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Saga Book Club #8 - Volume 8 · 22 Panels - A Comic Book Podcast

0:02
Tad Eggleston: Good evening, everybody! Welcome back to the Saga Book Club on 22 Panels.
0:09
Tad Eggleston: I'm joined by… he's Larry again. He figured out how to make himself Lee, and now he's Larry again.
0:18
Tad Eggleston: Psychocomicology's Lee Woods, Matt and Del Marisol, and Mr. Josh Eiserreich, who is my wonderful writer buddy, who's always got something to plug, so please, plug away, and try to remind me at the end of the episode, too.
0:33
Josh Eiserike: Yes, well, first, let's plug the 22 Panels Patreon that we always should.
0:36
Tad Eggleston: Oh, yeah, I always.
0:38
Josh Eiserike: Listen to the show?
0:38
Tad Eggleston: I need your money.
0:40
Josh Eiserike: Yes, yes, so kick, Ted and his team a few bucks, but now you gotta sit through me plugging.
0:46
Tad Eggleston: to share?
0:46
Josh Eiserike: Go ahead.
0:46
Tad Eggleston: team?
0:47
Tad Eggleston: I do all the work.
0:50
Josh Eiserike: Well…
0:52
Josh Eiserike: If you want to spend your money on something else, brand new, collected for the first time ever, my cult classic graphic novel that I drew, assholes!
1:00
Tad Eggleston: Oh!
1:00
Josh Eiserike: Also includes the never-released Assholes Hanukkah Special. The only place you can get Assholes right now is my website, or come find me at WonderCon in Anaheim, later this month, and pick up.
1:12
Tad Eggleston: Oh, so you're gonna be at WonderCon rather than on my panel at C2E2. I see how it is.
1:17
Josh Eiserike: WonderCon I can drive to.
1:19
Tad Eggleston: Whatever!
1:20
Josh Eiserike: Also, we have the first issue of what will be my next graphic novel, Pale of Settlement. This is a YA adventure, think like Stranger Things, in the world of Fiddler on the Roof, but without music. It's awesome. I'm very biased.
1:36
Tad Eggleston: We don't get the music, though?
1:38
Josh Eiserike: No, this is not a musical. The full book, will be complete probably in the next month or so, so stay tuned for more, and then, of course.
1:45
Josh Eiserike: My first, published graphic novel, The Very Final Last Girls, from Darby Pop Publishing. If you like horror films, this is about the girls who survive horror films, and you will love this comic, or else just don't tell me you didn't like it. That is all. Let's talk about Saga.
2:00
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, Saga Volume 8. And I don't know…
2:06
Tad Eggleston: I mean, I know that a number of us did this in single issues, and otherwise, you could have picked up from… from…
2:16
Tad Eggleston: From some of the queues in the back.
2:19
Tad Eggleston: But, but, as I re-read chapter 43 here,
2:27
Tad Eggleston: I smiled again, because Chapter 43 was part of…
2:33
Tad Eggleston: Image Comics did a thing for their 25th anniversary where most of their major series put out a 25-cent issue.
2:42
Tad Eggleston: And chapter 43, the first chapter of this… this, edition of Saga.
2:49
Tad Eggleston: was a 25-cent comic. In fact, I think I still have, like, a dozen of them, because I… they're a great thing to…
2:55
Tad Eggleston: they're almost as good as Issue 1 to give somebody and just have them read it as is, and go, oh, yes, I want to read Saga. Because it does a good recap.
3:06
Tad Eggleston: While starting a different story, but also.
3:10
Tad Eggleston: And I thought this was a bold move.
3:16
Tad Eggleston: It's like a mission statement of everything that Brian and Fiona believe in. You want to know Brian and Fiona's politics? You read that issue. You know, it deals with a woman's right to choose, it deals with trans issues, it deals with racial issues, it deals with war, all in one nice package, and it's got, what, the fork…
3:39
Tad Eggleston: 4-page recap where we also manage to learn new things. That's one of the things I love about when they recap.
3:45
Tad Eggleston: is… They'll recap it, but even in recapping it, it's not…
3:51
Tad Eggleston: It's not strictly a recap, it's a… it's a…
3:55
Tad Eggleston: Oh, we're gonna tell you about the war, but we're also gonna add in… you know…
4:02
Tad Eggleston: More information about landfall being this… this… tech…
4:07
Tad Eggleston: Mecca, where, where it had, essentially, no…
4:15
Tad Eggleston: history, because everything was being bulldozed over for the new thing all the time, whereas Wreath was still this world of magic and… and heritage and whatnot, and then it got into…
4:28
Tad Eggleston: to the Civil War.
4:30
Tad Eggleston: and did it all in 2 pages.
4:35
Tad Eggleston: Which is just amazing in… So, so many ways.
4:46
Tad Eggleston: So… yeah, those are my initial thoughts on…
4:51
Tad Eggleston: Volume 8, and I'm gonna kick it to everybody else to… to see both what they… I mean, give me thoughts on that first chapter, because I think…
5:01
Tad Eggleston: I think it might be Issue 1 was the last time that a single issue that much.
5:11
Tad Eggleston: sense of purpose put into it. You know, they really do write arcs more than issues. I mean, the issues are all fantastic.
5:19
Tad Eggleston: So, I… at least for me.
5:24
Tad Eggleston: But, but…
5:25
Matt : abortion town.
5:26
Matt : Yeah. It's just as powerful as, am I shitting?
5:30
Tad Eggleston: Right.
5:31
Matt : Okay? I mean, what a way to work through it.
5:34
Tad Eggleston: The very first page of a 25-cent comic. And, like, cute. This cute owl lady…
5:41
Matt : Yes, exactly.
5:43
Tad Eggleston: Owl cowboy in pink cowboy boots.
5:47
Marisol: It's delightful.
5:49
Tad Eggleston: Welcome to Abortion Town!
5:55
Josh Eiserike: Can I push back on something you said a little bit, Ted?
5:58
Tad Eggleston: Sure.
5:59
Josh Eiserike: Do you think we really know his politics from this? Because she couldn't get an abortion there because she was so late.
6:08
Tad Eggleston: But they also comment on that sucking and being about, like, men making laws.
