Latest / Sports Card Clubhouse / A Dive Into The Cards We Buy!! Surface Issues Episode 36

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A Dive Into The Cards We Buy!! Surface Issues Episode 36 · Sports Card Clubhouse

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In our massive country, there are card collectors throughout
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the land participating in the hobby.
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There's Mike of Junk Wax Hero and Greg of Midlife Cards, and
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while distance may separate them, here is where they come
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together to talk cards. Hey buddy, wait a second.
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You're not Mike. You have a full head of hair.
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You're handsome. You're intelligent, David Chase
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of Sports Cards Live and of the Midlife Card Chase.
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How are you my friend? Hello everybody, Welcome.
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Happy. Have a happy Sunday.
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I don't want, I don't want people to get too nervous that
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that I've come in and taken over.
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Now that you have become part of the number one show on the
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sports card clubhouse, I just figured we'd get rid of Mike and
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permanently replace him with you.
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I think that the fans are going to be very happy about that,
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Greg, I think. That, in all seriousness, Mike
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has got something going on today.
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And so I went to the bullpen and when you look out of the bullpen
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and you've got Mariano Rivera, there's no need to look for
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someone else, right? I mean, so in you come again,
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David and myself every other Saturday here on the Sports Card
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Clubhouse, you can check out our show, the Midlife Card Chase.
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Again, it's every other Saturday, but here we are on a
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Tuesday morning to talk about some cards together and you have
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some big shoes to fill. I mean Mike's got like 15,000
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more Subs than you do, but I think that you are the man for
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the job today. Thank you I I've been
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researching circus peanuts and I am ready to go today.
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Don't. You worry.
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That's interesting because I brought my snack to have with my
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buddy here. The double stuff, the double
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stuff. The only option of Oreos is the
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double stuff and the golden are quite delicious, so I brought
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some of these to snack on while we have our conversation.
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Do you have a peanut buttercup ready to stick in the middle?
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I didn't do that today. I'm just going with just the
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the, the golden double stuff, the double stuff Oreo, Did I
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mention that they're double stuff?
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You did. You're going with the healthy
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version, which I appreciate. So what are we going to talk
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about? What a pro.
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Look at you. All right, So what should we
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talk with? What are we talking about?
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We're talking about I appeal. No one's ever talked about that
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before, right? Now, Joe Perot, he said.
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He's so your associate over at Sports Cars Live.
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He's not an associate, he's a friend.
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No friend and associate, he, he said.
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He's so tired of this topic, but there's a twist to the topic
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that we're going to be talking about today.
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And the twist, I think is worthy of a discussion and we can start
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right there. I mean, we could just dive right
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into this. But when somebody says a card
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has a high, I appeal to you. What is it?
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What does that mean to you, David?
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I think that I have very different.
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I appeal standards as others and get you stuff in your face.
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I have definitely different. I appeal standards.
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For me, I cannot have high eye appeal without it being
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centered. I don't care if it looks like it
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was packed, pulled, I don't care if it looks like the corners.
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You could cut a stake with it if it's not centered.
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To me, my version of eye appeal, it has to be very close to
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perfectly centered and my centering, the care that I have
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for centering has become more and more aggressive in it,
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needing to be better throughout the years that I've been
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collecting. Right now, I need it to be
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pretty perfect for me to give it the time of day, and when it's
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off a little bit, it bugs me. And I've gotten rid of a lot of
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cards that didn't have that centering.
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So that's number one for me is I need it to be centered.
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How about you? I got.
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I got to dive in closer into that because there are so many
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semantics within this. So what is your threshold like?
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I mean, from A1 to A10 on centering.
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Like my wife, thankfully, her threshold apparently was a 2
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1/2. She was, she was, that was what
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she was willing to go down to. But is 5545, is that centered to
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you? Is that buyable to you?
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Does it depend on the card? If 4555 for a Jim Brown rookie
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card is OK, but it's not OK for you know, a 58 tops Mickey
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Mantle. Like when you say it has to be
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centered, define that. Cause I've seen to I've had
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times where friends and man, you see this card I got it's just so
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well centered. I'm like that card is not even
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close to centered. What are you talking about?
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So what's centered to you? It's card dependent and part of
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what I love about I appeal for me is that the longer you're
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looking for a specific kind of card, the more you're going to
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know of what makes it as good eye appeal.
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And you know, for example, a 57 Topps Mickey Mantle card is for
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some reason such a hard card to find centered.
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And for that card, you know, maybe it's OK to find that 5545
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OK, but and or like a Roberto Clemente rookie, that's another
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card that is just obnoxiously hard to find centered.
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But if you're talking about a some cards that are still hard,
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but you can't find them like a Sandy Koufax rookie 55 same
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year, for some reason, you can find more of those centered than
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the Clemente or a random card that's a 59 tops card.
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Then I need it to be perfectly centered.
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I need it to be like perfect perfect because there's a lot of
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them out there and you can be picky.
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Unlike a card, my short print leaf cards that I love, right,
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the Larry Dobie that I have, it's very nicely centered, but
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it's not perfect. I can handle that card not being
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perfectly centered. So it it is card dependent.
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OK, so that that helps me now if you if you do buy a card and you
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say, I think the centering is good enough for me, I think that
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I can handle this centering for this card.
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And then you get home and and you you're looking at it and
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you're like, I don't know, like it's starting to kind of bug me.
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Do you? Is that something where you just
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keep the card? Do you just say that's it?
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If I'm even thinking about it, I sell it.
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Like, what's your move when you try to convince yourself it's
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the right card and you're not sure what's that process look
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like? And we're just talking about
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centering right now, but there's many different layers that we're
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going to talk about for this for I appeal.
