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102. Satanic Panic · Who Did What Now With Katie Charlwood

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Speaker 1: You're listening to an airwave media podcast. Hello delicious friends,
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Speaker 1: and welcome to Who Did What Now? The history podcast
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Speaker 1: That's not your history class with me your host Katie Charlewood,
0:27
Speaker 1: history harlote and reader of books. And I've done it again.
0:32
Speaker 1: I have upset the menfolk. Yes, I posted a video
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Speaker 1: about how males who complain about men not getting matches
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Speaker 1: on dating sites, like, have they ever considered that the
0:47
Speaker 1: reason why is because they're generally quite unappealing? And then
0:51
Speaker 1: I go out to list the reasons why, like you know,
0:55
Speaker 1: dodgy pictures, no pictures of yourself, like scenery, random animals,
0:59
Speaker 1: or pictures of you holding like a dead animal, Like
1:03
Speaker 1: here's a selfie with a corpse like there you have
1:07
Speaker 1: to be a certain level of goth for that, and
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Speaker 1: it's the wrong type of type of corpse. But yeah,
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Speaker 1: I had one dude who was complaining like, oh, but
1:20
Speaker 1: they're showing that they can hunt for you, and they
1:22
Speaker 1: can provide food if you're in dire need, and like
1:27
Speaker 1: Aldi and Little are not expensive, like you can still
1:30
Speaker 1: buy food from there. There's the food shelters and no fiends.
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Speaker 1: If you want to show me that you can provide
1:39
Speaker 1: food for me all year round. Grow a fucking potato.
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Speaker 1: Just grow a potato, right, they love potatoes. Right. I
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Speaker 1: was at work the other day and I was an
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Speaker 1: iron jumper eating eating a bowl of potatoes, and I
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Speaker 1: was like, okay, this is me now, like the Irish
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Speaker 1: is fully set in. It's like, ah, yes, iron junkers
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Speaker 1: and potatoes, all of the stereotypes. If only I drank whiskey.
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Speaker 1: Apparently anyway, so I had a few people get really
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Speaker 1: really mad about it, and then a few people people,
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Speaker 1: a few men call me like an ice wor and
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Speaker 1: ugly and stuff, which was very fun when so many women,
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Speaker 1: so many women were just like, yeah, no, we'd pick
2:31
Speaker 1: her over you any daybody. He got so ratio and
2:37
Speaker 1: it was so funny. But that was that was a
2:40
Speaker 1: good time. I just a reminder if you have not
2:44
Speaker 1: yet bought your tickets for any of my shows, for
2:48
Speaker 1: my History Harlots Tour, yeah I named it. Now, let's
2:51
Speaker 1: get a name. It's the History Harlots Tour. So that's
2:57
Speaker 1: gonna be and double and I'll remember this. Dublin Brighton,
3:05
Speaker 1: if you're in Britain, tell your friends, tell your enemies,
3:08
Speaker 1: tell them to come see me. I'll be very funny
3:11
Speaker 1: on the night, I promise. I usually am. So I've
3:13
Speaker 1: got Brighton, I've got Manchester, and then i have Glasgow
3:17
Speaker 1: and then I'm back home. Apparently I decided that sleep
3:21
Speaker 1: is for the week and make it worth awhile and
3:24
Speaker 1: actually show up. Lad, So if buy some tickets by
3:27
Speaker 1: the tickets and the description down below. But I know
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Speaker 1: what you're thinking. You're thinking, Katie, quite your jibber jabber
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Speaker 1: in fact me, in fact you, I will. But first
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Speaker 1: we've got to get our source on. Our sources are
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Speaker 1: moral panics. The Social Construction of Devians by Nachman, Ben
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Speaker 1: Hudda and Eric good Justice supported in nineteen eighties. Witch
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Speaker 1: Hunt by Shirley Downing, Sable Identities and false Memories, a
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Speaker 1: socio cognitive perspective by NP Spanos. Satanism, ritual abuse and
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Speaker 1: multiple personality disorder a socio historical perspective by Cheryl Mulhern.
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Speaker 1: The Creation of Satanic ritual abuse by Susan L. Davis
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Speaker 1: and Bette L. Bottoms, Michelle Remembers by Lawrence Pastor, and
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Speaker 1: Evil Incarnate. Rumors of Demonic conspiracy and ritual abuse in
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Speaker 1: history by D. Frankfurter Io sading comfortably good. Then let's
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Speaker 1: begin gather around, delicious friends, and let me regale you
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Speaker 1: with this horrible tale. Of course it is. Of course
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Speaker 1: it's bad. It's history. It's generally quite sad. That wasn't
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Speaker 1: meant to be a Rember. We're just gonna go with it.
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Speaker 1: It's fu to worry about it. Everything's okay. But yet
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Speaker 1: the Satanic Panic, Now panics definition are unhinged. And I
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Speaker 1: say this as someone with you know, an anxiety disorder
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Speaker 1: who has panic attacks like unhinged, right, And you could
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Speaker 1: be forgiven for thinking that the Satanic Panic was just
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Speaker 1: a you know, like a cluster of religious nuts, you know,
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Speaker 1: people who are like super into Jesus being super against
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Speaker 1: the devil. Again, you could be you could be forgiven that.
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Speaker 1: But it is so much worse and so weirder than
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Speaker 1: you would think. Like the reasons why and how it
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Speaker 1: came about and how it spread, I mean, I mean
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Speaker 1: it all starts with Henry the Eighth. Really, yeah, this
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Speaker 1: is one of those domino effects in history where Henry
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Speaker 1: the Eighth leads to the Satanic Panic in North America
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Speaker 1: and why it's so prevalent there specifically, And so this
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Speaker 1: again Domino effect leads to rumors of Satanic ritual abuse
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Speaker 1: and baseless conspiracy theories, with even the most like logical
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Speaker 1: and reasonable and who should be you know, rational of
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Speaker 1: people like believing in these conspiracy theories. Now, I've spoken
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Speaker 1: about the backfire effect and things like that. How even
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Speaker 1: when you present someone with evidence, like if it goes
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Speaker 1: against what they believe, you know, they'll just dig their
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Speaker 1: heels and harder and believe it even more, which is
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Speaker 1: how we have Trump supporters now, Reasonable reasonable human beings
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Speaker 1: believe that daycare workers we're performing ritual sacrifices with young children,
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Speaker 1: and that's some companies and corporations were agents of Satan.
