Latest / Unlearning Beautiful / Ep. 32 Unscripted with Kristina & Stefanie: GLP-1s, Body Acceptance, and Choosing Our Path

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Ep. 32 Unscripted with Kristina & Stefanie: GLP-1s, Body Acceptance, and Choosing Our Path · Unlearning Beautiful

• Kristina Bruce: Today's episode is part of a recurring series I'm calling unscripted with Christina and Stephanie. You can hear about how this series was born in the intro of episode 19. Every few months I'm sitting down with my friend and fellow body image coach Stephanie Michelle for an unscripted conversation. We don't plan any topics, we don't prepare any notes, we just show up, hit record, and see what comes out. And it's always a really full and interesting conversation. This time we start talking about GLP1 medications and quickly find ourselves exploring something a lot deeper. Why so many of us struggle to trust ourselves, how both diet culture and even anti-diet culture can become belief systems we cling to, and what it really means to care for our bodies without rigid rules or prescriptions. We don't pretend to have all the answers. Instead, we invite you into the nuance, the questions, the curiosity, and the conversations we think are worth having. Hope you enjoy. Welcome to Unlearning Beautiful, a podcast for women tired of trying to look good enough and ready to feel good from within. I'm your host, Christina Bruce, here to help you let go of the pressure to look right or do it all right, and reconnect with your inner guidance, your natural worth, and what truly makes you feel fulfilled. Because the freedom you're craving was never in how you look. Hey. How are you going? It's good. It's good to talk with you again. You too. It's been a while. I'm so glad that we're gonna do this because I never know what we're going to say. This is unscripted. We didn't write any notes, but we're just gonna see what comes out because usually really good stuff does. Yeah. We don't even have a topic. We don't. Yeah. I was looking at your like I went to your Instagram and I was like, ⁓ like what's what have you been talking about? What have I what have we both been talking about? Like always talking about similar things. I've been thinking about certain things like coming up in the summertime, but what is your what have you been doing? What what have you been up to? Please, please, please tell me. What's been coming up for you thinking of the summer? I've been, well, it's not, it's not my experience so much, but like I have been getting a lot of questions about like, I think I don't know if it's If it's something about the summer, more skin clothing changes, more socializing and like more people talking about the GLP one surrounding environment. And like that that has been coming up a ton. So I was looking on Instagram to see if you had gotten any if you had spoken about that at all. Like that that resurgence has been coming up. And I don't know if it's to do with the fact that yeah, maybe there's more like parties, more barbecues, more people in bathing suits and things like that. So maybe there's a new onset insecurity wave. I Yes. I mean, I think that happens every summer. Yeah. True. Like it's not new this summer. But the GLP one piece adds a whole other layer to it. So a hundred percent because I'm I'm actually just finishing up a group right now. And when I was talking with the women, you know, I was doing some applications and we were I was asking them like, well, what is it that's drawing you to want to do this work with other people right now? And every single one of them said GLP ones. Really? They said, I know this person, you know, my sister's on it, ⁓ my coworkers are on it. I'm surrounded by it. It's like everybody around me is shrinking, is talking about it, and it is bringing up a whole bunch of insecurity for me. I'm starting to think, do I need to do it? So they wanted to be around people who aren't doing it. Yeah. Or who are actively working on trying to have this different relationship with their body, not being surrounded by that mindset. Yeah. That is so interesting that that would be like a primary driver and that everybody's t talking about it. I also want to say, like, do you have feelings about GLP ones like point blank, like the people who might be on them who listen to podcasts like this, you know, like who are kind of feeling also the he the wave of that stigma, like how it how hard it is to talk about this, because there's so many different reasons a person might go on it. And it's not about judging that, but I think I I see a lot of social media posts on TikTok in particular that are like talking about the the stigma of being on them. And I always like see it the other way where I'm like, I feel like there's more of a stigma of being off them, like of not choosing to be on them. So it's interesting, like depending on what media you're getting, like what what that's what conversations you're part of, like Who's feeling what? ⁓ 'cause I I know I'm hearing from clients who are mostly choosing not to be on them, who are saying, I feel like the odd man out, but I've also worked with clients who are saying I feel like like the dark horse, you know, like who's who's doing something wrong. It's so in yeah, it's gosh, like what it's great. I did I think I saw a post where you were you were essentially like trying to label every nuance of it. Like can we, you know, like to try to say like, can we see that there's both and here? It like or or it's not just either or. And so I think it really does depend on simply the lens that you're looking through and the perspective that you're coming from. So when they came out, I took more of a hard stance on how I felt about them. And I was very much like, no. Yeah. Like I'm like, I don't like these. Like I don't think this is the answer. And I'm and I'm saying it through a very particular lens. So it's like from some perspectives, to me, hard no. But there's so much nuance to it. And I think, and a lot of people felt like they were being shamed. And I'm like, I, I, I am not shaming you. I am really not. And I I'm not sure I could have said it any more clear. I have nothing but understanding and compassion. Like I get why you're taking it. And it's not about you. It you know, when you're on Instagram and you're kind of making more social commentaries versus individual choices. And so it's This okay, so the my feeling about it is this. If you're taking it because you all you believe that the only way you can feel good about yourself is in a smaller body, then my point is that that will work for you temporarily, but it's no different than a diet. And there's nothing wrong if you want to do that. Right. Like But I can