Latest / We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits / 510. 9 Nonprofit Trends That Matter in 2024: Our sector needs whole leaders. - Jon McCoy, Becky Endicott, and Sonya Perez-Lauterbach

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510. 9 Nonprofit Trends That Matter in 2024: Our sector needs whole leaders. - Jon McCoy, Becky Endicott, and Sonya Perez-Lauterbach · We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to the nine nonprofit trends that matter in 2024, sponsored by our good friends over at RKD Group.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: We love this value aligned partner that's helping nonprofits build long-term donor relationships through next generation tech, data and marketing strategies that are driving omnic channel experiences and donations.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: Learn more at rkdgroupcom.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: Hey, I'm John.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: And I'm Becky.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: And this is the we Are For Good podcast.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more and be more for the causes that improve our world.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: So welcome to the good community.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: We're nonprofit professionals, philanthropists, world changers and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: So let's get started, becky, what's happening?
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: I'm feeling like we just need to give our community a warm hug today, and it's going to start with talking about how we can become whole leaders, and so, if you're new to our podcast or maybe the series, we are knee deep into our nine nonprofit trends that matter in 2024 series, and today we're talking about trend that is really near and dear to our hearts because it's taking care of our lives.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: It's taking care of you so you can take care of those around you, and it's that our sector needs whole leaders.
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, this is something that we feel so passionate about.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: It's why we dedicate part of our year to talk about mental health specifically on the podcast.
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: But we just feel like you know, this sector is tackling some of the hardest issues on earth, and it's it's threaded into our day to day.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: It's the friends that we have, it's the frontline of communities that we're involved in are in, you know, dealing with really tough issues.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: And so when we neglect our personal needs for the sake of the greater good which is so easy to do being in nonprofit work we realize that it's making us less effective and it's not taking care of our greatest resource, you know, which is our ability to show up and to pour into these things and pour into our families and friends.
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: And so we want to give you a little bit of real talk and I tell you what we have brought in the guest of all guests to really speak to us in love, but also in truth, at the tail end of today's episode.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: But really, friends, to be a good leader, you have to be a whole leader, and we're not just talking to executive directors listening out there.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: All of us have leadership threaded into our lives.
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: If it's not necessarily.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: You're not maybe in the sweet sea sweet today, you may be tomorrow and you're probably in a sphere of influence, no matter what position you are in life or business somewhere.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: So it's just imperative that we lead ourselves first, and when we don't, we're not really leaders worth following to begin with, right?
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: So I want to quote one of our favorite thought leaders and just friends in the space that has incredible work about building thriving organizations.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: That's Veronica LaFamina.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: She says you can't sprint a marathon.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: If we were going to develop the stamina needed to truly transform, both as leaders and teams, then we have to train for the right race.
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: And, becky, you and I have trained for marathons before.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: It is no joke, it's hell.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, let's talk about it, but I mean, you have to build up to this.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: So I'm going to keep keep with Veronica here, and you can't do that until you properly healed the burnout and other injuries that come from overdoing it.
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: Hello, is this talking to anybody else right now?
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: I mean, this is why this work is so important, because we're probably starting at such a depleted place, so we have to keep that in mind that it's not going to be a quick fix overnight.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: We're going to have to start building, putting in the reps of taking care of ourself and prioritizing our self care to be able to show up for the work that's needed in front of us, and I'm going to like share something that's just a little bit personal.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: That's my fear, and I know it's my scarcity coming out, but something that I've been seeing in our community and across the sector is I mean, burnout is so apparent, but now we're starting to see people that are starting to go into autopilot and there's this apathy that's coming into it where we're just starting to become like automatons and we're just going through the motions and going through all of this work and we really want to hit pause on that.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: So let's talk about what are some key points that can help us be whole leaders.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: What kind of qualities are we looking to infuse into not just our work but into our daily habits and the way of being?
