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Managing a Legal Practice from Two Continents with Mohamad Ahamad · Justice Team Podcast

• 0:02
  Welcome to this episode of the Justice Team Podcast on the Justice Team Network,
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  where we give practical advice to lawyers.
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  I'm your host, Bob Simon, and we are honored today to have Muhammad Ahmed
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  coming to us from Southern California, live from Los Angeles, who also
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  practices in Atlanta, some other states.
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  He has a bi coastal practice.
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  He also lives internationally and sometimes the United States, sometimes
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  other places, which we'll talk about how to do all those things.
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  And also being an amazing trial lawyer, I know he's a finalist this
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  year for Trialer of the Year for the biggest plaintiff bar organization.
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  Mo, thanks for coming on the show.
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  Thanks for having me.
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  Um, first of all, what, what, what's this shirt you're wearing?
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  I thought it was a hot dog cart, but what is this?
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  Yeah, A lot of people
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  think it's a hot dog cart.
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  This is actually a, uh, Jerusalem bread cart.
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  So if you, I live in Jerusalem, part-time, and they have these ancient bread ovens,
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  uh, like hundreds of years old, if not a thousand years old, where they cook.
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  Uh, they bake bread every day in the morning.
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  My father in law and my wife are obsessed with this type of bread.
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  It's like sesame bread I'm not really a big fan, but it's it's tasty.
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  So she got me this cool shirt in Jerusalem.
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  So
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  nice So yeah, that's talk.
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  Let's jump into that then.
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  I mean, I know your wife and kids are in Jerusalem You're
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  here in Southern, California.
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  Sometimes Georgia.
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  What's that like man?
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  It's fun in a way because you you get to go to Jerusalem and
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  Jerusalem is it's it's a city.
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  That's locked in time You Yeah, like when you're there, if there were no
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  cars, you would feel like you're back, you know, from the ancient times.
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  And there's actually some villages in Jerusalem and Israel and Palestine where
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  you actually can experience what it was like back in the time of Jesus, where you
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  have like the, and if you go to Nazareth, you get the, there's like a Christian
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  village and they do this, they, they kind of, it's like a museum, but you really
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  feel like you're back in the old day.
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  They do all of press by hand and they have like donkeys and stuff like that.
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  So it's a throwback time.
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  So, It's a throwback to time and it's also fun, you know, but it's also you
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  also miss your kids, you know So it's been about two years now not the two year mark.
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  That's when it really started being tough Being away from the kids for so long.
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  Yeah, I just saw a missed call from my kids elementary school
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  I know there's a problem.
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  So I text my wife and say They just called me.
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  It's likely our seven year old that's causing problems in school.
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  Do your kids ever cause problems in Jerusalem?
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  You have younger kids too, right?
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  You have twins?
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  Yeah, no, they're nine and seven now.
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  But my older kid always causes problems in Jerusalem.
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  He got caught with a vape at school.
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  Sounds very
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  familiar to what I just got.
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  Yeah, my
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  wife, freaking out, and I don't really care.
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  I'm like, whatever, where did he get it?
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  You know, that's funny.
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  Um, their kids, they'll, they'll do crazy things.
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  My younger kid, he, he initially had problems with the school,
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  but then he became like the fan favorite at the school.
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  And so my wife will go pick him up and he'll make everybody
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  stop the game when he's leaving.
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  And then my wife would be like, no, you can't be a dictator.
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  And the teacher would be like, no, no, he, we call him the director.
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  Like,
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  so how do you like, I mean, how do you realistically do this?
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  You have a litigation and trial practice.
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  And you guys do some complicated case.
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  I mean, you, you do a lot of electric shock, burn injury cases.
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  And then, I mean, I've seen the verdicts you've had, you know, eight figures, high
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  eight figures on these types of cases.
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  How are you able to, I mean, literally be what are they?
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  12, 11, 12 hours ahead in Jerusalem from Yeah, there are
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  10 hours ahead in Jerusalem.
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  So I work on American times.
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  So when I'm in Jerusalem, I go to sleep at five in the morning, six in the morning.
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  Sometimes I'll go to the ancient mosque, the Aqsa, the famous mosque at
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  like five in the morning, pray, come home and I'll fall asleep at like 6am.
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  And then I'll wake up at like one or 2pm there, spend some time
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  with the family, and then begin my work day at like six or 7pm there.
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  Wow.
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  And then I'll stay up all night.