say what it so I think I think where people feel a little bit upset about it, or I don't know if that's the right word, but it's like, I'm gonna call a spade a spade. And you may not like hearing that, but that's the truth of it, which is it will help you feel better while you're thinner. But if you get off of it and you and you're you gain weight again, you're back to square one. And so why I care about saying that is because the work I do. deals exactly with the mental emotional piece around we can clear up what's going on in your mind that the story is being created about your body and why you can't feel okay in it. We're talking about like again, when I say feel okay, that's a huge range. But if I'm talking about related to worth, value, sense of self, like, and I'm always coming usually, I'm usually coming from that angle. Yeah. What I what I'm trying to say is like it doesn't address the root cause. As I'm listening to you, I'm like, yes, 100%. I think if you're on it, well, ⁓ yeah, I can't say a hundred percent, actually. There are those who would go on a medication like this for a short term thing, come off of it. And yes, I think the risk of regaining that weight is extremely high. And then the work hasn't occ actually gotten done. But there are also those who would Say that there is metabolic healing happening, taking those medications. And so like there is a way of getting off them in a different way. Like that the purpose is to is to do cellular repair. I don't know that or not. The second one, too, is like the idea that, like, okay, then I won't come off of them. Like that it would be a full-time medication. And like then, then how do we talk about that in terms of like, is that does that change your mind? Like, is there anything about feeling like if you can control the circumstance that triggers the wound forever. Can you do that? Like is that possible to do? Just as two extra examples. Yeah. No, I mean it and so I think because it's also so new, like we don't have 10 years of data to see what pans out for people. We don't. Yeah. I think why I don't advocate it for myself is because, well just of the nature of the work that I'm doing. Like I'm like, I believe that there's an alternative path. And so I'm offering an alternative path because right now the main path that's being offered is GLP1s. So it's like you can take that. You can go down that path. I really don't believe that there's anything wrong with it. I don't think you can make a mistake. What I'm saying is for those who that's not working for them anymore. They don't want to be taking the drug forever. And yet they're still left with, well, how do I now deal mentally and emotionally with everything that's coming up for me? And my biggest piece is I'm really big into kind of reembodying ourselves and listening to a deeper sense of wisdom within ourselves. Because I believe that there's a deeper intelligence now, not to say that that deeper intelligence won't lead you to a GLP one. Like, I don't know, maybe it could. Yeah. Who's to say? So I don't know. But it's like I just feel that for so long we have lived in the space of I need to manage and control my body, that we've lost trust with it. And so I see GLP ones as another way of doing that. It's just another way to take something outside of ourselves and use it to try to manage and control everything. And what I'm most curious about is what caused the imbalance in the first place. Because that is my biggest thing about the GLP ones is it just like most medications for chronic issues, do not address the root cause because it's a complex mix, mental, emotional, social, environmental, physical, that you cannot prescribe at the top. Like the doctor is not going to be able to handle that. And so they are working with what they have, which we know that Western medicine is heavily reliant on pharmaceutical drugs. That is what they are given, that those are the tools they have. Is there a place for them? I d yes, I believe so. If I have a pounding headache, am I going to take an advil? You better believe it. You know? So but do I believe that the Advil, like the Advil will take the pain away, but it certainly isn't going to address what caused the headache. Right. The headache was probably tension and stress from, you know, like, am I sleeping the wrong way? Like whatever it may be. It still doesn't address the root cause. So I care about for me wanting to go deeper into it to exploring more root cause issues. Yeah. And I also think for some people, A, they're not interested in that. Right. Not saying it's wrong, but they just maybe aren't. Maybe they're like, I don't care if I'm on this drug forever. Sign me up. And I'll say, okay. Just like I'm gonna diet for the rest of my life and I'm okay with that. And I'll say, okay. Like that is your life. That is your path. It is not wrong. And it's not so when I speak about it the way that I do, I say I'm offering a perspective. I'm offering a path for those who don't want to do that other path. Yep. Yes. I think that was well put and like articulates the angle and and the purpose of what you're providing and like your value system on that. I have talked to, I think most people that I have spoken to, because I find it like an interesting question, because I work with a lot of people who binge eat. And I I think it's like a fascinating thing to be like, what what compels somebody not to take this drug when they binge eat? Because it looks like it solves the problem, like really quickly. And some people do choose to. And again, no no right or wrong, but I'm I'm I've been paying attention to those who don't. And one of the biggest responses I've gotten on that, like of why somebody wouldn't choose to do it, is because part of the way that they are understanding their Like journey is a word that's overused and maybe cliche, but like, you know, for more for for lack of a better word, their journey is about figuring out their relationship to their bodies and to themselves, that they they're not looking to fix that. Like they're not looking to fix the body as a way of of fixing it this time. Like the their their purpose is to figure out how to do how to relate to oneself without fixing it. Mm-hmm. And that I think that's also like it's talking about what's the value here. Like what are what are we after? What are we trying to do? And so while I'm sure and I know that those who have a value of like, I'm trying to figure out these root causes, I'm trying to change my core beliefs, would also say, and I would love to be smaller. Like that is also something that I'm sitting with. But my higher value at this time and the purpose of me doing this is actually to repair a relationship I have with my body and