6:14
Josh Eiserike: Right.
6:14
Matt : And then she tells her about the…
6:16
Tad Eggleston: characters, too. I mean.
6:17
Josh Eiserike: Yes, we don'.
6:18
Tad Eggleston: I guess we don't flat-out know his politics?
6:23
Tad Eggleston: Oh, no.
6:23
Josh Eiserike: I don't think we do. I think… I think he writes very empathetically.
6:27
Tad Eggleston: I mean, sure, but… If he was anywhere further right of center.
6:36
Tad Eggleston: I don't think he would have written it at all.
6:39
Tad Eggleston: And or would originate Incredibly more harshly.
6:44
Tad Eggleston: I mean, the… the… when you get to…
6:47
Tad Eggleston: the Badlands, and you've got the woman explaining
6:51
Tad Eggleston: Oh, yeah, that elephant was very deep in, but… Think about it this way.
6:59
Josh Eiserike: Yeah. And that's…
7:00
Tad Eggleston: And, like, that wasn't even, like, the most…
7:05
Josh Eiserike: Yeah.
7:06
Tad Eggleston: I don't know.
7:06
Josh Eiserike: The reason… the reason that I'm pushing back a little bit is because I've read Ex Machina.
7:11
Josh Eiserike: Where…
7:13
Tad Eggleston: It was earlier.
7:13
Josh Eiserike: A dark… darker ending earlier, for sure.
7:16
Josh Eiserike: And one of the things I think Vaughn does really well is he creates characters and then just gets out of their way.
7:24
Josh Eiserike: Yeah. And lets them have their perspective. I read an interview years ago where he was like, yeah, if I met Gert York from The Runaways, I think she would hate me.
7:34
Josh Eiserike: Which I always really liked.
7:38
Josh Eiserike: No, I don't… I… I didn't see him…
7:42
Josh Eiserike: I didn't see this as overtly a political point as maybe I should have, but it's certainly…
7:50
Tad Eggleston: I guess I've been struggling a lot lately with the number of things that we aren't even allowed to ask questions without it being called political. So, to a certain extent, by having the issue there, by making you think about it.
8:05
Josh Eiserike: Right.
8:05
Tad Eggleston: There's an element of politics.
8:07
Tad Eggleston: For sure. And I don't know if he and I agree on all of these points, but what I do know is he thinks they're worth talking about.
8:16
Josh Eiserike: And from what I've read, he also thinks it's his responsibility to reflect the world accurately.
8:22
Tad Eggleston: Generator.
8:23
Josh Eiserike: And I think he does a good job of that in a story, you know, with robots with televisions on their heads.
8:28
Josh Eiserike: Which is… which is wonderful.
8:32
Josh Eiserike: I, I find that first page of this, of chapter 43, I find it totally delightful.
8:37
Tad Eggleston: It is.
8:38
Josh Eiserike: It's… it's, like, almost.
8:40
Tad Eggleston: But it's also gonna make any hardcore…
8:43
Tad Eggleston: Pro-Lifer, like, take their kids out of the shop.
8:48
Josh Eiserike: I don't think that hardcore pro-lifers are letting their kids read these comics.
8:53
Matt : Yeah, but that's a book ban waiting to happen.
8:57
Matt : It's like, oh my god!
8:59
Tad Eggleston: But again, like, this is where I say, if it's just the regular issue of Saga, and therefore likely to be just in line or whatnot, unlikely to be picked up.
9:09
Josh Eiserike: Right.
9:11
Tad Eggleston: But no, it's the 25 cent issue. It's the one where stores ordered 100 copies rather than
9:18
Tad Eggleston: 15 copies. It's the one where they put it up.
9:22
Tad Eggleston: At the register, because it was only 25 cents. Hell, I know stores that didn't charge the 25 cents for the 25 cent copies. They treated them as freebies.
9:33
Josh Eiserike: So, because I was subscribing to this, and because I'd probably
9:38
Josh Eiserike: Would have paid $20 for this issue, or 25 cents.
9:44
Josh Eiserike: Were people jumping in?
9:46
Josh Eiserike: like.
9:47
Tad Eggleston: Well, yeah, it actually…
9:49
Josh Eiserike: I mean, I was selling at the time, and I was at a store where I got permission.
9:55
Tad Eggleston: to give it away for free rather than 25 cents, but I couldn't just put it in bags, I had to, like, give it to people who wanted it and would read it, and the number of people who came back after being given this issue and bought the first 7 volumes within the next month were kind of ridiculous. We…
10:14
Josh Eiserike: Wonderful.
10:14
Tad Eggleston: We doubled our Saga subscriptions in the span of 2 months because of this issue.
10:20
Josh Eiserike: And we already had, I mean…
10:23
Tad Eggleston: at a store where the only book that we had more than 40 subscriptions on at the time was Batman.
10:31
Tad Eggleston: And the next highest was Walking Dead at 32. Saga went from 25 to 50 in the span of a month.
10:39
Josh Eiserike: So it worked beautifully.
10:40
Tad Eggleston: Right.
10:42
Josh Eiserike: That's great.
10:43
Tad Eggleston: But they also had me behind the counter. I've been selling the hell out of it forever, and… Right.
10:47
Tad Eggleston: I'm me, and I don't have a filter, so we probably lost most of our right-wing customers already, or at the very least, they only came in when they knew I wouldn't be there.
10:58
Matt : Thank God.
10:59
Tad Eggleston: I was only there a couple of days a week, so that wasn't hard.
11:02
Matt : Not all heroes wear capes, Ted.
11:04
belle price: Best comic shop ever.
11:06
Matt : Exactly.
11:07
Marisol: Exactly.
11:09
Marisol: It's a selling point right there.
11:12
Tad Eggleston: You used to come in and… and… and… Buy way too many books.
11:19
belle price: I got the tad seal of approval on that.
11:20
Marisol: Yes.
11:21
Marisol: I swear, every time I went to the shop, I would leave with at least, what, $150 worth of trades?
11:30
Tad Eggleston: Generally, I mean, we had buy two, get one free, so, like, you came in expecting to buy nine.
11:36
Marisol: Yes.
11:38
Marisol: Some days I did.
