Latest / The Standard Sportsman / Waiting on the First Front

Transcript

Waiting on the First Front · The Standard Sportsman

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_05: Welcome to the Standard Sportsman Podcast, where duck and goose hunting's hottest topics meet a mission to leave the resource better than we found it.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_05: Lifelong Arkansas hunter conservationist Kasten Stork and Brent Burch bring you thought-provoking conversations with insightful guests before, during, and after the season.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_05: Glad you're here.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_05: Let's get into it.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, it's Brent and Case and back with another edition of the Standard Sportsman podcast, and we're uh sitting here I guess one could say in the studio, except we're in two separate studios, but we're uh we're recording this on 9-11, which was uh a pretty impactful time for our country.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_03: It's amazing to think that 25 years has gone by that quickly.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_03: A lot has changed.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sure in in everyone's lives.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_03: I I heard a stat this morning I was taking the kids to school that a third of Americans were not alive uh on that day, which is just makes me feel really old.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_03: It's a very significant day, a very somber day.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_03: So I guess I'll start the conversation.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um, where were you?
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I I remember, I'll preface that.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_03: I remember my dad was born in 43.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_03: So I remember all these like touch points in his life he talked about, like where he was when Kennedy was assassinated, uh Martin Luther King, you know, all these significant moments.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_03: And he could remember exactly where he was at when he heard about it.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, as a little kid, I was like, wow, that's you know, that's that's amazing, that's crazy.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_03: And then, you know, we have something like that happen.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_03: I don't want to say to us.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um obviously I wasn't in New York, so I can't say that it happened to me, but maybe as Americans, it did happen to all of us.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_03: So anyway, I preface that to ask that question.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, where were you?
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, uh I I was at the office.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: I remember uh and we kind of it was kind of an open cubicle world, and uh you know, word got out that a plane had crashed, you know, into the building, and it's like, well, what in the world?
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, it and then it all un obviously unfolds from there, and then you figure out that man, this is uh this is something we've never seen or experienced.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I guess since to a degree, Pearl Harbor.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: So uh yeah, I mean, I know exactly where I was and and uh and when it happened and kind of the reaction.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: It was uh man, it was something.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and that's an interesting point.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_03: Uh because I think I remember the time, you know, telling friends about like this, you know, this was our modern day Pearl Harbor, but really, you know, thinking about it this morning and talking about it with my wife, you know, she pointed out, you know, at least at least the Japanese attacked a military installation, you know.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, this was an attack on innocent civilians, a whole different level of terror, you know, that that the world had ever seen.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um so my story, you know, similar, and I again try to explain that to my kids is as we're watching stuff this morning and rushing them off to school, you know, they see this condensed timeline, and and to them, they've always known it was a terror attack, right?
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_03: But but in real time, we didn't.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, you know, I remember I'd gotten up early that morning, I was in college, uh, got up early because I had to go return a movie to Blockbuster, if anybody remembers what those were.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um so I'd gotten up early, you know, get out of the shower and turn on the news, and then a plane had hit, you know.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_03: And first thought is, gee, you know, it was a private plane.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_03: Like, how you know, how does a pilot run into a skyscraper?
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_03: You know, but okay, they're up above the skyline, you know, that's crazy.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_03: But it evolved, you know, and we start getting images and you start kind of putting pieces together, and then the second plane hits.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_03: And then but like so, in between that time, I'd left my apartment, made it to Blockbuster, and get to my fraternity house, and you know, everyone's gathered there watching it.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_03: And uh, you're you're putting pieces together.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_03: It didn't happen quite as the the timeline today would would imply.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_03: And it was uh hard to hard to process at all and hard to keep up with it.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_03: And anyway, uh went on to class that day, get to class, and the professor immediately sent us home.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_03: It's like you get out of here, you you guys don't need to be here.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um interesting side note, we were that happened on Tuesday, and I think we had a game scheduled that got postponed, but we ended up Mississippi State, maybe against South Carolina.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_03: I don't remember who we were to play in.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_03: But we were the first televised sporting event after 9-11 because they shut everything down.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, not just grounded all, yeah, not just all the airplanes, I mean it just shut down everything.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_03: So it's it's interesting looking back 25 years.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um and uh that's another thing that I I told my children maybe yesterday.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_03: It's like you know, the thing I miss the most is I missed that that September 12th, September 13th, America when we were we were all Americans.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_03: We were no longer divided by an election or political parties.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_03: We were very, very united in a way that really made everyone proud to be an American.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, no question.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: That was a big rallying point, uh, and where the whole country's fo I mean probably the whole world, but you know, the whole country's focus was on on this and and just yeah, the everybody kind of let their guard down on all these things.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: But uh at the same time, I don't believe our country was as divided, so to speak, uh, as it is currently.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you know, social media was not uh the the platform it is now.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um and love it or hate it, you I mean you can't deny that it's played a huge role in in kind of where we are today.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: But um, I mean, different time and place um as far as you know what the country was like and and how we viewed things and communicated and everything else, and it's just it's different now.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: It does make you wonder how this would go um if if this had not happened in 2001 and happened in 2026.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_02: If this happened in 2026, how would this country react to it today?
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't know, I kind of I don't have a real clear vision of what that would look like.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it it would it would have to be different.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, uh and I you know I'm trying to trying to draw some correlation here, right?
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_03: Like we had a pretty contested election in two that uh 2000, yeah.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: That was uh was it the Florida recount?