with myself if I can do that this way. That though is leading to, I think it is that place, that person, maybe that prototype, right? Who is like, I am working on this, it's important to me to work on these things, to work on myself, to work on that relationship. And I struggle with with that choice because I also at the same time am seeing so many people who are living their best life. on GLP ones around me all the time. And it's tapping into the insecurities that I kind of had to accept in order to value this thing on the left while also grappling with this thing on the right. And I think that place of like doubt sometimes about making that choice or like, yeah, am I doing the wrong thing and making this choice? I think that's coming up more because the more people that we're seeing like being like, this is awesome for me. This has changed the game for me. This feels amazing. Like that can invite a questioning of am I doing did I choose the right value? Is is this what are the pros and cons of this? And that is bringing in a whole bunch of like, was I on the wrong path to begin with? Like is do I have to need to make a complete detour here? Have I been misleading myself even even in the in, you know, as body positivity falls? You know, like, was I wrong to sort of go towards body acceptance in the first place? Is that is that going to make me happy? Is that, you know, is that that's also a Different value. Like, is this about happiness? Is this about what is it about for us? And and so I'd be so curious to the people who are like quote unquote living their best life and feeling amazing. It's like I would want to dig in with them and get specific. Like, what's amazing? What's changed? And are you dealing with any side effects of this? So people, so some people I know who are doing this are just saying, I've actually tried it. I've done the GLP ones. I can't I couldn't handle the side effects. And I mean the fact that there's now products coming out to handle the side effects is kind of crazy. I find I haven't seen them like hair loss and stomach. One was like, ⁓ t these gummies to help with your nausea if you're on the GLP ones. You know, like it's just so so I would I would just be curious because what I find is that there's just so many aspects to it. Like some of it is the insecurity and the societal pressure. So I always tell people that I'm working with like you are courageous and you have a strong soul because it is not easy to essentially you're going against the grain. You're you're doing the the different like like everybody else, not everybody, but most people around us are on this one path and you're like, I'm going to do the opposite. That Takes courage to do. That's not easy. So I always say there's something in your soul. That's why I say it's like a value thing that's calling you forward to have this different experience in this way. I'm not saying that it's better or worse. And that's what I want to be clear about because I really believe that we are all here on our own unique path to experience what we need to experience. So those who are doing GLP ones need to experience that, or else they wouldn't be taking them. And vice versa. So I don't think it's wrong or bad, but I also just want to look at Like what is your goal? What is the true aim here? Because the way that I feel about pharmaceuticals, and I do feel the same about this now with chronic conditions, is that it's a band-aid. It's managing symptoms. It's because the root cause is deeper, it's not as quick. And let's be honest, like life is is tough and sometimes you just don't have the bandwidth to be able to go on a deeper level or know what to do with it. But it's like I care about that. And And so because I'm so focused on the way that our minds affect our experience, I know that the way that we're perceiving ourselves is based on our thinking mind and the stories that our mind is telling us. And so much of how we feel about our body comes from that. And when we can also again have that deeper relationship with ourselves become more embodied, the changes that are needed to be made to feel better in our body. can happen them from that deeper level. So I want to give you an so something you know you're asking, what have I been thinking about lately? Something that's been coming up for me. And I'm probably gonna do a podcast episode on this. So I don't want to get too deep into it right now, but this idea of like, can I make peace with my body and still want to lose weight? And I used to be a hard no on that in the beginning. Like, no, I just don't see how that's possible. Like you just have to accept your body. But I'm seeing it from a bit of a different nuance now. Because I do feel like if people have had an experience of being in a smaller body and they're able to move better and they feel better and now they're in a larger body and they're like, I don't feel as good. Like I I don't think that there's no co that there's no connection there. Right. I just the way that I perceive it as that focusing on managing the weight is the same as trying to deal with the symptoms. So we need to get to the root. We get to go underneath and find out what happened, what's going on? Like, what were you doing that has changed from when you were in that smaller body and feeling good to now? Now a lot of it is most people are like, well, I was dieting and exercising and now I'm not doing that anymore. And and so they just haven't yet had the experience of, well, how do I? How do I care for my body now without a diet and exercise mindset, which is the biggest, I think, piece of this journey. So I've so I'm like, and it's about, I talk a lot about where we're resisting. So we're resisting what is. And so when we're in resistance to the fact that our bodies are bigger or not feeling okay right now, we will experience suffering with that. You but you can actually be okay with how we can remove the layer of mental emotional suffering. when we let go of the resistance to how it is now and a hundred percent still take action towards I need to do things to feel lighter in my body. Yes. I have had that the same trajectory of like the arc of evolution on those thoughts. Cause I think, well, probably also because binge eating is so sensitive to pursuits of weight loss and like can be like the can come back with a vengeance when we when there is weight loss in discussion even sometimes like That's that there's a, I think there's a certain amount of time probably spent in recovery, like to be able to even talk about things like this. But there is like a relationship between, I think, when I talk about recovery, I talk about it from the food point of view, but also the body image point of view, like where having