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But if that does happen to me, I know Mike Petty and I, he's the
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one who really has brought this up.
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And it cracks me up where he's bought a card at a show and it's
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centered and then he brings it home.
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And it's not, I don't know if it's the lighting or you're just
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excited at the time, but that totally happens.
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It happens to me online sometimes too.
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And it depends on the card. I've I usually if this was a
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couple of years ago I would have kept that card until I found a
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better one and then let it go. But now that I'm more mature, I
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feel like it's OK for me to let the cards go because I will
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eventually find it. I don't need it to be the
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placeholder because if I look at that card every single time, and
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let's not even just talk about centering, but just I appeal in
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general. If something about that card
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bugs me, I don't want to look at the card.
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And then that's the first thing I go to, right?
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I'm eccentric. I see that card and I see the
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flaw and it's the first thing that I see.
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And I want to love the card and love the attributes of the card
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and not only look at the flaw and if the flaw overtakes it, it
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goes and I don't have to have a new one to replace it.
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It's just part of the journey of me to find that card in a better
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situation. How about you?
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And if you decided you did want to sell that card, several of
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your cards or your whole collection, I would recommend
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reaching out to Chris Sewell, sewellsportscards@gmail.com.
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You know, Chris collector, investor, dealer.com collector,
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investor, dealer, in that order. Chris is a great guy.
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Look at he's all over the place on the screen there.
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He's it's like he's in three places at once as he's sorting
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cards and listing cards and working to get your deal.
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So I can tell you this, Chris is a great guy.
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Even though a lot of the times on their podcast, they tend to
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talk about drunk wax Mike a little bit more.
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No worries. I am leveling the playing field
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this week by getting Mike off the screen all together smart so
9:37
that you can only talk about me this week, Chris.
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So Chris is truly a great guy. Have you met Chris Sewell?
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No, no, Hopefully I'll meet him at the National, I think.
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Yeah, you'll have. To meet him, you have obviously
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met the Texas snowman though. I love the Texas snowman.
9:53
He's been on sport on Sports Cards Live and met him in
9:57
Strongsville too. So again
10:00
chrissewellsewellsportscards@gmail.com if you are looking to sell,
10:05
consider Chris again a great guy, a sponsor of our channel.
10:10
You can also find information about him on our website, the
10:14
Sports Card Clubhouse under Partners now.
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Yeah. I mean, I think that there was a
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time where I was more apprehensive to let go of a card
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that I am now. I mean, if there's a card that
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I'm trying to convince myself, no, you actually like it.
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I don't actually like it. It it's like, you know, it.
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It's like the the, the girlfriend, you know, in high
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school where you're like, I think I like her.
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You don't like her, you don't like her.
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Set her free. Let her go like a baby bird just
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out of the nest. Just shove her out of the nest,
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David. Wait, let's talk about that
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though, right? So you're saying that you can
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now do that, but your Cy Young card that you just got rid of in
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Strongsville for the upgrade, you liked your other version but
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you always knew you wanted a different 1.
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You did not let that card go until you had the new one in
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hand, right? That was a really nice PSA 1.5
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Cy Young portrait that I bought at the National.
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I mean, what, 10 months ago, nine months ago it was.
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It was a really nice example, but I do think that I always
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considered that to be a little bit of a placeholder card and
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with the hopes of finding a nicer one.
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I, I, I don't, I don't really believe in, in buying a card
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that you know you're going to sell.
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I, I only want to buy cards that if I didn't sell and if it was
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part of the permanent collection, it's good enough to
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be a part of the permanent collection.
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It's like the people who say I'm going to buy this house, I'll
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live in it for a couple of years and then I'll get something that
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I actually like. Like I would say, why are you
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doing that? All you're doing is losing a
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chunk in closing costs on both ends.
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And I don't know if that's the move.
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Like if you can't see yourself in that house for seven years or
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more, at least 5, like why are you even buying it And the card?
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It has to be the the threshold for me is if I never upgraded
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it, would it be OK? Now that doesn't mean I'm not, I
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don't want to maybe upgrade it, but if I didn't upgrade it, is
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it a good enough copy? It has to.
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The answer has to be yes. OK, so.
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Centering. Centering, you said.
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Centering how? Are you?
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I want to hear though, do you think the same way about
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centering? Is centering not as big of a
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deal for you? Is registered?
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What's your #1 criteria for? I appeal for you.
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OK. So we'll go straight to that.
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So your number one is centering. By far.
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OK, so, so when somebody says to, to somebody, I, I appeal
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because again, you know it, it's all in the eye of the beholder.
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It's, it's your eye appeal. And my eye appeal might not be
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the same. And that's one of the reasons
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that some of these eye appeal stickers to a certain extent,
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you're kind of like, well, for your eye appeal, this is a good
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example, but but maybe somebody else it's different.
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So it, it is kind of a generic description of, you know, it's
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a, it looks better than the number is for it.
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And I'm not answering the question.
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So let me answer the question and.
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Then we're going back to that. Yeah, OK.
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I would have, I would think that I would say it's centering, but
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it's not centering because I've seen a lot of really well
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centered cards with great color. And I go, oh, I see it at
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auction or I see it in a case and I go, oh, let me look at
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that. And I get it closer and it's out
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of focus. I can't handle it.
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I cannot handle a card that has see, it's, it's like, what's the
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kiss of death? Like what's the, I think the the
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term I was using when we kind of brought this topic up the other
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day was I called it the death penalty.
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Like what's the death penalty for a card where I just can't, I
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can't buy everything else. If you had a card that was
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perfect corners perfect, centering, perfect, color
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perfect, everything was perfect, but it was heavily out of focus
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and heavily out of registration. I don't want the card.