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  You know, because if you sleep, you can't really sleep So I stay on American time.
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  And that's how I make it work.
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  But
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  so the, but you, how you still get family time in though, before the, your quote
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  unquote workday starts back in America.
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  Mm.
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  Yeah.
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  So like you get four or five hours of family time, which is realistically,
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  that's what happens here, right?
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  If you go to work early, you come home at six or seven, and then you spend
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  two or three hours with the kids and the wife, and then you go to sleep.
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  So it's kind of the same thing.
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  Obviously the, you know, the wife would prefer that I worked on Jerusalem
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  time, but I just work on American time.
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  And with, with COVID you can take depots.
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  I mean, do you have
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  any problems taking remote depositions from there?
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  No, never.
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  I mean, sometimes there's like sirens and shit going off, but
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  like other than that, no, you know, it's pretty, it's pretty chill.
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  And then what happens, you know, I mean, what's it like though?
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  Realistically, you have multiple, multiple week trials.
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  I know you had one in Northern California earlier this year.
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  I mean, how are you able to do that?
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  That's easier, right?
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  Because the family's not here.
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  So I spent six, it was last year we spent six weeks in Monterey.
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  And, you know, my business partner was flying home with his family, my
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  associate was flying home to spend time with his wife, I didn't have that.
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  So in a way it kind of makes it easier when you don't have the family to
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  go home to, you just have trials.
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  So I stayed up there the whole time.
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  Wow.
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  You know, so in that way it made it easier.
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  And then a month after that my friend got stuck in a crazy small case in
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  Georgia and was like freaking out like hey, I talked shit to the adjuster and
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  I can't try a case, can you help me?
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  So we flew, I flew from Tel Aviv to Atlanta and we tried a case, you know?
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  Yeah, you have an office in Atlanta as well.
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  Yeah,
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  and so that, so that, that's kind of fun and also stressful.
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  You know, where you're calling and you're like, dude, are they
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  really not gonna pay the 25, 000?
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  And he's like, yeah, they just offered 10, 000.
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  So fly down.
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  So it's like, alright, jump on a flight, fly down.
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  But what was cool about that?
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  Cases they actually paid for my flight Even though it's not a recoverable cost
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  He he just included it in the cost memo and they got scared because we got over
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  the policy limit And so they just paid everything attorneys fees costs Everything
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  well, thank you state farmer all state whoever it was for
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  paying for your trip to tel aviv.
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  It was progressive Yeah progressive.
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  Yeah, you're also a very progressive guy.
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  So look at that.
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  We tied it in.
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  Well, no, so The the I I do say this all the time as a trial lawyer The only
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  thing now that I physically need to be in person for these days You Or the trials.
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  Yes.
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  Yeah.
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  And you're a living, breathing
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  example
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  of this.
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  Yeah,
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  exactly.
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  I was literally in another country, 10 hours away, flew in, and then
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  within 48 hours I was picking a jury.
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  And since you're staying on American Time, you're not
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  dealing with jet lag or anything?
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  Yeah.
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  No.
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  And then the one thing is that, you know, with points and with status
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  and whatnot, I always get lie flat.
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  And so.
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  Yeah.
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  That makes it easier.
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  I think when you're sleeping on like, I can sleep on the plane the whole time.
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  Wow.
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  Yeah.
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  So walk us through.
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  So we talked about a little bit of the lifestyle stuff.
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  Um, do you have to operate on the same consistent type of systems?
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  I mean, you have Georgia's different practice law than
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  California where you're practicing.
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  So how are you able to, to manage that?
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  I mean, you guys on, on systems or anything like this.
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  Yeah, in terms of
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  like back end systems.
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  Yeah.
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  So what they're, they're very similar.
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  There are certain things that are different.
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  Um, what we try to do is make them the same, right?
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  So for example, in Georgia, you have trial, you have fact depots and trial
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  depots or they're actually distinct.
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  Right.
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  Um, and in California you kind of have that too.
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  Unless it's like a doctor that's unavailable or not.
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  So what we try to do is, is take whatever exception or whatever
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  there is and make them the same.
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  And so for in Georgia, you can, you can do a trial depo, uh, if it's,
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  you know, like the opposing party, you can use that for any purpose.
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  So we convert those into trial depos instead of it being a fact
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  that, but we make that a trial that on California, if the person's.
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  You know, like my Monterey case, everything was more than 150 miles out.
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  So every single depot was a trial depot.