a bigger body is the sum result of recovery at times and giving up dieting and all this stuff. And then can also lead to a place of like. I am now in a like more almost like the opposite side of trauma. Like instead of hyper controlling everything, I feel like I have zero control. I have no control. And I'm in despair now because I feel like I have to accept. And I did see you on Instagram write about this acceptance piece. Like, what is acceptance? And acceptance when it feels like resignation, like I'm not allowed to feel like I can't be embodied in my body because I'm not comfortable. I can't move as much. Like I had a client who once like she had trouble like Cleaning herself, you know, because and and and she was also in a place of like high permissive eating because that was the way that she had recovered. And so it feels like a tr this trade-off of like, I have no agency in my body. I have no, I I don't know what it means to take care of my body except if that's restriction and control. Yeah. And so I feel like I have to choose between these two things. And that distinction is something I'm I'm also very passionate about. About like it is a careful road. To talk about taking care of our bodies, because the only way we know how to take talk about it is through like how it looks, how it ends up making you look. And and that dominant narrative is invasive and corrupt. It corrupts everything else. It takes your agency away. So how do we create conversations about taking care of oneself, feeling good in your body, if in fact your body is amenable to weight loss? Like if that's something that doesn't threaten it, like in a way that's how do we talk about that differently? Like, and I don't even know sometimes that we can conceptualize that differently, except to talk about it through behaviors and things. But I just, it's so tricky. It's so hard to hear. And I think with the GLP ones in play, it it it quickly becomes like the inroad. And it's like here we are again, where we're talking again about managing the symptom instead of figuring out how what taking care of means, you know, and not allowing that to come in through experimenting and through like renegotiating a relationship with ourselves and with our bodies, which doesn't mean it can't result in weight loss, but it's really not the hard and fast pursuit of that that we're really actually after. We're talking about self-care, which is another generic term. Cause I feel it's like we've I feel like what the way that our culture views weight and health like took us away from the natural sense of like guidance, or it can be experiencing trauma, like whatever it may be. There's many things that can happen that can disconnect us from our bodies and from ourselves. Like we feel like this is not a safe place to be. And it can also come from the external forces of like, well, this is just what you're supposed to do to take care of your body. So we get trained into listening to what's right or wrong. protocols, processes, like I was just I was just talk I was just recording a podcast episode before we started and went a little overtime and Stephanie jumped in, came into my call, like and she was like, ⁓ my gosh, what's going on? You're recording a podcast. So I was I missed I was you'll yeah, I was just talking about how we get caught into these ideas of, you know, like the food pyramid. Like this is how you're supposed to eat. Like we have been told you are supposed to follow these rules. And we're taught that from a really young age. And so then we don't listen anymore to inside to ourselves. We listen outside. Yeah. And so I feel it's like that is where then things feel chaotic. And I've talked about it a lot, is like the pendulum swing. So when we go from hyperfixation and control, and then we let go, we'll swing all the way over to the other side. And now we're out of control. And like you said, no agency. I feel lost. Like and actually don't feel good over here either. You know? And so what normally happens is we run back to what we know, which is okay, clear. Like A, we we believe then it means this is the result of what happens when I let go. Chaos, out of control, still feeling terrible, terrible. So that proves That doing that was wrong. Right. And the only thing that works is me going all the way back. Right. And so that's that's the place I find that most people live. And the path that is unfamiliar and has yet maybe to be forged, which I again believe that we are born this way. I believe we are born being connected with our body and and listening, but we get guided out of that. Quick interruption. If you're listening to this podcast, there's a good chance you spent years feeling at war with your body. Maybe you criticize how you look in photos, or you fear putting on a bathing suit, or you find yourself stuck in your head thinking about how you look instead of being present with the people that you love. I know how exhausting that is because I lived it too. And if you've ever had the thought, I should be able to figure this out on my own, you're not alone in that either. Most of the women I work with felt that way for a long time before reaching out. Body piece coaching helps you shift out of this pattern at the root so you can actually feel at ease in your body again. Not just on a good day, but more consistently. This is one-to-one or small group coaching. So you're not trying to do this alone in a world that's still telling you to shrink. And if part of you feels like I'll never be able to feel okay in my body. I used to believe that too. And now I can say that's not true. So if you're ready to stop thinking about your body all day and feel more at ease in your own mind and skin, you can learn more about body peace coaching in the description below. And book a free body piece consultation to see if it's a right fit for you. All right, back to the episode. Because we're following the rules that everybody else before us has been taught. Yes. And so it's actually a coming back in like What well, how the heck do I do this now? And I always say it's the middle path. Like it's it's the balance that we come into, but it's messy and it's we're not comfortable with it yet. We don't know it yet. And so it takes experimentation. It takes like testing and learning. And, you know, even for myself, like I've even realized, well, I do feel a little bit heavier sometimes in my body. So maybe I don't need to be eating. dessert every single night. Like why and then I'm like, well, why am I doing that? ⁓ is it because I I had told myself I could never have dessert before. And so now it's like I'm making up for all that lost time. But is that actually what you so we can also a lot of people can also feel like