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Is there exceptions to that rule?
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I can't think of an exception. I'm OK.
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Let's think of your number one goal card like is the 52 mantle
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your number one goal card of like if money was no object?
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What's your number one goal card if money was no object?
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Wow, that's another. Honestly, you would think I
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would have that Just bang, Yeah. No, OK, I, I, I have to clarify.
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I have to clarify. We're all over the place right
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now. And and then which I think is
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fantastic. This is just organic, like we
15:37
just had a very broad you, you wanted this to be more of a, a
15:43
precise conversation. But this the the branches of
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this conversation have so many branches that have branches that
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have branches. We'll go back to it, yeah.
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If I so you're basically saying if I could have any card, it's
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changed a little bit. I think this is going to
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surprise a lot of people. Blackbeard.
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I have that though. Oh yeah.
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Are we talking about cards I don't have?
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Yes, cards you don't have. What's like the ultimate goal
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card? OK, so here's the thing.
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There are some cards that I want where any copy would do, but
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then there are some cards where the actually what I want is.
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A is a pretty decent copy of this.
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So you're basically saying I have.
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Like the T2 OS, the Wagner, right?
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Like I mean a card that's just like out of reach, that is your
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number one card that you would love to have someday that you
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most likely won't have. What is it?
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Out of reach. Nothing's out of reach, David.
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You don't think the Wagner's out of reach for both of us?
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You never know. If you say never, then it's
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never but anything you've. Been picking out with Mike
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Petty. That's a Mike Petty.
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No, no. Anything could happen.
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You don't know what the future holds.
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I wouldn't. I, I don't.
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Will I Do I think I'll ever have a Wagner?
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Of course not. But you know what the the price
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of some of those Wagners that sold in the last three or four
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months. It's not impossible.
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The T2 O 6 Wagner you're talking about, but it's not impossible.
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But I said a million. Dollars, you never know dude.
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You never know. If I had put $10,000 into NVIDIA
17:35
10 years ago, then I would have one and and I could have done
17:39
that, but I didn't. So I don't like that line of
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thinking that card no card is off the table.
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All right. What's the stretch?
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I just say it's a stretch. Is that OK to use that term?
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Cracker Jack, Joe Jackson, OK. The Cracker Jack Joe Jackson.
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So if you had a Cracker Jack Joe Jackson that was not in focus,
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would that could that be part of your collection?
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Let me ask you a question. Answer 1st and then I'll.
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Answer your question. I will not.
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You can't. Answer my question.
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I'm going to. I'm going to ask you a question
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in response. First, would you rather?
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Be annoying people that do that, would you?
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Rather be married to the wrong woman who's nasty or be single.
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Those are the two options. I'd rather be single, obviously.
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Right, so the right answer was I don't have to worry about that
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because my wife Eve is amazing and I'll never have to be single
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again. That was the right answer.
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OK, but since you gave the wrong answer, the second answer that
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you could have given was I'd rather be single.
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So would I rather have a just awful, and I mean awful out of
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focus Copy that. Every time I look at it, it's
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hard to enjoy or not have one. I think I'd rather not have one.
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I'd rather be single. Wow, interesting.
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I'm not saying it's a horrible card, but.
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If everything wasn't. True for except for the except
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it looked like it was in 3D right?
19:17
It was like 2 prints on top of each other, which I don't even
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think Cracker Jacks have that. But let's say it just was way
19:22
out of focus. But everything else was nice
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about the card. Could that be part of your
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collection? Before I answer that.
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Oh my God. Before I answer that, hold on.
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You know, I have no patience, Craig.
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Give me one of those. And we need to come up with some
19:43
kind of system where we could pass those off to each other.
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Greg quietly puts in dumb stuffed Oreo in his mouth.
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I I don't want the wrong copy of a card.
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There are a lot of cards that I'd like to have and I could
20:03
have acquired the wrong copy and I chose to wait.
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OK, so I'll say something that's a little different than what you
20:14
said. My centering is everything to
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me, as weird as that sounds. And my number one card that's
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ahead of the 52 mantle for me is the 48 leaf short print Satchel
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Paige card and. So if you saw that card, if it
20:32
will. Off centered I would I would
20:34
love to have it even if it was off centered by even if it was
20:38
like an OC card. What if it was perfectly
20:41
centered? OK, it's perfectly centered
20:43
card, but somebody had drawn a beard on it with devil horns.
20:53
That card, I would take it in any condition and I'll tell you
20:58
that there's, and this is a little bit like that Joe Jackson
21:01
card. There's just not many of them on
21:02
the planet. OK, so maybe it's a placeholder
21:06
card, which I know you're saying is a weird thing to do, but I
21:11
would love, I will own that card someday.
21:15
It's just a card that is it really, I love leaf so much and
21:20
it is the pinnacle of leaf cards.
21:23
So it really just, I would have it if there was a beard and
21:27
double horns. And I would think that it's
21:29
actually a very funny copy. And it would probably be a copy
21:32
that would represent. I mean, you could actually make
21:35
that card where it could be so many episodes of discussions
21:40
about that card. If it really did look like that,
21:42
it'd be kind of cool to have the only one that was like such a
21:45
mess that looked like that. So I'm just saying, as much as
21:50
we care about, I appeal to bring it back to that.
21:53
Yeah, there's exceptions to the rules, right?
21:56
What is the? Thing what is the thing that
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people don't care of what are what is something that a lot of
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people do care a lot about when they say I appeal, it has to
22:06
have blank and you think that's the most overrated thing with I
22:11
appeal because you're saying the most important thing is
22:14
centering. I'm saying I can't handle a card
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that's heavily out of registration.