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Speaker 1: I don't know. I think somebody somewhere might have sold
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Speaker 1: they're sold to the devil or to have a TV
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Speaker 1: career like Dan Schneider. But anyway, people all across North
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Speaker 1: America were convinced that Satanic cults were just like all
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Speaker 1: over Canada, the US, et cetera. They not just all over,
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Speaker 1: but were widespread and were infiltrating all sectors of everywhere.
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Speaker 1: Like people genuinely believe there was some sort of secret
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Speaker 1: Satanic like cult infiltration. Even though there wasn't one like
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Speaker 1: shred of evidence of any of this ever existing. Ever,
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Speaker 1: like this led to people going to jail, that people
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Speaker 1: served prison terms, they lost their jobs, like children suffered
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Speaker 1: so much trauma. And the worst thing is because everyone
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Speaker 1: was so focused on this like satanic concept that they
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Speaker 1: were children who were being hurt and abused and the
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Speaker 1: system wasn't looking for them or taking care of them
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Speaker 1: because all the focus and the attention was on this.
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Speaker 1: I mean, it's not like other countries in the world
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Speaker 1: don't believe that there's a Satan thing. They do Italy.
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Speaker 1: I assume it's pretty Catholic where the Spanish are, or
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Speaker 1: at least where they invaded, pretty Catholic. You know, all
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Speaker 1: that kind of thing, right, But this is definitely another level.
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Speaker 1: So again, this all starts with Henry the Eighth. So
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Speaker 1: he creates the Church of England because he wants to
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Speaker 1: shag and to have God be okay with that, Yeah, basically,
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Speaker 1: and that's how that came about. Oh and he also
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Speaker 1: like really wanted his son to continue his lineage, but
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Speaker 1: that didn't happen, So he creates the Church of England.
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Speaker 1: You've got Protestants, you've got Catholics. And you can be
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Speaker 1: like the Anglican Church is technically both Protestant and Catholic.
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Speaker 1: The whole point is that it wasn't Catholic. So the
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Speaker 1: church is split. You end up with Catholics and Protestants,
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Speaker 1: and you know they kind of flitter because then you
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Speaker 1: get Edward, who's like proper promoting Protestantism. Then you get
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Speaker 1: married who you know, super Catholic, very much into that.
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Speaker 1: Then you have Elizabeth the First, who is well more
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Speaker 1: Protestant than anything else, which is funny because that just
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Speaker 1: how she was raised. And she kind of passes laws
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Speaker 1: and kind of allows kind of allows like both to practice,
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Speaker 1: but the main sort of religion of England as you know, Protestantism.
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Speaker 1: But yeah, she basically passes some laws to make things
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Speaker 1: like okay esh for people to love. And there's this
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Speaker 1: branch of Protestants called Puritans, and they're like super following
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Speaker 1: the word of Jesus. They're really into the Bible and
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Speaker 1: like they're like they're standing up to Satan because the
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Speaker 1: keys he's hanging around, he's trying to lure you away
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Speaker 1: from the path of God whenever he gets the chance,
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Speaker 1: Like here is the snake that's talking to you in
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Speaker 1: the Garden of Eden, even though there is nothing in
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Speaker 1: the Bible to actually suggest that the snake is in
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Speaker 1: fact the devil, although Satan is just a monarcher within
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Speaker 1: the that's not the point. It's not the time for
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Speaker 1: a theological rant. But basically, the Puritans are like, ah,
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Speaker 1: you're not structed enough for us, or we're gonna go elsewhere. Now,
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Speaker 1: there's this myth that the Puritans left England because of
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Speaker 1: religious begotry, but that's not the case. Well, kind they
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Speaker 1: had gone to mainland Europe, and the reason they ended
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Speaker 1: up over in America, you know, isn't because of discrimination
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Speaker 1: and begotry and whatnot. It's because they felt their children
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Speaker 1: were becoming too European. Like there's literal diary entries whe
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Speaker 1: people are like, young Jeremiah here is becoming too Dutch.
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Speaker 1: Like genuinely, they were worried they were losing their englishness
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Speaker 1: and so they're like, we need to preserve this our
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Speaker 1: religious in englishness, and so they sailed across to America,
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Speaker 1: where for some reason, everything is more extreme. You don't
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Speaker 1: just have a large, you have a super deeper, gussly
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Speaker 1: extra large, like your cars are just trucks, like they're
12:22
Speaker 1: monster trucks, like people own these, they're huge, Like you
12:26
Speaker 1: don't need anything that big. Why why do you need that?
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Speaker 1: Like I've I've seen some of your burgers. Man, you
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Speaker 1: do not need that. Mmmm. But yes, these Puritans make
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Speaker 1: their way to the New World. They settle there, they
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Speaker 1: colonize it, and these colonies they are basically the seeds
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Speaker 1: that will grow into what will become the USA and Canada.
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Speaker 1: So I don't know if you've noticed, if you've watched
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Speaker 1: the television, but religion still much, pretty big, pretty big
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Speaker 1: deal in the States, like you have TV evangelists and
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Speaker 1: everything now, like it is everywhere, and like even if
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Speaker 1: you take into consideration when the Puritans came in, like
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Speaker 1: you have moral panics, like from the get go, like
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Speaker 1: you've got the Salem Witch Trials of all things, where
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Speaker 1: they're like these women have opinions, they are clearly which
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Speaker 1: is okay, cool, Isaac, thanks for that. Like they hung
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Speaker 1: and drowned and set women on fire, like that's not
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Speaker 1: something rational people do. Like that is again unhinged as
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Speaker 1: fuck ergo a panic. I mean most of them were
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Speaker 1: actually like just hung at this point. If you were
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Speaker 1: borned that came later, but still it was the starting point.
