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ADHD pt 2 · Stuff You Should Know

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hello, everyone, In case you're listening to these episodes out
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: of order, we gave a heads up in episode one
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: that we have a kind of a grown up talk
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: about ADHD in these two episodes, So we wanted to say,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: if you're a parent with a kid who has ADHD,
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: maybe listen to it yourself first before you share it
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: with them. On with the.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: Show, Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Chuck and Jars here again and we're starting up part
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: two of our double episode on ADHD.
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: That's right, And if you remember in part one we
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: discussed ADHD.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: Some people have it, some.
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: People don't, and we're going to talk right now about
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: how you can figure that out, and that's called diagnosis.
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: Right now, where we are scientifically is that the biggest
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: factor on whether or not you have ADHD or not
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: is hereditary. If you have kids and you have ADHD
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: as a parent, your kid has about a fifty percent
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: chance of having it as well. And like we mentioned
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: in the first part, a lot of adults from especially
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: our generation Gen Xers, are now getting diagnosed in their
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: thirties forties, fifties because they found out that their kid
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: has ADHD and they're like, wow, little Chucky Junior looks
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: a lot like big Chucky.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a symptom. I thought that was charming exactly.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: Cattle's a bug.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: And even if they don't recognize it in them, there's
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: a one hundred percent chance that their spouse will be like,
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: I really think you have this too.
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but there are some other factors, right.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Yes, there's issues during pregnancy, that's a big one, usually
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: exposure to alcohol or tobacco, premature delivery, if you didn't
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: weigh very much when you were born, if you were
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: exposed to lead as a kid, if you had a
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: brain injury as a kid. There's a lot of concern
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: about some other stuff. I think you said at the
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: very outset of part one. There isn't any research that
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: suggests watching too much TV or living in a go
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: go go world. There is some research that suggests that
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: blue number one and Blue number two food dies may
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: actually at least exacerbate ADHD symptoms, But for the most part,
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: they think it's a combination of genetics, the environment you
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: were raised in, and then possibly like actual environmental factors
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: like being exposed to lead or your mom, you know,
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: smoking when she was pregnant with you.
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and just to kind of clear up the TV
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: and the screen thing, watching TV or being on screens
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: too much or too much TV quote unquote isn't going
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: to help give you ADHD, but there is a connection there.
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: If you are a kid with ADHD, the pool toward
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: a screen is going to be way stronger than a
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: kid who doesn't have it. That short attention span is
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: gonna really crave like the flashy graphics that video games
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: or cartoons can deliver you, it'll deliver that steady dose
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: of dopamine. They've done studies, it was. I found one
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: a large study of five year olds that compared tension
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: span of kids who watched less than thirty minutes per
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: day of TV with those who spent more than two
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: hours in front of a TV, and of course we
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: mean you know, screens basically.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: And pretty dramatic results.
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: The kids who watched the most TV had almost an
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: eight times more of a chance of meeting the ADHD
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: diagnosis criteria, and it even outranked other things that cause
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: attention problems like you know, lack of sleep or parents
• 3:55
  Speaker 3: stress eutonomic stress stuff like that.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: So there's a link. It's not going to get you ADHD.
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: But if you have a kid with ADHD, then you
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: should probably just monitor screens even more. You know, you
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: should be doing that anyway, but maybe even more so.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because those sites are designed to release dopamine and
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: train you to come back and do it again and
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: again and again. And so kids with ADHD who don't
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: normally have a flood of dopamine when they get it,
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: they really learn to do that thing that gives them
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: that dopamine, which again doesn't give you like a feel
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: good rush, It just comes along with that and tells
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: your brain this is a really important thing to do,
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: so do it again and again and again.
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: It's also like the age of your kid is really
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: important when you're trying to diagnose if you're pre preschool
• 4:44
  Speaker 3: aged or younger or I guess that counts as all
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: ages younger than preschool, but.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean.
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: That that can be a lot tougher because there are
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: other developmental delays that may look like ADHD that change
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: and you may not be able to get a good
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: diagnosis until they're you know, six, seven, eight, years old,
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: and even when they're older, like you know, teenagers.
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: You got to rule out a lot of stuff like.
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: Learning disabilities, mood disorders, if you have like vision or
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: hearing problems or a sleep disorder. A lot of that
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: stuff can can fool you into thinking you have ADHD.
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: So it can be tricky, it can be.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: So there's two lists. There's an inattentive list and then
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: there's a hyperactive list. Yeah, and each one has I
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: think nine like criteria things like you know, you lose
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: things frequently, you appear to zone out while people are
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: talking to you, stuff like that. And if you have
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: six out of the nine on the inattentive list, you
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: have inattentive type ADHD. If you have six out of
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: nine on the hyperactive list, you have hyperactive type ADHD.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: And if you're really running up the numbers and you've
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: got six of nine on inattentive and six of nine
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: on hyperactive, you've got the combined version of ADHD. Adults,
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: it's the same thing, although the criterias adjusted a little bit.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: For you know, runs around rambunctiously in class. You don't
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: do that, but say you feel restless at it during
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: meetings like it's really hard to sit still.