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I can't. So, so I before I even get to
22:23
that point, I want to say one quick thing about how I appeal
22:26
is so different for everybody else and nobody's right, OK,
22:29
where I'm part of this website, I Appeal Inc.
22:33
To you're a part of that. Oh, I'm a distinguished council
22:36
member, Greg. Are you serious?
22:38
Yeah. Are you serious?
22:40
Yeah, of course I've been. I've been from like day one, a
22:42
council member from them, Greg. Interesting.
22:46
All right, go ahead, carry on. The junk wax is one too.
22:48
And Jeremy. I've heard.
22:49
Jeremy too. I've heard.
22:50
Yeah. You know what?
22:52
If you want to, you can fill out.
22:53
I'm good. I'm good, I'm good, I'm good.
22:56
All right, so, but the thing about that website that's
22:59
interesting, I'm like one of the easiest graders on there, OK?
23:02
People love it when I grade their card 'cause I am not just
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some of these people take their job way too seriously and they
23:08
nitpick the hell out of those cards.
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And it bugs me because a card that looks great, they don't
23:13
have to tear it apart because they're looking at it for 17
23:16
minutes to try to find the flaw. That's not what I appeal is to
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me, OK, And what I appeal is to me and I differ, OK.
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There are cards that but out of when I've posted a card and you
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can't see who the person is who posted it, Jeremy Lee gave me
23:32
the lowest rating of anybody on that card.
23:37
One of them is like my Willie Mays.
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I have a 51 Bowman Willie Mays card and and it's because he
23:44
cares so much about registration.
23:47
Fish eyes. That's it.
23:48
That's my card. And if you were to see it a
23:51
little closer, there's a fish eye next to his.
23:53
Card. It that is very impressive how
23:56
you pulled that out. It has a fish eye next to his
24:01
hat. The corners are very worn, but
24:04
it is centered right. So to me, I like this card.
24:09
It does a high eye appeal. But man, it made me feel kind of
24:12
bad when I put it on to the eye appeal website because they tore
24:15
it apart. And I think Jeremy even gave it
24:17
like AC, like a, like a very low grade.
24:22
And to me it was a little surprising and shocking.
24:24
But that really shows that I appeal is different for
24:27
everybody. And you have to really
24:29
understand what is more important than others.
24:31
I am somebody who does not care as much about the back of cards
24:35
as others, right? I think that it's kind of weird
24:39
where when I look at a card, I am looking at the front for 90%
24:44
of the time. There's another one of mine and
24:46
then I look at the back just to see is that the reason for the
24:49
lower grade? OK, I love this card, this 49
24:53
Bowman satchel page card. The front of it looks like A7,
24:58
right? And the back of it has a that is
25:02
a glue stain that you cannot miss it, right?
25:07
But at the same time it is a glue stain.
25:11
It is a terrible glue stain. And obviously in a perfect
25:14
world, I would love for me not to see the stain on the back or
25:18
the paper loss in the back. That's the ultimate goal to have
25:21
a card that you cannot figure out why it's a one right.
25:25
But for you, for me to be able to afford a card, I, I, there's
25:30
so many cards that I want, I need them to be in lower grades.
25:33
I can't afford high graded cards, but I can't afford
25:37
sometimes a nice looking version of a lower grade card.
25:41
So I have to give some characteristics up, right?
25:45
Does that mean that it might have a glue stain on the back?
25:48
Or does it mean that there might be a number written on the back
25:53
that somebody writes in there or a Mookie pinhole?
25:56
Sometimes those kind of things happen.
25:58
Here's a here's another example where this is actually kind of
26:01
funny When I ended up getting this.
26:03
It's we're showing right now a 52 Bowman mantle.
26:06
The front of it is spectacular and there is a stamp on the
26:10
back. This shows I didn't have enough
26:12
research on this card when I even bought this card years ago.
26:15
I didn't even know that that TW wasn't part of the card as as
26:20
dumb as that makes me sound. But then I realized that it was
26:24
a child's, most likely a a child's stamp to let them know
26:27
that that is that person. I thought you bought it from Tom
26:30
Watson. There's a, it probably was Tom
26:33
Watson, little Tommy Watson, and he loved this card enough to
26:37
have it. And I learned to appreciate it.
26:39
And you know what? For me to try to find a card
26:41
that looks like that on the front that doesn't have that TWI
26:44
mean that card's going to be 5 times the amount of money for
26:49
that card, literally five times the amount of money.
26:53
So you know what? I have to be able to give up
26:55
some items. Now some people would say that's
26:57
not I appeal because they consider the back to be part of
27:00
I appeal. What what's your thought on the
27:02
back versus the front? For me, the back matters more
27:09
than it does for a lot of you guys.
27:12
A lot of the I appeal guys almost want the back to be beat
27:17
up because then they can get a really nice front for a cheap
27:22
price because the back brings it down so much.
27:25
So I I I care about the back more.
27:32
I care about the. Baby got back.
27:35
Why? Why do you care about the back
27:37
so much? What's?
27:37
The reason back I I don't, I don't know, I can't.
27:46
Why do I care what the back is all about?
27:49
How? Often do you read the back of a
27:51
card? Most times that I look at my
27:56
cards, I look at the front for 80% of the time and the back for
28:00
20%. And I think that's how most
28:03
people are. When Jeremy does a Fanatics live
28:06
and he studies a card and he dissects it.
28:08
He's looking at the front. Then he's like, let's just see
28:11
the back and he's really looking at the back to see if that
28:13
prevent that made the grade lower.
28:15
So because you're looking at it 80% of the time, what makes it
28:20
important to you to have that back looking so nice?