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Speaker 1: But what has become witches because they rim the devil
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Speaker 1: and write in his book, but they do rim the devil.
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Speaker 1: That's part of it. The devil has a very specific kink.
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Speaker 1: That kink is rimming. It's actually pretty mild. When you
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Speaker 1: think that it's satan, you think you'd be worse, you
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Speaker 1: think you'd have some creepy stuff, but no, pretty pretty
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Speaker 1: fair actually when you think about it, and the grand
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Speaker 1: scheme of things. But yeah, the face of evil, the devil,
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Speaker 1: Belzebub or whatever, I don't know. They're just like super
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Speaker 1: scared of him. And this Christian sort of undertone just
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Speaker 1: continues throughout the growth of the nation, and it gets
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Speaker 1: to the point where people start rejecting this attitude. And
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Speaker 1: it only really really comes to fruition in like the
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Speaker 1: mid nineteen hundreds. So by the time you get to
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Speaker 1: the nineteen sixties nineteen seventies, people are starting to reject
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Speaker 1: their sort of boomer parents and this tight lipped, you know,
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Speaker 1: stiff way of being. I when you've got things like
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Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine, the Summer of Free Love, you've got
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Speaker 1: sort of all these breakaways from from you know, the
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Speaker 1: structure that was before. You've got the civil rights movement happening,
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Speaker 1: You've got like women's rights. It's all sort of burgeoning
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Speaker 1: from here and building up. And so when these people
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Speaker 1: start to become adults, the time you get to like
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Speaker 1: the late seventies and eighties, there's there's a lot going
15:48
Speaker 1: on because you've got this break from what the traditional
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Speaker 1: culture was, but you still have a lot of this
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Speaker 1: religious undertone. Then of course media follows, So in the
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Speaker 1: early seventies, you've got The Exorcist, You've got Rosemary's Baby,
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Speaker 1: and there was another one, the one with the Spooky House,
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Speaker 1: Amityville Horror. So you have these basic sort of demonic
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Speaker 1: possession type movies all coming out one after another, and
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Speaker 1: it just, I mean, it came at a really weird
16:27
Speaker 1: time when you think that in nineteen seventy one, the
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Speaker 1: Exorcist is released, like the novel, when two years earlier,
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Speaker 1: Charles Manson's gang, his family, you know, they had horrifically
16:42
Speaker 1: murdered Shannon Tate and other people. And then in the seventies,
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Speaker 1: for some strange reason, a lot of serial killers or
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Speaker 1: the fact that people just actually started paying attention to
16:54
Speaker 1: serial killers transport I feel was a big player in this,
17:00
Speaker 1: but that's neither here nor there. But you've got Son
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Speaker 1: of Sam, the zdiot killer, Jeffrey Dahmer Ted Bundy, like
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Speaker 1: the I Five Killers. Like there's there's loads happening and
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Speaker 1: run over the same time as well, the Church of
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Speaker 1: Satan is established. So you've got aunt Tom Bay and
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Speaker 1: he's got this Church of Satan and he writes the
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Speaker 1: Satanic Bible, which sounds bad, but the core like tenants,
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Speaker 1: like the main point of it is like don't be
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Speaker 1: a dick. It's like care about other people, be respectful,
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Speaker 1: like respect yourself, which is you know, kind of feels
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Speaker 1: like what the Bible, Bible should be saying. I mean
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Speaker 1: it does. It's the Bible is just the Torah with DLC,
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Speaker 1: and it does lead to what was it now the
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Speaker 1: New Testament, which for the most part is Jesus going
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Speaker 1: fight the power, like make them break etiquette, make them
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Speaker 1: break their own rules, stand up to authority, and also
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Speaker 1: stop doing all this dodgy stuff and be nice to people. Also,
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Speaker 1: I should note that members of like the Satanic Temple
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Speaker 1: or whatever, the Church of Satan, those are two different things.
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Speaker 1: I discovered at a pagan festival. But the point is
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Speaker 1: the Church of Satan doesn't actually worship Satan, like that's
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Speaker 1: not a thing, but like the symbol of the devil
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Speaker 1: is used, and the reason they use that is basically
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Speaker 1: sticking two fingers up to like most Abrahamic legends, like yeah,
18:51
Speaker 1: a Christianity now, like we're gonna be better and we're
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Speaker 1: doing this to say fuck you. That's basically it, right,
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Speaker 1: and so it's so it's so weird. So this all
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Speaker 1: builds up until we reached the nineteen eighties. Oh yeah,
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Speaker 1: and this is where everything starts off. So there are
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Speaker 1: like two events that sort of encapsulate this situation. The
19:25
Speaker 1: first of which is something that isn't even allowed today
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Speaker 1: in psychology, and it is like repressed memories. So this
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Speaker 1: Canadian psychiatrist, Lawrence Pastor, he writes this book, like co
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Speaker 1: writes this book with his now wife or is then
19:46
Speaker 1: he married. His patient feels unethical just putting it out there.
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Speaker 1: So he has his patient and she is struggling. Michelle Smith.
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Speaker 1: She grew up in nineteen fifties in British Columbia in Canada,
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Speaker 1: and she didn't have a good time of it, so
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Speaker 1: she'd gone to see the psychiatrist because she's had a
20:13
Speaker 1: miscarriage and she was feeling depressed, like you know, you
20:17
Speaker 1: can get postnatal depression even after a miscarriage, Like that's
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Speaker 1: a thing, and that's what's happening. She was suffering depression
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Speaker 1: and grief and and everything that goes along with that.
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Speaker 1: And she goes to see the psychiatrist and Lawrence is like,
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Speaker 1: we need to use progression hypnosis, and he recovers a
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Speaker 1: series of repressed memories, and within these memories, buried within
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Speaker 1: them is the tale that Michelle had been a victim
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Speaker 1: of Satanic cult abuse all the way through her childhood.
