24:10
challenges, fighting for market share, less people
24:13
drinking. And so while we're looking at this,
24:17
trying to figure out how to find some sense of
24:19
normalcy and stability going forward, I wonder
24:23
how much they see it the same way and can relate.
24:31
Because we're all having a whole lot of fun and
24:34
just doing our jobs and making people happy.
24:39
a long time and now it's a struggle yeah i do
24:44
wonder if they see it the same way i think it's
24:48
probably harder in some ways to maybe come to
24:54
that conclusion or kind of sink into that new
25:00
normal while this one i think is worse in a lot
25:05
of ways this is the third or Third cycle I've
25:09
been exposed to, you know, second for sure, but
25:14
to some degree the third. And so for me, it's
25:18
just kind of a little bit easier, I think, to
25:20
like hunger down and it's still hard. So I don't
25:23
know. It'd be curious to talk to a brewer about
25:28
that. Yeah. So you got to build in the energy
25:31
management systems and know that this is kind
25:33
of the way it is. But I'll tell you what, back
25:35
to my optimism. Yeah, it's just my nature to
25:39
always think there's something over the next
25:40
over the next hill and we're just gonna keep
25:44
fighting through to get there. It's like Christmas
25:50
morning every day. So this gets into the co -captain
25:54
and the dynamic that we like live on a daily
25:56
basis, right? Because you're an optimist. I am
26:01
also an optimist, but I can flip -flop pretty
26:03
fast into negative slash conspiracy theory land.
26:13
Yeah. And that is a dynamic that we're still
26:18
trying to figure out. What is the right dosage
26:21
of optimism? What is the right dosage of strategy?
26:24
And what is the right dosage of questioning slash
26:28
conspiracy theory? This is probably one of the
26:31
worst dynamics that exists. Or maybe best. Between
26:35
you and I? Yeah, it's your conspiracy theories
26:39
that come out. And, you know, sometimes I'll
26:44
say there could be something to that or that's
26:48
pretty far fetched or whatever. But then on the
26:51
ones that it turns out that you're right on,
26:53
it feeds this cycle of conspiracy theories. And
26:58
it's like it would be a lot easier to be. if
27:03
you were just wrong on all of them it'd be a
27:05
lot easier to just be like will you just shut
27:07
up and you've been wrong every single time but
27:11
that's not the case yeah i mean there's at the
27:17
very least there's been smoke not just uh hey
27:22
i think there's something going on here like
27:24
yeah there was something going on there and uh
27:31
feeds the beast but then that's also a valuable
27:33
thing because if you can see something coming
27:35
that I can't yeah I don't know helps us both
27:38
yeah we're trying to figure out what the right
27:41
proportions are yes you're much more of a I put
27:45
a lot of faith in people and relationships maybe
27:49
at times too much and like no that would never
27:57
happen Au contraire. I think that's where I'm
28:04
more likely to not be able to see the conspiracy
28:09
and the theory. The theory and the conspiracy.
28:14
Do you remember that time we were down here like
28:17
six months ago and I couldn't find a truck charger
28:20
and I got so pissed off when you were getting
28:24
your tattoo? Yeah. And... Then I finally found
28:29
a really slow one and I was so angry. I just
28:32
went to the bar and knocked back two beers and
28:35
made you drive home. Yep. Oh, the stories these
28:42
lips could tell. Oh, we're driving past Smith
28:46
rock right now. And I'll bet you the conditions
28:48
are prime. What is it? 37 degrees out. It's a
28:51
little warm. Yeah. So we got to work through
28:54
those things. Yeah. And then. So we're working
28:58
through those dynamics, right? Optimism, strategy,
29:01
conspiracy theory, how those tie in or don't
29:06
tie into our business plan and how they impact
29:09
our co -captaining relationship on a daily basis.
29:14
It's been a journey. Yeah, I would say where,
29:18
you know, on the operation of the company side,
29:22
that seems to be pretty clearly outlined. Yeah.
29:26
We, that kind of falls under me and I've worked
29:31
with Scott. He's kind of taken over. Which we're
29:34
going to have Scott on the podcast later. Oh,
29:36
yeah. That guy would be great. Get Scott on there.
29:41
He's like the, you guys listen to us talking
29:43
and like, what are these guys talking about?
29:45
And they're all over the place and stuff. Scott,
29:48
he's a, he'll be a very clear and direct and
29:53
amazing. I envy that guy. I mean, I thank God
29:58
for the gifts I have, but he's one talented individual.