28:27
I, I mean, I mean the back of the card, it, it matters, it's,
28:32
it's part of the card, it's part of the story, it's part of the
28:37
production. If the back didn't matter,
28:39
they'd all be blank backs. But the back isn't blank.
28:43
The back has something on it for a reason.
28:47
And I, I also think this might sound, this is probably going to
28:52
sound crazy. And I, we're, we're way off
28:55
course now. I'm OK with that.
28:56
But I, I, I like not really knowing the story of a card.
29:03
I like wondering what is the card story?
29:06
Who is TW that adds to it when a card is like this one?
29:15
I know the story of that card. That card was glued into some
29:20
sort of album or scrapbook and then the glue dried and it, it
29:25
came loose and out it came. And that's one of the reasons
29:28
that the front looks so good. I, I, I feel like it's too big
29:32
of a clue. Maybe I I I like not knowing
29:37
what's going on, but. So you wouldn't want to know if
29:40
you had a grail card disfigured. This card hold on.
29:42
They disfigured the card. Somebody, somebody applied,
29:49
somebody applied a substance to this card.
29:52
Like that's so like not what that's so out of bounds.
29:57
Like you don't put chemicals on cards, you don't put stickers on
30:02
cards. Now I, I love Mookie's whole
30:07
thing about if a card has a pinhole, that means that card
30:10
was prized and they wanted it displayed that I, I was always
30:15
very, very anti pinhole. Pinhole was almost the least
30:21
acceptable thing. But then when he helped me to
30:27
frame it in that way, it has changed my opinion on pinhole
30:32
cards. That said, I have 0 cards with
30:36
pin holes. Other than the ones right there
30:38
that were given to me from Mookie, I've never bought a card
30:43
with a pinhole ever. Would you?
30:44
Would you? I'm more willing now than I
30:50
would have been, but there are a lot of other things I would
30:54
rather be wrong before the pinhole be wrong.
31:00
So I just want to mention, when you mentioned chemicals and
31:03
things like that, I think a pinhole and having back damage,
31:06
the way that those cards had back damage that you showed are
31:09
very similar, right? Because it's not based on
31:12
somebody altering the card to alter it into a state to make it
31:18
look better. It was altering it for the state
31:21
of loving the card, right? You put it into a book, it it
31:27
brings the story that you hate. You hate the story.
31:29
I know that, but like, it helps. I know, but I, you know that
31:33
you, but you know, you, you know, you can put the pinhole
31:37
and put it on a tack board for you to love the card.
31:39
You can put it in a scrapbook because you want to look at it
31:42
as much as you can. You are doing something to the
31:44
card because of love, not because as you're trying to
31:47
clean it or anything like that or you put a stamp on it because
31:51
you don't want your buddy to steal it because that's my card
31:54
as a kid, right? So I agree you aren't defacing
31:57
it. But this is the thing with I
32:00
appeal and lower grade cards you have to give, right?
32:04
Of course we would love to have cards that are perfect, right?
32:07
We would want them to all be 10s in a perfect world or at least
32:11
to look like 10s. So Greg, if you if you will not
32:14
give up the back, you will not do a pinhole.
32:17
What will you give up on for you to get a good eye appeal card
32:21
besides rounded corners? Everybody's OK with rounded
32:23
corners. What else can it make a very
32:27
your Gowdy Ruth that I know is on your list.
32:29
You know that if that's a three, if that's a three.
32:32
You know why you're cute 'cause this is the question I asked you
32:35
15 minutes ago. What is the most over rated eye
32:40
real item? What is the thing that matters?
32:43
I asked you that 15 minutes ago and then you went blah blah blah
32:47
blah blah blah. And then you came back and you
32:49
said, so Greg, I've got this really good question.
32:52
What matters the least? And I'm like, bro, are you
32:56
serious right now? Okay.
32:59
Fine, answer your own question, Greg.
33:00
Listen, it's a brilliant question.
33:03
It's an absolutely brilliant question, David.
33:07
God. Show me.
33:09
Alright, do you want me to answer it first or do you want
33:12
to answer it? First, I would love to hear your
33:14
answer to this King Greg. So we're saying that corners are
33:18
out because we've all, a lot of us are OK with rounded corners.
33:23
So I guess what we have to do then is we have to kind of talk
33:27
through what are the other things like there's centering,
33:31
right? There's back damage, there are
33:34
wrinkles and creases, there's color issues.
33:40
There are what? Registration.
33:42
Registration. Back off centering which I'm
33:46
sure both of us centering yeah, I'm OK with it I know you love
33:49
your back. I'm.
33:50
I'm OK with it. I'm OK with backs being off
33:52
center. Interesting.
33:55
So of those ones, are we? I mean, of those ones, what is
34:02
the thing I could live with the most I could live with again?
34:06
Of course. We all want everything to be
34:09
nice, of course. You have to.
34:12
Give so let me put a card on the screen, which is another card
34:17
from your collection and I don't know I want to I want to talk
34:20
through this this back damage. This is a beautiful 41 play
34:25
ball. Ted Williams it's got good
34:28
registration, it's got good centering, it's got honest
34:33
corners. It's got, I would I would say
34:35
average to average plus color. There's it's maybe a little
34:40
dulled color maybe. But right here on the card,
34:44
there's a little bit of a paper loss and then at the bottom left
34:48
there's a little bit of a paper loss.
34:50
So when we talk about back damage, I'm, I'm, I'm pretty
34:54
good with this. Like this.
34:57
This is a card I could get on board with versus, yeah, versus,
35:05
you know, and even we didn't talk about this on the Willie
35:08
Mays. There is a little bit of wax
35:10
staining on the Willie Mays on the back wax.