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: You may be mentally doing that exactly.
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: I would love to jump up and spin in a circle,
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: right right, But a kid will actually do that. Where's
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: the adult in the meeting will just struggle through that exactly.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: So the criteria is essentially the same, it's just kind
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: of adjusted for adults, and then for adults it's five
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: of nine yeah, for either lists. And then also with kids.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: When you're diagnosing kids, you look at their educational records,
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: you talk to their parents, you talk to the guidance counselors.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: You get as much information as you possibly can to
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: properly diagnose somebody with ADHD, because there's not one like
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: here's our ADHD test, whether it's a blood test or
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: a written test. You're basically pulling all of these disparate
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: info together to put together like, Okay, this kid has
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: ADHD and it's this kind Yeah.
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: And that's why you know, parent teacher conferences are super valuable.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: I think when you first start to have to do
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: that stuff.
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: You're just like, oh God, kill me, I gotta seriously, like,
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: because your experience is from when you're a kid, Like
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: what a waste of time.
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: But it's not at all.
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: When you go in there as a parent, you know
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: how your kid is at home. You don't know how
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: they are at school because you don't have a little
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: camera in their classroom where you can just sit around
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: and watch what they're like.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: So rich parents do, right, Yeah, maybe so, but.
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: You can really glean Like I think when you have
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: challenges with a kid at home as a parent, you're
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: dying to know if it's just you or if it's
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: just the way it is at home. In other words,
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: obviously not just the parent's fault, but you're wondering. So
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: you're you're like when we get in there with Ruby's teachers,
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: we're always just like, so, what's going on?
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: What was she like? Does she have trouble with this
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: or that?
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: And sometimes it's like, yeah, she has the same trouble
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: with this or that at home, And sometimes it's like no,
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: it's not at all at school.
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: And so it's really super enlightening.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that is super enlightening. Does it make you feel
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: better or is it more just like it just answers
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: the question that you have.
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, just I think you know, knowledge is power, So
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: just knowing that stuff that.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: Dude, we should start doing that with you and Jerry.
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: They needed to be adult versions of parent teacher conferences.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: Oh that's a great idea, you know, I would be
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: so anxious.
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: Oh no, it'd be good. We do it over drinks.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: Okay. One other thing, you can find a lot of
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: really great accurate diagnostic tests on sites like TikTok, which
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: have lots of misspelled words in the title. So those
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: are always really great to test whether you have ADHD
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: or not.
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: Be aware of that. I mean, social media stuff can help.
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: There's lots some good resources. But what was that study?
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: Like half of that stuff on TikTok was just wrong?
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, if I think fifty two yeah.
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: When it came to this, yeah, more than half.
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So one of the big questions that we're still
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: answering today, and if you haven't picked up that we
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: don't have a full grasp of ADHD in any way,
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: shape or form yet. That's correct. But one of the
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: factors that we're trying to figure out is the prevalence
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: of ADHD among kids and among adults, and it's kind
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: of all over the map. It does seem like we're
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: starting to kind of zero in a little bit. We're
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: figuring out like the criteria to really like to really
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: diagnose ADHD, and it seems like the numbers are starting
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: to get a little smaller as time goes on and
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: we get a little better with recognizing ADHD.
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and correct me if I'm wrong, because I know
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: that you found some other numbers, but we'll just go
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: through them and you can just say.
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: If I'm wrong.
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: Between ages of three and seventeen, so school age kids
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: in the US United States of America, around ten percent
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: have been diagnosed with ADHD. That number does get bigger
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: with age because a lot of times you won't get
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: tested until a little later, and some you know, diagnostic
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: testing requires money, and sometimes a lot of money.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: I mean, you can do.
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: Like a just a sort of a psychiatric evaluation maybe
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: if your kids go into a therapist or something, and
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: they may just look at criteria and ask a few questions.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: But if you want like.
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: A real deal diagnostic diagnostic evaluation, like those aren't cheap.
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: And that sucks because, like these numbers are kids who
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: have been diagnosed because they were able to be diagnosed.
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: So I'm sure there are a lot of situations where
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: that's not possible.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: There's also a shortage of psychiatrists in the United States,
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: so it's often there's a long wait list to even
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: be seen from that psychiatrist, so you have to pay
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: a lot of money too. Not all psychiatrists specialize in ADHD,
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: so you really need to find from an even like
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: smaller pool to choose from of psychiatrists. And then also
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: once they diagnose you that the outlay of money is
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: not over there, like you have to keep seeing them
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: and they charge you every time for that. And psychiatrists
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: are medical doctors, so their fees are not on the
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: par or on the order of a psychologist or a therapist.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: They're four or five times more on average. Probably I'm
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: pulling that out of thin air, but it's very clear
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: that you're going to pay more for your psychiatrists than
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: you would for a therapist.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: Generally still boys are more likely to get that diagnosis
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: than girls, about thirteen percent to six percent. There's also
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: variations by race. I believe the highest percentage Black kids
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: are at twelve percent, ten percent for White kids, eight
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: percent for Hispanic kids, and three percent for Asian children,
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: which is just super interest.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: It is interesting, for sure, and there's got to be
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: some clue in there somewhere like, Yeah, that seems like
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: there's that's weird that there's a difference because I think
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: all of those numbers were for kids in the United States.