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's uh my my youngest son was born the day of uh that election.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: He was born November 7th, 2000.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: So that was the hanging chad uh election with Al Gore and the other.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of Halloween customs that year.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: But uh that's exactly right.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: It was uh the year before was that election.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um so yeah, you know, kind of a different uh dynamic compared to where we are today.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean divided, but not definitely not the the vitriol uh that we see today.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_03: And and I'll be honest, uh I like to lay blame at both parties.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you you look at candidates that we've both sides have run subsequently, and you know, it's it's as if each party is trying to run the most uh outrageous candidate they can.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we used to run you know, moderates and and blue dog democrats and and people that could reach across the aisle, but man, we've just just keep driving that wedge deeper and deeper, it seems like.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and and that's what plays.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: It just you know, the news eats it up and and social media eats it up, but uh you know the truth is most just I mean it's not not that much different duck hunting.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of people are in the middle.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_02: But the but the the extremes are the are the loudest and get they get the play.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's that's what kind of skews some viewpoints and obviously uh you know with social media the logarithm figures out where where you lean and what what you like to watch and listen to, and you just get fed um you know what fits your deal and kind of steers your narrative, so to speak.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: So um 100%.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: But it just didn't have it back then.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_03: No, it it it definitely feeds it to you.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_03: Uh one of my neighbors is a fan of a particular music artist.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_03: I won't name who, uh, but some of us around like to kind of mock that artist and and maybe her a little bit as well.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_03: And uh anyway, I stumbled across some reel on Instagram this week making fun of him.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_03: So I had to share it in our little group text, and lo and behold, that's all the algorithm has fed me all week long, is other reels making fun of that same guy.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, it figures out you know, if you if you lean into whatever it is, that the hate and vitriol or anything else, it's gonna just keep feeding it to you, and then you're surrounded in your own world that you think is you know a whole worldview, but but oftentimes it's not.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_02: No, that's that is accurate for sure.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um and it's it's it's having an amazing impact.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_03: It has, it really has.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_03: That would make a great uh social science experiment.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_03: But there was an interesting story, and I'd heard it a couple days ago, maybe, and then I just saw her interview on the news this morning.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_03: Uh you know, fighter pilot Heather Penny, I think her call sign was lucky.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't know if you're familiar with the story, but they're uh her and another pilot were National Guard.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_03: So their their jets got scrambled that morning.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I believe they were sent up after flight 93.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_03: Uh at the time, I don't think they knew that 93 had gone down.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_03: I think 93 went down before they got airborne.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_03: But because they got scrambled, their jets were not armed.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_03: So they they took off knowing that their plan was to to crash that airliner, and they agreed on takeoff that the the male lead, I don't remember his name, would would fly into the cockpit and she would fly into the tail of that aircraft, which is pretty remarkable to think that you're leaving the ground, you know, with knowledge and understanding that you're not coming back.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um so in her interview this morning, you know, she was being you know praised as a hero in in in really classy ways, she kind of shied away from that.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_03: She's like, I, you know, I didn't I didn't do anything.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_03: The the people on 93 did it.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_03: You know, they they did what what we were sent to do.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_03: And she brought up something that was really uh really kind of poignant in to in today in this 25th anniversary and kind of where we're at as a nation.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_03: I mean she brought up how many Americans showed their true colors, their true patriotism in giving up something for the greater good for other people.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, I think maybe we're seeing something similar in the waterfowl space when we look at kind of the rally around some of the threats that that we've had in recent weeks.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_03: And I and I don't mean to I'm not trying to compare that to 9-11 because that's that would be silly, but I do think there's some awareness um that's going on, some people that are acutely aware of the threats to habitat and everything else that we've got going on.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_03: And and we face a lot of division uh and and friction as well.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_03: So I don't know, uh the the two both of those kind of have me thinking about that situation where we're at today.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you you're right.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: It it it it's not uh uh you know apples to apples uh comparable event in any way, and and we're not neither one of us are trying to trying to make that uh those dots connect.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_02: But I mean you could take similarities out of events and that go on in in say the the the regular world and you know outside of duck hunting, but you can you can tie it back to uh in in some level.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I think you're right.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: I think some of that stuff we saw come out of the um drain tile setback and then this support for the two duck stamp deal.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: I think some people's eyes have been opened that you can have impact um uh you know from a conservation angle uh versus piles and and a lot of the other junk uh that that we see.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um you can have impact uh by by rattling around around a cause.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_02: And and I think that's uh kind of an interesting dynamic.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we named that episode a few weeks ago, you know, it was a social experiment.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: We saw social experiment come out of that.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: We're seeing a social, we're gonna see a social experiment with these, probably somewhat with these midterm elections, and not to go, you know, total politics, but uh, you know, we just have a lot of things going on in our world that uh you can either choose to rally around or rally against.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_02: And and uh, you know, I'd sure like to find our duck hunting world, find things to rally around, um, and and see if we can't stack some of these on top of each other to uh you know, kind of write the ship a little bit.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I don't think anybody's gonna sit here and say, man, everything's just going just like we like it in the waterfowling world.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's it leans more the exact opposite of that.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_02: But maybe some of these things stacking on top of each other can can uh turn that ship a little bit.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you'd like to think, right?
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I I don't know.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_03: Short of a maybe if you used car salesmen on social media that want to tell you they had the greatest year of their life last year.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know many duck hunters that would tell you that things are great right now.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um and if those guys are being honest, they would tell you they had to travel and had to go find a spot that was that was fantastic to hunt.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um I guess I say that to say that a true shining light of hope has been a little few and far between maybe over the last 25 years.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_03: Uh no, there's there's been we had some peak numbers in between then and now, but um but it's been it's been few and far between, you know, and and I think we all sit here and we talk about the steady decline and and maybe our glory years and however you want to phrase it, but we've all had a front row seat to this decline, and I'm hopeful that that we can take the frustration of those duck hunters and channel it into something good because there's a lot of frustration to go around, and unfortunately, there's fingers being pointed in a lot of the wrong directions, too.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_02: That is very true.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um because there's some there's some blocking and tackling things that need to be addressed before you know, before you put in, you know, the triple quarterback, reverse, pass, you know, all that stuff.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: You gotta be able to run the ball up the middle a little bit.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_02: And uh we've got some of those things on our plate uh that we can we can have impact on.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: Uh because I did record a a show with the with Jake Maxwell of Chasing Green, and we kind of got into that a little bit, and he's really frustrated by a lot of the the stuff he's hearing, or hunters are just giving up.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: I can't I can't do anything about that.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_02: I just I'm gonna sit here and complain.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_02: There's nothing I can do about that.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_02: And he does he doesn't really care for that defeatist mentality, and and I don't think we do either.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's why we're we're active in in what we talk about on this show, and active in in things we support and people we rally around and conversate with and everything else, because we we want to find a way to to make change, positive change, and and the the ability to get away from the finger pointing as to to who's to blame for this or that, um that's a that's a fundamental step in the right direction, and we can't seem to get there.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: And and there there are obviously there are always been element that will never get there.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_02: They're just they're gonna be stuck in that blame game from now until they they finish duck hunting.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um and and that's that's not gonna help anything progress.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's just uh a spot you're gonna you're gonna sit high center for quite some time until you probably just give up the sport.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um so yeah, uh I would I'd like us to to find those things to rally around, uh not against.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and you you know, you mentioned something to me about your conversation with him, um and we we did a little self-reflecting.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_03: I we had done so beforehand, but it was interesting to hear his take on kind of our tone over this podcast.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, we we originally started this.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I think to understand our podcast, you have to kind of know our history and trying to get our hands involved in research and wanted to start a nonprofit to help fund more of that telemetry research.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because I definitely value the insight we get from the wintering ground.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's very, very revealing, at least on our end, and in terms of managers and what we're doing, like that information is very valuable.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_03: And then it, you know, in turn it became very telling too about hen mortality rates, uh, you know, whether you can dismiss that as just being a transmitter effect or not.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_03: You know, here we are more than a, I guess, a decade later, and you're starting to hear a little conversation about hen mortality rates.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_03: We're starting to hear about sex ratios, and these were all topics that you and I were kind of had a front row seat to in some of these early transmitter studies.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_03: So to get to my point here, you know, this podcast started out of a really deep concern for where we were at years ago, before so many people were complaining.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_03: I think we kind of saw the writing on the wall, certainly with the biologists that we were around and talking to at the time who were sounding some alarm bells back then.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_03: So I guess I say that to try to excuse maybe the doom and gloom uh that we started out with, but you know, we evolved a lot.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_03: We also realized you you can't be negative all the time or no one's gonna listen.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_03: And the goal here is to reach people and to to spread that message of conservation.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_03: So uh I think we bettered ourselves, our understanding, and our viewpoint along the way.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_03: But but yeah, I mean it's it's kind of that point of how do we rally together?
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_03: How do we how do we each do our part?
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_03: And that's again what what kind of the point she made so pointily this morning about everybody played a role after 9-11.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_03: And I think there's a role for everyone in conservation right now.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_03: We just have to find it.