35:14
If anything, to be honest with you, that might be my answer.
35:18
I, I don't dis, I don't dislike wax staining.
35:27
I wouldn't say I like it, but it bothers me. 0 And part of it is
35:35
because it, it's, it's one of the easier things to get rid of.
35:41
It's one of the easier things that some of these card care
35:46
kits can remove the easiest. And so it tells me they didn't.
35:52
This hasn't been through any sort of treatment and so that's.
35:58
What substance, Mr. Foreign substance on my cards I don't
36:01
like. Isn't that exactly a foreign
36:03
substance? To me, the foreign substance is
36:05
anything that goes onto a card after it has been removed from
36:11
the vessel in which it is distributed.
36:15
So for me and it's fine for you then?
36:19
I mean the the just like this. It depends on how intrusive the
36:27
gum stain is. There's some of the gum and some
36:29
of like the early 80s where it like would literally like burn
36:32
the card and it would it would like it would like it was pretty
36:39
bad. But assuming we're talking about
36:41
opening a card from 1980 that was printed in 1980, then a gum
36:48
stain or a gum residue wouldn't bother me much.
36:51
No, especially if it's on the back.
36:53
And that's where wax isn't always when it's on the front,
36:58
it usually isn't there. But wax doesn't bug me on this
37:03
card on this on this card, this wax bothers ME00 does the.
37:11
Fisheye bother you? Yes, the fisheye be.
37:15
Allowed in your collection? Or would you be waiting for a
37:18
different copy? I would rather talk about
37:21
hypothetical cards than cards that my friends I it.
37:26
I own the card and I take zero offense.
37:28
I promise. The the thing about this card
37:32
that bugs me the most is the fish eye.
37:35
Yeah, this fish, this fish eye, I struggle with that fish eye.
37:41
Not all fish eyes bug me, but that.
37:43
But this fish eye, where it's at, it almost looks like he's
37:47
looking at it. It bugs me a little bit.
37:49
I love the centering, I love the color.
37:52
There's a little bit of a little bit of snowing that doesn't
37:56
bother me. The wax on the back doesn't
37:59
bother me. The only part the little crease
38:03
down here on the corner, no problem.
38:05
The the the biggest issue I have with this card is the fish eye.
38:10
And I want to mention something about them.
38:11
So. And by the way, I agree with
38:13
you, right? And here's the thing though, you
38:16
know, this was a card that was on my list for a very long time.
38:19
I really wanted a AA51 Bowman Willie Mays card.
38:24
And man, this card is obnoxious to find centered in low grade.
38:28
You can sometimes find them. Like I feel like the minimum is
38:31
like that, that sweet spot of like a four.
38:34
You can find them, but man, that's a really expensive card.
38:37
And to find it in a two that centered was, I mean, I looked
38:42
at a lot, a lot of copies. So this was one that I bought
38:46
that I, I, I had to give, right? But to be honest with you, this
38:51
card is still on my list when I'm looking at cards.
38:56
It's still on my auction wire list.
38:58
It's still on my eBay list because I there is room for
39:03
improvement on it. And that's the coolest thing
39:05
about I Appeal is that just because you have a version of
39:09
it, because vintage cards are so different from each other, it's
39:13
OK to I'm happy to have this in my collection.
39:16
It's not one that I need to get rid of, but if I find a better
39:19
one I will happily kick it to the curb.
39:22
OK, let let's do a a, a real life comparison.
39:27
This or that. Would you, would you rather this
39:30
card have that fisheye right there, or would you rather that
39:35
card have this damage to Ted William like the Ted Williams
39:39
has on the back there? If I could have all my cards
39:42
like the Ted Williams damage on the back, I would have every
39:45
single card like that. So the fish eye bugs you more
39:48
than this little piece of back damage on the Ted Williams
39:52
surface issues, hey? Like how I worked that in
39:57
surface issues on the front of a card is my second most important
40:01
attribute. But you can see that sometimes I
40:03
can give on it a little bit for a specific kind of card if it's
40:08
just a tough one to find or an expensive one where it's as good
40:12
as I can find at the moment right now that Ted Williams.
40:18
I would love for all of my cards look like that, a tiny bit of
40:21
back damage, looking great as a front doesn't have to have sharp
40:24
corners. It can be, it can have some
40:26
toning and things like that, but a good photo, very well
40:29
centered. That's my goal, to find every
40:32
card like that. It would be very tough for me to
40:35
upgrade that Williams. That is not on my list of cards
40:38
that I'm still looking at. Now if one hit me in the face
40:41
that looked like that but it was sharp corners and had that same
40:44
tiny bit of back damage, I kicked that one to the curb too.
40:47
Because I love cards. I don't have to only love my
40:50
version of the card. That's the fun thing about I
40:53
appeal is that No2 cards are the same and I'm always trying to
40:57
find a low grade high one that I love the look at it more than
41:04
more than the one that I currently have.
41:07
I, I, I love what you're saying right now and, and we still
41:10
haven't asked the question that I asked and then 15 minutes
41:14
later you asked. But I, you're, I want to back up
41:18
on something real quick. I'm going to look back at this,
41:20
this Ted Williams. You said if you had the card
41:24
exactly like this, but it had super sharp corners that you
41:30
would, you would step up and get that card.
41:33
Is that what you said? I would.
41:36
I am a person who when we're talking about pre war cards,
41:41
which this is a, you know, probably pre, I mean, this is
41:45
this is pre war. I would say I I don't want I
41:52
don't want my corner sharp. I, I don't think it looks real
41:57
when it's sharp, when it's a card that is.
42:00
I mean, this card is 85 years old.