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  And so you, you just try to make everything a trial depot and you
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  take a deposition like it's trial and depots really lead the case, right?
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  There's discovery there's back in discovery motions to compel, to kind
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  of bother them a little bit, but depositions are, are basically trial.
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  And so we try to treat our depots like trial depots, present them like trial
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  depots and use any excuse to make them.
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  Play that trial.
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  All right.
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  So that's that's transition over into your your trial practice litigation
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  practice and you're known for doing Catastrophic injury complex cases.
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  Let's talk about the burn in electric cases.
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  What are some things that I mean a lot of lawyers prefer you cases.
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  Yeah to work on first of all, how do they find you?
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  What's the easiest way for people to find you
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  you just you know email or text?
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  You know, I mean like I I don't know Probably text is
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  better than email, you know,
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  text.
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  Yes.
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  I think I hardly check emails.
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  I check our slack chats on justice HQ.
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  I check my texts and that's about it.
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  Even a voicemail.
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  Like I'm not gonna, I check my voicemail.
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  I'm like, Oh shit.
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  I got, especially since I'm always traveling.
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  So if I'm on the plane and I get a voicemail, I normally
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  don't check my voicemails.
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  So I just get the
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  transcribed voice because there's no way I'm ever going to listen to it.
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  Yeah.
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  I know you call it.
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  I saw the missed call.
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  You leave a message and if it's transcribed.
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  Um, so.
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  Uh, walk us through what, what we're, what we're missing on these
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  electric shock cases, because a lot of 'em, sometimes they're public
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  entities against Edison or some of the things like, what are we missing?
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  The, the biggest thing people are missing is that, is don't be afraid
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  if the symptoms are delayed, because that's when, you know the client
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  is actually telling the truth is when the symptoms are delayed.
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  And so, so, you know, the defense counsel will tell me like, oh, your client didn't
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  present with all these issues right away.
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  And I go, dude, if he did, he'd be a fraud.
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  You know, unless it's like a super catastrophic case, because you're going
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  to have issues with like seizures six months out, you know, so if the, if the
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  client's presenting with seizures right away, that's abnormal, but, but six months
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  out a year out, that's, that is normal.
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  They don't know because with electrical cases, most people die, right?
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  So if your client survived, it's either not severe or it's super severe and
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  they don't know what to do with it.
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  I mean, how many electrical cases are there?
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  There's probably in history that, that survived a catastrophic electrical shock.
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  And so doctors don't know what they're doing on those issues.
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  Doctors sometimes don't know what they're doing on a neck issue, right?
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  Like trial and error.
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  Yeah.
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  Well, like we, um, we had one electrical shock case where it was so powerful.
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  Guy lost his arm.
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  Yeah,
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  I mean, and you know, there's a I mean, that was one of the most
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  contentious litigations We had and we resolved it for a lot, but it was
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  their hard liability cases, right?
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  Yeah So and I'm sure he had
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  a brain injury too.
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  Yep, but they disputed that and they're like, oh, this is just an arm
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  case That's what they did in mind.
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  This is just so what
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  because these are very In me because a lot of times we have electric shock cases.
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  It's usually a premises case of something.
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  Yeah Right.
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  And then sometimes there's a public entity involved.
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  Yeah.
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  So walk us through the target defendants on these types of cases
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  and what things you're looking for.
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  So the, the target defendants, like you said, it's going to be a public
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  utility, which in California you need a six month notice in Georgia, you need a
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  one year notice or six months depending.
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  You have to file a claim.
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  You have to file a claim.
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  And in, in, in Georgia, they're very slick about that.
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  Like in California, they're more loose with it.
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  But in Georgia, they'll, they'll try to evade service and be like,
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  Oh, you, you served it to my office, but you didn't serve it to my desk.
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  And that, and so it's.
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  And they'll file a motion to dismiss.
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  So whenever there's a public entity involved, you definitely want to get like
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  a high level technical lawyer involved because you can mess those up very easily.
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  Then you also look at like, even if they're not an actual utility,
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  they might be a quasi utility.
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  Like in our case, it was the largest manufacturer of solar panels in the world.
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  And the largest generator of solar power private, you know, so they're
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  effectively a utility, even though they're not officially a utility.
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  And they, they, there's a lot of lobbying involved so they
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  don't get regulated as a utility.
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  Um, and then so you, you, you go to them and you find out, okay, what did you do?