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Speaker 1: So she's going through the hypnosis and she suddenly remembers
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Speaker 1: this abusive upbringing, how she'd been held in cages with snakes,
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Speaker 1: and how she was forced to watch as members of
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Speaker 1: the cult along with her mother like slaughtered kittens and
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Speaker 1: like other young animals in front of her. She was
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Speaker 1: in a cage with snakes and watched kittens get ritual sacrificed.
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Speaker 1: Like in the book, it says that there's eighty one
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Speaker 1: consecutive days in which they're trying to like summon Satan,
21:43
Speaker 1: and they're like trying to do this and shockingly enough
21:48
Speaker 1: doesn't work, and like it tries to link it to
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Speaker 1: the Church of Satan, but considering that was invented in
21:54
Speaker 1: like the Seven Days eighties, it doesn't really fit in
21:58
Speaker 1: the timeline. So if this is the nineteen fifties, it's
22:02
Speaker 1: not really it in the mark. So Michelle Smith like
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Speaker 1: claims that she manages to escape the Satanic cult because
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Speaker 1: she is personally saved by Mary and Jesus. I feel
22:19
Speaker 1: like we should all take the story with a punch
22:20
Speaker 1: of salt. I'm just putting it out there. And she
22:26
Speaker 1: tells a story and nobody thinks that's a bit weird,
22:31
Speaker 1: Like there's no information regarding this, and you're saying, Jesus,
22:37
Speaker 1: the Son of God and the Virgin Mother Mary saved
22:41
Speaker 1: you from a cult, like physically, oh okay, Michelle cool.
22:48
Speaker 1: Now this like goes wild because people like are just
22:55
Speaker 1: eating up this story, Like she ends up on like
22:58
Speaker 1: talk shows and stuff like it is it is madness
23:04
Speaker 1: and the thing is as well. Michelle believes that these
23:07
Speaker 1: are repressed memories, and there is this whole concept of
23:14
Speaker 1: like if there are memories buried in your subconscious like
23:16
Speaker 1: that they are the repressed to protect you. There's not
23:21
Speaker 1: a lot of evidence for that actually, but yeah, this
23:29
Speaker 1: this type of therapy isn't actually used anymore at all
23:33
Speaker 1: because it would use things like psychotropic drugs, it would
23:36
Speaker 1: use the power of suggestion, you can use very leading
23:39
Speaker 1: questions and oh no, kind of makes it like a
23:42
Speaker 1: really bad like psychology psychiatry technique. But the end, I'm
23:48
Speaker 1: like doing this massive book to They're like traveling all
23:51
Speaker 1: over to and promote this book, and people are eating
23:53
Speaker 1: it up in the media. Don't think to question any
23:58
Speaker 1: of this anywhere. No, Okay, then that's that's fine. That's fine.
24:05
Speaker 1: Like Lawrence even ends up like testifying in cases as
24:09
Speaker 1: a satanic cult expert, like it is wild. And this
24:16
Speaker 1: book inspires a bunch more books of like oh we
24:20
Speaker 1: were abused by the satanic cults, like keeps coming out
24:25
Speaker 1: like all these copycats one after the other, and more
24:30
Speaker 1: stories of satanic panics start popping up all over and
24:34
Speaker 1: this leads us to the Karen County case, what do
24:38
Speaker 1: you like to call it? The Keren County witch Hunt.
24:40
Speaker 1: So it's the early eighties and Mary Ann Barber comes
24:45
Speaker 1: forward stating that her two granddaughters well are claiming that
24:50
Speaker 1: their parents, Alvin and Debbie Kewan, are abusing them and
24:56
Speaker 1: not just like regular one of the mill abuse, which
25:00
Speaker 1: I know is a weird thing to say, but yeah,
25:03
Speaker 1: like it gets weird. They're talking about how they're like
25:07
Speaker 1: hung from hooks, like from the ceiling, and they're like
25:11
Speaker 1: being with belts, and again that one's actually bit more typical.
25:15
Speaker 1: And these allegations they were getting worse and worse and worse.
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Speaker 1: They were escalating every time, and the mcuans they're arrested,
25:26
Speaker 1: and naturally they don't want to be arrested, so they
25:28
Speaker 1: ask their pals to be character witnesses for them. So
25:31
Speaker 1: Scott and Brenda, who were then accused of being part
25:35
Speaker 1: of a satanic cult sex ring and their two sons
25:40
Speaker 1: had also been victims. So like, these kids are like
25:43
Speaker 1: interrogated without their parents, and the police are you know,
25:47
Speaker 1: asking them these big ridiculous questions and they're basically agreeing
25:52
Speaker 1: to it. So then the mcuitans, the Nephans, and then
25:56
Speaker 1: a bunch more of their pals they're all around still
26:00
Speaker 1: in charged with like child abuse, even though there is
26:06
Speaker 1: shockingly absolutely no evidence to back this up. Like there's
26:09
Speaker 1: no evidence, there no injuries, to the children. There's no
26:13
Speaker 1: ritual paraphernalia. There's not an adult witness anywhere, or at least,
26:20
Speaker 1: you know, an appropriate witness. I'm not saying don't believe kids.
26:24
Speaker 1: Obviously do believe kids, but like, this is a very
26:26
Speaker 1: specific and weird like thing to be saying. This. Sheriff
26:32
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty five claims that there were at least
26:35
Speaker 1: seventy six other people who were involved in this satanic
26:39
Speaker 1: child molestation cult. Not Satanic children, but a Satanic cult
26:46
Speaker 1: that molests children, and that they are like not only
26:51
Speaker 1: molesting children, but like killing children and eating them. The cannibalism.
26:58
Speaker 1: Are we shocked cannibalism has come to the table, granted
27:03
Speaker 1: considering my content, No, not at all. So many people
27:08
Speaker 1: are believing this, like bizarre claims that a ten man
27:14
Speaker 1: task force is put together in Karen County and the
27:17
Speaker 1: whole point of this task force is to uncover evidence
27:21
Speaker 1: of Satanic abuse. So they're looking for blood, rituals, you know,
27:28
Speaker 1: missing murdered children, proof of cannibalism, like all of this,
27:33
Speaker 1: like that's on their agenda. But they don't find anything.
