Latest / The Dr. Sarah Hensley Show / Episode 51, Season 2: How Trauma Lives in the Mind & Body — And Shapes Your Relationships

Transcript

Episode 51, Season 2: How Trauma Lives in the Mind & Body — And Shapes Your Relationships · The Dr. Sarah Hensley Show

• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Love Dog Podcast. I'm your co host
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: Rayna Butcher here with our host, Doctor Sarah Hensley, and listen. Guys.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Let me just start by saying, if you love listening
• 0:20
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• 0:24
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• 0:25
  Speaker 2: You have no idea how much.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: So much so. If you're listening usually I get it.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: If you're like on an airplane, that's usually when you download.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: But just download it. If you are a big fan
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: of this podcast, download it just for the sake of us.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: It helps us tremendously. And just a few more announcements
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: before we get started. Guys, we're at the tail end here.
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: We're rebranding. We're going into this whole new phase of
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: the podcast of the business. This is soon going to
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: be the Doctor Sarah Hensley Show. We're gonna have our
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: new studio.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: Up and running, and it is the bomb.
• 0:58
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• 0:59
  Speaker 2: I have chosen the decourse style of old Hollywood regency,
• 1:06
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• 1:10
  Speaker 2: Monroe era when you come into the podcast. It's going
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: to be a whole content creation space, not just the
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: podcast studio, but it's gits, it's clam it's bold, it
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: is bright, it's going to be amazing.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and we we haven't done the best job in GET.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: We had so many ideas. We're like, we're going to
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: get so much content the before and afters, and yeah,
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: that's been hard to do because we're working, we're running
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: this business. So but I think the before and afters
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: are going to be a lot of fun. I mean,
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: we've gotten some before's and we're going to completely transform it.
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: It's going to be awesome.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: You guys should see what a pole it was.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I've definitely seen worse, for sure. But
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: it needed some work. It's still needs some work. We
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: got a lot of work to do, a whole lot
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: like this weekend. Yeah, yeah, and probably next and maybe
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: the next. But we are I'm confident that, you know,
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: as we wrap up this season by mid June, when
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: we start season three, we'll be in there.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll be in there. Oh for sure.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll be in there for sure. And we're right
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: at the beginning of May or now, so lots to
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: do in the meantime. But of course today that's not
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: the topic of this podcast. The topic of this podcast
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: is something way more serious than that, which is trauma.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: Trauma. We had a request to talk about trauma, and
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: it all came from someone who said, I read that
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: the Body doesn't keep score, which is a very famous
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: book on trauma and how it affects the body. The
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: brain keeps score, but in the body is the scorecard.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: And they were only partially right there. And I know
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: that we want to simplify things and say, Okay, the
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: brain interprets everything and the body is where it manifests.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: But really the trauma is stored in the brain. But
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: that's really only half true because the brain and the
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: body are so interconnected that we cannot tease them apart,
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: and everything is really a feedback loop. So first, let's
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: just talk about what trauma is. End the first question
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: into sort of that nuance of is it in the brain?
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: Is it in the body? Where do we store our trauma?
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: Why people experience it differently than others, Yes, for sure.
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: So essentially, I think the best definition of trauma that
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: I could come up with is anything that is too
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: much or too little and the nervous system cannot cope,
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: So we go into these adaptive strategies. Everybody's heard of
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: fight or flight, we also have something called freeze or
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: dorsal vagel shut down. Those are sort of our initial
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: trauma reactions, but they can become prolonged long term. The
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: majority of my clients that I see are in some
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: degree of functional freeze, so they're in some degree of
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: running the fight or flight program, but also some freeze
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: or shut down mixed in there. And I kind of
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: like to think of the two systems of fighter flight
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: and freeze as like a hot and cold faucet. Right,
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: you have two levers. One's the hot water, one's the
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: cold water. They can run at the same time, but
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: whichever is turned on more is going to dominate.
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: So, somebody that's in functional freeze can be very productive
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: at work, but they're totally mentally checked out. They're totally dissociated.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: They're just going through the motions. They're not connected to
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: their bodies, to their emotions, to their own thoughts very well.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: It's hard for them to connect deeply to others. They
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: have these sort of surface level interactions. It's all about
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: just kind of putting your head down and plowing through.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: And I think so many people can relate to living
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: life like that. Because it keeps you disconnected from the
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: people that you love, keeps you disconnected from joy. Joy
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: is only a state you can access when your nervous
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: system feels safe. So another interesting thing about trauma. Well,
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: first I think we should delineate the types of trauma.