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  And then obviously they try to disclaim liability, blame it on the
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  employee, because workers comp in Georgia and California is a bar.
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  If, if, if the, if you can't sue your own employer, generally speaking.
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  Um, and so that's what you're trying to do.
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  You're trying to find the, the big entity, trying to define what they are.
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  Are they public or private?
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  And depending on what benefits them, they'll define themselves
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  as public or private.
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  If there's an immunity, they'll say, Oh, we're public.
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  If there's no immunity, they'll say, Oh, we're private.
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  That's where
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  you can't trip up and, You got to file the claim form, be safe, you
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  know, yeah, you know, and that's where like a lot of people don't realize is
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  there's a lot of target defendants.
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  It's usually an employee that gets hurt.
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  I mean, every case that I've had is the same way.
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  And do you have that workers comp crossover?
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  Crossover, yep.
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  And a lot of times if you can actually show the employer was negligent,
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  you can get big reduction or get the employee's medical lien waived.
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  Yeah.
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  And so in our case, the jury found that they were, that the employer and the
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  employee, my client was negligent or were negligent because both of them, but
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  they were not the substantial factor.
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  So we got a hundred percent liability.
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  And that was worth, you know, the 160, 000 medical lien, you know, like it's
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  like that, that, you know, if they got 10%, it would have reduced the verdict.
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  How do
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  you prove that there was a surge of electricity that came
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  from the public entity and not an employee severing the line?
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  So.
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  So for that, what I would recommend is first, the lawyer needs to kind of become
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  an expert like in my office right now, in my actual physical office, there's
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  a, there's the box that triggered the injury and, uh, and, uh, and another
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  for, for the most re for that case.
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  And for the most recent case that we just settled for five, five and a
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  half, nearly five and a half million.
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  I kind of recreated the incident in my office again.
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  Um, I think the lawyer needs to be able to explain it to.
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  to the jury.
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  So the lawyer needs to be the expert.
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  So for my Monterey case, I was the smartest person in the room on that issue.
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  And the jury kind of learned that right away.
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  Even though I'm not as articulate, I stutter like the defense lawyer was
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  way more articulate, less stuttering, more polished, but he didn't know
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  his ass from his elbow when it came to the to the actual incident.
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  How did you learn this stuff?
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  I physically went to the site.
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  I went to Talk to my client endlessly, talk to other people endlessly.
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  And then, and I recommend you do that early on because then when you start
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  talking to third party witnesses, like we interviewed dozens of third party
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  witnesses, they're skeptical, right?
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  They're like, who is this lawyer?
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  They have their own lawyer cause it's the employer.
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  So they're represented.
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  But as soon as they talked to me for five minutes, even the, the, my,
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  my co, the employer's lawyers were like, dude, this guy knows his shit.
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  And so they all trusted.
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  me.
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  And so they would, they cooperate it.
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  And that's not, that's not always the case, but it took a lot of,
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  uh, time on my part, like to, to understand what was going on.
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  I talked to other lawyers, they helped me understand it.
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  Um, and just workshopping the case.
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  Like I, this, that case was an example of teamwork.
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  Like Justice HQ met with dozens of lawyers and we talked about it.
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  Um, Cala lawyers helped me on Cala, Gary Dordick helped me, um, . Sean Claggett.
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  Mm-Hmm.
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  . You know Claggett.
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  Matt Granda is on JJ hq.
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  Sean Claggett.
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  And Jordan Logan.
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  I spent a whole day with them working on the case.
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  Dan Ambrose from TLU weeks with Dan Ambrose prepping the case.
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  'cause Dan is like a freaking workhorse.
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  So he forced me to work on the case.
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  And then the Jerry Spence College, like, it was literally
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  like a Jerry Spence verdict.
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  There was four of us from the ranch there,
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  you know.
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  Wow.
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  And you, I mean, what it was, how big was the verdict?
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  Four 51 million.
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  51 million.
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  Yeah.
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  And you know.
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  You talked about the labor of love, the stuff that you have
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  to do in the prep to get there.
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  Now, one thing you did was very creative on, and it's very hard to
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  understand, is the damages in this case.
• 15:41
  Yes.
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  So how did you work up the brain injury, the general damages for an electrocution?
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  So, so the, the way we did, the way we did it is we, um, one thing I don't like
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  to use, I don't like to use lien doctors.
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  And so we used the workers' comp doctors to establish the dam damages
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  and you can usually videotape their depositions Yes.