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: And the first one is that whole leaders really prioritize self reflection and well being.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: This involves just having this commitment to personal growth and self awareness, and I just think that leaders who understand themselves and continually work on themselves and their personal development there's just a lot of things that we can do they're just better equipped to lead others.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: And I think another one would be recognizing limiting behaviors and confronting them, and I think that whole leaders are typically very true to themselves, and this is going to take quite a bit of vulnerability because you have to have the integrity to name what's broken within you and you can think you've got to work alongside others to fix it.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: And I think we just have this pressure sometimes where we think we have to be perfect and we keep talking about that perfection trap and loop that we're all in and it's like we need to release that.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: We need to give ourselves the grace of failing forward, doing it in community and allowing others to show their vulnerability to want to live two others really quickly.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: I think whole leaders also also dream big and they adapt to their environments and I just think like they're hope dealers, you know, I think whole leaders really embrace the possibility and when I say they dream big, they aren't like pie in the sky dreamers.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: They have grit, which you know that's one of my favorite words, John they demonstrate resilience in the face of challenges.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: They model healthy coping mechanisms.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: They are somebody that you feel comfortable to like, have stress and psychological safety in and they create that space that's resilient and adaptable within their teams.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: And then the last point I think that's so great about a whole leader is they value, inspire and motivate their teams we talked about in our activation of the one and growing the movement.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: That joy is a vibe and I think leaders who are really pulling that joy up to the forefront, reminding us what we're fighting for, what we're dreaming for, that really shows that they care about not only just the mission but the well-being of their teams.
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: They want to create that positive work environment, they want to support employee development and they're always fostering a culture of inclusivity and collaboration.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: And hello guess what?
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: All that equates to dynamic cultures, healthy cultures.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: It leads to retention of actual employees.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: I could go on and on about the benefits that skin yield, but at the end of the day and I don't think this is selfish this is going to make you a healthier human.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: This is going to make you feel better about the work that you're doing, and I got to tell you we are working on this like and we are for good.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: Right now, If I'm going to be very vulnerable, it's like we all know that we have work to do in this area and it feels better if we can do it in lockstep as a group and as a community.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: I love it and you're so right B.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: I mean, we are always processing through this because y'all were sitting here having conversations on the podcast.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: That doesn't make us an expert just because we're sitting across people who are experts, right, and I think holding space, asking and getting curious about the topic is the safe place to start here, and so we've created a playlist and it's about 10 episodes deep.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: If you want to dive into this idea of whole leadership and living out kind of a more vibrant life through your leadership too.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: There's some episodes in here that just like completely stopped us in our tracks.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: I remember meeting Mia Henry and if you're not following me, like go check out her work, because she talks about empowering equity, how can we, as leaders, and platform justice.
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: how do we talk about the power dynamics and nonprofits?
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: Because all of that is leading to a more whole leader in how we show up where we're sharing power.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: And then I also want to lift Brooke Ritchie Babbage.
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: I mean she came into our Founder Series last.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: Oh, I love you, brooke.
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: She's so great.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: I love her too.
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: She came into our Founder Series last season and she talked about building and leading an organization that you love and, if you know Brooke, she's all about sustainability just in how she builds community and how she takes care of herself and how she talks about it.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: So there's a rich conversation there.
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: And then I'm also going to drop one more this Evolve leadership panel.
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: We invited Brooke back to talk about this alongside Ben Collier from FarmLink Project and Bowie Carpenter from Johns Hopkins and Rena Greifinger from Maverick Collective.
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, these are powerhouse leaders, but I tell you where that conversation went this is episode 444, was authenticity.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: You know how do we be authentic leaders, how do we collaborate better and how do we build community and how that's just a lifeline to us as leaders.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: So a lot of rich resources here that we'd love to invite you into and just really can't wait to get this playlist into your hands.
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: And you know, we can't just pull these things from our own mind, we can't just pull them from playlist.
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: We want a source from the community.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: What are you all thinking?
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: What are you feeling, what are you looking for?
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: And so we asked our community to name some attributes for whole leaders, and I just had to put them all in one space because I thought they were just so brilliant.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: And here's some of the ones that they dropped.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: Whole leaders have self-awareness and open mindset.
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: They have unshakable trust, they're authentic, present, balanced.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: They employ growth mindsets, they value emotional intelligence, they have joy, they're able to set boundaries, they are servant leaders, they show vulnerability, they're delegators and they are truly courageous in what they do.