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: So we have like shock traumas, which are big, one
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: time events that deeply affect your nervous system, like a
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: car accident or a sexual assault or something like that.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: And we can have true classic PTSD, which is sort
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: of a hypervigilant nervous system that's in fight or flight,
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: but usually it's accompanied by flashbacks of the event, small
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: triggers that give you a really big emotional response. But
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: a lot of people that I see have more complex trauma,
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: So it's trauma that has been prolonged, and it is
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: usually a mix of little t trauma and big trauma
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: that has kind of been intermingled for a sustained period
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: of time, and that just has different types of effects.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: Well, and that makes sense because that's usually how relational
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: trauma absolutely best. For sure, it's overtime.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: Yes, And I have this hypothesis that the majority of
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: people with complex trauma that are diagnosed with ADHD, are
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: misdiagnosed with ADHD, and really they just have complex trauma
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: because one of the big symptomology pieces of complex trauma
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: is problems with executive functioning, working memory, inhibition, planning, organization.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: So you might just think, oh, I have ADHD. Everybody
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: thinks they have ADHD. Everybody they have everybody. But I
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: think so many people have complex trauma. I know that
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: that's true for my fifteen year old who is quote
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: unquote ADHD, and I think I havequote unquote ADHD. But
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: it's really just complex trauma. Same and it's really hard
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: for people to understand what it's like to live in
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: a brain and a body that kind of continuously fails you,
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: and then you a lot of times, as the survivor,
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: attribute it to these stable personality characteristics like I'm just lazy,
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: or I'm just emotionally unstable and I can't get my
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: stuff together, or I am just super disorganized and that's
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: just who I am. Yeah, But really it's not who
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: you were meant to be. It's how you have adapted
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: to things that have happened to you. So your nervous
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: system is sort of stuck in this adaptive trauma response,
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: and it just doesn't know how to let go of it,
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: even though the danger might be gone. For example, I've
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: been out of this abusive relationship for six years seventy
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: year years now seven years, but six years since his death,
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: and I still have some trauma symptoms, not even close
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: to what I had before. So I think recovery is possible,
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: But I don't think like complete recovery, as in this
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: never happened to you and you were brand new again,
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: is really possible. I think it's more of a sort
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: of like if you had a bad wound, you know,
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: there's still going to be it might not be gaping
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: and bleeding, there's some scars, there's some scar tissue there.
• 8:34
  Speaker 2: At least that's how I look at my life. And
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of people who have maybe been
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: an abusive relationships or undergone a lot of attachment trauma.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: And that's one of the hardest parts of my job
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: is like I hear the most horrific relational trauma stories
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: known to man. I can't imagine, especially with my one
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: to one clients.
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: I can't imagine. I mean, I've heard some of them
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: just talking the phone with people that you know, are
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: potential clients and you know, hearing their stories and that's tough.
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: It's really tough.
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like I can't even imagine some things that
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: people have gone through, and I'm like, how are you
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: still sitting here? And they have so much shame and
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: so much blame, And that is what is so sad
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: about it is I'm like, look at what you've been
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: through and you're criticizing yourself. Yeah, you should be applauding
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: yourself for even sitting here in front of me today.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: You have a job, Oh my gosh, you're parenting, you're
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: doing great.
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: You're not a drug addict and addicted to heroin Like
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: that's I mean seriously.
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: I mean because a lot of people.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: Would be absolutely or an alcoholic or yeah.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: And so if you're if you're functioning, if you're getting
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: up every day and you're not addicted, and you're not homeless,
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: and you're holding a job and you're parenting, like, good
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: for you.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah. If you sit on the couch for a couple
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: hours to stop beating yourself up, I mean I'm so
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: guilty of that. If I'm not at all times being
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: super super productive.
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: And that's a traumas bond, and it comes from internalized
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: shame that I'm not allowed to rest. I'm not good
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: enough if I'm not this productive all the time. Yeah,
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: you got to be able to let go that. Yeah,
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: Like I own it was a lot like that when
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: I first met Donald, and it was something I was
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: still working through, you know. I mean I was only
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: a year out of my major breakdown when I met Donald,
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: and are a little bit over a year out. And
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: one of the things he was like was like, rest
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: is okay. Yeah, it's okay to be on the couch
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: all day and take a weekend and just like be
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: lazy and that's.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: Okay, and do nothing.
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: And do nothing.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And especially after you've had like prolonged like even
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: if they're little tea traumas, you know, even even some
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: of the things that we've recently been through, you know,
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: it's like my nervous system has had to recalibrate from
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: those things. And so I find myself like some days, like,
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: you know, I wasn't as productive as I should have
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: been today and trying to tell myself, you know, that's okay,
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: it's okay. Yeah, yeah, it's okay.