they're don't want to go back to the dieting because now they're they're abandoning their food freedom by you know like so it's so yes it's this can then there's these belief systems that are at play. Absolutely You know? An anti diet got in there. So I don't think we were dealing with that five years ago. Like five years ago, w this is when I recovered and I was like the whole anti-diet mindset was new and it wasn't yet a value system, you know, whereas now it's almost a value system. And I felt very comfortable to kind of like I remember coming onto Instagram stories and stuff and on my podcast and Talking about like things like, and this is just an example. This happened over the weekend. And I was thinking about how I would have probably framed this five years ago. It was my daughter's birthday. She turned nine. We had ice cream cake. I love ice cream cake. And I always want like a big old hunk of j of ice cream cake. It's like my favorite. And so we got the ice cream cake in the morning. And I I could hear my former self being like, I, you know, I we're having this ice cream cake tonight. And I, you know, like. And I and I'm not gonna it doesn't matter like if I'm having anything else today, like I'm not gonna save up room for this ice cream cake, which I absolutely don't. Like I don't, my food doesn't change, like from like my my breakfast stays the same, everything stays the same. But I think I would have felt this more of this like defensiveness against like, and so if we have donuts in the morning and ⁓ I don't know, like nachos in the afternoon, like it's not gonna impact my decision to have cake at night, which it wouldn't, but That's because I feel regulated. You know what mean? And so there's also like this part of me that was like, okay, but I'm I'm I'm gonna have this ice cream cake tonight and know that. And so when it came time to have donuts in the morning, I was like, actually I'm not gonna have donuts this morning. Because number one, I don't feel this like high need to do it. And I don't need to have have them just approve something. And also, like, I don't feel amazing when I have like a ton of that kind of food all day. And that is not restricting. Like, but that that is what's confusing, I think. And I think This idea of like, well, I don't want to value dieting or restricting has now become the anti-diet value system. And it's scary for people. And I think that it it's we're we, it's very, I don't know. I'm thinking about why it's so hard to talk about it. I think it's hard to talk about it because you can't know a person's motivations. And so like I know in my body that like me foregoing donuts in the morning is fine with me. Like I don't feel like I'm like, ⁓ I'm being good so I can have that ice cream cake. But on the outside, it might look the same, you know, as as somebody who's like who's like, well, I'm gonna have this at night, so I'm not gonna have this in the morning. But like if I if I operate like trying to prove myself, you know, or even to myself, like then I'm going to forego my body's instincts to be like, all right, like I I know how to balance things, you know, and I can choose to balance them or I can choose not to, like, but I have the choice. And that, how do we talk about that from the point of view of self-care where it doesn't sound preachy? You know, where it doesn't sound like, ⁓ that's the standard where you like you balance is now like sort of like the moral code, you know, which is where like mindful eating, I think, took us and stuff like that. So I think that the nature of discussing this stuff is so personal at that it's hard to talk about socially because anything we're talking about bringing into social forums on Instagram and podcasts, anywhere, becomes moral code. Like it becomes a new thing. And it's unf In I think in this endeavor, and probably more than just here, these these these journeys are very personal and they're quiet and private and they're not about like, here's what you should do, because I do. And they're they're not like, here's the right thing or the wrong thing. It's like, this is so individual. This is day-to-day individual choices. This has to be quiet because it's not about proving anything. And it's not about deciding what's right and wrong. And those choices are are nuanced every day. So there's no prescription for that. And so I think there's a prescription for diet culture and there's a prescription even to some degree for permission and like anti diet culture to some degree. Mm-hmm. The middle part is personal. And and that how do you talk about something like that without making it social, you know, and and without making it another way of having a prescription. So that that's I think why it's tricky I to Well, I think this comes back to The the greater perspective here, which is that we we have this mind that likes to hang on to absolutes. Like it likes to have a belief system. It's like, this is what I believe now. And that feels safe. It feels like we create an identity around it. And and and the anti-diet came as a backlash to diet. But like anything that's on the extremes, it doesn't leave room for the nuance. And most people go to anti-diet from diet culture because. that's part of the natural course of action. You kind of need to go through that initial like rejection of it. But then I to your point, there's also downsides to staying over there because you you're again still in a concept. You're still in a my in the mind, in an idea. And so the what I believe the whole what I call the body peace journey is back to the personal. It's back to only you can know. For yourself. And so when we tease apart the attachments to ideas and to belief systems and start to let go of that and be like, the only thing that matters is how you feel. And the truth is, is that that is why I love it is because I think it's really how we're best designed to operate because it flows with our life. Whereas when we hang on to and are attached to an idea that can serve us. Again, I don't think it's wrong to like and entertain ideas and beliefs, but if they cannot change, if you say, I cannot now think differently than how I did before, you are limiting yourself. And you can be hurting yourself because you're not allowing yourself to move with the change and flow of life. And so when I talk about that internal wisdom and guidance, that is to me where I try to point people back to and start to develop a relationship with. Because that means it may be an alignment with what somebody else believes or a certain concept or idea. But then five years from now, it might be different. And if it and if we are okay letting go of attachment to how we think and the shoulds and shouldn't've and the rights and