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, that was such a good roll up.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: So I want to put some special things out to our community.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: Who added to this?
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: Natalie Riley, true Wallace, anne Thaxton, alba Austin, kaitlyn Bond, justin McCord, amina Mohammon, keltine Rivera, laura Petite, chelsea Baldwin and Morgan Robertson.
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: That was a lot of people, but I think it's really important to talk about the collective of voices and I want to thank each of you for that, because Kristen Byrae said remember y'all, we got to put our own oxygen mask on first, and I think that's really the key and we need to not feel selfish in that.
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: So let's talk about who's doing it.
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: Well, if you have not checked out the friends over at Plenty Jeff Shuck and Jennifer Mulholland- I feel like these are your whole leader guides that can help you get to not only just wholeness as a human being, but help you thrive.
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: We have several podcast episodes with them and we'll check that out, I think.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: The Margol Foundation.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: Do you remember Liz Ibar Conti coming?
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: in to our Founders Series.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, so fantastic.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: And they were absolutely reimagining how they grant over at the Margol Foundation to add support, adding mental health, sabbaticals and scholarships and therapy for teachers.
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: And then you already mentioned me, henry, but I got to throw her back up there again because she has an incredible organization called Freedom Lifted, and this is really about building a community that shares power.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: It's about going beyond diversity to connect your hearts, minds and actions.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: So if you're looking for three people who can help lead you through it, those are three organizations that I think are doing a beautiful job.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: Okay.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: So I hope we're not overwhelming you with pointing you to resources, but that you just feel filled with inspiration to surround yourself by.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: So we want to round out, before we bring in our expert for today's episode, into some pro tips.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: And here's some places to start.
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: And the first is just making space for reflection and creativity.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: I mean hustle culture and y'all being a startup here, as we are for good, running alongside our nonprofits that a lot of times are in hustle mode too, it can keep you very distracted from the things that remind you of your job, and so creating that space for reflection is where it's at, you know, getting reminded of why we're in this work in the first place and what we're really trying to accomplish.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: That's going to help bring creativity to Bay of like, how's a better way to do this?
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: How's a more sustainable way to do this?
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: And then, secondly, the pro tip is ask for help.
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: You know, find a trusted person who can encourage your growth.
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: Community is everything, is our value here, but it's also the way we want to show up in this world, and so if you're looking for people, definitely head to.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: We are for good.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: Community.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: Commets are free, mighty networks, community that you can find like minded people that have the same values, that are part of this community, that want to pour in and connect.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: And then the third is find inspiration.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: I hope we've given you a ton of that today that can come from other places besides podcasts to.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: I mean.
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: We find inspiration in art, in books, in nature literally.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: I love.
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: Nature is such a great guy.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: Sorry sorry, yes, but I think when you get out and you disconnect and you create space to breathe and to reflect, like that's where you know you can start to establish new rhythms and get reconnected to your purpose and all of this.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: And so I want to round out the pro tips from our community.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: Megan Whitney, who is a mindful coach at Feeding America, said one short free practice that she's a huge fan of and more folks from food banks are starting to do this too is take a minute to breathe at the beginning of team meetings.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: It's a game changer.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: So those are some places to start, as simple as just breathing, and we hope that you stick around, because we've brought in a really powerful guest that's going to take you in and talk to you so kindly, so gently, but give you some resources to really become that whole leader that you want to be today.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: Okay, y'all, it is your lucky day.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: We have not only a repeat guest on the podcast, but John, I think it would be safe to say this is one of our favorite humans on the planet that every time I talk to her, I think I need to send Tim Lockie and the community like a fruit basket for connecting us to Sonya Perez Latterbox.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: She is a brilliant leadership coach for the motivated change agent.