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: It is so a lot of people don't recognize their trauma,
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: which I think is also interesting, maybe because I'm so
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: hyper aware, like this is my area of expertise, right,
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: and I always forget. I'm like, not everybody studies this
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: stuff for a living, right, And to me it's just
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: so elementary. But to other people, they're just walking into
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: this world of understanding maybe if what's happened to them
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: in childhood. It can be things like chronic unpredictability. That's
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: something I dealt with in childhood with my dad being bipolar.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: It was just so unpredictable what version of him you
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: were going to get, because maybe he was a little manic,
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: maybe he was a little depressed, maybe he was angry,
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: maybe he was super happy. You just never knew. And
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: so that chronic unpredictability, especially in childhood, creates hyper vigilance
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: because you have to pick up on cues so fast
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: to know what version of somebody you're going to get
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: so that you can do the right thing to stay safe.
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: And oftentimes it's not really what happened to us, but
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: it's the version of the person we have to become
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: to adapt. And I'm always trying to map out my
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: own traits, my own previous traits, some current traits that
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: I still have, and where did those come from? It
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: just that part of me never turns off. That's a
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: psychologist in me that maybe is just always going to
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: be curious. But really having an unpredictable caregiver like my
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: mom was very predictable, so I kind of always knew
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: what I was going to get from my mom. But
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: my dad was just all over the place, and it
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: frustrated my mom so much, and so much of their
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: marital discord was I think a result of him being
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: very unpredictable, and probably I love you Mom so much,
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: her being emotionally unavailable and just shutting him out because
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: it was her own protective survival response and she was
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: kind of a da so.
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: And that probably at times made him more reactive.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: One hundred percent. It was the Fada cycle.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: My parents were the same exact way we were. We
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: were literally raised the same exact way, except it's just
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: the genders were reversed right pretty much yep.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: And so it can look like that chronic unpredictability, It
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: could look like emotional neglect. And I find it fascinating
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: again that when people go through my program, they were
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: like I had no idea that I was raised with
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: emotional neglect until I actually tell them what emotional attunement
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: is supposed to look like. Yeah, and then they were like,
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: holy crap, I got none of that. That never happened
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: for me, never, And so they were wondering, why do
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: I struggle so much to be close to my partner?
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: Why am I so hyper independent? Why do I choose
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: myself all the time over my partner when I don't
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: mean to hurt them. I just don't even think about them.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: I think of myself first, and they have shame over that.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: So healing DA will very much have shame over I
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: didn't even think about them when I was running late
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: to call them, Like, it just didn't occur to me
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: to reach out when I was on that trip for
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: a couple of days. They were so focused on their trip, right,
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: So it's just one of those things where they don't
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: realize that they are so self focused, And then when
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: they realize that they were, and they're healing and they're
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: actually in a place where they can take accountability, then
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: they have to actually work through the shame. Then that
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: comes up instead of just and that's the hard feeling
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: defective suppressing their shame and then getting more distant humiliation.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: I experienced an event in my childhood that was extremely
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: humiliating and my dad was responsible for it, and I
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: still think about it to this day. I still think
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: about it and it makes me sick to my stomach.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: I have a few of those two and I'm.
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: Just like, I would never have done that to my child, Yeah,
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: what my dad did to me? AnyWho. This podcast is
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  Speaker 2: You and I have experienced betrayal, and essentially having dysfunctional
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: caregivers gives you the betrayal wound because you can't trust,
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: You can't trust that love is safe, love is painful.
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: Your caregiver becomes both a source of love and of pain,
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: and that becomes enmeshed, and that is why the nervous
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: system becomes disorganized. That's where the old term for fearful
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: avoidance came from, disorganized attachment. The nervous system does operate
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: in this disorganized fashion of wanting connection and then pushing
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: it away or chasing it and then sabotaging it. Because
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: you had to essentially learn what do I need to
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: be in this very moment to have the best chance
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: of safe connection, and that could look very different depending
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: upon what the moment was. So if my dad was angry,
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: it looked like staying out of his way. If my
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: dad was happy, it looked like trying to come talk
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: to him. Or he gives feelings hurt that you weren't
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: talking to him, or you know, if he was checked out,
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: it was like, don't bother him because he'll just be annoyed.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: So I had to learn to change up my strategy
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: of trying to connect, to try to get connection. And
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: eventually what it just ended up happening with my dad
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: was the relationship entirely just eroded. By the time I
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: was in high school. I wanted nothing to do with him. Yeah,
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: and I basically hated his guts, And I hated his
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: guts until I did my own healing, and then it
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: wasn't hate anymore. It was tolerance with boundaries. Yeah.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: I remember, you know, close to when he passed. You know,
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: you were struggling, I think at that time, and this
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: was after all the stuff that had happened. But man,
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: you held it together so much better than you would
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: have oh gosh, yeah previously.