30:03
Hey, you need all different sorts. It takes all
30:05
kinds of kinds. Yeah, one thing I worry about
30:08
is... One thing that we've done well over our
30:15
years is... manage relationships and I think
30:19
a lot of that has to do with working with our
30:21
partners through hard times or contract restructuring
30:25
or you know I mean obviously there's limits sometimes
30:29
but more often than not we really desire and
30:34
and do sit down to try and come up with a win
30:38
-win with our partners because we view these
30:41
as long -term relationships one thing that worries
30:44
me and I is the current state of the industry
30:50
is somewhat well it is unforgiving and by that
30:58
i mean that there isn't a lot of room for error
31:01
and you kind of got to put on your your business
31:07
hat more than your relationship hat it feels
31:10
like or at least that's the the pressure yeah
31:14
and I don't want to lose that, that focus on,
31:21
you know, trying to find a win -win and really
31:26
spending the time to sit down with your partners,
31:28
regardless of whether that's a hard time or you're
31:30
just talking about future opportunity. Cause
31:34
it has shifted back to, you know, more typical
31:40
like business mindset right now. I feel like.
31:47
Which is interesting. I don't know if interesting
31:49
is the right word. I am very much a relationship.
31:54
Would way rather build things on trust than anything
31:59
else. And sometimes that might be more challenging
32:04
in today's landscape. But I think people want
32:07
that. Oh, I know people want it. And I think
32:11
that can happen between us and our customers.
32:16
I don't think that, and this is not a negative
32:20
or a positive, I just don't think that it's as
32:23
easy to do within the supply chain because there's
32:32
a lot of trust that's been deteriorated, at least
32:34
with me, over a recent period of time. But back
32:44
to co -captaining. What else you got to say about
32:47
co -captaining? I think it works as long as you
32:55
trust the person you're working with and you
32:59
communicate with each other and try to learn
33:02
your, you know, you got to learn about. I mean,
33:07
there's two different ways to do it. You can
33:09
segment the company into two different areas.
33:12
Like, here's your responsibilities, here's ours.
33:15
or mine and yes that is important but there's
33:19
a bunch of overlap and the overlap you just kind
33:21
of have to go at it together and it's kind of
33:26
what we've done yeah like on the operational
33:29
side I try and stay out of a lot of it but still
33:39
know what's going on and act more as like an
33:43
internal consultant based off like experience
33:46
if I have anything to add and I feel like that's
33:51
working okay well our yields look pretty dang
33:56
good yeah but that's like the inverse of that
33:59
like what I'm I mean on the farming side like
34:02
I've taken more of an active role on the farming
34:04
side so like I'm more I'm more of an I guess
34:08
I was lumping all operations together but thinking
34:10
more about like processing. Oh yeah. Our finance
34:16
department and, you know, it and HR and yes,
34:22
like farming at a high level, um, as it relates
34:26
to the budget and, you know, and sales and everything,
34:30
but, uh, that I'm trying to broadly be connected
34:37
to, but not have like a daily say in. But there's
34:42
this weird carve out around farming, like getting
34:44
back to my what my my competencies are. Right.
34:49
So it's like technically on the org chart, I'm
34:52
like an internal consultant to farming. Right.
34:56
But that's more of a daily conversation. And
34:59
so I have more of a I guess an impact there.
35:03
But we have like we have carve outs. other things
35:08
that are streamlined and then overlap. Carbouts
35:11
are on the board. I know, I know. I don't like
35:13
using Carbouts, but it is... At times, you can
35:17
pull it off the board. We have a board. We've
35:22
probably talked about this. I don't know if we've
35:23
talked. I think we've talked about it. We have
35:25
a... Yeah, actually, let's talk about this. This
35:28
is a little side fear, but we have a board where
35:31
we have words that bug certain people on our
35:33
teams. And they go on that board, and you can't
35:38
use those. And carve -out's one of them. We make
35:45
a concerted effort to not use those in our lexicon.
35:48
Yes, but sometimes they do come out when appropriate.
35:51
Now, also on the board, we have our energy vampire
35:56
kind of penalization scale. And for those of
36:00
you that don't know what an energy vampire is,
36:04
You'll know when I'm done with this. So we have
36:07
different classifications. OK, so you'll start
36:10
here. First of all, it started out as just you're
36:13
on the board, off the board. You're either an
36:15
energy vampire or you weren't. And we really
36:17
had to manage this in the earlier days because
36:20
we needed to preserve our time and energy for
36:24
the most important things. Oh, absolutely. And
36:28
we had to make sure that that we had. A very
36:33
clear understanding of who was an energy vampire
36:35
and who wasn't and what category they're in.
36:38
And now one thing to keep in mind is these categories
36:41
that we're about to share, they are fluid and
36:46
somebody can move through the legal system one
36:49
direction or the other. So, you know, first of
36:52
all, you're going to get a traffic ticket. Well,
36:56
you got to give the whole gradient. You're just
36:59
getting pulled over. You might get a warning.