11:39
Tad Eggleston: I think the most you ever went was 15.
11:42
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, that was… But I don't think you ever walked out with 6.
11:48
Marisol: Nope.
11:50
Marisol: More than 6, usually.
11:53
Marisol: Fun times.
11:55
Tad Eggleston: And there was… I think you, I think you jumped on Saga at, like, Volume 6?
12:01
Marisol: Somewhere around there, because I know there were a good handful of them available at the shop when you were talking to me about it.
12:09
Tad Eggleston: Because I feel like I got you to take Volume 1.
12:12
Marisol: It's like…
12:13
Tad Eggleston: The freebie with a couple of other cheap books.
12:16
Marisol: Yeah.
12:16
Tad Eggleston: Then, like, in a very short period of time, you came back, you grabbed the five, and you're like, okay, what should be my sixth book?
12:24
Marisol: I read the first one, I want all of them now. What else did I get?
12:33
Tad Eggleston: I mean, I used to sometimes wind up selling hardcovers because we didn't have the floppies. And people were like, well, I'm gonna need it anyway, so…
12:42
Tad Eggleston: That's fine.
12:44
Tad Eggleston: I'll give my… give my Volume 1 away, and I'll buy the hardcover rather than… because we don't have… we were missing, like, Volume 2, right? We had, like… they had Volume 1, we were missing Volume 2, and… and we had Volume 3, and…
13:01
Tad Eggleston: rather than waiting, if we had book one, they'd just grab Book 1 and then give their… and more than once, the person that they gave it away to would be back in.
13:11
Tad Eggleston: Sometime in the near future.
13:14
Tad Eggleston: This is the power of Saga Lee. I know that Edgar pushes back, but this is why you just need a stack of it somewhere?
13:22
Matt : This… that's how craft dealers work. The first one's free, and then you're…
13:26
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, actually…
13:28
Josh Eiserike: Or the 43rd one.
13:30
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, they did just put out a new round of image first, I forget if Saga was in it, but if it is, like, anytime there's the $1 Saga, you should order, like, a hundred.
13:42
Lee Woods: Yeah.
13:43
Lee Woods: I didn't on my first go see if Saga was on it, which I'm pretty sure I did look for Saga.
13:51
Tad Eggleston: Right.
13:51
Lee Woods: But…
13:52
Tad Eggleston: It's not on… like, the image-first sale isn't the same every time.
13:57
Tad Eggleston: But yeah, no, the… the… having… having the $1 Saga issue one around, particularly because it's a $1, what, 48-page?
14:08
Tad Eggleston: Suck Issue 1.
14:11
Tad Eggleston: is… I mean, it's… it's crack. It's absolutely crack.
14:17
Tad Eggleston: But we fell off the deep ingot again, nobody… not everybody's managed to… I'm dominating, I need to shut up now, I should mute myself. Everybody else is muted.
14:28
Lee Woods: Well, I'm reflecting back on it, and Josh, you asked a very interesting question, because I'm thinking about where I was when I was reading this.
14:36
Lee Woods: And I definitely got the floppy, and I think I paid 25 cents for it. And…
14:44
Lee Woods: which I thought was a complete mistake, by the way. I was like, are you sure? I thought it was 4 bucks… anyway. But when I look back at it.
14:52
Lee Woods: To me, it was… Not necessarily a political thing, it was much more of a…
15:01
Lee Woods: The focal point for me was a miscarriage.
15:04
Lee Woods: And that was a part where I'm like.
15:06
Lee Woods: how the hell? Like, I… I can only imagine.
15:11
Lee Woods: Like, what sort of…
15:13
Lee Woods: One, life that they're living anyway, but just the simple fact, like, through no fault of your own, like, that happens.
15:20
Lee Woods: although this one, like, some maybe force was transferred to how I read it, in my mind canon.
15:26
Lee Woods: Physical force, she fell, took a blast, and things happened.
15:30
Lee Woods: So for me, it was… that sort of…
15:38
Lee Woods: traumatic experience, little t traumatic, and how…
15:42
Lee Woods: parents deal with that, and how they deal with it in certain ways. But yeah, going back to… again, yeah, it's right there, front and center, abortion land. I'm like, yeah, was it about that? Was it about pro-choice versus pro-life, or was it…
15:58
Lee Woods: yeah, because they mentioned that in terms of the timeframe.
16:03
Lee Woods: But for me, it was… I didn't think about that, to be quite honest at the time. It was more about the miscarriage.
16:09
Josh Eiserike: I, I think you just said much more eloquently what I was trying to say. I think about,
16:17
Josh Eiserike: I'm gonna go off-subject for about 30 seconds, I apologize for getting nerdier on a comic podcast. I think about my all-time favorite recording artist. If you've never heard of Ben Folds, he's wonderful, he's a piano player. His…
16:31
Josh Eiserike: He's technically a one-hit wonder, or a one-hit and a few almost-hits, but his one-hit was a song about when he was in high school.
16:38
Josh Eiserike: He had to get his abortion, his girlfriend had an abortion, and it wasn't a political statement, it was simply, this is what it felt like.
16:47
Josh Eiserike: And it was a… it was a sad thing that happened. It's a beautifully sad song, which is me saying that
16:54
Josh Eiserike: Thank God I have no experience in this. I can't imagine what hell it would be through, it would be to go through that. But I think one of the things, Brian Kay Vaughan really, really gets, and Fiona, is the emotion. And I… I just wanted to echo what that, Lee.
17:16
Lee Woods: Yeah, for sure, and… again, Not to continue, sort of.
17:22
Lee Woods: I'm sure there will be one issue where I will say, Brian K. Vaughan, I dislike this. I genuinely disliked it, because you didn't make me hate you, it's just that I thought it was bad. One day we may get there. But yeah, that was one…
17:35
Josh Eiserike: I don't think that day's coming for me.
17:37
Lee Woods: Oh, well, we'll see. I'm cynical in that way, I guess.
17:41
Lee Woods: But, yeah, it was such a… again, the gut punch.
17:47
Lee Woods: From the last issues, this issue, it was just, like, such a… Yeah, I just felt, and…
17:58
Lee Woods: I forget who said it, so I apologize, but it's like, I think one of you was just like, damn you, Brian K. Vaughan, for making, like, hurting me, emotional damage, right?