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: Oh oh gosh, yeah, because I had forgiven him. Yeah,
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: I truly believe. Brene Brown asks this question, and I
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: find it fascinating. Do you believe that people do the
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: best they can do? Do you believe that everybody is
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: out there doing the best they can do? It's a
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: very philosophical question I do. I do too, and Donald
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: disagrees with me. He's like, you really think that somebody
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: who like we watched this one got on TikTok. My
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: husband's TikTok is dramatically different than mine, Okay, Like the
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: algorithms are night and day. So we often lay in
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: bed and just watch his TikTok together a little bit,
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: because his is funny and mine is all like personal
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: development because it knows what I do and it thinks
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: that's all I want to hear. So and there's this
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: one dude on there and he's like unemployed. He's in
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: his twenties. He's unemployed, but he monetizes as a content creator.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: But his life is just out freaking landish. It's just like,
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: so I woke up, I choked a couple of beers,
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: and then I went to play basketball, and then I
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: got McDonald's and I like, he'll like prank the McDonald's person.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: And then he comes home and he just plays video
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: games and he just like do makes these like wacky
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: doodle type projects, and he's just all over the place
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: and he just basically gives zero f's right about his
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: life and I'm just like, Okay, this guy is just
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: living the his just complete authenticity, give zero f's type
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: of life that most people could never ever ever be
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: comfortable living. But yet all a traumatized person wants to
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: do is be able to be themselves. And that is
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: the one thing you can't be when you grow up
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: with betrayal trauma from your parents is yourself. You have
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: to be so adapted.
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: It's the chameleon.
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: And it happens in an abusive relationship as well. So
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: what version of yourself do you have to become to
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: survive an abusive relationship? And I can look back on
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: my abusive relationship and see many versions of myself.
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, versions of myself that I didn't even recognize.
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I started out as the people pleaser. That's who
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: I started out as. When I was married, I wanted
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: to be the perfect housewife. I wanted to make these
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: elaborate meals for my husband. I wanted him to come
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: home to a beautiful house. Not to mention, I'm in
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: graduate school working my butt off, but I looked at
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: my parents' marriage and my mom did everything, So I
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: just took on that PERSONA women do everything, That's what
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: they do they serve their husbands, And actually, biblically it's
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: supposed to be the other way around. Husbands are supposed
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: to serve their wives. Yeah, They're supposed to be servant
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: hearted towards their wives, and women are supposed to be
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: protective of their husbands. Yeah. And then it got flip
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: flopped when the world fell. But anyway, that's a religious,
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: I should say, spiritual discussion. And then I became I
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: shrunk down. That was the second version of myself. When
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: the abuse really started, I shrank, and then more towards
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: the end, I was definitely the fighter. When I had
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: absolutely had enough and I did not care anymore, I
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: fought back so hard. I fought back physically, I fought back,
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: I mean verbally, I would yell, I would screw, he
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: would throw things, so I would throw things, and I
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: you know, there was obviously physical abuse. There was times
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: though that like when I would find affairs that I
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: became physically abusive. It was awful.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I get it.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: I mean not nearly to the extent he was. I
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: can think of really only one time where I was
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: physically abusive. It was bically riched uncomp for it.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: Was mostly reactive abuse for sure.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: It was It wasn't abuse at that point, but I
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: still take responsibility for the fact that I stayed and
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: got to the point where I was reactively abusive.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: I had a very similar timeline with my ex, but
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: it was more like people pleaser. I wanted to And
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: it's interesting because that part, that part of like being
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: the perfect housewife, was really really hard for me, probably
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: maybe the hardest out of all of them. Then I
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: became the fighter. It was like a perfect housewife fighter,
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: and the last stage was just.
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: Out.
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: I'm just like I would still do things out of
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: feeling coers to do them, but like there was no
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: feeling behind it. I don't know, yeah, frozen, Yeah, it
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: was completely That last stage was just not Yeah.
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: And so a lot of people don't see their trauma.