27:40
Speaker 1: They find nothing. This dedicated task force specifically for this
27:45
Speaker 1: find zero and it gets to the point that it's
27:56
Speaker 1: so weird because it's such a new crime and even
28:01
Speaker 1: like the law, they don't know how to prosecute this.
28:05
Speaker 1: Like you've got attorneys that don't know what to do,
28:07
Speaker 1: you've got cops that don't know what to do. And
28:10
Speaker 1: the worst part is like amongst this is there are
28:14
Speaker 1: clear like child abuse cases happening, But because they're so
28:20
Speaker 1: focused on this, people are slipping through the cracks all
28:28
Speaker 1: because this was handled incorrectly from the get go, Like
28:31
Speaker 1: it takes like a decade for the mccuins and the
28:37
Speaker 1: niffins to actually get released, for the charges to be
28:40
Speaker 1: dropped because people realized it wasn't a real thing. Like
28:46
Speaker 1: it takes over ten years for them to actually be
28:49
Speaker 1: released and to have those convictions overturned. Just ten years.
28:54
Speaker 1: Ten years of their lives just gone because of this.
28:58
Speaker 1: But it was the most famous sort of case of
29:02
Speaker 1: satanic panic. No no, no, no no. This leads us
29:06
Speaker 1: to one of the longest and most expensive criminal trials
29:12
Speaker 1: like ever in American history, the McMartin preschool trial. Basically, this,
29:22
Speaker 1: this is this is wild. It doesn't make any sense.
29:28
Speaker 1: The McMartin pre school was a preschool run by the
29:32
Speaker 1: McMartin family. It's not that complicated this but it's the
29:36
Speaker 1: easy part. And this is in Manhattan Beach in California,
29:40
Speaker 1: and everything is going fine for this family run business
29:43
Speaker 1: until nineteen eighty three when Judy Johnson, whose three year
29:48
Speaker 1: old son, Matthew, he goes to the McMartin play school
29:52
Speaker 1: preschool pre school. I keep wanting to call it play school,
29:56
Speaker 1: but he goes to the pre school. He's three, and
30:00
Speaker 1: one day Judy goes to the police saying her son
30:04
Speaker 1: has been sodomized by Ray Buckley. So, apart from the
30:11
Speaker 1: fact this is a very serious allegation, let's take a
30:16
Speaker 1: moment to talk about Judy. Judy has been noted as
30:20
Speaker 1: being mentally unwell, mentally unstable, and that she had this
30:25
Speaker 1: weird obsession with Matthew's health, like specifically his bills, Like
30:31
Speaker 1: she was convinced there was something wrong with his bills.
30:34
Speaker 1: And so she accuses one of the teachers, twenty eight
30:37
Speaker 1: year old Ray Buckley, you know, as sodomizing her three
30:41
Speaker 1: year old son. Now, now to stir the pot away bit,
30:47
Speaker 1: Ray also happens to be Judy's estranged husband. Like I
30:51
Speaker 1: don't think she's anything to do with Matthew, but like
30:54
Speaker 1: he used to maybe he was married to Judy at
30:57
Speaker 1: some point, but think there's something wrong with the young
31:02
Speaker 1: fellow's bills, and instead of it being any other issue,
31:05
Speaker 1: clearly the most logical step is sexual abuse. And she
31:10
Speaker 1: just starts like interrogating Matthew and she's going on and
31:15
Speaker 1: on and on and about his experience at nursery, and
31:19
Speaker 1: Matthew doesn't mention anything about ray about being mistreated, and
31:28
Speaker 1: Trudy starts asking him stuff like does he like to
31:31
Speaker 1: play doctors and give people injections. She gets on to
31:35
Speaker 1: the point where she's talking about like thermometers and rectorthermometers
31:38
Speaker 1: and like his way ever, like tested you whatever, And
31:42
Speaker 1: she uses this as a jumping off point to be
31:45
Speaker 1: like abuse. And so she brings Matthew to the hospital
31:53
Speaker 1: and she brings him there for an examination, and the
31:55
Speaker 1: police are coming and it's weird because this isn't the
32:00
Speaker 1: first report they've ever had about this daycare. And before
32:05
Speaker 1: there's even a medical examination happening, the police are like,
32:07
Speaker 1: we've got to get to the bottom of this. We've
32:09
Speaker 1: got to find out who's doing this to your boy,
32:12
Speaker 1: and they just held her leather jump right in there
32:16
Speaker 1: because they believe everything Judy tells them. She's going on
32:20
Speaker 1: that he was tied up and they took photographs of
32:24
Speaker 1: him naked, and she's acting like this was all related
32:29
Speaker 1: to her by Matthew when it wasn't, and they're just like, yeah,
32:34
Speaker 1: Matthew definitely told you this, We need to go in see.
32:37
Speaker 1: Judy is then told to take Matthew to the Children's
32:41
Speaker 1: Institute International, were she's seen by an intern. I feel like,
32:48
Speaker 1: if you're going to question a child about sexual abuse,
32:50
Speaker 1: that maybe an intern is not the way to start
32:53
Speaker 1: the scenario. But yeah, the intern is there and she's
32:58
Speaker 1: listening to Judy and it's like you must be right, ma'am,
33:02
Speaker 1: and just keeps that ball rolling like there's no evidence
33:07
Speaker 1: of any abuse at all happening at this point, and
33:11
Speaker 1: the police are just like, let's get a warrant and
33:14
Speaker 1: start an investigation. I say that they didn't even get
33:19
Speaker 1: a warrant, they just started an investigation, and in September
33:23
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty three, way Buckley gets arrested, but like, they
33:29
Speaker 1: have no evidence, they have nothing on him. He's got
33:32
Speaker 1: no convictions, he's got a clean bill of health and
33:36
Speaker 1: he gets released pretty sharpish. But of course the court
33:41
Speaker 1: of public opinion starts playing into it, and the rumors
33:44
Speaker 1: spread and raise a pretty chill guy like he wears
33:49
Speaker 1: this clothing. He doesn't wear underwear, which I personally think
33:53
Speaker 1: is weird because I think everybody should have their gullies covered.