18:07
Lee Woods: It was…
18:08
Marisol: Like, how dare Brian make me feel feelings in my own home?
18:12
Marisol: The sheer audacity of him to put these, like, delightful other people in front of us, everybody getting along, having a great time, just to rip it all away.
18:26
Marisol: In the most horrible way possible.
18:29
Marisol: But, I mean, at the same time, it's like… These horrors…
18:35
Marisol: happen regularly. This is life, and that's one thing I like about Saga, that it doesn't shy away from any of that.
18:44
Marisol: it's very…
18:46
Marisol: I don't know if this is the right word to use, but it's the best I got right now.
18:50
Marisol: It's very… Raw in the way that it looks at…
18:58
Marisol: Life, life circumstances, the different things that
19:02
Marisol: people from different backgrounds go through, how they end up where they are. Like, we may not go super in-depth into everybody's backstory, like, besides Hazel, because we are seeing her from baby onward.
19:18
Marisol: But we get glimpses of where everyone has come from, and what's made them who they are now. Including, like, the highs and the lows, and sometimes the…
19:32
Marisol: utterly traumatic shit, and it's like, oh…
19:36
Marisol: This explains a lot about you, and how you are now.
19:42
Marisol: This answers a lot of questions.
19:44
Josh Eiserike: I 100% agree with that, and…
19:46
Marisol: Hmm.
19:46
Josh Eiserike: when you were saying that, I think raw is a very, very good adjective. I mean, they did have the audacity to call this book Saga. Like, it's not Alana and Marco in space with their daughter, it's SAGA.
20:02
Lee Woods: And, yeah, just how poignant, the point of…
20:07
Lee Woods: shit happens. Like, life happens, and…
20:12
Marisol: Yeah, like, one minute… Someone's there, the next they're not.
20:17
Lee Woods: Yeah.
20:18
Marisol: One minute you're settled somewhere where you think is comfortable and safe, the next you have to run because your life may literally depend on it.
20:30
Lee Woods: Yeah, and I'm thinking even just clinically, like, How sometimes where…
20:37
Lee Woods: Just that human… very, very human experience of, like.
20:42
Lee Woods: I was just with them. Now they're gone.
20:45
Lee Woods: just… just that… feeling… and again, just how Brian writes it, and Fiona…
20:55
Lee Woods: draws it, if I can call them by their first names like we're friends, I guess. How they…
21:02
Lee Woods: really capture that.
21:05
Lee Woods: I think it's, like.
21:09
Lee Woods: Like, even then, it's like, that should tell you, for those of you listening, this is not me sort of stammering over my own words, this is me failing to articulate
21:21
Lee Woods: At times, what is felt.
21:23
Marisol: And that very, like, real experience, right? And I never quite know sometimes which part of it is more impactful. Is it Brian's writing, or Fiona's art that really gives it the hardest punch?
21:39
Marisol: It is a combination of both sometimes, but there are points where I feel like
21:46
Marisol: Just the visuals of it make it either that much more exciting or hurt that much more.
21:54
Lee Woods: Which is very impressive.
21:56
Marisol: And it's just incredible.
21:59
Marisol: To see from, like, an artistic… standpoint.
22:03
Josh Eiserike: And to that point, I think,
22:06
Josh Eiserike: In however many years it takes them to wrap this up, to…
22:11
Lee Woods: No pun intended, finished the saga.
22:13
Josh Eiserike: I think we're gonna be very happy that it was one artistic vision all the way through, and not filler artists.
22:23
Lee Woods: I don't know, man, I don't think I'm gonna be happy. I think somewhere down the line, it's gonna be bittersweet.
22:29
Josh Eiserike: I think I'm gonna be…
22:29
Marisol: But it's ends.
22:30
belle price: When I read Saga, I wouldn't describe it as happy, necessarily? I'd say it's more of a mixed bag, side B, and it's like, you get a number 1 through 9, that's how I feel with Saga, like, sometimes it's a 9, sometimes it's a 3s, you know?
22:48
Josh Eiserike: We as fans, we as fans are going to be glad that it was one singular creative vision. That's more the point, and to your point, no, I think it's gonna be a very bittersweet ending, but I think it will be emotionally satisfying, and I completely, completely trust this creative team to get us there.
23:07
Tad Eggleston: I actually…
23:08
Marisol: To see where it keeps going.
23:11
Tad Eggleston: As much as I know it's gonna hurt. Have a new prediction on the ending that I'm gonna…
23:17
Tad Eggleston: Wait a few more volumes to… to… to say, because…
23:24
Lee Woods: Put any spoilers! Are you gonna tease us like that, Ted?
23:27
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, I am? I am, because… because there was something that… that… that… that was…
23:35
Tad Eggleston: said between characters in this volume that made me think of things that happen in later volumes, in fact, in some volumes that I'm not certain everybody has gotten to and read yet.
23:47
Tad Eggleston: So, I am going to… to hold off.
23:54
Tad Eggleston: On whether or not This volume includes a… a massive
24:01
Tad Eggleston: what I suspect is a massive foreshadow.
24:06
Tad Eggleston: And I could be completely wrong, because God knows…
24:11
Tad Eggleston: as much as… I mean, like…
24:14
Tad Eggleston: one of the things that I noticed as we re-read this is… is, oh my god, did he… did he foreshadow that Marco wasn't… and I shouldn't have said that, because that's next… next month, but, you know, there have been some big things that were shocking when they happened, that when you do the reread, you're like, oh…
24:31
Tad Eggleston: Oh.
24:33
Tad Eggleston: Oh.
24:37
Josh Eiserike: Well, now I want to re… re-read
24:41
Josh Eiserike: And see if I can catch what you're picking up on.
24:44
Marisol: Reverse follow the thread that.
24:46
Tad Eggleston: Well, I…
24:48
Marisol: Oh, that's how we got here.
24:49
Tad Eggleston: It was in a… it was in a conversation between Hazel and Kurti.
24:55
Tad Eggleston: In this volume, so, so, so, little brother, Kurti.