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: A lot of people don't understand it. And your nervous
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: system does not care if somebody else had it worse.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: And that's I think the biggest excuse I hear people
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: make for their trauma, which is while other people have
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: it worse, So what your nervous system doesn't care. Yeah,
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: your nervous system does not care if you had a
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: bipolar parent and somebody else was sexually assaulted. Yes, objectively,
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: is sexual assault like extremely bad and one of the
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: worst things I think somebody can go through. Absolutely, But
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: your nervous system doesn't care. Your nervous system is responding
• 22:51
  Speaker 2: to your trauma, not what somebody else had that was worse.
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: And it does change the nervous system. We have chronic
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: sympathetic activation, some dorsal veigel shut down, definitely hypervigilance. But
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: when we see it happen in real life, it looks
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: like overthinking a text. It looks like replaying conversations over
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: and over again in your head. It looks like checking
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: someone's tone. It looks like assuming rejection. It looks like
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: the inability to relax. Yeah, it can look like so
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: many things that we have normalized. Panicking when somebody pulls away,
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: emotional numbness, when you're just fed up with something that
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: is all lack of resolution in the nervous system. It's
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: all lack of resolution. And that is why emotional completion
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: and nervous system resolution is such a huge thing that
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: I teach because it's the only thing that actually heals,
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: because trauma keeps your nervous system stuck in danger mode.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: Bottom line fight flight freeze responses and functional freeze.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: Thinks it's being chased by the bear.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, at some point, but the way that it plays
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: out in real life just looks like the way normal
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: people struggle.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: And then in the body, in the body, it plays
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: out and so it can play out in so many
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: different ways, right it can.
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: And so let's let's talk a little bit about that,
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: because the person who requested this episode specifically found a
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: quote that said the body doesn't keep score, the brain does.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: The body is the scorecard, meaning that the brain is
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: the one that is constantly giving out the signals and
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: they just play out in the body. But that's actually
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: not the whole picture. It's a very uneducated statement. There
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: is always a feedback loop. So for example, I wish
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: we had a pen or a pencil. I could demonstrate
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: this on TV.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: I have a TV.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: I just like TV TV. We're streaming. Do you have
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: a pen? I do, give me a pen, stand by,
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: I'll clean it with a with a wipe when I'm done.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: I know, I just put a pin in here the
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: other day.
• 25:09
  Speaker 2: Look at you cute little parts part so much.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: If anybody can see it, YouTube can see it. So
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: my Mother's Day gift to myself. Guys.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: I know. Oh wait, yes here it a little lipliner work.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: It will anything that will work. Okay, if you do this,
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: mm hmm, you look cute.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: Uh huh, you look so cute.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: Your brain sends feedback that you are happy. Why because
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: it mimics the muscles activating that you activate when you smile.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: Huh.
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: It's a little hack to get in a better mood.
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: It's called a facial feedback hypothesis. So essentially there's a
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: feedback loop where the brain is interpreting the muscle activation
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: as predictive of your food state and then actually responds
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: as if you're in that mood.
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: So this shit blows my mom up, guys. It makes
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: it fascinating.
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: So the same thing is true for things like your fascia,
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: which is the sort of structural scaffolding of your body
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: getting quote locked into place when you've had trauma. So
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: one of the things I'm still working on. And I
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: want to buy that viral sports bra that' supposed to
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: correct your posture.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: What I never heard about it.
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: I heard about the hunchies. I have the hunchies, So
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: I have chronic trauma posture. Which is chess caved in,
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: shoulders forward, because I was so used to cowering in
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: any defensive response for ten years, and so my natural
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: posture is hunched forward and I need to just be
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: able to put my shoulders back, and I try to
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: correct it. But when I notice that I'm just regulated,
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: I notice that posture. But so the answer to the
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: question is does the body keep score? The answer is yes.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: And does the brain keep score? The answer is yes,
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: they both do. They feed back to each other. So
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: if I am in a chronic trauma posture shoulders forward,
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: chess caved in, belly out, pelvis tucked, my body is
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: assuming I'm in or my brain, i should say, is
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: assuming that I'm in danger because of my posture. But
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: has my brain being triggered into chronic danger? Did it
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: cause that posture in the first place? Yes, But staying
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: in that posture is feeding back to my brain that
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: the danger is still there. Yes, So it's a feedback loop. Right.
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: It's not just that the brain keeps score the body
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: keeps score. They both do, and they talk to each
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: other in this bi directional way.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: Who's talking first? It just depends, well, the brain.
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: The brain initially like the very first time I encountered
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: this traumatic situation. Of course my brain registered it first,
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: but then it spoke to my body. My body responded.
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: Then my body got stuck that way, and then it
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: feeds back to my brain saying the danger is still.