37:02
You might get a ticket. But you're venturing
37:05
into, you know, sucking a little bit more energy
37:09
than you need to. Okay. Then your next category
37:12
is the drunk tank. So you got pulled over. You're
37:17
going to be going away for a night. And, you
37:21
know, depending on how things go, you might.
37:25
get out you may not be prosecuted there might
37:27
be some community service who knows now you could
37:32
also be put into jail and this is for you know
37:37
misdemeanors felonies you know you're you need
37:43
to stay away for a while and you're not allowed
37:45
around but you you might get parole you might
37:47
get out and then we have prison which this is
37:52
we're talking like uh This type of energy vampire
37:55
is somebody that is not allowed anywhere near.
38:01
Repeat offender. Oh, yeah. We don't see a path
38:07
to them correcting this, and there's a strong
38:11
possibility that they will continue to be an
38:13
energy vampire as long as we have them around
38:16
us. Yeah, and if they put you in a bad headspace
38:19
and they do stupid stuff. You just can't have
38:22
that in your life. It's going to really screw
38:24
up your energy management system. And then we
38:27
have, you know, prison. So sometimes you can
38:29
be a life sentence in there. But, you know, there
38:33
might be visitation rights and things like that
38:35
every now and again, just checking in. And then
38:38
the final one is is death row. And that's where
38:41
you're not getting out your energy vampire for
38:44
for life. And you'd really have to. do some work
38:50
and there's been some people that have done that
38:51
before and have been you know in in our legal
38:55
system for quite some time you know something
38:58
something like uh where you might just get a
39:02
traffic stop is maybe you keep bringing up the
39:07
same thing over and over again and that you know
39:11
that uh it's been made clear that we're not talking
39:16
about this anymore so we have a little warning
39:19
maybe you're specifically talking about me right
39:20
now no i could be then we have the drunk tank
39:28
and that just basically means that um you know
39:32
maybe during that traffic stop we realized it
39:34
was a little bit more of a serious uh you know
39:37
a serious uh offense where you're not backing
39:41
down off what what's going on here this could
39:44
be internal it could be external um You get into
39:49
jail. Cool doggy. Usually you've done something
39:55
pretty damaging to the relationship or, you know,
40:01
what's a good example? I'm trying to think of
40:03
a couple of good examples without calling out
40:05
because there's examples, but we don't want to
40:07
necessarily call out certain people or organizations.
40:15
No, it's kind of like Fight Club. You don't talk
40:17
about it. You kind of just ghost. Well, you can
40:20
talk about me and my brother since we don't care.
40:23
I don't care. So I've been pulled over for what?
40:25
Do you remember why? Or I've been put on the
40:29
board. Oddly enough, I've never put you on the
40:31
board, even though I probably should have. But
40:33
you put me on the board. Let me think of the
40:36
last time I put you on the board. This is part
40:41
of co -captaining. Pulling each other accountable
40:46
so that we can be focused. Oh, I put you on there
40:51
that time that we got in that... I put you in
40:53
the drunk tank for that one. I got in the drunk
40:55
tank? When I was flying back and you were...
40:59
You might have been drunk texting, I'm not sure.
41:03
But you were all fired up and then started making
41:05
accusations that weren't true. Reading between
41:09
the lines as you analyzed me. And in that one,
41:12
that didn't go over too well. I hit a true emotional
41:18
nerve without realizing it. That was part of
41:22
understanding where our triggers... See, a positive
41:25
thing came out of that understanding, which where
41:28
our triggers are and where they're... Maybe you
41:31
didn't understand the laws. You didn't know that
41:33
it wasn't okay to drink and drive. Yeah, and
41:35
where they're rooted. Because some of the stuff
41:38
that finds its way into our co -captaining and
41:40
our work life have really nothing to do. with
41:44
work or what the other person is doing to trigger
41:49
that, right? Might have to do with childhood
41:50
wounds for all we know. It could. So then how
41:55
I make sure that you know that - How many text
41:57
messages do you think I sent you and how many
42:00
did you send back to me? 10 to 1 ratio. 10 to
42:03
1 ratio, at least. Which usually when you do
42:06
rapid fire text messages, that's when I just
42:08
shut it down. I'm like, okay, we're, you know,
42:11
traffic stopping this. But see, I leave my red
42:14
receipts on for such an opportunity. Now, this
42:17
can backfire, but I'll read it and make sure
42:21
that you know I read it and then send something
42:24
snarky. See, it doesn't bother me because I knew
42:27
you were reading them and you weren't responding.