42:03
Like to me, if it had sharp corners, it wouldn't, it
42:12
wouldn't feel like it actually lived it would it would, it
42:15
would be like a card. It would be like a card that was
42:19
in a tomb like like it is now in this, you know, PSA tomb.
42:27
I like a card that's old to look old, but it has to look old in
42:35
the areas I'm OK with it looking old.
42:39
And I think that that's the whole the whole conversation
42:42
that we're having right now. In a nutshell, the whole
42:46
conversation is everything in this hobby, everything in the
42:52
this is what makes the hobby great.
42:55
Everything in the hobby is subjective.
42:58
Is that Ted Williams a cool card?
43:02
Depends on who you ask. Is Ted Williams a guy worth
43:05
collecting? Depends on who you ask.
43:08
Does that card deserve A1? Depends on who you ask.
43:11
Is centering better than color, which is better than surface,
43:15
which is better than registration?
43:18
Depends on who you ask. That's the part about this whole
43:23
thing that is actually fun. And when people come through
43:28
with these dogmatic statements that say things like, if you
43:33
think this, you're an idiot. Like you can't make those
43:38
statements in this hobby. You can't make this empirical
43:44
statement in this hobby about anything.
43:47
There are cards that I love, that other people hate, and vice
43:51
versa, and that's what makes it great.
43:55
And the fact that we can sit here and blab for 44 consecutive
43:59
minutes about centering matters more than registration, which
44:04
matters more than back damage, which matters more than
44:06
fisheyes, which. And we could disagree with it,
44:09
But you and I, in two months, 2 1/2 months, will be in Chicago
44:16
in this giant room. And we'll be walking around
44:19
together looking at cards together.
44:21
And you're going to buy cards that I wouldn't want.
44:24
And I'm going to buy cards that you wouldn't want.
44:27
And you're going to say, look at my card.
44:29
I'm going to go, that's awesome, bud.
44:31
And you're going to show me your card.
44:32
And I'm say, that's awesome, bud.
44:34
And even though it may not be what I want, I appreciate that
44:40
it is exactly what you want. You know, the the reason the I
44:47
appeal conversation won't go away is because it's not
44:54
empirical. It's it's not finite, It's not
44:58
right and wrong. It's it's like saying what
45:02
should the the Yankees do over the offseason to improve the
45:07
team? It could be changing coaches.
45:11
It could be changing, getting rid of players, adding new
45:13
players. It could be infinite number of
45:16
things. That's the best part.
45:19
So I don't see this conversation going away.
45:22
And we, we had like we had a couple of brief talks before
45:29
this about how do we talk about this topic?
45:32
And it's like it's such a complicated topic that you can't
45:39
have an agenda when you talk about it because there are so
45:44
many varieties of places that it could go.
45:48
And this is what's fun like to me.
45:50
We for the last 46 minutes I've had a freaking hoot of a time
45:56
talking we. Have a better Co host this time.
45:58
You know, I mean you, you lucked out this year this week.
46:00
But I want I want to mention one more thing that we didn't talk
46:04
about for this I appeal thing, which I agree with everything
46:07
you just said. That was a great way to sum it
46:08
up and I probably shouldn't say anything else, but when people
46:13
sometimes wait one SEC, one SEC, one SEC.
46:16
Oh God. All right, go for it.
46:21
What number is this, by the way? He just he just shoved another
46:27
cookie in his mouth. Possibly 2 at the same time.
46:29
All right, so here's I'll only one people get upset when we
46:36
talk about I appeal because they're say even though it's
46:40
always been around that no one's trying to dispute that because
46:43
of prices increasing based on it and they think it's bad for the
46:47
hobby. And that's the thing I just want
46:50
to address. And by the way, you can feel
46:52
that way, OK? It's OK.
46:54
I will still be everybody's friend that feels that way.
46:57
It's OK. I would rather everybody not
46:59
collect the way I do. It brings up the price of the
47:02
cards that I'm collecting. So like I'm not trying to
47:05
convince anybody that this is the right way.
47:08
This is just my version of it. OK.
47:11
And The thing is, is that part of this journey and for you to
47:16
be if you are looking for a card and you are looking for a week
47:20
and you find that card, it's great.
47:22
But if you are looking for a card for years and trying to
47:26
find the right copy, that's a lower grade of one that you can
47:29
afford. And it finally comes up the way
47:33
that my 48 leaf Jackie in a one came up, which is kind of how a
47:37
lot of this conversation started for me back in the day.
47:42
I was looking for that card forever and that was for me a
47:46
one of one card. And that's the reason why it
47:50
went for the highest price ever and should have even gone for
47:53
more. Even though I know that 99% of
47:55
people think that that's psychotic and it is psychotic
47:57
for most people. But for a specialized amount of
48:00
people who are looking for a card for a long period of time
48:03
that cannot afford a four, and they finally find it in A1 or
48:07
A2, that is exceptional and one that is unlike what even a six
48:11
looks like. They're going to pay more.
48:14
And they're going to be happy to pay more because they've been
48:16
looking for that card forever. And that's the difference
48:19
between a card with that as good eye appeal and spectacular eye
48:24
appeal. And there's a very big
48:25
difference between those two. And I'm not even saying that Ted
48:28
Williams is spectacular eye appeal, but it would be higher
48:31
than probably the highest comp 1 if it were to sell today at an
48:35
auction. And that makes sense because try
48:38
to find another one that has a French that looks like that,
48:42
that has been sold over the last two years.
48:44
It'll be very tough to find. And that's the reason why it
48:47
doesn't have to. We don't have to agree with the
48:49
reasoning for it, but just know there's weirdos like me that
48:53
believe that. And that's why we're willing to
48:55
pay that 1 1/2 price, because we can't afford the three and it's
48:59
as nice as we can get a card to look like.