• 18:28
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• 18:42
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• 19:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's a really good point.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and yeah, you kind of have to get in where you fit in, so to speak.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: You know, not everybody can stroke a six, seven-figure check.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_02: There's people doing it, and and we should all be thankful that they are because of what comes out on the other end of that, um, which is uh, you know, funding more research.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_02: Typically, that's where those dollars go to.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_02: Some of it goes to protect habitat and things like that, and and develop wetlands and and other things that benefit a duck, because you know, you to be able to shoot a duck, you gotta have a duck.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_02: And you gotta have a bunch of ducks.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um so you know, that's the that's always been the North American conservation model that hunters prop up the the species that they're actually pursuing.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: Uh but not everybody can do that from a financial standpoint, but there's something you can do.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, that's what makes the the two duck stamp things so simple.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, if you you can afford a duck hunt, you can afford an extra$25 or or you know, buy three, could call it$100 even.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody that duck hunts has got a hundred dollars they could buy uh and just let that multiplier work uh to to benefit ducks.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_02: And there's other things to do besides that.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: I know we're we're pumping this buy two duck stamp thing because it because it is so simple, it's kind of a no-brainer kind of deal, and and everybody can do it.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um but uh you have to look for ways to help versus ways to to hurt.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_02: And and Jake and I talked about this as well, and he asked me one thing that I you know, not one thing I could change, but one thing you'd like to you know, hunters to think about, and and I I kind of you know structure my answer around everybody's so wrapped up in their own decoy spread and uh are just consumed by how many ducks they saw that day, shot that day, and that's it.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: They they don't understand or even try to understand or see the bigger picture, especially when you got an animal that that lives 2,000 miles away from here, and then spends you know 90 days down in this part of the world, and then has it has all these stops in between, and if and if more hunters.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Kind of wrap their brain around all that.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you saw it.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_02: You saw comments, and I don't know if they were rage baiting people or what, but you saw them around the drain tile deal.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: They were like, well, the ducks don't come to where I am anymore.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: They they get hung up up there, so I drain every damn one of those things.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, what what logic is that?
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: Now, like I said, they could have been lobbing out there just to get the the Facebook army to you know go bananas and and do all that back and forth that they do, but there's probably pretty strong odds that person really thought that, really thinks that that that that's going to be the solution to get duck get Mallers to go back to Louisiana, for example.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um and that's that's so short short-sighted.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_02: And that's just not understanding that the whole deal.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: So uh that would go a long way if if you I know it's made me uh more patient with how seasons go, ebb and flow.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, even within a season, not just season to season, but even within a season of of my effort to understand more about what's going on with the duck and talking to people that are really smart about all this stuff, um, I think it's helped me understand it more and also realistically set expectations going into this season.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: Like, okay, this is not gonna be as good as it was in 1999 or you know, pick a year.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um but but you know, as good as it was in 1999 and 2001, I I distinctly remember 2005 was awful, awful duck season.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I think I've told you I don't know that I killed a duck in January.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that was 21 years ago, but uh, you know, it does ebb and flow, and and understanding why it's gonna ebb and flow that that just kind of puts you on a more reality uh, you know, uh mindset going into a season.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, I don't know what to expect this this season with a limited number of ponds, but it's a little wetter up there than it has been in in some areas.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: And so maybe there's been some better production.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_02: We won't find out until you know uh this fall and and what we see come November um or you know, if they get pushed here before Christmas and things like that, but but it sounds more encouraging.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um and and we we you know hunters are begging for it and we're due for it.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so um we won't know, but it sounds encouraging.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, a little better status than we have been.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_02: So um I don't know.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know what to expect this season, but uh I think my ability to learn more about what a mallard duck does is sure uh made me uh kind of set my mind right going into a duck season.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so I promise this will be my last correlation to 9-11.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_03: But you know, you mentioned just seeing our own decoy spread.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_03: That's kind of what maybe what set us up for that attack was a lack of sharing of information among agencies.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_03: You know, everything was in kind of its own silo, and stuff falls through the cracks when we don't talk to one another.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_03: And I think you can, you know, you could look at waterfowl research kind of in the same light.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_03: You know, back back when you and I were first kind of getting involved, a lot of those guys weren't necessarily working together.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of the names now that everyone recognizes, you know, they didn't really share information.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_03: It was very uh I dare call it boutique, but I mean some scientists considered it hobby banding.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, so they were very kept their cards close to the chest.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_03: It's much more accepted today, and they're sharing that information a lot more.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_03: So we we've got a lot more going for us now than we than we did years ago.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and that's a good thing.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_03: But I think as hunters, we've got to be in the same boat, right?
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_03: Like we've got to look, as you said, beyond just our own decoy spread.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because it's it's easy to think about what benefits you.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_03: You know, how do I kill more ducks?
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, well, if they don't kill them up there, then I'll get to kill them down here.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_03: And that's not that's not the end goal.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_03: The end goal is to have more ducks.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_03: You know, more ducks equals more success for everybody.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's where we where we've got to get to and where we've got to focus our attention.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_02: Serious waterfowl management isn't about reacting day to day.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's about making better decisions every season.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_02: Create the X is a waterfowl land management app built for the real work in the field.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's not meant to replace your journal or notebook.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_02: It allows you to access your past management history in real time right in the field.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_02: Track water movement, log field work, and GPS overlays, mark blinds, drop land damage pins, and record equipment maintenance documented by location and date so nothing gets lost over time.
• 26:52
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• 26:59
  SPEAKER_02: From your first field to the farthest fence line, manage it smarter with CreateTheX.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: Learn more at CreatheX.com.
• 27:05
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• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: Since 1937, Ducks Unlimited has been the leader in waterfowl conservation, with over 16 million acres of habitat conserved.
• 27:19
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• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: Today, tomorrow, and forever.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: You too can play a role in leading a legacy for the future of waterfowl hunting.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: To find an event near you or to join our volunteer team, go to www.ducks.org slash volunteer.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: Ducks Unlimited.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you're right about you know, science was kind of in a silo um uh for a good time period, and there's definitely more collaboration now.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um we've had several of them on this show that work together uh because they're seeing they're seeing the same bigger cohort of ducks bouncing around between their research areas of of knowledge and expertise and and can share and determine a lot of things.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_02: Because in the grand scheme of things, there's not enough, especially today, there's not enough banded ducks out there compared to where they were, say, in the 70s and 80s, and and uh there are definitely not enough transmitter ducks to to make these sweeping, overarching, this is what this is what ducks are doing.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_02: But it it does give us some insight.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: And there I I s there are still there's still some buzz in the waterfowl science community that doesn't put as much value in in some of this wintertime banning effort, which I I don't understand.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um if if these guys, the Cohen's, the Calicuts, the Osborne's, if they weren't doing this work, uh we we would be really short on data, um just based on what's going on with funding cuts that the federal government has put in place.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_02: The Canada uh Canadian Wildlife Service doesn't band as many as they used to.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_02: Uh they've shut down banding stations because where they built them, the ducks aren't there anymore.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so we should be thankful that these guys are are going out hustling up the funds to to do these projects and then giving us some insight.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's it is different, it is different data to collect on a duck you you ban in the winter time and then seeing what they do.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it's kind of the inverse of what what waterfowl science did forever because it was always banded on the breeding grounds, spring and summer, and then see what they do.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: Uh this is kind of the inverse of that, but it it doesn't it doesn't devalue the information because there's not a lot else out there otherwise.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_02: So um yeah, I think the waterfowl science community has some some work to do on um kind of turning the corner as well and being being more collaborative and supportive of each other's research, uh, but it definitely has gotten a lot better.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_02: Uh we're we're privy uh uh enough to those conversations and and how that world functions and and know that to be true, that there's still some there's still some pause going on and some silo type work uh versus uh being more collaborative and and all that.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_02: And and that's not to say they all need to get on the same page about things because they're that's okay.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_02: That's that's supposed to be uh uh an effect of science that you you know you have, and you see that in things, there's different ways to cure cancer uh that that different doctors feel uh is the way to go.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_02: So that's not any different than any other uh science um endeavor or or pursuit.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: So uh yeah, I like to see that that waterfowl science community continue to find ways to collaborate too.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: And uh the more sharing, I think the more we'll we'll figure out what's what's really going on.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_02: Because the big mystery out there right now is what is happening to mallard hens.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_02: Um mainly the spring and summer.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and we know there's there is nest predation and there's ag equipment and things like that, but it but it's at the volume where it's getting to be concerning, and there's some folks that really want to figure it out.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so I hope I hope we find ways to do that sooner than later.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_03: For sure.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, that's an interesting point on banding data from U.S.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_03: fish and wildlife, or let's call it a breeding ground banding.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's it's so in decline, significantly in decline compared to where it was.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_03: Um, early on, again, with a lot of these transmitter studies, you had some of these guys that were, you know, shunned at flyway meetings.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, just totally dismissed in their efforts to to ban and research.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_03: So it kind of hurts me when some some people talk about, oh, the science says this, and you know, the scientists all say this.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_03: No, but they don't they don't all agree.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not saying they're all right or that any of them in particular are wrong, but they don't all agree and they don't also value everyone's research the same.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_03: I'll try to say that delicately.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_03: That's a good way to say it.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_03: So it's not unanimous, right?