33:57
Speaker 1: Just keep everything safe and protected, lads. All I'm saying. So,
34:03
Speaker 1: no one really had much to say about Ray before this.
34:06
Speaker 1: They didn't think he was a bad dude by any
34:08
Speaker 1: stretch of the imagination. But after this, the rumor well
34:12
Speaker 1: is just turning and chugging. And that's the thing about
34:20
Speaker 1: the power of suggestion. It's powerful, and one thing leads
34:25
Speaker 1: to another, and next thing, you know, you're accusing a
34:28
Speaker 1: man who has done nothing wrong of being a satanic pediphile.
34:33
Speaker 1: Although I don't know why being Satanic makes it worse,
34:37
Speaker 1: I feel like it doesn't. I feel like if you're
34:39
Speaker 1: a pedophile, that's a bad enough label for anybody to have,
34:45
Speaker 1: you know, I feel like you can't get much worse.
34:48
Speaker 1: A Nazi pediphile fear that's a weird one. Like, still,
34:54
Speaker 1: I don't think it makes it specifically worse, you know,
35:00
Speaker 1: but yeah, there's no evidence at all against Ray in
35:05
Speaker 1: any capacity. And and I don't know how to explain
35:13
Speaker 1: the stupidity of the police force, but what they choose
35:18
Speaker 1: to do instead of, you know, investigate, they go through
35:25
Speaker 1: the school records and send letters to every single parent
35:31
Speaker 1: who ever had a child and the McMahon daycare, like
35:37
Speaker 1: every single one like that is that's about like two
35:40
Speaker 1: hundred families Like that is wild, and every single one
35:44
Speaker 1: of them is getting this letter from the fucking police
35:48
Speaker 1: and things just get from bad to worse because in
35:51
Speaker 1: the letter it says that Ray is suspected of child
35:55
Speaker 1: molestation and they basically describe what he is accused of doing,
36:05
Speaker 1: and to question the children about redoing these things. Now
36:11
Speaker 1: I feel like I shouldn't have to state this, but
36:14
Speaker 1: that is leading information. And when you're asking questions about
36:18
Speaker 1: specific events children, you know you're leading them to this
36:25
Speaker 1: and they're going to make stuff up. They might not
36:28
Speaker 1: even know they're making stuff up, but they are. And
36:32
Speaker 1: so the parents are asking questions about like I had
36:35
Speaker 1: Ray taken photographs of them, how he played games, had
36:38
Speaker 1: he done stuff with them? And like when you phrase
36:44
Speaker 1: things in a creepy way, it becomes creepy. So all
36:49
Speaker 1: of these small children, they three years, four years under,
36:54
Speaker 1: are being questioned on very horrific things, stuff they don't
36:58
Speaker 1: even understand, and anything that could have been like an
37:02
Speaker 1: innocent game that they played can easily be misconstrued. And
37:08
Speaker 1: parents were told, you know, they needed to get the
37:10
Speaker 1: answers and to not accept no for an answer, like
37:15
Speaker 1: don't accept that this might not have happened, like force
37:19
Speaker 1: your children to provide the evidence that we require. Like
37:25
Speaker 1: kids were rewarded forgiving like the answers the parents wanted,
37:29
Speaker 1: they would get treats and rewards, and like it's unethical
37:37
Speaker 1: to stay the least feels also kind of illegal. The
37:41
Speaker 1: police are telling the parents to like document all of
37:44
Speaker 1: these stories, find out as much of everything, just like
37:47
Speaker 1: add it all up. And the parents of children who
37:52
Speaker 1: hadn't said anything were told that their children had been
37:56
Speaker 1: named by other children as being abused by Ray and
38:03
Speaker 1: other adults in satanic fashion at the daycare. And there
38:09
Speaker 1: was so much focus in getting this information out of
38:11
Speaker 1: the children. That they were doing all of these like
38:14
Speaker 1: repressed memory techniques, like they were giving children trauma, like
38:19
Speaker 1: they were forcing them to do this. They would going
38:22
Speaker 1: to these therapy sessions. They would use special medications on
38:26
Speaker 1: them and ask them questions and if the children denied
38:31
Speaker 1: any abuse, if they said things you know that they
38:34
Speaker 1: didn't want to hear, like they were told they weren't
38:37
Speaker 1: being cooperative as their friends, they weren't helping out, they
38:40
Speaker 1: weren't being good. Like in children, they want attention, they
38:46
Speaker 1: want acknowledgement, and they want to know they're doing good.
38:50
Speaker 1: And so they'll just start saying things that the adults
38:53
Speaker 1: want to hear because their children talking to adults, and
39:01
Speaker 1: they bring in this unlicensed therapist. It just snowballs lads
39:09
Speaker 1: like this, like she's the one who invents the anatomically
39:13
Speaker 1: correct doll, and she's like, show us on the doll
39:16
Speaker 1: where he touched you. We all know the meme. We've
39:18
Speaker 1: all been there. No, we haven't all been there. Jesus God, No,
39:22
Speaker 1: if you have, I'm sorry. I feel like this isn't
39:25
Speaker 1: the best episode to step into for the first timeh No,
39:30
Speaker 1: I really hope you're doing well. If that's the case.
39:34
Speaker 1: So it gets to the point that by the spring
39:38
Speaker 1: of nineteen eighty four, so like from September all the
39:41
Speaker 1: way to spring, right three hundred and sixty children is
39:46
Speaker 1: announced have been you know, abused, assaulted at the McMartin
39:51
Speaker 1: pre school. What's interesting though, is that, well, this is happening.
39:57
Speaker 1: There's a political race going on. It's the reelection of
40:02
Speaker 1: the district attorney. And the current district Attorney, Robert Philosopian,
40:08
Speaker 1: he is not doing well. He's behind in the polls
40:11
Speaker 1: and he really needs to make his mark. He wants
40:15
Speaker 1: to get reelected, and so he sees them at Martin
40:20
Speaker 1: Case and he thinks, yes, absolutely one percent, and regardless
40:26
Speaker 1: of the very little evidence towards it, he goes, fuck
40:29
Speaker 1: this for Game of Soldiers and launches his own independent investigation. So, uh,
40:39
Speaker 1: issue is the assistant DA. They had link with the
40:44
Speaker 1: children's institute and so and it was the assistant DA
40:51
Speaker 1: who was suggesting strongly that the children goes specifically to
40:55
Speaker 1: the children's institute. So this guy wants to get reelected.