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: There, right, and then the neurons continue to fire, and
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: that's when.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: So there's like an afferent response, an epherent response, which is,
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: you know, the forward and backward response. So I think
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: by saying the brain keeps score and the body is
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: the scorecard is not completely correct because the scorecard tells
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: the brain still what the score is. It's keeping the score.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: It's bidirectional.
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: Who was the author of that book, The Body Keeps Score?
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: I read it, but it was years ago.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: Give me a second. Yeah, don't put me on the spot.
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: I know. I'm meant to look at it sits by
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: my bed, it sits right next to my bed. I'm
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: meant to look at it before I left, because I
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: knew that we were talking about trauma today. It's an
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: interesting book.
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: That's Van vander Kolch. Yes, yeah, he's a big trauma researcher.
• 28:42
  Speaker 2: He actually does a lot of trauma trainings with a
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: guy whose last name is Levin. I see him come
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: up on Facebook all the time about like how to
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: really heal your trauma, And it's just a lot of
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: somatic work and emotional resolution and a lot of like
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: the stuff that I teach. Yeah, but there are the goats,
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: you know. I don't know why I couldn't think of
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: his name. I'm like the German guy.
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the German because I've heard you say his name
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: so many times, because you were the one that told
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: me about that book all those years ago when we
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: first met.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: Yes, and so a lot of people just don't realize
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: that they've had a attachment trauma since like they came
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: out of the womb. And I just cringed the other
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: day at a client that was telling me just how
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: about how they let their babies cry it out. I'm
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: just like, oh, that's the baby's first experience with a
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: trust break. Yeah, nobody came for me. So I need
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: to shut down. They're not going to sleep because all
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: of a sudden, they're like, you know what, I probably
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: just go to sleep tired. They're shutting down into a
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: dorsal vagel freeze.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we've been lied to on them. Oh my gosh, man,
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: I regret it. If I could go back.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: I did it with Gabby.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: I did it with John Paul.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: And I knew better. And that's the thing, I knew better.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: I had no idea I knew better, and I was
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: still so traumatized, and so I had in something I've
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: never I don't even know if I've ever talked about,
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: but I was injured by cipro so badly when Gabby
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: was a baby and had that whole neurological breakdown, and
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: I wasn't in my right. I just wasn't okay. I
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: had no help for my husband, none. Gabby was premature,
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: she never slept, and I just got to the point
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: where I was like, well, hopefully she'll be okay. I
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: know this is not good for her, but I don't
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: know what else to do or I'm gonna have a
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: nervous breakdown.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: So it was that situation. And so I tried like
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: a modified version. I tried like a cry pick up
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: and then immediately put down. I tried it all. It
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: did none of it work.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I tried it all too And I mean,
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: I mean JP and I co slept forever. But I
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: think I was being persuaded to do something that I
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: didn't feel comfortable doing.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: I was too My ex pushed me, pushed me, pushed me,
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: pushed me, pushed me because he was so sick of
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: me waking him up and being like, can you help me?
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: So I think so many people go through trauma after
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: having a baby. They have traumatic birth. See sections are
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: a traumatic birth. It's unplanned. Sea sections isn't birth in general.
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: I mean it's not supposed to be, but a lot
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: of times it is because there's a complication. I don't
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: care what anybody says. Unplanned sea sections are traumatic. I
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: had two of them. And you're put on this table
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: told delay like Jesus on the cross. The table is
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: barely as big as your body. It's like so skinny,
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: so they can be really close to you. You're getting
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: a spinal block like a needle in your back as
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: they're rolling you in, and then you are just you
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: can feel you're numb, but you can feel all this
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: really weird inner tugging that is extremely uncomfortable. You don't
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: know if you're gonna be okay, if the baby's gonna
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: be okay. And then you're so massively sedated in this
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: weird way that you start shaking very so. And I
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: don't know if everybody does this, but I did slabor.
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: I shook like an at your body trying to release
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: some of the trauma. I shook and shook and shook,
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: and then just both of the spinal blocks made me
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: bomb it a whole bunch.
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: So yeah, the spinal blocks are not fine. I mean,
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: even with regular labor, you know, you get the epidural,
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: which is just as bad. I mean, it's terrible that
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: needles like this long.
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: So again, most people they're like, why I had an
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: unplants section. I didn't realize that was traumatic. But then
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: they don't understand the way that the trauma's affecting them today.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: Maybe they struggle a little bit with depression. They're chronically frozen.
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: Maybe they struggle a little bit with anxiety. You're in
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: fright or flight.
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: They have lots of physical ailments.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: You have lots of physical ailments. You have gut is shoes,
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: you have skin rashes, you have headaches, you have migraines,
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: you have chronic fatigue syndrome, you have listen it's all connected.