24:59
Josh Eiserike: Yeah.
24:59
Tad Eggleston: I went, hmm… This actually matches up with one of the cooler twists of Volume 10, 11, 12.
25:11
Tad Eggleston: Is it gonna become, big thing, and… and…
25:17
Tad Eggleston: And then, is it gonna just be a big thing for Hazel, or is it gonna have actual galactic implications?
25:24
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
25:28
Tad Eggleston: Leave it at that.
25:29
Josh Eiserike: I didn't know.
25:29
Tad Eggleston: At least for a couple months.
25:31
Josh Eiserike: Speaking of the galaxy, I want to totally change subjects for a moment and just ask a question that I found myself wondering.
25:37
Josh Eiserike: This is very specific,
25:40
Josh Eiserike: Does anybody else get the impression from the Wills flashback that he might be from Earth?
25:46
Tad Eggleston: I mean…
25:47
Marisol: I was wondering that on my first read-through, but I'm like…
25:50
Marisol: Is Earth even a part of this…
25:54
Marisol: story, technically, or do they just call it… they just have a different name for Earth?
26:01
Tad Eggleston: I mean, I get where you're coming from, but at the same time, landfall feels a lot like Earth, too.
26:09
Tad Eggleston: Other than, like, wings?
26:12
belle price: Maybe it's an Earth-like substance.
26:14
belle price: It's like…
26:15
Josh Eiserike: But the weld is also… he's also human. There's nothing…
26:21
Tad Eggleston: Right. Basically, talking about…
26:23
Josh Eiserike: him, and it looks like he grew up, like, outside of, like, Cleveland or wherever, right?
26:26
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
26:27
Tad Eggleston: That's an interesting,
26:32
Tad Eggleston: I'm… I'm… I'm… call me intrigued.
26:36
Josh Eiserike: Yeah.
26:37
Tad Eggleston: No, and it might be…
26:38
Josh Eiserike: room.
26:38
Tad Eggleston: never actually…
26:41
Josh Eiserike: Oh, I don't… I don't think it's ever gonna be addressed.
26:45
Tad Eggleston: And, you know, I love that you said Cleveland, because that's also where Vaughn's from.
26:49
Josh Eiserike: That's exactly why I said it, yeah.
26:51
Tad Eggleston: Wow.
26:54
Marisol: Well, briefly jumping off the Will's little…
26:58
Marisol: flashback backstory bits. It was interesting to see that I guess from…
27:06
Marisol: Me interpreting the story as we saw it.
27:12
Marisol: They're… his uncle… Got them into their, like, Freelance… freelancer work.
27:22
Marisol: As, you know, becoming the will and the brand.
27:28
Tad Eggleston: After killing.
27:29
Marisol: Manhatt giant chameleon.
27:32
Marisol: Which is just fun.
27:38
Lee Woods: I did not think that. I don't know…
27:43
Marisol: It's like… They're… their uncle on their mom's side.
27:48
Marisol: is the letter.
27:50
Josh Eiserike: Yes.
27:52
Tad Eggleston: Nam.
27:54
Lee Woods: Yeah, looking back, I definitely would say that they… or he is from… Like, some sort of, like.
28:05
Lee Woods: Rural, backcountry, sort of, place in… The states, but…
28:11
Lee Woods: Yeah, I think on my first read-through, I didn't think of it.
28:13
Tad Eggleston: Yeah, no, as soon as I went and re-read it there, I'm like, okay, I totally see what Josh is saying. But no, I think… I think…
28:21
Tad Eggleston: there are… there are hints of Earth all over the place, and no… no mention of Earth, that, like, I just assumed that there was no Earth, but now I'm wondering if there is an Earth, and, like, when we see RCA cables, it's because…
28:36
Tad Eggleston: That was what got…
28:38
Tad Eggleston: That was what Earth came up with, that the galaxy went, oh, that's kind of cool, we've never done that, let's do it that way. And it also makes… it makes way more sense that the will would have
28:51
Tad Eggleston: Fucking… VHS camcorder?
28:55
Josh Eiserike: Yeah.
28:56
Josh Eiserike: Yeah, I do think, it's gonna be like Springfield and The Simpsons. We're never gonna know exactly where it is, and it doesn't really matter, but I don't… like, to me, it's like, oh.
29:08
Josh Eiserike: Feels like Earth, like, maybe, I don't know, 100 years in the future or something like that?
29:13
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
29:13
Matt : Ohio, Springfield, Ohio.
29:16
Josh Eiserike: Hmm.
29:17
Tad Eggleston: Springfield, Illinois.
29:18
Lee Woods: I thought Illinois. I don't know why.
29:20
Josh Eiserike: Oregon.
29:22
Lee Woods: Really?
29:23
Josh Eiserike: That's where he's from.
29:24
Tad Eggleston: Oh.
29:26
Josh Eiserike: No, but it's… but we're never gonna know, we're never gonna know, and that's the point.
29:30
Tad Eggleston: Well, I mean, Ohio, Missouri, and Illinois are most likely, because every time they show a map.
29:37
Tad Eggleston: they put a big thing in the center of the United States to indicate Springfield.
29:44
Tad Eggleston: It's never coastal.
29:47
Josh Eiserike: And we're never gonna know, and that's the.
29:48
Tad Eggleston: That's true.
29:52
Lee Woods: Huh.
29:55
Marisol: That's the frustrating part, too, because then a part of you wants to know, like, You want the lore.
30:01
Marisol: But at the same time, it's sometimes better not to know.
30:05
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
30:09
Lee Woods: Well, how interesting, too, is that, even thinking about this, how…
30:16
Lee Woods: everything has a sort of purpose. Like, every person that we meet, every side character that we meet.
30:22
Lee Woods: Even… even… Even every animal companion that we meet has a story and has a purpose to it.
30:29
Lee Woods: All the way down to the VHS recorder, right? It's like… Well…
30:36
Lee Woods: Where does it come from, right? And that's…
30:39
Lee Woods: at least, again, for me, just kind of being a little bit more introspective right here, is like, I…
30:46
Lee Woods: didn't think about that, like, the focal points are the characters here, but… Wow.
30:51
Lee Woods: the neighborhoods and communities and backgrounds also tell that story and serve a point.