42:30
Yeah, and this could, well, I don't do it just
42:32
for you. Oh, okay. But now I do feel bad sometimes
42:34
if somebody sends me a message and I read it,
42:37
but then I'm busy and I forget to respond. Then
42:39
I think. what if they think, you know. So I got
42:42
in there for going on probably a slightly alcohol
42:45
-fueled text rant. With plenty of conspiracy
42:51
analysis layered in there. A lot of conspiracy
42:55
theory and some poking of the bear. Yes. Mixed
42:59
in. Yeah. But you gotta do something really robust
43:05
to get into... What Andy did to get into the
43:09
drug tank. I don't have a good example of Andy.
43:11
I'll give an example of somebody, but not by
43:13
name, that found themselves rapidly moving through
43:20
the illegal system. Somebody who came in and
43:29
worked with us an idea that we were pitching
43:33
and for a new innovation. And said, yeah, yeah,
43:44
here's what we're going to do. Promptly comes
43:46
back, rips the carpet out from underneath us,
43:50
says we're not going to do that. And then, you
43:57
know, this got this individual in jail because
44:00
they backed out and we kind of told them about
44:02
they had made a commitment. And so we made decisions
44:06
based off that. Then they got in prison. Because
44:09
about a month later, come to find out, they went
44:13
ahead and tried to move forward with our deal
44:16
that we had an agreement together on their own
44:20
without us. And those are people we just can't
44:25
work with. And so they're an energy vampire.
44:28
No need in trying to fix that one. No. So, but
44:36
we're almost here to Ben now. I feel like we
44:39
need to close the show down. Yeah. And I got
44:43
to pee. I got to pee too. Yeah, we'll see if
44:48
this actually makes it to people. I kind of enjoy
44:50
our rambles. I mean, I don't know how many times
44:55
we should do that a year. Three, four. But it
44:59
would be interesting if we started to engage
45:01
more with our listener base, what they want to
45:03
see. Seriously, how about nodirtnoflowers at
45:08
royfarms .com? That's not great, but... Or you
45:14
could just text Mike at 555 -867 -5309. That
45:22
is fortunately not my number. Yeah, closing it
45:26
down. I mean, yeah, co -captaining is something
45:31
new for both of us. It's not for the faint of
45:35
heart. No, I mean, I think that there's a lot
45:38
of self -awareness and healthy debate that needs
45:44
to happen in order to figure it out, right? And
45:50
it's a lot of times the hierarchy of an organization
45:58
shuts a lot of that down, I think. I'm not saying
46:02
I would recommend co -captaining. I think that
46:05
it... is working for us because of our intentions,
46:11
the level of self -awareness that we have. And
46:15
I don't think we went into this looking for healthy
46:19
debate. And I think that it looked like debate
46:21
and has been debate sometimes, but I think it's
46:25
definitely transitioned into healthy debate.
46:27
At least that's my opinion. Yeah, I agree. But
46:34
I think. The benefits for us outweigh the challenges
46:39
by a large margin. And... Oh, yeah. And it...
46:45
We've said this probably numerous times, but
46:49
it's going to take a lot of creativity and communication
46:51
to get to the other side of this. Yeah. I agree.
47:01
To get to the other side of this with, you know...
47:03
relationships intact and farm flourishing farm
47:10
flourishing is as many win -wins as we can find
47:13
yeah no dirt no flowers road rambles road rambles
47:21
to close this out what one question you have
47:25
for me and one question i have for you related
47:27
to co -captaining Is there any other person you'd
47:32
like to co -captain with more? No. Even if there
47:41
was, we have so much time invested at this point,
47:43
I wouldn't want to go through that process again.
47:46
Sun cost fallacy. I don't think it would work
47:54
with different personalities. I don't think it's
47:57
not set up to work. I'm not talking about our
48:01
situation, like co -captaining in general. I
48:03
don't think it's set up to really work well.
48:09
And yet? Oh, I guess what's one area for 2026
48:14
that you feel like we can improve on? We... Since
48:22
the ski season got away from us, our commitment
48:25
to get away for a strategic ski day at least
48:28
one afternoon a week has yet to happen. We've
48:33
got to find something where we get away and just
48:37
focus on things. Not dissimilar from our road
48:40
trip we're on right now. We still have business
48:45
things to attend to. Actually, I'm happy that
48:50
you brought that up. because thank you yeah we've
48:54
tried we tried last ski season and by tried i
48:58
mean we talked about it and set the intention
49:00
yeah so we need to make more of an attempt to
49:05
build on this co -captain relationship outside
49:10
of absolutely that's why we didn't have convention
49:14
a couple years ago i remember that work engagement
49:16
i remember walking under a bridge with you back
49:18
to the hotel from somewhere and you and julia
49:21
and me Alright, no dirt, no flowers. Peace. Later.