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_03: But but we we're we're fed that uh maybe by peers, not necessarily the science community, but you know, you hear those talking points all the time, like, oh well, you know, harvest doesn't matter.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_03: Well, that's a pretty big statement.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_03: You care to back that one up.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um but that's what you know that's what kind of concerns me because again, you you look at US Ballife, there the reduction in banning there, and you take a species like Whitefronts that we don't fly surveys for anymore, it's all based on Lincoln Peterson estimates.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_03: Well, and that's you know, banding data drives that.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_03: Well, if we're not banning them and we're not getting recoveries, then how are we up to date on that data?
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um and the same for this conversation about you know the ebbs and flows you mentioned earlier, you know, you you're starting to hear this, you know, oh, we'll never reach that point again, which you know I don't know if we're gonna shift what we actually manage for our target goal as far as the B pop with mallards.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_03: But I for one am not really willing to just accept this new norm.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, will we reach it again?
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know that we will, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_03: So the the banning stuff really does matter.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um and I don't know how we raise awareness about that.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't just mean, you know, telemetry and winter studies, but like we need to be banning a lot more ducks and geese than what we are currently.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um and then again, I think it's important that all hunters kind of understand that science community um and understand that it's people with emotions and opinions and egos and everything else, too.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, they're no different than hunters, so weigh all that when you when you cite and quote.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_03: And and that's I'm not calling anyone's research into question.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_03: I just don't think it's as cut and dry as two plus two is four.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_02: Uh that's correct.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_02: Uh because it's not.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_02: We're we're using small chunks of data to extrapolate to give us a big picture the you know status of where things are, whether it's population, whether it's ponds, whether it's harvest.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_02: And um that that's that's a great point.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_02: We need need more bands out there um because we rely so heavily on them.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_02: Uh almost all goose species are managed that way.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: Uh there's some there's some certain ones that they still do some breeding surveys, they do some, you know, uh fall surveys and get a count.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um but most of them are done by Leakin Peterson, including speckle bellies and snow geese.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um so you're you're having to extrapolate data out of band returns, and and you know, you hear people talk about not turning in the band data because they're afraid it's gonna, you know, skew, skew harvest and get their limits changed.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think there's I can't believe that there's very many people do that.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, who doesn't want to know the data behind that that that bird uh that that you have harvested and and it has a band on it?
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, band's pretty exciting deal.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so uh I can't imagine there's a lot of people doing that.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_02: But now, but we know there's people that fudge the the hip survey and the misunderstanding around that.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_02: We we talked about it a little bit before the show because it was it was kind of interesting.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_02: It was buried in the the harvest uh report that also came out the same time as the bee pop and may pond.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_02: So you got the population status report that came out, and then there's a separate report that comes out that is the uh harvest data and and hunter activity data is all in this this other report.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_02: But everybody kind of skips and goes straight to the numbers to see.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_02: And we talked a little bit about the numbers where Arkansas's Mallard Harvest was and Missouri's and Louisiana's last on the last show.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um and um that's what everybody kind of skips to, and and and now that they've changed how they calculate harvest, which was because they've they have modified the formula because they believe they were underestimating harvest up until 2024-25 season.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_02: So, so two years ago, they they changed it.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_02: That's why like if you just look at Arkansas, our our harvest shot way up, but all the hunters are going, I didn't my season was terrible.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_02: How how could our harvest gone up that much?
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_02: Well, they changed they changed the math uh because they felt like they were underestimating harvest.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_02: And it kind of factored in some to the pentail, you know, switching from one to three and things like that.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_02: So they got a new new way.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_02: So you can't really go apples to apples on harvest prior to 2024-25 season.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_02: You can from that season and 25-26 and now going forward, because that's a that's a math equation that's the same.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_02: But I'd like to see them go back if they if they can do it, it'd be great for them to take the current formula and go plug in the numbers from those, say the last 10 years, and okay, let's see where we land there.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_02: Otherwise, we've only got two years worth of harvest data that means anything.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_02: If that if that kind of makes sense.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_02: But but go go circling back to on this harvest stuff.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_02: There was a paragraph or two buried in that big report about hunter harvest and hunter activity that showed just how few people are doing the surveys when asked.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, we talked about it uh a little bit, like I said before we were hit record.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of people just think it's the hip, what they put on the hip survey, that's how they figure out how many ducks and geese are being killed, or galanoles or dove, or whatever, you know, whatever's on what else is on the whatever else is on the survey.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_02: But that's not how it works.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_02: All that does is it it kind of puts you in a uh, it registers you to be in this big pool, and they take a certain percentage out of each one and they invite them to do an additional survey, whether it is a a hunter log type survey, or they pick you to do the part survey, you know, the wing bee, where you you gotta clip off a wing and you gotta put it in an envelope and you gotta mail it in.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_02: Well, so they had some numbers in there of how few people participate in that.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_02: So, okay, keep in mind we have one last year we had 1.2 million active duck hunters, according to the U.S.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_02: Fish and Wildlife Service.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_02: So out of 1.2 million, they invited 277,000 to do the harvest surveys.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_02: So that that took them out of the pool of hip people and put them into this this pool to do uh they were invited to do these additional surveys.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_02: Out of the 277,000, only 15% of that participated.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_02: Well, so that's a that's around 41,000 people.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_02: So you got 41,000 people doing these harvest surveys, and that number is supposed to be extrapolated out to say this is how many ducks and geese we're killing.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_03: So how do you how do you do your part?