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: She is the founder of Atlas leadership.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: We adore her, and she is going to come in today and talk to us about how we can embrace this notion that our sector needs whole leaders.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: And so a little bit of background on Sonya she is a certified leadership and change management coach, and the thing that we love about her is she is just consistently providing these critical insights and supports not only to our clients, but to all of us.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: She's got such a good thought leadership.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: Please go follow her on LinkedIn, because it's really about empowering each of us to navigate change with more resilience, clarity and joy, and so I love that she is just coming alongside her clients.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: She's creating this new way of being and serving in the world that acknowledges injustice and pain and uncontrollable disruptions, and she's just helping us walk through it and by refusing to be consumed by unuseful ways that contribute to stress and fear.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: So if that makes you feel held, then welcome to what we feel every time we hang out with Sonya.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: Sonya, so glad you're back.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: Get into this house and teach us all your ways.
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: Oh, thank you so much for inviting me.
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: I feel really honored to be a part of this community and, yeah, when we show up in our whole self like magic happens, and I think that's what I felt when I met you guys, when you celebrated me entering into that Zoom room the first time I met you, like no, felt totally whole Before I even you know.
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: It wasn't about my bio or all of the accomplishments, it was just human to human connection.
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: I think that lays the groundwork for what it feels like to be a whole leader and that's what I felt in this community.
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: So thank you for having me, Thank you for creating this platform to share these new ideas.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: Oh, man, it's totally our honor and I just I think all of us can say that when we feel what you just said, in our work, in our space, we just bring a different sort of energy, creativity and just all of ourselves to that.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: So this is just one of the most important trends that we wanted to dive into this year, because we really feel like the sector needs to elevate in leadership, to create whole leaders and, honestly, we think our world needs whole leaders.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: So talk to us about your thoughts around this trend.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: What does being a whole leader look like today to you, and how does it differ from the leadership we've seen in the past in our sector?
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, I first want to start, for those listening in who are feeling fragmented and frazzled and exhausted, that there is no shame in that.
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: That is kind of become the norm, and so I want people to feel held in this conversation and leave with some energy that things can be different.
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: You know, there I think we all feel that that tension in that poll, and so I think elevating this idea of being our whole self and honoring that in our work can be a really powerful tool to create change in the world.
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: So I think it takes intentionality.
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: The first thing I want to say is that the very cool part about this trend is that we don't have to get permission from other people.
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: We don't have to get our board approval oh, that's so nice.
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: We don't have to get funders for it.
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: This is an area in our life where we can take total responsibility for the way that we're caring for our mental capacity, how we're caring and processing emotions in our body and honoring what we need in our body.
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: I think that sometimes we get so tied into the work and the challenge and the problems that we forget that this is actually an area that we have control over and to take some agency in investing in the way that we show up as leaders.
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: That can be really empowering, especially when there's a lot of things in the world that we don't have control over.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: I love how you tone set this, love how you always walk into the room.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: I feel really seen and supported and I'll say, you know, becky and I get to meet a lot of different people in this role with we Are Forgetten our community and the topic of burnout honestly comes up every week not multiple times a day, maybe it's not every day.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like it's hard.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: And so I think when we talk about burnout, to me this really overlaps really well, because it's really hard to show up as a whole leader to really make an impact, a sustainable difference, from a place of burnout.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: I was wondering if you could talk about just some strategies for sustainability, because you know, connecting the trends, like we believe that retention is an inside job, like we need to pour into retaining our staff and keeping them well so our missions can thrive this year.
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: So I want to kick it to you to kind of respond to that.
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, burnout.
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: There's a lot there.
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: I think that one of the things that we can do is to invest and make sure that we have places in our life where we can just be, where we're not performing, we're not producing, and so whether that's blocking some time in your morning or creating some space for that in your life is just incredibly necessary, because there is such an inflow of information and expectation that it is too much for our brains to process.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: It is too much Everything about.
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: Right now.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: I keep telling my husband the phrase is too much, everything is too much and there's overwhelm.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: And I just thank you for lifting that and keep going, because I think naming it is really important and saying I'm overwhelmed which I am saying it right now in my lifetime.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: I am overwhelmed, but like there are ways to walk through this and I think that what you're saying is so important, so please keep going.
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: So I think so my coaching approach is three different levels that I like to look at.
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: It's like the mental, like what are the thoughts that we're thinking and how are we perceiving the situation?