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: I think globally they've come up within a twenty seventeen
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: study across the world that five almost five point three
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: percent of kids have ADHD. And there's a there's a
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: question like, Okay, is this over diagnosed because I said
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: that the prevalence rate seem to be kind of getting
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: a little smaller as we zero in better and better.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: But the diagnostic or the rates of diagnosis have really
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: picked up where they really did at the beginning of
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: the twenty first century. Between two thousand and five and
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: twenty fourteen, diagnoses of kids with ADHD doubled, doubled. That's crazy.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: That's a huge increase doubled. It's almost like one hundred
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: percent more.
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And you know, there's just no scientific consensus right
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: now on whether it's an over diagnosis or whether it's
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: just we know more now and there's less stigma. There's
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: more kids getting tested now there. You know, the criteria
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: changed in twenty thirteen from the DSM four to the
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: d S m five as far as that threshold, So
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: all of those things probably factor in.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: To the doubling.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: I would think, Yeah, one thing though, if you are
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: taking your kid into be tested, make sure that it's
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: since they kind of evaluate the kid against the expectations
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: of their grade level. If they're young for their grade, Yep,
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: that needs to be taken into account because they can
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: easily be misdiagnosed because they're actually not at that grade
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: level yet, because they're not of that age quite yet,
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: even though they're in that grade.
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and with COVID kids, you know, potentially missing out
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: on depending on what happened where you were, on a
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: lot of valuable school. So yeah, it's important to look
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: at because because Ruby is young for her grade, so
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: in some cases she's like eight or nine months younger
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: than some of her classmates. And then when you throw
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: even though she did COVID kindergarten, which was a real boon,
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: they did their best, they it wasn't like regular school. Still,
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: so teachers and educators are having to sort and parents
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: are having to sort through all of that.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: Still chuck.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: Just to kind of give a hat tip to some
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: of our listeners in other countries, I saw that the
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: NHS says in the UK five percent of kids have ADHD.
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: In Australia they estimate six to ten percent of kids
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: have ADHD, Canada rich five to seven percent.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: Not bad eh.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: And then our friends in Germany can expect a percentage
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: of four point three three for the number or for
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: the percentage of kids that have ADHD in that country.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: Funderbar.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: So what about adults, because as we now realize, adults
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: have ADHD too, or they probably had it in childhood
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: and it was just undiagnosed and they just didn't get
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: diagnosed until later in life. That's typically what happens.
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: Well, my friends, let's take a break and find out
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: those results right after this.
• 15:21
  Speaker 4: Definitely should.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: Childhood each other?
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: Y s K. Lately I've been learning some stuff about
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: insomnia or aluminia. How about the one on border like
• 15:43
  Speaker 4: disorder that are nder border that one before, but it
• 15:49
  Speaker 4: was so nice I learned this.
• 15:51
  Speaker 5: Why everybody listen, all right?
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: What a cliffhanger that was our adult listeners on the
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: edges of their collective seat seats seat collective seat.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, collective, yeah, because it's collective, collective soul.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: Collective soul. That's a good one.
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: The rate of the condition into adulthood is all over
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: the map. Some you might look at one thing that
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: says about five percent, because you know, that's kind of
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: what it is for kids, ish, and then you might
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: read something else that said, now like seventy five percent
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: adults have it. It's really really startling when you start
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: looking into this as an adult. There was a study
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: from twenty twenty one that found that it can fluctuate
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: over time, and you know, it's kind of what I
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: was talking about being on a spectrum. But about nine
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: percent of those diagnosed as kids, they said, had quote
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: unquot fully recovered in young adulthood. So I don't know
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: if what that means though that that like our systems
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: in place such that they've learned to manage it.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the weird thing is there's no known cure
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: for ADHD. All of the stuff that we use for
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: is just managing it. But I think one of the
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: reasons also that they were like it's just a childhood
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: disorder that you outgrow is because some people actually do so.
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: You actually can way, so that maybe the nine percent
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: or part of that nine percent.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: I guess, But to pull one of your old old
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: school wards and it seems shinky to me, like I
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: don't understand how. Yeah, I don't understand how you could
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: outgrow something that arises from your brain being literally different
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: than other people's brains. Yeah, I don't get it. But
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: maybe we just don't don't understand it quite yet. But
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: it is true. I'm not one hundred percent sure, but
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: for the most part, it does seem like if you
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: have ADHD as a kid, you have it as an
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: adult as well.
• 17:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and if you're in a adult with ADHD, you're
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: probably seeing it play out with organization and focus, you
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: know a lot of times with your job, but in
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: just in your life as well, because it's always there.