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_03: You say yes.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, yeah, and and do it.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_02: Uh do it.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_02: It you're probably hurting us.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_02: People that don't do it thinking they're gonna if they if I tell them what I really killed, it's gonna mess up the limits.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_02: Well, no, you have to remember how many duck hunters there are that don't kill a whole lot of ducks.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so you're if you're you know the greatest thing that ever happened to duck hunting and and the big the biggest killer on the block, your number by itself is not gonna influence anything.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_03: So well to participate.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_03: Even if that's you, if you're worried that you're gonna if you're gonna break the curve, maybe that's all the more reason you should do it.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I I'm with you.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think that's gonna do it, but if you're killing that many ducks, then yeah, we need to know about it.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_03: You're not gonna get in trouble, and you you should have the wherewithal or the frame of mind to think, you know, if you know I keep saying harvest doesn't matter, but man, if they knew the truth, they might think differently.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_03: Well then tell them the truth.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um that goes for everybody.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, like you go to fill out your hip and you're like, yeah, less than 50, you know, like we don't take it very serious.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_03: I I don't know that I take it as serious as I should.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_03: And I'll be honest, I'm I'm doing the parts collection this year.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_03: I think this is the third time that I've been asked, and I've declined every other time.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_03: Now, I'll explain my logic.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_03: Um, man, I'm a good logic, but I felt like as a guide, as someone who's going, that maybe that wouldn't be the purest data uh just because of how and why I hunt, you know, some of those days.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_03: But then it finally kind of occurred to me like, no, they're that's part of it.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_03: You know, they're there are guys and outfitters all across the country.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_03: So I need to do my part and need to participate in this.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm doing it this year.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_03: So I guess I'm maybe preaching the choir, talking to you and I.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, I mean that's a small role you can play.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_03: You you can agree to do it, and you can take if nothing else, take hip seriously.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_02: Well, uh yeah, and I'm glad you're doing it because I think I think there is a gaping hole in the data accounting for modern day outfitting.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_02: And the reason I say that is there are so many people struggling to to kill ducks at their home base.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_02: So if they lease a small farm or they own, you know, some ground or whatever, and uh their seasons are struggling, so they're they're willing to pay to go go hunt with an outfitter.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_02: Or or or and or people have disposable income modern day to go travel a lot to hunt.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so they'll book hunts with outfitters and go.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_02: Well, they'll they'll kill more ducks in a weekend with an outfitter than they may kill their entire season back home.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_02: So if if that data is missing out of all that, we're we're way off on outfit on harvest data.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because we've we've all seen the explosion of outfitters.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_02: Now, now we don't have an explosion of outfitters in a in a mature duck hunting state like Arkansas.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know, our our our ground is all spoken for.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, we've we've talked about in the show before, you can't go knock on a door and get permission to go hunt.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, it just doesn't work the way it does in other states.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_02: But this whole outfitting thing in states like Kansas or the panhandle of Texas or Oklahoma, um it's it is it is truly exploded.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_02: Not that there were never outfitters, because there were.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_02: There's been there's been some operators that have been around a long time.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_02: But now you're seeing all these newish ones in the last five years, it just an explosion.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I and I really wonder if harvest data is uh adjusted for that.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_02: And if guys that are doing uh maybe they don't do the harvest log survey because when they went on these hunts with an outfitter, they don't they don't know what they shot.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the the outfitters goes and picks them up, or the or the dog, their dog goes and picks it up, that the guide's dog, and it just gets put into a pile.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_02: Y'all take a picture and then you you fill out on a piece of paper real quick what you shot because somebody told you that's what you shot.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_02: You're not sitting there going, like on a you know, a hunt I go with, say, my son and and maybe a buddy and his son.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_02: We know exactly who shot what because it's it's not it's uh a little more controlled chaos than say a a lot of guided hunts are.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and this is not a reflection on all guides either, because some of them do do it.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: you know, buy the book and everybody's ducks sit right in front of them and and all that.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_02: But a lot of it's not.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of it is pile, break them up into limits, let's take a picture, and then we'll take care of you know what's shot and process them and everything else.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_02: And you may never see them again.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_02: So there may be an element of people that don't even do the survey because they don't really remember know or remember what they what they harvested.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um so it's I I just feel like I don't know or I wonder if things have been adjusted to account for today today's style of duck hunting.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_02: People traveling and people uh doing a lot of hunting with outfitters.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um have we have we adjusted to account for that?
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_02: Because this the the current that I mean today 26-27 duck season is not the same as even five years ago to me in how we hunt ducks and how people pursue them outside of their home base.
• 45:02
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• 45:07
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• 46:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah and those are great points particularly when you talk about harvest in a guided situation.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_03: And some of that was you know kind of my hesitancy to do the parts collection because as hard as we try the way we run things to identify every bird and who killed it, you know, you've got four clients and a guide and you know sometimes it's tough to say without a doubt yes you killed that duck.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_03: So there is some uh discrepancy involved there.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_03: And you know we we start the day with individual totes for every individual and you know we we assign ducks as they come in and we try our best to interpret who actually killed it.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_03: But again there's there's always you know there's some birds that are just hard to tell who fired that exact shot.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_03: And so that was kind of my reasoning to think man I don't know maybe maybe my data would skew that but but I think it's actually maybe more valuable now than ever because it is some of the reality there.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_03: And I would agree wholeheartedly you know I don't think I don't think harvest today accounts for that.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_03: Do you know I'm gonna put you on the spot here do you know off the top of your head what the harvest you know per day was for hunters in Arkansas last year?
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_03: No, but I might be able to figure it out while we're talking okay if you come across that number let me know because I I would without knowing it I would venture to guess that our clients are above that average with ease.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_03: So say it again mallards are or ducks we can just go with ducks.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_03: All right keep talking I I would I would venture to guess that we're above that average um so you know how are we how do we as an outfitter fit into that number and I'm sure we fit in somewhere but again it all comes back to you know band recovery shape harvest data you know hip and selection and all that stuff you know our our willingness to be to come out of our silo and share information drives this ship.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_03: So you know again that's part of the reason you know I know people listen to us and they're like oh they're wanting you know shorter season like no you and I are not advocating for a shorter season.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not advocating for reduced limits.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_03: I just want good information and I want to make good decisions.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I know we're doing the best we can I know the guys that are working on it are doing a great job with it.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_03: But you know again to the point that uh one of the guys on that DU show made what we thought we knew 20 years ago we didn't know and what we think we know today we probably still don't know.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_03: So it's you know it's evolving and we have to accept that um we have to accept that it's evolving we also as hunters have to accept our role in this process with band recoveries all you know all these things we're talking about you you have to know that you have a role in this and it matters um even outfitters maybe maybe a more important role with outfitters and you know as we talk about we mentioned uh Lee was talking texting us before about gifting of birds we talk about outfitting we talk about all these things I'm not sure that I would want to see a mandatory harvest log for outfitters I'm not sure that I'm opposed to it but it kind of starts sounding like a firearm registry you know it it strikes me as a little I don't know I I don't want to get into a position where I'm having to do a lot of record keeping for the government government so they can crawl up my backside because you know they think we're killing too many ducks.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_03: But it would be great to have that information.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_03: So that's you know that's the question.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_03: How do you get that information without using it against somebody?