wrongs, you can actually do what's best for you. And nobody else is living your life and nobody else is living in your body. And and so so all, you know, we gotta call it out. Like, like a lot of people when they're in this journey, ⁓ will be like, well, now I feel like I'm abandoning anti-diet if I want to go back to realizing that actually I'd like to to lose a little bit of weight. And so then I'll say, you know, so this is where I've been changing my thinking about it. And I'm like, okay, but let's like, so then again, let's just really examine where that's coming from because what's the motivation around it? I think the motivation is key. And then if it really feels like that, okay, well then just focus on moment to moment, what like meal to meal, what feels better in your body without rules. So like you said, perfect example of the ice cream cake and the donuts that you gave. From the outside, it might have looked like restriction. But from the inside, it's like I don't need if I eat this three times a day, like I am going to feel sick. And I had a similar example to that of going out to dinner and in my mind I was like, well, there's this salad here. And then there's nachos. And I was going back and forth. Like I love nachos, but I also kind of feel like I want something lighter and fresher. And I ended up leaning towards the nachos. And then it didn't feel as good. Yeah. You know? And then I topped it off because I was with my parents and with my daughter and they wanted to take her to get ice cream. And a McDonald's was across the street. And so we topped it off with a McDonald's ice cream. And boy, did my stomach have a problem with me that night. And my daughter. We woke up with like stomach cramping in the middle of the night. And I was like, okay, like good information. So what that would probably mean to me is like, I don't know, was it the notch? She had the stomach cramps too. So it was probably the ice cream, maybe just something with that particular bash of ice cream. I don't know. But my mind is like, maybe I'll go lighter next time. ⁓ like good just data. It's info. You know? And so when it's not moralized, when you're not trying to it just makes sense then. Yes. And I would even say, and like s I have a bit of a some stomach of steel, like I don't feel sick from eating like too much sugar, quote unquote. But sometimes I'll make the choice from a nutritional wisdom point of view. Like I'll just be like, Well, I just I would like to have some nutrition today, you know, like more nutrition than cake. You know, like so like I can also do that in even in the absence of having not like my body's not necessarily like in that acute moment being like we have a problem with this. But like it it it it's just the way I want to nourish my body r today. And I think that the reason okay, so then I was thinking about this as you were talking too. I was I found this, I found this note in my notes app from 2017 recently. I was looking for something else. I found this. And it was me, this is pre-recovery, and I was You could see. I was like, I I was like, ⁓ I knew things that I didn't know I knew before I knew them. And I was ta I was writing down this, like what's what sounded like I was trying to justify to myself. Like, okay, this is how we want to like take care of my this is how I want to take care of my body. I want to like be able to move this amount. It feels good to me. Eating these foods feels good to me. Eating whatever. I was, I like was naming all these things that had as I'm reading it, I'm like, This is actually true now. Like that, this is what actually works for me now. Like is actually where I've found balance for years. But in this note, I was like, and I know I sound like I'm being hyper controlling about it and like that I, that I'm, that I'm like putting out this plan, but I'm really not, because I really do believe that this is what feels good for me. And I'm look reading this thing and I'm like, wait, I had to stop and think about this. And I was like, okay, so what's the difference between me listening to what I knew or what felt good in my body? And I do believe I was accurate. Like it ended up being accurate. But the difference was attachment and the dis the difference was a prescription plan. So I no longer write these things down and like, okay, here's my plan, here's the way it works for me. It's like because I don't know what's gonna happen tomorrow. I don't know if I need to change that per idea tomorrow. I cannot attach to this idea of what works for me today. Did is that true? Yeah. But if I if I attach to it and like commit to it and now it's the plan. That's what corrupts it. And I think that's where I ended up going because I ended up not knowing the difference between generally what works for me and how to negotiate flexibility certain times. So I would get stuck in that plan. And I think I even did try to be a little bit flexible, but like I always felt like I was like moving away from the goalpost. And now if I move away from the goalpost, it's like, no, it's just today. You know, like it's it's what it is. And I think that that's where that you talk a lot about like. our beliefs and our what our mind is doing. And like that's what the difference is because the the mind before was like, I feel something in my body that's good for me. And I'm attaching to that. And now this is, this is the way for me. Yeah. And now I get that. Like I can feel that, but I would never write that down. Like I would never sort of be like, okay, this is how we do it. Because there is that beginner's mind we have to have to be in non-attachment, right? To be like, And what might be true for me today might be different than what was true for me before. I fall into that in other places in my life too, where like I'm like, I like the way I work right now. Like, let me do it this way. Like, and it I have to always remind myself and work very hard to be like, you're attaching to something. You're you're invested in this way of this working because it has worked and it feels so much easier. And then I have to question that at a certain point when I notice it's not working, it's not working, it's not working, it's not working. It's like, okay. What do I have to confront here, which I've gotten better at doing, but I never like it. So I I I think that I always keep bringing these conversations about attachment end up trumping all. It's it I I love it because literally that podcast episode I was recording before we got on. I was talking about that. I was literally talking about letting go of attachment. We call the thing I was sharing is I and like I said. I won't get into it too much here, but ⁓ within this past week, I like my life is basically