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: And if we're not taking time to even like evaluate that and everything is urgent in our life, then our brain chemistry is going to like continue to pump the cortisol, pump the stress hormones, when maybe some of those things aren't urgent, maybe it's not an emergency room and we can triage the things that we need to take care of right, like what is most important here, and just taking a minute, like even 60 seconds, to bring our nervous system down.
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: I do this practice of breathing, so like focusing on your breath and if your brain is spinning and the overwhelm is going so much, you can simply just use your hand and inhale up a finger and downhill another finger, inhale and go through your five fingers, because sometimes, like, you can't even get to count the count of five right if you've got so many things that you feel like you have to respond to right now.
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: So, like bringing your nervous system down and then you can say, like what is an emergency?
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: Or if none of this is emergency, that improves our mental clarity to then decide what is the most important thing that I need to do today or right now, right and so, just learning that practice of managing our mental clarity through our nervous system, our embodied response, so that we can be most effective in the things that are important.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: I've been thinking a lot about this just in my own life, because what I have a habit of doing is that I'll create maybe space, but then I fill it with it's time to catch up on the news and social feeds and like reply to texts and reply to emails, and it's like there's very few actually like stillness moments that you're actually Not doing anything.
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: You know in the day in modern society if you're not careful, and so I really appreciate you lifting that and I'm over here like tracing my hand.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: That's a smart.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: I've never heard that that is literally like a mindfulness practice that I'm seeing my children go through in school and I have to tell you like seeing more social, emotional learning in schools With kids is such a brilliant concept.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: I encourage anyone who's thinking about that to go check out the Dawson school In Colorado.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: They're doing some really cool things, starting in kindergarten with kids.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: But I want to give like a practical example of something that happened to me two weeks ago.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: I was literally meeting with Evan Wildstein in our community and just catching up and talking about things and we're sharing about life.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: He makes me stop, stand up and teaches me a breathing technique and does it with me and all of a sudden, 30 seconds worth of that.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: I'm grounded again and I don't think we give ourself permission enough to stop in this pressure cooker of a sort of environment that we're all facing right now, and I really appreciate that pause and so so I'm wondering if you have maybe some guiding questions that listeners could use and could ask themselves, as they're kind of reflecting on where they're at personally right now, to help us get through this next phase, to get toward healing and toward that whole leader Moment that we're trying to get everybody to embrace.
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think what you're saying about emotional education.
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: There is so much research around emotions and embodied responses that can really help us.
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: Some of those questions is like what am I feeling right now?
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: Like what's the emotion under the emotion, right?
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: And just taking that pause to find out what it is that we're feeling.
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: And there's a saying like when you resist it, it persists.
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: So if you're feeling frustrated or angry about something and you are like nope, got to be positive.
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: This is, you know, the way that, like I'm going to do my affirmations, like if you're not actually honoring the emotions that are going through your body and like seeing them, processing them, then it's going to be really hard to move forward.
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: And that's where that's going to cause some of that segmentation of like who we are.
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: We feel like I'm angry or I'm sad about this thing in my life and I don't, I'm going to ignore it, and then it comes out elsewhere and so asking yourself, like what's really going on?
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: And expanding our emotional capacity to hold those things and to hold two things Like I can be really processing grief in one area of my life and also have joy about the successes in the other areas.
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: Like allowing that to be really helps us bring that integration to show up whole and full and then you can even create that space for your team.
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: But if you don't practice it yourself first and kind of get uncomfortable and be willing to see that it's really hard to allow that in your team.
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: Right, if you're not willing to be with some of the discomfort of your own healing, then it's like yeah, like inside of you it's like nope, I can't see that pain elsewhere and like that's where kind of the defensiveness or the you know, breakdown of communication can happen within teams and so it really can start with you.
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: Like, if you're willing to do that internal work, it creates the safety for that to happen within an organization.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think you're really talking about just this growth of resilience too.
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: I think, as you learn how to navigate this and I think at the beginning of the year I feel like this come up a couple of times already on the podcast that I'm like this year is going to be chaotic.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: At some point it's like things are going to change.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: It's weird that I felt that, too, not to be negative yeah.