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_03: And I think you know I wonder is that why people are kind of cagey when it comes to answering these questions uh you know I've I've got some friends of the show in mind that would probably say yeah I'm not gonna tell them that I killed this many ducks because then they're gonna come try to write me a ticket.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_03: Certainly not going to tell them where we killed those ducks either.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_03: So maybe that lack of trust kind of lends itself to hunters being dishonest about things.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know how you get past that.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_03: Well I don't either natural distrust of your government there.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah I and I I am 1,000% certain that if you required outfitters to log this stuff that there they would fudge it.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_02: There would be an element that would fudge it.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_02: There there'd be some that would shoot it straight and and do it correct but I think a majority would not report correctly um yeah and I can't say I as much as I'm sitting there saying you know do the right thing and be honest I I can't say I blame them either because man it just seems like it would come back to bite you in the ass.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah yeah yeah well I think you made a really good point about uh you know putting some of the uh the onus back on the hunter because you know another part of that harvest data that we collect is the parts survey and out of all that only 13,000 were asked to do that and only 32% participated.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_02: So I mean you're talking about 4,000 people that are you know doing even the parts thing.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_02: Now I I get it it's a pain in the ass to do.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_03: That's crazy that that percentage is higher though.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah yeah because that's the one that requires a lot of effort I mean some effort anyway.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so you know I I I I would think if I think it's higher here's why I think it's higher if somebody does get invited to do that it's such a there's such a novelty to it that they kind of jump like I got a great example my son my younger son was probably 16 or 17 maybe he might have even been a little bit younger but he got pulled to do that and he was all about it.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_02: I mean ate up with wanting to do it do it by the book the whole deal where you know keeping a log is that's kind of a mundane task and a lot of people do it anyway and like you know this isn't anything about the the novelty of clipping wings and putting them in this manila envelope and mailing it in and it's kind of the same with the duck DNA thing going on now.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's cool to get picked by that thing and so you're like all about it.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_02: I mean I'm gonna right I'm gonna snip these tongues I'm gonna try to mix up I'm not gonna do them all from the same hunt I'm gonna do it from different hunts or different spots and and see what you know see what I get back.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think that's probably why that's a little higher um at least I want to think so but uh but still uh you know to get get that many people doing it it's it's that that's on us that's on us as the hunter only we're only 4,000 people are providing parts and uh and and another thing that they noted in there this was the smallest number of parts they've ever had submitted since starting the Wing B survey.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_02: Ooh and only 41% of the stuff that was turned in was for desired target species.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_02: Now I don't know what desired target species are I've asked the question I haven't gotten an answer yet from the U.S.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_02: Fish and wildlife service but I've asked we as hunters are not given waterfowl science enough data to you know get better output um and that that everybody wants to blame the formulas and AHM and the and the the science man we're we're just as much at fault by by not providing them good data.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_03: That's right it's only as good as the information that goes in and by the way thank you for making me feel exactly average uh if there if one out of three people do it I guess I've been asked three times I I fit that mold pretty well today so appreciate that yeah well I've got I've got your number on the the ducks per day uh 2.61 oh yeah yeah we're easily above that that's uh that's a yeah per day um there that that's how many you know taking how many days were hunted divided by the total of um ducks killed that that's not mallards that's ducks yeah so I I'm gonna go ahead and take a shot here um and this is not directed at anybody but it is a shot so when you hear the term or you hear the phrase harvest doesn't matter that that's why I I don't think it's that we aren't killing enough that it would matter.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's that we can't kill enough to make it matter if that makes sense.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe I'll try to define that they could raise the limit to a hundred and I don't think that number would change significantly yes there are people that are killing more ducks so you'd see some uptick but basically harvest is so bad right now that it's just insignificant.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_03: And that's not me standing on the whole harvest doesn't matter because I do think there's a sliding scale of who what when that stuff starts to matter but I think we need to realize that like we are killing so few ducks like that's how bad it is right now.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_03: Now how do we fix that?
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_03: We fix that through good information, good data.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um hopefully that's not sending the wrong message but I you know I think you have to recognize you know two point six ducks per day is that's not much.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 55:40
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• 56:11
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• 56:17
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• 56:24
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• 56:37
  SPEAKER_02: Go check it out man from rain gear sun shirts you name it uh even fishing waiters their line has expanded greatly and definitely deserves checking out you know it's interesting data just to sit and sit through and look uh because uh you know I'm sitting here staring at the duck duck hunter seasonal harvest and it goes back to 99 because that's when they they made changes significantly impacted the numbers at that time and and have run it through this past season and you know we've had we've had uh you know 99 and 2000 this is ducks this isn't just mallards but Arkansas they were you know 25.4 in 99 uh per hunter 22.2 in 2000 well 2025 under the new math it was 19.6 so you look at that and go well I mean these duck seasons aren't good but this is saying this is what this is above I just glancing at it it's probably it's in the ballpark of average probably because the high point according to this math was 26.8 in 2010 and then 99 would have been second to that the lowest I see is uh 2022 12.6 ducks for you know average ducks per for entire season per hunter so uh but the the asterisk to that is uh starting in 2024 the math got different so you really can't go back and compare because uh that's why I would like to see them go back and take the new formula and take all these past years and have them compute out and see where we stack up because saying last year went 19.6 was man that's not too bad compared to the to the going back to 99 but the math is different so it's hard to say um it's and the math should evolve I mean that is that is part of the adaptiveness of AHM adaptive harvest management is the is the math changes and you know sometimes it scratch makes you scratch your head as to you know why did the matrix change so much?
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_02: Well the I mean the data changes and and causes that shift and it it just a lot so much goes into this it's it's um it just makes for interesting analysis but but now you're almost totally resetting when it comes to harvest because it changed in 2024.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah you know and so you see a lot of we've done it here we've posted things you know showing trends and highlighting trends and it you know it throws off that trend right like if you don't put an asterisk if you don't explain that if you just throw that out there on social media and you and you see a lot of that especially those that are that are blaming corn for this that or the other they'll post post these craps we've got access to them now right that's one of the great things about the age we live in uh it's also a bad thing too but information is good and we need to process it but you throw those out there and you don't understand why that number jumped when it did then it's you know just a little can be misconstrued easily.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_02: It can it can and and you can work it and angle it and and do all kinds of things I mean what's the I think it was Mark Twain maybe it wasn't but it was yeah lies damn lies and statistics yeah yeah so um yeah there's there's that too but but that's the thing it you know we it it this goes all the way back to us talking about banding if we're relying on banding which we we as hunters don't have any con influence on the number of birds that get banded other than if you get asked to uh fund a banding project like you know there's some solicitations here let's say when Dr.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_02: Osborne is is working up uh a banding effort uh and if you have a spot that you know has some ducks and and and thinks it's a volume that he could get some banding uh worthwhile banning uh implementation done you know you help in in the assistance of funding that that effort that's just that's just how it works uh and then he has other pockets of money too uh I'm sure Cohen and and Mississippi State Calicut they are probably have the same but we don't have a lot of influence how many get get banded we do have influence over the participation of these surveys and with the pitiful participation numbers that I just read you take banding data and these harvest survey and the wingbean survey and that's how they're figuring out how many ducks we're shooting if we don't do our part it it is it's it's not accurate.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_02: And so how could you make the statement that harvest doesn't matter when this data it may be or it's probably not as good as it could be and that's because we as hunters don't give them enough to work with and so they gotta they gotta those the waterfowl scientists have to extrapolate and you know they have confidence in those numbers some do at least um we we've seen enough obviously enough posts about this and you obviously have the ones that believe that harvest doesn't matter but when you start looking at how poorly we as duck hunters are participating in the things they ask us to do to give them good data man it makes you wonder.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_02: And and then and then if for still on top of that for them to change the math on harvest data in 2024 because they previously thought they were underestimating yeah I mean harvest could play a bigger role than we think could uh you know underline bold could versus the blanket harvest doesn't matter anyway well I'm I'm gonna shift gears on you here a little bit um so we got a we our farm got a letter this week regarding a solar project uh and it kind of coincided with a with an email we got from a listener that was concerned about uh solar and wind and kind of how that would affect the MAV on top of that Arkansas Game of Fish met this week and they discussed it too so uh I don't really have any significant information but I thought we'd talk about it briefly because I I think it's an interesting very interesting situation.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_03: So if you could touch on the Game of Fish and kind of what was discussed there.