41:02
Speaker 1: There's this moral panic happening, and he just fuels the
41:06
Speaker 1: fucking fire. So like this trial happens, This innocent man
41:11
Speaker 1: goes on trial and these children are forced to invent
41:16
Speaker 1: all this trauma, all because the DA wanted to get
41:20
Speaker 1: reelected and he needed attention. And like it starts off
41:25
Speaker 1: with like general abuse and then again evolves into like
41:29
Speaker 1: evil satanic devil worshiping stuff like cults and rituals, and
41:38
Speaker 1: each story from each child just gets weirder and peculiar
41:42
Speaker 1: and bizarre. Like some kids are saying that they saw
41:46
Speaker 1: witches fly, that they were kidnapped in air balloons, and
41:51
Speaker 1: they were taken in secret tunnels underneath the preschool for
41:55
Speaker 1: rituals and other locations. Like this has taken so serious
42:01
Speaker 1: that the task Force tries to find these non existent tunnels.
42:06
Speaker 1: Gave it away. There there are no tunnels. They find none.
42:10
Speaker 1: And you've got Judy just throwing turpentine like right onto
42:14
Speaker 1: this fire, like ninety eight percent proof vodka, just like
42:19
Speaker 1: one after the other. She's saying that Matthew was forced
42:24
Speaker 1: to ride a horse naked, and that he had seen
42:29
Speaker 1: a live baby beheaded, and that there were ritual tortures,
42:35
Speaker 1: and that the weak kid had seen all of it.
42:40
Speaker 1: And the issue is people were believing this. They believed
42:45
Speaker 1: everything Judy was saying, and like the kids are just
42:51
Speaker 1: saying weird shit. You've got women in rooms, you've got
42:56
Speaker 1: children being flushed down toilets. Joel Animal sacrifices, you know,
43:02
Speaker 1: the biz. But like the parents at the time, I
43:06
Speaker 1: don't think they were aware that they were asking leading questions.
43:10
Speaker 1: Like now we know now we have lived in worlds
43:14
Speaker 1: of true crime dramas and podcasts and everything else and
43:18
Speaker 1: TV shows that we are so aware of like terminology
43:24
Speaker 1: and the mannerisms, tone and how we portray ourselves to
43:30
Speaker 1: other people. So like we're aware of like leading questions
43:34
Speaker 1: at the very least, and these children are being led.
43:40
Speaker 1: And then you also have to consider that again, these
43:43
Speaker 1: are the anti boomer parents, Like these generations, the ones
43:47
Speaker 1: who are trying to do like a little bit better
43:49
Speaker 1: but still end up having latchkey kids. And it gets
43:52
Speaker 1: to the point where they're like not doing well because
43:58
Speaker 1: they don't want to not believe their children because fucking patriarchy, man,
44:05
Speaker 1: it's the patriarchy. So you're at a point where women
44:08
Speaker 1: are working, they're outside the home, and they're getting jobs,
44:12
Speaker 1: and in order to get those jobs, the children have
44:14
Speaker 1: to go into daycare, a place where they're supposed to
44:17
Speaker 1: be safe because you their mother and are home they're
44:21
Speaker 1: taking care of them. And so what happens then is women,
44:28
Speaker 1: mothers especially start to feel guilty that they've sent their
44:34
Speaker 1: children away and that they weren't home to look after them,
44:37
Speaker 1: and you have this guilt that builds up. Then it
44:41
Speaker 1: sort of bubbles alongside sort of the outrage of the
44:46
Speaker 1: moral panic, like these kids are telling parents what they
44:50
Speaker 1: want to hear. At this point, this leads to seven
44:53
Speaker 1: people being arrested in the McMartin case, and they are
44:57
Speaker 1: charged with three hundred and twenty one counts of child
45:00
Speaker 1: abuse involving forty eight children. So all of the people arrested,
45:06
Speaker 1: Like you've got Ray Buckley, his sister Peggy, his grandmother,
45:11
Speaker 1: and his mom. So like other workers at the preschool
45:16
Speaker 1: as well, they were arrested and there were twenty months
45:20
Speaker 1: of preliminary hearings and during this you've got children testifying
45:25
Speaker 1: and their stories are getting like more imaginative and weird
45:29
Speaker 1: and wacky on the stand. Like the lawyers themselves, they're
45:35
Speaker 1: just not at it because they're being bombarded with all
45:39
Speaker 1: this weird information and they're just not doing super well
45:45
Speaker 1: with that because like trying to get a story out
45:47
Speaker 1: of a child, it's like trying to get a story
45:50
Speaker 1: out of someone with ADHD. You'll get the story if
45:53
Speaker 1: you keep them on track, but they will go round
45:57
Speaker 1: in a Jeremy barme and it will be very weird
45:59
Speaker 1: and why okay, But you'll get to the story in
46:02
Speaker 1: the end. They just won't tell it in any sort
46:04
Speaker 1: of linear sense. The case doesn't even make it to
46:09
Speaker 1: trial until nineteen eighty seven. Like during this time, there
46:15
Speaker 1: have been forty part time detectives, one full time detective,
46:23
Speaker 1: twenty part time social workers, twenty two task force officers,
46:29
Speaker 1: two full time social workers, and a partridge in a
46:34
Speaker 1: pear tree all assigned to this case. All of these people,
46:38
Speaker 1: over all of these years, looking for, like the genius
46:41
Speaker 1: Chinese script, this breadcrumb of evidence, and again find zilch.
46:48
Speaker 1: There was not one single solitary like piece of evidence
46:54
Speaker 1: regarding abuse by anyone who was on trial, but that
47:01
Speaker 1: didn't matter because the trial was going ahead anyway. Like
47:05
Speaker 1: in the end, by the time the actual trial gets
47:08
Speaker 1: to the actual trial stage, only eleven children end up testifying.