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: You might have some pretty severe mood swings. You might
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: be a procrastinator a lot of times, you're misdiagnosed because
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: it might make you really anxious. So there's like, now
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: you have anxiety or it might really bum you out
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: with these mood swings, and they might say, oh, you're
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: just depressed. All of that could just be ADHD or
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: a kill morbidity.
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and we'll talk about cole morbidities in a second.
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: I got it. But with adults, you know, again, the
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: adults don't get up in meetings and run around the
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: table and they're like, just go ahead, I'm listening, you know.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: Instead great, they're just going to sit there and just
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: you know, use all of their energy to not do that,
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: and then also to try to focus on what's being said.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: And then girls with ADHD, Chuck, tend to fall through
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: the cracks much more frequently for a couple of reasons,
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: but the main one that I saw is that girls
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: are so expected to be like demure and quiet and
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: self possessed that girls learn to mask their symptoms earlier
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: than boys do, who can get away with being more
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: rambunctious than girls can, so it goes undetected. And then
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: finally when they grow up and have a family, there's
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: like I can't there's too many plates, I can't do this.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: I'm just exhausted and I'm not doing any of this
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: the way that I'm supposed to be. And they'll usually
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: get diagnosed with depression and then anxiety or something like that,
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: but if they find the right doctor, they'll be properly
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: diagnosed as ADHD.
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: For sure.
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: You mentioned comorbidities. Autism is a very interesting one. Thirty
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: to eighty percent of people with autism spectrum disorder are
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: also diagnosed with ADHD. In about twenty to fifty percent
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: of people with ADHD also have autism spectrum disorder.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: And you're just like, why aren't they the same percentages?
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: But it turns out that ADHD is actually more common
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: than autism, so that, yeah, is solved.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: For sure, and there's a lot of overlap there.
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: I think before twenty thirteen with the updated criteria in
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: the DSM five, they thought that was like a mutually
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: exclusive thing, and some people this is much the minority
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: for sure, but there are some researchers that do think
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: it's just sort of a single condition manifesting in a
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: couple of different ways. But most researchers don't think that.
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: They think it's like, you know, two separate things that
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: live alongside one another a lot of times.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: Right, And Chuck, I just I just realized, I don't
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: know if we've shouted out Livia this whole time yet
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: for helping us out with this one. But she did
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: a great job.
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: She did a great job. And before I forget the other.
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: Thing, as far as ADHD and autism spectrum disorder is,
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: you're more likely to just do better if you have
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: one or the other than if you have both. That
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: may feel intuitive, but I think it was you know,
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: Bear saying.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: Did I interrupt and interject that Livia thing.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: No, it's fine.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: Depression is another one, Chuck. I think kids with are
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: people with ADHD are five times likelier to have depression
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: than neurotypical peers, and they're not exactly sure why. A
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: lot of people are like, well, it's obvious. I mean, like,
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: it can be a really hard life to have ADHD,
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: especially when it's undiagnosed and untreated, so of course people
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: have depression. Other people are like, no, we're talking about
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: actually like clinical, like brain based depression. It's possible that
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: there's actually they share similar roots in the structure of
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: the brain, and that might account for it that there's
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: a lot of overlap physically between depression and ADHD.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: And about forty percent of kids, and I think we
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: touched on this a little bit in Part one, also
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: have anxiety, which just makes it all tougher to deal
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: with because it kind of feeds on itself. Thirty to
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: fifty percent of kids with ADHD fit the criteria for
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: a couple of other conditions, one called oppositional defiant disorder
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: and conduct disorder, which we should maybe cover.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: We could probably cover both of those in one episode
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: at some.
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: Point, we should. Man One of the most heartbreaking things
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: I've ever seen in my life was on a plane
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: and this kid was just kicking the back of my
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: chair and on stop hard. And I turned around to you, like,
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: what the heck's going on?
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: You said, don't Josh, no, right, And.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: The parents were there with them, and they just gave
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: me a look like what do you want us to do?
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: We can't do anything. Yeah, And I've never seen two
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: people look more tired and more defeated in my life.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: And their kid was probably only three or four, and
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: it was just like, like I still today, I just
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: feel so bad for those people because that's your kid,
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: and like there's not a lot of understanding or treatment
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: with that, and certainly not out in the general public,
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: who turns around like you know, what are you doing?
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: Why is your kid doing that?
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: And in the old days, like you would tie your
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: kid to a plane seat or something a barbaric like.
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: That, yeah, which I'm sure helps a lot.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: All right, So.
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: If you don't have ADHD, like me, It helps you
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: grow older because you do get a little wiser and
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: you do gain empathy, hopefully at least I have. Yeah,
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: so it's hard to put yourself in someone's shoes until
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: you are close to someone with ADHD and then it,
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: like I said, it really benefit it's everyone you can
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: if you can lead with empathy and understanding, like in
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: your case with that kid even and that's coming from
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: someone with ad ADHD recognizing maybe this behavior and a kid.