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah it was it was kind of an odd coincidence because yeah this listener um who lives in Arkansas County um and there is a large solar project going in south of Stuttgart so if you're familiar with the uh the you know the landscape of of the Grand Prairie in Arkansas that you've got Stuttgart and then the next biggest town going south is Dwit.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_02: Well just south of town uh just south of Stuttgart is a is a pretty sizable solar project going in.
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_02: So it in this area the the fields are mostly dry but it is a definite flyway funnel point for speckle bellies.
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_02: I mean like a bunch of them uh between what is highway 165 and Almyra and and that's where this solar farm is going in.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_02: So people are like what what is this going to do to to those birds because the bean fields and dry rice fields that they were used to sitting in are about to be gone and there's going to be panels everywhere.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_02: And you see you've seen them pop up all over the place.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_02: So this listener makes that drive every day because he works in Stuttgart lives in DeWitt and so he emailed us and so I had some back and forth on some discussions you know we've had on on some of these projects and lo and behold the game and fish was meeting that day and they had three different presentations at their commissioner meeting on this very topic so they also they taught more they had two different presentations more focused on on wind uh because there are some projects that are grandfathered in and being stood up um right in the heart of you know the the Delta uh one of them around uh England Arkansas uh and then uh two more closer to the Mississippi River and in you know kind of in far east Arkansas uh but they are uh I guess what I was uh glad to see and I knew that the Osborne lab uh and the Snowden Waterfowl Center for Excellence was working on some studies in conjunction with Ducks Unlimited on when what okay we don't know much about this but we but we got to find out more before these things are all over the over all over the Delta and ducks and geese have changed what they do.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_02: So they're hustling to get this research done but now the Gaming Fish has jumped in uh Louisiana uh Department of Wildlife and Fisheries has jumped in Mississippi's uh equivalent to the Arkansas Gaming Fish has jumped in Ducks Unlimited has jumped in Delta waterfowl is in there some but they're all uh kind of collaborating To get a lot of research done really fast on what kind of impact this is going to have so they can go to the legislators in their particular states and maybe put the brakes on this or whatever the next step would be before this becomes such a deal, we can't back out of it.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_02: And uh whether most people know or not, you know, a lot of this was funded during the Biden administration.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_02: That's why these projects that are grandfathered in are are being allowed to continue.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_02: Well, the Trump administration cut all that funding.
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_02: So that's why you're not gonna see anything new, uh, to my understanding.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_02: This is this is how it works.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_02: So these are projects that were funded during the Biden administration that are just now getting going.
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_02: But they've, I mean, there's numerous studies.
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, this isn't like one study and figure this out, and some of them are are gonna move faster than others.
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_02: I saw one of them wasn't gonna be completed until 2031.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's five years from now.
• 1:06:55
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but you gotta you gotta have research before you can go and say this is gonna, we can't let this continue in this part of our state because it's gonna have this impact on wildlife.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_02: And um it was pretty interesting.
• 1:07:10
  SPEAKER_02: So they had they had some had uh two people from the game of fish do the first presentation.
• 1:07:15
  SPEAKER_02: They had another guy do a presentation on solar, and then they had a guy from Ducks Unlimited do another presentation on waterfowl and wind energy.
• 1:07:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so uh I think I don't know how much play that's gonna get either social media or with the with mainstream media, but I thought it was worth us bringing up to let people know that that they're they're working on it because it's gonna be a thing.
• 1:07:38
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and we're gonna see these these these wind projects that have been grandfathered in, we're gonna see them pop up on the landscape.
• 1:07:45
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and and you're gonna be going, what, what's going on?
• 1:07:48
  SPEAKER_02: And these are two, these are three that they couldn't stop uh because of because of where we are, but maybe that'll be the only three or four that get get off the ground before uh they're able to put the brakes on it.
• 1:08:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I'm gonna assume that that was part of the Inflation Reduction Act, and I mean I could be wrong about that, but I know a lot of that funding got got cut or actually frozen um you know early into this year.
• 1:08:14
  SPEAKER_03: And what's interesting is that it, you know, when they when they froze that IRA money, it stopped a lot of conservation projects.
• 1:08:21
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, a lot of companies that were involved in conservation in conjunction or alongside of uh NRCS, WRE work, uh struggled for budgets and is still struggling because of that freeze.
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_03: So it's interesting that that those somehow made it through.
• 1:08:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um that's a little concerning.
• 1:08:40
  SPEAKER_03: And and what else is concerning for me, and I think we should all be aware of, you know, this stuff is coming along in a time where you know small farmers and and large ag are kind of competing, and it could be intriguing to see what what they have, and I say they, alternative energy has to offer in terms of financial benefit, right?
• 1:09:04
  SPEAKER_03: Because you've got a lot of landowners who are carrying debt, they're having trouble servicing that debt with their current business model, be it AG.
• 1:09:13
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, good reference point there.
• 1:09:15
  SPEAKER_03: The first load of farm fuel that I ever purchased was 74 cents a gallon.
• 1:09:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and the last that I heard this year, maybe last week, was like 560.
• 1:09:28
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 1:09:29
  SPEAKER_03: So 750% increase.
• 1:09:31
  SPEAKER_03: And I can go ahead and tell you that commodity prices have not increased 750% in that time frame.
• 1:09:37
  SPEAKER_03: So it is brutal to be a farmer right now.
• 1:09:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um, which in turn makes it tough on a landowner.
• 1:09:44
  SPEAKER_03: If if they're not one of the same, if they are separate parties, it's just it's a very tough climate.
• 1:09:51
  SPEAKER_03: And it concerns me that these things are coming along right when somebody may be looking for a steady source of income that does not involve the extremes that we've seen in the other market.
• 1:10:02
  SPEAKER_03: So um, yeah, we need we need data on it, we need information on it, and we don't need it years from now.
• 1:10:09
  SPEAKER_03: We need it soon.
• 1:10:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because it is, you know, it's alarming.
• 1:10:13
  SPEAKER_03: You you look at just what they proposed on us was like 1,100 acres, and it is our best 1,100 acres when it comes to waterfowl.
• 1:10:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um so what would that look like if we decided to go that route to lock that up in solar panels?
• 1:10:29
  SPEAKER_03: I know what it would mean for us.
• 1:10:31
  SPEAKER_03: We wouldn't hunt it.
• 1:10:32
  SPEAKER_03: What would that mean for everybody around us, too?
• 1:10:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:10:35
  SPEAKER_03: So I I think this stuff is serious and it merits some very aggressive evaluation.
• 1:10:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:10:43
  SPEAKER_02: Well, uh it it does.
• 1:10:45
  SPEAKER_02: And the companies that are behind these, or at least a couple of them that are behind these projects uh on the wind side are a couple of them are participating in in all these studies that are about to happen.
• 1:10:57
  SPEAKER_02: And uh, I think one of them was doing their own independent study.
• 1:11:01
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, whether that's a cursory, uh yeah, we'll we'll look at it.
• 1:11:06
  SPEAKER_02: Uh but we're still putting up these wind turbines.
• 1:11:08
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, it's that kind of deal or not, you know, it's a feel-good community.
• 1:11:13
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 1:11:13
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody loved the wind company because they, you know, they they bring, you know, all kinds of financial incentives.
• 1:11:19
  SPEAKER_02: There's in the the reason that guy reached out, the listener list uh listener reached out to us is they're they're gonna put one uh uh east of Dwitt, closer to the White River, but it means a ton of money for their schools um because of the influx of of benefits that come along with these projects.
• 1:11:36
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, it's it's juggling this fine line.