30:57
Lee Woods: I'm just… Yeah, I'm kind of like… I'm gonna…
31:02
Tad Eggleston: I'm gonna spin from that to,
31:05
Tad Eggleston: Josh, how are you feeling about the wheel right now?
31:09
Josh Eiserike: I am still Team Will, and I know what's happening. You know, he's had…
31:13
Tad Eggleston: I thought, I thought you were the one that never liked the wheel, you're with.
31:15
Josh Eiserike: No!
31:16
Tad Eggleston: Oh, okay.
31:17
Lee Woods: That was me.
31:18
Tad Eggleston: That was Lee. Okay, Lee, how are you feeling about the wheel right now?
31:24
Matt : Are you able to empathize with him?
31:26
Matt : Very smooth pivot there, Ted, I like that.
31:30
Lee Woods: The other guy, no, that was…
31:35
Tad Eggleston: See, Matt, he called himself the other guy. That means, apparently, you're not a man.
31:42
Lee Woods: Allegedly. Jury's still out.
31:45
Tad Eggleston: Oh, wow, he's just letting that one fly by, too.
31:50
Tad Eggleston: Or he's on mute and shouting at me and doesn't know that I can't hear it.
31:57
Lee Woods: Yeah, for me, I think this is where, Josh, the…
32:02
Lee Woods: my connection to Will does grow.
32:05
Lee Woods: I think this was the part where It's like, okay, Rough childhood, abusive childhood even.
32:13
Lee Woods: And even that… just how…
32:18
Lee Woods: to me, poignant, that scene, of… there's always something so…
32:23
Lee Woods: in comics, Brian… Fiona Staples has done it.
32:28
Lee Woods: And I know that with, like, Walking Through the Path of Hell by Garth Ennis, just the flat faces that show no emotion in that expression disturb me. And just this face of a young Will
32:45
Lee Woods: with, sort of, blood splattered across it. It was like…
32:50
Lee Woods: Yeah, you'd imagine there's some… there's some problems there, as a kiddo, witnessing that sort of brand of violence.
32:57
Lee Woods: No pun intended, it's… To me, that's like, okay.
33:03
Lee Woods: Okay, like, even despite the childhood and what's actually happening in the comic, try not to spoil too much here, is that…
33:12
Tad Eggleston: Well, we're a book club. We're allowed to talk about what's happening in the comics. I try not to spoil, like, the next volume.
33:20
Lee Woods: That makes sense.
33:20
Tad Eggleston: And I fail sometimes.
33:23
Lee Woods: It happens.
33:24
Tad Eggleston: He's getting brutally tortured.
33:26
Lee Woods: Yeah, that totally…
33:28
Marisol: to read the volumes anyway, so… Right, right.
33:31
Lee Woods: True.
33:31
Tad Eggleston: You know, I mean, anybody who listens to the Saga book club and expects it not to involve spoilers doesn't understand what a book club is.
33:42
Tad Eggleston: And I say that knowing that I know my brother hasn't read all of Saga, and I don't know if my mom's read Saga, and I think they listen to them anyway, but I don't think they expect us to be spoiler-free. So…
33:58
Josh Eiserike: So, Lee.
33:59
Tad Eggleston: And if you choose…
33:59
Josh Eiserike: Just to clarify.
34:01
Josh Eiserike: Sorry, Ted. To clarify, do you… do you feel like he's, like, sociopathic here, or does this help you empathize with him?
34:10
Lee Woods: This helps me empathize with him.
34:13
Josh Eiserike: Got it.
34:13
Lee Woods: Cause…
34:14
Tad Eggleston: I mean, can't the answer be both?
34:16
Josh Eiserike: Okay, Ken.
34:18
Tad Eggleston: It can, if I didn't know…
34:22
Lee Woods: the will leading up to this point, like, prior to knowing about his past, if that makes any sort of sense there, where he is empathic. He does display the ability to empathize, show emotion, and even in some cases, remorse, hence, the sort of,
34:38
Lee Woods: Tripping and drugs and guilt.
34:41
Tad Eggleston: Right.
34:41
Lee Woods: weight gain. So, like, that entire sort of down, that lets me know he's not a sociopath in that way. What this does show me is that, again.
34:53
Lee Woods: as… much as I pushed him away, this…
34:59
Lee Woods: Unfortunately, maybe this speaks a lot about my,
35:03
Lee Woods: Perception of people, but it was a very traumatic and abusive upbringing.
35:07
Josh Eiserike: Which makes him really human.
35:10
Lee Woods: To me.
35:11
Lee Woods: Yes. So, to me.
35:13
Tad Eggleston: It also means that he might have pushed you away.
35:17
Lee Woods: Oh, yeah.
35:18
Tad Eggleston: Because that would be a natural…
35:21
Tad Eggleston: thing for somebody with that upbringing to do, push away
35:26
Tad Eggleston: Anybody who might be close to him.
35:29
Tad Eggleston: And I know that that's completely meta, treating the will like a real person, and you.
35:35
Tad Eggleston: like somebody in his world, but… but I wonder how much that was supposed to be a… I'm gonna get this… create this character that…
35:44
Tad Eggleston: pushes you away, even as he clearly has a code, and clearly does care about certain things, even when he tries not to.
35:57
Tad Eggleston: just so, like, at least for me, I know the first time I read it, like, you can get to the point where he's getting tortured and go.
36:05
Tad Eggleston: I'm sorry for all the terrible things I said about you.
36:08
belle price: You know, the Will, to me, feels like the perfect comic book performative male. Like, he's really trying to uphold this, like, nonchalant, like, essence, but at the end of the day, like, he actually does give a fuck, like… It's kind of funny to me how some of his scenes feel that way.
36:25
Tad Eggleston: That, that, that makes a lot of sense.
36:27
Lee Woods: Very interesting.
36:30
Lee Woods: Yeah, that was… that was the part for me where I think my opinion of the wheel, like, turned, and, like, looking back at this, for sure.
36:39
Lee Woods: He's definitely still not my favorite character, but I at least understand his motives now, and I can…
36:46
Lee Woods: I can understand him, and I think that's where my opinion changed.