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: It's all connected, and you know, it's one of those
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: things where like we can't avoid trauma right altogether, It's
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: going to happen.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: I feel like life traumatizes everybody.
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: It does. It does.
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: But we were meant to live in such a different
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: way than we live. We were meant to live in
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: such supportive, connected communities, and we don't. We live in
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: digital communities.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: With very little like real raw.
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: Communication intimate support from others, And that is part of
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: what heals the nervous system. It's part of it. We
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: are meant to live in community, we are meant to
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: pair bond, We are meant to have supporting, loving spouses. Yes,
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: I healed before I met Donald, but Donald has healed.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: Me in so many ways, of course, yeah, so.
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: Many ways that I just couldn't have.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: My marriage continues to heal me anyways.
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: For sure. And so we're meant to be able to coregulate.
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: So community and intimate pair bonding is meant to soothe
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: our nervous system. Yes, we have to learn to process
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: our emotions and have nervous system resolution. We absolutely do.
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: And there's no really good books on that. By the way,
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: I did read I thought was horrible, But that's for
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: another topic another day. But we are meant to be
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: able to borrow other people's nervous systems sometimes, Like Donald
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: the other day, I was kind of stressed out just
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: because I had like the longest day ever approaching. I
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: literally had like five one to one clients and four groups,
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: and I was like, I have to work for twelve hours.
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: I don't know how I'm gonna do this. I'm not
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: gonna get to see my kids. And I knew I
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: was gonna have to dump everything on him. You're gonna
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: have to feed everybody. You're gonna have to make sure
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: everybody is where they need to be. So it was like,
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: there's a little bit of me going like, I know
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: it's gonna affect you too, and he was like, it's okay,
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: I got it. Just borrow my nervous system, and he
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: just hugged me, oh good and robbed me like a
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: little baby.
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I tell Josh all the time, will you rock
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: me like a baby? Yeah, because it truly does. It
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: feels so good, I know.
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: And you just let my heart beat sync up with yours.
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: Let me just sink my breathing to yours and let
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: my body just relax. Because sometimes when I face a
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: day like that, I almost get a little frozen. I do,
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: and I know, and I have tools. If he wasn't there,
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: I would have been able to come out of it
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: and activate and be able to I will land in
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: that chair for my first client on time. I will.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: But sometimes when you just look at that long day
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: ahead where I'm like, oh my gosh, that's a huge
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: emotional load. Not just not getting to move out of
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: the chair. That's hard. Sometimes I don't get to pee
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: when I really have to pay. It's insane, I know,
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: But it's what we're doing to do what we're doing.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: The studio wouldn't exist if I wasn't doing that right now.
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: So it's what it is. And that's not forever. It's
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: not going to be forever. It's just what it is,
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: and I accept it, and that's why I'm doing everything
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: I can to get this right in the final the
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: final build. The final build is going to be the
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: final build. It's what we're it's what we're doing. Sorry,
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: we're not changing the logo anymore after this, We're not
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: changing the website anywhere after this.
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: This is it.
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: This is it, This is it. But even think of
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: like a job loss as a trauma, absolutely, Oh my gosh.
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: There are people that come to my desk that are like, well,
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: I was laid off and having your financial stability ripped
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: from you.
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's traumatic very much. So it's traumatic. It's happened
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: to me.
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: And people I can always tell if they're in a
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: trauma state. Either they're in chronic anxiety, chronic overthinking, chronic
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: panic where they're numb, or they're emotionless, or they just
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: are like, I don't even care anymore. I don't care
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: if my partner divorced me. I don't even care.
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: I don't care.
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: Let them.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: That's kind of the worst one to me. Yeah, you
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: just completely stop caring.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: That was the end of the road. Ye Hopelessness is
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: the end of the road. It's at the top of
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: the free state. If you look at the poly Bagel
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: chart helplessness and hopelessness, hopelessness is at the top, at
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: the top. It's like, you can't get any worse than
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: being hopeless.
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: Yeap, how it was with YEA in my situation.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: But how can we how can we heal from our trauma? Well,
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: definitely you need true emotional processing, emotional resolution to really
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: start to heal the nervous system long term safe relationships
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: for sure, boundaries for sure, all of the external supports
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: like good nutrition, good sleep, exercise, exercise, really good metacognition,
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: and just in general body based healing. And there's so
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: much bs body based healing out there that just makes
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: me show my old because I'm just like that doesn't
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: do anything, and there's no good science behind it. It's
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: all new agy voodoo. Somebody just came up with it
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: because it sounded good stuff on social media. So that
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: stuff makes me mad. But bottom line is, you're not
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: weak because your nervous system adapted to a survival situation,
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: an impossible situation to navigate. And the goal is now
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: to teach your body that survival is no longer the
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: only option. The goal is to teach your body that
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: safety is available to you and that it is an option,
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: and learning to know how to choose it over and
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: over again.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: I think it's easier. The more you choose it does.