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: Right, but to be prepared.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: But I just think it's like we're just acknowledging that things are going to change.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: We're in a constant state of change, Like that's life.
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: How do you work with clients and hello us right now, you know, to like prepare ourselves, to build the resilience, to keep the clarity and one of the words we really want to lift this year how do you find the joy, you know, in the journey of that, knowing that things are probably not going to turn out exactly how we had planned?
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I think that, like that, first creating margin for your mind to rest and for not everything to be a problem and just to allow some of that more from that state of like rest and digest.
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: When our nervous system is calm, when we're out in nature, like some of these, that's where the creative problem solving can take place.
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: And so, as you go through change, I think the big thing that is helpful is acknowledging that we don't have to have it all figured out.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: Thank you Really.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: Spoiler?
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: We don't, it's okay.
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: So when we, when we're comfortable with the fact that we don't have it all figured out or we don't have all the answers, then we can even be on the lookout.
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: For what are you saying?
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: Like, oh, there's so many different perspectives out there.
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: When you realize like, oh, I have a unique perspective from my upbringing, from the people I've connected with, let me listen and see what else is out there, it creates more curiosity in those times of change of like, maybe something new can emerge in this place that when your nervous system is like hyped up and anxious and worried about what's going to happen, then we can't be leading like a new direction of possibilities that will emerge from new conversations, from like a collective wisdom.
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: And you guys are so great talking about the community, but like that's where I think we're going to get a community lift and community change.
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: When we're in a state of curiosity, rather than I'm supposed to have this figured out, I'm the leader, I need to have answers.
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: I think that's an old model that isn't going to serve us in the future of thinking that, as a leader, I have to have the answers.
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: Like the answers are probably within your clients, they're probably within your new hires your young people, like if we can have the curiosity and the humility to say, like I don't have it figured out.
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: That's where those awesome conversations and new possibilities can emerge.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: Okay, I got a riff on that because I think and this is just me being vulnerable when I was in the sector for 20 years, the whole time, from the point I was 22 to the time we left from we are for good I always felt like I needed to have the answers because I was a leader almost all of that time.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: The pressure of that does something to you socially, emotionally.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: I want to shift everyone's thinking on that and saying not having the answers, being vulnerable, embracing that we are all broken, fragile, beautiful people, is actually a superpower, because it's the connective tissue that we all share, because we've all embraced hardship and harm and grief and trauma.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: In some ways.
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: I heard I was listening to Maria Bryan's new podcast the other day, which is fabulous.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: I highly recommend it, called when Bearing Witness.
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: She says there's a new study out that says everyone who's gone through COVID has now been through trauma.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: All of us have been through trauma.
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: I go back to Ted Lasso, because you're talking about curiosity.
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: I think that is honestly one of the greatest attributes of a whole leader, ted Lasso.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: God love Jason Sudakis.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: He lists this quote and he says I want to be curious, not judgmental.
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: Walt Whitman tells us.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: I love this quote that people ask more questions or are more curious and forgiving because they're more enlightened and they're more compassionate.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: This is a way to not just grow your leadership abilities, this is a way to grow you as a human being.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: We had Kishana Palmer on a couple of weeks ago, episode 501, if you have not listened to that and you are trying to embrace what does this whole leader concept look like?
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: I encourage you to go back there.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: She shared on our show this season that if you want to talk about culture retention, get clear on how you actually want your team members to show up to work, how you understand what motivates them in this season of their life and what they're going through.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: The parachute and the exhale of that is there is no wrong answer.
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: What you're willing to put on the line to ensure that they are healthy is such a powerful thing.
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: I would love to hear your thoughts about how we can support many different team members in their seasons of life, no matter what they're going through, and how do we show up in that way, my friend?
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I love that.
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: The first thing that comes to mind is clarity is kind.
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: I just keep coming back to that with my clients as they work through either feedback conversations.
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: We have these expectations that aren't working anymore.
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: We have these hidden expectations and being more clear with what those are.
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: And sometimes I just work with my clients and like what are these expectations and where are they coming, that we put on ourselves?