36:50
Josh Eiserike: I also think, and I… let me be clear, I don't mean this in a bad way, I think this is the act of writing.
36:57
Josh Eiserike: I think there is deliberate emotional manipulation in this volume to get us to, like, the will, knowing what's coming.
37:05
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
37:06
Tad Eggleston: Oh, yeah
37:08
Tad Eggleston: Because there's never been a quicker, okay, kind of like you, I feel you, fuck you, I want you to die in an even more painful way than you just escaped.
37:20
Josh Eiserike: Right.
37:21
Tad Eggleston: That I have ever felt in my life.
37:24
Josh Eiserike: I mean, to your…
37:26
Tad Eggleston: It's on… on par with how quickly I utterly turned on Kylo Ren at the end of, of, of,
37:34
Tad Eggleston: It's like, no! This can't be his redemption! I don't want it anymore!
37:40
Tad Eggleston: He killed Han Solo!
37:45
Lee Woods: That's… that's an interesting point, Josh. I didn't think about that.
37:48
Josh Eiserike: And Tad, by the way, to call around, you will get no argument from me on that, but for the will.
37:53
Tad Eggleston: He's almost… he's almost redeemed by the fact that it's Solo that comes back to him.
38:00
Tad Eggleston: Well, it's still hard. I'm sitting there going, you killed?
38:07
Josh Eiserike: I'm… I'd be… to your point, Ted, at the beginning of this book club, it is a transitional arc, and I will be, you know, having not read this for years, and just remembering the end of the next volume.
38:24
Josh Eiserike: I'd be real curious to see how I feel about the Will after one more arc, having not read that in years.
38:29
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
38:31
Tad Eggleston: I mean, what I always… I mean, I've probably read…
38:34
Tad Eggleston: It's been a couple years now since I read Volume 9, but what I do remember about every time I read Volume 9 is that everything feels fresh, except those last few pages, so, like, that's how hard it winds up hitting you, that you, like, forget the last 6 issues.
38:52
Josh Eiserike: Right.
38:54
Tad Eggleston: There's actually some, like, joyous, cool stuff. There's some other heartbreak, but then that, that, that, that thing happens, and it's like.
39:06
Tad Eggleston: Within hours, the only part of it that I can remember is that image. Yeah.
39:13
Lee Woods: Dupe.
39:15
Tad Eggleston: Damn.
39:18
Tad Eggleston: I do also love… Prince Robot and Petracor getting together.
39:29
Marisol: Yeah.
39:30
Marisol: Their whole interaction, before I flipped the page the first time I read this, I thought they were just gonna start throwing hands and punching each other.
39:42
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
39:43
Marisol: This is my home, I saw… you just see this static…
39:47
Tad Eggleston: on the Prince Robot's face.
39:50
Marisol: We don't know what he's thinking in this moment. He seems to be… A little here and there.
39:55
Marisol: For the majority of things, since he got his face cracked.
40:00
Marisol: And… I did not expect that, the first read-through for the two of them to be getting together.
40:07
Marisol: They're both so goddamn stubborn and willful.
40:12
Marisol: But I was like, you know what? I kind of dig it.
40:17
Tad Eggleston: Yep.
40:18
Tad Eggleston: How much of a change does it represent in Robot that he let that family go?
40:25
Tad Eggleston: That it was Petracor going, it's too late for me to shoot them in the back?
40:29
Marisol: It's a huge… no, it's a huge growth for him, because before, he would have, without hesitation, wiped that whole family out.
40:38
Tad Eggleston: But tell him any stories.
40:39
Marisol: No.
40:40
Marisol: Zero hesitation, their faces would have all been blasted off, and they would have been dead in a dish somewhere.
40:46
Tad Eggleston: Okay.
40:47
Marisol: But now, I think it's the fact that he…
40:50
Marisol: has Squire to go back to. Squire is back waiting for him. He seems to be…
40:59
Marisol: more of an… Maybe empathetic is a little bit of a strong word for him right now, but he's more hesitant to immediately pull the trigger and go to violence and murder in situations like this. He's a little more merciful.
41:17
Tad Eggleston: Well, I actually think in a lot of ways, he's less suicidal.
41:22
Marisol: Oh, look.
41:22
Tad Eggleston: I think part of… part of the way that he would just shoot first and ask questions later was, like, he had no regard for
41:30
Tad Eggleston: For life, most of all his own.
41:33
Tad Eggleston: So, like, he didn't care if you died, and he didn't care if anybody came to avenge you, because either they'd die, or he'd die, and either way, cool.
41:45
Tad Eggleston: You know, but… but having…
41:52
Marisol: Another squire, who's a delightful.
41:54
Tad Eggleston: Having Squire gives him something to…
41:57
Marisol: And I did notice that…
41:59
Marisol: Squire's screen, his images are always little crayon drawings, and it's the cutest thing in the world!
42:07
Tad Eggleston: Yep.
42:07
Marisol: It's so precious.
42:08
Tad Eggleston: Choir is absolutely adorable in this.
42:11
Marisol: Squire is very important to me.
42:14
Tad Eggleston: You know, when…
42:15
Marisol: should be okay the longer we read this. I know it's coming.
42:20
Tad Eggleston: When he… when he can't shoot… the… the knot?
42:26
Tad Eggleston: I, I, I both…
42:29
Tad Eggleston: both feel for him, and really feel for Goose, because in that moment, Goose is like, I'm proud of you that you have trouble killing, and we're all gonna die if I don't kill Friendo.
42:43
Tad Eggleston: Which must have been just… Can you imagine what Goose is going through there?
42:48
Tad Eggleston: you know, when he says, I told you, I'm not cross.
42:52
Tad Eggleston: Just sad about what's gotta happen next.
42:56
Tad Eggleston: Which made me SO happy.
43:01
Tad Eggleston: That they were back.
43:04
Tad Eggleston: And Frendo was… safe.
43:08
Tad Eggleston: Okay, so now Frendoscool.
43:13
Tad Eggleston: And then the last…
43:15
Marisol: I'm really happy that Frendo was spared.
43:17
Tad Eggleston: The, the last page here… Is one of my favorite pages in all of Saga, period.