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: Get easier because again it's a feedback loop. It is
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: a feedback loop, so the more you do it, the
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: easier it becomes. But you can't just white knuckle through it.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: That's the mistake most people make that actually makes things worse.
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: You get a rebound, right, It's like the person who
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: chugs and chugs and chugs do work and then the
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: weekend they just can't get off their couch. You'll always
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: rebound when you're just trying to white knuckle through it.
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: You actually have to learn that you're safe enough to
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: slowly move through it, and then you get used to
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: moving through it at a good pace. So I think
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: bottom line is healing is not becoming less emotional. Healing
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: is about learning to move through your emotions appropriately and
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: learning to feel through them appropriately.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: And if you're looking for that type of safety, even
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: hearing you talk about it, and like, I just kind
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: of have this piece. You know, it feels good.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: It feels good.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: It does. It's the best feeling. It's it's the best feeling.
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: And when you've never known it, you don't know what
• 39:10
  Speaker 2: you're missing.
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it feels foreign even.
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: At first, it does, you know.
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: And I still struggle in that space of like I
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: have to just acknowledge it more. And I do acknowledge
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: it more than I once did before. I just plug
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: plug on through. Like you said, I would just white
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: knuckle it, but no, just.
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: Down to keep going. And like the one thing that
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: makes me cringe with people is when they're like, well,
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: I just I've just been trying to stay busy. I'm
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: like you do, don't do that. No, slow down, put
• 39:37
  Speaker 2: your hand on your heart, connect to your body, Breathe intermittently.
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: Patients like, stay connected to your body. Staying busy is
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: I don't feel safe enough to connect to my body,
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: So I'm staying busy so I don't have to connect
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: to my body because those sensations of emotion that I'm
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: suppressing are really scary.
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I could see where that would really come into
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: play with grief. Oh gosh, yeah specifically. Sure.
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, grief is just grief is the only emotion that
• 40:04
  Speaker 2: never fully resolves, you know that.
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: M Yeah, you told me that before. I found that
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: doesn't found that really fascinating because grief, you know, like
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: losing someone you love is so traumatic.
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: Because we can't conceptualize finality of death, Like we can't
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: conceptualize it. Yeah, I mean we can mentally, but our
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: bodies and our emotions can't. Our soul can't, our spirit
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: can't because that's infinite.
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: Mm hm.
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: Anyway, I think this is a good pennyway.
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: Yes, guys, if you're looking for the type of safety
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: the Doc has talked about today. You can always check
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: her out at the lovedoc dot com.
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: Soon to be Doctor Sarah Hensley dot com.
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: Yes, doctor spelled out. And like I mentioned before, if
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: you love this podcast, if you enjoy what we talk about,
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: please download it, download it.
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: Download it, download because did you know that downloads are
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: the only thing that counts.
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: It's the only thing that counts. And there's been you know,
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: Josh has been doing so much research on the back
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: end and like he has so many like he's learned
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: things that I don't even know about, like impressions and
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: downloads and like the differences between them. So anyway, that's
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: another conversation. But guys, we just appreciate every single one
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: of you that tune in every single week or just when.
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: You can tell your friends and like our social media pages.
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: Follow our social media pages on TikTok and Instagram, The
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: lond Doc Podcast soon to be The Doctor Sarah Hensley Show.
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: All handles will soon be changing, and we're going to
• 41:16
  Speaker 1: create a Facebook page too. We're just kind of waiting
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: until to create the Facebook page until everything is like final,
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: which you'll see the studio amazing.
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: It's going to be.
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: I don't even think think I know what to expect, Like,
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: I'm excited, and I've seen, like, you know, the stuff
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: that Sarah's picked out, and it's really not cute.
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: I have found the most bombed stuff on the marketplaces.
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: You've you've found some really cute stuff like the wallpaper
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: and stuff. And that's why I was just like, I
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: just I just wanted you to make all the decisions
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: because ultimately, like you have good taste, our taste is
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: very similar. You know, I can throw in little you know,
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: little aspects of and and it all works out.
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: And that way. We're just excited for you guys to see.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: Yes, we want you guys to come along with us,
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: so continue to please tune in, like, follow, download, and
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: until next time, peace, love and perspective