• 1:11:42
  SPEAKER_02: You got the Delta, which is one of the poorest parts of the in the country, and then you've got this this new it's a new money uh with an influx of capital for schools and and things like that, which which are I mean, most of them are on the ropes anyway.
• 1:11:57
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a it's a really interesting dynamic that's gonna that's gonna really take some flushing out and figure out uh if these things are good or bad.
• 1:12:08
  SPEAKER_02: Because you you know, if you you you know slide through social media, you'll see pictures of them out in in more wind-friendly states, uh, say like the panhandle of Texas.
• 1:12:20
  SPEAKER_02: And and the the guys will be hunting and the geese will be coming in, and and in the background, there's these huge wind turbines.
• 1:12:27
  SPEAKER_02: So I mean, I mean, does it impact them or not?
• 1:12:30
  SPEAKER_02: I gotta think on some level it does.
• 1:12:32
  SPEAKER_02: But you're also taking production ground out of service.
• 1:12:37
  SPEAKER_02: So are as you alluded to a minute ago, if you put all those solar panels in on 1,100 yards, you're gonna change the flight pattern of ducks in that in your neighborhood.
• 1:12:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:12:47
  SPEAKER_02: And you're not gonna be the only one that's gonna feel it.
• 1:12:49
  SPEAKER_02: Now you you you you probably have your steady income, like you talked about, but you could really impact the the neighborhood uh as far as what ducks do and don't do, or or geese or whatever it is.
• 1:13:00
  SPEAKER_02: So man, I I I wish uh we could all wish that they would have started these studies five years ago so we wouldn't wouldn't be flying blind because we we are right now.
• 1:13:11
  SPEAKER_02: We don't know if they impact them or not, because there's there's no research in this part of the world about it.
• 1:13:16
  SPEAKER_02: So they're really scrambling.
• 1:13:18
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I they even alluded to some studies that have been done in Europe.
• 1:13:22
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I mean, yeah, they've got waterfowl in Europe, but not like we have in the Delta.
• 1:13:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so it's a mad scramble, and it, but it is encouraging that all the people that want to say, well, DU doesn't do anything for us down here, or Delta Waterfowl doesn't do anything us down here, the gaming fish sucks and all this.
• 1:13:41
  SPEAKER_02: Well, yeah, they're trying as fast as they can to figure this out.
• 1:13:45
  SPEAKER_02: And and and I guarantee you, if you told somebody that was one of those distract detractors that that these projects were even popping up or had the potential, you know, the future of what this impact could have, they probably wouldn't know what you were talking about unless they were driving around, say where the the active one is in when there is there's one stood up in Wynn, Arkansas.
• 1:14:08
  SPEAKER_02: So you probably don't even know this is going on.
• 1:14:11
  SPEAKER_02: And and these organizations are working on our behalf to find out whether these things are going to impact the sport that we love.
• 1:14:17
  SPEAKER_02: So uh we've said it a you know a dozen times on here.
• 1:14:21
  SPEAKER_02: We don't love everything they do, don't agree with everything they do, but but we're definitely not in the camp that they don't do anything for us because this is a prime example of of them putting uh both feet in to hustle to find out what is the impact of these things before it before it's too late.
• 1:14:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um and it seems like in waterfowl we do a lot of things after it's too late.
• 1:14:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we have a pretty good history of being reactionary.
• 1:14:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um so I I'm gonna go out here at the risk of sounding like a tree hugging hippie.
• 1:14:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um I am not pro alternative energy.
• 1:14:56
  SPEAKER_03: I I will say I I guess wind is probably less impactful than solar.
• 1:15:00
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just gonna guess that because you know, you can still farm around turbines.
• 1:15:05
  SPEAKER_03: They can still navigate around them some.
• 1:15:07
  SPEAKER_03: There's obviously some detriment there because I mean I've seen videos of of guys that I guess service those turbines.
• 1:15:12
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's turbines, you know, that has a collection of bands from all the birds that get killed by a wind turbine.
• 1:15:17
  SPEAKER_03: Like, how many birds have to die for that guy to have a band collection from climbing turbines, you know?
• 1:15:22
  SPEAKER_03: But but uh to my my my real point here is I don't know how much of this stuff is is being funded through the government.
• 1:15:31
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sure with the previous administration who was all in on alternative, I'm sure there was a lot of funding.
• 1:15:36
  SPEAKER_03: I don't understand why we are not dumping more funding into restoration projects because when we look at flooding, crop insurance, and when I say flooding first, I mean homes and towns, you know, from from drainage issues, and then crop insurance from failed crops due to flooding.
• 1:15:56
  SPEAKER_03: We look at silt load and nutrient load that we're we're dumping down our streams and rivers and all the way to the Gulf.
• 1:16:02
  SPEAKER_03: When we look at these restoration projects that there is a huge appetite for, but we lack the funding for how much money would we be saving American taxpayers if we were to invest in that infrastructure?
• 1:16:15
  SPEAKER_03: Like let's fix the issues we have versus try to create some other thing.
• 1:16:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I just don't think there's enough appetite for that.
• 1:16:24
  SPEAKER_03: It's you know, not to call out any particular party or individual, but there's definitely uh, you know, more of an appetite to be green, right?
• 1:16:33
  SPEAKER_03: But there's a lot of things that we could do as landowners and farmers if the funding was there that would improve current infrastructure and wouldn't take this massive reworking of the American system.
• 1:16:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:16:44
  SPEAKER_02: No, I think you're right about that.
• 1:16:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's and that's what we got to figure out.
• 1:16:50
  SPEAKER_02: That's gets gets back to the original topic there of kind of pulling on the same end of the rope, uniting, um, because that's what's gonna that's what it's gonna drive these things that that truly matter.
• 1:17:02
  SPEAKER_02: They're the they're the not to saying there there are issues out there that don't matter, but the you know, habitat is the number one, period.
• 1:17:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and have an appetite to do these restoration projects and put things back like they were, that's that's where we got to start.
• 1:17:18
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and hang on to what we have.
• 1:17:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um because if you take, I mean, it doesn't take much.
• 1:17:24
  SPEAKER_02: If you drive from say Little Rock to Jonesboro and you drive past Newport, Arkansas, uh, which is in the White River corridor there, I mean, I can't tell you how many acres are now in solar farms.
• 1:17:38
  SPEAKER_02: Incredible number.
• 1:17:39
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, and and the more and more that piles up, and we lose the the dwindling habitat that we have, the more we lose of it, the more it's gonna concentrate waterfowl, the more it's gonna change flyways, the more it's gonna change all these things to to a point where we're gonna look up one day and go, why, how did we let this happen?
• 1:18:00
  SPEAKER_02: And why do we let it happen?
• 1:18:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, kind of kind of like how we started the show.
• 1:18:07
  SPEAKER_03: How did how did it happen?
• 1:18:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and would be very reactive.
• 1:18:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:18:12
  SPEAKER_03: Um well, I think on that note, I'm gonna take us out of here.
• 1:18:16
  SPEAKER_03: It's been a pretty good episode.
• 1:18:17
  SPEAKER_02: It has been.
• 1:18:18
  SPEAKER_02: Good good talk.
• 1:18:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:18:20
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:18:20
  SPEAKER_03: Appreciate everybody listening.
• 1:18:21
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, you can find us online at the standardsportsman dot com or anywhere you get your podcast.
• 1:18:26
  SPEAKER_03: And remember, Utah, give me two.
• 1:18:29
  SPEAKER_03: That's a good one.