43:28
Tad Eggleston: Hazel, Hazel and… And Squire, hand in hand.
43:34
Tad Eggleston: Running off to play.
43:35
Tad Eggleston: With all of their parents swooning in the background.
43:46
Josh Eiserike: Again, works.
43:47
Josh Eiserike: We're ending on an uplifting note for this one.
43:50
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
43:51
Tad Eggleston: we're ending on a very uplifting note for this one. This is… this is one of the…
44:01
belle price: I'd say this is the ultimate calm before the storm, honestly. Yeah. Because if you think about the end of next… the next volume, like, we're getting probably the worst moment of all of Saga, arguably. So, like, it makes sense, honestly, that this volume will end on a high note, because we're about to end on the worst note possible.
44:17
Tad Eggleston: And I say this.
44:19
Marisol: Storm is what this is.
44:21
Tad Eggleston: even as good things have happened since then, like, I think this is the last moment
44:26
Tad Eggleston: that I was certain that we were gonna have a happy ending?
44:33
Tad Eggleston: I mean, I've always taken the tone that Hazel narrates in.
44:38
Tad Eggleston: It is indication that we have a mostly good ending.
44:42
Tad Eggleston: Right. But this was the last moment where I…
44:47
Tad Eggleston: I really believed that they were gonna…
44:51
Tad Eggleston: ride off into the sunset, rather than it being… A tragedy with a…
44:58
Tad Eggleston: moral victory or something. I don't know how to describe it, but Josh, you're the writer, help me out here.
45:05
Josh Eiserike: Gonna be… it's gonna be bittersweet.
45:07
Tad Eggleston: Yeah. Like, I don't think there's any way for this to have, like, a totally happy ending.
45:13
Josh Eiserike: Well, I mean, yeah.
45:16
Josh Eiserike: And I also don't think you're gonna end this like a total bummer.
45:19
Tad Eggleston: No.
45:21
Tad Eggleston: I mean, but I mean, like, again, by the end of the next volume, there are too many people lost
45:30
Tad Eggleston: To allow for a happy ending, no matter how long we have to go.
45:35
Josh Eiserike: Correct.
45:36
Tad Eggleston: So, I mean, this is where I then.
45:41
Josh Eiserike: Oh, I know what the ending is!
45:44
Josh Eiserike: 100%. I feel very confident. I'm gonna just… I have no basis to go on this. The ending of Saga's gonna be when Hazel becomes a mom, and she's telling the story to her kid.
45:55
Tad Eggleston: I think that's, that's definitely, definitely, I could see that.
46:01
Tad Eggleston: That's not part of what I had, but it doesn't refute what I had in my head.
46:06
Tad Eggleston: I'll share it off-air. I just want to wait on air.
46:10
Josh Eiserike: Okay.
46:11
Tad Eggleston: But yeah, no, that makes… that makes a ton of sense, is that I would even go a step further. I wouldn't be surprised if she's telling it to, like, her grandkid.
46:19
Josh Eiserike: Yeah.
46:20
Josh Eiserike: I mean, this was Brian… Brian K. Vaughan watched, How I Met Your Mother and said, this is how I'm gonna do that story.
46:25
Tad Eggleston: Oh my god, how I met your mother!
46:29
Matt : That's damn spot on, dude.
46:34
Lee Woods: I don't… I don't know. Maybe I'm the pessimist here. I've been…
46:39
Tad Eggleston: Are we gonna suit up now?
46:41
Lee Woods: I don't… I… I think… Are we picking sides?
46:47
Lee Woods: I think just from anything from this volume, that we could play a scene and background while being tortured.
46:56
Lee Woods: looking at the will, like, I don't know. Maybe it's the pessimist in me.
47:00
Lee Woods: Maybe they're…
47:01
Lee Woods: time's standing still, they're going to a black hole. I'm thinking about, like, some random stuff, I don't know. I hope it ends somewhat well, but…
47:10
Tad Eggleston: That would be an interesting happy ending. They fall into a black hole, don't know it, and, and, like.
47:18
Tad Eggleston: still…
47:19
Tad Eggleston: you know, it can't be a real flat black hole, because apparently a real black hole is, like, squeezing you through a straw. I mean, I heard Neil deGrasse Tyson explain it once, and it doesn't sound pleasant, but, like, it could be something where they fall into something weird, where nobody else can… but they have their supply, maybe they have another rocket ship… another wood rocket ship. I mean, they had…
47:43
Tad Eggleston: You know, they go back to Wreath, they get a new wood rocket ship, and then they go off into parts unknown, but they've got the thing that will give them sustenance.
47:54
belle price: I kind of have a different idea. It kind of combines the two, Lee and Josh, your ideas, but not really at all, actually. It's, like, kind of similar, kind of different.
48:02
belle price: I think… I think it's kind of happy, right, in the sense that, like, Hazel survives every… like, she's obviously narrating. What if she ends up, like, D. Oswald Heist, and she's on a planet writing a book, and she's writing about her life and the story to, like, kind of…
48:16
belle price: You know, pass on to…
48:18
belle price: you know, other generations, just, like, kind of writing, like, a memoir of sorts, but writing about her parents. She's writing the saga writing saga.
48:26
Josh Eiserike: I could 100% see that,
48:30
Josh Eiserike: It feels a little too Stephen King-y for me.
48:32
Tad Eggleston: Hmm.
48:33
Josh Eiserike: But, this is why I go back to, she's gonna become a mom.
48:39
Josh Eiserike: Because it's saga. That's what happens next.
48:42
Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
48:43
Lee Woods: That's cool.
48:45
Josh Eiserike: And again, I have nothing to base that on, that's just… that's just my gut.
48:51
Tad Eggleston: I think that that's a good place to wrap for tonight, unless anybody else has anything That they wanna…
49:00
Tad Eggleston: toss in…
49:05
Tad Eggleston: Alright, nobody's unmuting, so I'll say for John Seiserick.
49:10
Tad Eggleston: Go back to the beginning of the episode and read all the books that he listed. Psycho Kamikaze's Lee Woods.
49:16
Tad Eggleston: Matt and Bell and Marisol, this has been 22 Panels in the Saga Book Club. We will see you after the next page.