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: And so taking the time to get some clarity around your personal expectations and then are they valid, are they useful?
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: Right, because if we don't have clarity around that, then we can't ask other people.
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: We can invite other people into that if we aren't sure where these expectations are coming from.
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: And so creating that clarity within ourselves of what's expected, and I think that what creates that quality of curiosity is that self compassion, like the quality of not being non judgmental is like can we be non judgmental with ourselves?
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: Like when we embody that for ourselves and it's work that I do as well.
• 32:31
  Speaker 3: But when I can say I am going to give myself grace today because I'm human and believe that and that I, like I know that that's work, then I can confidently give that to my team members as well.
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: But it's hard if you don't have it for yourself first.
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: Then you end up just taking on their, their problems and their issues.
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: You're like, oh so, and so is having a difficult time.
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: So I'm going to give them PTO or like time off, but then I'm going to take on their work.
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: Right, I see a lot of really good hearted Leaders that are trying to create that space for their team and create healthy environments, but then they just take on all of their work themselves without saying, ok, well, here's what is expected.
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: How do we as a team get this done?
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: And so it is that self compassion for ourselves and being clear with your team of what's needed, what's priority, and working together.
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that vulnerability, like you go first as a leader, and it's scary and that's what.
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: And yet it can also be totally joy filled.
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: I had a client just yesterday.
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: He's like I had those difficult conversations.
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: He'd been avoiding some conversations and he's like and it was just so good, I feel so light having had those.
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: Like having those conversations around expectations and fears and like possibility, like I feel so much better.
• 33:55
  Speaker 3: And before that it was just this like dread of like I don't know what they're going to say, I don't know how it's going to go Like.
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: Having that courage to have the clarity conversations really can empower your team.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: So good because I feel like there's so many people listening that this is.
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: There's a lot applicable to us personally.
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: But those of us that are part of leadership team that are really trying to shape and build a culture and, like, create a safe place for this to happen.
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: Let's talk about some of the hallmarks.
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: I mean, you already let us into this conversation about the expectation piece.
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: What other, what other pieces allow for a culture to save me and people can really show up as whole leaders here?
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: Like, how can we build those into our teams?
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: One of the things that I saw is appreciation of really appreciating your people, and people want to be seen for the work that they do.
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: People do want to do good work and when they're not appreciated, then there's a there's a disconnect, a shutdown.
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: I think that being an organization that's willing to be creative around sabbaticals, pay Like, it's one thing.
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: To say I appreciate you, it's another thing to like increase their pay.
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: You know, make that a pretty tangible.
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: I think is really important and really needs to be addressed in this sector, because when you're not feel like we're valued, it's really hard to give our best.
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: I love that one.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: I heard another one from Ila Malik had this really incredible post just about this whole concept of Quiet, committing, and it's this emerging phenomenon of employees that are just kind of disengaging, you know, on the job, and the ways to get around this are these whole leader concept.
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: I love this concept Of gratitude and being in tune.
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: She threw another one out that I wanted to share with everybody that says choose connection over perfection, and I think that if you can really find ways to understand you talked at the beginning thank you so much for grounding us and listening.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: You know, I think we're so good at listening to our donors.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: I think we're so good at listening to our social media followers and things, but sometimes I think we forget to listen and build this culture of inside listening and I think whole leaders are listening beyond the I'm fine, we know, you're not fine, you know, and if, if you can model that vulnerability as a leader, I think that is an incredible hallmark and being the first one to say this is how we show up and we show up as our authentic selves and we support each other so brilliant, so yeah.
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I really love it.
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: You said like connection over perfection.
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: I think there's even like this drive of like okay, I'm going to be a whole leader and I'm going to have a super healthy team, like this idea of like the finish line, that there's a finish line, that there is like I'm going to get my workplace in the hallmark, right, like they're like I'm going to get the Emmy for the best place, right, but let's also say it's evolving Right.
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: Like as a recovering perfectionist, it's like, okay, how do I get there?
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: Right, but maybe it is today.
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna make sure I have time to listen to someone, like you said.
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: And it's not about perfection, it's about All of us coming together saying, like what do we want our organization to be?