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: But it can be hard if you don't have it
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: to understand this stuff.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So people like low empathy generally with people walking
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: around who know about autism or probably like yeah, that's
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: that's that has to do with autism. Turns out it's
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: a huge symptom with ADHD too, and probably the exact
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: same stuff applies to people with autism. But with ADHD,
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: it's not that you don't care, you couldn't care less
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: or whatever. You do care. You just either lack the
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: ability to, like you said, put yourself in that person's situation,
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: so your empathy can be triggered, or you lack emotional empathy,
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: which is where you're like, oh man, that's terrible that
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: that happened to you, but I'm not feeling empathy, Like
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: I don't feel it. That's the difference. They're not sure
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: how many people with ADHD have low empathy and exactly
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: how it works, but it is a huge problem because again,
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: like they're if you can't if you can't empathize with people,
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: that's a basic human thing, and that will really cut
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: down on the number of connections you have with people.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: Because if somebody's telling you something and they've just you know,
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: inserted that pop like the end of it, and like
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: this is what happened, and you're like, oh uh, like
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: you're just taking their words at face value and you're
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: losing the emotional component. It's missing, it's not landing on you.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: And they're just like, well, what is wrong with you?
• 25:40
  Speaker 4: What?
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: Like you did you not hear what I just said?
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: And you can stop and think about it and be like, oh, yeah,
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: that's crazy, but like in the moment, it's not, it's
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: not there.
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, totally another And this is something I never
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: knew anything about until we started researching this, but false
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: memory or falty memory can.
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: Be issue if you have ADHD.
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: And it's not just well I just don't remember things
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: as they really were.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: It can literally be like a false memory.
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: They've done tests with kids and they showed that kids
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: with ADHD are much more likely to remember things that
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: weren't on a list. And this is sort of the
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: key here. Not only that, but be really emphatic that
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: those memories were correct and trying to defend those memories.
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: And that can be not only a frustration, but a
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: real challenge, especially as you get into adulthood to sort
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: of be able to construct your autobiography of who you are,
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: because that's all based on your memories.
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because if you can accept that you have false
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: memories and that you embellish stuff that you don't remember
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: inadvertently you don't know that you're doing this, you start
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: to question all of your memories, like which ones are true,
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: which ones are made up. That's a huge problem individually,
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: but also as far as relationships go. You're accidentally inadvertently
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: gaslighting the people that you're like, no, that totally didn't happen,
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: or you said this, I didn't say that. And to
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: get to a point where you can trust the other
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: person's version of events what you're doing, you're having to
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: disavow your own version of reality and rely on somebody
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: else's version of reality. And that's probably the hardest mental
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: thing a person can do in their life, is abandoned,
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: like just like not trust their view of reality and
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: be like, okay, I trust your version instead. It's one
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: of the hardest things you could possibly ever do. And
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: that's what it requires to not accidentally gaslight people and
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: not get arguments all the time because your memories are false.
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and I imagine you know, you keep kind of
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: going back to this. How so much of this can
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: lead to a lack of ability to connect with people
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: in different ways. I imagine when you find your person
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: or your person's in your life, it may be maybe
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: a smaller number than it would have been otherwise, but
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: I'm I would think that maybe some of those connections,
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: because so much trust is involved, can be even deeper sometimes.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh, for sure, if you can find somebody that
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: you feel like you can be yourself around and just
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: let your guard down and they accept you as you
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: actually are, you hang on to those people for sure.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: And that's true whether you have ADHD or autism. For sure,
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: Like if that's how whenever you find those people. But
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: it's like you said, they're going to be much fewer
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: and farther between because you're lacking that initial easiness of like,
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: oh I like you, Oh I like you too, Let's
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: start hanging out more and cultivate a friendship naturally without
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: even thinking about it. Each relationship is a lot of
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: work for people with ADHD. So yeah, of course you're
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: going to have fewer of them.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: You and these are you know, we're kind of going
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: through just sort of like what it's like to live
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: with it. So some of these our downers, but you
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: are more I believe, twice as likely to be injured
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: in life if you have ADHD, which sounds kind of weird,
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: but it makes sense. You know, if you're distractive or distracted,
• 29:12
  Speaker 3: or if you're impulsive, if you take more risks, that's
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: going to lead to more injury in life. There's also
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: this very very strange thing called the ADHD sway, where
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: it's a literal physical imbalance, a postural imbalance that's associated
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: with ADHD, which could be a short stuff on its own, maybe.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: I think so you have found this hilarious video I
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: think on Instagram of somebody saying, like, what it's like
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: walking next to somebody with ADHD. And because the ADHD
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: person will accidentally walk in front of you or walk
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: like kind of sway too close to you or something
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: like that, you end up the guy who's like walking
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: along next to this girl who's talking to him, and
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: like he ends up having to like climb over like
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: a jungle. It ends up having to walk through a
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: bush and like all this all this stuff, and the
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: person with ADHD is totally oblivious that all this is
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: going on. But it's because of that that ADHD sway.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: They don't as far as I know, no one knows
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: exactly what it is, but they think it could have
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: something to do with the differences in brain structure, has
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: something to do with the balance as well, because it's
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: in the brain as well as in the ears.