47:17
Speaker 1: Like it all evolves on those weird interviews by the
47:21
Speaker 1: Children's Institute, it was. It did not end well. It
47:29
Speaker 1: did not end well. The DA's office is embarrassed, there
47:34
Speaker 1: is no convictions, and Ray Buckley is actually cleared of
47:40
Speaker 1: fifty two out of sixty five counts, and he ends
47:44
Speaker 1: up freedom bail, like at this point he'd been in
47:48
Speaker 1: jail for five years. Everyone else had been acquitted at
47:51
Speaker 1: this point, but like he was still there, and he
47:55
Speaker 1: gets pulled in for a second trial, which he gets
47:59
Speaker 1: me tried on six of the thirteen counts that he
48:02
Speaker 1: was like acquitted for, and this second trial ends up
48:07
Speaker 1: with a hung jury because they can't agree because some
48:10
Speaker 1: people are reasonable. The case, I'm sure you'll be surprised,
48:18
Speaker 1: is eventually closed with all the charges against him dismissed.
48:23
Speaker 1: And this is like the nineties at this point, Well,
48:30
Speaker 1: howd about this? The majority of people who were like
48:35
Speaker 1: around like part of the satag panic, most of them
48:40
Speaker 1: are dead at this point, like because older generations really
48:43
Speaker 1: like pushing it in, like there's not a huge amount there.
48:48
Speaker 1: And things kind of get worse for Judy Johnson because
48:52
Speaker 1: Judy is diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia in nineteen eighty four
49:02
Speaker 1: because like she gets questioned in like the preliminary hearings
49:07
Speaker 1: and she starts acting up. She is just like not
49:11
Speaker 1: coping well, and people are clear that something is a
49:15
Speaker 1: miss and that's where she gets diagnosed and they realize
49:21
Speaker 1: she has a very serial mental illness. She's get schizophrenia,
49:26
Speaker 1: and this whole case is based on her paranoid delusions.
49:33
Speaker 1: Somebody went to jail for this, and a few other
49:36
Speaker 1: things fed into the satanic panic as well. You had
49:40
Speaker 1: rock music all because some we killer had an ac
49:47
Speaker 1: DC shirt on, and then people were like playing records
49:51
Speaker 1: LPs backwards, trying to find secret messages, and like if
49:55
Speaker 1: you're doing that, like you're gonna hear what you want
49:58
Speaker 1: to hear. I don't care because it's all jibberish. It
50:01
Speaker 1: means nothing. There's a scene in that seventies show where
50:07
Speaker 1: they're playing records back and like, don't you hear it?
50:10
Speaker 1: It's the satanic evil stuff, and fast as they're going
50:15
Speaker 1: in my language, this means I want to sex your monkey,
50:18
Speaker 1: which fairly racist, let's go there. But also it's like, yeah,
50:23
Speaker 1: you hear what you want to hear, like it doesn't
50:25
Speaker 1: mean anything. And so you've got like all of these
50:33
Speaker 1: people who are like into rock and they're blaming it for,
50:35
Speaker 1: you know, causing stuff, as if people just aren't shitty anyway.
50:41
Speaker 1: And you've got games like Dungeons and Dragons they're like,
50:47
Speaker 1: clearly it's evil. It has dungeons and dragons, the two
50:50
Speaker 1: main foes of Christianity, math and imagination, and right, like, hello,
50:59
Speaker 1: people ever get through life? Oh yeah, yeah. It probably
51:03
Speaker 1: doesn't help that the Knights Dock or Richard Ramirez was
51:06
Speaker 1: like a big acy DC fan. I mean, you can't
51:11
Speaker 1: choose your fans sometimes, but also maybe not horrific serial
51:15
Speaker 1: rapist and murderer. Just just disown them, that's fine. Like
51:20
Speaker 1: people were freaking about the Wiiji board again, even though
51:24
Speaker 1: as I've said before, it's a parlor game, like people
51:28
Speaker 1: are seeing stuff everywhere. Like at one point they're blaming
51:33
Speaker 1: Scooby Doo, like they think Scooby Doo is too sort
51:36
Speaker 1: of a cult, even though there's not actually any ghosts
51:41
Speaker 1: in it anywhere. It's always old man smothers, the creepy janitor, like,
51:45
Speaker 1: it's always that who would have got away with it
51:48
Speaker 1: too if it weren't few meddling kids and the Satanic planic.
51:56
Speaker 1: It doesn't just go away, It just fades away slowly
52:01
Speaker 1: over time until it finally disappears. But yeah, thus sends
52:08
Speaker 1: our story about the Satanic panic, which sometimes I feel
52:12
Speaker 1: is gonna have a resurgence because well, the weird ship
52:15
Speaker 1: people are doing in history, they say it doesn't repeat it.
52:20
Speaker 1: It does just like worse than before apparently. But anyway,
52:26
Speaker 1: recommendation time, I guess so for listening because we're getting
52:31
Speaker 1: close to April. Actually is you need to listen to
52:33
Speaker 1: God's Favorites podcast. Melissa is Amazing. You love our like
52:39
Speaker 1: if you like Titanic or Charles light Tooler and other
52:43
Speaker 1: cool people, it's the podcast for you. So much. On
52:46
Speaker 1: Charles light Tooler, which is so good, so good. For reading,
52:54
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with Wild Irish Women by Marion Broderic.
52:59
Speaker 1: And for watching. You know what I've gotten into again.
53:03
Speaker 1: I gets the Raisin. I have been watching so many
53:06
Speaker 1: episodes of Agatha Raisin. It's a cozy murder mystery. She's
53:10
Speaker 1: in the Courtswolds, she is fancy bags. It's good fun.
53:14
Speaker 1: It's good fun for everybody. Now, with that, I'm going
53:17
Speaker 1: to bid you good night. Adios. Au Revoirs of Where
53:22
Speaker 1: Is Emma Friends, Bye bye