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  As a treating doctor.
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  Exactly.
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  And then what I did is.
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  I used before and after witnesses and I even used the defense
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  witnesses to establish how badass my client was to the project.
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  And I told the jury, I said, look, we're asking for, you know,
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  46 million in damages for Kelly.
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  I said, don't look at the day before the incident.
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  You know, I want you to look 18 months before when this billion dollar project
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  was on death's door and they called Kelly, my client to come save the project.
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  I said, this is how the phone conversation would go 18 months before the incident.
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  Hey, this project is in the hole.
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  We need Kelly.
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  And the CEO says, get Kelly, whatever it costs, get him
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  over there to fix this project.
• 16:41
  That's a billion dollar project.
• 16:41
  We need him.
• 16:43
  And they'd be like, we can't, he's, he's damaged.
• 16:45
  He's like, what's it going to cost to fix him?
• 16:46
  46 million.
• 16:47
  He'll say, write the check.
• 16:48
  He's worth every penny.
• 16:50
  I was like, that's how you have to look at it.
• 16:51
  Don't look at it the day after when he's useless to the company.
• 16:54
  Look at it when the company needed him the most and he delivered.
• 16:57
  And that's who he was.
• 16:58
  Even the defense was like, we all knew who he was.
• 17:00
  He was a badass.
• 17:02
  And that's what a lot of lawyers get, you know, they think they have to over
• 17:05
  expert the case, get a neurologist, a neuropsychologist, and I'm, I'm like
• 17:09
  you, I think before and after witnesses, and maybe a physiatrist that can piece
• 17:13
  it all together to meet the standard,
• 17:15
  and that's all you need.
• 17:16
  That's it, and that was our main witness, the physiatrist.
• 17:19
  Which one, if you don't mind saying?
• 17:20
  Topher
• 17:20
  Stevenson.
• 17:21
  Oh,
• 17:21
  he's awesome.
• 17:22
  And the
• 17:22
  reason I like Topher is he actually cares.
• 17:25
  He met with the client.
• 17:26
  He legit cares.
• 17:27
  He was a smoke jumper.
• 17:28
  So he himself is a badass physically What is a
• 17:31
  smoke jumper
• 17:32
  where they like go in and they I believe it's when they go in and they they try
• 17:36
  to like Uh prevent the uh limit the exposure of the fire So they they get
• 17:40
  dropped in they get dropped into like a danger site and they freaking she's yeah
• 17:45
  So he's a legit badass himself So he and my client was a badass so they could
• 17:49
  relate to each other I couldn't relate to my client my client could Bench more
• 17:53
  than me even after the injury, right?
• 17:55
  So I was like, we can't relate to each other, dude.
• 17:57
  I'm going to do Eve, you know, like, so we're not going to relate,
• 18:00
  but Topher could relate to him.
• 18:01
  But Topher is also a bad ass.
• 18:03
  Yeah.
• 18:03
  I think physiatrist is the way to go.
• 18:05
  Treating physician.
• 18:05
  He gave them, and he didn't even do expensive stuff.
• 18:08
  He did like this cream.
• 18:09
  And my client's like, this cream is working.
• 18:10
  I was like, so we don't need a surgery then, you know, don't
• 18:13
  be afraid to do less medicine.
• 18:15
  If the, if the damage is there.
• 18:16
  And in my case, the damage was clearly there.
• 18:18
  Anybody with the, Even a blind person could see the damage was there.
• 18:21
  Right.
• 18:21
  So, but it was just communicating that story and maximizing the damages.
• 18:25
  Yeah.
• 18:25
  So I know, um, I know how, I know how to find you by text or slack adjust
• 18:29
  HQ and to find you on attorney shared to refer you cases for those that are
• 18:33
  out there, but how do other folks find you if they want to get educated on.
• 18:36
  You know how to how to have an international practice and family
• 18:39
  or to litigate these tough cases.
• 18:41
  How do they find you?
• 18:41
  Yeah,
• 18:42
  just hit me up or my business partner ray Uh rk at kermani lop
• 18:46
  or ma at kermani lop and you know, we're down to talk to anybody.
• 18:50
  Thanks Well mo thanks for coming on the show big fan of yours Uh, this is
• 18:54
  the justice team network justice team podcast and he's the go to for these
• 18:58
  types of cases Thanks for coming on buddy.
• 18:59
  Thanks.
• 19:00
  Thanks, bro