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: Fascinating. All right, we're in.
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: The act one, two, three, four, five, We're headed toward
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: the act six.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: Wow, is this the one where the guns go off?
• 30:33
  Speaker 4: Oh?
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: I hope not.
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: So we're headed toward act six and we will talk
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: more about the destruction of masking behaviors right after this.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: Definitely large chrysk.
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: Lately, I've been learning some stop about in.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: Volume.
• 31:01
  Speaker 4: How about the one on border like disorder orner before
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: but it was so nicety e.
• 31:14
  Speaker 5: Body listen.
• 31:21
  Speaker 4: Stop.
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: So Chuck, you promised that we're going to talk about masking.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: So I feel like my back's against the wall. I
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: have to start talking about masking, which I will right now.
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: Okay, okay, are you masking right now?
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: Sure?
• 31:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: I think at all times people with ADHD mask to
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: varying degrees. For sure. I feel very comfortable on the episode.
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: But you know, yeah, I didn't mean to put you
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: on the spot. I was kind of just joking. What
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: is masking? Let me ask you.
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: That masking is camouflaging your symptoms to blend in better.
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: And how bad can that get? And how bad is
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: that for somebody?
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: In some ways it's necessary and needed just to navigate
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: the world just to blend in and not to blend
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: in like don't look at me, but to seem but
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: to be able to interact with people in levels that
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: they're not like, huh, what's wrong with you? They're paying
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: attention instead to what you're saying or you know, the
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: value that you have. Yeah, you have to if you
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: have ADHD and autism. A lot of neurotypical disorders, if
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: not all of them require you to mask to be
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: able to just kind of live in the world. Right,
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: So in that sense, it stinks. And there's a lot
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: of I think you kind of mentioned it either earlier
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: in Part one. Some employers are starting to create more neurodiverse,
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: inclusive workplaces where it's just like, just be yourself. But traditionally,
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: if you want to just make it in the world,
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: you have to mask to some degree, right, And so
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: in that sense that's okay, or at the very least
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: that's not the most insidious version of masking. The problem
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: with that is that starts to carry over throughout other
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: parts of your life, and you find that you eventually
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: develop a version of yourself that you assume other people
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: would prefer to be around, and in a lot of
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: cases you're probably correct. And so in addition to, you know,
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: all of the exhaustingness that it keeps from not you know,
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: getting up and running around the conference table during a
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: meeting and being like, now go ahead, I'm just keep going,
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: I'm listening you. You. Also, your self esteem takes a
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: real nose dive because what you're training yourself is that
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: your you is not good enough. You have to you
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: have to hide yourself for people to accept you or
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: value you. That's the most insidious part of masking.
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I can't imagine that to even It can get
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: so bad where you lose your sense of self because
• 33:53
  Speaker 3: you're masking so much. Obviously, something like this can manifest
• 33:57
  Speaker 3: in bad ways. Swings, anger, those are symptoms that can
• 34:03
  Speaker 3: be associated with ADHD because of the masking, and you know,
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: regulating those mood swings. Being unable to to be sort
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: of generally in a stable emotional state can be very,
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: very challenging, and that takes a lot of energy. And
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: that's part of the fatigue that can come along with
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: ADHD is you're if you're always on or playing a
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: role that you think you should play to fit into
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: work or life for the world, it's got to be exhausting.
• 34:35
  Speaker 4: It is.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: So you're more irritable, So you're more prone to like
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: get mad at somebody who cut you off in traffic,
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: whereas like a neurotypical person might be like, huh, that
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: guy's having a bad day, or what a jerk or
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: something like that. You know, Yeah, you add all this
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: stuff together, and research consistently shows that people with ADHD
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: have lower self esteem and lower self compassion too than
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: neurotypical people. And that's yeah again, like I said, it's
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: a really insidious part of ADHD and just being neurodiverse
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: in general. Again, it's not just ADHD people who have
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: to mask. Anybody who isn't neurotypical will feel like they
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: have to mask at least in some situations unless they
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: make a conscious decision not to do that. It's almost
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: like resisting an impulse and just being like, I am
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: going to be me in every situation, and to tell
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: you the truth, I'm not even sure that that's possible.
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and resisting impulses one of the challenges anyway.
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, exactly, good point.
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: So you know, as far as families go, we already
• 35:40
  Speaker 3: mentioned that that can you know, family members maybe on eggshells.
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: There have been studies that have shown that you may
• 35:48
  Speaker 3: have a lower parental warmth and especially maternal warmth toward
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: a kid with ADHD, which is super sad, more stress,
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: more depression they found among among mothers especially, And if
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: you have like one neurodiverse child, one kid with ADHD,
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: and two or three other kids or just one other
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: kid who is neurotypical, that can be really challenging for everybody,
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: including the neurotypical kid. And they have found adults with
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: ADHD have about a twice as likely a chance of
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: getting divorced as a neurotypical couple.