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: Like how can we Be more inclusive?
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: And having those conversations and having that space like how do we build trust in our organization?
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: You know, it's one thing to I've worked with one organization that has like really high EQ.
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: They're very like create the space for conversation and yet there's so much, so much understanding but there's not the commitment to Do deliverables and so that there's a breakdown of trust, right.
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: And so it's like, yes, we're here for each other, but I know you're so busy and this can happen.
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: I see this within nonprofits of like I know everybody's so busy and so we're just gonna be really relaxed with each other, but then we break down the trust of that we can get things done.
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: And so I think that's the flip side of like how do we, yes, create connection, support each other as humans and and build that trust so that, hey, when this thing is assigned to someone, that we can trust that it's gonna get done, and that we also have those conversations of like, hey, there's too much on my plate, rather than I'll take all this and I know you're busy, so I'll take it, and then it not happen, and so then there's that breakdown.
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: So I think it's like it is a both and and it's evolving.
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: How do we build that trust that we can get things done and move the mission forward and Care about each other as humans?
• 38:48
  Speaker 3: Those don't have to be mutually exclusive.
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: Is Sonia in your head as much as she's in our heads right now?
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, like a hundred percent and if you're someone who's struggling with letting go of that perfection as a recovering type A, I work through that a lot.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: We had a great episode with.
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: It was the world's foremost Expert on perfection.
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: Do you remember that from mental health week with Dr Thomas Dr Curran.
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so check out 475, episode 475.
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: We'll link it up in the show notes because that's a really good primer for why we need to be okay with not just Achieving all the time, because it's just not good for our body and soul.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: So, sonia, you've been on the podcast before.
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: You know we wrap up all of our episodes with a one good thing, and I'm hoping you can connect the one good thing to this concept.
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: How can we go out as whole leaders and leave us with something that we can take today within ourselves?
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the one good thing is that change is possible.
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: Like if you're feeling depleted right now, that does not have to be your future, and I've seen it time and time again that we can build in nurturing habits.
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: We can change the way that our brain fires to from scarcity to abundance, and it's just so much fun to see this transformation, and I want to invite people to get a coach.
• 40:17
  Speaker 3: This is the work.
• 40:18
  Speaker 3: It is work.
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: Find a coach that you connect with.
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: I do free discovery calls, but this is something that you can invest in and when you do, it just creates ripple effects in your community.
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: So I just want to invite people to take action on their own Internal development, because it does make a huge impact in the world.
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd love for you to just like connect the ways for people to connect with you.
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, because people listening like how can they be in your coaching programs?
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: Where do you show up online all the things?
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, like you mentioned, I'm on LinkedIn, instagram and my website is sonia Perez Com.
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: And yeah, I mentioned these discovery calls.
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: They are for people who are curious.
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: I think that not enough people in the social sector have been exposed to the power of coaching.
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: Like Most executives of big companies, they have coaches that are helping them be whole leaders, because there's so much to juggle and I just want more of our people to get this kind of support, and so there's a link on my website and which is have a fun conversation, find ways that Habits that can be supportive in you showing up like you want to, not just for your organization, but for your life.
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: We're rooting for you, friends.
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: I mean, we want the healthiest version of you in this work.
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: So that's so, yeah.
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: Thanks for coming in, giving us that warm mom hug, making us feel Like it's okay to be us and that we can do this.
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: So please go check out Sonya's website and y'all let's just, let's just embrace this new concept of Vulnerability growing and not just our professional careers, but growing in our lives.
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: Sonya, you are amazing.
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for coming in.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: Thanks for having me.
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: Thanks so much for being here.
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: Friends, and you probably hear it in our voices, but we love connecting you with the most innovative people to help you achieve more for your mission than ever before.
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: We'd love for you to come join our good community.
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: It's free and you can think of it as the after party to each podcast episode.
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: Sign up today at we are for good Dot-com.
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: Backslash hello and one more thing if you love what you heard today, would you mind leaving us a podcast rating interview?
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: It means the world to us and your support helps more people find this community.
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: Thanks so much, friends.
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: Can't wait to our next conversation.