changing a lot. So so there's a lot of major shifts that are happening in my life in like different areas. And and I've been through just a a lot of grief over these past couple days. Like and because what I had what I was witnessing and realizing as I was going through this was I was having to let go of the attachment. To how I thought my life was going to be, to what I what I thought was the best, the way that I wanted things, and also a lot of fear then mixed in with, well, what's going to happen? Because, you know, then the mind loves certainty. It is afraid of uncertainty. And so when we have that plan, when we have the structure, the mind's like, good, I feel safe. I feel comfortable here. I know. It does not like uncertainty because it feels unsafe to the mind. And yet that is where we can get trapped because we can't then move as easily, or we will. Life will push us. If we're supposed to go in a different way, it will push us. And I feel like that is what life had been doing for me this week. Got to a point where it was like, All right, like we are we need a change here. So we're pushing you in a new direction now. And if if if I held on to that old I the old ideas that I had in my mind, ⁓ it just prolongs suffering. It creates suffering and prolongs suffering. When I've been able to say, I'm like, wow, look at, look at the way. And I and I'm so grateful that my husband has this level of awareness too, because I would be like, come, come talk to me right now. I'm like in the middle of crying. I'm like, what what about this? Do you think about this? And he's like, can you just stop and look at the stories that your mind is telling you right now? Like look, look at, look at it. And I'm like, and then the ego's like, screw you. Like, I like my stories. I want to s I I want to attach like just wanna let go of even the attachment to the stories that are creating suffering. Don't take away my attachment. Don't take away my suffering. Like so it's been amazing. And so then since I've been moving through that, I'm like, yeah, I do not know what is going to happen. And that is true though, of every day of our life. The mind likes to think because our lives tend to have some sort of level of routineness or certainty. But the real honest truth is we cannot know. And the more that we can and realize too that like life is it's not always like the the quote unquote bad is part of it. But is it ever really bad? Like it's always teaching us things. It's it's always growing us in some ways. In the moment, we may hate it. In the moment it's like like I've often been like, screw this teaching. Yeah. Like like F you teaching. I don't want you. But then in high time. And look at look at what life served me up. How beautiful. You know, five years later. I really like that idea of is it really bad? ⁓ I don't want to take away from anyone who might like have been through some really terrible things, but like that when it comes to some of the suffering that we are that comes from attachment, I think that you're I I love that. Like here's an example of a of a b of an intense one that I'm just popped in my head talking about How bad things can like sometimes lead to good. I was listening to the story of this guy who was this a tsunami survivor. Like, remember when that tsunami hit Thailand? Yeah. So he was in the tsunami and survived it. And he shared his whole story of what happened. And he had lost his partner. Like his partner had died in the tsunami. He had like his body was like broken up from like it was intense, right? And he went through. an incredibly intense period. And then from that, in like his life, you know, was completely just upturned because of this. And then once he got better, he knew, well, I'm I'm gonna go back to Thailand because I want to now h be part of the rebuilding. Like I want to help rebuild some of these towns and you know villages that were decimated by the tsunami. So he went there and did that and then had this desire I want to go back to school and he got his like masters in international something humanitarian work or something along those lines. And then he started his whole career in humanitarian aid to different countries. And then while he was doing that, he met his new wife, who was and then he now has a family. And he was just like, I can just look back and see how as devastating as it was and how difficult it was, I would not be doing what I'm doing now. if it wasn't for that, like life just it, you know, it just led, it led on this journey. And then the amount of understanding and compassion that he can have for people who have gone through disasters, you know, you can't know that unless you've been in that. Like I can't, I can't relate to somebody who's been through a disaster. I can do what I can to support and help, but he knows. Yeah. Like on a deep visceral level. So the support that he can now offer to people. Is next level. Yeah. And so to me, that is like the gift and the value of things that are really hard and tragic. And so that's the way that I choose to look at that because these devastating things are happen are going like they happen. They happen to people. They are part of life. And the way that we can, again, in the moment, not asking, it's like not asking you to feel this way in the moment. Not asking you to like have this some people can, but not asking you to like have this to override what you're feeling in the moment. You go through it. But if we can just see that everything that is happening for us grows us in some way. It gives us something. It gives us an experience that we may not like it. We may not have asked for it, but we got something from that that has made us stronger, wiser, more knowledgeable, more compassionate, whatever it may be. That we would not have gotten otherwise. And that's to me the way that I can be able to sit with and be okay with the hard things in life. Yeah. And to like to completely tie that back to the beginning of this conversation about GLP ones, which doesn't seem like it has to do with this, but I'm s I think it does. For those people who are growing towards something in their own evolution that re that involves repair of one's relationship to one's body. The presence of GLP ones around feels like the off ramp to the like it's like the choice point of like, do I move through the what feels so sticky and bad that might lead somewhere good, which is why I'm doing this. But there's this off ramp to something more certain. There's a there's a way of getting around that that's within my reach. And that feels so tempting and so much easier. And I think it confuses us from and again, I'm just speaking about those to for whom a GLP one would not be in pursuit of evolution, right? So