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: Right, So, yeah, there's a lot of challenges just in
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: living everyday life at home, even not even just at
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: work or at the mall or something like that. There's
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: some other real bummer downsides to having ADHD. As a population,
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: you're very susceptible to addiction because again, like these things
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: flood your brain with dopamine, so you learn to do
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: those over and over and over again. So it's really
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: easy to get addicted to just about anything if you
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: have ADHD. There's a study of people who were in
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: treatment in the US. I can't remember when it was conducted,
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: but they found a quarter of them had ADHD and
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: another quarter. Between twenty four percent and sixty two percent
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: of homeless people in the US were found to have
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: ADHD despite again only maybe three point one percent of
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: adults globally having the disorder, so they're disproportionately represented in those.
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for surations. So here's the good news, everybody.
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: We've been through five acts and a third of some
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: good things, some bad things, and real challenges.
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: We cried, we laughed, we cried.
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: For sure, it's a very, in fact, one of the
• 37:45
  Speaker 3: most highly treatable conditions or disorder.
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: I don't even like saying disorder, you know.
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: But I guess that's how they list it that you
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: can have. There are a few things you can do
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: treatment wise. There is coaching, there's therapy, and there's medication.
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: You may try one of these things, you might try two,
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: you might try all three. As an individual or a parent,
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: if you're helping your kid through the situation.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: Well that's the most effective usually is all three of those.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, medication can be very effective.
• 38:21
  Speaker 3: As of twenty sixteen, sixty two percent of kids in
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: the US that are diagnosed were on medication, thirty percent
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: of those were only on medication, thirty two percent were
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: on medication and behavioral treatment, and fifteen percent shunned the
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: medication and just did behavioral treatment.
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: And that's kind of understandable for a parent to make
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: a decision, and that many parents to make the decision
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: like I don't want to put my kid on speed. Yeah,
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: because again, like central nervous system stimulants are the go
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: to drug for treating ADHD because it really really works.
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: It's like flip a light switch, I understand, where like
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: just even from the first dose, you're like, oh, this
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: is what it feels like to be neurotypical. And one
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: of those stimulants that is prescribed one type adderall vivance straterra,
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: they are literal amphetamines. So the idea of putting your
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: kid on amphetamines really does not sit right with a
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: lot of parents, even though the state of understanding the
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: consensus in the professional ADHD community, despite a lot of
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: non professionals giving contrary advice for information, Yeah, study after
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: study has shown that kids on stimulants for ADHD treatment
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: do not get addicted to those stimulants, Like it just
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: doesn't happen. And then it also doesn't set them up
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: for increased addictions later in life, and it may actually decrease.
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: Some studies of show the proneness to addiction of other
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: stuff later in life even too. And I don't want
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: to be just like a lackey for psychostimulants as ADHD treatment.
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of different info out there, but from
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: what I could tell when I researched it for this.
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: The professional community generally agrees they are not harmful to
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: be on, even long term.
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there are a couple of kinds. There's immediate release
• 40:26
  Speaker 3: medicines that's sort of as needed, like a maybe up
• 40:30
  Speaker 3: to four hour effective time window. You may crash really
• 40:36
  Speaker 3: hard after that or get really tired or depressed after that.
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: There are extended release medications that's sort of the morning
• 40:44
  Speaker 3: pill that can last all day. Sometimes sometimes it's six hours,
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: sometimes it's up to sixteen. Sometimes people tag team those
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: take that pill in the morning and then either as
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: needed or in the afternoon or evening one of the
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: immediate release medicines. And you have to get screened, you know,
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: for something like this. They're going to do like a
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: cardiovascular screen for health risks and stuff like that. But
• 41:11
  Speaker 3: it's sort of I believe they haven't found link to
• 41:13
  Speaker 3: cardiovascular disease, right, But didn't they there was something about
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: the heart you found that was contrary to that, right.
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah. There's a study in the Journal of the American
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: Medical Association that I think from like twenty twenty three
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: that was like, actually, we studied some dudes in Sweden,
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: and it seems like they were at an increased risk
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: of cardiovascular disease from long term psychostimulant use for ADHD.
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: So again it's possible that we just don't know enough
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: or people haven't been on it long enough. But again,
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: these things were developed in the fifties and kids have
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: been on them since the seventies eighties at the latest
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: when they started putting them on well effectively speed to
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: treat this stuff. And there doesn't seem to be a
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: lot of research that suggests they are harmful.
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: Right, if you don't respond well of those, if the
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: side effects are no good, there are other medicines that
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: you can take that are not stimulants alpha antagonists sometimes
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: sometimes like they found that some medications to treat high
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: blood blood pressure like clonidine, have you know, improved ADHD symptoms.
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: So you know, talk to your doctor if this is
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: something you're interested in, and you know, just we're not
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: medical professionals, so you know, speak, speak to your doctor
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: and like really do some research and dig in. It's
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: you know, putting your kid or your adult self on
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: a on any kind of medication, it's not something to
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: take lightly. So just you know, really really dig in
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: there and ask questions.
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: For sure, and no no shade on you if you're
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: a parent, that's like, I don't care what you say.