49:03
Well said And I have one. I have one closing question for
49:08
you and with that after that your response, we'll go ahead
49:13
and and close this out. What has been a fantastic
49:17
episode of For Surface Issues if I don't?
49:19
Probably the best one. I would say this is probably the
49:21
best. Surface, I mean it's clearly the
49:23
best one. My question to you is this and
49:27
and if if you were to list 1,000,000 questions that you
49:31
think I'm going to ask you, I can promise you that the
49:34
question I'm about to ask you is not in the first million
49:38
guesses. It's not about food.
49:41
It's not about food. Oh wow.
49:44
Do you hate? Bark, bark, bark.
49:48
Are you talking about a tree or the kind of root beer?
49:51
What are you? I'm talking about bark.
49:53
Like bark ground cover in a house.
49:59
Do you hate bark? I don't even think.
50:03
I mean, I I might maybe I'm stupid, but I don't even think I
50:05
know what that is. I know bark on a tree.
50:08
What's bark that you put on the? Homes, what they'll do is
50:12
they'll take bark like that, like shredded mulch from wood,
50:18
and they'll spread it instead of like rock as like ground cover.
50:23
Pieces like add a playground, like wood pieces like wood chips
50:27
kind of thing. Oh, it's the worst.
50:29
It's the worst. You don't like bark, see,
50:31
because bark costs people a lot of money.
50:36
See, what people do is if you go and you buy a house and there's
50:41
fresh ground cover like bark, then the house will sell for
50:45
more because it just looks fresher and cleaner and it looks
50:48
better. And So what a lot of people will
50:51
do before they sell their house is they'll go get fresh bark,
50:55
they'll buy some fertilizer, they'll put it on the lawn to
50:58
make the lawn greener. And then you pull up to the
51:00
house, you go look at this. Such a nice curb appeal.
51:04
Curb appeal. I appeal for houses, curb appeal
51:08
for this house. And then they immediately like
51:11
the house and they pay more money for the house.
51:15
So when people go and spend $150 on five yards of bark, what
51:20
they're actually doing is getting an extra $25,000 for the
51:24
house. That's exactly the same thing as
51:28
these eye appeal stickers. I'm telling you, it's these eye
51:32
appeal stickers, these eye appeal movement.
51:36
It's putting lipstick on the same item.
51:42
And to me, Bark freshens it up and it makes it look a little
51:48
bit more attractive. And I'm not mad at Bark about
51:53
that. I'm not mad at Bark because they
51:57
make house prices sell for more. To me, it's still the same
52:03
house. It's still the same card.
52:06
And what you like in a house and what I like in a house and what
52:09
you like in a card and what I like in a card, they're going to
52:13
be different things. And we have to focus on the
52:16
things that we like instead of worrying about the things that
52:20
other people like. If there's anything that we have
52:23
accomplished in the last 52 minutes, in my humble opinion,
52:27
it's that we have fully agreed that it is OK and normal to have
52:36
different preferences in what matters and in what doesn't
52:41
matter in cards. And when you hear the term I
52:44
appeal, it is not a universal finite definition.
52:49
People said what does I appeal mean to you?
52:50
It's going to mean something different to me, to you, to
52:55
Dylan, to Jeremy, to junk wax Mike, to whoever.
53:00
It's going to be different. And again, that's why it's fun.
53:04
It would be so boring if we all like the same 5 cards and they
53:10
all looked exactly the same. It would not be fun.
53:15
Man, what a pro you are. This.
53:17
This episode should just go straight to the YouTube Hall of
53:20
Fame for next year's voting, right?
53:22
I don't know what. I don't know anything about the
53:23
YouTube Hall of Fame buddy. I'm just saying, I mean, listen
53:27
to that speech that you just gave them in there.
53:30
I've never heard a better speech in my entire life.
53:32
Cut that up. That used to go on your TikTok.
53:35
That was brilliant. My friend that was couldn't be
53:37
better than that. You know how I'm going to reward
53:39
myself? With another Oreo.
53:41
With a food pellet in the form of a double stuffed golden Oreo.
53:46
Let me see it, show it to the camera.
53:48
Let me see this double stuffed Oreo that.
53:50
You have now on our. Show.
53:52
Make sure to twist it and. When our show at the end of our
53:57
show, you usually sing us out. Yeah.
54:01
Do I now? Now, as far as I'm concerned,
54:05
being the new permanent guest of Surface Issues, I feel like we
54:10
should probably have you sing us out.
54:12
Would you like to do that? You know what?
54:17
Give the give the fans what they want, right?
54:20
I'm all about it. All right, do you have anything?
54:24
I mean, you could. I mean, you just ended with the
54:26
most epic speech. I feel like it's sad to even say
54:29
anything after that, but man, that was amazing.
54:32
All right. By the way, love Greg, Junk wax,
54:35
even though you big timed me, thank you for allowing me to be
54:38
on your show. I still haven't received the
54:40
apology. Even though you started texting
54:42
me. I'm still waiting on that.
54:43
And I don't want an apology to my text.
54:45
I want it to be to to the world, to the masses.
54:50
OK, when it eventually does happen.
54:52
All right. And by the way, I do love him.
54:54
He's actually a great guy. OK, let's end it.
54:58
Hey, we have a new sponsor on our channel, so this is going to
55:01
be AI used to love ska and punk music when I was in high school.
55:05
I was one of those nerds. And this is a song that I loved
55:08
back in the day, and it went a little something like this.
55:11
Sell out with me. Oh, yeah.
55:14
Sell out with me tonight. The record company's going to
55:17
give me lots of money and everything's going to be all
55:20
right.