like if that is the pursuit for me, I feel that. Like I feel like not being on a GLP one is better for my growth. And if I get distracted from that, which is gonna be so much more comfortable than going through what's harder, I will miss out potentially on the lesson. You know, like I will mismiss that. And I think it's so hard to If that was a prescription, if it like, no, you will definitely get the lesson if you stay this way, it's like, okay, then I'll do that. But like we don't have anybody notarizing that certificate, you know, from above and like, you will benefit from this. Like, but so so it's it's becomes a matter of like it's this choice point thing. And I think that GLP ones can represent for some people like the way out of what feels like uncertainly un uncertain growth, you know. The truth is is that like I mean, okay. So I think that this is the thing that that why it can be hard to talk about this socially is this is where people will take this and say, ⁓ I'm just taking the easy way out. Is that what you're saying? You know, like and that's where they get upset about that. Some people. And and I'm just like, no like so that really this is truly how I see it. I no, I don't I think that everybody is doing what they feel they need to do for their own experience. I don't know what your path is. I don't know what your journey is. Clearly it's to be on GLP ones right now, if that's what they're you're on, because you're on it. Otherwise, like like I'm not gonna argue with reality here. That's reality. That is a part of your experience in your journey for whatever reason. And and a hundred percent that if like you I think what you're talking about is the one who's like right on the edge, who maybe has the capacity to say, Okay, I know that there is this road that seems harder, and I'm maybe just afraid. Like I maybe I don't have the support to do it because it is harder. It is. But the other side of it is is what's gonna grow you. So that is where I also say dieting and that can be a distraction because it we so we don't have to deal with what's underneath. So I once had this visual in my mind of like I tried to get AI to create an image and it didn't work out well of This path that goes in a circle. And this is like what we're used to, the dieting path. And it's a dirt road and it's well worn and many people are walking it. And it's like this is the path that we're taught. Like if you just manage and control your body, if you eat the right foods, like you're gonna feel good. And so everybody's walking this path and it feels like, yeah, like I'm doing something, see? Like I'm I'm making progress. Look at how much I'm walking. But it's really just going around in a circle. Then there's this other path. And it is like a rocky, ⁓ not paved path that looks a little bit treacherous. But then on the other side, there's these like mountains in the distance, and there's this beautiful sunset, and there's like, I don't know, pastures or whatever. And you know something's there on the other side, but it's like, ⁓ but this feels really scary. And it's also hard. Like it's harder. And so to me, the body piece path has always been that second path. And it's like, I get why. It it feels scary to do it. But what's on the other side of that can be so much more. Like you're gonna see more, you're gonna experience more. Yes, you're gonna sweat. Yes, you're gonna trip and fall and hurt yourself, possibly. Like, you know, by hurting yourself means you go through some emotion in this case. But you it will grow you. You will discover new horizons. And it's not right or wrong. So I don't want anybody to think. I'm not as good enough of person or I failed because I chose the path going in the circle. I don't believe that. But it's like if you're at that choice point, like I want you to see that there's something for you in this. Yes. That it's not just, ⁓ now I'm gonna make my life harder. Right. No, you're not because you're gonna get freedom at the end. Like there's a freedom at the end of this. This will open you up to different horizons within yourself, a different reconnection with your body, the freedom that you're not trapped by this circle anymore. Yes. And I that's how I see it. Sorry, I want to interrupt. No, it's okay. I think one of the distinctions that like I'm thinking about as I listen to you say that is like maybe people assume and we assume that the dieting loop is like the only place where you can find, even I'll go as far as to say, like when we were talking about earlier, like weight loss, like or or comfort in your body. And like it's not, I think maybe the idea with anti diet and diet like. You either do this or you do that. And the pastures represent some kind of body acceptance that you're lucky if you can get there. You know, but some people are like, I can't get there. But it's like, well, maybe the pastures just represent the kind of freedom that this thing doesn't offer who whatever it is for you. Like maybe GLP ones are over there for you. Who knows? You know what I mean? Like, but it's something different than like what you've been doing, where whatever that is for you, whatever personal choice that ends up making. It's like that's what the pastures are, not not the prescription. It's not about the prescription on that side. It's just choices, you know, and and why you're doing something. Yeah. Like to me it's an internal state. Yeah. Yeah. It's a it's about a freedom within yourself. So that you can make choices that feel good to you. And I guess it's just the difference between do you have a desire to see something like to to be doing different than what you've always been doing? Yeah. Yeah. Because that's what that's a path most people are have been coming down. So complex. I think, okay. Let's cut it here because we can again just keep going for another hour. But let's save it. Let's let's talk about Yeah, we'll talk about we'll continue it next time. Let's ⁓ let's catch up again because so much is always happening and changing. And I know we'll have more to talk about next time. Yeah, we'll have our autumn episode to to talk about. ⁓ yes, so it is summer. Yeah, we'll be back to school. That's right. Yes. Yeah. Let's do this again in the fall. Okay. I will see you then. So good to talk to you. You too. Bye, everybody. Bye. Thanks for listening to Unlearning Beautiful. If this episode resonated with you, follow the show and share it with another woman who's ready to see beauty and herself in a new way. And if you feel moved, leave a rating and review. It will help this show reach more women who need to hear it. Remember, you're already everything you've been trying to become. Enough, worthy, and free. I'm Christina Bruce. Until next time.