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: I'm not putting my kid on speed for sure, totally
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: totally get that. Like I respect anybody's to about that,
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: because it doesn't mean that you don't care about your kid.
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: I respect anybody's decision about stuff like that.
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: Of course.
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: So I said that the most effective I guess approach
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: to treating ADHD is not just medication, but also different
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: types of therapy and then also some other interventions like
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: exercise and nutrition, and when you put all that together,
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: it's much easier to treat ADHD symptoms. And one of
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: the first things, especially with kids with ADHD, is family training,
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: where you teach the family how to teach the kid
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: how to act and behave like what's expected of them,
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: what the consequences are, and not just the kid, the
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: whole family is supposed to fully understand and be very
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: clear on all of the house rules and the structure
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: of the family. And I guess so the younger kids
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: can effectively tell on the kid with ADHD when he
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: misbehaves or she does. And I saw the authoritative parenting
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: type is the most effective, which was described as high
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: control with high warmth and high support. Oh interesting, but
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: also that means okay, so high warmth, right, does that
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: mean that some parents make a decision to not be
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: warm to their kids, like they think that that's the
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: best way to raise kids?
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: Well, I mean, sadly, sure there are all kinds of parents,
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: but I feel like that probably high warmth probably means
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: extra warmth, like being really attuned to providing that extra
• 44:31
  Speaker 3: warmth would be my.
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: Guests on fire, like a furnace of a parent.
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: You mentioned exercise.
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: Of course, that's good for everybody when it comes to
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: mood regulation and your brain functioning at its highest. But
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: for sure, if you have ADHD, it can increase dopamine,
• 44:51
  Speaker 3: it can improve your executive functioning. If you have a
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: lot of pen of energy, especially if you're a kid,
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: you know, with hyperactivity, exercise can really can really help
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: for sure.
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: Coaching is another one too, this therapy obviously, but coaching
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: is huge in the ADHD community because you're not like, Okay,
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: what's wrong with you, Let's figure out all your traumas
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: and stuff like that. It's like, okay, you're having trouble
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: with time management, Let's figure out what works for you
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: for getting better at time management. It's a it's a
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: legitimate way to approach ADHD symptoms. So are productive strategies
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: where that will probably also come out of coaching sessions.
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: And one thing that you'll learn very early on is
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: phone calendars that are easily accessed, that you can put
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: reminders on all the time, alarms on your phone, anything
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: that can remind you can become like second nature to
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: use it to really help you navigate ADHD symptoms and
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: remember important stuff.
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: Systems, baby, that's the key, that's right, Getting systems in
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: place ADHD or not. Systems are just the older I get,
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: the more I realize it. If you don't have a
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: system in place, then you're just you're just flailing.
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: You know. You got to get a system. They did,
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: you know, outcomes are pretty good.
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: There was a survey This is a little bit old,
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: but it's you know, I think it's probably still pretty
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: pretty on par. But twenty twenty twenty twelve, twenty twelve
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: survey of three hundred and fifty one English language studies,
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: So I guess this is like a meta analysis of
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: long term outcomes of people with ADHD found that seventy
• 46:33
  Speaker 3: two percent of people treated had improved outcomes when it
• 46:36
  Speaker 3: comes to everything from self esteem to fewer accidents behind
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: the wheel, less rates of addiction, anti social behavior, increased employment,
• 46:46
  Speaker 3: increased academic success. So seventy two percent if you are treated,
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: that's that's great, that's really successful.
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot of good resources too for ADHD.
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: There's a researcher named Melissa Orlov. She holds marriage seminars
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: that really kind of paint ADHD in an almost exclusively
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: positive light. And if you were a couple that's tried
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: like traditional marriage counseling, you've been like, this isn't working.
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: It's because that stuff's geared toward neurotic typical people. Hers
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: is geared toward neurodiverse people. Melissa Orlov is very frequently
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: criticized as being overly positive about ADHD. There's a researcher
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: named Gina Perla who came out with a much more
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: balanced look. It seems like an ADHD called is it
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: You Me or adult ADHD, which is a yeah. And
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: then Russell Barkley has written a lot of books too
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: for kids and parents and adults, and he was the
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: president of the American Psychological Association for a while, so
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: he's no slouch no, And again, be very wary of
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: who you're listening to on social media. But there are
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: psychiatrists who specialize in ADHD who post a lot on
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: social media. And Kim be really helpful on Instagram too
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: that I wanted to shout out Perry Nichols mandanis it's great.
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: And then the psych doctor Md. Sasha Hamdani, she has
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: ADHD yourself and she wrote a book called Self Care
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: for People with ADHD.
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: All great resources, and you know what, let's skip listener
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: email all together and just encourage people to support one another,
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: dig into those resources, try and lead with empathy and understanding.
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: You get much further in life. And rate and review
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: our show.
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: Well put Chuck very nice. In the meantime, if you
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: want to get in touch with us, you can email us.
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: You can send us that email to stuff podcast at
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: iHeartRadio dot com.
• 48:49
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• 48:52
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• 48:56
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